Ray “Ducky” Ortlund: Church Conflict Can Lead to Death

Though the doctors treated him, let his blood, and gave him medications to drink, he nevertheless recovered. 
 Leo Tolstoy

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102 Days of Shameful Silence

As pressure mounts for members of the NeoCalvinist community to acknowledge the terrible turmoil in Sovereign Grace Ministries, some members appear bound and determined to relegate this situation to the realm of "gossip." Yep-gossip, in the same category as "Matilda sure looks fat." TWW is coming to the conclusion that there is a collusion in this community to shore up SGM leaders and religiously ignore the many victims of abuse.  That is saying a lot since Dee hates conspiracy theories. On the same day, Justin Taylor here and Frank Turk here (quite interesting bedfellows) republished the exact same article by Dan Phillips on the issue of "gossip." Taylor also quoted Ray Ortlund in his post who had this to say about gossip

  • Gossip is our dark moral fervor eagerly seeking gratification.
  • Gossip makes us feel important and needed as we declare our judgments.
  • It makes us feel included to know the inside scoop.
  • It makes us feel powerful to cut someone else down to size, especially someone we are jealous of.
  • It makes us feel righteous, even responsible, to pronounce someone else guilty.
  • Gossip can feel good in multiple ways. But it is of the flesh, not of the Spirit.
  • . . . Gossip is a sin rarely disciplined but often more socially destructive than the sensational sins.
  • Gossip leaves a wide trail of devastation wherever and however it goes – word of mouth, email, blogging, YouTube.
  • It erodes trust and destroys morale.
  • It creates a social environment of suspicion where everyone must wonder what is being said behind their backs and whether appearances of friendship are sincere.
  • It ruins hard-won reputations with cowardly but effective weapons of misrepresentation.
  • It manipulates people into taking sides when no such action is necessary or beneficial.
  • It unleashes the dark powers of psychological transference, doing violence to the gossiper, to the one receiving the gossip and to the person being spoken against.
  • It makes the Body of Christ look like the Body of Antichrist – destroyers rather than healers.
  • It exhausts the energies we would otherwise devote to positive witness.
  • It robs our Lord of the Church he deserves.
  • It exposes the hostility in our hearts and discredits the gospel in the eyes of the world. Then we wonder why we don’t see more conversions, why “the ground is so hard.”

On Justin Taylor's blog, there ensued a discussion on whether this post was making a statement about the SGM debacle.  In other words, it might appear that Taylor is implying that everyone needs to shut up. And why is that? Ray Ortlund was a member of a three man panel which exonerated CJ Mahaney a year ago. This is one move that he must live with for the rest of his life. 

In August, 2011, TWW wrote a post Is CJ Mahaney Fit For Ministry? here

Dave Harvey, Acting President of Sovereign Grace Ministries, announced two weeks ago that the SGM Board established a preliminary panel to help them “evaluate CJ. Mahaney’s fitness for ministry”, as stated in this post.  At the beginning of this update, Harvey wrote:

“We invited several men to participate who had basic doctrinal agreement with Sovereign Grace Ministries, biblical/theological expertise, pastoral experience, and perspectives from a variety of evangelical traditions. Kevin DeYoung, Carl Trueman, and Ray Ortlund accepted.”

The identities of these men were not disclosed until after they rendered their finding on whether Mahaney was fit for ministry. And here is the preliminary panel's conclusion (drum roll please)…

We do not believe C.J. Mahaney’s confessed sins have disqualified him from Christian ministry. Or to put it positively, from all that we have seen, heard, and read, we believe C.J. Mahaney is, at this moment in time and based on those sins which he has acknowledged, still fit to be a minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ and a pastor to others.”

This was written after CJ temporarily stepped down from ministry after embarrassing revelations on his reign as chief "apostle." It was the misplaced confidence of Trueman, DeYoung and Ortlund which exonerated him and gave him the boldness to come back and take off for greener pastures in Louisville. If you read the entire post, you will see that Ortlund started his "gossip shtick" way back then.

Obviously, these three men demonstrated their general lack of spiritual discernment in light of what has since been revealed. I also believe that their endorsement of Mahaney led directly to the victims realizing that they had to take bolder actions to get their cases heard by the public at large. Combine this atrocious support with the absolute uselessness of the Ambassadors of Reconciliation (a waste of money in my opinion) and I believe that they (along with Ambassadors of Reconciliation) are partially responsible for the necessity to file a class action lawsuit. Had they listened and acted accordingly, things might have been different today.

Instead, in my opinion, these three men threw the victims under the bus. They refused to hear the cries of the wounded in SGM and decided to emphasize the camaraderie of the good old patriarch boys club. By the way, it is important to point out that Ortlund got speaking gigs from SGM and, as we all know, speaking gigs help pay the bills.

So, OK, Ortlund is in the bag for Mahaney. So what?  A pastor's gotta earn his speaking engagement money.  As Matt Redmond said in his book, The God of the Mundane,

There are two types of pastors, those who speak at conferences and those who want to speak at conferences.

But, recently Ortlund made a statement that goes beyond the pale.

Let me set this up. Some commenters, responding to Taylor's "gossip" post were obviously of the opinion that the point of this post was to point fingers at the "gospelly" incorrect critics of SGM. If he denies this, then he is guilty of ignorance. There is rising concern on the SGM situation being expressed throughout the blogosphere, as far away as South Africa. This topic has become the elephant in the room and the Calvinista community is aware of it, even if they deny it. It appears to bubble beneath the surface of everything that they write and say, whether they like it or not. 

Therefore, it appeared evident to the commenters that Taylor, along with Ortlund and Turk, are also supportive of the tomb-like silence on the part of the patriarchs of The Gospel Coalition. So, the "gossip" post did not go over well with some folks. A couple of commenters appeared to make the point that child sexual abuse accusations cannot be put in the same category as "Matilda eats too much."

Here are two comments.

From Leila:
“Gossip is a sin rarely disciplined but often more socially destructive than the sensational sins.”
 "Really? More destructive than the sexual abuse of children and the subsequent cover up?"

From Scott:
Thank you Leila. This needs to be said continually until TGC speaks up. Their silence is their own condemnation.

This was not well received by Ortlund who upped the ante that the "holiness" of the "gossips" is now in question.

There are many wrongs in many churches. They should not be swept under the rug.

But leaping to conclusions doesn’t help. Foundational to justice is the difference between an accusation and a fact. The moment we overlook that distinction, we risk unleashing our own injustices, no matter how wrong anyone else might later prove to be.

