Pexels/Bruno Cervera
“It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity.” ―
Things are still not going well with my mom. She is dependent, confused, and has limited speech like “yes.” She has a myriad of health problems, which leave us confused. We are staying the course, and the skilled nursing facility does a good job. My two pastors have called me and have been most supportive and insightful, and many church members have been concerned and thoughtful. I am grateful I found my church.
I am returning to my typical reading and exploring many topics. This showed up on X, the site formerly known as Twitter. It was true. At first, I thought it was a joke. Whenever it involves Piper, I should expect weirdness.
What is the sanctuary?
I have so many questions regarding Piper’s theology. Let’s start with this one. What is a sanctuary? According to Dictionary.com:
noun,plural sanc·tu·ar·ies.a sacred or holy place.
Judaism.
the Biblical tabernacle or the Temple in Jerusalem.
the holy of holies of these places of worship.
I know God used to dwell in the Temple, but now the Holy Spirit dwells in each Christian. So, is the sanctuary of a church the place where the Holy Spirit dwells? The Bible also says:
For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”
So, whenever Christians gather, Jesus is present. What does this look like? How about meetings at church? Is Jesus present along with the Holy Spirit in each believer? It would seem so. So, should there be coffee and donuts consumed at this gathering?
Piper appears to think like CJ Mahaney, who claimed that the sermon is the most important hour of the week. In other words, he makes the gathering of the church attendees into a particular sort of sanctuary, which is somehow more holy than any other meeting. He thinks that anything other than full and absolute attention is quite possibly a sin.
I don’t buy that. Some churches do not allow coffee in the area where the pulpit is located because of concerns that spills might ruin the carpet. In all my travels, I have yet to hear that drinking coffee is quite possibly a sin against …who or what exactly? Does God get upset when a parishioner sips their coffee to wake up because they work so hard juggling two jobs to make ends meet that he is chronically tired?
The Twitterverse responds.
Ed Stetzer posted this tongue-in-cheek response recalling Piper’s infamous sendoff of Rob Bell.
The lack of humor is evident in the Piperettes.
Uh oh. The Piperettes were out in force to defend their guy. Here is one tweet that caused me to respond.
Fascinating. So, Stetzer’s humorous response is causing division? I think not. Guess who started it? John Piper is the one who doesn’t like coffee “in the sanctuary,” whatever that means.
Scott Roberts didn’t get the humor implicit in Stetzer’s reply. However, he wanted to chastise Stetzer and make it seem like Stetzer was the one “not respecting” tertiary views. Darn it!! It was Piper who was the one who made a big deal out of coffee drinking in church. Piper knows his “words” are viewed only secondary to “The Word.” He knows better, and I am beginning to think he and his acolytes have a good game going on. Did Piper ever consider the following before shooting off his mouth?
Suddenly, pictures of coffee cups started showing up. These people have a sense of humor and get “tertiary issues.” Scot McKnight posted. The following with this message:
Good morning! May your cup of coffee bless your day.
The Reddit crowd did not disappoint in their responses.
Here is one final tweet that made me smile.
Final thoughts
- Jesus fed those who followed him.
- It’s not about the coffee. It’s about the heart.
- I think Piper could be doing it for attention when things get quiet.
- Most people will totally ignore him.
- He started this, and I believe he knew exactly what the response would be like.
- Is the sanctuary where church services are held special? What happens if the sanctuary is used for other things like meetings, etc.? Is that improper? Is the sanctuary “holy ground?”
Why did this have to be brought up? Did someone in his church get some hot coffee spilled on them during a service? Does the smell bother some so we need to have a coffee and a no coffee sections for people to sit in? Is he offended because people are smiling after they take a sip of that dark brown warm liquid from their cups and not smiling at him during his lecture, I mean sermon?
So Jesus died on the cross so we can argue about coffee at church . . .
“ He thinks that anything other than full and absolute attention is quite possibly a sin.”
