“Here's an easy way to figure out if you're in a cult: If you're wondering whether you're in a cult, the answer is yes.” ― Stephen Colbert link
Molly's family 9 months before they all joined Calvary Temple.
The picture above is one of the last pictures of this family smiling together. They are now estranged. Sadly this happened after they all joined Calvary Temple. This is a story of abuse, manipulation, control and submission. Caveat Emptor. If you have children and enjoy being a family, read what happened to this family. It is the hope of TWW that this church and its activities will become common knowledge. We thank Molly for her willingness to share this painful story of the breakup of their family.
Is Calvary Temple a cult? You decide.
Next week, we will be moving on to some other stories. However, if ex Calvary Temple folks wish to share their stories, we will be happy to post them on Tuesdays and Thursdays.
Molly's Story
As I write this, four of my five children, Jonathan, Sarah, Joshua and Christina, are in Calvary Temple in Sterling, VA. I have not seen them since the fall of 2012. I have not met three of my grandchildren.
The beginning of the ending of family togetherness.
We lived in rural New York, until the fall of 2008. Our story began when my daughter Gretel and her friends planned to run away from home. Two of my children were in Virginia for college and attending Calvary Temple church due to the excellent recommendation of New York pastors and elders we knew. Our oldest son Jonathan offered to bring Gretel to Virginia to complete her senior year at the school in Calvary Temple. My husband, our son Joshua, our daughter Christina and I headed to Virginia to have a meeting with the pastors. We agreed that Gretel would attend the school and that I would temporarily stay and take care of her. We purchased a run-down townhouse, remodeled it and moved in. My husband returned to NY, coming to visit us every other weekend. We continued this for some time until he decided to join us permanently.
We had no alarms about Calvary. Many young adults that my kids had befriended came up to NY often to stay and ski or hunt. Many in our circle of family and friends thought these kids were a joy and blessing, and they sure loved their church. We were all impressed. One person did say they had read on the Internet that the church was dividing families. I asked some families we had come to know if there was any truth to that. They said it was not true. That was just the excuse of some people who were just walking away from God.
I was planned to homeschool our younger two children while Gretel finished her senior year. However, the pastors offered to take in our kids so they could make some friends to ease the difficulty of our temporary move. Gretel loved school but the younger two did not. All the youth activities seemed to be just what she needed. However, later she admitted that she did see some things that were not kosher. The hypocrisy grated on her, but being our 'free spirit' she doubted we would believe her observations.
Gretel leaves home and become pregnant.
After graduating from Calvary, she left home twice. Much later, I learned that the pastors/deacon had told her that she was "using us". They made her feel like a burden to us. She did not want to leave our home but thought it was best for the family. This was an awful time for our family. At this juncture, I told our deacon Waleed Zarou, that I believed we were failing her. She was so sad but would not open up to us. Waleed and his wife spent a lot of time counseling Gretel. He advised us to let her go. We postponed our plans to return to NY. I began to feel that I had no energy. At the same time, my husband was spending a lot of time in one-on-one talks with our deacon and other men in the church. He rarely shared with me what those talks were about.
Molly is rebuked by the pastors for allowing Gretel to live with them.
Then we learned that Gretel was pregnant. I was in contact with her regularly, but our deacon requested me to have nothing to do with her. I thanked him for his concern, but reminded Waleed she was my responsibility before God, not his, and I would do as I saw fit. She asked to come home, and, of course, I said yes. The pastors rebuked me for not seeking their approval.
I believe that this incident marked the beginning of my fall from favor at Calvary. I observed that they were treating Gretel rudely and harshly. I began to asking other parents and our deacon why they condoned such behavior. They always seemed to agreed with me that such treatment was not right.
Calvary Temple endorses shunning.
However, in 2014, we heard from two people in her graduating class that the pastor instructed all of the young adults were instructed to shun Gretel. (After leaving Calvary themselves, they came to apologize to her for the cruel treatment. That was so brave of them.)
Noah, Gretel's son is welcomed by the family.
Following the birth of her beautiful son Noah, Gretel proved to be a wonderful mother. My husband and the pastors insisted she had to go to work when he was one month old. I objected, thinking she should continue college and work part time. She had a large enough inheritance with which she could manage on until the baby was school age, if she was frugal. And she could live with us. But the pastors/deacon rebuked me, saying that I should raise Noah while Gretel worked.
I had been offered a full time position with a neurologist in Reston, but my husband told me to turn down the job and raise Noah, according to the pastor's orders. I told them all that I disagreed strongly, but would submit. And I did. I was asked to work a couple days a week at the Calvary school, helping the teachers. I was allowed to take baby Noah along to classes.
During this time at the school, I never saw any spankings, nor was I asked to sign a paper permitting it. I was always very involved with my children's education, in and out of school. I got to know the teachers and their families well or so I thought. They seemed to be the best of people, of high integrity.
None of the young people ever shared with me any stories of abuse. Only one of the adults in those three years hinted at bad things in her marriage. The wife of our kids high school teacher, while on a family vacation with us, shared in vague terms she would leave her husband if she could. I was shocked, and encouraged her to talk to the pastors for help. She dismissed the idea, saying she had but they didn't believe her. I went to our deacon Waleed and said they were struggling. He told me that she was a complainer, and to not listen to her if she tried to talk to me again about it. I had only known this lady for about a year, and thought they knew more about people in their church than I.
Pastor Zarou flees Kenya, allegedly to avoid an arrest warrant and returns to Calvary Temple.
In January of 2011, Pastor Ron Zarou returned to Calvary Temple from the mission field in Kenya. At the time, I did not know he had actually fled Kenya because there was a warrant for his arrest. He was being accused of breaking up families and having underage girls marry members of the church. At Calvary, we were told his life was being threatened for the gospel's sake. We had not met him before this.
A husband is to be obeyed even when he is wrong.
Shortly after Pastor Ron Zarou's return, he informed my husband and me that we would be coming to him for counseling (although we had not sought counseling). They wanted to see how we were getting on with Gretel and the baby in our home The meetings were awful. Pastor Ron Zarou can be cruel with words and no matter the subject, he always took the man's side. It was in these meetings I first heard the concept, that even when a husband is wrong, he is right, and therefore to be obeyed. I told pastor Zarou that when someone's wrong they are wrong, and when they are right, they are right. They do not get a pass on sin because they are a man.
She is accused of being unstable.
This angered pastor Zarou. He said my knowledge of the Bible made me puffed up. Pastor Zarou inferred constantly that I was not a Christian, because I did so many good works. Therefore I must just be a Catholic, trying to earn my salvation. He accused me of trying to influence my husband and said that I was hindering the children's relationship with their Dad. He implied that I was unstable and manipulating because I often cried. He often asked me to start taking anti-depressants because he said my emotions were "over the top." Our New York doctor disagreed, saying my reactions to events were quite normal considering the stress I was under.
Marital stress begins to build.
The stress in my marriage built up. My husband made frequent trips to New York to run our business, but increasingly, on occasion, didn't even tell anyone he was leaving. He started not answering phone calls and I sometimes had to locate him through his mother. One day he announced to our deacon he was going to give away our business! I strongly objected, and was rebuked. He was increasingly irresponsible towards his family, and deferred to the pastors in making decisions.
Was Pastor Scott trying to divide Molly and her husband?
I became afraid. Never in my life had I been timid. I couldn't put my finger on what was wrong. Was it me, my husband, or pastor Ron, whom I disliked? Never did I think we were being systematically divided through subtle means by Pastor Scott. Although I know at every meeting, we were told that what was being shared was coming from Pastor Scott's heart. He was aware of our situation, cared, and was trying to help us. Only one time did I ask to meet with him personally, and he told our deacon "no." I still believed that we were loved and decided to trust God.
Molly is kicked out of the church and turned over to Satan. She was not allowed to be with her family.
In June of 2011, unable to reach my husband, I returned to New York for a visit, bringing our daughter Christina with me. We had a good week but when I wanted to extend the visit, my husband insisted that we return to Virginia. I didn't want to go back, but obeyed. When I arrived in Virginia I was immediately called into a meeting with all my children, two pastors and Pastor Scott's wife Greer. I was accused of being rebellious and told I was being "marked." This meant I was turned over to Satan for the destruction of my flesh so my soul would be saved. I was told I was leaven and could not be in church or with my family. There was no explanation. Sobbing, I asked why. I was told to submit to chastening and then I would be allowed back. I was told my husband approved of the discipline to "break" me.
She is rejected by her husband and oldest son and her daughter is taken from her.
When I returned to my home after the meeting, I was left with only my youngest daughter Christina. I begged my children to stop this, but my oldest son told me I was rebellious because I had gone to New York without asking Dad. By phone, my husband said that the pastors were going to take Christina from me due to my rebellion. He was yelling, I was sobbing and asked why. He said because I was in rebellion to the pastors authority. They took Christina away a day later, having her go live with her brother. They got her to say I was 'leaven to be purged.' My husband came to Virginia and informed me he was putting me away in a motel until I was broken. I protested saying it was wrong and that Pastor Scott would never agree to that. I said it was cultish. He said they had told him to put me out in the street. The motel was a kindness I didn't deserve. In front of me, he called the pastors and I heard them tell my husband that it was a great idea.
She is told to live out of motels and is not given enough food.
I lived in a series of motels for nearly 6 weeks. My husband took my wallet and car, bringing me food every other day or so. I lost 35 pounds during that time; so he accused me of manipulation by not eating. Pastor Zarou called about once a week to talk to me, warning me not to commit suicide even though I had not threatened to do so. I was crying and said he could do anything he wanted to me but begged him to let me go back to my children. I was warned me that I would not see the children again unless I submitted to the chastening. I was told to not contact any family or friends in New York. I later learned that my children had been told I had left home and abandoned the family.
