Silver.

My own church has canceled services for Sunday and will be doing church online.

Please stay well and safe.

Personally am very frustrated because as a Doc, I can’t test my patients for the virus (only those sick enough to get hospitalized currently get tested in our state unless they’ve been exposed to a known case or traveled to 1 of the listed countries in the last 14 days). So I am sure there are many of the (80% of) “milder” cases in the community spreading it to the vulnerable population because we don’t have the capability of testing. Can we convince people to stay home for 2 wks for any respiratory illness? Seriously doubt it. One of my partners recently had a patient come in who went grocery shopping with a 103 deg. fever… (hello, common sense???)
Anyway, keep up that handwashing!!

Jeffrey Chalmers,

PS… some of us saw this coming since it first started in China…. One of my grad students lost a distant cousin, and had a uncle get it also, but got over it…. she is from Wuhan…

These versus came to mind (KJV): Proverbs 14:26; 29:25. Romans 13:3-4.

The following are risk factors for the virus:

1) Age — folks over sixty need to be cautious

2) Smoking — in China men were 95% of the fatalities, and men in China smoke incessantly. While weed smoking isn’t an issue in China, it is legal in Canada, and many US states, and the guess is it would have the same effect as tobacco, reducing lung function

3) Obesity — it puts stress on your lungs

4) Asthma and Allergies — both reduce lung function

5) Heavy alcohol use — reduces immune function

6) Reduced immune function — can be caused by a variety of issues such as transplants

7) History of pneumonia

8) Reduced lung function — can be caused by a variety of issues such as second hand smoke, scoliosis (one lung is usually compressed), etc.

This list is from Stat, a medical website, and is based on the studies from China and Korea which have been published, along with informed speculation by the medical community on what impacts we will see in North America. Smoking is less of an issue here, but obesity is.

My church has cancelled Sunday services for the next two weeks. Youth group meetings have been suspended indefinitely. Public schools in much of the area, including the county where I live, are closed until mid-April. Aldi and Giant were cleaned out of toilet paper yesterday, though I found some at Target.

The NCAA basketball tournament may have been cancelled, but we’re now experiencing a different kind of March Madness. Kyrie eleison.

We’re self quarintined due to potential exposure of someone living with us… Except our child still has to go to school. Crazy. Hoping sanity prevails and it goes online soon. I’m working from home 2 weeks at minimum.

Meanwhile, the T4G Conference must go on! Lots of money involved, don’t you know.

I am quite certain it will eventually be cancelled and Christendom will somehow miraculously continue.

https://t4g.org/update/

Samuel Conner: I hope that the churches excel.

But I know a lot of them won’t.

Nancy2(aka Kevlar): On the light side …… toilet paper, toilet paper, OMG, toilet paper!!!

One doc from East London commented on “toilet paper wars” videos on YouTube.

@Leah Jacobs

There is a group on Facebook called caring for Elderly Parents. They are very good and the people there are dealing with different situations regarding their loved ones. It’s a place to get advice and support and sometimes to vent. It is mostly Americans but other nationalities like myself are on there. Some are Christian’s but it us not a faith based group. The thing that binds us is caring for a loved one. Just a thought.

I am concerned that the cure will be worse than the disease in how it impacts our culture and economy. For example, strict travel bans will mean the travel industry will not be able to remain solvent, which will result in layoffs bankruptcies, etc. Similar for companies producing necessary supplies such as food, medical supplies, TP, etc., if they are forced to scale back production. It’s not clear to me that we are headed toward the right balance.

Brian: Another thought; Christian churches may be the wrong thing to do. Times of crisis cause people to look for emotional and spiritual support. Where do they go if a church has closed up? The love and support of a congregation is being kept from them.

When my church announced a closure for a couple of weeks, I stopped feeling guilty about skipping Sunday service. And I go to a church that never bullies people to attend. This week I received a little pastoral care by email. Phone and text work too, for now.

Many of our “faith leaders” are basically ordering people to show up. Intimidating their members.

Forced church attendance caused losses of life during the 1918 flu: “In the deeply pious Spanish city of Zamora, for example, the local bishop defied the health authorities by ordering a novena – evening prayers on nine consecutive days – in honour of Saint Rocco, the patron saint of plague and pestilence. This involved churchgoers lining up to kiss the saint’s relics, around the time that the outbreak peaked. Zamora went on to record the highest flu-related death rate of any city in Spain, and one of the highest in Europe.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/11/closed-borders-and-black-weddings-what-the-1918-flu-teaches-us-about-coronavirus

Leah Jacobs,

You are on my prayer agenda.

—

Just got off the phone with elderly friends for whom I will be shopping in order to allow them to avoid coming into contact with possibly asymptomatic but infectious people in the shops. I’ll go at odd hours when there are few people in the shops (there is a local 24 hr WalMart).

Some practical suggestions:

* make a list of every contact with people that you have over the course of a typical month. Envision and implement ways to reduce the frequency of these contacts. In some cases, it may be possible to eliminate these contacts altogether. This “social distancing” is for one’s own benefit and for the benefit of others, to slow the transmission rate. It is an expression of “love of neighbour”, including neighbours whom you will never meet but who will survive the epidemic in part because of your contribution to slowing the transmission rate.

* Also list every interaction with objects that may have come into contact with infected people. This might seem like an over-the top concern, but there is evidence that the virus can persist on surfaces for days. Hopefully as the weather warms, this persistence time will become shorter, but that is not known yet.

Frequent handwashing can reduce the risk of infection from contaminated objects. Wash thoroughly. Here is the WHO recommended hand-washing protocol:

https://www.who.int/gpsc/clean_hands_protection/en/

This is a bit more involved than the “20 seconds” procedure you may have heard on the news.

you’ll want to have disposable paper with you to use in the final step.

(A hopeful aside — I read in an online forum that the annual flu epidemic in Hong Kong became noticeably shorter after the SARS epidemic than it had been previously. The anti-virus hygiene measures that protected against SARS transmission also protected against flu transmission. It is protective against all respiratory virus transmission. This works. Do it.)

An example of both types interaction (people and objects): this couple drives to the local City Hall once a month to pay their utilities bill at a “drive thru” type window with a bank-style drawer for presenting papers. The worker who handles these payments may not be well socially-distanced him/herself and could be infected. Also, that worker handles large amounts of paper from other people who may be infected, and while City Hall will certainly provide some protective gear (gloves), that will not prevent the gloves from becoming contaminated and that spreading to other papers and receipts. The drawer itself will probably be exposed to numerous infected people in coming months and may become contaminated with virus.

They could avoid this scenario by paying the utility bill electronically, assuming that the payments department has enabled this (which I will research for my own use too). If this is possible, they can enable their bank account to make e-payments (perhaps best to do this with a 2nd account that maintains a small balance just enough to cover the planned payments — this will ease concerns about possible mishaps or fraud against the e-payments account)

* get a stylus to use with the touch pads in the shops. If possible get one that has a cap over the part that contacts the touch pad. That contact point may become contaminated and if it can be covered when not in use, that would be best. If you are able to make shop payments via “plastic”, that might be preferable to handling cash that has been handled by others. Get or make a sleeve to hold the card when not in use; the inside of this sleeve may become contaminated with virus, but having the card in the sleeve may prevent contamination of your wallet while the virus degrades over time.

Stay well all, and be kind to neighbours. We are all fighting a very hard battle now.

GuyBehindtheCurtain: deaths of the elderly and lung impaired

Confirmed by Dr. Michael Osterholm, epidemiologist specializing in the study of infectious diseases: high percentage of deaths in China were age 70+ male smokers (men commonly smoke there, women don’t). He says in the US the variable will be obesity – much more common here than smoking. He said 45% of of US population becomes obese while aging.

Osterholm’s interviews are packed with information.

GuyBehindtheCurtain,

You are consistent, in general, with what I know….. many of us knew we were in for a problem when the virus originated, they think, in a wild meat market….. Epidemiologist have been predicting this type of senario for years, right down to potential lack of ventilators… I need to stop or I will be put in moderation…

Samuel Conner: “which evil is lesser, and therefore to be preferred”

This is the $1M question. In so many cases errors come in polar opposite pairs. Too little quarantine effort is clearly a problem. I suspect too much is equally a problem, but with a different set of terrible consequences.

It’s already nearly impossible to find the needed paper products, sanitizers, and cleaning supplies needed to follow the protocols. If the supply chain does not catch up soon it could be a disaster. We should all hope that the manufacturing, distribution, and point of sale employees are not staying home from work. Also, what will be the impact of having so many of our products made in China? Have we seen those impacts yet?

Brian: The love and support of a congregation is being kept from them.

As well as the coronavirus. I understand what you are saying, but it is prudent to restrict such gatherings right now. A lot of older folks go to church regularly, and they are the most at risk. “The wise see danger ahead and avoid it, but fools keep going and get into trouble.” (Proverbs 22:3)

On the other hand, when things get desperate enough in America, it would be great to see millions of Christians going to church to humble themselves, pray, repent, and seek God’s face (instead of business as usual). We’re not there yet.

Ava Aaronson: The NCAA basketball tournament … cancelled

Now, I’m really mad!!

Nick Bulbeck: An odd consequence of the virus is that it has almost supernaturally prevented Liverpool from winning the Premier League. Just when it seemed that our unprecedentedly runaway title triumph was unstoppable, a global catastrophe intervened and caused the entire season to be abandoned with us only two wins from the title.

Now you know who God was rooting for 🙂

Ken F (aka Tweed): Also, what will be the impact of having so many of our products made in China? Have we seen those impacts yet?

Yes. Supply chain efficiency generally comes with the risk of brittleness and multiple points of failure. Multiple redundant suppliers, located domestically, is less efficient but much more resilient.

I hope that we are able to import substitute. Perhaps Chinese production engineers can remotely advise local manufacturing startups.

Who knows, maybe we’ll even re-onshore the production of machine tools. Those were among the first capabilities to be lost in the decades after WWII.

—

The risk-modelers and the “share price at all cost” corporate managers have not served us well. One hopes that whatever emerges from this crisis will be more robust and better able to weather this kind of thing in future. Of course, if it takes another century for a similar event to arise, our successors will probably let their guard down, just as we did as the Spanish flu pandemic passed out of living memory.

—

Regarding paper products, I am starting today to reserve my modest TP supply and will be using newsprint where possible. This, of course, cannot be flushed, but neither can baby diapers, and will end up in the same place. Hmmm… diapers. Now that’s a messy supply chain interruption.

This is a slightly bizarre thought, but some might find it useful. Back during the Y2K scare, I stocked a couple of gallons of vegetable oil, as it contains ~30,000 calories per gallon. On a per calorie basis, it is cheaper than practically any carb. I still have that oil — it doesn’t spoil in its sealed containers — but it is not the most beneficial kind (I stocked corn oil). I think that canola may be healthier, and olive best of all (and even olive oil is not outrageously priced when computed on a per calorie basis).

I’m not bunkered — am social distancing to stay well so that I can help vulnerable neighbours.

This is why the churches need to close NOW. They will be worse than useless for “love of neighbor” if they continue to meet. There may be thousands of new cases transmitted in the meetings that take place tomorrow. Close NOW!

I just got an email from my daughter asking if my will is up to date..

Max,

Everyone has to give up something.

Ava Aaronson: humble themselves, pray, repent, and seek God’s face

All of the above can happen without the building & the crowd. Maybe preferably.

Indeed! Let it be.

GuyBehindtheCurtain: Does no one here know about cobs?