And how does he expect totally depraved people to be able to give attention to anything in the morning without their caffeine?
Of course Piper would say that about coffee! He’s a tea-drinker!
Indeed, the last thing you want to do is deprive the totally depraved of their coffee! Especially the most depraved of all … the New Calvinists!
Piper has a way of espresso himself on strange topics.
Well said.
“Keep the Main the Main Thing”
To some churchgoers, coffee and donuts in the church foyer ‘is’ the Main Thing on Sunday mornings! During 70+ years of doing church in America, I knew thousands of them!
You need a LOT of coffee to survive a Piper sermon! It’s like trying to follow a termite in a yoyo!
You need a LOT of coffee to survive a Piper sermon!
Max,
I’d need about a quart of Irish coffee – with more Irish than coffee……..
and a ride home.
Maybe the question is; reverence
[ I’m guilty – I hide the little styrofoam cup under the seat when I imagine no one is looking.]
John Piper will never be accused of being casual about the faith.
Well, MY cup runneth over.
Dee,
That dictionary definition of sanctuary brought into focus something fuzzy in the back of my mind:
When Chapel Hill Bible Church was in the building on Mason Farm Road that is now Chapel Hill Kehillah, the sign out front read “the meeting place of the Chapel Hill Bible Church.” Everyone knew that that wording was intentional. The church is people. The building was where those people gathered.
I seem to recall that the original sign for the building on Erwin Road read the same. We left CHBC around the time of the move, and it was long enough ago that I can’t be sure.
But at some point, CHBC developed a logo and a new sign went up. I noticed it immediately, not because of the logo, but because of the wording: Chapel Hill Bible Church. I wondered about it at the time, because it was completely inconsistent with the explicit message of the original sign.
The Mason Farm Rd building was pretty small, especially before it underwent a modest but lot-filling addition. I remember times where we held a square dance in the main hall on Saturday night, then set up the room for Sunday services. For church dinners, the same space was filled with tables, chairs, and food. The Erwin Rd. building was designed with the same understanding of people over place, but with a far bigger multipurpose space which was also used for Sunday worship.
How far CHBC has come from that fundamental understanding that the church is people.
Obviously it should be a beverage derived from the seed of a plant in the Theobroma genus that should be drunk in church. Theobroma meaning god food.
After reading the book Fidget to Focus, I decided to try discreetly doodling during the sermon to help my mind stay focused. Won’t lie, I was kinda skeptical.
To my shocked surprise, it actually worked. Enough so that I’ve turned it into a regular thing.
Fortunately, the acronym is WWJD and not WWJ[ohn]P[iper]D.
Ironically, coffee shops became a place where I started connecting to God again after spiritual abuse and feeling outcast and unwanted and lost with church and community (including seminary in all of that). So…that’s that! It acts as a real sanctuary for me and I subconsciously associate coffee (er…mochas) with God’s goodness. In coffee shops I started opening my heart again and feeling Gods presence over books, writing and my precious mochas.
Coffee and drink is part of our spirituality – so is food. The Eucharist was the center of the church gathering in the very early church, not a sermon. It’s what people and community centered around to orient around God – and represented the very natural and earthy and good way God came to meet with us and dwell in the incarnation.
What flavor tea does he prefer? Complement-tea-rion!
The conclusion of my favorite Piper article, which I don’t think I’ve quoted before:
“ So the flavor is yes. The answer is yes. The church, as you move through this community, proscribed by and protected by a masculine feel, there will be a feminine feel in lots of places.”
I was reading a lengthy account (sorry, can’t remember where) of what Mark Driscoll’s current church is like. One incident which particularly struck me was when a drunk man wandered in during the sermon, simply wanting to ask Driscoll, because he was a minister to pray for him. The man actually got as far as standing next to Driscoll before being removed by security, who got a roasting from Driscoll for not doing something sooner.
So it’s struck me this week that these people just prove they can’t cope with the real world without escalating it into some huge drama.