At the end of six weeks, my husband was told to bring me my wallet, key and car. I was told to pick up some clothes at home while the kids were in school, and get a job to support myself until the pastors felt I was entirely broken. I was cautioned again to not contact anyone in New York or my kids. I was not supposed to call my husband. If he wanted to talk with me, he would initiate the call. I was told to wait for calls from Pastor Zarou and he would see if I was broken enough to come home. Pastor Zarou called me every ten days or so to question me to see if I was broken and repentant. I prayed constantly for God to show me how to answer him, because nothing I said made him happy.
I was rebuked for reading the Bible too much and told to read a Catholic mystic's writings.
Ron Zarou rebuked me for reading the Bible so much and encouraged me to read more of Fenelon, a Catholic mystic. I was rebuked for knowing so much of the Bible and for losing my phone twice, proving my instability. I was so frightened of Pastor Zarou's reaction that I lied about denting our car. I was afraid he would not allow me to see my children and come home. I ended up telling him the truth, to which he told me Pastor Scott had been considering letting me come home, but this proved I was not right with God. He said I should tell them everything even if it meant I could not see my family for two more months. And so it was two more months before I was allowed home.
Those days and weeks are a hellish memory. I was able to get a job as a greeter at Dicks in the mall. I had been offered a job at a doctors office near the church. But Ron Zarou told me to turn it down because other Calvary members worked there. He said it would be too conflicting for them because they could not talk to me, as I was marked. My husband paid a down payment for me to rent a room from an older Taiwanese woman who barely spoke English. Pastor Zarou's wife Tara brought me the cash, from my husband, to pay for it. My paycheck was deposited in our joint account.
Through all of this I somehow existed. Family and friends from New York tried to reach me, but I did not answer the calls. I was too afraid. When my two youngest children had their birthdays, I asked Pastor Ron if I could give them a gift. He said they would let me know, and when it was approved, his wife Tara picked up the gifts to give to them.I was not allowed to call them at all.
Finally. Molly is allowed to go home.
After ninety three days, my husband texted me. I was so scared I actually called Pastor Zarou to ask if it was ok to respond. He was pleased that I did this he said. He asked me then if I thought I was ready to come home. I responded "I don't know pastor Ron, what do you think?" He told me that was a very encouraging response. Please hear me clearly, I knew that this was wrong, what they were doing. But I also knew my kids needed me and were under their control. And I would do whatever it took to get back with my family.
That night my husband brought me home. My two youngest children asked their dad if the pastors knew that I had been brought home. They were actually afraid of me. Instructions from Pastor Zarou were that I was to let my husband make all decisions and not to tell the children anything about the past three months of chastening, as it might elicit sympathy for me.
Upon my return, I learned that Gretel and her son Noah had been kicked out of my daughter Sarah's house a month earlier. The reason? She had texted Noah's father in New York and agreed to meet him. At the direction of leadership, my husband took Noah from Gretel and kept them apart for a week. Noah cried so much that my husband finally gave him back to Gretel. She found a room in a basement. I don't know how she existed. but she was a wonderful mother. Upon my return, my husband would not let me see Noah or babysit him unless he was present. I was not allowed to talk to Gretel, and the other children avoided me.
Molly's life is rigidly controlled.
Life became a cycle of working, silence, and tears. I worked several jobs, was not allowed to make any decisions, and could not have any input into my children's lives.I was to be silent and work. I rarely was in church because I worked a lot of evenings and Sunday's. I did not need to work because we owned a profitable business. The pastors wanted me to work, so my influence would not be felt in the home. I cried when no one was looking. When I went to New York, everyone worried about me, saying I seemed like a robot. I could not tell them anything because I was afraid the pastors would find out.
Early December of 2011, my husband insisted I go with him to New York for 10 days. It meant leaving the younger (ages 18 and 15) children behind in the townhouse, but I was told to obey. When we returned, Gretel came to speak with my husband. When our eldest and his wife saw my husband and Gretel talking, they were extremely displeased. In church the next night, our two eldest children rebuked my husband, in front of several people, for talking to Gretel who was put away!
Kicked out of the church and her family because she was 10%in darkness.
Then my son Jon asked me if I had anything to say. This was the first time since I was brought home that I had been acknowledged as having any say in the family. Although I knew I he wanted me to agree, I was so ashamed of my son that I told him he had no right to humiliate his father like that publicly. That night I was kicked out of church a second time. I was given no reason why. My husband was a pawn in the pastor's hands; he did whatever they said.
For the next two weeks I was not allowed to talk to the family, go to school events or to church. On Christmas Day, 2011, my family told me I was still in darkness and needed to be broken further. I was to told to leave our home and find a way to support myself. They said that perhaps in 2 months, or perhaps 8 months, I would be allowed back if I submitted to the chastening of the Lord. My husband said that I was "a good wife" and my eldest son said that I was "a great mom", but I still had to be broken because I was "90% good, but 10% darkness"
What followed is crazy. My husband was told to file for custody of our youngest child. He cleared out our bank account, changed the locks on our home without telling me. He never answered any calls, neither did any of the children. My husband told the court I was rebellious, as did my older children. Ironically it was the court that showed I was probably too obedient, and that was how the church gained control of my family.
Finally I was offered custody, but was told that if she ran away from my home she would have to put into foster care. I finally gave up the battle, allowing her to live with one of my other children. I could not subject her to foster care; at least I knew she would be with her siblings. Through this whole mess, the pastors and their wives were behind the scenes, calling the shots to my children via cell phones. They listened in on our conversations without our knowledge. A policeman noticed it and let me know.
The pastors directed the children what to do and say along the way. But they were to own the decision as from themselves. During those days, I could not understand why the kids were behaving like this. It was like they had become mindless robots. It was only after people who had already left or been kicked out of the church, came to me and shared identical stories. They said that the children were being prepped by the church to eventually ditch their families when Pastor Scott said to do so.
This has been a nightmare but one that has been shared by other former members of Calvary Temple
It has been a nightmare and I held back from telling my story at first. It is longer and worse than space here permits. I now know that many families, like mine, have been destroyed by this church. People say little, because by and large, like me they are just plain, good folks and can hardly believe it is happening; let alone try to explain HOW it is happening.
Former pastors will not speak out.
I keep reaching out to my children, thinking that somehow they will listen and realize how evil it is to do this. I have reached out to Pastor Scott, but he does not respond. Every pastor or deacon that has left Calvary Temple is afraid of him and will not speak out. I have asked some of them for help.
- Pastor Richard Miller is a former CT pastor who now pastors his own church. He has a son who is a pastor in CT with Pastor Scott. He told me to just forget my children and move on until God opens their eyes.
- Pastor Wayne Hughes,a former Ct pastor in NY, said that he would not speak against his former pastor.
- Pastor Tony Wozniak, a former missionary for CT and now operating a church in New York, to trust God, and that writing about what happened with my children is not right.
She is reunited with her husband and her daughter, Gretel.
How does anyone explain this? How does a mother forget her children? So I stay hidden, cry privately, write my children (not knowing if they read my letters), and pray. I know God is going to bring justice one day, and that my children will be with me again. I am waiting for them. We are all waiting for them. My husband and I are together again. Our daughter Gretel has forgiven her dad for putting all of us away, and forgiven her mom for not seeing through the pastors sooner.
Many former Calvary Temple members are suffering.
I hope people will be kind to all who speak up. We are suffering. This could happen to any person who is not accustomed to devious men. When you speak to anyone in CT, by and large, you will be impressed with how well spoken, kind, thoughtful, gracious, ethical, hard working and Christlike they are.
Unfortunately, underneath and behind-the-scenes, wicked deeds are being done in Gods name and it is shipwrecking the faith of many. Calvary Temple is not what it purports to be. We arrived in the fall of 2008, welcomed with our wayward child, and the church slowly divided us from each other. They did this very quietly through the youth programs until they were able to get rid of me at the end of 2011, and my husband a few months later. What parents hear in church is not what they (pastors, teachers, coaches) are telling the children when they are alone with them.
I am grateful for Brandon's willingness to start his blog to warn people early in 2012. His courage gave me courage to start mine to my children. Brandon and his brother Josh were friends of our eldest son Jonathan. I did not know Brandon's story of abuse until after I was "put away."
Please join with TWW in praying for Molly's family as well as spreading the word about the allegations of abuse by the leaders at Calvary Temple.
First?
This is chilling. I am praying for the family. Thank you, Molly, for exposing this evil.
@ Marsha:
Faster than the Roadrunner!!
this is horrifying….how these leaders must’ve plotted and planned all of this behind the scenes……sickening ….Dear heart Molly, I don’t know you, but you have been through a horrendous ordeal in the name of God. This should not be. I am praying that your children extricate themselves from this venomous man and his cronies…..prayers your way….
How can this bullsh-, I mean nonsense, even be legal? Because it’s ‘religious’? Anybody, anywhere, can claim they are Christian and be a church and all. It’s total bullsh-, I mean nonsense. The whole evangelical non-denom thing seems to be fraught with evil. Yes, that’s what I said. Power-hungry ‘pastors’ (they are nothing like pastors – more like ravening wolves) are making a mockery of Christianity, and don’t think for one minute that the broader culture doesn’t see it and think that’s what Christianity IS. One more stumbling-block.
Evil cultish control freaks. Be careful people!
God bless you and give you back what you had before and more.
I have to take a break about midway through Molly’s story as I’m so upset at what I’ve read. How in the world these people dare to interfere with the lives of those who trusted them is unbelievable! 🙁
I believe Molly and her husband have reconciled and worked things out. There 4 children are stuck in there. Last Saturday when I attended the protest to meet and talk with these individuals. You see Molly became a grandmother again, and at Star Scott’s Car show her son John was working as staff guiding people. The CT protesters yelled that Jon’s nephew was born the previous night. And John ignored them.