May God be honored and his people holy.

Justin Taylor remains silent but the commenters do not.

From Patti:
Depending on the circumstances, sometimes ‘leaping to a conclusion’ is the correct response. When someone hears about child sexual abuse cover up in a church, that is a subject as important as if someone heard about a real ticking time bomb in a sanctuary. Oh, don’t gossip to anyone about it, no one will worship in there anymore. Hopefully the bomb is a dud. We need to find out that fact first.

She then comments (added at 7:00PM)

“Is that why you leaders are so silent? You are worried about ‘releasing your own injustices?’


Maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean, I promise not to gossip about my assumptions of what I think you mean in case I am really jumping to conclusions before I understand.”

Ortlund is now frustrated and says something that is one of the most stupid and spiritually abusive statements that I have read in a long time.

Thanks, Patti. I will not enter into an extended discussion in a comment thread. I will just say this.

Some years ago a friend came under intense accusation. The accusations were untrue. But he lost his ministry position.

Later in the very day when he left that ministry, my friend’s mom found his dad on the floor of the hallway in their home. He had collapsed. He was moaning, “My son, my son.” Five months later, the man was dead.

I wonder if my friend’s accusers thought through in advance what the full human impact of their pursuit would be.

Well, that made me determine that, for the rest of my life, I will try to be cautious when I don’t know all the facts. People can be badly hurt by false accusations. They can also be hurt by injustices that are never confronted. Both are harmful. And isn’t that what we all want — to protect all innocent people from harm?

Make sure you read this carefully. He is accusing people involved in an "unfair" church conflict for causing an elderly man's death.  As many of you know, my husband is a cardiologist so I decided to ask him about this "medical diagnosis" on the part of Ray "Ducky" Ortlund who is now posing as a medical  forensic pathologist.(Remember that commercial-"I'm not a doctor but I play one on TV? You get the drift). For those of you who are not fans of NCIS, "Ducky" is the name of the forensic pathologist played by David McCallum.(Gotta love that guy!)

I read him the statement without identifying who made it. My husband made a good point. He said that Christians have been subjected to all kinds of persecution, real persecution, throughout the centuries. They marched bravely into the Coliseum, served as torches for Nero's garden parties, stood up to repressive regimes and there does not appear to be any record of wholesale "sudden death" five-months after the beginning of such stressors.

He remarked that  initial incident could have been a mini-stroke (TIA). The fact that he was "moaning, My son, my son," may not be pointing to the cause of the incident. Those words could have been on his mind prior to the initialization of the event. In other words, if the event affected his speech center, the repetition of words would be a possible indication of the area of the injury. One cannot diagnose cause and effect without extensive testing.

At this point, hubby stopped and asked me if this was a doctor who made that statement. When I said it was a pastor, he said that way too many people like to play doctor and do so dangerously. He said that such a statement is emotionally manipulative and not true in any provable way and the pastor should be downright ashamed of himself. I told him it was the latest in a series of CJ supporters who are trying to get people to shut up. He laughed but was angry at the same time.

He elaborated further.  The death, five months later, cannot be positively linked to the "moaning" event, unless it was shown that a TIA had indeed transpired. If a TIA had occurred, and it was due to a slowly bleeding aneurysm, then further bleeds could have occurred, leading, eventually, to death. However, only an autopsy could have revealed this. Furthermore, one cannot assume that a bleeding aneurysm is caused by stress. We know of  a 23-year-old young man, a family friend, who died peacefully in his sleep, due to an aneurysm and he was healthy and not under stress. Nor did he have any precursors that were recognized.

Justin Taylor must approve of this statement. How do I know? Well, we took a screen shot of comments that came in after this masterful display of Calvinista hubris, and they were deleted. Ducky's "Death by Church Conflict" statement stands as the parting shot comment of this post. Taylor, at the minimum, should have asked "Ducky" not to play doctor and should have removed the comment as  irresponsible speculation meant to falsely accuse a group of people of causing the death of his friend's father.  

Oh, I forgot. Taylor is allowing all "ping backs' to his post that came in after Ducky's folly . Why? Maybe because these show how many sensible people are positively quoting his blog. Bet the "ping back" to TWW from this post disappears, tout suite. By allowing this comment to stand, without disagreement, appears to mean that Taylor is implicitly implying that this assessment has a basis in reality. This does not speak to his discernment, does it? 

This entire statement is manipulative and abusive.  "Ducky" actively accuses his friend's "accusers" of killing this elderly man. Is that the sort of codswallop this man is preaching?  Does he make ridiculous statements like this in his sermons without fact checking?  This was the man called in to judge CJ Mahaney's fitness for leadership?! Oh good night! No wonder the "nones" are on the rise.

Let me end this on some talking points that "Ducky" must overlook in order to ignore the SGM mess.

  1. There are now 18 churches who have fled SGM oversight. This is unprecedented. TGC has remained silent on this "reality" as well which means that their silence has nothing to do with proof but with ideology. How sad.
  2. There is a class action lawsuit, outlining many horrible cases of child sexual abuse. Rumor has it that more are on the way. The Bible, according to one deleted commenter, say that 2-3 witnesses are necessary to take thing seriously. TGC is actively ignoring this "biblical" mandate.
  3. "Ducky" Ortlund, Justin Taylor, SEBTS, SBTS, John Piper  and others have already made a decision to  support Mahaney and SGM regardless of the well-documented extent of problems.  They are actively choosing him over the many victims, and they know it. He is being allowed to address all of their money making conferences and is given glorious introductions. What would Jesus do? Not this.

I  can assure you that the victims understand that these men are ignoring the cries of the afflicted. But CJ is taken care of and that is what this is all about. There is no more hiding. The agenda is exposed and "Ducky" Ortlund's comments show the length to which these men will go to prop up their buddies. 

Let me end on this question. Those who are concerned about SGM are concerned for the cover up of child abuse with a number of well documented incidents. Ortlund accuses people, without cause, of killing a man. Who is guilty of gossip and bearing false witness here?

PS I have screen shots of all the deleted comments. I wonder why Taylor keeps up the obvious gossip comment by Ortlund?


 

102 days of shameful silence

 

Lydia's Corner:Deuteronomy 31:1-32:27 Luke 12:8-34 Psalm 78:32-55 Proverbs 12:21-23

Comments

Ray “Ducky” Ortlund: Church Conflict Can Lead to Death — 105 Comments

  1. So what’s interesting here – and nearly ubiquitous in these kinds of screeds – is that Mr. Ortlund does exactly what he claims to be condemning: he makes a wild speculation based on an unsourced and unverifiable story, and then compounds the error by using his “deduction” to prove some kind of universal moral rule.

