“But in the end, it’s only a passing thing, this shadow; even darkness must pass.” ― The Lord of the Rings”
Why is this happening in SBC churches?
Why? Why are pedophiles and abusers making their homes in SBC churches? Let’s discuss this after I provide the sickening details of these molestations by one youth pastor, Keenan Hord. This awful story is particularly concerning because it involves at least three large, well-known SBC churches: FBC Bentonville, Bellevue Baptist, and FBC Texarkana (and probably more.) Let me say upfront that there is no indication that these churches hid the abuse. But it is even sadder that they had no idea that the abuse was occurring. When they found out, it appeared they responded appropriately, but the question remains. How did such a huge number of molestations go undetected?
Why does this make me a bit suspicious, given the number of boys?
This one is personal to me. The abuser at my former church, Doug Goodrich, abused many young teen boys. 13 testified against him. There were others whose parents reportedly did not allow their boys to testify. Some say the number at our church could have been as many as at these churches. My former church claimed they did not know about this behavior until the local police caught him in the act in some park. But, a year later, a young teen and his parents came to me and said they had reported suspicious behavior of this SEBTS seminary student and were blown off by the youth pastors who denied it. Thankfully, these pastors are apparently no longer involved in church work.
So, color me suspicious. Once again, it appears they responded appropriately. I sure hope they did. Nuff said on that subject.
What happened?
Sarah Einselen, writing for The Roys Report, wrote Former SBC Youth Pastor & Speaker Faces Child Sex Charges in Arkansas.
First Baptist Church Bentonville (link to church)
A former Southern Baptist youth pastor and speaker in Arkansas faces multiple charges related to sexual misconduct with children, a probable cause affidavit shows. Authorities say the former youth pastor could have more than 30 victims.
Records show Keenan Hord, 31, is being held on a $500,000 bond in the Benton County Jail. He’s now facing charges of second-degree sexual assault, possessing matter depicting sexually explicit conduct involving a child, and sexual indecency with a minor, KNWA in Northwest Arkansas reported.
Until recently, Hord was the student pastor for First Baptist Church Bentonville, a Southern Baptist church where popular CCM artist Clay Cross serves as worship pastor, an archived church webpage shows.
Bellevue Baptist Church (link to church)
Hord also had worked for several years at Bellevue Baptist Church, a prominent Southern Baptist church near Memphis, Tennessee, where Steve Gaines is pastor
FBC Texarkana Texas (Student Ministry) (link to church) camp
Hord was not working in the ‘church but spoke at various church-sponsored events.
Facebook posts also show Hord was a speaker at youth events for numerous churches around the country, including a camp hosted by the FBC Texarkana Student Ministry.
Hord was eventually arrested but not before allegedly harming many children.
According to 40/29 News which posted Former youth pastor at First Baptist Church Bentonville arrested on sexual indecency charge
Keenan Hord was arrested Thursday night and has been booked into the Benton County Detention Center. He is facing charges that include sexual assault and possessing sexually explicit material involving a child.
A judge set a cash bond of $500,000 in the case.
During the bond hearing, county prosecutors said there are potentially more than thirty victims.
According to Fox 13 in Former Bellevue Baptist Church employee arrested, accused of inappropriate behavior with children:
On Aug. 19, Bentonville Police received an Arkansas State Police child abuse hotline notification initiated by First Baptist Church.
The investigation led to Bentonville detectives executing a search warrant at a home in Bentonville on the same day, according to police.
On Aug. 23, a warrant was issued for Hord for sexual indecency with a child.
How was this discovered?
FBC Bentonville reported it by contacting the Arkansas child abuse hotline. There was a 15-year-old boy who was targeted with over 5,000 text messages from Hord.
Again, from 40/29tv:
Hord worked as a youth pastor at First Baptist Church Bentonville, Smith said. The church contacted the child abuse hotline immediately upon learning of allegations against Hord.
A detective told a judge Hord had inappropriate contact with a 15-year-old. He said law enforcement found more than 5,000 text messages between Hord and one victim.
First Baptist Church Bentonville is cooperating with the investigation, Smith said.
According to the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette in Former Bentonville youth minister accused of sex crimes with multiple boys, the Bentonville church released a statement which was posted on Baptist News Global;
“We have been devastated to learn that a former employee of our church has been credibly accused of abusing adolescents during his tenure at our church,” First Baptist Bentonville said in a statement to Baptist Press. “While these accusations did not come to light until after his employment ended, when we learned of them we immediately contacted our local authorities, made a report to the Arkansas Child Abuse Hotline, and continue to fully support the ongoing law enforcement investigation.”
The police found Hord’s phone with over 500,000 text messages on it!
Boothman said police had spoken to six victims and identified up to 30 possible victims with an examination of Hord’s cellphone.
Bentonville police Sgt. Josh Woodhams testified he examined a cellphone belonging to one of the boys that revealed a romantic and sexual relationship between Hord and the boy. He said there were 5,000 conversations on the phone between Hord and the boy.
