“‘Let’s Dive In’ to damage control” is not what Gateway had in mind for this conference.

Perhaps Gateway can substitute Bickle and Hybels for Tate and Evans so the conference can proceed? No, wait a minute, that wouldn’t work.

Max: To be a successful preacher in that world, all you need is a touch of charisma, a gift of gab, and a bag of gimmicks. A working knowledge of the Bible helps, but is not necessary.

Sadly true amongst all types of church organizations and denominations. People seek popular speakers…

Jes: People seek popular speakers…

= personality cults, not Christianity as it’s meant to be

“Evans will also need to be replaced as he has recently stepped down from his role of senior pastor because of unspecified disqualifying sins and is taking part in a restoration process.”

This word “restoration” needs to be scrubbed from the lexicon of churches that honor Jesus. There is no restoration for these men. Repentance? Yes. Fellowship? Yes/maybe. Prison? As needed. Get a regular job (if they legally can)? Yes.

Restoration? NO.

Restoration: “A bringing back to a former position or condition.”

Chris Webster: Restoration? NO.

Child abuse should be a permanent disqualifier from ministry. The Shady Grove elders did the wrong thing to “restore” Morris … the Gateway elders did the wrong thing to accept that restoration (this was a crime!). Forgive the truly repentant? Certainly! Restore them to the pulpit? Absolutely not!! There are other places to serve the Lord than in the pulpit – he forfeited that sacred office years ago, IMO.

Chris Webster: This word “restoration” needs to be scrubbed from the lexicon of churches that honor Jesus. There

Maybe this is already true, and in place.

Cynthia W.: but it’s crazy rich now.

Where a pedophile preacher amasses $117M for himself.

Muff Potter,

And tax-free to boot.

Wade Burleson has posted today about this: “ My friend, Cindy Clemishire, has accused Robert Morris of sexually predatory behavior against her, beginning at the age of twelve, predatory behavior that continued for nearly five years until Cindy was 17.”. More in the article.
https://wadeburleson.substack.com/p/stained-hearts-glass-windows?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=1214364&post_id=145695022&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=2ubj4&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

Anon: invested 30 million into a series called “House of David”

David is their guy. Millions galore of parishioner tithes for chollywood filming to stage the scandalous king in all his glory, produced by a scandalous clergyman.

Hollywood film production, leaving no scandal to the imagination.

Their church association built a “restoration” retreat vacay lodge for scandalous pastors quick fix to get them back in the pulpit. Will this retreat center for men evolve into the Playboy mansion for the clergymen crowd?

This group likes money, celebrity, Hollywood, and scandals involving women and girls, occasionally boys and young men. Seems fitting this would turn out to be their Playboy mansion. A retreat for pastors to get their fix before going back to the boredom of wife, kids, job, and supporting community. Yawn.

Maybe an annual or biannual retreat would be appropriate for men to be able to not fall off the wagon by going after churchkids in their parish back home. A Bohemian Grove for church leaders.

Anon: I have received info about Gateway. They have invested 30 million into a series called “House of David”.

Thanks for the tip. I have been looking into it. The article linked to below was published on June 12th.

https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/house-of-david-amazon-biblical-drama-cast-goliath-saul-1236034318/

“Production on “House of David” is currently underway in Greece.”
(This would give credence to your statement that Morris is currently in Greece.)

“The series is based on an idea by director Jon Erwin, who executive produces alongside Jonathan Walker, Jon Gunn, Justin Rosenblatt, Chad Oakes and Mike Frislev. Rosenblatt serves as the executive in charge of production on behalf of the Wonder Project, for which “The Chosen” creator Dallas Jenkins is a large shareholder and special advisor.

In association with the Wonder Project and Amazon MGM Studios, “House of David” is produced by Nomadic Pictures and Argonauts along with Kingdom Story Company and Lionsgate Television.”

Do you know if any of the individuals named above attend Gateway? Also, do you know who the $30 million invested by Gateway went to? I would guess either Kingdom Story Company or Lionsgate Television.

The tithing units of Gateway church should definitely have been advised of this use of their money.

Any help you can give me would be appreciated. Thanks.

“If a “minister” abuses a child, institutional religious leaders should remove him.” (Wade Burlison)

https://wadeburleson.substack.com/p/stained-hearts-glass-windows?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=1214364&post_id=145695022&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=2ubj4&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

There should be no ifs, ands, or buts about it! There should be no reservations, restrictions, or excuses … no restoration process … no more pulpit … PERIOD! Sexual abuse of a child should be a permanent disqualifier from ministry. Those who attempt to restore such a person to ministry should also be permanently disqualified from ever being an elder/deacon. Indeed, Scripture warns church leaders who restore bad actors to Christian ministry:

“Do not hurry to lay hands on anyone ordaining and approving someone for ministry or an office in the church, or in reinstating expelled offenders, and thereby share in the sins of others; keep yourself free from sin.” (1 Timothy 5:22)

God takes these things seriously. So should we.