Found it: https://julieroys.com/mark-driscoll-cult-like-actions-24-7-surveillance-loyalty/
I used to drink water in the pulpit when I preached. Should I have been defrocked??
I’m glad that we have fully addressed the sexual abuse, greed, porn habits, narcissism, spiritual abuse, sexism, racism, and verbal abuse running rampant in church leadership around the country. enough to now focus on the coffee drinking habits of our parishioners.
#thecluelesspiedPiper
I saw these goings on at Twitter/X.
One of my favorite responses to Piper was something along the lines of:
“So let me get this straight. Coffee is not okay in church but Driscoll is?”
I almost LOL’d on that one. Because we have Piper to thank as one of those that legitimatized Driscoll. Then my thoughts went onto- So, coffee is not okay in the sanctuary but Doug Wilson is? Because, you know, we have Piper to thank for promoting Wilson as well.
Then I saw another tweet defending Piper that concluded that we owed Piper a whole lot.
And all I could think of was, I owe the man absolutely nothing except to love him according to the Bible because that man has given me nothing of value. As a female, he has actively tried to beat me down into a tiny box of his own making using the most sugary/flowery language he could think of to try to convince me that his low view of me was shared by my God (quite the abuse of language, btw).
And he has done great damage to the church by his support of Driscoll, Wilson, and who knows what other abominations living in toxic manhood flesh.
Yes. I saw that twitter/X thing.
John Berry,
There’s a longer, more recent article about these things.
https://julieroys.com/mark-driscolls-safe-space-how-embattled-pastor-built-a-new-church-became-an-online-influencer/
This brought me back to those days. And you are correct about the signage. I sure miss the old and very real CHBC.
Great comment. I read that as well.
Faith? or maybe a guy who likes inventing rules.
Since we are living in the days of Church as Entertainment, drinks and snacks are appropriate while watching the show. At least it’s not soda and popcorn; the kids can make an irreverent mess with that. Piper is certainly an entertaining sort of guy … so enjoy your coffee during his performance.
Dever is? … Chandler is? … Mahaney is? … etc. etc.
No drama … no Driscoll. His ministry has been “successful” because of his dramatic showmanship. He’s continually reinventing himself and new drama to go with it.
He is the quintessential Drama Queen.
Mara R,
yup…
Who likes to lay up heavy burdens on others while not willing to lift a finger to help.
Glad I don’t have to live under the heavy burdens devised by Piper.
It was for freedom the Christ set me free. I will not be subject to the yoke of slavery that Piper peddles.
I have come to discover that this “sanctuary” mindset is 180° different than the Father’s design for Christian worship. Take the Lord’s Supper for example. It should be a Christian fellowship, encouragement, and evangelistic meal. It has devolved into a mid-morning snackette where everyone (sorry, those whom leadership has approved) introspectively and silently “goes to their sanctuary” with no interaction with others. No displays of love, grace, or fellowship (2 Cor. 13:24). The current practice is a complete failure to “discern the body” – the underlying Spirit of Christ in one another.
Jesus washed the disciples feet at the Last SUPPER as a display of his love and service. How tragic that we have more concern for carpet stains than for the blood-stained saints with whom we worship.
Max,
Those dudes are bad news.
But unless I’m missing something, Driscoll and Wilson are both next level.
As far as the Sanctuary question, it just represents the place where God’s people meet, and is a general term understood by Christians. Not that it is an official place to meet God.
As for the gist of the post. He takes worship extremely seriously, and I think that this is a little too picky. I know John, and I love him (Throw some rotten fruit my way), but I drink it as I worship occasionally when I am extremely tired.
Oh yeah! Driscoll and Wilson are at the top of the heap of NeoCal bad-boys!
He’s actually a Diet Coke drinker, at least when he and I have lunch. 🙂
Because fighting over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin is SO day-before-yesterday.