Woodhams said police located a half million text messages on the phone. As many as 30 boys had conversations with Hord, Woodhams said.
According to Raw Story in Ex-youth pastor at prominent Southern Baptist church may have abused as many as 30 boys:
They also found video of one boy recorded in a bathroom stall, police said.
Bellevue Baptist Church is launching an investigation and said it “is not clear” if anyone was harmed at Bellevue.
That means there is a possibility and given this man’s alleged history I would say it is likely.
Mark Wingfield of Baptist News Global reported: Former Bellevue youth pastor ‘credibly accused of abusing adolescents’ at Baptist church in Arkansas.
Bellevue announced it is launching an internal review into Hord, who worked on the Bellevue youth ministry staff from 2011 through 2016.
Bellevue spokesperson Noah Sidhom told the newspapers the Memphis church had been notified by First Baptist Church of Bentonville of Hord’s arrest. The pastor of the Bentonville church is Chris Dixon, who has been in that role only one year.
Whether any allegations of wrongdoing have been made against Hord related to his tenure at Bellevue is not yet clear.
“We have been devastated to learn that a former employee of our church has been credibly accused of abusing adolescents during his tenure at our church,” FBC Bentonville said in a statement. “We are ministering to the survivors and their families who demonstrated incredible courage in coming forward.”
So far, there is no statement that I could find from FBC Texarkana as to whether or not they will launch an investigation. I think that they should.
So, why is this happening and why are there so many stories about the SBC?
I am going to throw out some quick thoughts. I bet you will have far more than me.
- People naively trust that church pastors are godly and are there to serve God. They forget the sinful nature in all.
- This naive confidence is a clarion call to perverts. What a gig!
- People believe that background checks will prevent problems. Well over 90% of pedophiles are not caught until they have abused over 100 times.
- A youth pastor is often young, and most people who are caught tend to be older.
- Youth pastors are also a cult of personality. They are not paying close attention to these kids and are missing clues.
- Given the lack of training in how to avoid abuse, they could be blowing off actual reports of grooming behavior. See my experience with my former SBC church.
- There is inappropriate supervision at churches, camps, etc. Parents are happy to dump their teens in the church. Parents will have to begin to take this problem seriously and volunteer instead of dumping their kids.
- Churches tend to overlook or dismiss reports like my former church. They have no wish to ruin a good youth group over an icky report.
- Churches want to protect their image. Here is a problem. Celebrity pastors have no desire to get down and dirty to see what is going on in the church. Folks, this one is up to you if you like megachurches with celebrity speeches instead of sermons.
- Parents, look at your kid’s phone. You should not be able to overlook 5,000 texts!
- Be very aware of youth pastors. Do they act too familiar? Are they texting your kid? What are they texting?
- Your kids may not report unusual behavior to you since they want to be seen as cool. Predators love this!
- Now it’s your turn.
I wish you all a Happy Labo Day. Thank you for the work that you do and wish you the strength to continue. We are going to have o barbecue with our family and watch the new Lord of the Rings on Prime.
First???
Very sad Dee. You nailed it when you said we are naive. For all the people that criticize your blog, I would say that your work has helped many to be less naive and recognize the sinful nature in all. Plus, most of the stories toy cover clearly demonstrate that churches have been involved in cover ups. How can anyone not see this after all that has come out?
“People believe that background checks will prevent problems. Well over 90% of pedophiles are not caught until they have abused over 100 times.”
Very true. But it is a warning sign if you find out background checks aren’t happening. That is the sign of extremely niave leadership.
This seems to be more and more prevalent in the SBC as time goes on.
I wonder why that is?
Will it be a repeat of the Roman Catholic scandals once it reaches a critical mass and some SBC big whigs get charged with complicity?
Muff Potter,
It seems like they’ve been passing abusers around the SBC for decades. One thing is for certain, the SBC does not know how to protect children and women from abuse. It doesn’t seem like they try at all.
How is this list specific to SBC churches? Does this not apply to any church?
In answer to your question, I think that authoritarian churches are magnets for predators and abusers. The culture and leaders emphasize obedience and trust. Those outside the church are “othered”—actually, that’s true of churches that aren’t authoritarian, too. But the Baptists teach their congregations that all those people “out there” are going to burn in hell in eternal torment. That makes them “not as good” in the eyes of the church attenders. They need to be “fixed” by hearing the gospel and “turning their hearts to the Lord”.
Churchgoers are trained to believe that those in the Body are trustworthy. Coded language is used to reinforce trust. “Brothers” and “sisters”—imitating close family relationships. “Pastor”—“shepherd” (one who cares tenderly for the sheep)—“servant leader” (sounds humble and kind, someone you can surely trust. No?).
In our former abusive patriarchal authoritarian cult, the leaders loved that verse about how we should not be a trouble to the leadership because they have the care of our souls. Church discipline was administered “more in sorrow than in anger” and with an implied “this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you”(funny how I never believed my parents when they said that).
Preachers are taught to be skilled at emotional manipulation. Aren’t the most impactful sermons the ones that stir your emotions?
