Geminid meteors over Chile-NASA
“I’m not upset that you lied to me, I’m upset that from now on I can’t believe you.” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
Collin Hansen is quite concerned about the lies on the internet.
The Gospel Coalition has a dismal history in response to rampant sex abuse allegations and convictions in its member churches. Yet Collin Hansen pens an article in which he discusses his concern that the internet has become a place of lies. He appears to think that this is a crisis for Christians who he claims apparently want to stand for truth. He doesn’t appear to acknowledge that lying and fudging of the facts has become a way of life for some in his own tribal publication.
The internet has surfaced an epistemic crisis for Christians who profess to stand for truth. As lying becomes more effective, it becomes more popular. And as it becomes more popular, it becomes more difficult to separate fact from fiction, especially for international readers not familiar with American dynamics.
This year’s list of top theology stories shows how difficult it can be to separate rumors and lies from facts. There’s almost always more than meets the eye. Rarely does a theology story lend itself to clear-cut interpretation. The debate is often what makes the story noteworthy, what makes it rank on this year-end list.
Who is Collin Hansen?
Collin Hansen serves as editorial director for The Gospel Coalition. He is the author of several books, including Young, Restless, Reformed: A Journalist’s Journey With the New Calvinists and A God-Sized Vision: Revival Stories That Stretch and Stir (with John Woodbridge). He earned an MDiv at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School and an undergraduate degree in journalism and history from Northwestern University.
Does The Gospel Coalition struggle with made up stories on their website?
I know of one that is still posted.
The Gospel Colaition has become the mouthpiece for their own tribe. Hansen claims to be uber concerned about the truth and separating fact from fiction. He says that his choice of 10 stories stems from his adherence to The Gospel Coalition’s confessional statement which can be found here.
(this list is) written from the vantage point of an American who subscribes to The Gospel Coalition’s confessional statement—to discern the most important theology stories of 2019. And remember, healthy debate serves the cause of truth. We’re not omniscient. We’re not omnipresent. But in humility we’re guided by the Holy Spirit to work out our salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12). A bit more healthy fear of God might help us pause before we pass along the latest lie about another Christian.
Yes this is an organization that has perpetrated the following lie about the dismissal of the lawsuit by a number of SGM victims. The lawsuit was dismissed only due to the state of limitations.Look at what these men say.
So the entire legal strategy was dependent on a theory of conspiracy that was more hearsay than anything like reasonable demonstration of culpability. As to the specific matter of C. J. participating in some massive cover-up, the legal evidence was so paltry (more like non-existent) that the judge did not think a trial was even warranted.
The Gospel Coaliation continues to support this lie by keeping the following letter posted on their website. Why We Have Been Silent about the SGM Lawsuit written by Don Carson, Justin Taylor and Kevin DeYoung and proudly posted at TGC for the last 6 years.
Yet members of this self proclaimed, truth-telling, gospel machine have called those who supported the victims derogatory names such as pathological liars, discernment bloggers, slanderers, gossipers, etc. The fact that Collin Hansen, the editorial director, would allow this letter to stand on their website merely points to the old saw “We’ve met the enemy and it is us.”
Do Hansen’s top 10 theology stories this year stretch the truth?
Yes. My Top 10 Theology Stories of 2019.
When the whole sex abuse dustup in the SBC was really about gender role issues.
Coming in at #5 was a real surprise. The day of reckoning for the SBC only made #5. Even more amazingly, did you know that it wasn’t about those 700+ molested kids and the 325 Baptist molesters? Was it about the women who were victims of domestic abuse? Nope, it was all about them uppity women in the SBC who might preach in a pulpit and how his upset a bunch of men. Forget about the kids, this is a real problem…
5. Sex abuse in SBC sparks broader debate over gender roles.
The “day of reckoning” came this year to the largest Protestant denomination in the United States. Credit the SBC leaders who assumed responsibility instead of fighting journalists in semantic games over the size and scope of the problem. Meanwhile, amid the broader reckoning over abuse of women by church leaders, many SBC leaders sparred over women preaching. The SBC was probably overdue for debating its complementarian consensus and basis for cooperation across differences of belief and practice in some 47,000 churches.
Do you understand what is being said here? Yup… some yucky things happened out there but the real problem and concern is all about women preaching…
I am deeply concerned by Hansen’s presentation. He quickly skips over the most despicable report on child sex abuse in the SBC that has ever been documented and says it was really all about gender roles. I am deeply concerned that this is a way to deep six the abuse story.
