Word fail me on this one…a proper response to Mr. Piper would take more words than the post. John Piper obfuscating as usual is not worth the thought.

But, I love your dog stories. How wonderful that you are able to do it. I think the First Peoples legends are correct-they are our First and So Loyal Friends.

Everyone needs that in this sinful world that has so many sorrows.

You must be under tremendous stress frequently with TWW-I am just praising God that you have some furry babies to love and care for.

I just read an article the other day on the Guardian saying that long-winded speech may be an early sign of Alzheimer’s/ dementia…

The other facet is these guys would begrudge you the comfort and companionship of a pet just to wring every last penny out of you for their own personal use. What a bunch of frauds and nit pickers.

“She loves people more than food. She overflows with affection without testing your character first. She is indomitably happy, rain or shine. She holds no grudges whatsoever, no matter how she is treated. Her youth at eight seems to be renewed like the eagles. So, if you, Father, so taught a beast with no soul, no moral or spiritual capacities, to live that kind of life, how much more should her master feel ashamed that even with the Holy Spirit I struggle to do those things?”

Let’s just take this alleged psychotic rant in my opinion apart a bit. “She loves people more than food”, I have seen folks who are very hungry, and it’s well terrible, from what I have read and from the observations I have seen it is so pervasive and primal it is overwhelming. Kids just cry or the hollow look of empty eyes, they don’t love much in the way Piper needs to be loved. From what I observe.

This one is critical to most of the subjects here.

“She overflows with affection without testing your character first.”

Just look at that, giving affection apart from character if that does not just breed abuse foster many of the ills discussed here this is a cornerstone of abuse. Giving affection, support, authority, silence, etc apart from Character. The bible is the exact opposite, God came to us out of character and won a hearing giving us His all.

“So, if you, Father, so taught a beast with no soul, no moral or spiritual capacities,”

My irony meter just broke on that one.

“how much more should her master”
Red alert abuse meter I really do not think Piper gets this at all. As for his blabbering about not giving too much for “pets”, I think about police dogs, dogs that serve our military, therapeutic/service animals of all types, sheep dogs, rescue dogs, cats of course and so on. No offense but this man’s “god” is way to small.

This is a classic from JP. I love that, of course, JPs dog is perfect. I was waiting for JP to say that Dusty is a Gospel-Centered pet.

More simplistic ascetics and Nirvana from Piper. I always get a kick of how these article are titled with a question, as if you are going to be surprised that he comes up with the most extreme answer possible.

So, if your conscience is indicting you for the money you spend or the time you spend combing your dog’s fur or scratching her behind the ears, you should stop, stop.

Piper is ridiculous. Someone needs to send him to the house, as we say at work!

Stuff anyone who tells me what to do with my pets. My view is, God is love. Anything love we give is not wasted.

Now, lastly, with regard to specific pets being raised from the dead, that would, I think, be pure speculation. The only biblical point of it that might cause you to think that would be that God intends you to be fully happy with him. And if the presence of that pet is essential for you to know and love God that way, I suspect he will be there.

With that line of thought, we should not assume that human beings will be raised from the dead. After all, we only need Jesus. To heck with grandma. She can stay dead in eternity.

Also, at what point does caring for, say, children, or for injured people, the sickly, etc., begin to constitute a distraction from God? Let’s not spend too much money on little Johnny getting a new heart. He can just die. We need to send more missionaries to bring good news to people! Good news, everyone! God loved you so much, that led a family to let their son Johnny die rather than get a new heart so that they could pay us to tell you all about how much God loves you!

If you take Piper’s argument to its logical conclusion you’d end up needing to become a hermit in the desert praying 24/7.

MidwesternEasterner, you read my mind. The first thing I thought was monasticism. After all, monks and nuns have historically been the best practitioners of “Christian Hedonism”. And if you whip yourself enough, you’ll even feel ecstatic about Jesus! I can really feel the Holy Spirit as my back is bleeding and all those endorphins are released.

(I hope I have not offended my Catholic friends by bringing up the most extreme forms of monasticism. My point is that Piper belongs with the extreme ones. There have been many wonderful, moderate practitioners of monasticism in church history whom I admire.)

Siteseer wrote:

(Of course, John Piper is justified in having a dog because his is the Perfect Godly Dog, LOL!! And I’m calling BS on a lot of that, too, ha ha)

Everything this man says is ridiculous!!! She holds no grudges no matter what you do make me wonder what he is doing to her. She loves people more than food makes me wonder if she had ever been hungry. He just says this stuff, and it’s all nonsense.

I like dogs just fine, but come on. He probably never takes care of it anyway.

Quote of an unknown source:

“I wish I was the kind of person my dog thinks I am”

@ molly245:
Yes!
@ Siteseer:
Yes!
Would it be narcissistic to begrudge a church member’s attention to, and affection with, their dog so that they can be more centered on (enslaved to) the Dear Leader’s Dynasty (“church”)? Control much?

Our Heavenly Father is so much more loving and less a task master than the Dear Leader.

God is love. As the earlier TWW post eloquently elaborates, lack of love is missing the mark. http://bit.ly/2mgqFw0

Lea wrote:

So, if your conscience is indicting you for the money you spend or the time you spend combing your dog’s fur or scratching her behind the ears, you should stop, stop.

Piper is ridiculous. Someone needs to send him to the house, as we say at work!

Stuff anyone who tells me what to do with my pets. My view is, God is love. Anything love we give is not wasted.