I am amazed as to how intelligent, kind, and loving former CT members are. Like the people formerly involved in Sovereign Grace, ex CT members are beautiful. I was impressed by the faith, love and kindness of Michelle Freeman. Ellen who organizes the protest is gold. Such a kind heart. These people are in so much pain. I never thought I’d say this but SGM is healthy and robust compared to CT. Molly writes a blog called “Dear Calvary Temple”… its her effort to write letters to her children.
I grew up in an IFB/Gothard cultish environment, and have spent many years in reflection and therapy, so I have some insight into the cult-related psychology, processes, and structures that I experienced. But this is bewildering to me, in comparison with the Gothard obsession with forcing even adult children into submission to their parents. What is the end game here? What could possibly be the point of deliberately and maliciously dividing parents and children? Is it money? Control? The adrenaline rush of moving people around like pawns on a chess board?
On the other hand, maybe it’s not so different after all. Just another flavor of perversion 🙁
This sounds like something as bizarre as Margaret Atwood’s Handmaids Tale only it is for real. This is a totalitalarian organization with a warped newspeak of its own, This is so sad and so evil.
Here’s the latest article I wrote. Its an ongoing series of how to deal with someone in a faith crisis.
https://wonderingeagle.wordpress.com/2015/04/17/how-to-respond-to-a-faith-crisis-preparing-for-the-long-haul/
I just couldn’t finish this… will try tomorrow… and I almost never curse… but… who the bloody hell do these so-called pastors think they are?
And… where on earth do they find the time? “Pastor, my husband sent me a text– may I answer it pretty please, with sugar on top?”
“Well, you’ve been very very bad but it’s great you’re asking me. You see, you’re really a Catholic, you read your Bible way too much, and you do way too many good things. Read two books by Catholic mystics and call me in the morning”.
Don’t they have their own bloody lives to mess up?
There is an active go fund me being supported by former CT members. Money raised is going to people who are struggling with mental health issues, lawyers, and investigations.
Maybe Dee can post this link in the post. It would be awesome if this and other communities came together and supported Molly Fitch, Michelle Freeman and the others who have been hurt by this cult.
http://www.gofundme.com/novx70?hc_location=ufi
lemonaidfizz wrote:
One thing comes to mind: the short term canniness/long term foolishness often seen in conjunction with the sociopath or NPD personality disorders.
Since they’re always trying to “win” as they define it and put one over on you, the typical sufferer of NPD often is very clever in the short term. What better way to assume control and feed your narcissism than to divide and conquer? Strong families and interpersonal relationships are an existential threat to cults, so cult leaders do all they can to pit followers against one another and they interpret scripture in a manner that makes an expression of concern from one member to another (that might enable them to confirm each other’s worries and talk themselves out of tragic mistakes) into “sinful gossip”. So the cult leaders get the narcissistic supply they want in the short term.
But almost invariably, it collapses in the long term, because broken families stifle church growth, abuse eventually drives people away or drives them to stand up to the abusers. So the malignant narcissists and sociopaths almost always lose the things most important to them in the long run, because while very clever and ruthless, they are marked by a pathological inability to understand long term effects. Look at most every ruthless leader in world or church history, they have a knack for puffing themselves up really big relatively fast–then crashing and burning.
About a couple of weeks or so ago Dee posted about a new church blog with people protesting. I knew nothing about it but saw it was related to Calvary Temple and I Googled it. My jaw hit the ground during my lunch after seeing how many blogs were dedicated to this one church in Sterling, VA. SGM had about 3 or 4 max? Calvary Temple has at least 7 dedicated to one church.
I started to read Molly Fitch’s blog called “Dear Calvary Temple” and was stunned by what I read. It was outright horrific. I struggled with concentrating that day because of the nature of what I read. This is Molly’s blog. I’d give it a read. I was so livid and angry.
http://dearcalvarytemple.blogspot.com/
@ Molly
Yours is truly an horrific tale. I believe it was Providence that brought you out of that vale of tears, and it is my fervent prayer that she also free your family.
@ Law Prof:
Wow. Thank you for your response. I need to think about this for a bit, but I think you’re onto something here. I’m fairly sure my mother is an undiagnosed narcissist, and I know that she divided her children up in a manner very similar to what has happened within families at Calvary. If we think of the leadership there as operating within a narcissistic supply paradigm, then it makes perfect sense. Gothard, Scott, Phillips, Hyles…doesn’t matter, because it’s not about the theology, it’s about the pathology.
I had to stop when I came to part when Molly, a Christian woman, is criticized by pastors and deacons for “reading the Bible too much“.
It seems the men at Calvary Temple like their women ignorant and trampled down. Disgusting.
I am so, so sorry that all of this has happened to you and your family, Molly. May the light of truth keep shining on the CT madhouse, and may your whole family come to see it soon.
I’m so sorry Molly. How terribly wrong you and your family have been treated by these so called pastors. It makes me so angry that they manipulate and controlling folks claim to know Christ and do His will !!
Asking God to continue to restore your family !
– Ali
Molly, my heart breaks for what you went through. Thank you for your great courage to put this all in words and to publish them.
Thank you, TWW, for shining your light on this.
Investigative journalism, please get involved.
Starr Scott, Waleed Zarou, Ron Zarou: too bad your name isn’t Richard, because then I could call you D1ck.
Serving Kids In Japan wrote:
This was my first thought as well upon reading those words. To be fair, I think the pastors in that church want everyone in their congregation to be ignorant of what the Bible really says. The “you read the Bible too much” is a giant red flag of cult control.
To all who have left and survived Calvary Temple my thoughts and prayers are with you. Also praying for those left, How long oh Lord?
You know my parents were not perfect and both of them loathed and I do mean deeply loathed the evangelical religion as expressed in some churches in the US and other countries. No matter what I ever did, which was not to much because I was to busy taking care of my sisters child, my sick father, then my sick sister, and finally my mother for many years when she had cancer as did my sister. I will avoid all of the usual personal vilifications but they still play a part in my viewing of reality in an emotional sense. My mother instilled in me a very deep rooted cynicism, at times almost neurotic, even she said that. But it kept me, and others I helped out of cults and away from nuts for the most part.
I am truly grateful for the upbringing I had, I wished there was not so much violence and death in it. I am truly thankful that my parents always took me back, I mean I never really left being the “helper”. I can say this, I kept every single promise I made to my parents save one, I did not make enough money for my mother to die at home, I have somewhat forgiven myself for that which is farther along than it was when she first died. I was there for her as with all of my family, all the time, as I am for my students and the few friends I have. But in all that I wonder if I forgot myself?
But like I said, never would my parents sue me, abandon me, maybe cuss and swear and blame out of pain and anger and fear etc. But we all do that. God granted me the time to be with them until the end and to make peace with them, it cost me, it cost them as well. But it is what I chose to do and I look back on it and I was right to do it.
I am so sorry for all that has happened to these fine people who have been so betrayed by those that were their spiritual leaders. I really have no words, all I could do is just sit, listen, and even lately cry with you, those that know me know that is a big step. God be with you.
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I have known Molly for many years and know her story but reading it here brings the horror back anew. Molly, we will continue to stand against Calvary Temple until your family is restored. We love you.
Thank you Eagle for the mention of the protests. Though I have been part of them, the organizing efforts are lead by a wonderful, beautiful, member of our community in Sterling, VA. Though she never attended Calvary Temple, Samantha and others have come along aside of us and have put together an amazing grass roots group that is in it for the long haul. It has been unbelievable how many people have come from the community to expose Calvary Temple. ( http://exposecalvarytemple.com). Our small group of ex-CTers owe a debt of gratitude to these wonderful people. They have sacrificed days and nights, time and money, to help shine a light on Calvary Temple’s very dark deeds. We can never thank them enough.
Molly, this is beyond appalling. Who do these people think they are? I hope that things start to look more hopeful particularly when it comes to your estranged children.
Elizabeth says:
September 6, 2014 at 8:54 am
Dear Brandon,
Following your site off and on for the past two years, I am dismayed at the depths of evil found in the cisterns of Calvary Temple and it’s pastors. Recently while having dinner with friends, one of whom is a pastor, we discussed your blog. I asked the pastor why those pastors who have already left Calvary, have been silent regarding the wickedness they must be aware of. We are in New York you know, and everyone knows everyone up here. We know of three pastors in the Buffalo area who were previously associate pastors of Calvary Temple in Virginia. Obviously if they no longer are part of Calvary they must have discovered and walked away from it. But the silence seems puzzling to say the least.
However my pastor friend commented that in the ministry, if you are accredited with someone, you take on their reputation vicariously. So to blacken the ministry you came out of will hurt your own reputation. Possibly even nullifying your legitimacy as an ordained minister. Not to mention the possiblity you will be tarred with the same brush! In other words, guilty by association. Being silent, he said, is a way of protecting your current ministry endeavors. Hope people do not put two and two together.
When I asked him what the biblical method of handling their previous association would be, his answer was really well put. He said the only way to please God in this type of situation, would be to put their current ministries in the hands of a loving God, and ‘come out of the closet’ so to speak, admitting the evil, being honest and transparent with all, making efforts at righting all wrongs which they have knowledge of. Definitely not hiding out. He believes judgement is on the house of God, we are in the last days, and that is why so much is being exposed in ministries that have long been hidden. God is holy. If they stand behind Pastor Scott, say so–if not say so. Their deafening silence in the face of these facts points to compromised men in the pulpit who love the praises of men more than honesty with God.
God bless you, young man for your integrity and courage. We need more of that in these dark days. I long for the days of my youth, when men were men, and willing to take the bull by the horns. My father was one of those kind, and he had his share of battle scars. Once he caught a neighbor manhandling his wife, my father took him out behind the barn for a good thrashing. Told him he better never touch any of his womenfolk again, or he wouldn’t be milking cows for a long time. Nope, they don’t make men like that today. Nowadays it’s all talk, and outward appearance. No real strength of character, to oppose evil.