    It’s self-contradictory and irrational, but if I had a quarter for every time, etc. etc.

  2. The ‘tomb-like silence’ is so descriptive and accurate – as opposed to their prolific blogging and media where they control all the comments. It’s all about control with these guys, and their legalistic fear-mongering about gossip is another feather in their ‘control cap’.

  3. Looks like they are using the same tactics as always ..same garbage , different day . When will these men open their eyes and hearts to the broken in their midst ? This type of garbage makes the name of Christ “look” bad to an unbelieving world, not speaking up about the rape and abuse of little babies and then demanding justice be done!! Their sins are being found out , and they are panicking ..

  4. Dee, it was actually my second comment that Ray was replying to, I think because I asked him a specific question about his ‘risking unleashing our own injustices comment:
    Ray Ortland,
    Is that why you leaders are so silent? You are worried about ‘releasing your own injustices?’
    Maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean, I promise not to gossip about my assumptions of what I think you mean in case I am really jumping to conclusions before I understand.

    I really did want to think that maybe just maybe he had a more unselfish reason, but his answer bothered me so much that I couldn’t figure out how to respond to it, so I just commented here that he was joining the conversation which I was at least happy about for that much. Then by the time I had realized that his answer really only confirmed what I thought he was saying and I wanted to talk more there, well, then they shut the dialogue down, letting him have be last word. The kind of communication he uses when asking “isn’t that what we all want, to protect all innocent people from harm?” cause more heart issues with me than anything else, can I hold him liable if I have a heart attack? My BP is 148/66 at the moment, I need to go do something else now. Breathe, calm down. Think Seinfeld humor, SERENITY NOW !!!!

  5. Patti

    Thanks for the update. i have screen shots of all of the comments but it was too much of a pain to copy and paste them but I can if it becomes an issue. However, I love having my screen shot up of the ping back. It has the time stamp on it. I am waiting for the deletion. 

  6. Pingback: Misreading Statements, Jumping to Conclusions, & Selectively Leading Readers | Think Theology

  7. @ dee: I hear you on the time factor, but also think it would help tremendously to post screen caps. That’s documentation that is much-needed in these kinds of situations.

  8. @ Dave A A:
    The Tolkien quote:
    “Good morning!” he said at last. “We don’t want any adventures here, thank you! You might try over The Hill or across The Water.” By this he meant that the conversation was at an end.
    “What a lot of things you do use Good morning for!” said Gandalf. “Now you mean that you want to get rid of me, and that it won’t be good till I move off.”
    I am equating “Good Morning” with “My last word. God bless you!”

  9. This entire statement is manipulative and abusive. “Ducky” actively accuses his friend’s “accusers” of killing this elderly man.

    Unspoken (in the manner of Mark Twain’s “The War Prayer”):

    Accusers like the SGM lawsuit, the abuse victims, Wartburg Watch and all who comment here, Deb, Dee, Julie Anne, Eagle — Your Gossip(TM) Could Kill A Great Man-o-Gawd! And GAWD WILL HOLD YOU ACCOUNTABLE(TM)!! TOUCH NOT MINE ANOINTED!!! DO MY PROPHET/APOSTLE NO HARM!!!!

  10. numo

    I have all of the comments and the caps as a screen shot. I just excerpted that one. I have proof, I tell you, proof!! I think I need a break.

  11. Patti wrote:

    The kind of communication he uses when asking “isn’t that what we all want, to protect all innocent people from harm?” cause more heart issues with me than anything else, can I hold him liable if I have a heart attack? My BP is 148/66 at the moment, I need to go do something else now. Breathe, calm down. Think Seinfeld humor, SERENITY NOW !!!!

    1) All people are Innocent, but Some Are More Innocent Than Others. The Humble One and Predestined Elect being the Most Innocent.

    2) Patti, I recommend a field trip to the magical land of Equestria. Get hold of the DVD My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic First Season and watch it through (26 episodes @ 22 minutes each = 9 1/2 hours total). That’s about all that’s kept me sane for the past couple years.

  12. ” Ortlund accuses people, without cause, of killing a man. Who is guilty of gossip and bearing false witness here? ”

    I know, amazing is it not? He cannot even see that HE ENGAGED in GOSSIP according to his own definition!

    But this is how it is in pastorland. They have this special dispensation to do exactly what they tell others not to do and we are not supposed to notice. Wait! Who does that sound? Oh yeah, the Pharisees.

    Blogging really has not been kind to them of late. They do much better when they only orate from stage instead of engaging the peasants who tend to ask too many specific questions.

  13. Ortlund: ‘ I will try to be cautious when I don’t know all the facts. People can be badly hurt by false accusations. They can also be hurt by injustices that are never confronted. Both are harmful. And isn’t that what we all want — to protect all innocent people from harm?”

    Except little children. Celebrity pastor reputations are always more important.

  14. Well, you see, gossip seems to be reserved to the lower class – the congregants. Apparently these pastors can not and do not engage in such a thing. The reality is that spiritual bullies use the no-talk (gossip) rule and this allows abuse to continue unchecked as we’ve seen in SGM and CC.

    Dee, I tweeted and tagged, you, Justin Taylor, Ray Ortlund, CJ. I didn’t want them to think anyone was gossiping about them: https://twitter.com/DefendTheSheep/status/302588385661431810 Maybe they can come over and join in on the conversation.

  15. anon 1 wrote:

    Blogging really has not been kind to them of late. They do much better when they only orate from stage instead of engaging the peasants who tend to ask too many specific questions.

    Bloggers like me like it when they blog. Their true colors are exposed for all.

  16. Hmmm…that list of what gossip does…if you take out the word ‘gossip’ & put in ‘control’ or ‘manipulation’, or ‘cover-ups’ they seem to work equally as well, if not better: ‘Cover-ups erode trust & destroy morale’. ‘Cover-ups ruin hard won reputations with cowardly but effective weapons of misrepresentation’. Try it & see!

    That whole death statement by Ortlund is pure emotional manipulation, & nothing more. I would use a British word, rhymes with ‘rollocks’, starts with a ‘b’….This is a not a case of unsubstantiated gossip of against a group of people, but a well attested criminal case that is going to trial, the accusations are public & are not tittle-tattle…

  17. What strikes me is how many of the “statements about gossip” could also apply if the sin in question was the sexual abuse of children. Try these, for example:

    It erodes trust and destroys morale.

