A couple of days ago The Wartburg Watch received a very harsh comment which condemned the evangelical church. My first reaction was one of defensiveness. How dare he?! Look at how much the church has done for the world. I was about to make a clever comment incorporating various proofs such as the work of William Wilberforce.
And then it struck me. Last week we covered the story of George Rekers and his hired “Rentboy”, Jo-Vanni Roman. Lydia, a frequent participant on this blog, had commented about how these incidents harm the witness for Christ in the world. She, along with TWW, expressed concern for the pain this incident also caused Roman and how this might have affected his perspective on the faith.
Well, it seems like our Father in heaven may have wanted us to know how others perceive the church, especially those outside of evangelicalism. And the following two comments appeared on the blog, written by the same person.
1. "From these Baptists to the rapists in the Catholic church, we see again and again how few churches preach (or even understand) the message of Christ. Meanwhile, these churches continue to encourage the rapes and murders of gay children and adults. Hatred is a strong motivator. It helps keep the money rolling in.
If Jesus were on earth today, he would be condemning these churches with full voice. I go to my Greek Orthodox church frequently. Never, in 15 years, have I heard a condemnation of homosexuals. The day I do will be the last day I set foot in there."
2. "his scandal (meaning George Rekers) is what you find sad? What is sad is that so many churches spew such vitriol into the pews that the minds of those in the communities they serve are perverted. And because of this, young gay people are raped and murdered. THAT is what is sad, not the reputation of rotten churches filling their coffers with blood money.”
I have followed a blog known as Ex Christians.net. This blog is not for the faint of heart. It is a blog written for those who have or are in the process of leaving the faith. I have discussed many issues with these folks, and they have taught me much about the pain within evangelicalism. Their reasons for leaving Christianity are many, but hypocrisy is one of the more significant factors.
They watch the faith carefully and document many new stories dealing with pastors and pedophilia, rape, money, etc. It is not pretty. Yes, I know the objections. There are many good things the church does, but they see the negative over the positive. What is so sad is that there are so many negatives. Needless to say, the Rekers situation was discussed. I have reprinted a portion and have provided the link. This week I intend to learn how to hide a link behind a word – I am a techno-peasant…but I digress).
I would like to make one request. If you visit this site, first read and listen for a good, long while before commenting. They have heard every good argument. Many have read all of the apologetics books and some are former pastors. Be kind and be creative and for goodness sake, listen to them. I have been on the chopping block on most occasions.
…”one of the founders of the Family Research Council, Dr. George Rekers, and one of the leading voices against homosexuality coming from the Evangelical camp has been exposed after hiring a male sex slave from rentboy.com to accompany him on a great gaycation to Europe. In fact, if my axiom were a mathematical formula, and you worked the whole thing out, the solution would read something like this: "Therefore, the founder of the FRC must, of necessity, be gay himself, and will someday be exposed as a closeted homosexual, and a perverted one at that." This is how the formula works when applied to Jimmy Swaggart, to Ted Haggard, and to so many "Family Values" politicians that it's not even fun to count any more, and this is obviously how it will work, nay must work for any and every Evangelical who condemns a certain lifestyle or culture. You hate what you are. You obsess about abortion? Must be because you've had one. You obsess about pornography? Must be because you're addicted to it. You accuse "liberals" of hating America? You must secretly fantasize about treason and sedition. Last, but by no means least, you obsess about the "homosexual agenda"? Why you must have an agenda yourself, and one that includes purchasing the services of a man whore from rentboy.com for your European gaycation. You hate what you are”.
http://new.exchristian.net/2010/05/great-evangelical-gaycation-you-hate.html
The secular media has now picked up on the Caner story. I predict it will not go well for Liberty University… We will follow Liberty's responses.
So here are my questions.
– When Christians stand against the radical homosexual agenda, do we do it of arrogance, perhaps thinking that we are far more moral than they are? In that case, why are there so many divorces, affairs, and closet homosexual behavior in the church (even among our revered leadership)?