Jes: From reading the sexual assault and molestation laws definitions it seems the wording may be calculated to avoid admission to a crime with no statute of limitations.

i.e. This was all written by his Attorneys.

Max: = personality cults, not Christianity as it’s meant to be

And as we’re seeing with Calvary Chapel Woodlands, personality cults rarely survive their founder/cult leader.

That’s also why Communism demonstrated more staying power than Naziism, and the Unarians more staying power than other flying saucer cults — both had philosophical underpinnings beyond the founding personality.

Muslin fka Dee Holmes:
Looks like Morris had every weekend between now and the second week in August booked up. I doubt he was going on vacation all that time. I’m sure he had himself booked in to preach about “The Blessed Life” (aka “make money ran out of the giving units’ wallets on the church”).

Oh, and I notice that the speaker for the first week of August is Chris Hodges. You know Chris, the head of the ARC and pastor of COTH, the ARC mothership in Birmingham. Oh, yeah, and ARC is about to open a restoration facility for pastors, you know, kind of like Robert Morris.

Let’s keep an eye on this.

Morris never preaches during the summer. That’s been his MO for years now; he takes some family vacations, but he also goes on the speaking circuit.

Last year, he didn’t do as much speaking, as he had three major surgeries, including open heart surgery. (He has a history of major surgeries, most notably in 2018 when he was near death the week after Easter.)

Max,

Absolutely agree- a person can be forgiven, but should not be restored to his position

If truly repentant & humbled, that person should not try to put himself in that same/leadership position.

A local NC pastor, when asked about a Family Ministry Deacon’s history of indecent liberties with a child conviction at the church we attended at that time said “God has forgiven him. How can we do any less?” Those in charge went along with that mindset, especially since it came from the Pastor.

Then later, when at that same church, a staff member’s son allegedly raped a barely 13-year-old girl at the church and leadership knew we had heard of it two years later, we were the ones that were ostracized and evicted from the church.

The question we were asked repeatedly was “Didn’t God want us to follow the leadership of the church”?
My husband‘s response was “when a young girl is raped at the church and the leadership does nothing about it, I don’t believe he’d want me to follow that kind of leadership”.

When we first learned of it, we said “if it’s true, some parents and kids need help-if it’s not true some parents and kids need help”.

The parents had spoken with the leadership of the church concerning this incident and were assured that they would do something about it. The young family later went onto another church and did not want to follow it up with anymore of the local authorities. The girl and her grandmother had gone to the local serve social services office where her story was told and was repeatedly the same. No follow up action was taken.

How much of this goes on behind-the-scenes?

Debby: How much of this goes on behind-the-scenes?

“Son of man, do you see what the elders … do in the dark (behind the scenes) … For they say, ‘The Lord does not see us'” (Ezekiel 8)

Yes, elder, He sees you … yes, pastor, He sees you. “What is done in the dark will come to light” (Luke 12). You will reap what you sow, more than you sow, later than you sow.

Max: submit yourself to illegitimate authority

Morris seemed legitimate.

Jes: Max: submit yourself to illegitimate authority

Morris seemed legitimate.

They all do. The problem with deception is that you don’t know you are deceived because you are deceived.

Max: They all do.The problem with deception is that you don’t know you are deceived because you are deceived.

But they always say “I Am Not Deceived”.

“If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.”
— some Rabbi from Nazareth

To use this particular quote seems deceiving. He also had an extramarital relationship, divorced a wife and married someone he once “counseled” without taking ownership for what really happened.

Bene D: he highlighted a statement by Bob Hamp, who set up the Freedom Ministry at Gateway Church and worked there from 2005-2014.

He has a lot to say, and as Cindy continues to speak out, I encourage all of the sons and daughters of Stan to read it.

“…The labels common in church culture (inappropriate relationship, and “moral failure”) both minimize what is really happening and deceive every other person about what has really happened. People hear these phrases as descriptive of mutual relationships and so respond as if the abuse was actually a mutual relationship. Two people are blamed for one person’s sickness.