    It makes the Body of Christ look like the Body of Antichrist – destroyers rather than healers.

    It robs our Lord of the Church he deserves.

    It exposes the hostility in our hearts and discredits the gospel in the eyes of the world.

    On a slightly different topic (and as always, apologies if this has already been discussed), I heard an interesting radio interview on my way home from work today. It was with the maker of the film “The Invisible War,” a documentary about the hidden problem of sex crimes in the US military. I thought the filmmaker’s conclusions were apt in light of the Penn State and SGM crises. She said that one of the factors that had helped these crimes reach epidemic proportions was the fact that they were handled internally by unit leaders who knew the perpetrators too well to prosecute them in an unbiased manner. When DoD officials watched this film, they relieved the unit leaders of this responsibility, giving it instead to higher-ups who were further removed from the cases. This, she said, has made an impact, but she went on to note that other countries have gone even further and seen more progress by making accusations of sex crimes an external (= non-military) matter. And that’s exactly the problem with churches handling sex abuse cases in-house. If they truly wish to preserve the reputations of their ministries, church leaders must recuse themselves in cases of child abuse. I think that evangelical leaders have focused so squarely on how much the world needs the church and how hostile the relationship between church and state can be that they have forgotten that the church needs the state, too, and these cases are a good example. The movie is on Netflix and is now in my instant queue.

  18. Natalie

    I am tired of the games that wussy boys play. Real men and women stand the courage of their conviction. We take the criticism better than they do. 

     

  19. Funny. Ray’s brethren in TGC have no problem judging other men unfit for ministry (cf. Owen Strachan’s recent, venomous attack of a professor), calling folks heretics, or prejudging Rob Bell’s new book (cf. Denny Burk). I guess they’re no longer judges when it’s one of their own.

    Ray, Carl Trueman, and Kevin DeYoung gave a public stamp of approval to CJ and SGM. We can argue all day about the legitimacy of their investigation, but the truth will come out. At some point they’re going to have to explain how or why they overlooked these atrocities. It may serve them best to be open and honest starting now.

  20. “It unleashes the dark powers of psychological transference, doing violence to the gossiper, to the one receiving the gossip and to the person being spoken against.”

    Whut the whut?

    Dark powers of psychological transference?

    Seriously? What is that supposed to mean?

  21. Real and true texting “conversation” from just last Sunday– paraphrased:
    Former Friend: It’s all your fault we can’t be friends anymore!
    Generous Woman: Oh…
    FF: It’s all your fault I can’t pay you back the $1000 I owe you!
    GW: Not really…
    FF: All you care about is money!
    GW: That’s not true!
    FF: You won’t get any money if I’m DEAD, now WILL YOU?!?!
    GW: What do you mean?
    FF: I’ll kill myself, that’s what I’ll do, and it will all be your fault!
    GW: Don’t say that!
    FF: STOP TALKING TO ME!!!

    Not so real and true story from real and true Chick tract:
    (Paraphashing) A man owed my friend a thousand dollars. “Yers can kiss yer grand goodbye, Bub!”
    Exact wording, “My friend forgot to pray for that man. Two weeks later… that man and his girlfriend plunged to a Christless grave!!” (Cartoon of car going off cliff into diabolical flames)

  22. @ Tikatu:

    What does that mean is right, especially when some of these men don’t believe in psychiatry to begin with and then Ray Ortlund lays that egg. CJ Mahaney himself would have to denounce that statement since he has ranted extensively against psychiatry.

  23. ScotT,

    Great comment! They (the three-man panel and certain outspoken Calvinistas) believed they could control the flock and never thought it would come to this.

    I agree with Dee’s contention that the declaration that Mahaney was ‘fit for ministry’ likely contributed to the filing of a class action lawsuit.

  24. @ Dave A A:
    Oops- forgot punch line from Former Friend (remember, she sent first text). After Generous Woman didn’t reply to the “STOP TALKING TO ME”, FF sent, “I don’t have time for all this! You’re making me late for church!”

  25. Comparing notes today on SGM Survivors about which SGM churches have left and which are still around. There is some interesting detail, but the short version is that of about 80 US churches that were listed in 2010 or 11 there are now about 60. Twenty or so have left. That’s a 25% loss just in numbers of churches; which doesn’t take into account the size, age, or significance of the departed ones. Several of the remaining ones are less than two years old, and at least 29 of them don’t have their own buildings; which is an indicator of how established they are. (At least 20 of them do have their own buildings. Some of these are what SGM calls “replants” which means they took over an existing church.)

    The source for the information I give just above about the age of the churches and their buildings is SGM’s own website and the linked websites of the churches. I visited over 60 websites of SGM churches today and now I’m going to have to spend A LOT of time on TWW (or maybe reading Harry Potter:) as a sort of cleansing regime.

    I noted with queasiness that the children’s ministry at one of the little related churches is called “Entrust.”

  26. “Gossip is our dark moral fervor eagerly seeking gratification.”

    What exactly is “dark moral fervor”? Confused.

    “Rumor has it that more are on the way.”

    DEE YOU JUST GOSSIPED! 😉

  27. Totally off topic but I am desperate! My smoke alarm is beeping every 60 seconds and I have replaced the battery. Any ideas?

  28. Phoenix

    Is it plugged into your electrical system? If so, turn off your breaker and turn it back on. If that doesn’t work, pull the unit down and detach one of the wires. It’s a mess but you may have a short.

  29. Ortlund’s comment is kinda over the top. Whether it is “abusive,” I don’t know, but then I’ve never been abused so I don’t necessarily know what would be triggering or not.

    At the very least the situation needs to be ACKNOWLEDGED by these guys…and they shouldn’t be inviting Mahaney to every other event as if the lawsuit doesn’t even exist. Whether it’s an active coverup/conspiracy or just a case of mass denial – personally I’m rooting for the latter, as I hate conspiracy theories too and I’ve seen more than enough denial to know how powerful it can be – it certainly doesn’t look good to delete/censor comments referencing the suit and go 100+ days without even mentioning it (after several national media outlets already picked it up).

  30. Phoenix wrote:

    Totally off topic but I am desperate! My smoke alarm is beeping every 60 seconds and I have replaced the battery. Any ideas?

    In my case it would require turning off the oven/stove, but that’s probably not your problem. 🙂 (Sorry I’m not any help)

  31. Phoenix

    I saw those numbers. That is proof that TGC is not remaining silent due to "not spreading falsehoods." This is a deliberate attempt to prop up TGC. If 20 churches suddenly left the PCA, Mohler and gang would be into instant analysis. 