Shame is a big part of the culture and an effective control mechanism. The leaders determine who is “good”—and it often turns out to be abusers because predators are very good at emotional manipulation and hiding their evil behind a smile, or tears of fake repentance when caught doing evil. Meanwhile, victims might be confused, might be angry, don’t want to trust the authority figure(s), don’t want to obey authorities who demand that they forgive the “repentant” abuser and even shoulder part or all of the blame for the abuse.
Church culture is ripe for abuse. I think that predators have come to see church culture—especially authoritarian church culture—as excellent cover. That is, if they hadn’t already known about the excellent hunting grounds that congregations provide.
I am not sure if the SBC was always so authoritarian. (The IFB seems more likely to have a long history.) I seem to remember hearing anecdotes about women preaching and teaching, women who were missionaries, and something about individual responsibility and salvation (?)—I forget the term.
But the takeover by the neo-cals and YRR crowd changed the teachings, the mindset, and the congregational culture.
Just a few thoughts. I don’t know how coherent they are. It’s all wrapped around hierarchy and authoritarian thinking, though, my brain insists, which may be why the abuse that flourished in the RCC was so widespread.
I knew some lovely older Baptists, once upon a time. I don’t think they’d recognize what their church has turned into.
I’m not sure how to say this so I’ll put it as a question. Obviously Baptists in Britain are not SBC and I’d never met anyone so I looked it up. I was shocked to find the role slavery played in the church’s founding and ongoing support for segregation.
The question to me would be, if your church is founded in treating other people as property, wouldn’t that have ongoing effects in the mindset of the people who belong to it and ongoing way of seeing and treating other people?
I repeat … the American church seriously needs to revisit its youth ministry model. Putting a young man in charge of youth is simply not the Biblical model. Senior saints are to mentor young folks. But most churches put a young man right out of seminary into a youth “pastor” position before they are experienced, tried, and true. The old SBC model was to take on young ministers in an associate capacity, closely mentored by the church’s pastor and under congregational governance. Releasing an untested unspiritual flesh-baby into ministry over more flesh-babies is just not a good idea. The Scriptural mandate “Do not lay on hands suddenly” applies here regarding SBC’s ordination process.
“Do not be too quick in the laying on of hands and thereby share in the sins of others” (1 Timothy 5:22)
IMO, church leaders at Bellevue, Bentonville, and Texarkana share in the sins of Mr. Hord.
I also repeat … you simply can’t afford to trust anyone – anyone – in a church leadership position until you know them, really know them. Surely, surely … there were red flags with this guy during his long ministry at three churches.
Well, I may not be lovely, but I spent 70+ years in SBC ranks … bailing out when the New Calvinists took over. Many of my generation would testify to a different SBC of yesteryear. Sure, there were bad-boys in the pulpit then, some detected some not. But the abuse – sexual, authoritarian & spiritual – has reached epidemic proportion in recent years.
Marlita Silver,
This is not specific to SBC churches in terms of why this happens. Unfortunately, the SBC has had a documented history of overlooking sexual abuse, covering up sexual abuse, and lots of pastors who have sexually abused. I guess that’s the consequence of being the biggest denomination. There is a reason the Dept of Justice is investigating them.
Certainly! No single denomination owns abuse.
However, with the continued string of abuse reports in SBC and its ongoing DOJ investigation, Mr. Chandler (from the previous post) has handed us a new word to nail above SBC: “Unhealth”
While the incidents are perhaps few in the minds of some considering the size of SBC (47,000+ churches), the denomination definitely has some housecleaning to do.
“There is inappropriate supervision at churches, camps, etc. Parents are happy to dump their teens in the church.”
This is a huge problem with 21st century parents, reaching back into the last century. Folks, you just can’t afford to take this risk with your children … to blindly place your trust with camp personnel you don’t know. Kanakuk Kamps comes to mind.
My grandsons have never been to, nor will they go, to a church camp or other summer camp … Papaw steps in to make their summers are exciting with nature adventures. Our family also sows into their spiritual development with Bible studies and prayer. However, I realize most parents don’t have an awesome Grandpa like me to help out :-). My latest project has been to make cool hiking sticks for my grandsons, with animal tracks burned into them. IMO, there is a nature-deficit disorder afflicting many children today … Ole Max intends to do his part to relieve this while he’s still around by getting the grandsons outdoors to explore.
Precisely. When I started researching abuse in general, I was surprised by how much the authoritarian church praised abusive attitudes. Which led me to realize that it was itself abusive.
Max, I agree with everything you have said.
As to why it is happening in any churches, including the SBC, I will give my own opinion. Jesus made us all equal, a group where everyone is priest. We are not to have these shamans among us. Preachers, yes, but that is clearly a mode of evangelism. I support that. The places where in English it is translated pastors or shepherds do not, imho, mean AT ALL what we think of when we hear those words in 2022. More it is the person who maybe sets out the folding chairs or cooks the pot luck or brings the tater salad when God’s church meets. As to the newer Bible versions that tell you to obey them in spiritual authority over you, chuck them in the fire place. It tells you to obey the magistrates or basically the government unless the government tells you to disobey God.
