Andromeda-NASA
“I didn’t go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of Port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don’t recommend Christianity.”― C.S. Lewis
Years ago, I was in a group of typical evangelical women. The topic of Catholic clergy abuse came up. The women, in typical fashion, said something to the effect of “They abuse children because they can’t get married.” I couldn’t contain myself. I said, to their shock, ” A normal priest, who wants to break his vows, doesn’t say “Gee, I want to have sex. I need to find myself a 5-year-old child. He finds himself a consenting adult” I then explained that the priests who abuse children are pedophiles, just like the married pastor/preachers of the Protestant type who abuse children. They huffed and puffed, seemingly refusing to believe that their favorite pastors would participate in such activities.
My friend, Eric Bonetti runs Anglican Watch and you can read about him here. I was impressed with his interview with Fr Mark. Today, there was much going on behind the scenes with Julie’s story, as well as ACBC, who posted a disturbing article on schizophrenia. I will be discussing this soon. I may have some news on Julie in the near future. So, I’m punting this evening and featuring Eric’s interview.
I start his interview and then link you to the post on Anglican Watch so you can see what is going on over there.
Eric.: We recently had the opportunity to interview Fr. Mark White, the Catholic priest who has been suspended from parish ministry due to his criticism of the church’s handling of sexual abuse. Here are our questions and his responses. We believe his thoughts are important to all who are concerned about abuse in the church, both sexual and non-sexual, and hope that persons of conscience can provide him with support and encouragement during this difficult time. His excellent blog is here.
- My understanding is that the Vatican has essentially taken a pass on your complaint. Where does this leave you? How do you spend your days? And what are your next steps?
Yes, it appears that the Vatican will let Bishop Knestout’s decisions stand. This leaves me suspended from public ministry indefinitely, for no good reason. I continue to celebrate Mass and the Divine Office, with the good Lord and the denizens of heaven for company.
Since it appears that this strange situation will likely stretch on, I have been busy lately trying to set up a long-term place to live. Once I get that settled, I will return to writing daily, which seems to be the ministry that divine Providence is giving me at this point.
- The public has read your story with interest. From your perspective, what is the biggest issue in your dispute with the church?
I think there are two inseparable issues involved in my case. One, honest accountability regarding sex-abuse cover-ups. Two, freedom of speech regarding Topic 1.
- Is the larger issue perhaps with power, and how it is used in the church, versus the still appalling issues with sexual abuse?I think that sex abuse by clergy, especially bishops, and episcopal abuse of power are two sides of the same evil coin. According to my limited understanding of it, clergy sex-abuse does damage, above all, by abusing the sublime power of the sacerdotal office. The abuse wounds the victim’s most-important relationship—with God. The wound comes not solely, or even primarily, through the physical violation of the body, but by the manipulation—and crushing distortion—of the victim’s interior religion. Clerical abuse of power—even when no sex is involved—does the same damage, in the same deep region of the soul.
- How do you respond to those who say you should have just stayed quiet and let things sort themselves out?
I have lived through enough cycles of the recurring Catholic sex-abuse scandal to know that the problem will never “sort itself out.” Rule by self-interested Mafiosi never ends on its own. People who want a better kind of society have to take risks, make powerful enemies, and seek the truth no matter what it costs. The Catholic Church, considered as a human society, is a community ruled by self-interested Mafiosi, at this point in time.
“People who want a better kind of society have to take risks, make powerful enemies, and seek the truth no matter what it costs.” – Fr. Mark White, interviewed by Eric Bonetti, Anglican Watch.
Case in point, the journey of Dee et al with TWW.
The Vatican as Mafioso… I love it! Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Rule by self-interested Mafiosi never ends on its own….
Interesting quote…. the unfortunate story of the human condition….
. and, I have a deeper appreciation, after the last 6 -9 months, of all the checks and balances that are built into the US Federal and State government… including how States run their own elections including the office of the President..
Heck, if the Roman Catholic Church, AND Protestants, can not be trusted to protect little children, but instead immediately try to cover it a$$, all human organizations need independent oversight, checks and balances..
D’ya think?
Moreover, the church itself is/should be be a body of independent thinkers/souls all reporting to God Himself, it seems. Jesus eliminated middlemen & then delivered the HS to make this possible.
Familiar names are back: https://julieroys.com/greear-church-investigation-loritts/
I appreciate what you are trying to do on this topic. I think everyone would be better informed if they went to the “Richard Sipe: Priests, Sexuality & Celibacy” website. He is a man who studied these issues in the RCC. It’s pretty complex and quite eye-opening.