Don’t get us country folks going on red vs. white corn cobs.

GuyBehindtheCurtain: Does no one here know about cobs? And where the phrase “rougher than a cob” comes from?

I don’t mean to go all “European” on everyone, but I have read recently that there is something to be said in favor of handheld bidets. Research these before leaping. It’s an unfamiliar form of personal hygiene.

Samuel Conner,
readingalong,
Friend,
++++++++++++++++++++++++

i need advice:

i teach music one-on-one in my home. i disinfect the instrument before very lesson. i can also ask each student to wash their hands before each lesson.

what are you thoughts on continuing on with lessons or cancelling them for timebeing?

(it will mean zero income. it will make things very difficult financially.)

but i want to do what is prudent.

P.S. Go to YouTube and search “toilet paper fights” or “coronavirus toilet paper fight” for viral videos of supermarket showdowns.
“READY, SET, FLUSH!”

Headless Unicorn Guy:
P.S. Go to YouTube and search “toilet paper fights” or “coronavirus toilet paper fight” for viral videos of supermarket showdowns.
“READY, SET, FLUSH!”

Perhaps we should make a run on toilet plungers?

GuyBehindtheCurtain: Does no one here know about cobs? And where the phrase “rougher than a cob” comes from?

Well GBTC, if your supply is getting low, we have one of those old hand-crank corn shellers you can borrow.
I have plenty of tree leaves – they are much easier on, uh, sensitive skin.

Most corn gets machine shelled in the field nowadays. The cobs get plowed under. Two adolescent farmers’ sons saw our corn sheller last fall and asked us what “that thing” was. …… Worked out well ….. we got some corn shelled, and the boys enjoyed it!

My daughter use to keep toilet paper in a coffee can in the horse’s stable. She didn’t want to have to come back to the house if she had to “go”. I laughed at her and called her a sissy. —- made her angry, but she didn’t give up her CCC (coffee can Charmin).

Samuel Conner: Bethelehem Baptist has cancelled the next 3 meetings

It’s business as usual at Robert Jeffress’ First Baptist in Dallas. It’s BOOK SIGNING DAY, doncha know!!!

Ken F (aka Tweed): Perhaps we should make a run on toilet plungers?

Hadn’t thought about that! I’m running to WallyWorld right now! I’ll “clean them out” and sell them on ebay for $100 apiece.

Nancy2(aka Kevlar): It’s BOOK SIGNING DAY, doncha know!!!

“Police in in Westerley, Rhode Island announced Friday that one of the two children in the town who had been recently diagnosed with coronavirus got an autograph from an NBA player on March 6.”

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/coronavirus-and-the-nba-child-tests-positive-for-covid-19-after-getting-autographs-at-jazz-vs-celtics-game/

dee,

thank you, dee. i totally appreciate your reply.

elastigirl,

This doesn’t exactly apply, but maybe some ideas for you? My local hair salon has new policies:

-Employees must stay home if they feel unwell.

-Please don’t come to appointments if you are sick.

-No financial penalty (or guilt trip) for late cancellations and no-shows.

-Chairs and sinks disinfected after every client.

-Reception areas cleaned hourly, on the hour.

-Whole salon deep cleaned daily.

My favorite restaurant has added a commitment to limit service (go to delivery only or close down temporarily) if that becomes necessary.

elastigirl,

This is very difficult.

How well social-distanced are the students?

This is also a probably concern for the students’ parents, since you are a contact point between families.

What instruments — could the lessons be conducted out of doors?

Also, could students bring their own instruments (if portable — obviously piano does not work this way)

Could students don disposable gloves during the lesson — after the lesson toss used pairs into a lined bin for “biohazards”. Nitrile or vinyl gloves can be had for small money per pair from outlets such as Harbor Freight Tools. They are out of masks and respirators in my locality but still have plenty of gloves.

Any chance the lessons could be conducted remotely — via SKYPE or similar (sounds crazy, but if the instruments have defined tone, like piano, you are less concerned with tone than with timing and expression. Aim the students’ webcam at their hands so you can evaluate their technique)

One possibility might be to temporarily pause lessons until testing becomes widespread so that you can be more confident that neither you nor your students or their families are infected but asymptomatic.

Unfortunately, one of the consequences of the colossal mess-up earlier this year, and ongoingly, in terms of testing capability is that there is very little confidence one can have that the disease is not present in one’s local community.

I believe that our national leaders are going to be compelled to implement a zero cost testing regime. Testing is much less useful if many people who need to be tested can’t afford it.

You are on my prayer agenda.

————-

This is an illustration of the kinds of disruptions that Ken F has been expressing concerns over. It’s going to ripple through all of our lives. We’re going to need aggressive 1930s style interventions to keep things running.

Friend: My favorite restaurant has added a commitment to limit service (go to delivery only or close down temporarily) if that becomes necessary.

Our bank has requested customers to use the drive-through for all transactions when possible. The local WalMart is getting ready to section-off part of their parking lot for drive-through coronavirus testing. One of our favorite restaurants is a Chinese buffet place – folks are starting to “social distance” it now … I feel bad for the owners.

Samuel Conner,

thank you, Samuel.

socially distanced? hmmm…public school, home school, sports, their own siblings

it’s a piano (darn, did i just compromise my anonymity?)

gloves would not work.

skype…. i could look into it.

thank you again, Samuel.

Someone commented that they don’t understand what the coronavirus concern is for our State, since only 2 cases have been confirmed here. I reminded them that the huge flock of starlings invading their bird feeders each day started with a single sighting of the species in our State less than 100 years ago.

Friend: “Police in in Westerley, Rhode Island announced Friday that one of the two children in the town who had been recently diagnosed with coronavirus got an autograph from an NBA player on March 6.”

Was this the same player who single-handedly shut down the NBA for the duration?

You know; the Jazz guy who was clowning around at a post-game interview making a point of touching and rubbing against the microphones and cameras, reporters, and his teammates in the locker room? The day before he was diagnosed and confirmed?

Max:
Someone commented that they don’t understand what the coronavirus concern is for our State, since only 2 cases have been confirmed here.I reminded them that the huge flock of starlings invading their bird feeders each day started with a single sighting of the species in our State less than 100 years ago.

Think of it as a flock (of unknown size) of invisible starlings already present, and one by one they lose their invisibility as they are detected. The problem is that there is a shortage of “starling detection kits”.

“Unfortunately, one of the consequences of the colossal mess-up earlier this year, and ongoingly, in terms of testing capability is that there is very little confidence one can have that the disease is not present in one’s local community. “

Nancy2(aka Kevlar):
Ken F (aka Tweed),

Funny!!
Ah, long gone are the days of old newspapers and tree leaves, huh?

As long as you don’t use poison ivy leaves. I’ve heard several funny-as-long-as-you’re-not-the-guy stories about that.

Bonus from my grade-school days in the First 1960s:

“Stranded!
Stranded on the toilet bowl!
What do you do when you’re stranded
Without no roll?
Gotta prove you’re a man —
Gotta use your hand!

“Wherever you go
For the rest of your life
You must prove —
You used your hand!”

elastigirl,

Zoom may be another possibility, and I believe it is free for small classes. I know someone who uses this for live teleconferencing and likes it.

https://zoom.us/pricing

A drawback is that the current servers supporting it may become overburdened as others migrate to “distance meeting” and “distance learning”. I hope they can upgrade their capacity.

We are running into capacity limits everywhere. “In a crisis, all correlations go to unity”

You are in my prayers.

Headless Unicorn Guy: Was this the same player who single-handedly shut down the NBA for the duration?

Yes. He instantly shut down the NHL too, since they share many arenas.

Both leagues would have suspended their seasons anyway. The previous day, one mayor declared a state of emergency and limited public gatherings. Their local pro sports team’s ownership had a gigantic hissy and played their scheduled game. It’s better for organizations to make hard, prudent decisions before they either spread contagion or inspire the government to shut them down.

Samuel Conner: Rapidly yank the handle straight up.

Repeat these steps.

Do I have to do this now, or can I wait till the toilet is actually clogged? 😉

Just heard this one:

“Mommy! Mommy! When is this coronavirus going to be over?”

“Shut up and eat your toilet paper!”

Headless Unicorn Guy: roomie

Roomie better?

Julie,

Regarding HUG’s comment about holy testosterone, the T4G conference and petri dishes.

Friend: Roomie better?

Yeah. He’s been out of the hospital for a little over a week, building his strength and weight back. (The day he got home – after two weeks of hospital food – he “called in a pizza mission”.) His diabetes is now completely under control, and it seems to have cleared up his skin condition.

Some thoughts from someone I know well: https://www.newschannel5.com/news/are-you-stressing-about-the-coronavirus-the-stock-market-tornadoes-read-this

Todd Wilhelm: Meanwhile, the T4G Conference must go on!

Great news! Let’s encourage the New Calvinists to congregate in crowds and to sit as closely as possible to each other.

Luckyforward: thoughts

That was an excellent read, thanks!

And I’ve just realized what my husband is doing the past few days. Every time he comes in from outdoors, he brings me an acorn.

He’s trying to cheer me up, sort of like a five-year-old.

I have completely fallen for this, admiring the newest acorn, comparing it to the others, adding it to the growing pile.

He’s way more cunning than I thought.

Luckyforward,

Channel 5 in Nashville, Tennessee is my go-to station for news and weather.
Have you seen the videos of tornado damage from Nashville to Cookville? Heartbreaking. I have been in several of the places that were….. just absolutely demolished.
Tennessee needs a lot more than toilet paper, and a lot more than “prayers”.

GuyBehindtheCurtain: What makes you think I haven’t already [commented as an alter-ego]?

😉

I can’t be certain about this, as obviously not everyone thinks the same as I do. But my alter-egos are all designed as obvious sock-puppets, and none of them pushes an agenda or viewpoint other than the narrow ones necessary to support each comedic premise. Your statement that “I rarely comment here…” didn’t seem to contain the kind of surreptitious wink that I’d expect a regular alter-egotist to use. But, as I say, that’s only a hypothesis!

Nick Bulbeck,

Though if I suddenly acquire a strange new alter-ego, which the Lord did not command but which shares my avatar, I’ll form a new hypothesis…

Headless Unicorn Guy: To me it seems his comments-becoming-sermons have been getting weirder and weirder over the past month or two. Has anyone else noticed this?

Yes. If god is trying to target “The Church” he seems to have very poor aim.

elastigirl: i teach music one-on-one in my home.

IMO, safer to hold off on in-person lessons right now, knowing though that it could be several months…In addition to hands, you have to worry about respiratory droplets in a relatively enclosed space, and presumably your students are still young and in the age group most likely to have mild symptoms so to easily spread the disease (and chance of being contagious just before symptoms start as well).
We went out hiking today, thinking that at least outdoors any infected droplets will still be fairly dispersed, but from the unusual number of people we saw today (even after it started hailing), a lot of others were thinking the same thing!

But on-line (skype-type) lessons could be a workable idea. A local yoga studio is now offering that as an option for those either vulnerable or worried.

Headless Unicorn Guy: To me it seems his comments-becoming-sermons have been getting weirder and weirder over the past month or two. Has anyone else noticed this?

Bah. The comments-becoming-sermons are probably as close as any of you church-dodgers come to actually hearing a sermon.

You’re all rubbish.

Up yours,

Roger Bombast

One is relieved to note that some of the megas are acting responsibly:

https://slate.com/human-interest/2020/03/its-a-big-deal-that-megachurches-like-crossroads-church-are-canceling-live-services.html

Samuel Conner: The risk-modelers and the “share price at all cost” corporate managers have not served us well.