Until the church obeys God, ditches trying to reinvent temple Judaism, and functions as the church with every member of the body serving, with services done Biblically instead of what we humans have invented, we will continue to see it crash and burn.
In the words of an old hymn, revised a tad to include the ladies, “Rise up oh people of God, have done with lesser things.”
I have a suspicion that this may have much longer roots than that. Or maybe an on and off again problem if you feel there was a stretch where it wasn’t? Though, my dad would argue that he wasn’t supervised at all from about 8-9 years old. Of course, he grew up in the sticks, where there was nobody, so maybe it didn’t matter.
All I’m getting at is that boarding schools have been part of middle to upper class life for a very, very long time. And many of those boarding schools had pretty interesting discipline standards. Somehow, sending your kid to a boarding school for the entire school year seems a little more hands off than sending them to a youth group once a week or to a summer camp for a week.
I’m glad your kids have a Pawpaw. I had a Pawpaw too, but he wasn’t nearly as interested in us.
I can’t put a finger on why, but the comments are reminding me of a situation from this summer:
My 9-year old niece was at a Christian summer camp and broke her leg. At the time she broke her leg, she was in her swimsuit. So my brother gets a call, and frantically drives to the camp. He calls me to help him calm down on the drive, and tells me the camp nurse said her foot was at an angle to her leg. So this is not a “good” break. The Camp nurse mentions they are trying to get shorts on her before they take her to the hospital for modesty reasons… My brother yells at her.
Niece had a spiral fracture, that almost required surgery and pins. She is doing well now, and just recently got out of her cast.
Later on, my brother and I are discussing this, and he attributes this to naiveté on the Camp nurses part. Which is weird because my brother doesn’t really give churches the benefit of the doubt. I have a very different feeling. A camp nurse should know basic bone break protocol – which means: don’t unnecessarily move the broken bone. And she should be prioritizing that over any modesty issues. Furthermore, how hard is it to throw a towel over the kid? That is more “modest” than a pair of shorts anyways? And furthermore, what kind of person sees a kid whose foot is clearly not properly attached and feels… That is one sick person.
Through discussion, my brother and I figured out that the reason it bothered me so much more than him is because I had grown up subjected to modesty standards that hurt me physically. I have Hypermobile Ehlers Danlos Syndrome, which I was finally diagnosed with 2 years ago. I partially dislocate bones like people put on socks. I’ve had 9 major dislocations, most of which were “spontaneous.” When I was 16, my jaw locked shut for 11 days. My physical therapist explained that for the rest of my life, if I used a purse, I was to use a small cross body purse because that would be the safest loading pattern on my very fragile skeleton. This has been confirmed by every PT I’ve seen since, and with my diagnosis, I have a lifetime prescription for PT. I also could never do the “cool” thing of wearing my backpack on one shoulder. In college, I was confronted, more than once, for my “immodest” cross body purses. You see, the strap runs between the breasts, and that could cause lust. The integrity of my skeleton was not important. When I pointed out that seatbelts do the same thing, I was told that was a safety issue.
I don’t even know what my point is or how it relates to the article. But something about authoritarian structures set it off.
Don’t know how ……. Don’t try…..
I would posit that they don’t care, at least not until the stories hit the news.
As a former Southern Baptist, I believe that in many cases -and in this case in particular- we should not cut the churches (church and SBC leaders)any slack.
Hord is 31 years old. Many people in the SBC have been protecting predators and passing them along for quite a bit longer than Hord has walked the earth.
Hord abused children at Bellevue, under Steve Gaines, former SBC president. In 2006, Gaines knew about, hid the truth, and protected another predator at Bellevue. ……. Now there’s Hord, who not only committed atrocities at Bellevue, but went on to do the same at two other major SBC churches.
“WE THANK THEE, LOOOOOOOOORD, THAT WE ARE NOTHING LIKE THOSE FILTHY ROMISH PAPIST PRIESTS OVER THERE…” — the SBC
“Nature? What’s the App for that?”
Youth ministry, now called “Next Generation” by many, was unheard of until very modern times. One of the many issues which made me a pariah in my last church was asking why so much effort was required for youth ministry. I touched the third rail with that question. Even if the idea behind it is sound otherwise, the insatiable need for volunteers to keep it running almost guarantees abusers will get access to children. Is it really worth that risk? Does the benefit justify the cost?
And it even follows the rules of 1984 Newspeak!
Historical example: That Peculiar Institution regarding Animate Property so beloved by that Jerk with his Kirk trying to take over Moscow, Idaho.
ES,
I understand your point…. so much of Evangelical/fundy christiainity is really missguided… it can obsess on “modesty” of the pew peons… modesty of women is more important, or what the current trend of “modesty” is, than really CARING about them..
but overlook/coverup the GROSS behavior of leaders..
I grew up that way …… on a farm. But, meeting certain farm related responsibilities and expectations paralleled that freedom…….. and trust.