A sister in Christ,
Elizabeth
(I was sent your article, along with a request to republish my comment sent to the againstcalvarytemple blog from last year. People up here are most concerned that these abuses are not being openly condemned by pastors. No one should blame the victims, corrupt churches survive due to the silence of church leaders who have become ‘dumb dogs, unable to speak’ as the bible declares. Where have all the real pastors gone?-Elizabeth)
I am so sorry Molly to hear about this horrible story. I was excommunicated/shunned from my church of 8+ years for discovering while doing research for a prosecutor that a new church member was a Megan’s List sex offender, a friend of the pastors/elders, and they had promoted him to leadership positions without telling our congregation and parents. My former church isn’t even ten years old and I can see the pastors/elders destroying marriages and families in a few more years, just like your former church does.
I will post these (FREE) resources again:
1. Churches That Abuse by Dr. Ronald M. Enroth, here:
http://www.ccel.us/churches.toc.html and
2. Recovering From Churches That Abuse by Dr. Ronald M. Enroth, here:
http://www.ccel.us/churchesrec.toc.html
Thanks to Dr. Enroth for making his ground-breaking, well-known books about cultic churches available for free to hurting people, their families, and concerned friends.
Nightowl, I share your prayer. How long, oh Lord? Molly, I am so glad you shared your story and especially here. You are believed, understood and loved here.
On another note, it is anguishing to read account after account like Molly’s and to realize the bitter truth that there is no accountability, either within the church community at large, and especially LEGALLY. I can’t think of any other entity that can intentionally and maniacally inflict such horror on lives and reap no consequence than the “local church”. How long indeed, oh Lord? They steal, kill and utterly destroy in your holy name.
The Calvary Temple website makes this statement about Star Scott:
Pastor Scott functions in the five-fold offices of apostle and prophet. He has planted churches, and currently oversees the pastors and ministries of numerous satellite churches.
Questioning an “apostle and/or prophet” can be pretty intimidating I imagine. /sarcasm
I didn’t see a list of satellite churches anywhere and was wondering if anyone knows which churches they might be.
The way these pastors operate sounds like my (estranged) husband. It’s scary to think of his manipulative behavior translated to the level of a large church. It’s bad enough having to deal with him at the level of just our family.
Correction: Those satellite churches may refer to the ones in Africa.
The Lord began a work in East Africa over a decade ago. Calvary Temple now consists of 40 established churches throughout Kenya, Uganda, and Tanzania
http://www.calvarytempleva.org/Home/Africa
Molly, my heart breaks for you. I hope that your family will be restored soon.
I know families that are in situations similar to yours. We left our cult three years ago while our family was still young. That doesn’t mean we’re completely safe from the cult’s attempts to get at our kids. Our cult holds a big craft fair every year that draws thousands of people. Ex-members are not allowed unless expressly invited. The cult will have them escorted off by security (hired, off-duty law enforcement). This past year the cult invited my kids to the fair– not my husband and I. Fortunately, my kids weren’t interested. My older kids also see what’s going on without us having to say a word.
I stand with all the ex-CT members hoping for justice and a resolution to their pain.
This story is awful, but there are many more people that are so brutalized they will not breathe a word of it. Young adults and women 'dismembered' by their own families and left for dead, all on a pastors orders. And religious people walk by them and look away from the pitiful sight. The Samaritans show God's heart much better than the church world I am afraid. I cannot call this church a cult, it is a church teaching false doctrine, with predators in the pulpit, 'killing' people and thinking they do God service. They search to make one proselyte, and then make them two-fold a child of hell-like the Pharisees of old. Evil in all its beauty. Satan comes as an angel of Light to deceive.
The Nightowl wrote:
Good observation.
@ Elizabeth:
I am so thankful that you reposted this comment. I have been shocked and appalled by pastors who keep silent about other pastors. We saw this going on in Sovereign Grace Ministries mess. We see it in the Calvary Temple atrocities.
I put your comment into a draft post. I want to address this more specifically.
Elizabeth wrote:
In other words, CYA. What about “Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.”
These things are so distressing to read. What a sad and terrible situation.
After reading the part about the motel, I’m wondering if any of that is legally actionable. Directing her there and then taking away her wallet with her I.D. and access to money, bringing her an inadequate amount of food, etc. sounds like a form of false imprisonment to me.
@ NJ:
That’s what I wonder as well.
I wonder if Star Scott ever preaches this:
Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty with which Christ has made us free, and do not again be held with the yoke of bondage.
Elizabeth wrote:
We all love the movies where a group rises up in unison and repudiates wrongdoing in their midst, unfortunately that is usually fiction. All too often everyone has cut their own deal with the status quo. The final break typically comes, not when people individually decide something is wrong, but when a significant portion of people no longer have a choice but are forced by event or circumstance.
That said is a celebration when it finally happens.
What I’m wondering, and I think a few other people have kind of touched on this, about these churches in New York founded by the “former” CT pastors:
It sounds to me like there is some support for the idea that maybe the reason for the silence is that those guys could be really still working for Star Scott right now and the new churches being started in NY State are actually actively part of Calvary Chapel Virginia?
I’m suspicious that those “former” CT pastors that have gone to NY are still in CT and still working for Star Scott.
I’m wondering if any of the local news media in the area have done any exploration as to how “former” the relationship of these pastors is to CT Virginia and if anyone is warning all of the mailing addresses within a certain mile radius of the new church about where these guys are from and what CT Virginia got up to?
Victorious wrote:
I’m sure he’s read it, and would preach and interpretation of it that would turn it on its head and make the parishoners’ heads spin.
@ Victorious:
I had to take a break and ask myself, “Why would anyone in their right mind-and I am referring to Molly-submit to this kind of crap? (and that’s a mild word for what went on). I have been involved in good evangelical churches since the late 80s, and counseling has never happened in this way. Pastors usually take a limited counseling role, do not usually include their wives/other leadership, and hand off difficult cases to an outside, licensed counselor. My current church even has a fund to help members pay for counseling if limited pastoral counseling is not sufficient. My current church, as well as the last two, also immediately contact the authorities if they suspect any kind of abuse, domestic or child.
In short, I am trying to say that believers need to be really careful when pastors and/or church leadership try to get too involved with their family. If a proposed action sounds weird, it probably is. I will be the first to go on record to say that the church is the family of God, but God also established the nuclear family as a place where parents have the responsibility to “parent” their children (sometimes with help) and spouses need to work things out. If pastors try to control a family, as in the case of Calvary Temple, it’s important to flee as quickly as possible.
Molly: Thank you for sharing your story. This type of abuse needs to stop. Families torn apart by false doctrine, narcissistic leaders and lack of love. I pray that your children will see the light and come out of deception.
@ LInn:
Linn, All this happens very subtly and usually starts with love bombing. And as transient as our culture is there are few safety nets for people looking for a “church family”. And it all begins in this great love and concern they have for you.
One thing people can recognize off the bat is to be very careful in discussing any family problems/issues in prayer groups or small groups. It sounds counter intuitive to church, doesn’t it? But this is where is usually starts.
It is not like the pastor or one of his minions usually invites you to his office right off the bat and demands to know intimate details of your marriage or parenting skills. This sort of thing begins very subtly. They get people to feel safe and open up. Yes, it is insidious.
__
” Traction Or Distraction?”
hmmm…
R U ‘stuck’ in Star Scott’s proverbial 501(c)3 religious car circus? where the price of admission is apparently the wholesale destruction of your family?
(sadface)
Zzzzzzzzap!
could b.
fun huh?
Whoops!
Krunch !?!
Beware.
[Repeat after me…I am not a CT robot, I am not a CT robot, I am not a robot, I am not a …]
MAN UP!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZsef65omoY
Sopy
—
“Our story began when my daughter Gretel and her friends planned to run away from home. Two of my children were in Virginia for college and attending Calvary Temple church due to the excellent recommendation of New York pastors and elders we knew“.
I think others have addressed the silence of those who were former pastors at Calvary Temple church, but what about those who are still recommending it as a functional Christian church? I await the next pronouncement that they’re all moving to Guyana…
And what a name – Calvary Temple. Lots of crucifixations in this ‘church’. No resurrections to be found.
Is there any way of finding out the ‘throughput’ of this ‘church’? How many attendees/members are leaving, and how many new attendees are they garnering?
And what a name – Calvary Temple. Lots of crucifixations in this ‘church’. No resurrections to be found it would appear.
Is there any way of finding out the ‘throughput’ of this ‘church’? How many attendees/members are leaving, and how many new attendees are they garnering?
@Lydia, Linn, Victorious – good words.
Without victim blaming, I think it’s a good question – why do people stay? It’s a question you can apply to not only bad churches, but bad marriages, bad jobs, bad life situations.
Amongst many many other reasons, I wonder if we are so imbued with aiming for success, perfectionism, doing what we perceive is the right thing, and the ideal of attaining the right outcome that we don’t know when to quit and walk (or run) away. Quitting is not necessarily failure.
Molly’s whole story is a radar alert, but one antenna went up with me when Molly stated the extent of church activities and the level of participation required. Another when her husband was divulging information outside of her marriage and keeping it secret. There are so many more…
I call them for what they are – these powermongering guys at Calvary Temple are taking something sacred and treading on it with their muck-infested boots. They’re in the destruction business.
The Calvary Temple cult is playing games with people’s lives, and to what purpose?
Janet Varin wrote:
Well, there’s always Scientology… although if that’s the only thing worse than Calvary Temple, then CT has gotten very, very bad indeed.