I was so glad to hear that Jack Welch of GE died a couple of weeks ago. He did a lot of damage to our economy and I am not sad to know he’s gone.

Ken F (aka Tweed),

I went to the store today and felt guilty about my candy bars, until I saw the guy with two cases of Coors in his cart.

Nick Bulbeck,

Deuterium has even more if you can meet the Lawson criterion. But good luck with that, at least using current technology.

elastigirl: i teach music one-on-one in my home. i disinfect the instrument before very lesson. i can also ask each student to wash their hands before each lesson.

what are you thoughts on continuing on with lessons or cancelling them for timebeing?

I took viola lessons by Skype for awhile, and it worked surprisingly well.

Pretty much everything has shut down here. I won’t be working the next two weeks, at least. Going to spring clean the house, plant my garden, and catch up on a few sewing projects. I also started a new hobby of flower pressing and journaling.

I had been going to church online for awhile anyway, so that won’t be a change for me.

Ken F (aka Tweed): Coors? Wow! It’s more desperate than I thought. That is stuff is not really drinkable except in extreme emergencies.

Given the toilet paper crisis, maybe he got it to use in his hand-held bidet.

GuyBehindtheCurtain: If you can do it we’ll give you free access to this site for a month.

If it means I can edit my really embarrassing HTML-tag clangers, it’ll be worth it.

Samuel Conner: But the surprising thing was that the “stool”, which was simply a long ropy cord of gelled laxative, was dark green . It was loaded with bile.

Are you sure it wasn’t The Alien?

Nick Bulbeck: comments on the coronavirus in Wartburg have more than doubled in the past 24 hours.

Does the TW in TWW stand for telework?

Brian: I’m not endorsing forced attendance. During the Middle Ages, the spread of the black death, people fled the cities. It was the Christians who stayed and took care of the sick.

I apologize, Brian. I didn’t mean that you were endorsing forced attendance. Here’s a thoughtful piece about people missing worship: https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2020/03/13/millions-americans-no-church-sunday-is-coronaviruss-cruelest-closure-so-far/

I do want you to know what angers me. Preacher Jonathan Shuttlesworth is saying vile things about churches that close. The man opposes hand washing. He’s calling for certain American coastal states and cities to be hit hardest by this disease—oh sorry, prophesying that this will happen. Al Mohler and other SBC types played the martyr just a few days ago when the governor of Kentucky dared suggest that churches suspend worship for awhile. Add those to the pile of Christian hucksters selling snake oil.

And this from Lori Alexander, another hand-washing skeptic: “Mothers of young children, you can rest assured concerning this virus since no children from zero to nine have died from it and most children have mild cases of this. It seems to mostly be killing the elderly and those with health problems.” Translation: Don’t worry, moms, it’ll only kill Gram and Gramps, diabetics, folks on chemo, and kids over ten.

These are not like medieval Christians who cared for victims of plague. These people are discrediting the faith and possibly endangering lives.

Brian,

Hi Brian, the guard-pugs are gnawing my reply. But I did not think you were endorsing forced attendance. 🙂

Samuel Conner: Beer being carbonated, perhaps the scrubbing bubbles help.

True, but wouldn’t the residue be worse than what was there before? Just saying.

elastigirl: Cut…. stop…. hold the presses…. someone explain to me hickory nut pie and Kentucky coffee.

Okay, hickory nut pie is easy to explain — it’s just like pecan pie, except you put hickory nuts in it instead of pecans. I highly recommend hickory nut pies – I have made many of them. They are good, and if you can find the nuts before the squirrels get them, much cheaper to make than pecan pies.

Kentucky coffee, eh a little more “complicated” and not nearly as tasty. There are these trees (not very common trees) called Kentucky coffee trees. The seeds from the trees can be roasted, ground, and brewed to make a hot beverage something like, but not quite, coffee.
In the early days, when Kaintuck territory was being “settled”, real coffee was highly preferred but hard to come by. So, people made “Kentucky coffee” as a barely-satisfying-but-better-than-nuthin substitute.

Linn,

2 lbs of Redvines licorice, that’s my next purchase.

10 rolls of toilet paper, I’m the only two legged occupant in my apartment, I’ll be fine.

For at least 20 years I have heard about the concern of Epidemiologist/molecular biologist/infections disease scientist that a new “virus” could appear that is the result of a common human virus recombining with an animal virus, creating a new virus that is very infectious, with little human immunity, and it would sweep the globe. Also, it originate in an open air market that would fresh, wild animals. The on-line version of “The Lancet”, published on Jan 30, 2020, the following paper was published, and note this final paragraph in the abstract:

Genomic characterisation and epidemiology of 2019 novel
coronavirus: implications for virus origins and receptor
binding

http://www.thelancet.com Vol 395 February 22, 2020

“2019-nCoV is sufficiently divergent from SARS-CoV to be considered a new human-infecting
betacoronavirus. Although our phylogenetic analysis suggests that bats might be the original host of this virus, ananimal sold at the seafood market in Wuhan might represent an
intermediate host facilitating the emergence of the virus in humans. Importantly, structural analysis suggests that 2019-nCoV might be able to bind to the angiotensinconverting enzyme 2 receptor in humans.”

This is NOT SCIENCE fiction… this is reality…

elastigirl: i teach music one-on-one in my home. i disinfect the instrument before very lesson. i can also ask each student to wash their hands before each lesson.

One of the most under-rated wunder (voonder) sundries in existence is hydrogen peroxide 3% solution. It’s widely available and every bit as good as the high priced hand sanitizer products. Mrs. Muff and me have filled a spray bottle with it and use it liberally.

Ken F (aka Tweed),

I don’t drink, but I had too many dorm mates get stinkin’ drunk on Coors 40 years ago.
I’ll stick with Diet Coke.

Nancy2(aka Kevlar): I know how to make sassafras tea

Good stuff! Some of my fondest memories as a child include digging sassafras roots with my father, picking “poke salad” greens in the Spring, fishing for bluegill during the spawn, and tracking rabbits in the snow. I still do some of those things!

Good nutrition is essential to maintain a healthy immune system. Given that supply chains will be affected, I recommend growing at least your own vegies.

When Covid-19 first hit the headlines, I planted seeds of green vegetables — mostluy silver beet (aka chard) and coriander. Silver beet grows easily once you’ve kept the snails off the seedlings, and you can keep harvesting leaves for two seasons from the one plant. Saves having to go to the shops for the thing that lasts the least amount of time in your fridge: green vegies.

For toilet paper use damp facecloths — wash after use and disinfect as need. Or old hankies, or used paper serviettes, or newsprint.

For tissues, use handkerchiefs. This is BASIC knowledge for the older generations, esp those who went through the depression.

Use disposable gloves or something else to cover your fingers when using keypads at banks, supermarkets, etc. Washable gloves are okay, so long as you bag them after use and put them through the laundry later. You can often find old gloves in thrift stores.

Some door handles can be opened with your elbow, if you can’t use your elbow cover your hand with a piece of your clothing or a glove. Use your elbows to push open push-doors and to close doors. Do not touch the parts of the door with your hand that are normally touched by other people.

I don’t comment here much and usually late in threads. Guess I’m doing so again.

I was put on work from home status for a week on Wednesday when I learned (and reported to my manager) that I was three contacts away from a confirmed coronavirus case. Then on Thursday the company decided to make our five large offices, including mine, work from home for the next two weeks. Later that day our church closed Sunday services for the next three weeks, allowing small groups to make their own decisions, and allowing the food pantry that runs twice a month to run.

I have realized I am relieved to have the decision made for me. I commute via city bus and eat lunch out at restaurants near the office. So I was aware of the massive exposure risk I took every day just getting to/from work, but also that the restaraunt staff need business to get paid. So I was struggling with “which decision is right” and hoping I could hold out until the weather got warm enough to walk to/from work.

I had pushed my wife into laying in stocks of non-perishable food and consumables at the beginning of the prior week, so when she went to the grocery store Friday and found it out of stock in some aisles she just shrugged and got what we really needed – mostly perishables. My son is having to “suffer” our having milk of a different milkfat level than his prefernce.

Continuing from what I mentioned above, I’m sure the restaurant business and workers in that industry are going to suffer significantly. The best data I have seen comes from OpenTable, which is an online reservation system for many restaurants. Here are a couple bullet points of their summary:

1) In the United States and United Kingdom, we see a 20 percent reduction in total seated diners vs. last year. (All declines cited here are on a year-over-year basis.)
3) Things seem to be getting worse quickly, though. Yesterday, the U.S., UK, and Canada all declined by around 30 percent.
4) At the city level, diners are down approximately 45 percent in Seattle, 40 percent in San Francisco, 30 percent in New York, and 25 percent in London, Los Angeles, and Chicago.

You can see their full post at https://blog.opentable.com/2020/covid-19-coronavirus-restaurant-industry-data/ and there is national/state/city day by day data on a subpage. Note that their comparisons are year over year, so the weekends are shifting. (And I’m not sure what date they used as the year prior for 29 Feb… their guy/gal behind the curtain had to make a choice.)

Tipping extra at your regular places if you are still going out – or once you can go out again – would be an act of compassion for the waitstaff, whose income comes mainly from tips. I had started this to just a little bit right before I got put on work from home status. Restaurants may also be willing to do take out meals even if they usually don’t.

Brian:
Headless Unicorn Guy,

Bakker’s 5 gal buckets of mac and cheese.

Which are $4500 for seven man-years worth, i.e. the entire Great Tribulation for one person. His actual pitch line is “The World might be dying, but you’re eating breakfast like a king!”

Both NPR and Vice have sampled his 5 gal buckets of the “breakfast like a king”. Neither could go through more than one or two meals’ worth. That bad.
But he’ll get suckers because it’s Christian(TM).

“And you’ll only drink milk
If it comes from a Christian cow”.
— Steve Taylor, “Guilty by Association”

Barbara Roberts,

Thank-You for your great advice Barbara! It is most certainly appreciated and worth heeding in this day and age.

Nancy2(aka Kevlar): Hickory nuts are in the same family as pecans and taste very similar to pecans. They do need to be lightly toasted in an oven or toaster oven, to take a bit of a “raw” taste out. I just use my pecan pie recipe and use hickory nuts instead of pecans.

I suppose this thread is not too far off topic since it sort of pertains to survival/prepper food if necessary.

Have you ever tried black walnut pie? (another woodland species that is common in many parts of the U.S., with millions of them in Kentucky). Perhaps you have read “Stalking the Wild Asparagus” by Euell Gibbons … he has a chapter in his book on uses for walnuts and hickory nuts.

Since the end of last month, I’ve been dealing with much the same decision to make as Elastigirl.

For the past few years, I’ve been working as the manager/sole teacher at a small, independent English classroom on the outskirts of a city in Japan. And from the first Monday of this month, the government has ordered all public schools (from elementary upwards) to cancel classes for three weeks, which basically erases the end of the 2019 school year. At present, private tutoring schools like mine are exempt, and we’re being allowed to decide for ourselves whether to continue classes. That decision hasn’t been easy to make.

On the one hand, I want to do my part to keep my students and their families safe and healthy. Knowing that this virus can be spread by people who aren’t exhibiting symptoms is terrifying. However, the business isn’t mine. I’m running it in place of the owner, who is currently in her home country, tending to family matters. Since the school has been left to me in trust, I want to do my best to keep it going, which won’t happen if classes don’t. Also, I know my kids are going stir crazy, and getting bored out of their minds. I love teaching, and I’m happy to do my job and give the kids (and their parents) a break.