I think the modesty is is a ruse. It’s really more about control.
This is mind-boggling!
How is it that law-enforcement is still not involved?
In my neck-of-the-woods, he’d have been in the hoosgow faster than you can say chester-the-molester.
Which parallels how my dad raised us. We were not raised on a farm, but he was. And my dad trusted us more than any of our friends were trusted. By a huge margin. And we behaved really well because we didn’t want to lose that freedom and trust.
Of course, he also didn’t flip out about things he considered normal behavior. Do something stupid and break something? Fix it. It’s your job to fix what you broke. No grounding, no additional punishment, just take responsibility and restore what you screwed up.
@ericgarland writes of the connection of a State AG and trafficking: “They enabled A SLAVERY RING.” https://www.kansascity.com/news/state/missouri/article265246901.html
Perhaps LE is in cahoots.
Church leaders love love love AKA TARGET their church young people, both boys and girls. Church is a target rich environment for predators in the clerical profession (of the theology or evangelical persuasion).
Lusty ole leaders preying on the young. Fresh meat. It’s a thing. The numbers tell the story. Exponentially.
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/investigations/abuse-of-faith/
“Three Leading SBC Churches …”
They are no longer “leading” in my mind anymore.
The youth pastors at SBC church plants in my area are now called “NextGen Pastors”
There is no App for fishing with my grandsons
And all Wartburgers shouted AMEN! (or should have)
Priesthood of ‘the’ believer knows no boundaries by race, class or gender. Stick with Jesus on this, not mere men.
My son-in-law has an IT business, so he, my daughter, and my 3 1/2 yo grandson live in a city. My grandson loves to come out to the farm, though. On his last visit, we explored the life cycle of toads and frogs …… he didn’t quite believe that tadpoles grew up to be frogs and toads. So, we caught tadpoles, spied tadpoles with legs and observed them, watched tiny baby frogs and toads hop, caught an adult frog and learned how to hold it, then let him go ……… we had a blast! It’s been a long time since I had so much fun getting filthy-muddy-slimey-smelly!
18 equal standing gifts. Only 1 is pastor, on level ground with the other 17.
Rom 12, 1 Cor 12, Eph 4.
Shamans is a good word for what goes on.
Nancy2(aka Kevlar),
Old Yeller, an ornate box turtle that has lived in our yard for years showed up today while our grandsons were here. He was crossing the road heading back to our house, so we went out to help him get back safely. I scolded him (the turtle) for disappearing for so long – hadn’t seen him all summer. The boys were fascinated to learn that ornate box turtles could live to be 30+ years. They held it and put it back on its journey, after it peed on one of them; we all laughed. A touch of nature they will never forget. There are no Apps for stuff like this.
(of course, this has nothing to do with the topic at hand … but Lord knows we need an occasional diversion from all the junk in the church)
Ava Aaronson,
I’m completely aghast that this kind of $|-|it has been allowed to go on as long as it has. I hope to God that federal indictments will be forthcoming.
Then watch em’ howl that they’re being ‘persecuted’ and how the states and feds are ‘destroying the free-enterprise system’.
Well, not finding out “how” and “not trying” to protect women and children is pretty much saying with their actions that they don’t care.
Sadly, we agree on this subject.
There are a LOT of pictures of Hord with young people on his Instagram, in fact he looks to be around them more than with adults:
https://www.instagram.com/keenanhord/
Not sure if a link to his social media is ok (it’s public). Delete this comment if not.
Paul does seem to have seen distinctions in the utility of the gifts — “earnestly seek the greater gifts”; he famously preferred ‘prophecy’ to (uninterpreted) ‘tongues’. But the reason to desire “greater” gifts is for the sake of their utility to the community. To exalt oneself above one’s neighbor one account of differences in ‘giftedness’ is to misunderstand what the gifts are for; perhaps that’s a form of failure to “discern the Body.”
Or, to put it another way, if one wants to be “great” in Jesus’ assemblies, one should humble oneself in service to one’s neighbors. All the preoccupation with status, power and control not only misses the point, but is antithetical to the spirit Jesus wanted in his followers.
And, of course, immediately after that counsel to earnestly seek the greater gifts, Paul riffed at length on the character of Jesus — faith, hope and love — which is the context in which the gifts can be beneficial to the community.
Until a congregation of believers fully understands and embraces this, they aren’t truly doing church in my humble but accurate opinion.
Ava Aaronson,
Samuel Conner,
I’ll add that I think that our justified dismay at the abuses of power we see in churches that organize themselves in the form of “authority/control hierarchies” can obscure or eclipse the reality that there is some form of hierarchy discernible in the biblical texts. My interpretation of this is that what the Creator intends for the social organization of His image-bearers is that they would form “hierarchies of self-giving love,*” in which rather than control flowing from above, what flows, in all directions, is kindness and care from each according to his/her ability, for the benefit of all. The churches could be, and perhaps are intended to be, examples to the rest of humanity in this regard. There is a better way to be human.