– How many of us know evangelicals who are “addicted” to Internet pornography? What happens to good men like Doug Pittman who try to bring this out into the open? Why was he kicked out of his church instead of the one caught viewing pornography on a church-owned computer on church premises? Why do those pastors caught in this behavior continue to serve as pastors? Why did the Georgia Baptist Convention pass a resolution condemning blogging when Doug was merely trying to get the truth out?
– Why are so many alleged Christians defending Caner’s lies? Just read the blogs exposing his fabrications.
– Why are so many alleged Christians defending Ed Young, Jr.’s outrageous lifestyle (not to mention the prosperity preachers)?
– Why do so many supposed Christians defend Mac Brunson and First Baptist Church Jacksonville, which appeared to be so afraid of the apparent truth on Tom Rich’s blog that they allegedly trampled Rich’s First Amendment rights? www.fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com
– While Rome is burning, groups such as Sovereign Grace Ministries allegedly allow male teenage pedophiles to continue working with children in a church setting while their big boys live in $700,000 houses and teach women that keeping toasters (or anything else for that matter) on the counter is contrary to proper housekeeping etiquette and may result in husbands being de-gifted. 🙂(Carolyn Mahaney – CJ's wife – is a former Mennonite who absolutely detests counter clutter and expects wives of SGM pastors to tow the line with her peculiar brand of godly housekeeping rules). Egads!!!!
-Why are there so many pedophiles and rapists within the SBC leadership that there is a blog dedicated to keeping track of them? How many Baptists have condemned the Catholic pedophile priests and kept their mouth’s shut about their own issues? Stopbaptistpredators.org
So many of these same people will spew vitriol on those who live unacceptable lifestyles while defending their own unacceptable behavior. And then many evangelicals will wonder why we are losing membership in the SBC and other denominations and why college students are leaving the faith in droves?
The early church had no Moral Majority and didn't spend time attempting to gain political power. In fact, many of them either served as torches at Nero's dinner parties or were sacrificed in the Coliseum. Many who watched these Christians were startled by their joy and serene spirit as they were tortured and persecuted.
And did those who avoided martyrdom run for their lives? Many ministered to their unbelieving neighbors. They formed "burial"societies. In that culture, the poor who died were thrown over the wall to burn in the city garbage dumps. These wonderful Christians would go to their neighbors, lovingly care for the dead body, and provide a dignified burial. These acts alone caused many to come to the faith. How do we Christians today measure up to the early church in this regard? Not well, not well at all…
So to our commenter, we say we are deeply sorry that we haven’t lived up to our hype. All of us who profess to be followers of Jesus Christ need to repent of our arrogance and hypocrisy. The only solution that I have to offer is Doug Pittman’s quote. “Following Christ, not man.” One day, perhaps, we will be known by our love and good works instead of our condemnations. May God forgive us all.
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We must not blame Jesus, or his other followers, for those who do bad things in his name. They will reap a reward for their behavior. The rest of us must be sure that we live a life of loving service to those who strive to live holy lives and to those who are outside the faith. As to those who damage the innocent while defending the guilty, they will also reap a reward.
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Arce,
Great to hear from you! May all of us who profess to be Christians reflect His love to those who do not know Him.
Blessings!
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Dee,
Re-George Rekers..
! quote from above..
“one of the founders of the Family Research Council, Dr. George Rekers”
I checked with my sources at FRS…
This guy is unknown to them..
Are we guilty of not checking our facts before passing this on?
GM
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Dee,
It would appear that the word’founding’ is applicable. He was on the board in 1983 but that was all.
To link him somehow with FRC now is is probably unwise in this climate of ‘guilt by association’ that seems to be rampant upon some blogs….
GM
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Good save, GM! Are you new to The Wartburg Watch?
The reason I ask is you must have missed Dee’s article on Rekers that was posted last week. Here’s the link:
http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/05/10/rekers-rentboy-and-caner-painful-hypocrisy/
In that article, Dee wrote the following:
“Rekers was a founding member of The Family Research Council along with James Dobson but has not been affiliated with the organization for the last ten years.”
You asked the following question in your previous comment: “Are we guilty of not checking our facts before passing this on?”