Scott and his minions seem to have read from Hubbard’s playbook extensively.
Victorious wrote:
They’re exporting this madness to Africa!? Doesn’t Uganda have enough problems already?
@ Serving Kids In Japan:
I would think it would be great if Naomi/Brandon or Michelle Freeman could write a post about CT activities in Africa. That needs to be discussed to…
“Why would anyone in their right mind-and I am referring to Molly-submit to this kind of crap?”
It is very easy to be sucked into this kind of thing. Molly was doing the best she could to raise her children and got into this nightmare because of the counsel of pastors whom she trusted. How many of us have gotten involved with things because we innocently trusted others? Please be careful not to condemn people like her. Once you find out what it is like you will do almost anything to be allowed to see your children.
@ Haitch:
Much agreement here Haitch. One thing we can all agree upon is that the internet is going to make it harder and harder for these kinds of cultic regimes to proliferate.
Reading these stories, I am so grateful to be a part of my own church. The leadership there purposely steers away from trying to control people, or the environment. The senior pastor freely admits this is a calculated risk on his part, but the potential for God to work and move far outweighs any risk. A striking example:
There’s a certain famous retired athlete turned preacher who, when he is going to be out of town on a Sunday, will often do an internet search to find the church closest to the hotel where he and his family will be staying, and contact them and offer to minister in any way he can, if they would like. He usually gets back a detailed questionnaire; who are you, where are you from, where did you go to seminary, what’s your doctrinal stance on a, b, c, x, y and z, and what are you planning to talk about, because we need to know if it’s going to fit in with our program.
When he e-mailed my church, he got a two-word answer: Yes, please.
So he came and preached (about David and Goliath), and wove in a lot of sports stories to illustrate points. He was good, he was entertaining, he was a real blessing. At the end he asked for anyone who wanted prayer to come forward, and he prayed over the whole church.
I suspect one would never see this sort of thing in one of those over-controlling “churches” we hear so many disturbing stories about….
__
“Where Da Provebial ‘Religious’ Wackies Roam?”
huh?
Turn your brain off and follow this particular ‘religious’ crowd?
hmmm…
Sounds like fun, eh?
Call da Justice League?
ring…
ring…
ring…
ring…
ring…
ring…
ring…
(in a perfect world…)
sadface
Sopy
—
@ StillWiggling:
“The leadership there purposely steers away from trying to control people, or the environment. The senior pastor freely admits this is a calculated risk on his part, but the potential for God to work and move far outweighs any risk”
+++++++++++++++++++
how is it a risk, exactly? is it the risk of coming up short in money, or in people participating?
@ elastigirl: Because in the unregenerate part of his heart, he’s a bit of a control freak, and it’s a huge risk to that part of himself to let his congregation be led by the Holy Spirit instead of by him. 😀 Or something like that.
From a local Virginia news station:
http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/local/sterling/2015/03/29/protests-sexual-abuse-sterling-calvary-temple/70652798/
More on husbands losing their wives and children. One of the signs reads, “I miss my family.” This is heartbreaking. Church officials wouldn’t allow the news crew to interview them which even more so implies their guilt and complicity in this abuse. If they were innocent they would be talking for public relations reasons.
In other news (to borrow a phrase) here is something to make Dee laugh whilst she sorts through the raging crap of parts of the Christian world : http://www.pawbuzz.com/rescued-pugs-on-beach/2/
@ Mark:
I see Michelle Freeman in those pictures from the news story!! Good job Michelle! Proud of you!! 🙂
One thing I would like to say… I’m proud of Molly Fitch. It took a tremendous amount of courage to write this post. Its a major step forward for Molly. Its helpful to her and the community. Molly needs to know that she is not carrying her burden alone. We’ll help her carry it. But for writing this post she is very brave.
Thank you all. I am dying each time I read, post, answer questions. Hope no one thinks there is an easy answer. It’s as age old as Cain murdering his only brother Abel. Like the kids movie ‘Croods’, I would just pull the rock over my cave and hide away, BUT For My Children. I would. And for all the children of men and women who said they were my friends at CT. Children whose crime was questioning, saying no to manipulation, thinking. Precious, beautiful, valuable young people who have been cast away by their own families on the order of a pastor. Who have been told God does not want them Until….?
Why do this? Most pastors and religious people say ‘give it up Molly’. I suffer public ridicule and remember the ones whose voices have grown silent with loss and sorrow and confusion. For Gretel, Leah, Liz, Cathy, Anna, Erica, Monica, Morgan, Madison,Louis, Waleska, Michael, Renee, Andrew, Michael, Lyndsey, Kelsey, Joe, Noah, Josh, Nina, Cynthia, Jacquelyn, Brandon……and names I do not know, because they stopped crying so long ago. Before this, I was like any of you-reputable, full, busy, prosperous, savvy, wonderful family. I laughed.
From way inside my cave, I am calling out to these kids and my own “Fear nothing and trust God.”
Dear, dear Molly,
There are so many emotions that I am dealing with after reading your story…we met only once, but as an ex-CTer, I, of course know your story…yet, I am struck all over again at the harshness and disgusting, egregious, and in my mind…criminal behavior committed against you and your family by the “elite” of Calvary Temple…I have started and stopped my efforts to write this post to you over the past 24 hours…to be honest, I am not even sure how to begin…I only remember meeting and talking with you in person…once…I don’t know if you remember or not, but it was in 2007 in the gymnasium of Calvary Temple…you were only in Virginia visiting, but CT was having their annual Young Adult skit show, and you were sitting between me and Debbie Raggio…you don’t know this, but I wanted you between Debbie and me…I did not want to sit by Debbie, but she still expected me to…if you read my story in TWW, Debbie is the “best friend” who had spoken so harshly to me on my birthday in July, and while she wanted and expected me to be the same towards her, I wasn’t and I couldn’t…I knew that you were from New York, and we had a very nice talk that evening…I wish that I had said something to you that night about what I now knew about Calvary Temple…but I knew that I couldn’t…anyone who “sees” knows that if they speak up, they will be “reported” (remember, you are never wrong in reporting up)…and then the meetings and the “talks” and the “watching” begins…I didn’t know why you were at CT, but to me in meant as if you were there because you were a CTer from New York…I wonder if you remember any of the skits performed that night? I don’t remember the specifics, but as each team got up on the “stage” and acted out their skits, I couldn’t believe how “true to CT life” each one was…I remember thinking to myself…”this is a miracle!! Is Bob Scott paying any attention to these skits? Each one is portraying what things are really like here in CT!”…anyway…I guess that I may appear to be rambling to you…
What I really want to say is this…I am sitting at my kitchen table crying…I am crying for you and what happened to your family…I cry for everyone who has been harmed by Bob Scott and Calvary Temple for the past 40 years…I cry for those victims in California who will forever remain hurt and without civil justice for the crimes perpetrated against them…I cry for the children and the families torn apart and destroyed by Bob Scott and Calvary Temple…my heart hurts, dear Molly…it hurts for you and your husband and your children…it hurts for me and mine…my heart hurts…
I guess that I am out of words for this second…in all of the rambling words above, I pray that you can discern my love and affinity to you and your family’s destruction. It may be too late for the restoration of mine, but I will continue to believe for the restoration of yours.
And marks my words, my dear friend…we will continue to stand against Calvary Temple and the evil place that it is…
I send you love, hope, and hugs,
Michelle Freeman a.k.a. ex-CTer
Any type of question or hestation you feel about something when it comes to your own family is a red flag. That is your intuition telling you something is wrong, this is not right, I need to protect my family and get away from this situation as fast as possible for all of our well-being. Most peoples’ mothers have told them “trust your instincts”. I know mine did. Why then, did these people stay? Michelle Freeman, who saw sign after sign, chose to stay and keep her family at risk. She is responsible for her own actions- time after time, the signs were there and she chose not to leave. It was only a problem for her once she was marked and shunned by that church. Prior to that, she listened to no one and insisted there was nothing wrong with Calvary Temple, that everyone else had the problem. She was willing to let her children and husband go for this place. What kind of mother does this?!?! I do not feel sorry for her. She blames the church, but ultimately it was she herself who made the decision to stay, despite what her insticts were screaming at her. For Molly Fitch, she heard talk of Calvary Temple dividing families and still chose to go there. Any negative feedback regarding a church for which you are considering moving your family to a different state is a red flag and requires further investigation before you uproot your family. I’m not sure how, with the knowledge they already had about Calvary Temple, these women and others did not have the common sense to know enough to listen to their intuition and know that something was seriously wrong before they allowed their lives and families to be destroyed. I have heard talk about Calvary Temple for years and guess what? I don’t even drive anywhere near that area- that’s how far I want to stay from it. It seems pretty simple to me.
Here is an article from 2008 on Calvary Temple from a cult awareness group. Nothing much has changed, except people need to be warned, warned, and warned. Maybe if more people are warned good people won’t fall into its trap? This article does bring up the pastors love for expensive cars. News has been around for awhile, at least since 2008 or earlier.
http://culteducation.com/information/1289-general-information/7822-in-virginia-a-powerful-and-polarizing-pastor.html
Eagle wrote:
Amen, Eagle! We will help carry Molly’s burden and Michelle’s burden and they are NOT ALONE!
Blessings from California,
Michaela
Sydney wrote:
Nicely said, Sydney.
After reading this I had to speak up and say I remember when I first met Molly back in the 80’s. None of what was said about Molly by pastors of CT is correct, not even close. Molly worked for me and was one of the most gentle people I have ever met. She was a hard worker and was always willing to do what ever she could to help her co- workers in any way she could. I have my own story, but wanted to say that Molly is one of the most wonderful Christian women I have ever known. Over the years she worked for me, she was a true example of what we’re all supposed to act like as Christians. I will end by saying this, the Bible says the Judge of all the earth does right. The day will come when those who have done these wrongs to all of these families will stand before God and will have to give an answer (Paraphrased) The word of God says woe! woe! to those pastors that would hurt or mislead my flock. Molly, I will continue to pray for you and your family. Your friend in Christ.