—-
“hierarchy of self-giving love” is a highly counter-cultural concept, perhaps almost an oxymoron. I think that Jesus illustrates this, and I think he commanded it.
Google the phrase with quotes to force exact matching and laugh (or weep) at how few hits you find.
Totally agree.
We took a class at our church that used this book (the church didn’t practice what it preached, BTW):
“Someone has likened Christians to ballplayers on a team. Every member of the lineup is expected to take his turn at bat and do his best to get on base. Though some may make their major contribution in some other way such as pitching or fielding, all are expected to try to get a hit. Two or three players may have the ability to hit the long ball, but all members of the team try to single their way on base. On the Christian team, every believer is expected to try to connect in every area of Christian living. True, some believers may have special abilities in certain areas, but this does not excuse every believer from taking his turn at the plate and doing his best. Every believer must witness, show mercy, give, and obey every command, though only some may have Spirit-given endowments for particular Christian services.”
― Leslie B. Flynn, 19 Gifts of the Spirit
The class explained what we had seen on the mission field. Gifts, in action, endowed by the Holy Spirit. Everyone served, with different gifts evident through no credit to the gifted.
6 gifts are for evangelism. 6 gifts are for discipleship. 6 gifts are for fellowship. 6 (human) x 3 (God) = 18 gifts equipping the church, God’s presence on Earth.
The fruit of the HS, however, is to be universal.
“We must judge all teaching by the Word of God.”
― Leslie B. Flynn, 19 Gifts of the Spirit
Evangelism, discipleship, and fellowship (collaboration, NOT coffee and donuts) are the 3 foundational functions of the church:
1. Believe, commit (evangelism), life commitment.
2. Live the life of following Jesus (daily disciplines of being a disciple), lifestyle.
3. Live in community with others that also equally commit and follow Jesus.
Life commitment.
Life style.
Life community.
Pretty much what life is all about.
I’m going to post this on my blog today, with attribution, of course, if you don’t mind. It’s an excellent thought for today, Sunday.
Ava Aaronson,
feel free to quote me … we are in this mess together, Ava
Serious question, does anyone understand even what to embrace.
God’s not speaking about it with me and really none of the options currently on tap resonate in any way, shape or form.
As Neo said in the Matrix “there is no spoon”
Max,
https://wildmustangmall.com/blog/f/doing-church
Done.
Only to the likes of PASTOR Greg Locke and PROPHET Kat Kerr (and her magic wizard’s staff).
You mean there are more than Tongues, Tongues, Tongues, Tongues, and Tongues?
Nowadays, twitter, twitter, twitter, twitter, and twitter?
An elderly prayer lady friend calls tongues her personal prayer language, which she uses privately in her prayers alone with God, when she feels only the HS can speak for her. (There’s a biblical reference to this.)
Personally, I’m neither for nor against in that regard, so lingering in the tongues DMZ.
Every time I’ve heard a prophecy or a tongues interpretation in a charismatic setting, it’s always a frumpy older woman type, and always starts out, “My children, …” then it rambles into something that always sounds the same but for goodness sakes, it’s never memorable, so don’t recall what the always-the-same message is/was.
However, I do recall clearly that it is ALWAYS interesting to get on TWW here and compare notes about what happens in church from the audience perspective.
Church is where you go and sit and soak it up (drop $$$ in the passing plate), then leave and say nothing unapproved (“gossip”), until you can get back online and compare notes at TWW about what is ACTUALLY happening at church and everyone sitting there with half a brain KNOWS but refrains from discourse.
Ah yes, we also talk about it at home, and among family and friends, who participate ever so politely in “church”.
I’ve personally wondered if a good portion of the “gift of tongues” is actually simply the natural ability to pick up languages that some people are blessed with. One could argue that lots of people who are not Christians are blessed in the language department, but lots of people who are not Christians are also really good teachers, or healers, or speakers. So, I’m not so sure that some of these gifts aren’t things we are naturally endowed with that as Christians, we are expected to use them within the context of church.
When I look at tongues in the Bible, for instance Acts, it seems the purpose of those tongues were to spread the gospel to known language groups. And I feel like its possible that the Epistles are saying “it’s fine to teach and preach in another language, as long as someone interprets.” I wonder if our sense of this has been lost because the Catholic Church evolved Latin from the Vulgar language into an extra special Church language, so then this speaking in tongues thing had to become something else?
That doesn’t explain people who have experienced speaking in tongues as a separate language, and I understand that. I just wonder if perhaps we have limited the definition beyond what was originally intended.
Ava Aaronson,
Great article, Ava. Nice website.
When I was a young man, I read the Bible and asked the Holy Spirit to lead me to Truth. I then compared what was revealed to me about ‘the’ Church with the organized church in America … there’s very little resemblance … and I’ve been burdened about it ever since. Every believer would do well to consider two premises in view of Scripture … “What the church is” … “What the church isn’t”. IMO, very few gatherings of believers practice the former, while the vast majority are locked up in the latter.
Thanks, Max, for the positive feedback.