As you can see, Dee and I are NOT guilty of passing on false information. I would like to assure you and all of our readers that both of us are diligent to check out the facts before posting. Unlike some of the Christians leaders about whom we have written of late, we are careful to share the truth to the very best of our ability.
Dee and I often spend hours researching the information we share here at TWW. Our articles are usually well-documented. I think that’s why our readership seems to be growing.
I hope you will continue to follow TWW and comment as often as you like.
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GM
It is important to show that he has affiliated with various groups in order to build the case that he has been involved in some of these issues for a very long time. This might help us to see that he has struggled, if he has, with these issues for years and that this is not a recent behavior or compulsion.
What about churches that find pedophiles in their midst? Is it fair to that church to be affiliated with pedophilia? I think the real problem is within Christianity. There are some who actually believe that any given organization should never have any sin in their midst. It is up to us to readily point to sin our midst and deal with it, without astonishment. It is the reason that Jesus came, after all.
GM, we are all guilty be association. We are all fallen. It is my opinion that we need, as FRC has done, to admit that we have all fallen short of the glory of God and we should be surprised to find any Christian group to be “free of sin” and therefore, immune to controversy.And this is the consequence of the fall.
Imagine if, when these events occur, the Christian spokesman would say to the watching world “Jesus came because we all have the propensity to sin. We screw up every day and we need to turn to Him to forgive and heal us”. Perhaps, instead of running away from affiliating with the sin, we should readily admit it and give the world a real understanding of being saved by grace.
Blessings to you.
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GM
Why did your “sources”at FRC deny Rekers’ role in founding the organization? FRC has already made a statement in this regard.
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GM,
I tracked down the history of The Family Research Council and found the following information on their own website:
http://web.archive.org/web/20070204154035/http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?c=HISTORY_ABOUT
“The Early Years
The idea of the Family Research Council originated at the 1980 White House Conference on Families. Among the conferees, James Dobson stood out because of his rare combination of Christian social values and academic and professional credentials. A practicing clinical psychologist and noted author, Dobson had recently transitioned into radio broadcasting and also launched a nonprofit, family service organization. He felt that the time was ripe to establish an organization that would drive the national debate on family issues. In 1983, the Family Research Council incorporated as a nonprofit educational institution in the District of Columbia; its founding board included Dobson and two noted psychiatrists, Armand Nicholoi Jr. of Harvard University and George Rekers of the University of South Carolina.”
Apparently, it’s your FRC source who doesn’t appear to have all the facts. And in case you think I’m being critical of the Family Research Council, I’m not. I have heard Tony Perkins speak in person several times (James Dobson introduced him one of those times), and I am on the FRC email list. It’s incredible how many emails I get from them…
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Dee,
Don’t forget I brought out several ( the Music Minister David Barker was also a part of the explosion) at my church, who under Mike Everson was caught by me and the Church secretaries viewing PORN. It just happens the one who caused most of the battles and is now preaching at Deenwood Baptist Church in Waycross Ga – Jarrod Everson – was the son of Mike Everson.
Also, I was NOT kicked out. How can you kick someone out who had been gone for 5 months? I was at home with my family praying about joining another church we had been visiting when many members starting calling me about what Mike and his DEMONIC DEACON DISCIPLES had ATTEMPTED to have done in order to show his POWER. I could have cared less that he was the Chairman of the Executive Committee for that corrupt bunch in Duluth called the Georgia Baptist Convention.
As far as the Blogging Resolution in GA in 2007 – yeah it was meant for his protection – again I could have cared less… He (along with many others) needed exposing and I did as GOD directed….
If you want to see my website for all to read and to see how the Baptist work…Let me know.
You have had NO battles until you have battled these “Provokers” and liars.
Dee, You have personally spoken with him and found out how quick he will tell a lie. Remember the cutting tires statement…..
You know his son (Jarrod) went to Liberty – right.
Following Christ, Not Man
Doug Pittman
doug@dougpittman.com
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I really liked the long quote from exchristians “You hate what you are”. I can see why you read it! It’s absolutely true.