Exactly. Believers are temples of the Holy Spirit. We can meet God daily through the Holy Spirit within us. Church buildings can’t compare.
Then I correct my comment to state: “Of course Piper would say that about coffee! He’s a Diet Coke drinker!” 🙂
Because Wilson is Biblically Gospelly Correct when it comes to GAWD’s Will about Real Men and Femoids.
(InCel terminology deliberate.)
PENETRATE! COLONIZE! CONQUER! PLANT!
PENETRATE! COLONIZE! CONQUER! PLANT!
PENETRATE! COLONIZE! CONQUER! PLANT!
Long, long, time ago, I can still remember…
I grew up in an old Lutheran Church in South Eastern Wisconsin perched on a bluff over looking a river that meandered through town on its way to Lake Michigan.
I was in the boys choir back then and during practice (in the sanctuary), we’d see whose spit-ball-artillery had the right trajectory to make into the baptismal font.
I’ve been told that Muff’s goin’ to hell for those hijinks.
Coffee in the ‘sanctuary’?
He takes worship extremely seriously,
Bob M,
Well, of course he does…..
I get the feeling that he wants all eyes and ears focused solely on the Great John Piper as he shares his infinite biblical wisdom with the multitudes of hungry souls.
He sits i the pew. He does not preach there any more. Kenny Stokes is his pastor.
Perhaps tea, served by the ladies, would be acceptable.
—
re: “sanctuary”, I think there is a valid sense of “corporate temple”, as in the people as a group collectively constituting a kind of “temple” within which God dwells through the Holy Spirit. Paul says this, explicitly, in Eph 2.
That leaves open for debate how, in our day, to identify this temple or what it means to say that God is dwelling there through the Holy Spirit. Personally, I think that it has something to do with the “one another” emphasis in Paul (1 Jn 4 comes to mind, too), and the possibility that the quality of interpersonal relationships among the members of a group may be attractive or repellent to the Spirit. In more speculative moments, I have wondered whether it might be that a “love-one-another relational environment” is a kind of instantiation of the presence of the Spirit.
—
Dee, your Mom and you and your wider family have been and are in my prayers. May God strengthen and encourage you all.
“Of the Assembling of the Congregation, and their Behaviour in the Publick Worship of God” in “The Directory for Public Worship” of the Presbyterian Church has this to say –
“ WHEN the congregation is to meet for publick worship, the people (having before prepared their hearts thereunto) ought all to come and join therein; not absenting themselves from the publick ordinance through negligence, or upon pretence of private meetings.
Let all enter the assembly, not irreverently, but in a grave and seemly manner, taking their seats or places without adoration, or bowing themselves towards one place or other.
The congregation being assembled, the minister, after solemn calling on them to the worshipping of the great name of God, is to begin with prayer.
“In all reverence and humility acknowledging the incomprehensible greatness and majesty of the Lord, (in whose presence they do then in a special manner appear,) and their own vileness and unworthiness to approach so near him, with their utter inability of themselves to so great a work; and humbly beseeching him for pardon, assistance, and acceptance, in the whole service then to be performed; and for a blessing on that particular portion of his word then to be read: And all in the name and mediation of the Lord Jesus Christ.”
The publick worship being begun, the people are wholly to attend upon it, forbearing to read any thing, except what the minister is then reading or citing; and abstaining much more from all private whisperings, conferences, salutations, or doing reverence to any person present, or coming in; as also from all gazing, sleeping, and other indecent behaviour, which may disturb the minister or people, or hinder themselves or others in the service of God.
If any, through necessity, be hindered from being present at the beginning, they ought not, when they come into the congregation, to betake themselves to their private devotions, but reverently to compose themselves to join with the assembly in that ordinance of God which is then in hand.”
So I think John Piper is right to voice his concern.
“A Practical Exposition of the Ten Commandments” by James Durham helps clarify the issues involved.
Thank you!