It gets worse.
Kanye West is the real theology story of the year!
This choice was rather unbelievable to me. With many children who have been victims of abuse in the SBC, Hansen falls out on the importance of knowing whether Kanye is playing for the correct team.
1. Kanye walks the aisle.
The first rumor I saw defied reason. Kanye West has enrolled at The Master’s Seminary? Not quite. But the whispers grew louder until Kanye himself finally confirmed that he had been born again. Given our tribalism, though, it’s not enough that Kanye converted. We want to know if he converted to the right team. Why’s he hanging out with Joel Osteen? Will he be woke enough? Does he believe in limited atonement? Thank God he spared you from working out your theology in the world’s brightest spotlight.in
I guess Kanye is more fun to consider than to wonder about the fact that a bunch of SBC pastors abused kids. Can you imagine what team they play for?
The Gospel Coalition continues in their silence on CJ Mahaney. Let’s add to that they continue to post a despicable letter known by a lie. TGC is no example of truthfulness in an age of lies. They are just the same old, same old…boring and tedious.
The Gospel (aka Calvinist) Coalition bunch live in a completely different world than real Gospel folks. Too bad that Internet “gossip” has exposed them.
This is unfortunate. To overlook the SBC scandal and all those who suffered abuse. I wonder if he answers to the Bosses, and they suggested to tread lightly on that story? Oh the horror-Kanye West spoke at Joel Osteen’s church. Now that is a true scandal! Whose side is he on? What does that even mean? It is peculiar how out of touch some of these men seem to be.
“I guess Kanye is more fun to consider than to wonder about the fact that a bunch of SBC pastors abused kids.”
Pretty much sums up my view of the Kanye story. Like a lot of hyped ‘stories’ they are designed to distract from real issues. It’s kinda mind blowing to see religious leaders using the same tactics as politicians.
Christianity in America is slowly morphing into a social movement with “God” receiving honorable mention.
I had no idea *this* is why people were so focused on Kayne? Weirdos.
Spoiler Alert: It’s because that’s the only thing they actually care about…keeping women in their place, not women and children and anyone else who have been abused.
I do not read TGC articles even though I might fit their demographic.
Over and over again TGC shows itself to be a combination PR arm and group of political operatives.
The organization claims to be a group of people who are diverse in many way but they unite to be centered around the Gospel.
But then you read their stuff, and much of it appears to be geared toward getting Christians to agree on a host of secondary and tertiary political and cultural issues. There’s very little diversity actually.
I could sit down once a month and predict what they’re going to write about and the tack they are going take. And guess what. It’s not about the Gospel.
The choice of what is number one just shows where their actual priorities lie. The gospel is not their true focus. Celebrity status is. Who cares if some rich and famous guy runs around claiming that he has become a Christian. God is no respecter of persons. Jesus was glad to preach the gospel to the poor. He had little good to say about the rich and never respected and promoted celebrity status the way our carnal church does today.
The gospel is about all people being equally loved and valued by God. It is not about certain individuals whom already obtained worldly fame by doing worldly things being a bigger story then some poor kid who really starts having a personal relationship with God. The celebrity cares too much about worldly things and just wants to tack on a very little Jesus to complete his life. That is not the gospel for the Jesus told the rich young celebrity ruler that he had to give it all up, all the money and the power associated with it to actually follow Him. The same is true today. The rich need to give up their love of money and the celebrities their love of the praises and adoration of men.
Jesus’ Church needs to see that celebrity status is a stumbling block and a barrier to following Jesus Christ. It has always been that way and it always will.
Verses about no one preaches on today from James 5:
“Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you.”
That TGC considers the most significant theology story of the year to be … the conversion of a well-known entertainment celebrity to my mind speaks volumes about the state of christianity in north america.
The joining of the unveiling to wider public view of the SBC sex-abuse scandal with the simmering disagreements about “gender roles” has to my mind an icky feel to it.
Obviously Kanye should not have been #1, but can I just say that I’m thrilled about what’s happening in his life? I think God is removing lampstands right now (as it says in Revelation), and He’s giving leadership of the church over to others. What if Kanye starts a big movement? Wouldn’t that be awesome?