Adding to my worries, my monthly visits to nursery schools in the area (for English playtime) have all been cancelled for March. Those schools are mostly still open, but they’ve received orders to keep non-family visitors from having contact with the children. That’s a major source of revenue for our school, and there’s a major concern that it will continue to be denied to us if the spread of infection doesn’t slow down soon. English conversation lessons are currently the only source of income we have left. And since I’ve decided not to hold a recruitment drive (this month is the prime period for doing so), it might be very difficult to find new students for the coming school year.

For the time being, I’ve decided to continue with lessons. None of the classes have more than 4 students, and many are solo lessons. I honestly don’t see how I could carry them out online, or without going to the classroom. I do my best to disinfect surfaces on a regular basis, and keep things clean. The parents haven’t yet voiced any fears about bringing their children, and Japan’s containment measures to date seem to have done a good job of “flattening the curve”, as they say.

I’m constantly second-guessing this decision, though. COVID-19 is constantly in the news and on social media, and new cases are cropping up every day. Just yesterday, the first infections were confirmed in the same city ward as my school — authorities are still trying to figure out how these two people contracted the virus. I hope to finish the rest of my lessons for this month, but forces beyond my control might take that choice out of my hands. And the owner has already suggested that, if matters don’t improve soon, I might need to take off the next month — or two — without pay. Worst case scenario: The school runs out of money, and shuts down permanently.

All in all, it’s a somewhat different situation from that in the States, but still very stressful.

Barbara Roberts: For toilet paper use damp facecloths — wash after use and disinfect as need. Or old hankies, or used paper serviettes, or newsprint.

Good ideas, thanks.

If using paper other than toilet paper, it needs to be discarded, not flushed. Some clogs can’t be resolved with a plunger. I’m sure plumbers will have interesting stories about these times…

Samuel Conner: troubling: * studies of the aftermath of the 1918 pandemic suggest the possibility of immune dysfunction, induced by influenza exposure, in the young.

Not surprising. Similarly, there is plenty of evidence that getting Measles causes immune dysfunction which lasts for several years:

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2019/11/measles-does-long-term-damage-immune-system-studies-show

Samuel Conner,

I have a Zoom meeting online tomorrow with my tech lead at school as I teach remotely for the next two weeks. Google docs is also a big help. Realistically the kids will lose some ground, but so much better than getting CVID!

Headless Unicorn Guy,

Get a “Dalek gripper” style rubber cup plunger and use it “in reverse” to suck the clog back into the toilet bowl. A horrible experience, to be sure, but survivable. An ex-plumber friend of a friend conveyed this trick to the friend, who conveyed it to me, with these words: “this trick can save you a lot of $$”

GuyBehindtheCurtain,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVn6b9QQZeM

Headless Unicorn Guy,
Forgot to include “Miracle Mineral Solution”, AKA drinking industrial bleach as a cure-all.

“If you drink bleach to cure coronavirus because you read it on the Internet, you deserve everything that comes to you.”
— Morning drive-time radio reporting on fake coronavirus sure cures

That’s actually got a Christian tie in through its main advocate (“QUACK!”) setting up a 501c3 church(TM) claiming it as their sacrament or something. In Uganda, it’s being plugged by pastors under the name “Miracle Water”.

When I was a kid, I used to read my grandmother’s issues of Prevention magazine. Here’s what I learned from them:
IF THE PITCH STARTS WITH A GRAND UNIFIED CONSPIRACY THEORY ABOUT THE PROFITEERING MEDICAL ESTABLISHMENT — ESPECIALLY WITH TEAR-JERKING ANECDOTES — START HEARING THE SOUND OF DUCKS.

Muff Potter:
GuyBehindtheCurtain,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVn6b9QQZeM

Problem is, the only escape routes I have to the Black Lady in Boulder all run through the Walking Dude’s Vegas.

GuyBehindtheCurtain: interesting articles:

Another, by an ex-pat in Italy & the day-to-day there:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/in-romes-coronavirus-lockdown-the-living-are-trapped-with-the-dead?ref=home

Nancy2(aka Kevlar): That poke is a whole nuther story, though. It’ll be sproutin’ through the ground soon! I like it fried.

Isn’t pokeweed kind of poisonous? I once got what felt like a chemical burn on my hands from handling bruised root tubers. I consider it a pest and try to remove it whenever I encounter it.

Friend: These are not like medieval Christians who cared for victims of plague. These people are discrediting the faith and possibly endangering lives.

This is perhaps an unworthy thought, but it has occurred to me that some of those among the vulnerable population who will be carried away in this epidemic may have made bequests to their churches. Suspending public meetings to protect these people reduces present revenue; continuing the meetings might increase revenue above the non-epidemic baseline.

It reminds me of the OT criticism of the shepherds in Israel who feed themselves on the flock.

—

about 4% of the population has sociopathic personality traits. And the proportion tends to be higher in the upper reaches of powerful organizations. I think that’s enough to account for what we are seeing.

Samuel Conner: about 4% of the population has sociopathic personality traits. And the proportion tends to be higher in the upper reaches of powerful organizations. I think that’s enough to account for what we are seeing.

And “clergy” is among the Top 10 professions with the highest percentage of sociopaths.

Ken F (aka Tweed): Also, what will be the impact of having so many of our products made in China? Have we seen those impacts yet?

So far it’s just been pitifully shoddy and crappy merchandise on store shelves, but yeah, you do raise a sobering question:

What eventually happens to a nation that guts its manufacturing base and produces very few durable goods on its own shores?

GuyBehindtheCurtain,

Yes…I went to the store yesterday and picked up some milk for my elderly neighbor with a shut-in husband. (I’m a “young” senior 🙂 ). She gave me some cookies in a ziploc bag. I was very grateful, but I also tossed them because I just feel I need to be careful right now.

Muff Potter: So far it’s just been pitifully shoddy and crappy merchandise on store shelves, but yeah, you do raise a sobering question:

It used to be that way, but now China makes just about all the products and technologies we use. They also produce most of the world’s rare earth elements. And I read they produce around 80% of our medical supplies and medicines. Not the we could not produce them here, but the costs to do it there are so much lower.

Headless Unicorn Guy,

That Kenneth Copeland video was terrifying. Who falls for that?

Samuel Conner: Earlier this week I fitted up the elderly couple to use their living room TV to watch their church’s livestreamed services.

God bless you for your heart of service.

Muff Potter: Medieval ‘Christians’ routinely blamed the Jews for various contagions back then.

Thanks for pointing that out. I did find some articles and sources that give Christians high marks for mercy during plagues, but all are written by Christians themselves (modern or medieval).

Here’s an article about the tendency to blame human groups and animals for disease, usually inaccurately. https://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/01/health/01plague.html

I love the clever popish work-around at the end:

During the Black Death, Pope Clement VI issued an edict, or bull, saying Jews were not at fault. He did not, of course, blaspheme by blaming God. Nor did he blame mankind’s sins. That would have comforted the Flagellants, the self-whipping sect who were the bull’s real target; they often led the mobs attacking both Jews and the corrupt church hierarchy, and were considered heretics. Nor did it blame Möngke Khan or Yersinia pestis. It would be 500 years until the “germ theory” of disease developed.

No, the pope picked a target particularly tough to take revenge upon: a misalignment of Mars, Jupiter and Saturn.”

Beakerj: Who falls for that?

Desperate people. Seriously.

In a podcast about the Wetterling family, after their child was abducted, they admit now to listening to every kook that called them with “information” because they were so desperate. With empathy for where they were at, this explains it to the rest of us. Oh my, how our hearts ache for what they went through, and listening to the crazies didn’t help them at the time, but it’s obvious why they did. https://www.apmreports.org/in-the-dark/season-one

Note to self: be there for people who are desperately in need in our Christian fellowship, and walk with them in their truth with real love and practical help. That’s, IMHO, what TWW & Dee do successfully. No denying the ugly of what happens, and providing a platform to address it. Hearts are healed. Sometimes crimes (i.e., Savage) are addressed and predators put out of the church – after all these years, almost a miracle.

With the virus, we can do practical things, and pray, but not make false promises.

Muff Potter: Medieval ‘Christians’ routinely blamed the Jews for various contagions back then.

“Jewish law preserved the Jewish people through this terrible dark period of plague. It imposed a sanitary standard on the Jew far above the ordinary sanitary standard that medieval Europe had.” – https://www.jewishhistory.org/the-black-death/

Noted: “some could go half a lifetime never washing their hands while Jews were commanded by OT law to wash several times a day.”

Maybe with viruses jumping from creatures to humans at market places, OT food laws could also improve world health. Merits a look.

Friend: During the Black Death, Pope Clement VI

In Barbara Tuchman’s “A Distant Mirror: The Calamitous 14th Century”, she speculates on how the pope survived and noted the pope’s physician had him sit between two roaring fires in the middle of summer. I suspect that made the pope particularly inhospitable for the fleas known to pass the bubonic (but not pneumonic) plague.

I’d like to follow up on something I stated earlier about not getting really good directions from my evil too big to fail employer. Late Friday night, an email went out telling employees what to do in situations ranging from “I have coronavirus,’ “I think I have coronavirus,” “I’ve been in contact with someone who has tested positive for coronavirus,” “My child’s school/daycare has been closed” and “I am in a high risk group.” Basically, not to get in the weeds here, but my employer has waived the seven day waiting period for people to go on short term disability, given five days off to parents to try and find alternate care, and for those of us who are high risk and have the ability to do so, permission to work outside of the office.

I am personally hoping that my amoral employer’s example will help other employers make similar decisions. I realize this is easier for large employers to do rather than smaller, but the more we can flatten the curve, that’s good, right?

GuyBehindtheCurtain: It is a bit more complicated than that.

No contest here computer guy. Capital has always chased cheap labor abroad. All I’m saying is that it’s not sustainable in terms of all the hidden costs when the piper comes callin’ and demands payment. Plus (my opinion) it’s more obscene than old fashioned pulp pornography.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_JLPWu0t78

Ava Aaronson: Maybe with viruses jumping from creatures to humans at market places, OT food laws could also improve world health. Merits a look.

I am in hearty agreement! There had to be reason(s) for Torah’s specific descriptions of clean and unclean meats.
BTW, I can’t wait for Passover here in my locale, cuz’ it’s the only time of year in these parts that I can get a decent jar of gefilte fish.

GuyBehindtheCurtain:
Samuel Conner,

Much easier if they have an Apple devices and an AppleTV connected to the TV.

Especially if they like to operate their TV’s from the command line.

Ava Aaronson: Confirmed by Dr. Michael Osterholm, epidemiologist specializing in the study of infectious diseases: high percentage of deaths in China were age 70+ male smokers (men commonly smoke there, women don’t). He says in the US the variable will be obesity – much more common here than smoking. He said 45% of of US population becomes obese while aging.

Osterholm’s interviews are packed with information.

And I am so glad I’ve lost 95 pounds. I’m still about 40 overweight, but…

Here are a couple of good Web sites to track the grim toll…
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

https://informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/covid-19-coronavirus-infographic-datapack/?fbclid=IwAR197GFc9MQtKAnABxuyUQCBXojPbWrO3rTQa98HDDxOsdBy2sHt2CQrMMI

Leslie,

sounds like a positive thing. with the small # of people it sounds like you were able to manage a degree of ‘social distancing’.

larger groups would not be able to do this (which is what i was responding to). sacrificing wisdom and prudence (which may be looked down on as ‘worldly’) on the alter of ‘faith’ is happy-go-lucky foolishness — which other people will pay the price for.

