When Everyday Pastors Tell “Whoppers” Like Ergun Caner and Ed Young Jr

Posted on by July 1, 2011avatar

"Men stumble over the truth from time to time, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened."         Winston Churchill

 

Hubble Telescope in 1998

 

 

Introducing a New Service: Tracking Urban Legends in the Pulpit

 

Years ago, I heard Ed Young Jr tell a moving story of how he witnessed to a clerk in a tie shop. He shared with his audience "his" clever way to share the Gospel. After the service, in the “shake Ed’s hand” line, I heard the man in front of me tell Ed that he liked the way Ed told that story better than the way Bill Hybels told it. Ed quickly moved him on.
 

I ran after this man, who would become a good family friend, and he told me that the story was one that Bill Hybels frequently told, right down to the tie shop. He also said that Bill Hybels, through the Willowcreek Association, provided sermons for use in other churches. I felt deceived. From that time forward, I listened for any use of this “technique” in church.
 

Most readers know the sad story of the lies of Ergun Caner. One would think, after such embarrassing exposure, he would become more cautious in telling tales. Not so, it seems! Tom Rich, over at FBC Watchdog, just wrote an excellent post in which he exposes Caner’s continued walk on the wild side. I think this illustrates the danger of those who see nothing wrong with “stretching the turth.” Here is a link to his post entitled: Ergun Caner Latest Sermon: Still Telling the Same Stories, Still Stretching the Truth


 

Here is an excerpt:
 

(Caner speaking recently) "Turkish, immigrant, Yankee. I know. Turkish, born in Stockholm, Sweden, but Turkish – immigrant, Yankee. Raised as a Sunni Muslim, got saved in Columbus, Ohio. Why in the world would I be telling you all this? Because I have heard and seen my people before – even Christians who come out of my background – and sometimes they're very hard to understand. [speaking now in a fake, heavy Middle Eastern dialect]: 'I am very happy to be here, thank you so much, take this as a spoon from my country, please pass it around, thank you'. Do you know why you can understand me? Seventeen years ago, God got me married to a girl from Brookwood church….Turkish, immigrant, Yankee, married a girl from Hall (sic Haw) River, North Carolina."

 

(Rich’s apt analysis) “Actually, it was a kid raised in Ohio married a girl from North Carolina – big deal. So again, Caner is trying to plant t language, or that had a heavy accent, that he and "his people" were very hard to understand, and that it was his marriage to a country girl that allowed people to understand him when he speaks. If he were truthful, he would say that when he came here to the states he was two years old and has never spoken anything but English.”

 

I hate urban legends. You know, the stories that are forwarded to you and 10,000 of your closet friends. I have made it personal mission to stop Christians from forwarding nonsense. How many of you remember the old Proctor and Gamble executives are Satan worshippers hysteria? Link 
 

When I heard this story repeated by a woman in a Bible study, I asked her how she "knew" this fact. She claimed it had been said on the Phil Donahue show. I asked her if she saw it and when she started to nod her head, I told her that Proctor and Gamble had been forced to begin to sue those who spread these false rumors. She immediately became quiet. It is sinful to spread tales that are easily disproven by taking a few minutes to verify the story. ( I am a pain in Bible studies).

 

A few years back, I listened as a pastor in my church told a whopper. He claimed to have had personal experience with this story.  However, I had been sent this "true" story so many times that I decided to verify it on Snopes and knew that it was fiction based on a short story in a magazine called “Teddy’s Story.” Here is a Link to Snopes which repeats the story and verifies that it is false. How many of you have heard pastors repeat this story?

 

I sent the pastor an email with this link. He responded and said that he was sorry, claiming he had trusted his “source.” All’s well that end’s well, right? Wrong. Six months later, this same pastor retold this exact story with me sitting, once again, in the congregation. Being proactive, I went to see the lead pastor. He told me that pastors in certain traditions routinely embellish their sermons in order to make a point and that it was to be “expected.” Confused, I said, ”Pastors are to be expected to lie?” Needless to say, he wasn’t exactly thrilled with me. A current pastor calls these stories "professional lies."
 