Dear Molly; God bless you, Molly, for telling the truth. I wish they had mules, donkeys, called asses, today like they had in Bible days, so that R. Starr Scott could ride on one and get into a place where he had to listen. Maybe he would get a revelation then to preach the truth about who should read the Word of God. I don’t want to call him reverend, because there is nothing reverent about him; not any more. I hope that Bob Scott gets wind of this and has sense enough to read it and interpret it. The Bible says we are all priests unto the Lord. In Romans 8, it calls us heirs and joint heirs with Jesus Christ our Lord, whereby we call God, “Abba Father”. Bob Scott used to teach, and I’ve heard him; and if he called me today, I would open his eyes. He used to teach that everyone should read the Word of God. If he told me today that he did not teach that, I would call him a liar to his face. I hope he reads this. My name is Luther Foster. I am 87 years old, and age has not blinded my eyes to truth. My family, to my disagreement, has been in this church since its inception. God help you, Bob. I pray for you, Bob, because you have lost your way. You are as close to Jim Jones and his cult as life itself, and part of my family are still in that church. With tears in my eyes, and brokenhearted, I pray that my Grand-daughter and her family, Sarah and Michael Akel would get out of CT before it is too late and they are led over the cliff and to death by the stupidity of one man named R. Starr Scott. Thank you, and God bless every one of you.
@ Fred:
@ Fred
I believe that I completely owned up to my part in the destruction of my family. Thank you for your post. I did not ask for your sympathy, I was merely telling my story in hopes that many in my situation will be set free. I am happy that you believe that you are immune to any and every manipulation…many are not so privileged…I wish you all the best.
Michelle
@ Luther O. Foster, Jr.:
Mr and Mrs Foster, I think that you both are precious! I continue to stand with your son and daughter-in-law, and grandsons in this battle against Bob Scott and Calvary Temple…hundreds have been duped by this wolf, this con-man, this grifter…and today is the day of salvation! Give my love you your wonderful wife! For such a time as this!
Michelle Freeman a.k.a. ex-CTer
Luther O. Foster, Jr. wrote:
Dear Mr. Foster,
Thank you for your post about your family members who are in this spiritually abusive church. I am so very sorry. I will be praying for you, for your family, and for others (those who are still in and those who have gotten out).
In case you haven’t read them, here are Dr. Ronald Enroth’s books on churches that abuse. He has done decades of studies about abusive churches and made his published books available for free (bless him for doing that).
1. Churches That Abuse by Ronald M. Enroth, here: http://www.ccel.us/churches.toc.html
2. Recovering From Churches That Abuse by Ronald M. Enroth, here:
http://www.ccel.us/churchesrec.toc.html
There are other invaluable books too about spiritual abuse. But these are available for free and I wanted you to have them at your fingertips in case you would find them helpful.
@ Fred:
I said nothing about my being “marked” in my story…I said nothing about shunning…you Fred, if I may, are suspect…
Perhaps you already know that I was called a “Daughter of Satan” by Bob Scott publicly for his “pulpit” along with Marsha Foster…he lied about us from the pulpit based on gossip. You may also know that I was, again, from his pulpit, accused of “dumpster diving in the middle of the night” to obtain credit card statements to give to the Washington Post, when in fact it was already publicly posted in the November 16, 2008, Washington Post article by Michelle Boorstein that the credit card receipts were in fact given to her by Bob Scott’s son, Star Scott Jr.
Go back to Calvary Temple and be sure to tell Bob Scott all that I have spoken here…he is a wolf, and I will continue to speak out…
I will pray for you, “Fred”…you are not who you say you are…
@ Fred:
it is easy to make this kind of common sense judgement as a person outside a cult, but it is not so simple when you are inside a cult. Anyone can get involved in and trapped in a cult, and make decisions clouded by the teachings of a cult. I won’t demean what the victims of the Calvary Temple cult both in and outside cult are going through. As Americans we take our freedoms for granted, yet there are those within our borders, such as cult members, who don’t have the freedom to easily say no or leave an abusive and controlling religious environment. Keep picketing tge Calvary Temple. At least in our country, unlike the Christian picketers in India, we don’t need to get a license to picket.
Fred wrote:
@Fred,
While your post makes sense from the outside of a cult – ‘just say no’ – there are a variety of factors both internal in people that may make them susceptible to a cult as well as the manipulative, and deceptive, nature of cults that can get them caught in one.
While I wish that people don’t get caught up in cultic churches, they are going to need a ‘safe place to land’ once they get out. I want to be one of those safe people to help them on their journey to recovery. Name calling them, ridiculing them, blaming them doesn’t help them.
I think of the Rev. Billy Graham always making himself available for his children, even when they messed up (which is probably when they needed him the most). His daughter Anne Graham Lotz (author of many books included Wounded By God’s People) of when she was a teenager and she hit the neighbor’s car on the way to her graduation on their mountain road. She didn’t tell her parents right away; she later went and confessed to her father and he wrapped her in his arms and was tender and helpful to her. He’d known about it.
That’s what folks need. In other examples we see in life that the best person to help a recovering alcoholic is another recovering alcoholic.
I know that the Lord will use these former church members’ lives in an abusive church for good to be a blessing to others. I want to encourage them on the journey. All is not lost. Their mistakes and missteps can be used by God for good and can be a blessing to other folks.
Michaela wrote:
Amen!
Molly wrote:
Dearest Molly,
YES! for every name listed above, and for every name that we know but were not mentioned…and for every name that we do not know…
And for CHANNING, STUART, and DALE Freeman…yes, dear, Dear, DEAR Channing…I put YOU first…for my family…
I stand…
@ ex-CTer:
Proud of you Michelle!! I’ll see you in the near future…I need to get out there
soon. You know what we should do….see if we can get a big billboard and have it facing CT. The billboard can say, “Remember Molly Fitch” We really need to get CT shut down and families reunited. Its a cult and CT is evil.
I want all of you people who have been nearly destroyed to know that there are a lot of people in New York who are on your side. We have been fighting to free some of our friends who are still trapped in CT for four years. We will continue to fight.
For those who are in CT and desperately want out we are here for you and love you.
For those of you in CT who are delighting in hurting those who love you best…repent…we love you too.
For those of you who look at disdain at innocent people caught up in this cult beware. Remember the Pharisees.
All that you wonderful people are saying about Molly is true. She is my best friend and led me to the Lord in her bedroom 13 years ago on the night her son Jonathan was baptized by my husband. She has been a constant inspiration to me and a living testimony of Jesus Christ’s forgiveness of my sin and His love for me.
And by the way…all you who are speaking up are heroes…thank you for your godly examples.
Fred wrote:
Reminds me of a saying from an old pastor I knew, “what is clear to me is clear to me”.
Caution, none of us are totally rational creatures. Even with my german upbringing followed by training in engineering, I still find that I can be irrational and blind, thankfully less so as I get older, more skeptical, and less proud.
It would do well to dial back judgement of the victims and substitute compassion instead. Without compassion few will listen to anyone’s “wisdom”.
Bill M wrote:
The corollary works better here, “what is clear to you is clear to you”, but now I am talking to myself.
Fred wrote:
Fred, your unkind words are not helpful whatsoever. I think you need to watch this a few times:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oArDFU_IESQ
To the CT survivors: my heart goes out to you. I had a cult experience, too. We chose to go to a church, but we did not choose to go to a cult and get brainwashed. Thank you for sharing. I hope many will read your personal accounts, recognise the signs, and leave.
__
“Blame Yourself?”
hmmm…
Check out Calvery Temple’s parking lot this Sunday.
It will most likely be populated with enthustic worshipers.
Q: What does that tell you?
—
__
“Self-Inflicted-Wounds?”
hmmm…
Unfortunately, Michelle Freeman, who saw sign after sign, (for what ever reason) she chose to stay at Calvery Temple ‘church’ and keep her family at risk.
“She is responsible for her own actions- time after time, the signs were there and she chose not to leave…” ~Fred
Yep. (tears)
Correct me if I am incorrect kind folks, but Wartburg is NOT here to protect the ‘foolish’, but to warn the unsuspecting of abusive 501(c)3 religious organizations and their damaging tactics.
(and they have their job cut out for them…)
(sadface)
Wise-up folks, or this MAY happen to you.
SKreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetch !
Krash !
Sopy
—
__
“Calvary Temple On Your Side?”
HEADLINE: “Calvary Temple in Sterling investigated for decades of alleged sexual abuse
By Diane Cho, ABC 7 News March 29, 2015 – 08:04 pm”
“…I’d like to see everything exposed. The more we can get this nationally the better,” he said. “At the end of the day, that’s what we want, I think, is for justice to come out.” ~ Andrew Lawrence *
(* Lawrence was among the protestors across from the church when the ABC TV news team visited.)
Funny, No one at the Calvary Temple ‘church’ would speak with the ABC7 News team at the time of filming?
Bump.
Detectives are curently asking anyone who has any information that might help the investigation to call the Loudoun County, Virginia, Sheriff’s Office.
What?!?
This is bad stuff folks,
“Beware”
—
@ Fred:
A couple of comments on this post.
It’s true we have not heard the CT version of events – although a courtroom investigation of what went on is not the point of the post.
As far as the failure to comprehend what was actually going on behind the scenes:
Wolves in sheep’s clothing do not look like wolves. They look like sheep. They act to create the best possible impression. Such superlative apostles are angels of light. It takes discernment, both knowledge of the bible and the gift of the Spirit to see through the facade, and this can often take time. They seemed to be the best of people, of high integrity.