March 15 interim guidance from the Centers from Disease Control and Prevention:

“… CDC, in accordance with its guidance for large events and mass gatherings, recommends that for the next 8 weeks, organizers (whether groups or individuals) cancel or postpone in-person events that consist of 50 people or more throughout the United States.

This recommendation does not apply to the day to day operation of organizations such as schools, institutes of higher learning, or businesses.” …

Full document: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/large-events/mass-gatherings-ready-for-covid-19.html

Leslie,

i am very happy for you. truly. i love groups that are small. sincere, honest, and real happen naturally when groups are small.

elastigirl: –what do you all think? is it best for my kids to stay at home? (middle school/highschool/college)

Our strategy:

-Lead by example, and tell kids what/why. Talk about local restrictions. Husband and I are staying home as much as possible. Offspring are limiting outings.

-Make sure kids know the basics, and gently remind them to wash hands, etc.

-If their friends come over, ask them what their families are doing. Tell them your house rules.

-If your kids go out, remind them about hygiene and distancing. Have them ask about house rules.

-Listen for their fears. Provide context and solid information.

-Keep home cheerful and welcoming.

-Make sure everybody has projects, hobbies, time alone, time together, etc.

-Walking is good exercise.

-Movie streaming recommendation! The 2019 documentary “Apollo 11” is gorgeous and uplifting, and it has a happy ending. Rated G!

Samuel Conner: SUGGESTION: shelter in place, as much as possible, with as few interactions as possible, for a number of weeks, until the testing situation improves enough that the public health authorities can determine the degree of spread in your community.

What happens when your food and TP stockpiles run out?
I’m sure I’m good for a few weeks, but what then?

I also cannot work from home, but that’s not that critical — I’ve stopped using Metrolink and driving in, and I figured out how to fuel up with minimal risk of contagion. Since some of my shop CAN work from home, that will lessen the number of possible exposures.

elastigirl: italy seems like the model example of what to do, however. (staying at home)

Italy is also the model example of what NOT to do — ignore the situation and go Business as Usual until everything explodes and hospitals are triaging and only treating those who can be saved (NO high-risk patients). This overwhelming the hospitals has boosted the death rate in Italy from 1-2% to 6% and rising. Warehouses have been converted to hospital overflow and churches to morgues.

YouTube comment threads are notoriously unreliable, but has anyone encountered teens walking up to “geriatrics” and deliberately coughing in their faces? And thinking this is All Very Funny?

Anecdotes of that have surfaced a couple times, as well as one from NYC of young healthy virile Millenials (what used to be called “Yuppies”) laughing over the whole situation — “That’s THEIR Problem – they can all hurry up and die already”.

elastigirl: larger groups would not be able to do this (which is what i was responding to). sacrificing wisdom and prudence (which may be looked down on as ‘worldly’) on the alter of ‘faith’ is happy-go-lucky foolishness — which other people will pay the price for.

What do you mean, “may”?
As I mentioned just above, It’s Already Happening.

May as well give you the link and the commentary I did at Wondering Eagle:

During the Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918, one dicoese in central Spain responded by calling a novena to a patron saint against pestilence. (In defiance of the SECULAR health authorities.) For nine days the churches were packed with prayers and devotions, including kissing the relics of said saint.

That town had the highest per-capita death rate of any in Spain.

Flash forward 100 years, to the big Baptist churches in Conway, Arkansas:
https://thewayofimprovement.com/2020/03/15/one-pastor-said-half-of-his-church-is-ready-to-lick-the-floor-to-prove-theres-no-actual-virus/

Once again, if the SECULAR world does X, Christians MUST do the Opposite of X.

Thing is, a lot of the backstory to this has a lot to do with cross-contamination from Political Conspiracy Theories and Culture War Politics, which this blog does NOT go into. But it’s still a factor in play.

Headless Unicorn Guy: But then, if the SECULAR world does X, Christians MUST do the Opposite of X.

Ark Encounter is shutting down tomorrow, on two days’ notice, specifically because of covid-19. Perhaps good sense will set in elsewhere.

Friend: (Coughing on people is just depraved. Ye gods…)

I’m calling those guys “Wanna-be Superspreaders”.

Headless Unicorn Guy,

The suggestion is carefully qualified by “as much as possible”. One should periodically replenish the pantry, and that should be done prudently, via socially-distanced methods, if possible.

Even in Italy, the groceries and pharmacies are not closed — people are advised to shelter in place, but are not forbidden to acquire necessities.

I’m off to a local grocery now; hopefully not packed (will turn around if it is), to pick up items requested by the elderly couple, and a few things for myself. Then an email appeal to the leadership of the church I passed yesterday that had a full parking lot.

Brian: Christian churches may be the wrong thing to do. Times of crisis cause people to look for emotional and spiritual support. Where do they go if a church has closed up?

Support people without subjecting them to infection! Ask who you can help, communicate by phone, social media, a safe distance of 6 ft, etc.

Headless Unicorn Guy: They don’t expect test kits to appear in any quantity for at least another week, during which projections from other epidemics the number of infected will almost double. UCLA had to start producing their own.

I think that it is likely that when large-scale testing gets underway, there will be a very rapid increase in the number of reported confirmed cases. Per the Johns Hopkins pandemic dashboard, US confirmed cases have been increasing at about 30% day over day for the last few days (doubling roughly every 60 hours). I don’t think that (and I earnestly hope that) the underlying epidemic is actually spreading that fast, but it perhaps gives a sense of how rapidly the reported numbers could increase once our awareness of the extent of spread is not being constrained by the testing capacity limits; presumably for a number of days the daily % increase will exceed what we are seeing now in our current testing-capacity-shortfall situation.

Maintain your antiviral hygiene practices and your social distancing measures.

Samuel Conner: I think that it is likely that when large-scale testing gets underway, there will be a very rapid increase in the number of reported confirmed cases.

I’m certain of it. Given the time frame, I’d figure on adding at least two (and more likely three) zeroes to the present figure. Which will trigger another panic.

(I consider the current US & UK numbers the “propaganda number” as per the scene from Chernobyl: “They gave them the propaganda number. Two thousand Roentgens, not fifteen thousand.”)

On YouTube, Dr John Campbell of Chelsea, England has been chronicling and analyzing the numbers and news on his “Dr John Campbell” channel for several weeks. And he says pretty much the same thing.

Max: On the other hand, when things get desperate enough in America, it would be great to see millions of Christians going to church to humble themselves, pray, repent, and seek God’s face (instead of business as usual). We’re not there yet.

Why do I see that scene from The Stand where the group in Boulder is cleaning up from Captain Trips and they go into a church sanctuary?

Muff Potter: reason(s) for Torah’s specific descriptions of clean and unclean

Some of the unclean are bottom-feeders, IOW, they eat garbage. Since the NT, it’s not sinful to eat these, & there’s no need for “slaughter” as someone up thread mentioned. Just an indication to be wise about what one consumes.

A biologist has written about her study of parasites, and though neither Christian nor religious, she subsequently follows the OT food laws, for health. (What she found out & the correlation with what God forbid back then.) We have her book.

About the virus we are facing, hygiene & personal space are good.

A Jewish friend has said that in her view, some Christians do not understand “set apart”, which she was raised with as a practicing Jew. Jumping into the soup does not wash our sins away. Jesus does that at the foot of the Cross where we approach individually on our knees.

HeadlessUnicornGuy: There’s a couple megas — or should we say “giant petri dishes” in my area. I wouldn’t want to get near the tony suburbs of Dallas

I don’t know about the other megas, but I saw gateway was canceling.

Beakerj:
Headless Unicorn Guy,

That Kenneth Copeland video was terrifying. Who falls for that?

Enough Social Security checks to make Copeland a near-Billionaire.

From Coffee With Jesus:
CARL: And he said if I “sowed a seed of faith” you’d bless that gift and increase it ten, a hundred, a thousand fold!
JESUS: So you called the toll-free number, pledged some money, and now you’re expecting me to give you a return on your investment.
CARL: Well, those rates are a lot better than I can get at any bank, Jesus.
JESUS: Did you happen to notice, Carl, that the man pitching this scheme was seated on a gold throne and wearing a three-thousand dollar suit?

dee,

It is really “uncanny” how close “to the script” this is playing out compared to the Academic seminars I have attended. . I have a paper in which they sequenced the genetic material of the virus from eight very early patients….. the eight patients virus were all VERY similar, and ALL had genetic material from a bat….. (as seminar I attended predicted- at least a wild animal virus) this paper was published online January 30, and they discuss the virus being in the US then….
At the rate it is going this virus will sweep the globe in the 3-6 months, unless the “curve is flattened”….

Headless Unicorn Guy: I expect a major cluster outbreak in that town. And in Lynchburg VA, where Liberty U alone refuses to suspend. And at a few (and maybe more) Dallas Megas. T

This is historically normal for LU. I remember a bad snowstorm up there when I was a student living off-campus, and they announced school would go on as normal even though everyone else was closed. And one of my professors had a 3-strike policy on tardies and absences and enforced it on me even though I tried to get to school and ran off the road and had to be towed. Showing him the tow receipt did nothing. Luckily, I wasn’t out of strikes and my friend with a 4-wheel drive drove me to school for a couple days after that.

There was very little charity for a place that claimed to be about sharing God’s love with the world.

WildHoney: Zucchini is easy to grow, too.

This probably takes too long (no idea) but eggplant grew really well here last time I had plants! Eggplant is yummy and can be a meat substitute.

For your daily Bible meditation: “So the Lord sent a pestilence upon Israel from the morning even to the time appointed; and there died of the people from Dan even to Beersheba 70,000 men.” – Just one of many such verses easily found with any concordance.

HeadlessUnicornGuy: Flash forward 100 years, to the big Baptist churches in Conway, Arkansas:

Ah, ok I see. We just got our first cases a few days ago. Things are changing rapidly on the ground here. Most restaurants and shops are limiting hours, delivering, going to take out only…I’m sure those churches will change soon.

The wording of this announcement from J MacArthur’s church

https://www.gracechurch.org/community/posts/1898

gives me the impression that they would not be changing their meeting plans if not compelled to by the State of California.

One wonders if the members are heeding calls to anti-viral hygiene measures and social distancing.

David: Isn’t it true that viruses mutate at a regular rate?

Most do. This one has roughly 30,000 RNA “letters” in its coding. It is mutating at a rate of roughly two letters a month. The vast majority of the mutations are irrelevant to the behavior of the disease but do help scientists group/trace transmissions chains. The ones that matter could make it worse or better.

See https://bedford.io/blog/ncov-cryptic-transmission/ for some more detail. It was that post that pushed me into deciding my family needed to buy supplies. I’m glad it did, it put us a week ahead of the local panic reaction. The author continues to post on twitter as the science develops, see https://twitter.com/trvrb and read threads. He has posted revision threads in response to feedback from other scientists (not randos) in at least one case I’ve seen.

Headless Unicorn Guy: but I’ve been fighting “No Hablo Ingles and the Weedwhackers” for years just to get a couple geraniums and ground cover to survive on those couple square meters.

You do know that you could get branded a ‘racist’ for that little quip over at any one of the ‘progressive’ ixtian blogs? You know, the ones where they hate their own whiteness almost as bad as Winston Smith hated working in the Ministry of Truth?