How many of you heard sermons illustrated with the old frog story? Supposedly, if one puts a frog in the water and increases the temperature slowly, it will make no attempt to escaped and will boil to death. Pastors love this story to illustrate how gradual, frequent sin can be more deadly than a one-time big monster sin. The problem is the story is false. Here is the link.

 

I find it astonishing that pastors, who preach for the Giver of the Truth, do not take time to check the truth of what comes out of their mouths. In fact, I was astonished to learn that there are sites from which a pastors can purchase both sermons and sermon illustrations. Here is a link to one called Sermon Central. 

 

Here is an example from the site.

"Need a Great Illustration?

  •  Exclusive 5-star sermon illustrations
  •  Premium sermon video each week
  •  New PowerPoint every day
  •  Collect favorites, premium tools, and more …

Learn more about PRO or Try it free"
 

Here is a list of the site's available sermons for those pesky Fourth of July Sundays.

  • The Greatness, The God, The Guilt Of America [independence Day]
  • I Pledge Allegiance To The Lamb
  • Is America A Christian Nation?
  • Temptations Americans Face
  • The Path To Blessing – Our Lives And Our Country
  • Five Principles For Spiritual Victory
  • One Nation Under___?
  • Independence Day

 

Here is a question for pastors who purchase these sermons and then proceed to use them. Is this any different than a college student purchasing prewritten term papers? And isn't that considered plagiarism which results in expulsion?
 

Here are a few thoughts for consideration. One can substitute the word “church leader” for pastor.
 

  • The Internet makes it easy to check the veracity of a story immediately. Last week, during a sermon, a friend, on his IPhone, checked a story the pastor told. Unfortunately, it proved to be false. Can you imagine what this looks like to outsiders?
  • One more specific observation, pastors must be very cautious about spreading scientific “facts.” Check them out, carefully.
  • Any pastor, who passes off another person’s experience as his own, is lying to his people. It also raises the question if the pastor is effectively engaged with people. A pastor who is busy serving the Lord will have wonderful and true experiences to share.
  • True stories beat fiction any day of the week.
  • If a pastor is determined to use another pastor’s experience or writings, he must give credit to that pastor, even if he “bought” his sermon.
  • Any pastor who does not check to make sure his illustration (frog in the water) is true, is guilty of shoddy sermon preparation and of misleading his congregation.
  • Anyone in the congregation who does not check what the pastor is saying is also lazy. The Bible commends the Bereans who checked out what they were taught.
  • Any congregation that demands that a pastor have a bunch of really cool stories needs to be challenged to grow up and seek the truth.

 

It is important to tell the true story of the work of God in the lives of a pastor and his congregation. Can you imagine if the New Testament was just a bunch of made up stories instead of the truth? What would happen if historians could prove that Paul did not really go on his journeys and had actually stayed home and opened a pizza shop? 

 

Finally, as a service, TWW would like to make a list of the “stories” and “facts” told from the pulpit. We could make a running list and do updates on the Christian stories “du jour.” Please send in your examples, either as comments or emails. We'll place them on a new page under the "about us" section and then, as we get a good number, will feature them in posts.

 

Lydia's Corner: 2 Samuel 4:1-6:23 John 13:31-14:14 Psalm 119:17-32 Proverbs 15:31-32

Comments

When Everyday Pastors Tell “Whoppers” Like Ergun Caner and Ed Young Jr — 41 Comments

  1. There is a frequently used “statistic” about the fraction of the people who have ever lived that are alive today. “Over 50%” seems to be often mentioned. This is clearly not right. The best estimate I have heard came out around 7% (best in the sense that the method used to estimate the number was given) and even that seems high.

  2. By all means … let’s get started (this sounds like fun)

    NASA scientists have discovered the missing day of Joshua’s time.

    This story has been circulating in its NASA version at least since the 1960s. NASA denies that this ever occurred. The story goes back to a book by Charles Totten entitled “Joshua’s Long Day and the Dial of Ahaz: A Scientific Vindication” (1890). Harold Hill told his version in “How to Live Like a King’s Kid” (1974). Hill, the former president of the Curtis Engine Company of Baltimore, was involved in diesel engine operations at Goddard, but had no involvement with any computer operations.