I used to hang with a “Christian conservative” crowd and I was always shocked by how eager they were to condemn things in others that they were doing, or at least obsessed with, themselves. I believe now it was the only way of dealing with their own “sinful nature” while not knowing the grace of God.
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Dee-Re Rykers
To correct my posting-My sources only denied knowing him and I corrected my post when I found it that he was a founding member of FRC in the 80’s
My allusion to guilt by association is my view that by mentioning an organization that he was once associated with,does nothing to Rikers reputation but does by implication taint FRC.
We should surely be more concerned with his present situation unless you have a more broader point to make.
Are we engaging in the oft political way of looking at a persons background and by doing so attaching blame to his former associates for once hiring him.
I have read your posts about this and know your research to be thorough but what is the point you are trying to make in doing this.
Please believe me, I am not trying to be ‘holier than thou’ in commenting on this .
And no I am not associated with FRC ,in case you ask. They have their facts correct.
I just misunderstood them…..
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Read around the blogosphere…Caner’s defenders are making this political. It is as if by saving Caner in his position, they can save political conservatism. But it is just the opposite.
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GM
TWW exists to look at current stories and their impact on the Christian community and those on the outside. I think my point is not getting through so I shall try another tact.
Do you remember the Tylenol scare about 20 or so years ago. Someone was putting poison into Tylenol capsules and that person was not within the Tylenol company. However, the response of the Tylenol company captivated the world and forever changed how companies do business.
They immediately recalled every Tylenol product, resulting in hundreds of millions of dollars lost. They then premiered new packaging to prevent some idiot from doing this again and that is why I still need help in opening medication bottles today!
It wasn’t Tylenol’s fault yet their response changed the way companies respond to crisis. By taking the loss an changing packaging, they were considered innovators in the business world. Their response is still studied in MBA programs today.Tylenol is one of the most respected names in the business and the consumers consistently rank it as the most consumer friendly, safety conscious company. They responded magnificently to a very unfair situation.
Here is the point with Rekers. The secular media has already picked up on the FRC angle.We are merely responding to that and thinking about ways to deal with such a situation.
We Christians sometimes come across as telling the world what to do, what is right and wrong, and so forth. Unfortunately, although we are oftentimes right in our understanding of the Scripture, we come across as “holier than thou.” And the media loves playing “gotcha.”
TWW has a suggestion to all Christian organizations. We should preach about our failings and our love three times as many times as we preach against things such as homosexuality. And when something like this comes up, we should have a Tylenol response.
Here is an example of a possible response. “Yes, Dr. Rekers helped found this organization. We are not shocked that he has struggles and failings. We all do and we sometimes come across as hypocrites. We love those who have same sex attractions and so does Jesus. Many people do not know that many of our members volunteer at a hospice that deals with those dying of Aids and we provide and serve meals there once a week”.
Don’t worry about lecturing them on what the Bible says about homosexuality. As the FRC advocates for certain laws, etc. that message gets out loud and clear.
So, can the Christian community do it as well as Tylenol? I think we can, and even better.
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Ken,
You say you “used to” hang with a conservative Christian crowd.Where are you at now? You don’t have to answer. I am just curious.
In the meantime, I would consider myself conservative in much of my theology and so are most of my friends. They are some of the most “grace” full folks you could meet. Sometimes conservative and grace can meet in the same spot!
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Hi Doug
Thank you for correcting me. How can they throw someone out who doesn’t go there anymore???? Crazy stuff, Doug!!
I should have all of the archives transferred over by the end of the weekend. I will point folks to your story on this blog that I still think of as “The Devil Went Down to Georgia.”
Doug, if you ever put your blog back up, we will highlight it here.
I did not know Jarrod went to Liberty!!! As usual, you are three steps ahead of us all.
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> If you want to see my website for all to read and to see how the Baptist work…Let me know.
**raises hand**
Okay, just letting you know. I a link to it on the NBBCOF and had some catching up to do on my reading when you deleted your blog, so if it’s still available somewhere I’d like to have the link. Thanks.
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Dee,
You are way too kind (assuming you’re describing me!) Just kidding…
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You know it!!!