Our dog is part ‘silky terrier’ which means he has the most beautiful ‘hair’ which grows fast. With the exception of the deep winter months of Dec. and Jan., I get him groomed or he passes for a small bear. The money? I get my hair cut once a year. Last time, it was at Walmart. I tipped the girl who cut it more than the haircut cost.

As for the medical care? Top of the line Plan from Banfield Hospital which includes dental cleaning under anesthesia once a year.
Guilty?

Nope

Not at all.

The little one is in my care. I will do what I can for him. And some things are not to be reckoned. I can give up a lot of needless expense to reel in money for good purposes,
but that dog’s care is not one of them.

DOG$ RULE!!!! says shameless me. 🙂

@ Clockwork Angel:
Does Piper not know that ALL CREATION awaits its redemption????

That includes all creatures great and small whose lives have come from the Hand of the Creator and whose lives are in His keeping.

Lea wrote:

Everything this man says is ridiculous!!!

You have taken words right out of my mouth!

thanks for this post, DEE

loved it!

Here’s an interesting and apposite tidbit from Islam:

“A man walking along a path felt very thirsty. Reaching a well, he descended into it, drank his fill, and came up. Then he saw a dog with its tongue hanging out, trying to lick up mud to quench its thirst. The man said, “This dog is feeling the same thirst that I felt.” So he went down into the well again, filled his shoe with water, and gave the dog a drink. So, God thanked him and forgave his sins. The Prophet was asked, “Messenger of God, are we rewarded for kindness towards animals?” He said: {There is a reward for kindness to every living animal or human.}”

If you haven’t seen this yet, enjoy. You will forget all about Piper’s nonsense, promise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H17edn_RZoY

Christiane wrote:

DOG$ RULE!!!!

THEOLOGIANS DROOL!!!!

Ken F wrote:

That post could only come from a totally deprave mind.

God help me, I checked out that post. I will never again pollute my mind and soul with the utterances of this freak. He needs to just go away. Doesn’t he have any friends who can tell him to just shut up?

@ dee:

Strawberry (my black lab a few years ago) was a therapy dog. She brought such joy to people, particularly older people in the nursing homes – you could just see their faces light up. If I am ever in such a situation, I sure do hope someone will bring a dog to visit me…

I often feel that the relation between a dog and its master is a model, admittedly a very imperfect one, between us and our infinite Master. After 50+ years of having dogs, often more than one, as pets we, my wife and I, are down to just one, a 6 pound 12 year old chihuahua, a truly intriguing little bundle of personality. She will occasionally leave something on the floor that needs to be cleaned up but we always forgive her just as we expect to be forgiven for our transgressions.

dee wrote:

There are many lonely people in the world that the church is not reaching. I think pets are God’s way of showing us love.

Indeed. My family and I happen to be those “lonely” people (to some degree…due to the church) who benefit from the friendship of animals. Should have qualified my statement as such “…many an American…” since I have thirty years of being inside people homes (affluent area) day in and day out. I could write a book. 🙂

I like dogs, but my hubby and I have 3 cats. Latest one adopted us about a month ago. My cats have brought untold joy to me. Many times, when I have been ill, my Siamese cat (the original Harley) comes in and lays next to me, and lets me pet her. That is healing in so many ways. When I am lying in bed when I shouldn’t be, our male cat comes and checks on me to make sure I’m ok. These 2 cats are so totally loving and bring so much joy to us. Not sure about the 3rd cat yet. But I think she’s ok. She got spayed today. I guarantee my Siamese talks back to me. I ask her things, and she responds with a yeah, or a nay. So funny. I thank God for my furry friends that God has blessed us with.

Christiane wrote:

He needs to be healed.

That’s a much better formulation, thank you! 🙂

Tsrs wrote:

But of course, cats are from the Devil

Prolly so ……… my coon hound can’t stand ’em.

dee wrote:

Have you ever seen a dog deprived of food? The human is back burnered at that point.

We have 4 dogs. 2 from a shelter, 1 from a neighbor, and 1 who was abandoned. The abandoned one is a full blooded Great Pyrenees who was starved, beaten, and abandoned as a young pup in the bottoms about a mile from my house back in Jan. 2008. A timber cutting crew kept him alive, barely, with their lunch scraps. The first few times I saw him, I thought he was a sick, old dog ……. Looking for a comfortable place to die. Then, one day he let me get close enough to see his eyes – broke my heart – he was only a puppy! When the crew left in April, Bumble D. finally ambled out to the end of our long driveway. My husband saw Bum when he left to run errands and threw snack crackers he had in the truck to him. He stayed. At that point, he was about 9 months old. He was covered in ticks and flees, so we bathed him. He was literally skin, bone, and fur. He was so weak, he could barely walk. We didn’t know if he would live. He was afraid to eat. ……. the first few days, he would only eat directly from my hands.. ……… He was never a puppy, he was too weak to be a puppy. It took him a year to recover under our care and gain strength enough to trot. Would go on long walks with us, and we would have to stop and wait for him because he moved so slowly.
The first time I came out of the house with my BBQ utensils, he ran. ……. Same thing with drop cords. The first 200 times I picked up a fly swatter, he ran. He was terrified of children. ……… The first Chistmas he was with us, he was afraid of the lights. And there is so much more to his story.
He grew big ….. big even for a GP …… and strong, and comfortable, and happy. He guards our home. He is afraid of no one. I don’t think he remembers the bad times.
He is old and arthritic now, but still when I look at him, I see God’s grace, mercy, glory, and love. Everyone who knew Bumbles way back when sees the same things. They’ve told me so.
If John Piper came to my home, I hope my coon hound would chase him up a tree!