    Mike Warnke was the head of a satanic coven before becoming a Christian.

    Mike Warnke’s ministry and public profile are based upon the story he tells of his previous involvement with Satanism. As written in The Satan Seller, the story goes like this: a young orphan boy raised in foster homes drifted from whatever family and friends he had to join a secret, all-powerful satanic cult. First, he descended into the hell of drug addiction. Then he ascended in the satanic ranks to the position of high priest, with fifteen hundred followers in three cities. He had unlimited wealth and power at his disposal, provided by members of Satanism’s highest echelon, the illuminati. And then he converted to Christ. A generation of Christians learned its basic concepts of Satanism and the occult from Mike Warnke’s testimony in The Satan Seller.

    A 1992 article in Cornerstone magazine provided documentation and eyewitness testimony that contradicts the claims Mike has made about himself. Much of this testimony is by close associates and friends of Mike. The article also exposed Mike’s multiple marriages and divorces as a Christian. For more detail see Cornerstone: The Mike Warnke series. Mike later admitted “I am guilty of some embellishing of the story,” although he stands by his previous testimony of some satanic involvement. An accountability board from his church was organized and has provided oversight of Mike and Susan Warnke and their ministry since 1993. Mike’s web site has more information.

  3. I actually don’t mind too much if pastors purchase sermons or sermon outlines, although I think they should avoid taking other people’s experiences and making them their own. That being said, they still need to be preaching on what God is teaching them and what they’re studying themselves in Scripture. There are lots of small churches out there who can only afford one staff member, and it’s really not fair to expect 20 hours of sermon prep in addition to being janitor, visiting hospitals and nursing homes, etc. If a pastor does this, though, he/she needs to be open and honest about it, if not during the Sunday service, then at least to the church elders.

    And, I don’t quite get why pastors want to make the illustrations from their own life. The material works just as well if it’s about an unknown or hypothetical person; and, if it’s not a true story, then say so.

    A pastor who feels he/she needs to lie to the congregation is being rather condescending. Jesus didn’t lie. But, he still connected with people from all walks of life.

    I’m currently a part of a church with four full-time staff, so the lead pastor is expected to do his own sermon prep, etc. (In fact, part of his predecessor’s spiral downward was using other people’s material as his own.) But, we also have someone full-time to handle small groups and make sure sick and elderly people are visited and prayed over along with a youth pastor and directors of worship arts. Our lead pastor doesn’t purchase sermons, but he is open about using books and other sources to help write the sermon, sometimes even bringing the books up and reading a paragraph or so. But, he’s honest that sermon prep is time-consuming.

    Yet, I know there are churches in the area that have only a pastor. If I was a part of one, I wouldn’t be too upset about that person using another pastor’s material as long as they give credit. The difference between this and buying a term paper is that the student passes the material off as his/her own. The pastor should be honest that he got his outline or material elsewhere.

  4. More…

    The “eye of the needle” refers to a gate outside Jerusalem.

    “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God,” says Jesus in Mark 10:25. Maybe you’ve heard of the gate in Jerusalem called the “eye of the needle.” The camel could pass through it only after stooping down and having all its baggage taken off.

    The illustration is used in many sermons as an example of coming to God on our knees and without our baggage. The only problem is… there is no evidence for such a gate. The story has been around since the 15th century, but there isn’t a shred of evidence to support it.

    2. The high priest tied a rope around his ankle so that others could drag him out of the Holy of Holies in case God struck him dead.

    Various versions of this claim have been repeated by pastors, but it is a legend. It started in the Middle Ages and keeps getting repeated. There is no evidence for the claim in the Bible, the Apocrypha, the Dead Sea Scrolls, Josephus, the Pseudepigrapha, the Talmud, Mishna or any other source.

  5. I suspect that if the people in the pulpit were the types of people who rigorously checked facts, required evidence and validated information then we’d have a lot fewer people in the pulpit.