My daughter just had a baby, and in the car to his doctor’s appointment they were playing the new Kanye album, and it settled the baby. She said, “If you had told me 6 months ago that I’d be playing a Kanye album for my baby, I never would have believed you.”
Sure, Kanye’s theology may not be perfect (I actually have no idea), but I’m still excited. God is doing so much moving and shaking right now, and the powers that once held the church are falling, and the church’s strength is being transferred to others–to the Middle East and Africa, where the church is growing exponentially; to women; to reformed pop stars.
I’m just saying, I don’t think we should make fun of Kanye. No, he’s not the #1 story. But I think he’s part of the SAME broader story–that the powers that be are losing their grip on the “church”, and that God is giving it over to others who will pursue justice and mercy.
(Oh, and totally agree with you, Dee, about the reprehensible way he made the sex abuse scandal about women somehow being uppity).
A “well-known entertainment celebrity” also topped Hansen’s list in 2018 … Bill Hybels (a prominent stage performer in the Christian Industrial Complex who entertains no more).
Everything The “Gospel” Coalition says and does is centered around Calvinism, particularly the belief and practice of “New” Calvinism. The organization is, in fact, The Calvinism Coalition (to them, Calvinism = Gospel; they see it no other way). Of course, 90+% of Christendom worldwide would not agree with them; they have largely rejected the tenets of reformed theology for the last 500 years.
And Jesus hardly any recognition at all.
I’d have less of an issue if they just stuck to Calvinism.
But they don’t even do that.
In a lot of ways, theopolitics in the American church are more deadly than the schemes of elected politicians … consider the young army of new reformers taking over pulpits by stealth and deception (they are essentially lying to God under oath).
Collin Hansen should read over the first half of James 2. You know, about showing favoritism.
Sorry Steve, I accidentally hit the #1 spot. You really deserve the honor, so I humbly relinquish it to you.
Yeah, I think his bud Ed Stetzer and the VW/MacDonald scandal should have made the list.
“5. Sex abuse in SBC sparks broader debate over gender roles.”
Would an emerging physical assault issue in churches spark debate about some other issue, or would it relate directly to the activity at hand? When some church attacks were making headlines, the focus was on security. Yet when “sex abuse in SBC” gets a spotlight, what a shock that the focus switched off of that for some to preferred debate points. That this convenient focus shift is contemplated is massively telling.
Also, IIRC, wasn’t it the “Founders” recording victims and victims advocates and inserting qs related to things complementarian that was the main bit that resulted in “debate”? Are they really acting like that whole thing was an organic sparking of idea exchange rather than one grouping having an agenda — which in part was questioning if the victims and advocates had who appeared literally kicked to the curb by the abuse narrative shapers inside the SBC convention had ulterior motives besides confronting abuse matters and institutional inertia and coverups?
And now, narrative shaping appears to extend to this ridiculous notion of criminal and moral transgressions of high order — and culpability of “Christian leaders” including legally and financially — being merely a launching pad to intellectual chit-chat bout gender roles. It’s like let’s shift away from things that threaten the leadership order in ways we can’t control — law enforcement, people who stop financing said leadership — and shift to an arena where we can play the prooftexting game like so many have to exert selective authority and wrest their version of submission and minimum giving standards to the “local church” ‘cuz Biblical. The Pharisees and their neglect of the weighty matters spring to mind.
“Credit the SBC leaders who assumed responsibility instead of fighting journalists in semantic games over the size and scope of the problem.”
Strawman; many did nothing for years rather than fighting journalists, which is a matter of tactics, not the assumption of responsibility. And keeping those who asked for space literally and figuratively at the table out of the convention and out of the Caring Well formulation and loss is also not assuming reponsibility, especially as the process also shows signs of issues as discussed in recent postings.
The easiest thing for big orgs to do is “something”. Exxon Mobil, BP, the Vatican, Penn State, etc. all did “something” related to big issues that came up. It’s something else for what is done to be meaningful and address the issue in any significant way. To give credit to the SBC for writing up protocols and forming committees and levels of bureaucracy as “assuming responsibility” doesn’t appear to necessarily fit what was done, especially when bizarrely combined with the leap to the broader debate bout gender roles.
I find it interesting that these guys refer to church happenings as “theology” stories … it’s all about theology in their corner of Christendom, where jots and tittles of Scripture are tortured to death. I was raised to believe that the Great Commission was the most important thing for followers of Christ to focus on, rather than the teachings and traditions of men.