What you recommend is Spot On. Hold up “church” to Jesus and the Bible to measure how much “church” is going on. You’ve given me another direction for a post, so I’ll probably do this one, too. Maybe tomorrow. I’ll put in the link to your comment.
In my novel, “Legal Grounds” I illustrate this very practice with the story of a young girl who is confused about God with regard to her dad’s use of the commandment, “Honor thy father.” Her dad is misusing the Bible, but it is through reading the Bible that she begins to figure it out. Unfortunately, in the story, the pastor and her family at large are not supportive of her journey. But she keeps looking to Jesus. (This happens too often, thus, the novel.)
For some young people, as they emerge from their “whatever” backgrounds, entering adulting and trying to figure things out, God is all they’ve got. And God is faithful as they make their way to Truth.
They are the anawim, in Hebrew, and explained here:
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/column/52385/the-anawim-who-are-they
Frederick Buechner calls this “Godforsaken”. Jesus himself was godforsaken as he fulfilled his mission.
The anawim, as they seek God from the lowliest of places are the closest to God on this Earth. He’s all they’ve got and He is enough. They are fully invested. There are other choices such as substance abuse, etc. However, they choose to seek God completely with the little they have. It is the most complete and noble surrender to God, Who is only worthy, for the highest return on their investment (even though from their lowly place, it’s not a good look).
Headless Unicorn Guy,
iNaturalist… It’s actually a really cool way to incorporate technology into nature.
I’m just going to point out that while a few of Catholic bishops have been indicted, none of them have spent any time in custody. If some SBC bigwig gets indicted, I fully expect the same thing to happen. Some people are just too big and too important to go to prison for what they’ve done.
Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,
Which to me, is one of the most disgusting aspects of all of this…. “To big to fail” in a “Christian” context is beyond words..
The current generation of SBC leaders are the product of the Conservation (aka Calvinist) Resurgence. A key architect of the CR was Judge Paul Pressler, accused for decades of sexual abuse. Surely, others in the CR movement knew this … yet, Judge Pressler was “too big to fail”; he was just too important to the CR movement – they couldn’t risk losing steam if their general failed as the CR army routed those nasty moderates and liberals from the denomination. But, look who turned out to be nasty … hundreds of the CR generation have made the nasty news leading to an DOJ investigation. No individual, no institution is too big to fail.
Ava Aaronson,
I like the quote on your blog: “Lies ride the elevator. Truth takes the stairs & arrives, eventually.” (Hirson Ndayizigiye)
One of my favorites about truth: “Truth is unkillable” (Balthasar Hubmaier)
Is there any doubt why abuse deception in the SBC is being exposed now? Truth is unkillable … it has been taking the stairs and finally arrived. Payday someday is today.
Key architect???
A predator rises to power so he can set up his domain: his hunting ground rich with prey and totally without consequences for predators. MO.
If he happens to be lay, not clergy, then he BFFs the clergy for his inroad. BFFs = donations, powered influence, leveraging community standing. He can facilitate a new green unknown clergy to the top of the community inner circle while he stealthily carves his path to his prey in the church communities.
Church. Church stuff: youth groups, camps, youth rallies, internships, mentoring, concerts, Sunday School, service outings, mission trips – just make sure a lusty-for-younger-ones guy gets to be in charge. The participants are naïve, powerless, and completely voiceless & scared when they are plundered, and for a long time after, maybe forever scared and voiceless. Even when the violated tell, they are punished further with gaslighting, silencing, and ghosting. For church leaders, their life-altering annihilation or tragedy is a nothing-burger, and furthermore, their own fault.
Max,
The irony of all of this is “stranger than fiction”..
This is such great advice and wisdom; it’s discipling the followers of Jesus with what works.
So, I shared: https://wildmustangmall.com/blog/f/from-clutter-to-clarity
Always, if anything isn’t OK, let me know. I can edit.
Thanks again, Max.
And thanks, Dee, for this platform for sharing truth. Kinda upends the go, sit, soak it up, drop your hard-earned $$$, and walk out without saying a word DONT MAKE WAVES paradigm of “church”.
It’s a made-for-TV documentary waiting to happen … a 60-Minutes or 20/20 episode, a sad ending to a once-great denomination (I go waaaaay back).
Absolutely stranger than fiction. Thus one reason why I write fiction, which is still quite shocking but not nearly as shocking as what really goes on.
Polite Society walks around with heads in the sand, and usually a whole lot of resources that could make an impact, but NOOOOOO, would never want to actually make changes! Just pretend. Cosplay and all that good stuff. Plenty of money for elaborate cosplay, which is what Polite Society is all about.
This is how the Holocaust happened. Polite Society. Holocaust scholar Terrence Des Pres notes that there are two institutions that are famously prominent in ritual and cosplay cover while enabling a holocaust: religion or the church AND politics or governments.