It is possible simply to be deceived; and the person so deceived by definition doesn’t know it. It is pointless blaming them for it. The implications once the light starts to dawn can be quite daunting, especially if the group you are committed to absorbs most of your free time. It’s also not always easy to admit you have been had.
You have failed to address the husband’s responsibility in this. If you are egalitarian then 50% of the responsibility lies with him, and if you are complementarian then an even greater element of responsibility is on him (no side-tracking please). Either way not just one person was involved in this. The husband has a heavy responsibility for what happened to his wife and children. Her welfare overrides church loyalty and he knows more about her than any pastor ever could.
The mention of the pastor’s wife Greer being present at a disciplinary meeting made me wonder if she is really the power behind the throne. It doesn’t gell if this “church” is heavily into submission (actually obedience, not the same thing), both to pastors and to husbands. Would I be right to surmise that under a facade of super-submission there lurks a viper? This ‘spirit of witchcraft’ (manipulation) is more often encountered amongst psychic charismatics and Pentecostals, but feels at home in any authoritarian structure I would imagine. The outfit seems to have room for Catholic mystics like Fénelon. Could be an open door to unsavoury spiritual things.
Are there any studies or research showing that certain kinds of churches are more apt to do this than others? I have not seen much about victims of the moravians or the methodists for example. Is it mostly just about authoritarianism or are there other aspects about this related to type of church?
@ Nancy:
Good questions. I wonder if some of the folks who have done research projects on this topic have input into these questions. I cannot think of her name off the top of my head but the women who has the site: Church exiters.
Ken wrote:
“For Satan himself can transform himself to appear as an Angel of Light.”
Ken wrote:
She Who Must Be Obeyed (in secret)…
Sopwith wrote:
1) “See His face! Hear His voice! Fuehrer! Fuehrer! Fuehrer!”
2) “White Night! White Night! Drink the potion! I led you here to Jonestown, I am your God!”
@ Fred:
We have a Prime Directive at this blog. You are to express empathy for the victims. In fact, you continue the abuse with your comment. You are the reason that this blog exists. People do get trapped in churches. They believe that they are doing what God wants them to do.
Many people do this sort of thing. They believe whatever doctrine is flung at them because pastors have set themselves up as authoritative and *men of god.*
Let’s get closer to home. Look at 9 Marks and their declaration that they hold the keys of authority to the kingdom. Lots of people buy that nonsense including the major seminaries that invite them to speak.
We have some NeoCalvinists who believe that women shouldn’t open their mouths when they get near the pulpit. John Piper doesn’t believe that anyone can remarry after a divorce, even if the former spouse abused them or committed adultery.
I sued to believe that women couldn’t teach until a dear pastor challenged me on that subject and I went on to teach.
Many of us *believe* without questioning. This goes on in our daily lives as well.
I find your comment insensitive and demeaning. But I want people to read it because I want our readers to see what people are up against. Molly makes a stand and she gets slapped by you for telling us her story. Her story will help far more people than your blame game. I only wish that more people were like Molly, willing to discuss their life in a transparent fashion. She is a hero.
@ Bill M:
I really liked your comment. I always get a chuckle when people come to this blog and espouse their favorite secondary doctrine du jour. They always say “The Bible is clear on…whatever.” No it is not. If it was, denominations would not exist.
ex-CTer wrote:
Thank you! It brings me great joy to read of all the people who are supporting these dear people. I am coming to your area in June and hope to meet with some (or all!) of you. You are people worth getting to know!
Luther O. Foster, Jr. wrote:
Luther! 87 years old and commenting on a blog! That is wonderful. My mom will not touch a computer.
Thank you for being such a support to Molly. Your comment brought tears to my eyes and I prayed for you this morning. If you would ever like to write a post with Molly and others, let me know. We could all benefit from your wisdom!
Your comment made my day!!!!
Larry wrote:
Larry,
I think you are all conspiring to get me to cry this Monday morning!! Thank you for testifying to Molly’s character. Unlike Fred, you show love and are a support to her as she transparently shares her life. Molly ‘s story impressed me and I could see her sweet spirit throughout her narrative.
The Bible warms teachers that they will be judged extra harshly. As a contrast, folks like you who support the saints will be honored for doing so.
Now, you said you had a story. Might you tell it to us?
@ Fred:
PS- You had your say. No further derogatory comments will be allowed.
@ dee:
Guys like Fred are the reason so many people will not go public with their stories.
Beakerj wrote:
Beaker!!!!!
Thank you. This is turning out to be a wonderful Monday morning. I just sent that video to all of my family! I love the man who was dancing with the pugs. true confession: I do the same thing around the house. I even saw a black pug in the mix. I have two fawn colored pugs and Petunia, who is black.
I am smiling to start the day.Thank you. I have been preparing from this big story in a couple of weeks and was forced to read some material on an issue that makes me sick to my stomach. I needed some laughs today.
Lydia wrote:
Victim blaming is a game that abusive churches and individuals play. Anyone with half a brain who reads this post would realize that Molly is a brave, thoughtful, and loving individual. I feel sorry for Fred. He offers nothing to hurting people except for blame. How would you like to grow up in his house?
People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
Here is my latest post. Its about “How to choose a church”
https://wonderingeagle.wordpress.com/2015/04/20/how-to-choose-a-church/
It helps you realize that the internet is your friend. How to use blogs, websites and sex offender registries to check out a church. Looking at affiliations such as The Gospel Coalition, 9 Marks, etc… Do they have membership covenants? How do they practice discipline? How you need to protect yourself because no one else will.
Ken wrote:
Correct. I agree that it’s pointless to blame one who was deceived.
I don’t consider this a “sidetrack” since it’s in keeping with the topic, deception, and your response to Fred.
It’s equally unfair to blame her husband for being unable to be a helper to her since he, too, was deceived by the teachings at CT.
I think Fred is associated with Calvary Temple and has come here to try to hurt Molly. There are many people who don’t understand cults and how they recruit members, it is a specialized area of study after all (collective behavior), but they would have no interest in this blog unless they came to ask questions and understand. Give it up, Fred, Molly’s eyes are open now.
@ Beakerj:
That is delightful!
dee wrote:
Ever notice that The Bible always agrees 1000% with them?
@ Victorious:
Just as a point of info, the ‘sidetrack’ would have been egalitarian or complementarian, which was not the point. Incidentally, for a church to be party to any attempt to break a marriage apart is very serious sin – what God has joined together, let not man put asunder, and whilst this asunder primarily means divorce, a pastor should be the last person on earth to do anything to bring this about.
You early post about the apostolic and prophetic at CT was like an air raid siren in my ear. Some limited aspects of these ministries may continue today, but the foundation of the church was laid 2000 years ago,and doesn’t need to be repeated – unless of course you want to start your own, new improved version …
In my day amongst charismatics, you were said to ‘wear a prophetic mantle’. Strange eccentric kind of speech, who on earth actually talks like that? Pseudo-spiritual clap-trap. Mind you, I wear an apostolically anointed rain coat to cope with the 5-fold weather you get over here. 🙂
Molly Fitch is brave. She is courageous and strong. Star Scott is the coward. He is the one choosing to hide. His day is coming…his empire will fall. It always will. We have to work to bring it down. You know what we should do….next time there is a CT protest go there and re-read Ronald Reagan’s speech at the base of the Berlin Wall in 1987 where he said, “Mr. Gorbachev….tear down this wall!” We should change it to say, “Mr. Scott tear down these man made walls of division”
Why do I have the vibe that Fred is a tool of Star Scott or a CT “pastor”? That means where getting to them! 🙂
@ Julie Anne:
Thanks Julie Anne! Imagine all the meanness and cruelty we could stop dead in its tracks if we’d only take Thumper’s teaching to heart.
Eagle wrote:
Thanks, for the post. Do you have any advice specifically for brand new Christians because it seems, at least to me, they don’t have the background to evaluate the significance of Evangelical Free, Assembly of God, SBC Greg Boyd or John Piper, as you mentioned?
There is no place for criticizing abused individuals for being abused. Period. I guess it’s our nature, though we do well to remember Gods warning to us, that if we bite and devour one another, take heed lest we be consumed one of another……….
I have extended family in Calvay T. and I will say this, they have no idea what is going on. They refuse to entertain ‘gossip’. They are being lied to, flat lies, that they believe— because the liars appear to be good people. These women were lied to. Until Brandon and Naomi spoke out in 2012, was there any single Christian testifying to the destructiveness of this church? And aside from the Washington Post article in 2008, which I know it’s hard to believe we are not the center of the universe here in the metro DC area, but very few out of staters probably read DC newspapers! Or do an Internet search on churches when you have pastors highly recommending a ministry. Pastor Scott was on TV and radio, all over the country. My relatives have shared how this guy has used some pretty big names to give credibility to his church. Please give it up, push comes to shove EVERYONE who tells what is going on inside that church is a HERO. Plain and simple. Hats off to them all for braving the onslaught of public scrutiny in order to warn others from a slow demise of faith and hope at the hands of Pharisees in the Church of our Lord Jesus. Kudos.
Eagle wrote:
I wondered the same thing. When ex-members from my former cult have spoken out the cult always responds with character assassination of the ex-member. You can plan on it.
Molly wrote:
Stay strong, Molly. We stand with you. This part of your comment struck me because, after several attempts to tell their stories via the media and other forums, many abused by my former cult have given up. Too many well-heeled members in the community support the cult. I am just in awe of your bravery.
@ Joe2:
Joe, what do you want to know? I plan on writing about some of this in time. The Deebs have a full time staff! I just have me, myself and I! 😉
Marsha wrote:
Maybe he’s looking for a dog biscuit and a pat-pat-pat on the head from Star Scott Himself? (And a ride in one of his expensive cars…)
Serving Kids In Japan wrote:
I agree.