Make no mistake about it, “putting women in their place” remains the most important thing in the heart of hearts of the New Calvinists. IMO, the current scurry by the new reformers to look more female-friendly is a smoke screen … and I have yet to see a display of sackcloth and ashes in TGC ranks over the extent of the abuse of women and children in the American church.
“The SBC was probably overdue for debating its complementarian consensus and basis for cooperation across differences of belief and practice in some 47,000 churches.”
Actually, what was overdue was a reaction of horror from those who truly didn’t know the size and scope of the abuse problem and the coverup. What was overdue was getting law enforcement involved. What was overdue was encouraging people to get on the record and to do so in ways with supports in place.
What was overdue was to recognize that there would be closed ranks in certain quarters, and for people to still be afforded and prioritized platforms (say with a trusted experienced entity such as those suggested here) to share their experiences. What was overdue was a frank discussion about leaders in the SBC orbit and the timeline of their support for those with unaddressed or insufficently abuse issues under their authority. Funny how that’s not quite the priority that giving credit for forming a committee etc. and talking bout gender roles appears to be.
I took the time to read the man’s article. First off, it is clearly made HIS top 10, not necessarily THE top ten. I did not get the same vibe re gender and sex abuse. It sounded more to me like he thinks sex abuse should be the issue rather than it turning into a dust up on women preaching, and that re evaluating comp theology is overdue.
And he made valid points re Kanye: instead of celebrating with the angels we start instantly nit picking a baby believer’s theology.
All in all, I felt his article deserved kudos, not bashing. I did not read it for the purpose of finding what was wrong with it, but just for seeing what was actually said.
Your mileage may vary. But are we reaching a point where we just “disagree” as a default position?
Ah, but repentance of the dare I say Biblical kind — we have sinned against You, I will repay fourfold — comes with financial and legal risk! Sure, so many want the $$$ and others peeks that come with wielding authority, but when something bad happens over which they have a level of responsibility– especially something they didn’t do personally, how many of them are willing to then take the hit that comes with the position?
In so many of those cases, we see time and again denial, active/passive intimidation of the accuser — too often invoking the fate of their soul as prooftexted by those in ‘authority’, silence/coverup etc. If there’s too much smoke, there’s often the ‘oopsie/mistakes were made/if anyone was offended/long time ago/we’re forming a committee’ response rather than actual, tangible repentance that leaves the perp and/or the responsible parties vulnerable in any way — let alone like the victims were.
Thus, 9 or however many marks are always at the ready to be applied to the winsomely sheared sheep while the well-compensated shepherds are all about the Biblical in that scenario. However, so many autocrats seem to get more pragmatic and all about their legal and financial protection rather than Biblical when it comes to matters requiring repentance, especially publicly. Funny, that.
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Too many church leaders don’t want to risk position, power, and paycheck by doing the right thing. Assigning such men the title of “pastor” is an abomination to God.
Scandal? Weren’t we told that was a misunderstanding/mistakes were made/oopsie? Had I been an executive director of a major Christian publishing and education concern, had my own radio show and blog on a major Christian publication site, why wouldn’t I have seen gifts of vehicles by someone involved in marketing his books, education materials, and multimedia presentations as a non-issue but what pals do?
Dispensations of responsibility too often are handed out like drivers licenses as a rite of passage and are lightly esteemed. So much of what we see in the abuse and autocratic overreaches appears to have roots there. Meanwhile, so many of those teaching on the Bible fail to see how many epic fails came from people wielding authority but not attending to what God wanted of them.
There have been a lot oopsies committed in New Calvinist ranks … Driscoll, MacDonald, Tullian, etc. … Piper, himself, is an oopsie.
“Never be in a hurry to ordain a man, or you may be making yourself responsible for his sins” (1 Timothy 5:22). Certain corners of the American church obviously don’t take this seriously.
It’s telling how many of the ‘obey me and and pay up cuz Biblical’ crowd don’t get so Biblical when it comes to that, to rendering to Caesar and ceding criminal matters etc. to secular authorities, or to qualifiyng leadership per the 1 Timothy 3/ Titus 1 standards. And that doesn’t even get into the NT financial giving standards that are so regularly distorted by some claiming to be Biblical.
About 5 years ago when I was poking around the literature on early-ish Church History, I encountered a papal decree (the name “Gelasius” sticks in my mind; maybe it was one of his) regarding mandatory uses of local congregational revenues.