  7. Anon

    Hmmm, there are several ways to interpret your statement. Is it the pastor becomes smart and less faithful or churches only hire smarter pastors or they wouldn’t make it through seminary or???????

  8. I would think that any discerning Christian reader would doubt the authenticity of the Ed Young Jr. story based on the fact that he was buying a necktie, a scenario that could only be surpassed in its unlikelihood if, say, Mark Driscoll were purchasing a necktie.

  9. Karlton,

    Love the anecdotes, especially the christian “urban” legends. Where did you find them ? ( well, you spent 25 years in “business”, so you must have been familiar with the lore ). Is there a list somewhere online ?

  10. I was taught that the “eye of the needle” is/was a specific rock formation, not the Jerusalem gate. Don’t remember all the documentation provided with the explanation, but it made sense to me at the time.

    The fact that Caner married a Haw River gal cracks me up — the Haw River dads I remember would’ve met a foreigner in the driveway with a loaded twelve-gauge. Cocked!

  11. Yinka,

    I found several sites with basically the same list of 6 or 7, do a google search for “Christian Urban Legends”,
    and yes, I’ve heard more than my share…pretty much any story that starts with “In the beginning”..oops I meant “Once upon a time”, is going to be fiction of some sort. 🙂

    Seriously, while preachers and evangelists do have a habit of stretching the truth in order to make a ore interesting or compelling story, I suspect they are following in a grand tradition that goes back to statements like… “Hey, while I was up on the mountain all alone, God spoke to me and gave me a set of rules for all of you to follow”, or maybe “Yes, children, when our people reached the sea, Moses raised up his arms and God parted the sea so we could cross”, or “Yes sweetheart, he really turned the water into wine…now go to bed…no more stories”…you get the idea 🙂

    It’s just that now, we are in a position to check those fish stories (not just Jonah or the feeding of the 5000), so it’s more difficult to get away with, but people will still believe just about anything, our ability to close our eyes and hear only what we want to hear is the most amazing “miracle” of all.

  12. Karl

    I believe that you will never be able to prove the Bible as a fiction. And believe me, many have tried. Even if the followers make up stories, that does not mean the original is fictional.

  14. Nickname

    Please add “Having first packed up the ladies and sent them away to Aunt Lola Mae’s, whose husband runs the week long tent revivals in the mountains.”

  15. Dee,

    With great respect, that comment shows precisely what a great deal of the problem is…the burden of proof, so to speak, is not on me to disprove, it rests squarely on the shoulders of the person who is making a claim which is extraordinary or out of the norm of our daily experiences. Every Christian, if they wish to be intellectually responsible, should understand that concept.

    It is like the “flying cat” in my earlier post. If a person claims they have at home, a cat with wings, which can fly. It is not reasonable to put me in the position of having to disprove it or be forced to believe you really have one. The reasonable action, is to require the maker of the claim (the person who says he has a flying cat), to provide objective and sufficient evidence to convince others.

    Given what we know about cats and animals in general, it is also not reasonable for anyone to “believe” flying cats could exist without extraordinary proof being offered…it is after all, an extraordinary claim.

    The same is true of the Bible’s claims of miracles, claims of events which run contrary to everything we know, the existence of supernatural beings who live beyond our space-time continuum and a God who apparently has virtually every superpower that every superhero in the comics has ever possessed and more.

    Do you really think it is a rational thing, to ask me to believe in all of that, simply because I am unable to “disprove” it’s existence?

    I find that difficult to believe.

  16. Thanks Dee. Just found your website last week and I’m really enjoying it. I especially appreciate your willingness and civility in engaging those with views you don’t necessarily agree with.

  17. Karl

    I understand your viewpoint. I have presented the, much beloved by the atheists, “Flying Spaghetti Monster” argument on this blog. I do not “expect” you to believe on the “can’t disprove it” assumption.

    I have been most open to all the arguments you have well expressed. I have also read all of the Big Four atheists and have spent years reading and thinking at the ExChristian website. However, all the arguments do nothing to dissuade me from the explanation of life as I perceive it that Christianity as given me. The longer I go along, the deeper this faith becomes.