My dogs are keeping me warm on my lap and feet.
Mr. Piper is trying to keep himself relevant, I guess.
He’s failing miserably.
My dogs and I know: life is to honor God and be good to each other.
Soli Deo gloria!

All Trolls wrote:

My dogs are keeping me warm on my lap and feet.

I have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. One of the problems from it is pain in my legs, especially at night. When we go to bed at night one of our dogs ( Allie and Amos Moses swap up) will get in the bed and lay across my legs. The resulting pressure on my muscles relieves my pain so that I can sleep. God is good that way.

@ dee:

For a second I thought I stumbled had into a Babylon Bee write up.

http://www.mommypage.com/2014/05/lost-toddler-found-alive-after-loyal-dog-protected-him/
IMHO, events like this point to God’s glory, rather than distract from it.

Lydia wrote:

The fact that an actual adult asked Piper that question about pets is what scares me the most.

We don’t even know if real people are asking him questions. I sent him a question that he never answered. It was a substantial question. Maybe he can only respond to silly.

Linn wrote:

For some it’s books, for others the outdoors and others their pets. For me, having a pet is another way to experience the goodness of God.

For me, it’s books, the outdoors, and my other-species friends. I hope that my dogs feel as lucky to be with us here as we do to have them here.

And as far as the separation is concerned, I’ve dealt with that many, many, many times. You will almost certainly outlive your dog/cat/whatever. It’s part of the package, and there’s a lesson in there somewhere no doubt.

It’s all good.

Ken F wrote:

I find myself shocked that more people don’t see the problem with him.

I felt the same way about Park Fiscal, I mean Mark Driscoll (where is Nick these days?)

The problem is clear – no one reads their Bible anymore, and so they are prey to any fancy-talking clown that comes along. It’s quite pathetic, really.

My other thoughts/ pets teach empathy that is often transferred to human relationships. Children also learn about life and death through separation from a beloved pet. There are successful programs where prisoners rehab dogs so that they can be adopted. Pets are very valuable in the human sphere!

Linn wrote:

My control freak Cat came to me from some friends who could no longer keep her.

We ended up with a cat because a kitten showed up in the neighbors back yard. I am much more of a dog person, but the cat, now a little more than a year old, greets me at the door when I come home (but the dog still gets there first). This cat thing could grow on me…

Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist wrote:

I don’t find it odd at all that he could think that a canine might thwart God’s great quest to gobble up every scrap of “glory” that He possible can.

That “God’s Great Quest” reminds me so much of “the bloated spider analogy” from the Preface to Screwtape Letters.

@ dee:
My coworkers used to say I’d be surrounded by cats, who would try to eat me.

@ kin:

“I’d agree that it’s very true Americans spend enormous amounts on their pets while ignoring significantly weightier matters in life”
++++++++++++++++++++

what proof do you have that Americans who spend enormous amounts on their pets ignore significantly weightier matters in life?

I love dogs! Our Missy has given my husband and I so much pleasure. She has made us laugh and brought enjoyment into our lives that hitherto was not present. As empty-nesters, our home became somewhat gloomy and sad. When Missy entered our lives, all that changed. Everyday she amuses us with her sparky personality, or what I might call dognality. 😉

MidwesternEasterner wrote:

The whole “don’t do X, Y, or Z because it’s all a distraction from God” reminds me of ISIS threatening to blow up Qatar’s World Cup stadium because soccer is a distraction from Islam. It seems to me that either everything in life is a distraction from God, or nothing is. If you take Piper’s argument to its logical conclusion you’d end up needing to become a hermit in the desert praying 24/7.

Or perhaps the take-away is that Christians should be attending every church service, involved in all the extra-curricular activities that go on at the church, be giving 10% of their Gross Income to the church, volunteering at all the church events, attend the Gospel Glitterati Conferences, buy Piper’s and all the other Neo-Calvinist’s books, and be re-Tweeting Piper Points in their spare moments. 😉

I call Piper’s Christianity hyper spirituality on steroids, to the point where one’s humanity is suppressed. In Piper’s World, to have human pleasures is considered unspiritual. One must constantly be naval gazing throughout the day, consumed with whether or not what they are doing at that moment is pleasing to God. I can relate to this. Yes, again it is an example from living in my former Christian cult. I, and another sister in the Lord, were planning to go out to a restaurant to enjoy eating out one evening. We had saved up our allowance money (remember this was a cult), and the time came when we had saved up enough to go out to eat. We decided on a lovely Asian restaurant that was in our neighborhood. During the earlier part of the day that we had planned to eat out, I began to feel guilty. I started to wonder if going out to eat was the best use of our time. I wondered if it was the best use of our money. Still, even with these reservations, I went out to eat with my friend. But I couldn’t enjoy it because the whole time I kept worrying about if our eating out activity was pleasing to God. I kept bringing it up at the conversation during that dinner, which I think must have irritated my friend, although she said nothing to that effect.

Navel gazing, scrutinizing the belly button, wringing one’s hands over every minute detail in one’s daily activities as to whether or not it is pleasing to God. This is Piper’s Christianity. And it is harmful to a person’s sanity.

Christiane wrote:

@ Clockwork Angel:
Does Piper not know that ALL CREATION awaits its redemption????
That includes all creatures great and small whose lives have come from the Hand of the Creator and whose lives are in His keeping.

Exactly, Christiane. Piper does not know his Bible in this regard. ALL CREATION includes our pets. Sigh….