IIRC, the breakdown was
50% maintenance of the physical structure of the local meeting place
25% salaries of the various classes of ordained servants of the local congregation
25% relief of the sufferings of the poor.
The early church was much more interested in this than is the present-day church (in my experience — which perhaps is impoverished in its own way).
Bruce Longenecker’s “Remember the Poor” may be relevant.
This. I think that when celebrities have a conversion experience, they suffer from the remarks and expectations of other Christians far more than any opprobrium they might receive from secular sources. It’s hard enough to truly follow Jesus in humility without being idolized by a section of the public, and dogged by paparazzi.
The other thing is, Kim and the children were baptized in the rite of a very ancient expression of Christianity, one that large numbers of born-agains would view as not Christian at all. Hansen didn’t even mention that.
God help Kanye & family.
Kanye West is a CELEBRITY.
You don’t need to go any farther than that.
“RULERS OF TOMORROW! MASTER RACE!”
— Ralph Bakshi, Wizards (spoken by the neo-Nazi bad guy wizard)
“There is no Christ. There is only CALVIN.”
I share your concern for the family. I don’t know what they believe, and would never pretend to know the state of anyone’s soul. However, for years, Kanye has often shown signs of mental illness. If he is vulnerable in addition to being a celebrity and a “big catch” for the church, he could be used by others. This could harm him and his family.
Fae the post:
I’m sure many of us are.
The trouble is, we’re generally predisposed to be more concerned about some lies than about others. For instance: we’re a couple of days short of a General Election here in Blighty. I’m not going to reveal any specific voting intentions here; but I do have political views *. There’s no doubting the fact that I get angrier reading about lies told by a political group whom I broadly agree with, than I do reading about lies told by one whom I’m broadly against.
I’m not supposing I’m either better or worse than Mr Hansen here, and I haven’t at this point read which lies (if any) he’s specifically concerned about. But as a general point, you could tell quite a lot about either him or me (or emdy else, for that matter) by finding out.
* Long-term Wartburgers will be aware of my high regard for The Official Monster Raving Loony Party. I believe they are still proposing to legalise broccoli.
…aaaaand I got that completely the wrong way around.
At least the Official Monster Raving Loony Party doesn’t take themselves seriously.
Far too many approach Party politics with all the unsmiling intensity of a Fundamentalist religion.
I hate to tell Collin Hansen but evangelicals have become known in the greater culture as people who are perfectly comfortable with lies. Look at the comments on any major news story that touches on evangelicals. Turns out the people who used to rail against situation ethics are perfectly comfortable with using them when it suits their purpose.
Kanye West is a very troubled and unpredictable man. Anyone who would make him a major story is lacking in wisdom. Or is an opportunist. Or both.
At what time do you realize the ship is sunk and all you can do is leave it behind.
i.e. His head’s not wrapped all that tight. You find that a lot in performers, artists, and generally creative types.
Thank you for clarifying! I was starting to worry about my own ethics.
Especially in the intersection between Evangelicals and Politics.
Too much “We Won!” and throwing their weight around HARD (like any extreme activist type).
Utter RIGHTeousness plus Absolute POWER (or even the hope of it) is a VERY bad combination.
God is doing exactly what he has always done. He reveals himself to those who seek him. Being a geezer, I’ve seen so many of these stories about all the amazing things God is doing in the world come and go. Every generation wants to think God is doing something special and different in their time, that the status quo is about to change. Meanwhile, the still small voice still speaks to those who listen.
I don’t know if you did. Here in the states, I find myself getting more angry when the group that always eschewed lies starts using them when it’s to their benefit, when grasping and consolidating political power turns out to be of higher importance than being a light to the world of how God calls us to live.
I definitely did (in terms of what I meant to say). But I know what you mean…
He has acknowledged that he is bipolar, so there are often issues with medications with that disorder
It has created a test of love, joy, peace, kindness, self-control etc for those who stand for truth.
It’s created a bonanza for those who profess to stand for truth.
Thanks. To be clear, the whole family is free to believe and do as they wish. I just want all of them to have agency.
It would be a shame, for example, if a (hypothetical) person gave up crucial medication after finding Jesus; or if a person ended up isolated, pretending all was well, just because the church show must go on.
The conversions I most appreciate are the quiet ones. Saul of Tarsus was struck blind. That has plenty of drama, and he was quite a catch; but he was weak and helpless for quite some time, with no guaranteed outcome.