    Let me tell you a Harry Potter story.I was delivering Boy Scout popcorn a few years back with my son. The lady at one stop was standing outside and watched us drive up. My son put his Harry Potter book in the trunk when we got out the popcorn. She asked me, in a very stern tone, if I allowed my son to read that and I said I did. She began to lecture me about the evils of that book. I remained silent.

    We carried in her popcorn and I saw boxes of books laying around. She was an educational and fictional book saleswoman for schools. I saw one box and realized they were Harry Potter books. So, I was a bit miffed and decided to get passive aggressive-bless my heart. I asked her if she sold Harry Potter books. She suddenly realized where I was going. She said yes, So, I asked her how she could sell so many of the books that she thought were evil. Wasn't that like spreading the evil and profiting off of it? She had nothing to say. My son told all of his friends!

  32. Hester

    Did you know that it is against the blogging code of ethics to remove a comment without placing a note on the blog that a comment as been removed by the editor? However, as I just told someone else, the thin skinned people at TGC do not care about following Emily Post manners. After all, manners were invented by deceived women.

  33. @Phoenix – take the battery out and happily burn the toast 🙂
    Sorry, not any help to you. I get annoyed when it happens in the middle of the night when I (was) asleep…

  34. Tikatu wrote:

    “It unleashes the dark powers of psychological transference, doing violence to the gossiper, to the one receiving the gossip and to the person being spoken against.”

    Whut the whut?

    Dark powers of psychological transference?

    Seriously? What is that supposed to mean?

    To paraphrase the guy who wrote Malleus Malefacarium:

    “WITCHCRAFT!!!!!”

  35. Hester wrote:

    At the very least the situation needs to be ACKNOWLEDGED by these guys…and they shouldn’t be inviting Mahaney to every other event as if the lawsuit doesn’t even exist.

    Remember that Cee Jay Tribute/Lovefest worthy of Dear Leader Comrade Kim Jong-Il?

  36. Bridget wrote:

    What does that mean is right, especially when some of these men don’t believe in psychiatry to begin with and then Ray Ortlund lays that egg. CJ Mahaney himself would have to denounce that statement since he has ranted extensively against psychiatry.

    As has L Ron Hubbard…

  37. Julie Anne wrote:

    Well, you see, gossip seems to be reserved to the lower class – the congregants. Apparently these pastors can not and do not engage in such a thing.

    Gods can do no wrong.

    This especially includes Little Tin Gods.

  38. @ Headless Unicorn Guy:

    Thanks for the My Little Pony tip, I will have to see if there are still any old VHS tapes of them left in my daughters collection. Kind of ironic to our discussions though. Many years ago my brother-n-law abruptly yanked his family out of our house when they were visiting because he noticed that our kids and his were watching My Little Ponies. He didnt explain why they suddenly had to go. I had to confront him later and thats when I learned that My Little Pony was evil. He showed no love or concern or care about how rejected my daughters felt by the rude departure. I would have gladly played a video that they would have approved of. Oh, and did I mention that he’s a Calvary chapel pastor?

  39. Sadly, this mentality is common due to the fact that in the Bible nothing could be further from the truth. When the kids mocked Elisha as a possible prophet, he was vindicated. The man caught in in adultery in I Cor. 5 he was handed over to affliction. I personally know a man who was falsely accused of a matter, but he had a bad issue of slandering others as well.

    When Luther confronted the corruption of Pope Leo, the pontiff died. When Luther became malice toward Jews, he died shortly after.

    So many preach Malachi 3:10 and tithing to their congregations; yet Paul in the letter to the Thessalonians said that he often worked late into the night to help those who supported him as to not be burden. Have we lost sight of the balance of mercy mixed with proper fear of God (letter of Jude)?

  40. In my opinion any pastor etc. who would defend CJ Mahaney after all that has come out about him and SGM shouldn't be trusted either. This is one of the very big reasons we left the SGM church we had attended for 10 years. We saw how the pastors dealt with a sex abuse case and were shocked by the way it was handled. All I could think of was the lack of wisdom and discernment they displayed and the lack of love expressed to the victims and all the mercy and freedom given to the perpetrator.

    That's when we began thinking of the fruit we saw coming from this "ministry" and knew we didn't want to be a part of it anymore. We witnessed those who didn't fit the SGM mold, were not cared for either, and outcast in many ways. We were asked to sacrifice so much for our church and community group etc. So many meetings to attend and on and on and on. We realized it wasn't worth investing in because of the lack of fruit coming from it. The writing was on the wall.

    If these well-known pastors defend CJ and his ministry and ignore all of the stories being told by those of us who were there and those who were abused, then they are no different and I would not attend their churches or support their ministries because something is very wrong. The fruit they bear is not good, and there is a reason for that – there always is.

    Dee and Deb, thank you for sounding the alarm on this and so many other important issues!! You have given a voice to those who haven't had one; otherwise, this probably would have all been swept under the rug.

  41. @ Dee:

    I didn’t know there was a blogging code of ethics. Doesn’t surprise me. Like I said before, censorship is bad news no matter who does it. If TGC doesn’t want people to believe that they are covering up the lawsuit, they should at least MENTION it, even once – even if it’s just to say that they don’t believe the accusations and are taking the stance of innocent until proven guilty. Which I would still disagree with, but it would be better than silence. As I said before, acknowledgement.

    John Piper and the others who were never involved with SGM (to my knowledge, correct me if I’m wrong) are probably just in denial or taking it on faith that due diligence has been done. Personally, I wouldn’t be so cavalier about so many accusations, esp. given the 2-3 witnesses standard, but that’s Piper’s business. If even more names are added to the suit (as you implied they might be), it will become even more serious.

    It can be very hard to admit that you were wrong, or even that it’s possible you might be…but it has to be done sometimes.

    Also, since not everyone in the comments was involved with SGM or super-familiar with all the details, would you consider doing a timeline/overview post for folks like me who found this late in the game? So many names fly back and forth and it can get a little confusing at times.

  42. Hester,

    I can imagine how confusing this must be for those who have never been a part of SGM.

    Dee and I will discuss how we could write an overview of what has gone on within this 'family of churches'.

  43. Addendum @ Dee:

    “If 20 churches suddenly left the PCA, Mohler and gang would be into instant analysis.”

