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Posted on by February 14, 2015avatar

Due to posting yesterday, along with some details in that situation, we will not post today. Tomorrow, Lord willing, I am planning to talk about one of the more startling examples of sexual abuse cover up that allegedly (These incidents were documented 2/14) took place in the Mennonite community. It involved John Howard Yoder, considered one of the great theologians of his time. His influence extended far beyond the Mennonites.

Please pray for a miracle for Julie McMahon.

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No Post Today — 49 Comments

  1. Interested to hear more – we have a rather large (my perception) of Mennonites in the area, including a Yoder’s country store (does have a great bulk bins!).

    Also, first?

  3. Problems like this crop up in the even more closed Amish community, but rarely see the light of day.

  5. Mary DeMuth (@MaryDeMuth) wrote:

    I was so surprised when I uncovered the “secret” that current closed communities are rampant grounds for sexual abuse.

    John Yoder attracted the attention of many well known theologians. It has been a shock to find out that, for all of his knowledge, he was a failure when it came to his treatment of women. It is the same old story of respected celebrity and cover up by those around him. I think it is vital that we point out that abuse happens within any religious permutation. As my pastors says:

    “We are positionally holy but functionally sinners.”

  6. pk47tech wrote:

    Problems like this crop up in the even more closed Amish community

    If you ever see any stories, please point us to them. I did follow the Amish case of the Amish father and two sons who were running around and chopping off the beards of other Amish men. I have to admit, I got a case of the giggles when I read about their trial.

  9. Sometimes when I’m taking Metrolink into work in the morning, I notice what looks like several Amish-like men and women waiting for Amtrak at Fullerton station. I think they are either Amish or Old Order Mennonite, but I know of no Amish or Mennonite enclaves in my part of SoCal. One of my writing partners (an Anabaptist minister in PA Dutch country) did some checking but could find no definite info on Amish/Mennonite enclaves in my area. I still see them, all in black (including black bonnets on the women), waiting on the platforms maybe once every two weeks on the average. It’s still a mystery.

  10. My writing partner describes the relationship between the various groups this way:
    * You have Anabaptists.
    * Mennonites are one step beyond Anabaptist.
    * Old Order Mennonites are one step beyond Mennonite.
    * Amish are one step beyond Old Order Mennonite.
    * (And Old Order Amish are (presumably) one step beyond Amish.)

  12. @ Lola:
    Yoder is a common surname among Amish and Mennonites. There are a tonmof Yoders in my neck of the wods.

    But John Howard Yoder is removed from this kind of life. He is (was) a univerdity professor and influential theologian.

  13. @ Headless Unicorn Guy:
    There are lots of breakaway churches in PA, Ohio and IN, and there are groups of Amish and Old Order Mennonites in places you’d never expect. It sounds like there are indeed some in your area.

  16. Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

    My writing partner describes the relationship between the various groups this way:
    * You have Anabaptists.
    * Mennonites are one step beyond Anabaptist.
    * Old Order Mennonites are one step beyond Mennonite.
    * Amish are one step beyond Old Order Mennonite.
    * (And Old Order Amish are (presumably) one step beyond Amish.)

    Aside from trivial doctrinal matters, the really important thing that they have in common is an affinity for pie. All kinds of pies, though there may be scattered sects of fruit-pie only or cream-pie only fundamentalists. They may have further fractured into lattice-top pastry tops vs. full-crust pastry tops vs. streusel tops for the fruit pie purists and meringue vs. whipped cream for the cream pie purists.

    I suppose it is analogous to southern (small s) Baptists and our doctrines of Potato Salad. There are the mustard vs. no mustard sects, and the boiled egg vs. no boiled egg sects. Sweet relish vs. dill. Bacon vs. no bacon. That is what you get when there is no central authority or creedal statement. Chaos. Pure, delicious, Spanx-exploding chaos.

  19. Gram3 wrote:

    That is what you get when there is no central authority or creedal statement. Chaos. Pure, delicious, Spanx-exploding chaos.

    Love it!

  22. jonathan wrote:

    Where does the bean casserole fit into their soteriology then?

    I think you would need to consult Nick on that. I don’t do vegetables with the exception of sweet baked beans with onions, brown sugar, liquid smoke and catsup/ketchup. On that doctrine I am dogmatic. Of course, the Amish might think my bean doctrine is too showy and most likely would be dogmatic about a plain bean doctrine. I really don’t think they would go beyond plain to a casserole, regardless of bean type.

  23. Bridget wrote:

    @ Gram3:
    And then there is my Grandma’s warm German potato salad to throw into the mix

    That is clearly heterodox, if not outright heretical, in the South. I have heard rumors of such heretics creeping in unawares to the Potluck, but so far have not seen that myself.

  24. numo wrote:

    @ Headless Unicorn Guy:
    There are lots of breakaway churches in PA, Ohio and IN, and there are groups of Amish and Old Order Mennonites in places you’d never expect. It sounds like there are indeed some in your area.

    They were on the station platforms this morning, speaking among themselves in a form of German. Phoned my writing partner with this development, and he responded “They’re Amish”. Amish in SoCal… I think a bit of Weird Al Yankovic is in order:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOfZLb33uCg

  25. Gram3 wrote:

    I think you would need to consult Nick on that. I don’t do vegetables with the exception of sweet baked beans with onions, brown sugar, liquid smoke and catsup/ketchup.

    With me, it’s onions, a dab of BBQ sauce, and sliced smoked sausage.

  30. JeffT wrote:

    Orthodox only if topped by Tater Tots

    Yet another innovation and corruption of sound doctrine. You have capitulated to Idaho culture, my friend. Do you have any idea where this will lead? The next thing you know, people will be substituting all manner of things for cream of mushroom soup. They may even introduce things like real cream and mushrooms! Repent!