An update on Founders:
When I was a young man about to embark on the journey called life, my father gave me some pieces of advice. Among them “Son, if you ever find yourself on a bus that is going the wrong way, get off at the first stop.” That tidbit of wisdom has saved me much grief during my 70+ years of doing church in America.
I’m sorry, why are they praising a guy who they say has been a Christian for less than a year? Why are they putting this guy on a pedestal? Why? Aren’t there people who are working in secret to spread the Gospel or help the poor that they could honor? Is it because the “pastor” of Kanye West’s “church popup” is a graduate of The Master’s Seminary? That’s correct, Adam Tyson, one of John MacArthur’s products, is preaching for Kanye. Do they think that Kanye is going to open the way for their Neo-Calvinist crazy to make even more inroads?
Speaking of crazy, I wonder if this writer or any of the Gospel Coalition types have considered that Kanye’s “church” and suchlike could be an elaborate tax dodge. I’ve been saying this for months, but here’s a guy at Forbes saying it in tax law terms.
If you want to see a first-class example of Christians being seduced by wealth and power, then this article from TGC is great for that. I’m disgusted by the whole thing, actually.
Oh, and probably because it’s an awful thing, Collin Hansen skipped over a remarkable story out of Iran where the church is growing by leaps and bound in the absence of buildings and central leadership, with the churches being led by women.
Oh, that’s why. TGC can’t acknowledge that women are spreading the Gospel and making disciples, their “gospel” insists on male leadership.
‘deplatformed’ Sproul Jr. speaks out against discernment bloggers, = ‘the Devil’s Advocates’
“discerners” “hate me” but “My heavenly Father, who loves me, sees me through Jesus”
Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,
I sure hope that that is true about Iran. But after Gospel for Asia I have seen the reality of how much B.S. gets promoted by narcissistic scammers looking for money from the West. It is quite likely that the people promoting this news are not telling the truth. The only way to know is to get deep inside the org. behind the men telling the stories. At this point, I would hardly believe anything anyone is telling me about some third world country unless there is no fundraising going on. Even then, it could be someone trying to get attention by spreading outrageous stories. You used to be a lawyer so you know what I am talking about. You just cannot trust what strangers tell you, especially when you really want to believe what they said. We really need discernment in these days straight from the Holy Spirit. This blog exists because there is so little of it and these stories of “church growth” in far away places we cannot see come through the same channels as the stories of those caught up in the scandals.
Five years from now they will all be “Kayne who?”
Agreed. Who in their right mind (no pun intended) takes a brand new believer and sets them up in a very public, very high risk leadership role in the “church?” Especially one with a known mood disorder like bi-polar? THAT should be the “theological” question being asked.
It was also a little concerning that the persecuted church in Hong Kong took a backseat to an accidental fire in a historic building. And that we were encouraged to pursue justice for a victim of murder/manslaughter but not for victims of sex abuse.
My top theology story of 2019, at least concerning the U.S., would be the sex abuse scandal in the SBC. Number three would be the continued fallout from a similar scandal in the Roman Catholic Church, including former Archbishop of Washington Theodore McCarrick being defrocked. Number two would be Joshua Harris publicly renouncing the Christian faith.
Max, I believe the two are connected. It is only by keeping women in their place that the New Calvinists can hope to slam the lid back on the Pandora’s box of abuse. It is women who are leading the charge, and they well know it. If Dee and Christa and the many others who are advocating for victims of abuse would just ‘submit to their male authorities’ and stop ‘gossiping’, no one would know the half of what has gone on behind closed doors.
You made some excellent points here. Just why would anyone turn a scandal of rampant sexual abuse into a debate about gender roles? Talk about disconnect and distraction!
I’ve got news for the good ol’ boys club: no one – but the terminally brainwashed – really cares anymore what you think about gender roles. That boat has sailed, and people are wising up. Seeing how cruelly and unforgivably you have twisted scripture on divorce (Yes, I’m talking to you Wayne Grudem!), people will begin to wonder what else you have gotten wrong all these years.
You will not be able to lock up yer wimminfolk for much longer. Keep up the good work, ladies; as with slavery, the SBC and the Calvinists will soon be forced to repent of their evil, self-serving abuses against women for so many decades.