There’s no doubt that the American church in many places has fallen off the reverent wagon. Christianity Lite has made room for too many deviations from true worship. IMO, coffee in the foyer scores low on the wicked scale compared to pulpits which entertain rather than leading the children of God into holiness.
What about ‘meeting seeds’ — caraway, fennel, etc. that Puritans brought to nibble on during the long long sermons of “publick worship”?
Remember, Pastor Piper, God decreed all things, therefore, coffee drinking in the sanctuary must have been ordained before the foundation of the world.
Nope nope nope. I do worship reverently and humbly, but I am not vile, and Jesus treated his followers and the downtrodden as worthy.
Moreover (sigh) let’s remember the so-called divine right of kings. Regarding the author, “James Durham (1622 1658) served as minister at Black Friars church in Glasgow, a chaplain to King Charles II …” I reject any notion that a human ruler stands over me by God’s special appointment.
So does total depravity really mean total inability in the reformed world? After I came to Christ eons ago, I’ve never felt vileness and unworthiness to approach Him. What a friend I have in Jesus who washed my filth away!
It is issues like “coffee in church” that are leading to outcomes such as:
https://apnews.com/article/nonreligious-united-states-nones-spirituality-humanist-91bb8430280c88fd88530a7ad64b03f8
Yvonne,
This!
from the article: “Most religions are there to control people and get money from them.”
Sure seems to be the case … IMO, only a small percentage of institutional church in America is focused on Jesus and Jesus alone
Friend,
You really need to read more about Durham and what was going on. The odd wiki article doesn’t cut it.
Max,
No, and I think you know that. We can sing –
“ I stand amazed in the presence
Of Jesus the Nazarene,
And wonder how He could love me,
A sinner condemned, unclean.
How marvelous! How wonderful!
And my song shall ever be:
How marvelous! How wonderful!
Is my Savior’s love for me!
2
For me it was in the garden,
He prayed: “Not my will, but Thine.”
He had no tears for His own griefs,
But sweat-drops of blood for mine.
3
In pity angels beheld Him,
And came from the world of light
To strengthen Him in the sorrows
He bore for my soul that night.
4
He took my sins and my sorrows,
He made them His very own;
He bore the burden to Calv’ry,
And suffered, and died alone.
5
When with the ransomed in glory
His face I at last shall see,
’Twill be my joy through the ages
To sing of His love for me.”
And we will be in the same choir.
Max,
I rejoice for you, Max.
However, when I believed that I was filled with filth and vileness, I also believed that way about all who were not (my particular type of) Christians. These days I believe that God loves everyone, and that my neighbors are not filled with filth.
Please note I’m not assuming you believe that others are vile, etc., but I did, because that was the teaching.
Begging your pardon, I don’t need to learn anything more about the consequences of those teachings, specifically in an abusive Presbyterian context.
Life is hard enough. We can lift one another up from daily trials, without adding the excoriation of self and others.
Not at all. Before Christ, I ‘was’ vile, but never felt that way about others then or now … I just knew who I was and whose I am now.
… then shall I know even as also I am known … when the theologies of mere men who have forced us to sing in different choirs on earth have passed away
Max,
Thank you, Max. Again, I wasn’t assuming you believed that about others.
Separately, I am having trouble believing you were ever vile, but Jesus does help us do better, eh? 🙂
With all due respect, why? We can easily read what Jesus tells us and see how He treated others by reading scripture. No man written text will ever compare.
Lowlandseer,
I have never taken food or coffee into a church service, myself…. But bottled water? Yes!!!
For farmers and people who live in farming communities who have allergies (especially during harvest season), it’s either take water/cough drops/tissues to services …. or disrupt services with constant dry coughs and/or sneezes …. or just stay home.
Sure, we can start hacking and get up and go to the water fountain every 10 or 12 minutes, but I think that would be more disruptive than discreetly sipping a bottled water.
Over the counter meds help, but they don’t fix everything.