Elder at 9Marks/Founders church in Florida arrested for internet crimes against children:
https://www.wesh.com/article/embry-riddle-professor-child-porn-arrest/35153096
Teaching Pastor Scott Menez puts out video proclaiming “transparency” to congregants, but hammers away that
• it was a nonvocational elder
• a lay elder, not paid
• he mainly worked with seniors here at the church
• we haven’t heard his side yet
• social media bad
and other stuff like that:
https://www.riverbendchurch.com/sermons/sermon/2021-01-06/statement-on-john-griffin
From the interview: “Abuse of power is really the only thing holding the Catholic Church together right now… Intellectual or spiritual laziness, or fear of having to face difficult spiritual realities alone, currently binds Catholics together with hierarchy – not honest religion or real Christian communion.”
Later, “We are living through a period of Christian history when the institutions are deeply compromised. Living peacefully in them is no sight of virtue, in itself. Quite the contrary.”
Ouch.
Wild Honey,
Yup…. No wonder the “hierarchy” has “isolated” him… He is quite courageous…
some might say he is foolish to speak the way he does; however, speaking up/defending little children from abuse by Priests is a hill worth dying on..
. my church Bible study last night focused on Philippians 2, 5-11…. While I am not big into going around quoting Bible verses at people /situations, I think it is very appropriate for all the church abuse here on TWW….
Very good insight into how the church should be operating.
If nothing else the Catholic hierarchy made an example out of someone speaking out and questioning and the expected consequences. Sadly this example will probably keep others from speaking out when they should.
This speaking out and questioning is handled a different way within the Evangelical Industrial Complex (EIC) since its not one large authoritarian organization with power coming down from the Pope. What they do in the EIC is cut off book endorsements, speaking engagements, etc. which hurts in a person’s pocket book.
Both have the same affect of suppressing questioning, dissent etc.
And in particular congregations, if you dissent from the party line (like maybe, just maybe, John Piper is not such a great role model whose writings should be quoted on the church bulletin every week), you will never end up on the Session of the church or the Deacon Council or the Board of Women. But this will never be revealed to you as the reason for your exclusion.
Slight tangent: Prof Pete of Pepperdine (as I like to call him) explains why churches, businesses, etc. rarely issue real apologies. Peter Robinson, Straus Institute on Dispute Resolution writes on Mediation, Apology, Repentance
“mainly” worked with seniors, huh?
but on page they’ve scrubbed from the church’s Christian School website:
John Griffin: “I have the pleasure of teaching Old Testament Survey to the seventh and eighth grades at Riverbend Academy.”
https://web.archive.org/web/20160703110428/http://riverbendacademy.org/christ-centered-biblical-perspectives/post/gods-providence
Steve240,
Don’t forget also attempting to “smear” people…. look how the “big wigs” attempt to smear Dee, and other whistle blowers..
John MacArthur was sure a “loving example” to Beth Moore..
quotes from local newspaper article:
1-7-21 Daytona Beach News-Journal: pastor arrested had plans to foster children
“Griffin had recently asked the agency to reinstate him and his wife as foster parents for children and infants, his arrest report states.”
“Riverbend Community Church, where Griffin was a pastor, said Thursday in a statement that…Griffin had teaching responsibilities in various senior adult ministries and ‘was not in a position over any of our children’s activities'”
“Griffin, who was arrested at his home, asked his wife to forgive him as police led him away in handcuffs, his arrest report stated”
besides teaching at the church’s Christian school, Griffin had a foot rub ministry [?] at the church:
the “Other Ministries” page on church’s website no longer has this:
“SOLE-SAVERS
Provides foot-care (pedicure, massage, etc)…Contact: John & Faye Griffin”
archived church announcements emails:
https://myemail.constantcontact.com/The-Latest—-From-Riverbend.html?soid=1106819488011&aid=pf6ku_IE4NE
[scroll down]
“‘Happy Feet’
Your feet will smile and be happier when you take them for a free pedicure at Sole-Savers on Saturday, April 21. Stop by the Youth Center during 8:30-11:30 a.m. and relax while your feet receive some royal treatment”
http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs170/1106819488011/archive/1124840802979.html
[scroll down]
“Several Riverbend ministries will combine forces on Monday, June 6, in serving the residents of WARM (Women Assisting Recovering Mothers) at the Vince Carter Sanctuary (301 Justice Lane) in Bunnell. During 6-8 p.m., the ministries Sole-Savers, Be Renewed, Sarah’s Circle and Childcare will collaborate in pampering the 65-70 residents (plus 25 children) in the form of pedicures and Christian fellowship.”