  31. Tim wrote:

    I’d take “Shoo Fly Pie and Apple Pan Dowdy” out of either of their kitchens!

    Any thinking man would take Dinah out of the kitchen.

  32. BeenThereDoneThat wrote:

    dee wrote:

    If you ever see any stories, please point us to them.

    This one will enrage you and break your heart. One of the saddest stories is of one girl named Anna. When her mother found out that Anna was speaking about her sexual abuse she brought her to a dentist and had all her teeth pulled out.

    http://legalaffairs.org/issues/January-February-2005/feature_labi_janfeb05.msp

    Oh that is a litany of horror & woes. I could lost the will to live.

  33. @ jonathan:
    It is 3 bean salad. at church potlucks when I was a kid we always had to eat last and that is pretty much what was left over. To this day I say yuck

  34. Gram3 wrote:

    JeffT wrote:
    Orthodox only if topped by Tater Tots
    Yet another innovation and corruption of sound doctrine. You have capitulated to Idaho culture, my friend. Do you have any idea where this will lead? The next thing you know, people will be substituting all manner of things for cream of mushroom soup. They may even introduce things like real cream and mushrooms! Repent!

    Here in Minnesota we take an anabaptist approach and have established our own community. In fact, using the term “casserole” brands one as an outsider – here it’s a “hot dish”. We do allow for cream of chicken soup, although we look askance at it. Non-canned substitutions are strictly verboten!

  35. @ Gram3:
    Oh for crying out loud – we Dutchies love yummy baked beans, so i think looking up some PA Dutch recipe books is your next mission, should you choose to accept it. 🙂

  36. numo wrote:

    @ Gram3:
    Oh for crying out loud – we Dutchies love yummy baked beans, so i think looking up some PA Dutch recipe books is your next mission, should you choose to accept it.

    Every time I’m in PA Dutch country, I go on a quest for Roast Pork & Sauerkraut.

  37. @ numo:

    Actually, I have a couple of Amish cookbooks I picked up while visiting an Amish community. I’ll have to check their formulation of the doctrine of Beans.

  39. @ Bridget:
    my family never did, but they doctored them in other ways. My mom and grandma could both make canned baked beans taste almost as good as homemade!

  40. @ Headless Unicorn Guy:
    you’re lucky that you can eat sauerkraut. It disagrees with me, so my roast pork is always just that, with mashed potatoes. No “good luck” for me, either on New Year’s day or at any other time.

  41. @ Gram3:
    Everyone has their own way of handling the dish; btw, it’s a common thing for everyone back here, along with bean soup. The Amish are by no means the only ones who make “Amish” dishes.

  42. @ numo:
    P.S.: one of my favorite things is dry-bottom shoo fly pie. My grandma made it, but it is quite rare, though (imo) much more fun to eat than the typical wet-bottom pies. It reminds me of gingerbread.

  43.   __

    “Better than a chubby bunny contest?”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQX7GoWHvbo

    hmmm…

    A moment of your time?

    According to the Words of Jesus found in the Bible, God wants to give you a free gift: 

    Eternal Life. 

    huh?

    God Almighty is still asking ‘today’ : “Do you want it?”

    (Please consult the Bible for details…)

    cheers!  🙂

    Sopy

    —

  44. @ numo:
    Though some will immediately assume I’m trolling for the apple farmers, here’s an alternative to sauerkraut that I love: Sweet onions and crisp apples in the pork roast pan or in a sauté pan with pork chops. Seems vaguely German to this not-German person.

  45. Gram3 wrote:

    Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
    My writing partner describes the relationship between the various groups this way:
    * You have Anabaptists.
    * Mennonites are one step beyond Anabaptist.
    * Old Order Mennonites are one step beyond Mennonite.
    * Amish are one step beyond Old Order Mennonite.
    * (And Old Order Amish are (presumably) one step beyond Amish.)

    Aside from trivial doctrinal matters, the really important thing that they have in common is an affinity for pie. All kinds of pies, though there may be scattered sects of fruit-pie only or cream-pie only fundamentalists. They may have further fractured into lattice-top pastry tops vs. full-crust pastry tops vs. streusel tops for the fruit pie purists and meringue vs. whipped cream for the cream pie purists.
    I suppose it is analogous to southern (small s) Baptists and our doctrines of Potato Salad. There are the mustard vs. no mustard sects, and the boiled egg vs. no boiled egg sects. Sweet relish vs. dill. Bacon vs. no bacon. That is what you get when there is no central authority or creedal statement. Chaos. Pure, delicious, Spanx-exploding chaos.

    Mustard, boiled egg, dill, mayo (not salad dressing). Little bit of chopped fresh onion for crunch. Celery is optional. That is the One True Potato Salad.

  46. Xianatty wrote:

    @ numo:
    Though some will immediately assume I’m trolling for the apple farmers, here’s an alternative to sauerkraut that I love: Sweet onions and crisp apples in the pork roast pan or in a sauté pan with pork chops. Seems vaguely German to this not-German person.

    Laura Ingalls Wilder wrote about fried apples and onions and made it sound delicious. I happen to like apples in German-style red cabbage. But yes, one of my favorite things to do is saute sweet onions in butter until caramelized, put a layer of rinsed sauerkraut and onions down in a Dutch oven, gently lay in pork chops or a pork roast, top with more sauerkraut and onions, cover, and bake slowly until the meat is falling apart.

  49. refugee wrote:

    Mustard, boiled egg, dill, mayo (not salad dressing). Little bit of chopped fresh onion for crunch. Celery is optional. That is the One True Potato Salad.

    Problem is, I have to avoid mayo. Food sensitivity to the egg albumin in it; irritates my stomach lining resulting in nausea.