A G: Robert Morris’s account of “inappropriate sexual behavior” is just the tip of the iceberg. In 2012, while Bob Hamp and Alan Smith were on staff as pastors at Gateway it was discovered that they both had been involved in extra marital sexual relationships with several women they were in counseling/pastoral roles thru ministry classes called Kairos and Freedom Ministry. The church did not report the incidents or file any charges even though it is considered sexual assault under Texas penal code. Instead, they were quietly terminated 15 months later. Bob Hamp divorced his wife Jackee Hamp, married one of the women who had attended his Kairos classes and opened a counseling office in Grapevine, Texas. Alan Smith started a new church, Catch the Fire and later was found to be having a sexual relationship with someone at his new church. He was again quietly released from ministry, divorced his wife Nancy Routzon Smith he is now a realtor in Burleson, Texas

Wait. The same Bob Hamp?

Off-topic alerts:

#1: Pressler dead at 94
#2: Dr. Ben Carson is to be a speaker at Gateway, and I really wish he had remained in the field of pediatric neurosurgery. A surgeon friend of mine has first-hand knowledge that Dr. Carson is brilliant in that field. Politics, history, archaelogy, not so much. I think he gets all that from Facebook. And Housing and Urban Development? Really?

Sorry, Dee. Burnt out on sex scandals. A friend of mine just got a divorce from one of those, and we’re hoping to turn a page on that one at least. Until the guy is out of prison.

Ted: Pressler dead at 94

and the SBC kingdom is silent

Max,

My thoughts also… I could go on and on, but “their” silence say it all to me..

Jeffrey J Chalmers: “their” silence say it all to me

“Pressler who?”

Max: Child sexual abuse is not inappropriate behavior or moral failure … it’s a crime in all 50 states.

lol! watch out for the double negative ;^)

( “is not inappropriate” = ” is appropriate “. )

I think you mean ‘not just’ or ‘not only’ inappropriate …
🙂

A G: The church did not report the incidents or file any charges even though it is considered sexual assault under Texas penal code. Instead, they were quietly terminated 15 months later.

The prosecutor has to press charges and that requires a victim willing to testify.

recently a female professor instigated a sexual relationship with our friends son.

They were ready to go with the charges against her, but the young man backed out.
No willing witness, no charges.

And, are you saying that these affairs were known and tolerated by gateway church staff for 15 months?

Because I know the guy who would have ultimately dealt directly with this and theres no way in Hades he would have sat on it for five minutes.

Max: when MacDonald fell, Harvest Bible Chapel became a mere shadow of its former self, etc. etc. etc.

Last we heard, MacDonald was prospecting some mighty rich diggins’ on Coronado Isle (San Diego).

BZ,

I find nothing “lol” about any of this

A G,

Ava Aaronson: 2. Why is his today-wife fawning over him in his website photos?
The way Mr Hamp tells it: ‘After I transitioned back into practice, an old friend of mine attended one of our training events. It didn’t take us long to discover we had both been through painful divorces since the last time we saw each other. We reconnected in a whole new way as we began to date and Polly began to be an active part of our counseling center.’
I’m not doubting AG’s assertions about the reasons for the transition and painful divorce— but sources would be nice here. “It was discovered” by whom?
If Julie were able to verify these assertions, she might take down the article.

Max: Muff Potter: Last we heard, MacDonald was prospecting some mighty rich diggins’ on Coronado Isle (San Diego).

Is that where Pastor James was arrested for allegedly assaulting a lady in a parking lot?

You mean the Godly Road Rage incident where ManaGAWD came out roaring after a parking fender-bender (leaving behind his 9mm Emotional Support Companion) and beat the crap out of the other driver while forgetting to set his parking brake and ManaGAWD’s jacked luxury truck rolled away on its own until it hit yet another car?

i.e. THIS ManaGAWD?
https://wonderingeagle.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/screenshot_20230121-164207_facebook.jpg

Headless Unicorn Guy: i.e. THIS ManaGAWD?

ManaGAWD?
Looks more like a biker waiting for an antibiotic prescription for the clap.

Dave A A,

Yep, need receipts or “A G” was directly involved.

Todd Wilhelm,

I have heard that Dallas Jenkins is on staff at Gateway as a Creative Director.

Grateful to see that Pastor Tate is not allowed to preach at this gathering…as a former member of Fellowship Monrovia and a viewer of the Town Hall where the “Board” was supposed to address the issues/allegations…it was a complete joke and the only thing more apparent than Mr. Tate’s ignorance is his arrogance…the whole thing was a sham ans he’s back in the pulpit moving on…it has been 7 months since he was put on “leave” yet was back in the pulpit less than 3 months later…a sucker is born every minute and sadly there are plenty of people who want a “show” on Sunday mornings…not hearing the Word Of God….smh…

Jean Cloke,

Welcome to 2024 Jean. Normal people protect children, won’t tolerate deceptive church leadership, and don’t believe criminals should be pastors. Were all these things acceptable 35 years ago? If this was no big deal, why do you figure they concealed it?