Christiane wrote:

Thanks for sharing that. It’s beautiful!
There is much in Islam that ‘translates’ for someone like me who shares an Abrahamic faith together with the Jews and the Muslims: a focus on the goodness of the One Creator God.

It’s indeed beautiful! Thanks goes out to roebuck for sharing that bit from the Qu’ran. Kindness and doing the right thing are universal to all faiths in spite of what the haters want to sway us with.
Here’s what Erasmus had to say:

“Whatever is pious and conduces to good manners ought not to be called profane.
The first place must indeed be given to the authority of the Scriptures; but, nevertheless, I sometimes find some things said or written by the ancients, nay, even by the heathens, nay, by the poets themselves, so chastely, so holily, and so divinely, that I cannot persuade myself but that, when they wrote them, they were divinely inspired, and perhaps the spirit of Christ diffuses itself farther than we imagine; and that there are more saints than we have in our catalogue.”

The first thing I would say is: Surely, yes, Piper can take up too much of your time and too much of your money…

Kristen Rosser wrote:

A person whose conscience is indicting him or her for loving and caring for her pet, has a problem with an overactive, legalistic hyper-conscience. And it’s anti-love. Piper is basically saying, “Take this creature who loves and trusts you, whose life revolves around you, and reject and abandon it because you love it too much.” This is WRONG.

Conscience is very much like Jiminy Cricket sitting on your shoulder, always admonishing you (generic you) as to what’s right and what’s wrong.
Pier sprayed his with DDT long ago.

@ Bill M:
AMEN and AMEN!

God must have had something special in mind when He created dogs. There is still time for Piper to find out what it may be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIrDbzoOxZc

Ken F wrote:

Stan wrote:
I always get a kick of how these article are titled with a question, as if you are going to be surprised that he comes up with the most extreme answer possible.
This one is the worst I have seen from Piper – posted only a few weeks ago: http://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/was-jesus-a-christian-hedonist. That post could only come from a totally deprave mind.

And taking into consideration what an actual hedonist is, we must conclude that Piper has gone off the rails and wandered into Bizzaro World.

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/hedonist

Should I convert to neo-Calvinism, just so that I can say that my dogs, as well my daughter’s horse, were all chosen before the foundations of the earth and were predestined to go to Heaven???

Tree wrote:

Oh, for the love of Rover. Can the man just not let a sleeping dog lie? No. No, he can’t. He gnaws at the question like he’s going after a bothersome flea. A normal, reasonable pastor, if asked if it is too much of a distraction from God to own a pet, would say, “I’m sure you and God can decide that for yourself.” The tail is wagging the dog here and the Piper disciples will be slobbering all over this one, I’m sure. Fortunately, that dog won’t hunt for most of us. We will have our dogs and glorify God, too.
And it’s plain to see from his description of Dusty Piper that she is a perfect complimentarian dog. Completely devoted to her master. Always happy. Overflows with affection without testing your character first. Holds no grudge no matter how she is treated. Yessiree, she is a perfect model of complentarianism.

Tree: You are Spot On!

Muff Potter wrote:

Conscience is very much like Jiminy Cricket sitting on your shoulder, always admonishing you (generic you) as to what’s right and what’s wrong.
Pier sprayed his with DDT long ago.

With apologies to H.U.G, it is a bug, not a feature…

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/americans-spent-a-record-56-billion-on-pets-last-year/

“Pets across America live like little humans these days – and as long as people treat them that way, pet spending should keep climbing…”

“The humanization of our pets started about 20 years ago, Vetere said in a telephone interview. As people made pets more important parts of their families, manufacturers introduced products that, in the beginning, helped the animals make their move from the backyard to the front room.”

I reckon 100 years ago (and beyond) the overwhelming majority of people in America would have a moral issue with this phenomena.

http://newstarget.com/2016-02-23-usda-approves-slaughterhouses-producing-horse-meat-for-human-consumption.html

The horse rescue places around us have spent millions of dollars in buying farms, equipment, advertising for free help, etc. just to keep horses alive. They are going nuts about the idea of eating a horse. But economics don’t matter to them. Nor does the possibility of feeding people in need.

John Piper can distract you from giving God glory.

I am not going to have time to read all the comments before leaving the house to undoubtedly *waste* money with our boys on a fun time up at Entertrainment Junction. I will just say this.

1. John Piper is a basket case. He needs either therapy or good pastor to talk to. I’m serious about that.

2. He obviously hates cats. Perhaps he will dwell in the cat-free section of heaven or the New Earth. The rest of us will be enjoying these wonderful felines. That is all.

@ Clay Crouch:
Lol! That could be his own Magnum opus for DG.

According to the American Pet Products Association, Americans spend $60 billion (yes, billion) per year on their pets. I’m sure Piper, Mahaney et al. would dearly love to see some of those billions in their coffers.

The main thing you need to know about pets and New Calvinism is that pets love you unconditionally … New Calvinists don’t.

I personally think that JP is just a cruel man. His dog loves him now matter “how” she is treated? Isn’t that what he expects of wives/women? The Bible also says that a righteous person cares for their animals. Jesus wore a crown of thorns because he came to redeem his creation.

So, we can really say now “John Piper is gone to the dogs!”

Man, this guy sucks the fun out of everything.
Dogs have had symbiotic relationship with humans before there was even civilization. Yes, even before Abraham started his grand trek. Probably he had dogs.