    The Bible seems to indicate that their are some who cannot hold onto the faith for many different reasons. Perhaps you are one, perhaps not. Time will tell. As you know, hope is considered a gift from God and I will continue to “hope” when it comes to ol’ Karl!

  18. Sergius

    Thank you for seeing that I try to respect those who disagree with some of my beliefs. I wish that everyone who visits here would see that as well. I have been accused of being a sell-out and also too conservative.

  19. Dee,

    I know 🙂

    It is not an easy thing to break free of years of indoctrination and since it is so closely tied to friends, family, and social groups…it is even more difficult….but fear not…I too have hope.

  20. Those Caner quote make me cringe. (For his family’s embarrassment, among other things.)

    I went to grad school with some Turkish students, and not only were they fluent in English, they had been studying English since they were very young, as part of their regular school curriculum. Lots of people in Turkey have never attained their level of education, but still… those who do finish secondary school and undergrad *have* studied English.

  21. Karlton – I’m more partial to your “pink and green spotted ducks that can walk up treetrunks” analogy, if only because the image is so silly and makes me laugh! (Not your argument, the ducks. ;))

  22. Stories from the pulpit: the Columbine story. Supposedly when the shooters asked “Who is a Christian?” one girl stood up and said “I am” and they shot her dead. It’s not true, but I’ve heard it used multiple times from the pulpit as an example of standing up for our faith, etc. The worst time was when the pastor made the point, told the story to bolster it, then (possibly in response to my vigorous shaking of the head “no!”, we’ll never know) added “Even if the story is NOT true, it reminds us that…”

    If the story is NOT true, why use it???

    I don’t mind pastors purchasing sermons, as long as they give credit where necessary and don’t tell stories as their own. It’s not hard to say “There is a story where…”

    I AM getting very tired of the cute little devotional personal miracle stories used in studies and sermons. I doubt 99% of them, and I bet I’m right. That’s not helping my faith walk.

  23. Numo,

    Thanks lol, I’ll keep that in mind next time I am trying to make the same point…by the way if you can up with a better analogy PLEASE let me know…

    Tell me honestly, (I promise not to tell), does it really make ANY sense for a person to believe in something that will radically impact their daily lives…and the one life that they KNOW that they have, in the absolute absence of objective and overwhelming evidence?

  24. I have had two personal supernatural experiences that I cannot prove objectively. But you cannot convince me to the contrary, because those experiences were mine. I have disclosed one elsewhere on this blog. I do not plan on revealing the other.

    I do know that my parents’ faith kept them together through a difficult period, and made them better parents and partners in life. I know that the faith of my great uncle led him to be a businessman who believed that the reason to be in business was to help people to have a job that paid a wage that enabled them to support their family, and that as much of the profit as possible should be reinvested to continue that pattern. He preached that sermon on his last birthday, at 101 years of age, in a time when executive greed was rampant. Due to rapid growth of the business he became incredibly wealthy and gave away the stock in his company (actually sold it to employees at actual cash value (market would have been substantially higher), loaned them the money to buy it at 4% interest, allowing them to pay when they could), and then gave away what they paid him.

    I have also seen the change faith has wrought in many lives.

  25. Arce,

    No one is denying that faith, hope, aspirations or dreams can have a profound effect on both an individual and society. But regardless how sincere, or profound those feelings are, they contribute nothing to the “truth” or “reality” of the object of that faith. This is something even Christian’s must admit to, otherwise you would be hard pressed to explain the faith, hope, and dreams that other people have which is based on a different God than the Christian one, or none at all and yet still has the power to transform.

  26. Karlton, I’m not feeling up to arguing/discussing your point at the moment (still a bit fuzzy-headed after some heavy-duty dental work), but I have to say that I love the menagerie you’ve created!

    one question: I tend to see your flying cats as a feline version of flying squirrels. Was that what you had in mind, or were you thinking of actual wings? (Serious question; you’ve come up with some cool – and very whimsical – animals and birds as talking points here!)