    Yes, I also can’t help but suspect this is true. Or if a similar class action suit had been filed against a mainline denomination. Heck, just imagine what would happen if the Episcopal Church USA (home of the infamous gay bishop) had a child sex abuse scandal like this, esp. if it was men abusing boys. How long do you think it would take for it to be splashed everywhere, maybe even linked (or at least implied that could be linked) to the fact that they let gay people into their churches?

    I am also reminded of the fact that the Dinesh d’Souza kerfuffle was given only a perfunctory mention deep in the bowels of Fox’s website and never mentioned on their TV programming, while every other major news network had brought it up publicly and several Christian publications had run at least one or two articles on it. Of course Fox had been promoting 2016 pretty heavily so…

  44. @ Deb:

    A timeline, a “dictionary” of major names/churches and what they are accused of and/or how and when they were involved…and a summary of the Detweiler docs, unless this already exists elsewhere. I tried to read through them to be fully informed, but you need a LOT of spare time to read 1000+ pages of documentation.

  45. Hester wrote:

    Also, since not everyone in the comments was involved with SGM or super-familiar with all the details, would you consider doing a timeline/overview post for folks like me who found this late in the game? So many names fly back and forth and it can get a little confusing at times.

    Hester, here is an SGM timeline someone put together. You might find it helpful: http://www.dipity.com/JennGrover/SGM-Crisis/

  46. Important update: The smoke alarm I replaced the battery in was not the one that was beeping. This is me feeling sheepish (insert sheep image here –baaaa.) Switch made,all peaceful in the Phoenix home. Except two yapping little dogs — another story!

    That Jenn Grover timeline is very helpful. She has also created a spreadsheet of the churches that have left https://skydrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=1204CB255C38A39D!11248&cid=1204cb255c38a39d&app=Excel.

  47. ” am also reminded of the fact that the Dinesh d’Souza kerfuffle was given only a perfunctory mention deep in the bowels of Fox’s website and never mentioned on their TV programming, while every other major news network had brought it up publicly and several Christian publications had run at least one or two articles on it. Of course Fox had been promoting 2016 pretty heavily so…

    Which reminded me of how the other news sources ran with the story from Hillary that our dead ambassador was caused by a video and spontaneous. They never qualifed that story, either. Sorry, but for every bash on one side, there is another bash on the other. At least with D’Sousa there were no dead Ambassadors and those working with him.

  48. Lee wrote:

    androidninja wrote:
    Please don’t call him Ducky. He doesn’t have the wit or the expertise.
    Maybe Quack suits him better

    🙂

  49. @ anon 1:

    Like I said, censorship is a problem no matter who does it. Why would you assume I was implying that only one side censors?

  50. Addendum @ anon 1:

    We were talking about Christians whose missteps have been ignored by organizations who had previously promoted them. D’Souza is a much more analogous case than Benghazi.

  51. Sorry but the liberal slant is getting old. Fox is not “Christian”. Rupert Murdoch a “Christian”? Give me a break. If there is profit in Christianity, I am sure he is right there.

  52. Dee and Deb, I just sent you a long e-mail. I am following the blog of a man whose son was the victim of sexual abuse by a member of his congregation (where the man was a preacher. This is not an SGM story). When the preacher and his wife filed charges against their son’s abuser, some members of the congregation were upset that they didn’t try to “work it out” with the abuser.

    On October 10, 2011, the abuser–who was out on bail–broke into the preacher’s house and murdered the preacher’s wife and son (the same son who was the victim of abuse.) Had the wife not managed to get their 5-year-old son out of the house, it’s likely the 5-year-old would have been murdered also.

    After the funeral, the preacher was asked if the son “derived any pleasure” from his encounters. Three weeks after the funeral, the preacher was asked if he’d “gotten over it” and was ready to go back and preach.

    When the preacher began his blog (at http://www.lesfergusonjr.com), many of his Facebook friends promoted it. While much of the reaction to his blog has been very positive, one person wrote that if the blog didn’t “admonish or uplift” it shouldn’t be. In other words, he should just shut up, nurse his grief in private, and “put on a happy, godly face” in public.

    This case was not a result of systemic abuse from a church organization. But some of the reactions to this event remind me of what SGM victims, and their advocates, have been told.

  53. Lin wrote:

    Lee wrote:
    androidninja wrote:
    Please don’t call him Ducky. He doesn’t have the wit or the expertise.
    Maybe Quack suits him better

    Trust me, “Ducky” Mallard would have done a much better job on this case! 🙂

  54. @ Tina:
    What that man and his family are going through is awful! Why, indeed! I couldn’t help but cry while reading it. And you’re right that there is no shortage of people who stand by the perps, and tell the victims they just don’t have enough “love” and “forgiveness.” Victims show their love and forgiveness when they do not retaliate with the same violence that has been inflicted on them.

  55. Tina

    Oh my goodness! I look into it and we will feature his story if it will be of help to him. Thank you so much!!!! This is a good example of how much we rely on our readers to help us find these stories.

  56. @ anon 1:

    I never said Fox was Christian, I said Dinesh D’Souza was a Christian. He and his film were promoted by Fox News, which then opted to not cover the scandal he created for himself. This isn’t a “liberal slant,” these are easily verifiable facts. I thought of d’Souza because we were talking about scandals in the Christian community. Benghazi did not originate in the Christian community so it didn’t even occur to me. I am not automatically showing a “liberal slant” if I criticize conservative news outlets from time to time.

  57. Hester

     Good comment: “If TGC doesn’t want people to believe that they are covering up the lawsuit, they should at least MENTION it, even once – even if it’s just to say that they don’t believe the accusations and are taking the stance of innocent until proven guilty. Which I would still disagree with, but it would be better than silence. As I said before, acknowledgement.”

    They are actually caught between a rock and a hard place. By not speaking, they don’t have to answer questions. So, it is business as usual-promoting CJ and SGM.

    Once they say something, they are now open to the valid criticsm that they are, by declaring CJ inncoent until proven guilty, saying that the victims are telling a lie and are guilty unitl proven innocent. Then they will be told that they should not promote CJ until this is settled. For some reason they must promote him. People will get to the bottom of this and it will indict those who continue to heap coals on the heads of the abused.

    If this all boils down to moeny from conferences and contracts that must be enforced, they will look like a bunch of mini-Madoffs.

  58. Replace the word “gossip” with “Calvinism” in Ray Ortlund’s bullet points and you’ll finally have something resembling the truth from these neo-Reformed gnostics.