And everybody shouted AMEN! (or should have). The church stands divided by the teachings and traditions of men … it’s best to stick with the words in red.
If vile includes being morally bad, I was vile. But God …
Well, I wasn’t totally depraved like some folks 🙂
No, Piper and men like him who think the sermon is the holiest and most important hour of the week do NOT take worship extremely seriously. They take themselves and their view of theology seriously by making a LECTURE the focal point of Christian life. A lecture. Also known as a sermon.
How does listening to a man talk about God for an hour equal worship of God? It doesn’t. Worship as defined in the New Testament is offering our bodies (ie our whole life) as living sacrifices. Worship is what we do with our knowledge of God 24/7, not listening to some guy tell us who he thinks God is. Sure, a sermon may give us insight but it can never, ever take the place of actually obeying Jesus and walking with him.
The holiest hour of our week is not a sermon. It’s changing diapers at 1am, or sitting for hours at the bedside of our ailing parents in the name of Jesus. Such worship is pleasing and acceptable to our Heavenly Father.
dee,
Never casual about himself? And the nonsense he spews. DG: Desiring the god of attention, and a platform to say stuff to crowds that are silly enough to listen to this stuff?
… coffee critique, beachwalk collecting seashells rant, grievances re: women with muscles, odd recollections of youth football, stalking youth kissing in cars …
Histrionics galore. Drama queen in a little guy suit. The myth that a clerical collar says stuff that matters, when it doesn’t. Doesn’t matter; doesn’t amount to anything. Drooling dribble. Word salad. Yawn.
Crazy ole guy can return to his retiring rocker of muttering to amuse himself.
Spot on.
The con calling itself church. It happens.
Well, the church I’ve been attending recently with my family not only encourages coffee consumption during the service by brewing it by the gallon, they serve food too. And you know what? If we’re trying to get 3 kids (and ourselves) up and at em on a weekend morning, it very much helps to have food and caffeine where we’re going. I appreciate very much that someone makes the effort to have that happen every week. It’s a way of caring for people, which is a form of reverence for God if you ask me. Fortunately, I don’t think anybody there is going to mind that John Piper doesn’t approve.
If only these drama queens could see that more and more people can see through their charade and see that they resemble what they preach against.
http://frombitterwaterstosweet.blogspot.com/2023/08/driscolls-delusional-thinks-hes-elijah.html
Driscoll thinks he’s Elijah. But he far more resembles the Jezebel in the story because of how outrageously controlling his is. If you believe in a controlling spirit, Driscoll’s got it. Or its got a hold of him.
Jerome,
Yeah, and didn’t the Puritans have folks snoop around during the sermon equipped with long sticks to poke people who were nodding off? Caffeine seems like a much more humane solution. That, and shorter sermons.
John Piper is retired and sits under the instruction and counsel of his own pastor now. But surely that’s no reason to curtail the vitrol against him from the commenters of T.W.W.
Thinks?
The dude thinks about as much as a bullhead in a farm pond.
In case people missed the link to the Roys Report where Driscoll actually compares himself to Elijah in the bitterwaters post, I’ll link it directly here:
https://julieroys.com/mark-driscoll-charlie-kirk-woke-beta-male-pastors/
“I think Piper could be doing it for attention when things get quiet.”
+++++++++++++++++++++++
I’ve observed him doing many things to draw attention to himself.
These things were extreme for the setting and context, totally unnecessary, and served only to move the spotlight to himself.
I just…..
Dave A A,
“The church, as you move through this community, proscribed by and protected by a masculine feel, there will be a feminine feel in lots of places.”
++++++++++++++++
Wins the prize for the dumbest thing I’ve ever read, along with the nonsense from that recent Christian sex book.
I agree with what some here have said I don’t care what he thinks of other people’s coffee drinking habit – fortunately, he is not in any position to influence my coffee habits.