@ Lydia:

“I do think when people are stranded during a catastrophe, it seems OTT the very rich send in planes to rescue zoo animals first.”
++++++++++++++++++

well, they had the means to do it. while rescue workers are focused on people, i’m glad there are others who don’t forget animals.

kind of like treasures like Yosemite. if people didn’t care about preserving it, it would have been destroyed by now. the granite mountains would still be there, but the rest would be polluted, devoted to commerce, & subdivided into expensive private lots.

animals and nature are vulnerable to being exploited and made a low priority. i am glad people are able to devote resources to these things to help balance things out.

not that you disagree with any of this.

Bill M wrote:

The first thing I would say is: Surely, yes, Piper can take up too much of your time and too much of your money…

ABSOLUTELY!!

kin wrote:

The horse rescue places around us have spent millions of dollars in buying farms, equipment, advertising for free help, etc. just to keep horses alive. They are going nuts about the idea of eating a horse. But economics don’t matter to them.

I’m having trouble understanding what your saying here. If you are saying some people go overboard, I can agree to some extent. If your opinion extends to basic animal shelters and people taking care of rescue animals, I have a problem with it. I don’t believe that all animals who are not being cared for should be put down. Over my 52 years, I have owned several rescue dogs and a rescue horse – a mustang mare.
I am definitely not a vegan, but I believe all of God’s creatures deserve mercy. When Balaam beat his donkey, God intervened.

Max wrote:

The main thing you need to know about pets and New Calvinism is that pets love you unconditionally … New Calvinists don’t.

This made my day!

I looked again at the last sentence of Piper’s quote….and he invokes “godly” shame as a motivator…

WRONG– for the Christian, there is no shame in the relationship to God. Romans 8:1 clearly says “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus…”

The Holy Spirit is Love whispering gently in my ear “Let’s take a look at this issue”…..

Shame is False Guilt/Legalism…..which is a terrible motivator and unscriptural to boot.

When you hear about shame—as one of my favorite preachers says “God has left the building.”

roebuck wrote:

Ken F wrote:
That post could only come from a totally deprave mind.
God help me, I checked out that post. I will never again pollute my mind and soul with the utterances of this freak. He needs to just go away. Doesn’t he have any friends who can tell him to just shut up?

That is true you would think, in my opinion, they are not his friends, he is a means to an end. Nothing at all else, that is the sacrament of utilitarianism a central rite of the American Religion.

In Judaism, tradition says that Adam named each animal in accordance with the essence of that animal’s soul;
correspondingly, the Hebrew name for a dog is “kelev” which is derived from ‘kulo lev’ which means ‘all heart’

Lydia wrote:

My stepfather is almost 100. His clearest memories of his childhood is his beloved dog we have heard all about. He grew up poor on a remote tiny farm. That dog walked all the way to school with him and was there when it let out. He views that dog as his protector and best friend. That dog was by him in the fields while he was working.

Almost 100 years later, therapy dogs are used in nursing homes and assisted living venues.

I do think when people are stranded during a catastrophe, it seems OTT the very rich send in planes to rescue zoo animals first.

Cool story. My oldest has trained a therapy dog and had gotten it certified to be used at the local hospitals…John Hopkins as well. Rewarding venture for sure.

Nancy2 wrote:

kin wrote:

The horse rescue places around us have spent millions of dollars in buying farms, equipment, advertising for free help, etc. just to keep horses alive. They are going nuts about the idea of eating a horse. But economics don’t matter to them.

I’m having trouble understanding what your saying here. If you are saying some people go overboard, I can agree to some extent. If your opinion extends to basic animal shelters and people taking care of rescue animals, I have a problem with it. I don’t believe that all animals who are not being cared for should be put down. Over my 52 years, I have owned several rescue dogs and a rescue horse – a mustang mare.
I am definitely not a vegan, but I believe all of God’s creatures deserve mercy. When Balaam beat his donkey, God intervened.

Glad to see people rescuing abused animals, but not to the radical nonsensical degree it has gone in many cases.

Nancy2 wrote:

Maybe like a billionaire leaving their entire fortune to their poodle?

Exactly. That’s nuts. Should have gone to the cats instead.

@ Ken F:
Hah! you confess now !!! I shall make sure that See Ay’ Tee knows this ! (Ken named the cat but I picked the spelling). It is a boy cat. We have all been learning “cat language” around here, including our catahoula…..

well, I don’t discriminate …..

my mother passed away and my father’s grief counselor was a wonderful Methodist pastor who worked at their Catholic assisted-living facility

my father passed away eight years later, and my grief counselor was a small black pup who came near when I was heavy with the sadness and who placed a paw on me if I was weeping

I think the Good Lord had something to do with both comforters and I am very, very thankful

we take too much for granted …. we shouldn’t do that

Lydia wrote:

My stepfather is almost 100. His clearest memories of his childhood is his beloved dog we have heard all about.

We know the names of animals who died 50/100/1000 years ago. Loving animals is not a new phenomenon.

Why is anyone surprised when John Piper pulls a “one for me none for thee” move?

Max wrote:

The main thing you need to know about pets and New Calvinism is that pets love you unconditionally … New Calvinists don’t.

On the other hand is the dislike of dogs another similarity New Calvinists share with Islam?

Ken F wrote:

Dang. I need to remember to shut down TWW windows when I step away from the computer…

I’m sure your wife already had your number, anyway!

Bill M wrote:

On the other hand is the dislike of dogs another similarity New Calvinists share with Islam?

Actually, I know several New Calvinists. I don’t think, as a tribe, they hate pets … many I know have pets. This is just Piper being weird again.

The glory of God cannot be found in Piper Points, but in a continual revelation of who Jesus is.