  59. I am very grateful to Vince Coakley for SGM Detox.

    I listened to the entire broadcast and believe it will be therapeutic to both current and former SGMers. I appreciated Dr. Steve Crosby's insights as well.

    Given the hyper-authoritarian structure of SGM which results in the systematic silencing of the sheep, I believe the call-in part of the program has the potential of being extremely beneficial to not only those who phone in but the listening audience.

    Bravo Vince!

  60. This guy needs to realize that gossip and sexual abuse are miles apart in terms of the pain they cause. Gossip is really irrelevant to the fact that a court case has been filed and names have been named, and children who are now adults are now talking. Gossip is a rabbit trail. Those accused IF INNOCENT would be talking about this IN PUBLIC to clear their names…I would be furious if someone accused me falsely, and I would be glad for the courts to clear my name. Kind of like a drug test before employment…you can test me anyday you want, because I don’t take drugs! THE SILENCE of these guys is speaking LOUD and clear….we are scared, we are afraid……of the truth…………

  61. At this point, with all that has now come out, and with SGM’s own churches bailing ship, you would think that instead of calling the discussion of these issues “Gossip” that people who have been previously supporting of Mahaney could say that the allegations are very disturbing, that the matter is in court, and that they want to see justice done and hope and trust that the courts will sort this out, but that they are not in a position without all the facts to make judgments about what happened and did not happen. They can reiterate that they deplore child abuse, and that they believe it should be reported to and dealt with by the civil authorities. When asked if they have talked to Mahaney about this, they can say “no” because it is a legal matter.

    As to whether Mahaney is still platform speaker at events and such, that can be dealt with privately. Mahaney himself could issue a statement saying that he has decided not to appear at public events such as this until the events are wrapped up legally. He could continue to pastor, I suppose. That would be up the members of his church.

    All of that seems like it would be within the range of appropriate commentary in situations like this.

    But to accuse people of gossip for talking about matters that are now part of the public record and are at the center of a lawsuit does not seem sustainable.

  62. Oh, btw way, caught a lecture by Judith Riesner on CSPAN – American History TV. It was a lecture about the sexualization of children, the role Alfred Kinsey played in that, and how it changed the way sex among and with children was viewed and punished (or not) in the U.S.

    After the publication by Kinsey of his “research”, major legal academies and the ABA began an overhaul in the way sexual crimes were viewed, discussed and punished.

    Reisner had one quote from the Vanderbilt Law Review from 1962 which said that a 6 year old girl could be a seductress of an adult male, that the adult could not refuse, and that accordingly, the punishment for his molestation should not be great, or that he should not be punished at all because she initiated and consented.

    There were also published statements in the academic literature that recidivism among child molesters was very low. I kid you not.

    Thankfully, society is looking at these things in a differently now, but from about 1950 until 1985 or so, child molestation began to be treated in a very weak way.

    I am not sure what stemmed the tide and reversed the course, but I am so glad that happened, and I hope it continues.

  63. @ justabeliever:

    “This guy needs to realize that gossip and sexual abuse are miles apart in terms of the pain they cause.”

    Could this be a case of strain out a gnat while swallowing a camel?

  64. justabeliever wrote:

    Those accused IF INNOCENT would be talking about this IN PUBLIC to clear their names…

    Just a minor picky: There are times when people can’t discuss the details of cases currently under investigation because they have been told to by the courts, so there’s a limit to what they can talk about in public.

    But having said that, and I think another poster here has said something similar, the least these people could do is acknowledge that there IS a lawsuit, there ARE accusations going around, and that they look forward to the day when it’s all resolved in court. To remain totally silent is deplorable.

  65. @ Hester: Piper has served as a “mentor” to C.J. Mahaney, though the definition of “mentor” in this case might be something other than what is normally thought of when mentors and mentoring come to mind (imo, anyway).

  66. Anonymous

    There is one more thing that all of these guys could say that would make a world of difference. There is no question, in these instances, that child sexual abuse occurred. Some of these perverts were prosecuted and convincted. The lawsuits are dealing with the alleged cover up on the part of SGM. Not one pastor or theological “leader” has expressed their love and concern to those children who were abused. And that, to me, shows their hearts. 

    Instead, they introduce CJ Mahaney, most recently at SEBTS, with glowing accolades while ignoring those who are hurt. That is not being neutral, that is active endorsement. I find that despicable.

    These guys should pay him his speaker fees and tell him to go away for awhile.

     

  67. Patti wrote:

    Thanks for the My Little Pony tip, I will have to see if there are still any old VHS tapes of them left in my daughters collection.

    Patti, those are the earlier generations of MLP. I’m talking about the currently-running series, Friendship is Magic. It’s got more depth and has demonstrated all-ages appeal. And Season 1 came out on DVD two months ago.

    Kind of ironic to our discussions though. Many years ago my brother-n-law abruptly yanked his family out of our house when they were visiting because he noticed that our kids and his were watching My Little Ponies. He didnt explain why they suddenly had to go. I had to confront him later and thats when I learned that My Little Pony was evil.

    Yeah. Cartoon Ponies are Satanic/Occult. Well, it’s been over ten years since Harry Potter (over 20 since D&D) and the Kyle’s Moms/Witchfinders-General are sniffing about for a new Righteous Cause. Just last year I assisted on a long MLP fan novel one of whose themes is the difference between natural Pony magic and unnatural Occult magick (http://www.fimfiction.net/story/27032/My-Little-Balladeer). They say that a dying horse lets out a terrifying scream; I have no wish to hear that scream from the throats of Rarity or Fluttershy burning at the stake for Witchcraft.

    Yes, I have always been more able to empathize with fictional characters than RL people. And it does tie back to this thread in a way. Kids are being raped and Christians are crusading against the Devil’s Great Threats of Our Time, Harry Potter and My Little Pony.

  68. dee wrote:

    Instead, they introduce CJ Mahaney, most recently at SEBTS, with glowing accolades while ignoring those who are hurt.

    All Dance Joyfully With Great Enthusiasm Before Comrade Dear Leader!!!

  69. Patti wrote:

    I had to confront him later and thats when I learned that My Little Pony was evil. He showed no love or concern or care about how rejected my daughters felt by the rude departure. I would have gladly played a video that they would have approved of. Oh, and did I mention that he’s a Calvary chapel pastor?

    Not surprising. When I was listening to Christianese AM radio in the late Seventies (when Calvary Chapel dominated the local airwaves), Pastor Chuck Smith(TM) would often go on these foaming-at-the-mouth radio rants about SATANIC/OCCULT Star Wars. Guy would denounce Star Wars at the drop of a hat (always Satanism and Occult Mysticism) and he usually dropped the hat himself. It was like Al Bundy and his high school football career or John Kerry and When I Served In Vietnam.