  27. I should add that the idea of flying cats makes me uncomfortable… toothy furred “raptors” swooping down on unsuspecting people comes to mind, not sweet drowsy housecats out for a spin…

  28. Numo,

    Go lay down…take a nap…float in the nether worlds of your pain medication….think of a big Clarence the cross-eyed lion with leathery pterodactyl wings…coughing up giant flaming fur balls while you run for cover in your imaginary cloud filled vanishing shelter….or maybe take a trip on the Doctor’s Tardis covered in Hawaiian leis.

    🙂

  29. Karlton, thanks.

    I don’t get hung up on the “literalness” of contentious biblical accounts. I , for one, find the metaphorical just as meaningful. If that comes across as a slippery “liberal” way of framing things, so be it.

    Btw, I believe Karlton is the Son of God : )

  30. @ Karlton: but I think the Tardis might give me motion sickness! 😉

    P.S.: Tom Baker is THE Doctor, imo.

  31. In college, I heard a Sunday School lesson that was taken point by point from a speech given at a religious convention I’d attended a few years previously. The speaker never attributed the lesson to that speech (except to make a reference to “the guy on the tape”.) The reason I knew that the lesson was taken from that speech? I had a copy of the tape, also, and I’d listened to it several times.

  32. Hats off to Arce’s great uncle! Had there been in times past both distant and recent more men like him, we would never have had a first gilded age, or a second one — along with the deleterious excesses and abuses of both —

    We would not have sold off our industrial base, shipped it to China, and allowed the financial sector to do whatever it pleased in the name of free-market fundamentalism.

    When men of substance and influence do not comport themselves as your great uncle did, it is the legitimate domain and prerogative of Government to restrain them under the full force and rule of law.

    Karlton, I must agree in a partial sense that Christianity has no corner on the market when it comes to morality. All the great faiths teach moral truths that are strikingly similar. John Adams saw this early in his formative years when his own Congregationalist minister in 1749 preached a sermon on “The Absurdity and Blasphemy of Deprecating Moral Virtue” which denied the doctrine of original sin & election (I deny them too).

    And finally to Yinka: Welcome to TWW. I thought I was the only liberal apostate infidel here. Let’s just say that I am a self-styled deist who believes in the divinity of Christ, his virgin birth, and his bodily resurrection from the dead.

  33. Muff,

    Thanks, but that wasn’t my point 🙂

    These days, I’ll take what I can get though…just kidding 🙂

  34. Dee and Deb:

    Here’s one that Tony Campolo uses.

    It’s about the mentally handicapped child who has been mainstreamed in high school, and through a confluence of circumstances ends up singing “Jesus loves me” or something like that.

    A revival breaks out. Bunches of kids come to Christ. The town has changed etc.

    When my friend heard this from Campolo the first time, he started telling his college history prof about the great story, and the college prof finished the story. Then the prof said, “That’s one’s been around for a long time.”

    One year at the SBC convention, my friends and I heard the same illustration end about 3 different sermons.

    It’s a long revival week. It’s the last night of the revival. As the speaker is leaving, in the parking lot, a 17 year old girl who had attended all nights of the revival approaches the speaker in the parking lot, and says, “Pastor, I need to know how to be saved.” “And I told her how to be saved, and she was gloriously saved.”

    I am sure this happened, and that people are inspired by mentally handicapped people, but enough with these stories.

    I have to say that some of the accounts of George Mueller give me the same vibes. I know the stories come from “biographies” and such, but it makes me wonder.

  35. Some of the same preachers that are “creative” with their stories also preach that the parables Jesus told refer to literal events and were not teaching stories, and Jesus never said he personally experienced the events of the parable.

  37. Here’s one about the mother of all garbage dumps, Gehenna. Apparently, its infamous “perpetual burnings” may not be so…incendiary after all.

    http://tinyurl.com/3to9bjz

    Hey Muff P, shalom ! May the tribe multiply and fill the earth.

  39. Another – related – thing is the use of other peoples’ writing on various Biblical subjects (very much includes actual Biblical scholarship and commentary) without crediting them.

    And by that, I don’t mean having to add footnotes, but saying that “My sermon is based on [title of book, name of author].”