@ Lydia:

I love animals and nature. I observe that the forces which desire to carve up land for commerce are so powerful — were it not for opposing forces standing up to them, nature, animals, and open space wouldn’t stand a chance. Redwood forests would be cleared. San Francisco Bay would be a polluted puddle. The Grand Canyon would be filled with water. Who knows what would have happened to Yosemite, Yellowstone, and other places. The beauty of it all creates quality of life for all of us.

i’ll stop.

however, i recognize that things can get unreasonable. water politics are a hot issue in California. in the last several years water has been diverted from farmers in the central valley for the sake of the endangered delta smelt. Observing the skeletal remains of numerous dead orchards and the broken dreams and livelihoods they represent is very sad and troubling. i value people above all.

but crickets of all kinds to the persons and bedrooms of exploiting profiteers. i’m being very polite.

elastigirl wrote:

however, i recognize that things can get unreasonable. water politics are a hot issue in California. in the last several years water has been diverted from farmers in the central valley for the sake of the endangered delta smelt. Observing the skeletal remains of numerous dead orchards and the broken dreams and livelihoods they represent is very sad and troubling. i value people above all.

About once a year, I have occasion to drive I-5 down the Central Valley. For the past couple years, I’ve been seeing farm trailers with signs parked along the freeway like impromptu billboards:
POLITICIAN CAUSED WATER CRISIS!
GROWING FOOD IS NOT WASTING WATER!
RESTRICTED WATER DELIVERY ZONE — THANK YOU DELTA SMELT!
FARMS! NOT BURRET TRAINS!
THIS DROUGHT BROUGHT TO YOU BY SACRAMENTO!

The last time I drove that route was a month ago. The signs were still there, but with one major change: Every one was now accompanied by a new sign:
MAKE
AMERICA
GREAT
AGAIN

Max wrote:

The main thing you need to know about pets and New Calvinism is that pets love you unconditionally … New Calvinists don’t.

That’s why they’re so dead set against pets.
The Word of Calvin cannot stomach even an animal that can love unconditionally.

Ken F wrote:

We don’t even know if real people are asking him questions. I sent him a question that he never answered. It was a substantial question. Maybe he can only respond to silly.

Maybe he can only respond to shills.

roebuck wrote:

Anyway, the idea that having and caring for a dog is questionable because it might deprive the church of money is sick. Why can’t people see these creeps as the money-grubbing slime-balls that they are? I am just baffled by this.

Somewhere on this blog’s comment threads there’s a report on a Pastor who actually encouraged/pressured the women in his church to have Abortions because the expense of bearing and raising a kid would interfere the church (and Pastor’s Pockets) of their Tithes.

elastigirl wrote:

Anyone who drives faster than “me” is a maniac, anyone who drives slower than “me” is a moron

I knew a comment thread like this couldn’t go on very long without somebody invoking George Carlin! 🙂

@ Steve Scott:
talk about helping someone to comprehend the depth of the pain they have caused ….

God was merciful to send Nathan to David

A very ancient Christian prayer asks Our Lord to help us to mourn because of our sins …. perhaps the story of God sending Nathan to David inspired that prayer

a long time ago, when I was first teaching, a little girl was coming to school every day smelling very badly and being teased (the children would ask us teachers to ‘open a window and let some fresh air in’) ….. I sent the child to the school nurse with a note to see if the nurse could counsel with the child about the problem. Turned out, the nurse called the parents and they realized the child was sleeping with her dog who was very old and had become incontinent ….. the parents gave the beloved dog away.

I have never got over this. It still makes me weep.

elastigirl wrote:

The Grand Canyon would be filled with water.

How? Why?

I mean I get your point, but I don’t see that one.

Ken F’s wife wrote:

@ Ken F:
Hah! you confess now !!! I shall make sure that See Ay’ Tee knows this ! (Ken named the cat but I picked the spelling). It is a boy cat. We have all been learning “cat language” around here, including our catahoula…..

Late at night, See Ay’ Tee (hahaHA!) reads the TWW comments, too. Probably even comments…

@ ishy:
I tried to name him C80, but my wife wouldn’t let me. I cannot understand why…

Bill M wrote:

Max wrote:
The main thing you need to know about pets and New Calvinism is that pets love you unconditionally … New Calvinists don’t.
On the other hand is the dislike of dogs another similarity New Calvinists share with Islam?

When I first read this I thought his position might come from the typical ‘micromanagement of others lives’ of New Calvinism and some of the OT proof texts about dogs. :o)

@ elastigirl:
I doubt poor people will be able to enjoy those things. But they do need water for quaily of life.

elastigirl wrote:

water politics are a hot issue in California. in the last several years water has been diverted from farmers in the central valley for the sake of the endangered delta smelt.

Agriculture is the life blood of any civilization. Sacramento had better pull their heads out of their… er… ah… well…, you get the picture. The growers have only to study the Israeli methods of high yield farming with limited water and the smelt can have their day too.

So ould JP deny a blind person a buide dog? My presumption is yes. Each takes about $100,000.00 to train, and then require lots of care and attention to keep working. Maybe the blind person who gets around because of said expensive dog, should simplyu sit home, collect government subsistence, and contemplate God instead. Except JP wouldn’t approve of collecting government subsistence money, so maybe that person should simply not exist.

This man makes me nauseated with his sanctimonious BS.Allie

@ Lydia:

“I doubt poor people will be able to enjoy those things.”
+++++++++

i understand that, lest you think otherwise.

@ dee:

oh… i’m getting blog posts mixed up. young earth creationism and dogs — never a dull moment around here.