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Dee,
Thanks for all your hard work transferring the archives to our current web site. Personally, I’m really looking forward to revisiting the Bellevue series I wrote and listening to all those Elvis tunes…
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They are still out there and still available,you just got to ask now to see them
email me at :
doug@dougpittman.com
I may repost for all to see, if there is a need.
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I posted the above…sorry I am not anonymous when it come to telling truths…
Doug
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Yeah,
As for Liberty, King Jarrod, as some (mostly daddy and his Warner Robins buddy bunch) thought of him back then, was following daddies footsteps except daddy didn’t go to college to play FootBall but only a couple of months at Ga Tech….But the Christian Index said he graduated from 3 institutions with degrees until I exposed it as another lie and coverup….
I am going to repost the websites (both of them) soon.
Just stay with me ….as there is a plan in place………just stay tuned as some very very interesting issues are about to come about and hit the air / video media soon. 🙂
Following Christ, Not Man
Doug Pittman
doug@dougpittman.com
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> My allusion to guilt by association is my view that by mentioning an organization that he was once associated with,does nothing to Rikers reputation but does by implication taint FRC.
Does anyone think this is only a recent “moral failure”?
> Here is an example of a possible response. “Yes, Dr. Rekers helped found this organization. We are not shocked that he has struggles and failings. We all do and we sometimes come across as hypocrites. We love those who have same sex attractions and so does Jesus.
Hell would freeze over first!
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Maybe “Christian conservative” isn’t exactly the right term for the church I was going to. I think “holier than thou” is probably more accurate.
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I think your suggestion for what the “christian community” should say is excellent but I have no idea what the “christian community” is –all christians everywhere? The Baptist Church? Liberty University? And how could it all be herded into saying the same thing like a corporation would? Even the Catholic church, infallable pope and all, can’t seem to pull that off.
It seems to me that Christianity really only operates on the individual level in the end and believers should see themselves as representatives of Christ, not of a church or a “christian community” (excuse the quotes). Personally I’ve never thought of Liberty University or James Dobson as representing Christ or his teachings anyway.
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Ken,
There are many of those kinds of churches out there…
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“TWW has a suggestion to all Christian organizations. We should preach about our failings and our love three times as many times as we preach against things such as homosexuality. And when something like this comes up, we should have a Tylenol response. ”
THANK YOU!
This has scriptural precedent. 1 Corin 5. Paul makes it clear we are not to judge the OUTSIDE world. But we are to judge “inside” the Body. But usually the opposite is done. And taht is why the Rekers and Caners exist “inside” for so very long. Both were involved in focusing on and dealing with the “outside”. Not as witnessing to unbelievers but in teaching and preaching to believers!
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And ice skating would be banned. After all, it is hell and there is no fun allowed.
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Ken
Agreed. The Christian community is not monolithic. However, the Bible states that Christians should be known for their love. Surely all groups could think of loving ways to respond. If not, why not? Shouldn’t they be inspired by the Holy Spirit? And maybe, if enough Christians speak up, we can get better at this stuff.
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You are right Lydia. We spend so much time preaching at the “outside” that we don’t do the work of changing the inside. That is why the world can’t hear us.
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Doug
We will always stay with you. Looking forward to the “plans.”
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Amen, I’m all for the speaking up!
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Dee,
Is it any wonder why the “World” is confused and can not hear.
Today’s Church is no different than the World now.
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And another thing on Jarrod Everson, he Graduated from Liberty and is using……..get this – a Degree in Exercise to Minister at Deenwood Baptist Church and was not even ordained until recently. He was never ordained as a Minister until he was leaving his brothers church in Starke Fl.
The Church thought he had been Ordained prior to going to Madison Street Baptist Church……guess the dad and bother forgot that one too…
Doug
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I agree with this 100% as well.
This is why it seems to me such a waste of time to “stand against the radical homosexual agenda”. Personally I see it as no threat at all.
Instead I see the hypocrisy of these so-called Christians as a huge threat to the reputation of Christ and of all who sincerely believe in him and strive to follow His example.
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Tell me about it!!