Max: An odd addition to the slate of speakers, but this whole saga has been odd and depressing.Such an awful hit on the church at large.I hope Dr. Carson cancels his engagement there, considering the change in the atmosphere at Gateway.

He spoke at Prestonwood not too long ago. His “sermon” quoted ZERO Scripture (very odd for anyone in the Prestonwood pulpit to do – disagree with them if you must, but usually their speakers will quote numerous Bible verses) and sounded more political than religious (he was promoting his latest book).

He will probably keep his engagement – “in support of the congregation” – as part of his book promotion tour.

Ava Aaronson,

I wonder if Ed Young Jr. will take advantage of this to get some of his old followers back. (And maybe pick up a few properties he can flip later.)

Headless Unicorn Guy: You mean the Godly Road Rage incident where ManaGAWD came out roaring after a parking fender-bender (leaving behind his 9mm Emotional Support Companion) and beat the crap out of the other driver while forgetting to set his parking brake and ManaGAWD’s jacked luxury truck rolled away on its own until it hit yet another car?

i.e. THIS ManaGAWD?
https://wonderingeagle.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/screenshot_20230121-164207_facebook.jpg

That MANAGAWD beat up a woman whose husband is a former Navy SEAL. Mac is lucky to still be breathing or lucky be able to walk and eat solid foods for the rest of his life. Think Mr. Clark from Tom Clancy’s “Without Remorse”. His little 9mm Emotional Support Companion would not help in any case…

Ava Aaronson,

I tried to mention this over on Julie’s site, even quoted Wartburg Watch. I know there’s often a delay in comments appearing, but comments posted after mine have appeared and mine hasn’t. It makes me wonder if Julie wants his comments to be the narrative and the truth is inconvenient at this time.

“All I can say is the Evangelical Church in the United States is a dumpster fire. Stay tuned!”

Indeed it is a dumpster fire. In my view, this is largely due to most of the evangelical leaders being ambitious and corrupt, seeking earthly wealth, rewards, fame, and status, instead of seeking to emulate Jesus Christ.

I also feel that the evangelical church has become deeply corrupted and debased by selling itself out to the heretical and antichrist ideologies of zionism, remnant theology, and dispensationalism.

The evangelical church has severely vitiated itself by pledging its allegiance to the evil and depraved ideology of zionism.

The modern evangelical church reminds me of the prostitute in Revelation 17.

I don’t mean to offend anyone, but that is my view.

SP:
Dave A A,

According to public divorce records and Mr Hamps Facebook page, his divorce was finalized in March 2016 and they began dating it seems in April 2016 and according to his Facebook page there was no training happening at that time..? Timing seems questionable there

Seems like he dumped his wife, trading her in for a newer model.

AG,

Thanks so much! Seems like Mr Hamp is playing fast and loose with the facts in his bio. Julie Roys has pulled the article:
‘We have pulled this article due to concerning allegations about the author, Bob Hamp, and confirmation that Hamp was censured by the Texas State Board of Examiners of Marriage and Family Therapists. According to the state board, Hamp engaged in “unethical conduct,” including providing therapy outside of a “professional relationship,” engaging in activities to meet his “personal needs instead of the needs of the client,” and failing to “set and maintain professional boundaries with a client and former client.”’

AG,

The new online church and their online “academy” seems like he is wanting to be a pastor and counselor/ teacher without any leadership above him for accountability. Which is reckless. The wife does that too as a “trauma recovery coach” which has no accountability or oversight. I wonder why so many people choose to still follow him/them. It will be interesting to see if he forfeits his counseling license as well to not have to get in trouble by the state again.

R’as al Ghul: The show must go on, if only to keep the mind-numbed sheep at Gateway fat, dumb, and happy.

As the walking mutton enters the abattoir.

Max: I think we need to be careful accepting any statements

It’s not just from Gateway, of course. Any time I hear someone “transitioned” I automatically think “got fired”. Even in small churches in small communities like mine, it’s the whole “mixed bag”. My neighbor Mike lived with his wife or girlfriend, and then she just vanished. Maybe they’d gotten divorced. Then I started attending a local church, and there was Mike attending with a new improved lady friend.
After a few months a fellow pewsitter told me they’re moving out of town for a fresh start, since her divorce is about to go through. Oh, I thought, she’s married! But no qualms about going to church together.