  70. It really infuriates me that all of these big name speakers/pastors/”mentors” are stubbornly planting their flags with SGM and CJ. When is the judgement day going to be when those men realize that they have sunk with the ship? It is hard for me to watch how CLC is still “not” dealing with my family when there is abuse in my dad’s past with my siblings, and even though he is on church discipline, there still seems to be this nonchalant attitude towards abuse. Emotional and spiritual abuse doesn’t even make it onto the radar, and physicaly/sexual abuse is now being taken seriously, but only if it has happened recently and is still happening.

    I am grateful for you Julie Ann, and you both, Dee and Deb, and the countless others who are sounding the alarm, I just hope that it is not in vain.

  71. on a point of clarification…

    I know CLC is no longer under SGM, but I think they are still under a lot of influence from the way CJ and others have dealt with abuse and difficult situations in the past. It’s hard to hear people say that the church is changing, but I can tell it’s going to be YEARS in the making before they are really out from under the chains of CJ’s manipulations.

  72. That comment by Ortlund makes me wonder if he just made up that story to justify himself. It seems like a stretch enough to hear something like that and form that conclusion. It fits the scenario almost too conveniently. I call fabrication.

    I think I can understand why some may be standing by CJ. If it were my best friend in the crosshairs, I don’t suppose I would even entertain the possibility of the accusations being true until he was handed a guilty verdict. Even then, I would just begin to look at the evidence, and if I found it convincing, I would them be utterly shocked and make a public statement about it.

    However, my best friend is not a public figure and leader in the church whose integrity I have upheld and who is now being confronted by a multitude of witnesses. They should have at least read the documents and had a conversation with CJ about this. The fact that it’s business as usual makes it really look like they just don’t care. That’s ugly.

  73. I am grieved for the victims of SGM abuse. At the same time, I am also thankful that such a tragedy is becoming a catalyst for positive change.

    The tactics of the TGC and the Calvinistas that, thus far, have been relegated to a congregational context are now being used out in the open, on a very public and international scale. More people are being exposed to the strange, twisted, and manipulative tactics used by these folks, and for that I am thankful. It is surreal to see Justin Taylor, Ortlund, et. al. do and say very similar things to what my wife and I experienced during our Acts 29 church’s abuse! At the time, we felt hopeless because our leaders’ misdeeds were swept under the rug, kept behind the curtain, and otherwise hushed up. With the SGM situation, however, these guys are just letting it all hang out for the entire internet to see! (Hush-hush tactics, lack of communication, passive-aggression, bullying, deleting comments, manipulation, etc.)

    Blessed be the Lord, who shines light into darkness and who brings healing to the broken. May he tenderly comfort those who are mourning as a result of SGM abuse, and may he swiftly deal with those who refuse to submit to His commands re: protecting the innocent, the abused, and especially the little ones.

  74. Miguel

    Nice to hear from you. I think this situation will be a black mark on the NeoCalvinist movement. Their abject silence in the face of so much pain speaks volumes about the state of their hearts. Definitely two sizes to small to quote a Grinch who, in some respects, might make a good mascot in their circles.

    I know you are a great musician. If you know of some particularly moving pieces on You Tube, we would appreciate a heads up. We are always on the lookout for good music for E Church.

  75. Mr.H wrote:

    With the SGM situation, however, these guys are just letting it all hang out for the entire internet to see! (Hush-hush tactics, lack of communication, passive-aggression, bullying, deleting comments, manipulation, etc.)

    Amen!
    FWIW, Ortlund’s response to me about CJ:
    ‘I’m going to have to disagree with you on this one, David. Sorry. But I do not believe I owe the Church any public statement beyond what was formally and properly requested of me long ago. Here is how I see it now: “Who made me a judge or arbitrator over you?” (Luke 12:14). My last word.’
    God bless you.”
    BTW: I had told him he owes It to CJ, as well, to ask him to lay off the public ministry right now.

  76. Dee, you are too kind. I check in on every post here, but find myself agreeing too much with commenters to have much left to add. 😀
    But if I run across anything I think you may like, I’ll send it your way. In the meantime, if you haven’t seen this, its a hoot, but with a little truth to it:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhYuA0Cz8ls

  77. This gets me so angry! It reminds me of how people always want to excuse everything Mark Driscoll says by saying “It was only one comment” and ignoring that he has a history of such behavior. Same thing here. Ortlund’s all “Oh, just because someone stepped forward and said something once doesn’t mean we need to lynch SGM” Well, when do tons of witnesses shouting their stories over a long period of time become enough evidence to make one rightly suspicious? In a year? Two years? Ten? Fifty? EVER?

    Furthermore, as far as I’m aware, this isn’t just about railroading an individual out of the organization and making “a pastor lose his ministry over gossip” or whatever. This is talking about the mode of operation of an entire organization. People are saying that the atmosphere and theology at SGM as a whole has created an environment where people are victimized. That’s not the same thing as saying “Oh, did you hear about Pastor Bob? I saw him on Mary’s front porch the other day so that means he had an affair!”

    I agree that people shouldn’t jump to conclusions and harm individuals with gossip, but I don’t think any of that (very excellent) advice actually applies to this situation.

  78. Miguel

    I loved that video. I plan to show it to a bunch of people. Hallelujah, man! I once was lost….

  79. Listened to the first couple minutes of Piper’s sermon at SGM Louisville…disappointing, but not surprising…

  80. sad observer wrote:

    This gets me so angry! It reminds me of how people always want to excuse everything Mark Driscoll says by saying “It was only one comment” and ignoring that he has a history of such behavior. Same thing here. Ortlund’s all “Oh, just because someone stepped forward and said something once doesn’t mean we need to lynch SGM” Well, when do tons of witnesses shouting their stories over a long period of time become enough evidence to make one rightly suspicious? In a year? Two years? Ten? Fifty? EVER?

    This reminds me so much of what I heard about Stalin’s “Red Fanboys” in the Thirties and Forties and their remnants I encountered sprinkled through the Social Justice movement in the Eighties. Drooling Fanboy behavior in that the object of their worship Can Do No Wrong. Ever.

    What you are talking about are Driscoll Fanboys, Mahaney Fanboys, Calvin Fanboys, and SGM fanboys. And a fanboy has so much of his own identity and worth tied up in his object of worship he can never let go and must defend his obsession at all costs.