Friend: Good to see that the church’s own message is not defiant or complaining.

My impression (and perhaps I am biased) is that that announcement has a tone of “we’re doing this because we have to; we’d rather gather to worship God as we customarily do (and we would have done that without the compulsion of the State order).

And that could convey to the flock the implication that “this isn’t as big a deal as the authorities are making it out to be”

I hope that’s not the intent and not the effect, but I would have been much more encouraged to see a clear acknowledgement of the gravity of the situation. The first sentence of the 2nd paragraph seems to me to imply that the congregation does not have objective grounds for fear or a sense of insecurity; that is for the ‘others’ in the world outside. The emphasis on Divine predetermination of outcomes could have the effect of weakening the people’s sense of the importance of their individual contributions to the slowing of the progress of the epidemic.

It is not hard for me to imagine some congregations, a year from now, surveying their self-inflicted wreckage and wondering, like Paul’s imaginary interlocutor in Romans 9, “no-one resists His will; why then does He still blame us?”

Samuel Conner: And that could convey to the flock the implication that “this isn’t as big a deal as the authorities are making it out to be”

Agreed, but the whole US has been changing hour by hour. Federal, state, and local government messages are exceedingly urgent today.

Lea: That’s not predetermination that’s bad decision making.

It’s both, from the perspective of “strong sovereignty” — God decrees the means as well as the ends. Funny how we’re migrating back toward that theological issue; it’s always lurking in the background.

Just as “divine predestination” can have the effect, in some church traditions, of demotivating the laity to engage in outreach, I think that it could have the effect of demotivating people from making the strenuous efforts that are needed to pursue the public interest in the midst of the present emergency.

Perhaps in such contexts, “love of neighbor” could motivate significant effort to pursue the well-being of one’s neighbors and the wider community. But that presupposes that “love of neighbor”, if even present, is conceived of in terms broader than simply “helping them to escape post-mortem punishments”.

I worry that the current manifestations of “church” are going to prove, in at least some cases, to be very bad for all of us.

Thomas J (aka “Stonewall”) Jackson is famously reputed to have not worried about enemy fire, reckoning that he was invulnerable to anything aimed at him until the from-eternity-past appointed moment of his passing would arrive. Ironically, in the end he was the victim of a friendly fire incident, shot by his own pickets while returning to friendly lines from a night-time reconnaissance.

I worry that this mentality, which is probably not hard to find in some corners of modern US Protestantism, could have the consequence that people who think this way may not feel a “love of neighbor” duty to engage in either self-protective or other-protective measures.

elastigirl: it’s a piano (darn, did i just compromise my anonymity?)

Have you seen the Corona virus Etude for disinfecting the keys?
https://youtu.be/whNICyl_et0

Headless Unicorn Guy: But then, if the SECULAR world does X, Christians MUST do the Opposite of X.

Unless X happens to involve being blessed [sic] with money, fame or book sales.

dee: So, am I crazy or prudent given where I live?

You’re prudent dee, no question about it.
But it still makes ya’ wonder that maybe our first-world gated Elysium ain’t as secure as we thought?

Friend: Not just Protestantism and not just in the US. In the past few days, have heard several Catholic and Orthodox priests say that Communion has never transmitted germs in over 2000 years. And holy water is safe to drink (although drinking it is not even the norm).

These are not the majority voices, but people do listen to them.

Sigh … they probably would not be persuaded even by a controlled trial of the hypothesis that Communion cannot infect or that Holy Water cannot be contaminated with airborne pathogens.

OTOH, there will probably be some retrospective case studies of these very things in years to come.

I imagine that in future they will be studying and writing about what we are experiencing as long as, or longer than, we and our predecessors have been studying the great Spanish Flu pandemic.

We’re making history 🙁

In the county where I live, we had our first presumptive positive case reported on Saturday (3/14). The young man in question was already over it by the time it was reported and contracted it from out of country (European) guests that had already come and gone.

Most (not all, but most) music gigs (including one of mine) had already been cancelled or postponed. All other public gatherings have been cancelked / postponed, including all school / University sporting events. A major, national annual sporting event that takes place at the end of May was just cancelled today. We’re waiting to see if they will cancel a major annual music festival. It takes place the end of June and draws upwards of 50,000 people for the weekend from all over the world – I’ll be shocked if it isn’t cancelled. Both the public schools and the university are on spring break. The public schools are on a minimum of 3 week hold on returning to class – may be until May. The university is going the route of virtual online classes for now. Some fast food places have closed their dining rooms and gone to drive thru / delivery only. Many restaurants are encouraging takeout or delivery with no-contact delivery options. Grocery stores have reduced their hours and are limiting the number of certain items (tp, hand sanitizer, etc.) that can be purchased per day per person. The hospitals have stopped allowing vistors. Most churches have gone to online only services (a notable and not surprising exception being my former church). My current church is doing a live stream service where only the pastor and worship team are on site. They will do this for three weeks and them evaluate if it needs to go longer.

My sister, who is homebound, was negatively impacted by the freaking hording. She has to do her grocery shopping online and when she placed her order, the site said Walmart had TP in stock. By the time they put her order together, they were out. She only had 2 rolls left to last her a month. I reached out to a friend who runs a local non-profit that helps homeless families and she sent someone to my sister with TP from their stock.

Brian,

Our very large school system is now distributing two meals a day to students in the free/reduced program. Because of a covid-19 diagnosis, every school building is completely off limits. The meals are being distributed from 29 school parking lots. State-certified food handlers are serving the children. By my calculation, each site will feed over 1,800 children twice each weekday, and also provide weekend bags.

About 52,000 children are in the program.

Lord have mercy.

I made a little trip to Russellville, Ky today (pop. 7,000). They have a Walmart, and I thought May that Wally World hadn’t been hit as hard a the ones in bigger towns. Boy was I wrong! ……So glad that I habitually stock up!
No toilet paper, no kleenexes, no potatoes, no onions, no bread, no buns, no peanut butter, etc, etc, etc …….
I had intended to get a couple of cans of baby Lima beans (for Brunswick stews). I had to cans in the cabinet, but since I made B. stew tonight, I thought maybe I’ get a couple more cans. No baby Lima beans….. none….. nada…… zilch. Can somebody tell me who in the pea-pickin’-blankety-blank hordes baby limas??????????
So, I went to the Dollar General Store and purchased 3 of their last 5 loaves of whole wheat sandwich bread, and a few other things.

I tried to get a hair cut today, but I still have a nasty cough and sneeze “seizures” from the really bad RSV and sinus infections that I had. I explained that to the manager —– the possibility that I might get half of a haircut and then get kicked out because I started coughing and triggered a panic in the salon. The manager told me that they would not cut my hair today. Eh, no hard feelings. I can understand their position.
Jails are closed to visitors, restaraunts were ordered to close at 5:00 pm tonight, restricted visitation at nursing homes and assisted care facilities……

The first Kentuckian died from corona virus today……. a 66 year-old man from Bourbon County who had health complications/risk factors.

My 76 yo dad and 73yo mom have been on my case about venturing out in public because I have a compromised immune system like they have room to talk …..pfffft, I have a better chance than either of them.
Are we having fun, yet?

Samuel Conner:
The wording of this announcement from J MacArthur’s church

https://www.gracechurch.org/community/posts/1898

gives me the impression that they would not be changing their meeting plans if not compelled to by the State of California.

One wonders if the members are heeding calls to anti-viral hygiene measures and social distancing.

After reading that link, it’s so encouraging to see that you can still drop off your virus-riddled offering at the church office! Wouldn’t want them to miss out on THAT now, would we? (All written in ‘sarcastic’ font!)

Honestly, I think that’s the ultimate reason the metas are putting up such a fuss. But our little church even drug its heels for a bit before realizing that staying open would put the majority of the congregation in the center of the disease’s crosshairs. Most members are in the 65 and up crowd. Pastor will now be preaching to a video camera for a little while!

Root 66,

A perfectly ordinary typo, that perhaps has the useful effect of granting the opportunity to riff on the concept of a “meta church”. In present day usage, “meta” as an adjective has the meaning “self-referential”

That strikes me as a useful new term to describe many of these groups.

If one reads Acts from the perspective of “strong sovereignty”, one would be inclined to conclude that the persecution that scattered the big gathered church at Jerusalem was intended for that very purpose. God did not want that congregation to remain a gathered congregation; He preferred that it be scattered.

Acts 8:4 suggests a possible reason to prefer a “scattered” to a “gathered” group.

The numerous small churches that coalesced here and there after the scattering did not remain under the direct instruction of the apostles — no internet in those days.

One wonders if the leaders of the present great mega-churches (or, perhaps better, “meta churches”) will connect these dots.

Or will they show themselves to be “meta pastors”

Lea: massive events directly contribute to the spread of disease

The massive exchange of cash each day in America is concerning me. I suspect that the porous surface of paper money (one of the most filthy things in our society) might harbor the virus for hours/days as it is circulated. Puts a new slant on Biblical references to money as “filthy lucre.” Wash those hands folks!

dee: So, am I crazy or prudent given where I live?

IMO, it is prudent to have a 2-4 week (or longer) supply of food on hand regardless of where you live. Beyond the current flu threat, natural disasters of one form or another threaten all regions of our country causing disruption in transportation and food availability. Our “emergency” food supply includes rice, oatmeal, dried beans, powdered milk, chicken bouillon, peanut butter, honey, dried fruit, canned vegetables, canned fruit, pasta, pasta sauce, nuts, granola bars, and COFFEE. We rotate these items for 2+ years of shelf life and also have a supply of dried beans, rice and pasta preserved in mylar bags packed with oxygen absorbers providing a 25-year shelf life. Not a big stash, but enough to keep us going for a while.

dee: I knew things were really serious when they stopped college basketball. This is North Carolina!

Indeed, that’s when I started getting panicky. Basketball is KING in North Carolina – it takes serious stuff to stop the ball from dribbling there!

Muff Potter: You guys like bluegills too?

There is no greater sport (IMO) than fly-fishing for bluegill with popping bugs or dangling a cricket or worm in front of them under a bobber … a species that can out-fight any other pound-per-pound and great eating! Other fishermen always grant me “social distancing” when they observe me whipping my fly rod madly over a pond.

Nancy2(aka Kevlar): Can somebody tell me who in the pea-pickin’-blankety-blank hordes baby limas??????????

Jackals and hyenas (the two-legged variety) that’s who.
They care nothing for anybody or anything that can’t cater to their immediate desires.

Mr. Jesperson:
For your daily Bible meditation: “So the Lord sent a pestilence upon Israel from the morning even to the time appointed; and there died of the people from Dan even to Beersheba 70,000 men.” – Just one of many such verses easily found with any concordance.

You really have a one-track mind on this, don’t ya?

dee: I take two prescription medicines which have been quite effective. Xeljanz XR and Plaquenil (Hydroxycholriquine). Apparently the Plaquenil is being used to treat coronavirus.

According to MedCram, hydroxychoroquine allows zinc to pass the cell wall and mess up the virus’s reproduction. (They’ve tried both choloquine and hydroxychloroquine and the latter seems to work better.) This is dependent on zinc levels, so if the zinc levels are low it has to be teamed with a zinc supplement. Since it’s an existing drug, Italian doctors are using it out of desperation.

dee: So, do you think they believe they shouldn’t follow the guidelines given by the government?