What I do care about is Piper’s promotion of grifters such as the guy in AZ, formerly from WA, or the politically dangerous white supremacist and christian nationalist clown from Idaho. Statements like “I *LOVE* MD’s theology” and “DW gets the gospel” lend credibility to people who should never have preached a single sermon, because they are as far removed from “doing … for the least of these” as anyone can be.
seneca,
Point out the “vitriol. I presented what he said and totally disagreed with both the subject matter and his manner of addressing it. I guess we should be protective of the old man who is the head of a seminary, writer of books, and frequent speaker at conferences.
Such statements really mean “I love reformed theology” … Gospel = Calvinism to the New Calvinists. It’s all about “God”, with little mention of Jesus, and hardly a word about the Holy Spirit. They fail to raise the precious name of Jesus above the names of their reformed icons. It’s a cult of personality with some of the worst personalities which have ever hit the church.
Some of the worst “Jezebels” who have ever hit the church have been narcissistic men. They control followers through manipulation, intimidation and domination.
Vitriol? No. Not vitriol. Just pointing out how much damage that this man has done and is still doing to the body of Christ.
Piper has done more than his fair share of pouring out his own vitriol and distain for women who don’t fit into the tiny box that he has designed for them.
And Piper had promoted Drama Queens and Vitriol Kings, Driscoll and Wilson, who cuss and rage against others in levels of vitriol I could never match, nor want to. Their level of vitriol is not healthy for themselves or anyone.
You just don’t like us pointing out that Piper is dead wrong on so many things. Pointing out Piper’s mountain of errors and making jokes about him because we are so tired of his sh!t is nothing, I repeat, NOTHING in comparison to the damage that man has caused the Church by himself and by legitimizing cult leaders, Driscoll and Wilson.
Mara R,
What does it say about the people of Scottsdale if they’re actually bank-rolling this joker (Driscoll)?
Muff Potter,
Unfortunately, while the Bible tells us to be as shrewd as serpents, far too many Evangelicals are so gullible. I have friends and former family members who believe the online propaganda machine propelling Driscoll into the position of a ‘Christian’ influencer.
Granted, these friends are not in Scottsdale, but I imagine something similar is going on down there. The Scottsdale people were love bombed into the congregation and are kept through either ignorance or fear. Or a screwed up combination of both.
One friend, when I pointed out the Rise and Fall of Mars Hill podcast, she came back with, well, her husband listened to the podcast and thought it was unfairly slanted against Driscoll.
Sigh.
seneca,
A Wilson example of vitriol whom Piper mistakenly thinks “gets the Gospel”. Just listening to the man for very long and you realize that Wilson doesn’t get Jesus Christ. So how the heck would he ever get the gospel. Answer. He doesn’t.
https://wenatcheethehatchet.blogspot.com/2012/11/doug-wilson-almost-channels-eric-cartman.html
IMO, New Calvinists as a group don’t get Jesus nor ‘the’ Gospel. To them, Calvinism = Gospel. When you start with that as your faith foundation, salvation in the Cross of Christ for ALL people is not preached.
Fortunately, only a small percentage of Scottsdalians have fallen for Driscoll. Thus, the rest of them are a smart lot.
Your reckon Seneca ‘is’ Piper?
Driscoll used to troll watchblogs under an alias of William Wallace II.
Mara R,
One of my all-time heroes was Hypatia of Alexandria.
Astronomer and mathematician, she was within a centimeter’s breadth of postulating helio-centrism long before Copernicus ever thought of it.
She was murdered by a mob of Christian zealots who took Paul seriously that a woman must not teach.
I bet John Piper is reading this blog, chuckling as he sips on a cup of coffee.
I thought Seneca’s pic looked like you, Mr. Piper
seneca,
So the inventor of “Christian hedonism” is now creating rules about coffee in the church service. HaHaHa….what a joke.