It may be worth noting that Fenelon (the “mystic” the preacher recommended to Molly) was in repeated trouble with his fellow Catholics, when the church found out that he was teaching heresy…..At least one of his “students” ended up in an asylum. Just saying…….Some “teacher” he was!
dee wrote:
May I point out that you are full of a foul-smelling substance that you tend to step in if you follow too close to the South end of a North-bound horse??
Just saying…..
Lydia wrote:
I wonder what he gets paid for this? (Seriously. Is this his job? Defending the indefensible??).
@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
Or “Most Favored Deacon” status 😉
Julie Anne wrote:
Oh Dear, Bambi teaching bad grammar! :o)
zooey111 wrote:
Usually, It is simply satisfaction from an emotional beating well done.
@ zooey111:
Oh yeah, back in my training days we had a saying for guys like Fred in management positions:
Beatings will continue until morale improves
__
“Pretty Simple?”
hmmm…
When a ‘church’ will not let your child attend the main service with their parents, and insists that a parent sign a document authorizing the church’s ‘staff’ to spank your child (if necessary) has a screw loose…
—
Lydia wrote:
To which the Freds’ response would be “I’M AN M.B.A. AND…”
Bridget wrote:
“I’M PASTOR’S COURT FAVORITE FOR THIS WEEK!
HOW DO I KNOW?
I GET TO BRING THE BOWSTRING FOR LAST WEEK’S COURT FAVORITE!”
Bridget wrote:
With Pastors(TM) like this, is there any difference?
@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
A yes man?
zooey111 wrote:
Laughing in Raleigh!
Eagle wrote:
Yeah right! Looking for my staff as i write this comment.
Stonemason wrote:
Wow! Great comment. The people who are transparently sharing their stories are my heroes!
Eagle wrote:
Yeah- you are to blame. You came to our church and let us abuse you. Now that would be an interesting argument in court.
Let’s see “Well you were walking on the sidewalk when I decided to shoot my gun. It’s your fault.”
dee wrote:
Hey, you know when you can mobilize more ships to your sector, amirite? 😀
XianJaneway wrote:
As long as you’re not depending on a single Wesley Crusher to always be saving them.
dee wrote:
Lets see if that defense would fly:
Judge Tim?
LawProf?
@ Ken:
Word Ken.
Ken wrote:
You evidently didn’t “get” my little detour into egalitarianism by calling the husband a “helper.” 🙂 I was just being snarky and testy and having a little fun with you.
@ Nancy:
There are so few Moravians today that i doubt you’ll see much of anything about them at all.
That said, there are, i think, toxic people/churches in every group, and some things are hidden until they come tothe attention of law enforcement and child welfare, as with pedophilia and other kinds of sexual and physical abuse in more than a few Amish communities. This is especially relevant re. groups like the Amish and the more conservative Mennonites, because they do not believe the secular state should be involved in these matters. Which, unfortunately, pretty much gives abusers a free pass, so long as the are willing to undergo somesort of church “discipline,” which hasn’t amounted to much of anything in the cases that have been reported on in my state.
numo wrote:
My husband and I serve on a board with a Moravian. He is absolutely hysterical and he is a well known pathologist. He tells great pathology jokes! Yes, there are such things.
We were all at an event in which a lady passed out. My husband and another doctor ran to help. She was fine-just a little overheated. During the minor uproar, our Moravian friend walked over to me and said “Do you think she’ll need my services?” We all had a good laugh.
I feel so sad reading your story. I am happy that you are out of that environment and moving forward. I pray that one day you will be reunited with all of your children. I left CT in 1991 with my husband and children. The same thing could have happened to me because our deacon approached my husband inquiring if I was pressuring him to leave. I am so glad that my husband and I made the decision together.
@ dee:
OK – medical humor. 😉
@ numo:
Re. Amish and child sexual abuse, see
http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/January-February-2005/feature_labi_janfeb05.msp
** TRIGGER WARNING FOR MATERIAL AT LINK **
Calvary Temple Ron Zarou in Kenya. He is mentioned in Molly’s article. Breakup of families was occurring in the Kenya missions.
http://unsettledchristianity.com/star-r-scott-troubles-and-cults-from-sterling-virginia-to-kenya/
Calvary Temple was devisive in this Kenyan community, and the Kenyan lady in the video told Mr. Zarou to “go back to America.” She also termed Calvary Temple a cult.
Julie Anne wrote:
If we want to really beat up on a guy, this one is tops:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0
I’ve not posted a link before so hopefully the above will work.
@ dee:
@ numo:
I see four black pugs being walked sometimes, on a big field where I walk my dogs… next time I see them I may break into a dance of joy at their ridiculous puggishness.
numo wrote:
Actually where I live there are right many moravians Multiple mid-size churches. A moravian college. An elite girl’s boarding high school which attracts girls from across the state. Two restorations of a couple of their early settlements. Quite enough to have problems if they were going to have problems. But they are one on the most admirable protestant groups I have ever run into.
Star Scott and the IRS in Washington Post article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/30/AR2009073003799.html
Wonder what ever came of this IRS investigation? As article states the IRS doesn’t discuss cases. 20 percent tithes are mandatory for people who send their children to the Calvary Temple k thru 12 school or the children are suspended from this non accredited school if parents don’t subscribe to the tithe, according to church leadership. And attending this religious school is mandatory for church members. This is pretty much a catch 22. A school being non accredited is for me also a red flag for me because it reminds me of the IFB, because the school in this case doesn’t have to be accountable to anyone. All the nasty stories from the IFB are mirrored in this group.
@ Nancy:
They settled in PA, but few remain. I am surprised – but pleasantly so – to hear of them being in yourneck of the woods.
Though there are enough of them left to kerp the Bach Festival (a major international music festival hrld in Bethlehem, PA) going.
@ numo:
Isn’t Moravian College in Bethlehem, PA? These people were pioneers in the concept of universal education and also in education for females.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
I don’t think that one would go over well with the average jury or judge at a bench trial, but the Judge knows more about that stuff than me.
@ Nancy:
Yes, it is. PA and NC are where the original Moravian immigrants settled, back in colonial times.
@ Mark:
We were told that the IRS investigation almost landed Bob Scott in jail, instead he was merely fined. Evidently, this wolf who is worth millions, has very powerful lawyers which he also paid to represent other men in the CT organization…they all walked. Prior to the IRS investigation, this “community” church NEVER did one thing for the community except monthly when a selected Home Fellowship Group would go to a specific neighborhood, knock on doors, hand out literature, and try to get people into the church. The way Bob Scott tells it, all the years of going door-to-door only yielded one family…yes, you guessed it right…Greer Parker Scott and her father…POST IRS investigation, CT hosts many “free” events for the community: car shows, Easter events, Vacation Bible School, Friday night movies during the summer, and summer camps (basketball, cheer leading, soccer) for kids…it is all for show, nothing more. AND, the CT membership numbers keep getting smaller…now THAT makes me happy.
Molly, I am so glad you found this blog
ex-CTer wrote:
JUST LIKE SCIENTOLOGY!
numo wrote:
I remember visiting one of my writing partners in Allentown/Bethlehem; the library and comics shop he showed me were close to the Moravian college in town.
Victorious wrote:
Trouble is, I don’t have a problem with hubby being a ‘helper’. If it’s good enough for the Holy Spirit, it’s good enough for me … besides which ‘the one being the helper of the other’ iirc can be heard in some (Anglican?) wedding services.
Don’t believe you were being snarky anyway! 🙂
Now if you want do a wind-up, you need to say ‘Ken, you won’t ever find a perfect church, and if you do and join it, it won’t be perfect any more’. I don’t know how many times I’ve heard this as an excuse to ignore things that needed dealing with or be content with spiritual gruel. AAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGHH!!!!!
@ Sopwith:
I remember back in the 80’s we came down to visit family who were part of this church. We were considering a move but wouldn’t decide until we had attended a Sunday service, and had traveled back home to Ct. While we were in the Sanctuary after worship had ended we were instructed to remove our less than 2 year old son out due to the televised service and them not wanting it to be interrupted by the crying or noise of children. I could hardly believe that we would be told we could not stay together as a family during service. And especially since we were visiting from out of town . I did not know the people who would be taking care of my child, and opted to sit out in the front of the church with my son in a stroller while I waited for the sermon to finish. The scripture that went through my mind as I sat was when the disciples tried to keep the children from Jesus, and his response was to let them come to Him. I told my husband I would never move to a place that would not allow children to stay with their parents because televising was more important than a family worshipping together.Thank God we saw this early problem and did not move here and join this so called church.Unfortunatley for many of our family who were and are still a part of this our hearts break when we hear the horrible things that have gone on . We pray for the day when eyes are open and the scales fall from the eyes of those who are still deceived by this antichrist who operates in this church. May this day come swiftly.
yamamma wrote:
I join you in that prayer, and I am thankful that you saw the reality right off the bat and recognized what was “off” with that church. You are so right about Jesus and the little children and the little ones who are weak, and that is a tell-tale sign for sure. On the flip side, we were fooled by a church that actually does have a very welcoming attitude toward children, so we kind of ignored other warning signs. I wish I could say that was the only time we ignored warning signs. You were very wise. Thank you for sharing your story.
Ken wrote:
Ken, I’m sorry I missed this gem of a comment, and I could not agree more. Here’s something else we can agree on. Wives should submit to (have an attitude of submission toward) their husbands, and they should also be willing to lay their lives down for their husbands!
P.S. When you find that perfect church, let me know. I’m guessing it will be when we finally meet in glorified real life.
Victorious wrote:
Besides the nearly eighty chuches that Calvary Temple has established in East Africa, the only other church in the states other than the Sterling church is a small church in Gambrils Maryland. The pastors are Jim LaRock and his son Jim Jr.