Already anticipated you, Dee.
“Should we follow man or GAWD? Me and my house,we will follow The LORD.”

Max,

Crappies are pretty good, but I luv those channel cats with hushpuppies! But, it’s still too chilly here for the cats to be bitin’……. wah.
Don’t forget to take a jacket with you – the weather in March can be unpredictable, and the wind seems colder out on the water.

Jerome,

What a terrific “all-or-nothing” attitude…so typical of a 9-Marxist! Punishing people by withholding the Word from them, since they can’t ‘do church’ the way that Dever feels that they should, is pretty low. Hopefully folks there will realize that they’re better off WITHOUT that kind of biblical-brow-beating, and will eventually choose to worship elsewhere!

Jerome,

Ken F (aka Tweed),

It’s interesting to me that in the extracts Jerome provided, Dever emphasizes the “covenanted” character of the group that is temporarily “fasting” from its customary Sunday exercises. Perhaps it’s just my deepening cynicism, but I am tempted to see in this an intended message to his congregation that “you signed a contract to continue under my/our [CHBC elders’] authority unless and until we release you”.

I share Ken F’s hope that this emergency will have beneficial and transformative effects on the current preferred ways of “being church”.

—-

I also hope that this will be the death of the televised healing ministries. That grift has been going on far too long. This is really snarky, I suppose, but I think that FC got started a few decades late.

Jerome: Dever: “a video of a sermon is not a substitute for a covenanted congregation assembling together and all the various means of God’s grace in that.

This is so dumb, but it shows that they think there is magic in assembling, and that god cannot do the same from a distance? Social media doesn’t count as assembling, even as I saw on facebook live last sunday many church members commenting how much they appreciated the service and holding a gathering of sorts. I would say this call just sounds like laziness, but I think maybe they really believe it. Which tells you what they think of older/infirmed members who cannot physically attend.

Jerome: [Mark Dever] “I think it would be healthier to respect God’s strange providence in a period of abstinence from meeting together.”

What a wacky, kooky thing to say.

Max: and also have a supply of dried beans

I have noticed that dried pinto beans, if not cooked timely, tend to further dry out to the point that they will not soften much regardless of how much I cook them (at normal range-top conditions; perhaps pressure-cooking would help — don’t have that kind of cooker).

If anyone knows how to deal with this, I would appreciate guidance. I did not rotate all of my dried beans. Prior to the emergency, I had started feeding them to the compost worms.

Lea: This is so dumb, but it shows that they think there is magic in assembling, and that god cannot do the same from a distance?

I think that it is conceivable that there is something special, that could be described in terms of the language of “means of grace”, in the practice of “assembling together”. It’s an hypothesis that has been on my mind for several years.

Short story: I suspect that the work of the Holy Spirit is substantially (perhaps not exclusively, but substantially) mediated through interpersonal relationships characterized by “love one another”.

Longer story: I think this is why, in the great “Supper Discourse” in the 4th Gospel, the two great themes are “Love one another” and “I will send the Spirit after I depart”.

I also think this is why, in that discourse, Jesus asserted that the Spirit would not come until after his departure. The apostles did not love one another, they were competing for high office in the coming kingdom, and were more interested in currying favor with the coming king, Jesus, than with either loving one another or ministering to Israel. So Jesus had to remove himself from their midst in order to force them to face, and begin to love, “one another”.

It’s just an hypothesis, but I think it may be the least implausible account of Jesus’ puzzling remark that the Holy Spirit would not come while Jesus remained visibly present among them.

——

OTOH, the kinds of “assembled together” mass assemblies that take place in the mega-churches (or is that “meta churches”?) do not much facilitate “love on another”, so if this hypothesis is valid, perhaps there is not much Holy Spirit ministry happening in the current ways of being a mega/meta church.

Perhaps the emergency will change our ways of “being church” in ways that could promote God’s work among us.

Lea,

What I’m saying is, community and assembly may be about something more than sitting in the same room.

Lea:
SamuelConner,

I have some rice and dried beans in my emergency stash and they are old. they will probably taste terrible. I have no intention of touching them unless everything else is long gone.

Probably still better than the ones from Jim Bakker’s Armageddon Food Buckets Only $135 Each! (Only $4500 for seven man-years – the entire Great Tribulation!)

elastigirl: i’ve still tended to fill the kitchen with just enough food for the week.

I always shop by the week and get stressed if i have too much food in the fridge/freezer (aside from extra cheese and butter), but I have staples too so I could make any number of things…but it would be high carbs. I have to basically force myself *not* to buy another thing of pasta every week.. When I went shopping saturday I got some extra flour/sugar/butter.

Lea:
Lea,

What I’m saying is, community and assembly may be about something more than sitting in the same room.

“In the same room” might be the optimal way, but with today’s communications online provides a decent fallback position.

A bit of history regarding a Celebrity Christian Culture War Leader in a similar situation around 100 years ago:
https://thewayofimprovement.com/2020/03/17/how-billy-sunday-handled-the-1918-influenza-epidemic/
Note the parallels.

elastigirl: did you get these at your local mylar-bag-packed-with-oxygen-absorber shop?

I got mylar bags (quart and gallon sizes) and oxygen absorbers a couple of years ago when I was in a prepping mood … still have a supply of both on hand … I got them from Walmart online at the time (just checked, they still list them) … plenty of videos on YouTube on how to pack food in the bags and handling of oxygen absorbers for packing dried food staples to yield a 25-year shelf life – beans, rice, pasta, etc. I store the packets in 5-gallon plastic buckets with lids. It’s the old Boy Scout in me: “Be Prepared”

Samuel Conner,

I have pressure cookers – they only cook the beans faster…… much faster!
In addition to what Max, said, which is one correct way …. you can put dried beans in a pot of water; bring them to a full boil, them turn the heat down to a low boil. Let them simmer 10 to 15 minutes. Then drain the water off. Add fresh water and cook as usual. That is what I usually do.
Dry beans and rice also keep better, long term, in a freezer or an airtight, preferably glass, container.

As far as letting food items get old ….. Eh yeah, the first 5 years we married, hubby thought I was crazy; now, he thinks I’m crazy like a fox (you really can fool some of the people all of the time…. Giggle)
I write the date of storage on absolutely everything…. homegrown, storebought, cheese, meat, vegetable, spices…… everything. When I buy/grow more, I rotate cans, bags, etc.

Nancy2(aka Kevlar): that one track does not cross over into the New Testament

What did these elderly Italians do to God, that their local paper now has ten pages of obituaries instead of two?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0U572cjsCI

Rain Girl,

“we began meeting on Zoom. It actually works even better!”
++++++++++++++

thank you, Rain Girl. I’ve been thinking about this the last few days, troubleshooting by way of discussion with my husband on how best to do this.

need to find a good way to prop up the device (phone, laptop, ipad) — don’t want to waste time during lesson having to adjust and readjust for a good view. need to come up with easy and quick set up for students’ families.

ach…change… i was settled so nicely into my routine. i like change, but new normals have numerous problems to solve.

Nancy2(aka Kevlar),

I’ve noticed that even when dry beans (pinto or navy) are well cooked and tender, they seem to have thicker and more rubbery hulls these days than in times past.

Muff Potter,

I think the mass production beans may have built up some sort of chemical/pesticide resistance??? …… Or maybe the good has just been hybridized out of them! Homegrowns cook up better.
But here’s a tip if you go to buy pinto beans – the lighter the color, the softer they’ll cook!

Samuel Conner,

Sounds like it’s time for you to get a new batch of emergency beans! While canned beans are disappearing quickly from local stores, there is still a supply of dried beans (for now). I’ll follow your advice to see how my dehydrated beans have been doing by opening a bag and checking them out … I trust that they are OK since they have been protected from the effects of oxygen, moisture, and light since packing.

Friend: [Mark Dever] “I think it would be healthier to respect God’s strange providence in a period of abstinence from meeting together.”

What a wacky, kooky thing to say.

But, but, he’s basing it all on God’s Word!
First Corinthians Seven, verse Five!
(Do not deprive one another sexually—except when you agree for a time, to devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again HCSB)

Explained on the 9Marksist website:

https://www.9marks.org/pastors-talk/episode-119-on-when-the-church-cant-gather-2/

transcript:

8:13
9Mark Dever: “While I’ll certainly miss the assembly tomorrow and…the Sunday after that and…the Sunday after that–I don’t know if this is going pass more quickly or take more time than the Spanish Flu–but I do think that there will be a keen sense of appreciation the next time we are able to assemble as a church.”

Jonathan Leeman: “This will be the first time you’ve not attended a church in how long?”

9Mark Dever: “Um, in my memory I can’t remember a Sunday where I haven’t attended a church.

Jonathan Leeman: “And there’s a sense of mourning…but I also hear you saying, and tell me if this is right, there’s almost a, what you’re recommending is, and this may seem like a strange connection, a strange text, First Corinthians Seven “Do not”–uh, where Paul is [inaudible] husbands and wives not to not be intimate together but if they do, only for a season, and for prayer.

9Mark Dever: “Yeah…This is equivalent to that. Yeah, you’re not going to livestream your marriage. You know, you can’t reproduce, and it’s unhealthy to think you can…”

Jerome,

Meanwhile my pastor sent a letter about closing for a few weeks (to start) and said as members of the body of christ we are always the church together, gathered or scattered. I prefer that sentiment.

Dever and Leeman are being so weird about all of this.

Yesterday was the last day the local indoor climbing wall opened; from today it’s closed indefinitely. Wartburgers will be pleased to know that we at least had a decent session of it; I got round the first crux on the new 6c route using the pink holds resembling brains (we call them “The Brains”). Didn’t manage the top crux, but that’s still progress. Lesley made it through the lower crux of a new 6a+ and, in fact, finished the route with only a couple of rests. So it wasn’t a bad last session.

Max: Sounds like it’s time for you to get a new batch of emergency beans!

Dried beans (with whole grain rice) are my staple even in ordinary times; wonderfully helpful for … regularity, a decent protein source and wonderfully inexpensive on a $/calorie and $/gram protein basis. I have a decent stock of “fresh” beans for the next couple of weeks.

These old beans are from the island of misplaced containers. I’d like to use them up at the start, if they are usable, to stretch out my fresh supply. Sort of like using newsprint to stretch out the TP.

Poking around the internet, it appears that old beans do become more difficult to cook tender as they age. This might happen even for beans that were stored perfectly. There is a claim that pressure cooking (which is faster because at elevated temperature) can soften them. That makes sense to me; higher temperature might break more bonds (I’m guessing these would be “hydrogen bonds” among the carbohydrate and protein chains) and promote liquid water infiltration into the bean tissue. Perhaps time to get an instant pot, if those are still available.

Samuel Conner: Dried beans (with whole grain rice) are my staple even in ordinary times; wonderfully helpful for … regularity, a decent protein source and wonderfully inexpensive on a $/calorie and $/gram protein basis. I have a decent stock of “fresh” beans for the next couple of weeks.

Yes, indeed. The preppers know this and have been stocking up. A diet of beans + rice is a good source of proteins, supplying all the essential amino acids found in dairy, meat, poultry and fish. I just got back from a bean & rice run at local groceries to supplement what I already have on hand (just-in-case). All gone, of course, except one lonely bag of “parboiled” rice, which I grabbed. Most folks don’t know that parboiled rice is an excellent long-term storage item, loaded with nutrients. Grab some if still available in your area.