@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
@ Lea:

Don’t ask me. I became a Christian as an adult, after satisfying my curiosity and realizing that was all I was doing. But it’s consistent with his infamous “down by the river” tweet. I’d like to see him or any of his colleagues get as excited about protecting women from domestic abuse as they do about protecting women from consensual non-copulative sexual contact with their boyfriend or fiancé.

Stan wrote:

@ ishy:
That’s kind of how it plays out in real Piper-preaching churches, everything you already do glorifies God if you think hard enough.

As I said, everything you already do glorifies God if you think hard enough.

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/why-the-oscars-matter-to-christians

Dog and Cat Theology.

When a dog is fed: “There must be a God.”

When a cat is fed: “I must be God.”

@ Steve Scott:

“It could have been a reverse deja vu space warp, er somethin’”
++++++++++++++++++

yeah, that’s just what i was thinking, reverse dejavu space warp. how many distortions of extreme space-time curvature would you say? 3? or maybe more like 6 or 7?

@ Christiane:

haven’t followed the news on that. now i’m sad.

Max wrote:

@ JeffB:
Dogs have Masters – Cats have Staff.

Uhmmmmm, if you guys really believe that, you should meet our black Lab./mix. ……. Lizzie,
aka Queen Elizabeth III.

Christiane wrote:

some day there will remain only films and photographic museums where our great grandkids can see what was their America before it became ‘great’

Makes me think of two films in the dystopian future genre:
Soylent Green and the screen version of David Mitchell’s Cloud Atlas

Ted wrote:

Coffee takes up too much of my time and money. I spend more on coffee than on cat food. And coffee could distract me from God.

I should quit coffee, and give all of that money to the church. Maybe split the donation between Piper’s church and Mahaney’s.

no way ….. Piper can just go and give up his tea habit and hand the money over to Mahaney ….. those two deserve each other

you ENJOY your coffee! It’s good for the soul.

elastigirl wrote:

@ Steve Scott:

“It could have been a reverse deja vu space warp, er somethin’”
++++++++++++++++++

yeah, that’s just what i was thinking, reverse dejavu space warp. how many distortions of extreme space-time curvature would you say? 3? or maybe more like 6 or 7?

Nine words: STAR TREK V’GER UNKNOWN SPACE ANOMALY OF THE WEEK.

@ Christiane:
Try to remember the working poor citizens who never get to enjoy it like you do.

Christiane wrote:

you ENJOY your coffee! It’s good for the soul.

The first sip of the morning usually brings a “Thank you Jesus” out of me.

And I love my cat. Our relationship has brought both of us closer to God. Speaking for myself, of course. She thinks she’s God.

Lydia wrote:

@ Christiane:
Try to remember the working poor citizens who never get to enjoy it like you do.

Actually, when my father was a teenager, he went to work for the CCC’s (Civilian Conservation Corps) and sent his pay home to his parents. Here is the kind of work my father did:
“During the time of the CCC, enrollees planted nearly 3 billion trees to help reforest America, constructed trails, lodges and related facilities in more than 800 parks nationwide and upgraded most state parks, updated forest fire fighting methods, and built a network of service buildings and public roadways in remote areas.
The CCC operated separate programs for veterans and Native Americans. Approximately 15,000 Native Americans participated in the program, helping them weather the Great Depression.”

@ Lydia:

Lydia, why do assume a person is ignorant of the plight of working poor citizens simply because they express a love for a national park?

I’m so glad I have JP around to give me advice on: pet ownership, women’s fitness, finess in general, and sex. This guy hasnt met a topic he won’t extensivly comment on.

Jason wrote:

This guy hasnt met a topic he won’t extensivly comment on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOR-8vMz4DI

Christiane wrote:

There was a ‘tree’ on which God made Himself vulnerable once, yes

Yes. This. It showed once and for all how unlike any other gods, The God of Abraham is. I can’t help but wonder though what could have been had the vineyard workers listened to the owner’s son and changed their ways rather than conspiring to have him murdered.

Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

Jason wrote:

This guy hasnt met a topic he won’t extensivly comment on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOR-8vMz4DI

That’s about right

Stan wrote:

Jason wrote:

I’m so glad I have JP around to give me advice on: pet ownership, women’s fitness, finess in general, and sex. This guy hasnt met a topic he won’t extensivly comment on.

Did you know that 401k matching does not glorify God?

http://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/should-i-invest-for-retirement

The list keeps on growing.Jason wrote:

Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

Jason wrote:

This guy hasnt met a topic he won’t extensivly comment on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOR-8vMz4DI

That’s about right

He spends the post using a lot of words and yet saying almost nothing.

Nancy2 wrote:

He has spent so much of his life with his nose in various books – or writing books – and doing little else

JP lives in an ivory tower and rings a bell for his wife to climb the stairs and bring him tea. He occasionally comes down from his roost to post something and wow us. For example, he tweeted today “When you are full to the brim, you will spill when bumped. What do people feel, acid or grace?” Wow, Daddy, wow!!

I knew I didn’t like Piper for some reason. Now I really don’t like him.

But DOGs do distract from God’s glory. DOGs, ie. Doctrines of (dis)Grace.

john smith wrote:

But DOGs do distract from God’s glory. DOGs, ie. Doctrines of (dis)Grace.

To a New Calvinist, there is one DOG.

@ Libby:
🙂
my daughter volunteered on Saturday mornings at an animal shelter cleaning cages and giving attention to the dogs ……. she said it was her therapy

This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. We got a kitten recently – helped greatly with my post-clergy abuse depression. Animals bring so much love.