Erik Larson’s “In the Garden of Beasts: Love, Terror, and an American Family in Hitler’s Berlin” documents our own US Ambassador caught up in Holocaust cosplay. Our US Ambassador’s daughter dates Hitler, and has an affair with first chief of the Gestapo, Rudolf Diels. She is enthralled by the parties and pomp, and the handsome young men of the Third Reich, with their infectious enthusiasm for restoring Germany to a position of world prominence. Make Germany Great Again.
You are right, Chalmers. Indeed, truth is stranger than fiction.
The Both-And-ism of institutional church. Lives are saved, lives are destroyed.
Ken Burns and Lynn Novick are releasing a Holocaust doc which is an exposé of the USA, both good and evil:
“For Novick, it’s also an inquiry that’s apt to shock many.
“’I think this will be, for the general public, somewhat surprising and a little hard to ingest,’ she says. “’That we could be both the liberators of freeing the world from tyranny and fascism, and unwilling—as Daniel Greene says in the film—to do much to rescue the victims of fascism.’”
https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-ken-burns-is-exposing-americas-evils-during-the-holocaust?ref=home
I look forward to seeing it.
I think that Burns is the best documentary film-maker to come down the pike.
RC Sproul called his conversion experience the “holy rape of the soul.” (He quoted Jonathan Edwards, but Edwards never said or wrote it.) Maybe this type of language contributes to the problem.
https://youtu.be/eQwSC3Dx1Zk
The young reformers idolized Sproul … yeah, I suspect he contributed to their heretical views of God, man, sin, and salvation.
Someone I work with has a story – when she was a child, I think in a trailer park at this time, her Grandpa taught her to yell “Fire” instead of “Help” if anyone tried to grab or molest her. Well, it happened one day, and much of the community came running and had at the jerk. Don’t know if police were also called, but I would hope the man thought twice and three times before trying to grab a little girl again.
Were the doctors were not able to re-attach his testicles after the community was done with him?
Yes, the best. Burns says that this Holocaust doc is his most important of his entire life.
I’m no fan of Sproul, and that’s putting it mildly. But in his own crude way, could he be channeling John Donne?
Talk about a Bad Choice of Words…
Completely disregarding the changes in English (world’s fastest-mutating language) between John Donne’s and/or Jonathan Edwards’ time and his? Back then “rape” also could have meant “to carry off”.
Like that agricultural town in mid-Canada that had to change its motto “Rape Capital of the World” on its city welcome signs — their main crop is the rapeseed plant whose seeds are the source of canola oil. Canola oil, recently renamed from “rapeseed oil” for the same reason.
There’s a lot of that going on in the New Calvinist movement.
As in “plunder.” But that doesn’t make it much better – I don’t know anyone who enjoys being plundered. Still, Sproul was smart enough to know how bad his word choice was.
“The Man PENETRATES! COLONIZES! CONQUERS! PLANTS! The Woman Lies Back and Accepts.”
— The Jerk with the Kirk trying to pull a Rajneeshpuram in Moscow Idaho
… but not smart enough to see that the New Calvinism he advanced was aberrant belief and practice.
“It’s just like rape, but Christian(TM)”
Ughhh…
Keenan was still employed by Bentonville FBC on, and presumably after, August 1, 2022. So Bentonville FBC would like us to believe he was a “former employee” because he was theoretically let go MAYBE 10 days before the allegations were made? I appreciate their effort to spin things, but I’m not buying it. While he was employed at Bellevue the staff knew he was pursuing a relationship with a homeschooled teen girl in his youth group who he eventually married. I’d say there was enough there to raise red flags long before he was caught.
There was enough there to raise red flags for hundreds of SBC “pastors” arrested for sexual abuse … the DOJ investigation will reveal that.
My observation is that authoritarian structure is pair with a concentric circle of trust. One’s trustworthiness in the organization is weighted and valued by the higher authorities.
In SBC, one can by pass the outer layer of trust circle by being a great talker – saying all the right theological lingo that the inner circle loves to hear, by connecting someone in the inner circle, or by volunteering at a linchpin position – we have no youth pastor for x years.
Once you break into the inner circle i.e. earn the trust of people above you, you only answer to people in the inner ring. You do not have to answer the people you serve. Just keep the inner circle happy then you can do a lot of damage and still be trusted and even promote to the next level of trust circle.
No one will trust/listen to the people in the outer trust circle. These people are already deemed less trust worthy than you in the eye of the inner circle/higher authority.
The authority can structural – “pastoral lead”, “elder lead”. It can be a hidden authority hierarchy – think Patterson’s and his worshippers.
Totally ripe for con artists and predators because “less trusted” people will not get a fair hearing if things gone wrong. The predator knows they will be protected by the inner trust circle/higher authorities as long as they are not caught red-handed.
Nope, not stepping back into a SBC church. The current church environment enforces blind trust/obedience to human authority, and stifles the individual growth of spiritual judgement on people and things – soul competency. “Soul Competency” is the God given check and balance (if I remember correctly, CR almost successfully took that out in the BFM)
John Berry,
I can only think that something desperately broken in Mr. Hord. I’m sure his wife and family are devastated. Let’s pray for them and the victims of abuse.