I never buy dried beans – always prefer canned and america’s test kitchen backed me up that they were better. I only bought dried for mild prepping purposes.

an item posted yesterday

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/king-jesus-church-florida-coronavirus_n_5e7120e8c5b60fb69ddf6f66

“in the presence of God, no virus can stand”.

So when that church is established to have been the source of a cluster of infections, will he conclude that God was not present there that Sunday?

If you get one thing, get wisdom. It will save your life.

Samuel Conner: This is IMO even worse than turning the Temple into a marketplace.

I sure hope that Pastor knows how to efficaciously “pray to the Father in Jesus’ name”. I think they are going to need some healing.

Healing, nothing.
He’d better have Bethel’s Dead Raising Team on speed-dial.

In Korea, one infected person at a megachurch infected over 1300 others at her mega. (Which means 200 hospitalized and 20 dead, going by the averages in that country.) She’s called the Super-Spreader. Look for this Superapostle’s Mega (and other similar ones) to be topping that, spawning multiple clusters.

Samuel Conner: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/king-jesus-church-florida-coronavirus_n_5e7120e8c5b60fb69ddf6f66

“in the presence of God, no virus can stand”.

Then the most dangerous place a believer can be is in much of the organized church … which hasn’t been accused of having the presence of God in years!

Samuel Conner: an item posted yesterday
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/king-jesus-church-florida-coronavirus_n_5e7120e8c5b60fb69ddf6f66
“in the presence of God, no virus can stand”.

Note that in one of the videos, this Megapastor is titled “Apostle”.

“If you come across a preacher who titles himself ‘Prophet’ or ‘Apostle’, RUN!”
— my writing partner (the burned-out preacher)

And giving his sermon/address posed against a backdrop of at least SIX American flags…

Samuel Conner: “Unfortunately, one of the consequences of the colossal mess-up earlier this year, and ongoingly, in terms of testing capability is that there is very little confidence one can have that the disease is not present in one’s local community. ”

The one thought I am not seeing presented is that we honestly do not know how widespread this ‘epidemic’ genuinely is. How many commenting here have been tested, or know many who have? For that matter, how accurate are tests that simply suggest particles of RNA are present, which may or may not demonstrate a virus which is the cause of disease. This, instead of causing more panic, should help to lessen our fear. A well-respected researcher in the medical field recently published an article with the title “In the coronavirus pandemic, we’re making decisions without reliable data”. https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-fiasco-in-the-making-as-the-coronavirus-pandemic-takes-hold-we-are-making-decisions-without-reliable-data/?fbclid=IwAR1cl7nTKdTBdrRll-dQv4DczVeHDU90IQYV0gK-xiHB3IpEDnMfkSBsIio

Dr. John Ioannidis is also the author of one of the most referenced medical articles of all time, https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/11/lies-damned-lies-and-medical-science/308269/ entitled, “Lies, Damned Lies, and Medical Science”. It starts out stating, “Much of what medical researchers conclude in their studies is misleading, exaggerated, or flat-out wrong. So why are doctors – to a striking extent – still drawing upon misinformation in their everyday practice? Dr. John Ioannidis has spent his career challenging his peers by exposing their bad science.”

If, as many even in the medical field and popular press have posited, if this ‘epidemic’ is more widespread than commonly believed, that means that the declared death rates could be far, far lower than are being suggested. It has also been suggested that the typical symptoms are far less dangerous in the average victim than the most extreme threats to the severely immune compromised people. Acknowledging some of these possibilities, and thinking rationally, just might lower the fear factor a bit, and generate more rational responses to a more realistic threat.

Not to downplay death, but hundreds of thousands of people die every year from what is called flu or pneumonia, not to mention countless other causes. Pneumonia is also not normally tested for the presence of a virus, but is simply what the medical field terms the process of fluid gathering in the lungs, which is very common in the elderly and dying, virus or no. Could it not be reasonably suggested that it is simply a normal symptom of the body shutting down from various causes, be they old age, disease or extreme trauma?

I am not being flippant, or devaluing anyone, but I am amazed at this great fear of dying. We all die. We could get cancer, be in a car accident, or succumb to a viral disease today, tomorrow or at any time. I’m just wondering why it seems, all of a sudden, we appear to not comprehend that death is a normal part of life which we all must face and privately deal with.

There are people who choose to put trust in their God-given immune systems as their best, albeit not failsafe, hope of living a reasonably long and healthy life. These people are not fools, cranks or dismissive of the value of others. Many of them have advanced degrees, and have devoted their lives to studying such practices.

They have simply looked at the reality of the health state in our world, and have made the choice that a reasonable health option is following traditional, commonly understood health-supporting practices like getting enough nutrition, sleep, exercise, etc.

I heard someone dismissively saying such people would ‘saw their own arm off’ before they would seek medical care. I am not sure most are that extreme. I did not stay home and bleed to death when I experienced hemorrhaging a few years back; but I do normally prefer to support my health through natural, traditional means in anything other than trauma care. Nor is this a threat to anyone else.

Whatever health practices individuals choose to pursue, there is not yet, as far as I know, any assurance of never being exposed to pathogens, toxins or any other known cause of death. There is much talk of the importance of vaccines, but the truth is, the most a vaccine can possibly do is increase your own personal immunity. They do not create a forcefield that makes pathogens unable to invade. This is the myth that has gone unaddressed. If viral pathogens exist, people will be exposed to and carry them, vaccine or no vaccine. I would assert that the claims of herd immunity would fall under Ioannidis’ description of common medical beliefs that are “misleading, exaggerated, or flat-out wrong”.

I have lost a father, mother-in-law and father-in-law in the last few years, long before any global pandemic arrived. They were elderly and in poor health, and like all in this category, eventually died. I have a mother who is 86 years old, still lives on her own, and is in generally good health, but neither she nor I doubt that her days are numbered. As are yours and mine. This is the reality of human life.

I know this blog is very pro-allopathic medicine. Everyone has the right to make such a choice. Bu the reality is, people lived and thrived long before modern medicine came along. In fact, before ‘modern’ health problems were brought into existence by ‘modern’ living practices, we had little need of much of the now essential ‘modern’ medicine.

Laugh me down, but personally, I am much more concerned about the multiple toxins and non-natural substances with which we have poisoned our air, water, food and our own physical bodies with than I am any known or unknown viral pathogen.

I happen to believe that God did a pretty darn good job designing the human body. The human immune system was designed, if properly supported, to protect people from pathogens and minor toxification. This is supported not only by much medical literature, but the continuing existence of life on earth long before the arrival of modern medicine.

I just thought it was perhaps time that at least one voice suggested that there are some people in this world who fear less the pathogens they must confront than the governments and the damage they can do in their management thereof. Especially when the freedom of choice and movement is determined expendable in the pursuit of so-called ‘safety’.

Ok, shoot me.

dee: You won’t get a fight from me. I believe in freedom of conscience.

That’s all I ever ask: allowing people the freedom of their own conscience. 😉 I appreciate your response.

Samuel Conner,

Sorry about the surplus text at the end; bad editing on my part.

—-

NYC medical system moving toward “overwhelmed”, with 10-fold increase in identified cases in one week. We are going to pay for not being able to aggressively contact trace and test in prior weeks.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/coronavirus-in-ny-deluge-of-cases-begins-hitting-hospitals/ar-BB11tKpb?ocid=spartanntp

the shortage of ventilators for severe pneumonia patients is a particular problem.

TS00,

I agree that the data out of Wuhan are incomplete; the case fatality rate in that province is likely to exceed the true rate under conditions of normal hospital functioning — Wuhan’s hospitals were overwhelmed, as northern Italy’s have been. I think this has less power to interpret the data from the rest of China, where the epidemic was kept under control from a much earlier stage.

I’m curious how this proposal eases the alarm that one might be inclined to feel in contemplation of what has happened in Italy, or appears to be starting to happen in NYC.

Perhaps we should be expanding our hospices rather than our hospitals to deal the anticipated high case load? That sounds snarky but is not intended to. We either control the epidemic or deal, in one way or another, with the looming large numbers of pneumonia patients.

TS00,

I think this is the kind of discussion that we (humanity) are going to need to have, and soon.

I’m reminded of the story of Nicholas Alkemade (wikipedia article linked here). Alkemade was the tail-gunner in a bomber during the second world war; his plane was attacked and caught fire. The fire on board destroyed his parachute, and he made the split-second choice that he would rather die suddenly in an impact than be burned alive, so he jumped from the plan at 18000 feet. Remarkably, he survived with relatively minor injuries. But the reason I’m citing his story is the decision he took.

I, like perhaps most other Wartburgers (and certainly millions of other people) have an elderly mother. We watched my Dad die, she most closely of all of us, ultimately from pneumonia; but really it happened over years. His quality of life dropped off to almost nothing through immobility. He didn’t exercise, which meant he grew weaker, which meant he couldn’t exercise. His immobility was crippling and debilitating. But at least he had constant daily contact with other human beings.

COVID-19 is one form of coronavirus; there are many others, most of which are not serious – they are responsible for the common cold. There are effective vaccines against many diseases, but the common cold produces a relatively weak immune response and [generic] you can catch the same cold more than once in your lifetime. IOW, it’s possible that there may never be a very effective vaccine against COVID-19, nor any true herd immunity. The pandemic, therefore, may last not for weeks or even months, but forever.

If we are now in a reality where the common cold can be fatal, we’re going to have to think differently. We’re in a new normal, in other words. But the new normal cannot be lockdown. My mother, and many others like her, are already in a position that will sooner or later directly damage her physical and mental health. Ultimately, they face a miserable lingering death in isolation – indeed, death from isolation.

In any case, a society in paralysis cannot indefinitely support the hospitals and ventilators it wants. Another reason why lockdown cannot be the new normal. Like a body in allergic shock, if society does nothing but fight the coronavirus, then society will lose that fight.

As you pointed out, every one of us is mortal. We do not have any form of medicine, allopathic or otherwise, that can make us otherwise. Like Alkemade, we may simply have to acknowledge that we have a choice of ways to embrace death.

Nick Bulbeck,

I too suspect that we are going to see a “new normal”, and that we might have chronic pandemic viral pneumonia.

I hope that the world’s adaptation to this is not simply a return to the prior normal, with a tolerance for 18th Century rates of infectious disease mortality.

One thing that the shutdowns are reminding us of is that some forms of economic activity are more “essential” than others. I’m not sure that mass spectator sport, which is a superb venue for disease propagation, is really as important as it seems to be to so many.

Friend: I do want you to know what angers me. Preacher Jonathan Shuttlesworth is saying vile things about churches that close. The man opposes hand washing. He’s calling for certain American coastal states and cities to be hit hardest by this disease—oh sorry, prophesying that this will happen.

Did a search on that name. Woo…
Described as “Televangelist”, Tampa FL area.
Claims only “pansies and sissies” wash their hands. (Sounds like a five-year-old.)
That America will be “minimally affected” because of “our Support for Israel”.

And that was only on the first page of hits.

Friend: Preacher Jonathan Shuttlesworth is saying vile things about churches that close. The man opposes hand washing. He’s calling for certain American coastal states and cities to be hit hardest by this disease—oh sorry, prophesying that this will happen.

The specific cities and states are WA, OR, CA, and NYC, all with pithy comments about HOMOSEXUALITY and ABORTION.

He also claims COVID-19 is a “Deep State Population Control” plot.

If he’s like others of his ilk, this guy will have a FANATICAL base.
As in “The Dwarfs are for The Dwarfs! We Won’t Be Taken In!”
Just how big/influential is he?