Ohhhh, but the NeoCal 5-point Calvinists MUST listen to him about everything … the Pied Piper has declared himself a 7-point Calvinist, so he alone holds absolute truth above all other theodudes. He is 2-points greater than them all. From coffee to wimmenfolk, Pastor John is the final authority. The Hedonist is the MAN!
Thank you, Mara R, for the link to The Roys Report post Mark Driscoll Declares War On ‘Woke,’ ‘Beta-Male’ Pastors on Charlie Kirk Podcast.
From TRR post:
Driscoll likes to compare himself to Elijah, focussing only on the whole “man’s man” thing. Has Driscoll ever read the part of the Bible where Elijah “ran away”? The part in 1 Kings 19?
Even Jesus and some of the other people in the Bible (for any number of reasons) “ran” away….maybe Mark Driscoll needs to read the WHOLE Bible, learn Who God and Jesus REALLY are….
(I’m intentionally omitting a ton of details from both TRR post and the Bible in my comment….I’ve no intention of repeating what was already written in both the TRR post and the Bible…. 🙂 )
Here’s the bottom-line for me on coffee vs. church … I might as well enjoy a cup of joe when I visit since there’s nothing spiritual going on in most of the American church (including Piper’s outfit). If and when Jesus is invited back into the house by both pulpit and pew, I’ll reconsider dropping the coffee.
Has he read the 1943 OSS psych profile on a certain A.Hitler?
Because Deep Throat Driscoll sounds like he’s got the same definition of “Masculinity”:
All Domination, Aggression, and Violent Action without anything else to balance it out.
Have you ever seen Smug Seneca & Pious Piper in the same place at the same time?
“People with too much money — Let us relieve them of their burden!”
“Pray for the peace of Jerusalem:
“May they prosper who love you!
Peace be within your walls
and security within your towers!””
Psalms 122
Max,
The entire area, not just Jerusalem.
Max,
Bridget,
Thank you both, Max and Bridget, for starting me on a train of thinking….and no offence to either of you, or to the Bible intended….I’d write:
Pray for the peace of the world on all levels, not just Jerusalem or the entire area….all levels being humankind, animals, the planet, the environment, etc. A world without war, without famine, without waste (not meaning waste in the sense of necessary bodily functions 🙂 ), etc….
I watched something really neat on TV the other night….using different kinds of mushrooms for so many different things….and I’m not meaning the usual reference to Magic Mushrooms, although what is being tried with these particular mushrooms could be considered magic. 🙂
These mushrooms are being used in tests to break down creosote. They mentioned using these mushrooms to break down railroad ties — railroad ties are preserved with creosote — into something completely non-toxic….perhaps something that could be used to replenish soil.
It’s like these people were using the mushrooms to return the earth to peace with itself….returning the planet to peace with itself.
Must be lots of Harley Quinn Syndrome going down in Scottsdale.
Would like to see a breakdown by gender.
Or maybe mass heatstroke is also a factor.
Scottsdale is a suburb of Phoenix, and they call that area the Valley of the Sun for a reason.
Considering “Worship” has been redefined as a Kickin’ Rock Concert and nothing more…
(all you need is to pass out Ecstasy for Communion and you’ve got a Holy Rollin’ Rave right there)
Like one of those Jack Chick tracts where the Saved look like shining Nordics and the Heathen all look like Orcs dipped in dogsh*t.
Max,
But you have to include refreshments with entertainment!
I agree 100 PCT.
The response to the idea that coffee drinkers might forgo drinking it during services would make you think someone had suggested something really out there- like, say, replacing hymns with rock performances?
And with some of these Worship Bands(TM), I’d expect MDMA/Ecstasy for the refreshments.
Mrs Smith,
For a while I went to a church where there was a cake break after the sermon.
seneca,
We haven’t got any vitriol, we are nobodies with no power except thirst for knowledge balance, which are vulnerable. The personage whom you worship in ad hominem fashion is an “influencer”. Evanglicals were warned not to do that in 1966. Also, “new calvin-ists” are “theological liberals” because they are dumbers-down.