Jason wrote:

Jason wrote:
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
Jason wrote:
This guy hasnt met a topic he won’t extensivly comment on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOR-8vMz4DI

That’s about right

He spends the post using a lot of words and yet saying almost nothing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S0FDjFBj8o

I’ve noticed that many children’s books feature dogs and cats doing human activities such as driving cars or cooking dinner. It almost seems easier to find children’s books illustrated with animals than people.

I wonder why our culture is OK with a picture of a rabbit grocery shopping – but not a woman in a Muslim headscarf? Why are hippos unwrapping birthday presents less offensive than a South Asian family celebrating a birthday?

@ Christiane:
Thank-you! One of Adam’s first jobs was with animals. I bet Jesus had a dog, or the dog adopted Jesus, per se, and followed Jesus more faithfully that many people of that time.

It’s sure a good thing that this preacher’s world doesn’t have any more pressing problems than that of his congregation having unconditional love from one of God’s creatures, not to mention that dog’s enhance security. His world is so very simple that the best sermon he could share of one of guilt for loving a dog (and making sure the coffers are filled)? Maybe, just maybe, we could pray that he might delve deeper into the more serious issues of the day from a biblical standpoint!

traci94 wrote:

I feel like he just wants us to sit there and gaze at God, whatever that looks like.

When I was in-country in the Seventies, I heard that said in exactly so many words.

One of those concepts of Heaven that makes Hell look good.

Like, everything will take away from the glory of God, so we must just stare at Him and contemplate Him 24/7.

“What do they expect? Me flat on my face in the Mosque every minute of every day crying ‘Al’lah’u Akbar!’?”
— Iraqi blogger circa 2005 or so, about the Real True Muslims he was encountering (and dodging)

John Piper can distract you from giving God glory.

@ Questioner:

“I wonder why our culture is OK with a picture of a rabbit grocery shopping – but not a woman in a Muslim headscarf? Why are hippos unwrapping birthday presents less offensive than a South Asian family celebrating a birthday?”
+++++++++++++++

characters as animals don’t have all the complex baggage that comes with people. easier to communicate the point of a story in a pure & simple way. also, it doesn’t alienate people. where people are placed in a picture or how they are depicted can communicate unintended things. (but then one wonders what values, assumptions prompted the illustrator / editor to make those choices)

re: people’s rejection or wariness of other people: sometimes a person’s attention is drawn to something or someone who looks out of the ordinary. it may be nothing more than a double-take. but i also think that people in general are naturally cautious of people who have an appearance or behavior that is out of the ordinary.

discrimination against and rejection of people is troubling and sad. but we do our best in our own communities.

Rick Gebauer wrote:

Calvinist legalism seems so exhausting.

Religion running amiss will put you in bondage … relationship with Christ will set you free.

Irish wrote:

John Piper needs a hobby.

John Piper needs to get a life.

“Dear Timmy,

“It always breaks my heart when I have to answer a question like this. I understand your concern, but I won’t lie to you. According to the Bible, there will be no animals in heaven except for horses.”

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0106/petsinheaven.html

Internet Monk touched on this subject in their latest Saturday Ramblings:
http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/72162

I give the glory to my dog.

“The first thing I would say is: Surely, yes, pets can take up too much of your time and too much of your money. (And also) food can and health can and family can and church can and work can and every hobby under the sun can and sports can and all manner of entertainment can and cars can and clothes can”

To be fair any hobbies and interests we have can become our idols. And when these things overshadows our love for God and our love for our neighbours, it can become a problem. So that part is true.

However once again we have to remember that here we have to consider this from a neo-Calvinist point of view. And this means that absolutely every single theology, even man-made ones, can be ENFORCED by the church. So if you do not do exactly what their theology says, you might be disciplined and excommunicated.

So neo-Calvinist might have some good and solid theologies. However all their theology opens up the door to abuse, because of how they view discipline. How members sign Church Covenants to agree to submit to elders under all circumstances. So when I read their theology even when I agree with them, I cannot help but consider how this theology will lead to abuse.

Take this for example. So you want to play soccer? Well that money could have went to the church. You want to go hiking? Well that time could have been used to serve and volunteer at the church. If anything you do is not for the church, you should be ashamed of yourself! How can you even call yourself a Christian when you waste money playing soccer and waste time going hiking, instead of helping the church? And you risk being disciplined and excommunicated, for playing soccer and going hiking.

Guilt! Guilt! Guilt! And if you don’t feel guilt you clearly doesn’t have the Holy Spirit inside.

As for no-any-fun-allowed-for-Christians:

“So, if your conscience is indicting you for the money you spend or the time you spend combing your dog’s fur or scratching her behind the ears, you should stop, stop. You should get rid of the dog. No pet is worth the damaging of your conscience. ”

“The question with regard to time and money is not only whether it is exorbitant — which it can be, but shouldn’t be. But even if it is modest, would that time, if you had no pet, be devoted to more refreshing, more encouraging, more edifying, more loving, more God-glorifying tasks?”

When Jesus went to that party and turned water into wine, he was wasting his time! He should have been serving and volunteering at the church. And he should have used his miracles to bring money into the church.

And why did Jesus wait till 30 to begin his ministry? He wasted 30 years of his life! [/sarcasm]

Wow. Piper is off the deep end so often, but this is like… I don’t even have words for it. He thinks himself so intelligently above and beyond the rest of us common folk. Anything can be a distraction if we put it before God! Why can’t he just say that?! Loon.