[also note the photo at top of last email above, caption: “Watching the NAIA World Series in Lewiston, Idaho, are (from left)…Riverbend Senior Pastor Scott Menez and Dr. John MacArthur, Pastor at Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, Calif…Dr. MacArthur, a friend of the Menez family, also serves as President of Master’s College.”]
more:
https://www.riverbendchurch.com/links
“Church Finder
Founders
Reformed Baptist Church Directory
Reformed Church Finder
Reformed Reader
Bible Bulletin Board
Mountain Retreat
9Marks
The Gospel Coalition
Florida Reformed Baptist Churches
Blogs
Al Mohler
Alpha and Omega
David Platt
Desiring God (John Piper)
Grace to You (John MacArthur)
Paul Tripp
The Gospel Coalition
Tim Challies
Sermons
Dr. Roy Hargrave
Grace to You”
Ah, the Founders and published perspectives on abuse like “true biblical manhood is part of the solution to sexual abuse”,
http://thewartburgwatch.com/2019/06/22/sbc-executive-committee-member-rod-d-martin-goes-on-the-attack-on-twitter-defending-the-founders-causing-concern-amongst-abuse-survivors/comment-page-1/#comment-405547
Links and chains?
Wonder if the top-down authoritarian how does it work on by youths in this context. Wonder where the “25 children” fit into the situation, and wonder if the investigation will cover that.
Another apparent trend in the industrial complex, label whatever you want to get done or have fulfilled a “ministry“. You might be working out a hobby (or a fetish), but it can be allowed and even encouraged under that umbrella
“Reinstate” implies a past
Appears to minimize the whole point that the guy had the “elder” imprimatur (sic) and the top-down autocratic benefits that appear to mark 9Marks eldership.
And yet, the way they handle abuse cases and their evident dodging of accountability, transparency, and oversight doesn’t stop them from casting themselves as good moral influences on even larger projects involving just about everyone:
“VATICAN — the moral guidance of His Holiness Pope Francis (remarkable capitalization of the pronoun) and his delegate, Cardinal Peter Turkson, the Holy See inspires the moral imperatives of all faiths”:
https://www.inclusivecapitalism.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/INCLUSIVE-CAPITALISM-COMMUNITY.jpg
I can barely keep u0 with this information. I have just heard about two other churches involved in abuse. I am trying to write about ACBC and the tie in to SBTS. In the meantime, Cross Walk is involved in cleaning up their website and I think I know why. Next week, Julie’s story is getting out and I’ll keep you all posted.
Jerome,
Good night! Do you remember writing about the pastor in South Carolina who was doing this and got arrested for sex abuse since he had a foot fetish? I couldn’t believe it then. Now this? Is this weird or what?
You and me both… 🙂
I remembered the story (or a similar one), but could not remember the person (or people) involved.
http://thewartburgwatch.com/2018/06/29/tates-creek-presbyterian-church-demonstrates-how-to-handle-accusations-of-sexual-abuse-yes-a-foot-fetish-is-a-form-of-sexual-abuse/
I read the archived article. The “thoughts” expressed in the article can be twisted (in the Scripture-twisting sense) in so many different ways.
Perhaps it is a good thing that John Griffen is no longer teaching children Old Testament Survey.
(and hopefully John Griffen is not allowed to teach anyone ANY Biblical subjects).
Thanks for the link. 🙂
From the article Anglican Watch Exclusive: Interview With Fr. Mark White, the link to which Dee provided in her opening post.
Many “churches” (and some churches) put far too little emphasis on the phrases: But ordination does NOT give personal holiness to the ordained. and A criminal clergyman deserves the same prosecution and punishment as any other criminal.
And many “churches” twist the phrase: The ordained person remains a sinful human being like everyone else, needs grace like everyone else, and is as capable of committing a crime as anyone else is.
(which frequently leads to sin-levelling and cheap grace, rather than prosecution)
researcher,
A further complication is that the “product” that many “preachers” are selling is that you will be “more holly”. ( think 9 Marks rules) if you follow my “way”… so, to make sure the “product” is real, they need to hide the misdeeds of preacher so pew peons do not realize the product is false…
Jeffrey J Chalmers,
We are passionate about crafting and curating your product from our designer outlet church.
Ezekiel 8 keeps coming to mind … “Do you see what the elders do in the dark? … they say ‘The Lord does not see us’.”
Oh, He sees you … payday someday.
Do you have the link?
With a culture of Augustines theology and a classic case of blue balls, sadly bad is invariably bound to happen…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8NV2es3nGY
Interesting you should mention Augustine, some Eastern Orthodox place him early in the Roman trend of making sacraments especially ordination, too important, and flattering the Donatists as a diversion.