Really? I kind of prefer the way you actually put it. We all expect ‘the other side*’ to lie. What should really wake us up is when ‘our side’ lies.
*I no longer trust any ‘side’.
The problem is, if you are successfully convinced that this is the only bus (to heaven) then you will overlook almost anything in your desire to arrive at the desired destination. That is the hook the institutional church has always used. Fear is a great controller.
Like most celebrity ‘churches’. See James MacDonald’s massive scam called ‘Harvest’ for more details.
Wow, I thought Sproul Jr. had slunk into oblivion, where he belongs. These guys just can’t be kept down, no matter how severe their sin. I mean, what are they going to do, get a real job?
“To overlook the SBC scandal and all those who suffered abuse. I wonder if he answers to the Bosses, and they suggested to tread lightly on that story?”
ha… sounds like the Royal Family.
and all such institutions with too much to lose. the mission becomes protecting their power and money, which can’t be done without selling big parts of their soul.
I was quite confused by the public talk partly because every black person i know in real life is highly religious, so I suppose I just assumed Kayne already was. But I guess he did an album which is fine. I don’t know, the whole thing has been odd.
He’s a CELEBRITY, that’s why!
Ever noticed that Christians go puppy-piddle giddy every time a Rich and/or Famous CELEBRITY joins their ranks? (“SEE? SEE? SEE?”)
Beware of any “Christian” organization which claims to be the sole possessor of truth. There are various expressions of Christianity on planet earth – do any really have a corner on the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? The New Calvinist movement essentially claims that they do … that they have come into the world for such a time as this to restore the “gospel” that the rest of Christendom has lost. For me and my house, we plan to arrive at the desired destination without buying a ticket on their bus.
The New Calvinist movement will come to a screeching halt if female believers ensnared by its bondage would rise up en masse, declare “Enough is enough!”, and start dragging their sorry husbands and boyfriends out of the mess.
I hope to live long enough to hear “Mohler who?”
Yes, indeed! An amazing story of faith and courage! God be with those sisters in Christ.
Yes, an odd little family where only men can ascend to the throne. Their rule depends on the continued subordination of women, ignoring their cries for justice and equality in the Body of Christ.
Thanks very much for pointing that out, as I had not been paying attention to the idea of a church of Kanye. Yes, that could be an appealing tax dodge, although I imagine he already has some shrewd accountants.
It’s a guy thing for them (TGC)
As explained by longtime Executive Director of The Gospel Coalition Ben Peays:
“these guys”…”these guys”…”these guys”…
In my college Christian fellowship, a Jewish student was received with similar accolades. Of course he was free to make his own religious decisions, but I still wonder how much he was influenced by all the squealing and fawning. The memory still makes me cringe.
Jared Wilson: “BenPeays is really, really, really, really, really, ridiculously good looking.”
Timmy Brister: “Hanging w/ my man Ben Peays at the original whole foods market. Hope he loves me and has a wonderful plan for my life”
Matt Chandler says “I preach to men.” He calls female believers in his church “Our girls.”
Or just scan through 9Mark Dever’s Instagram pics:
Dozens of tweets chronicling the construction of a church frathouse/monastery for all his interns:
TGC really stands for “The Guys Coalition” because like Calvin and Hobbes, GROSS (Get Rid Of Slimy girlS) is a thing.
That group will never, ever, ever acknowledge their shortcomings. There is too much investment in time, money, ego, power to do that. It needs to explode in their collective faces. Like the old joke goes, they don’t have an ego, because ego is a fault and they have no faults.
I’ve long advocated that the 501-c3 regulations be overhauled so that religious non-profits must abide by the same rules of financial transparency that secular non-profits must adhere to.
It’s a fair compromise that does not even involve outright taxation of religion, just an up-front accounting of where all that moolah goes.
Then, if people still want to indenture themselves to evangelical grifters, have at it, it’s a free country.
Me too, they (neo-calvinist takeover) have their very own Agamemnon in Mohler.
That is an excellent idea! If only there were not mobs and law firms (but I repeat myself) standing by to claim religious persecution.
A bit of an aside, from these postings regarding TGC, I decided to have a look around its website. There is a church directory and beside the name of each church is the word “REPORT” that takes you to a page where you list your name, address, email address, and “Reason for Reporting.”
Is there so little trust in the churches, the processes, and the theology that you have to provide a “report button”? Wonder what it takes to get a church reported?
About the time I think I’ve seen it all . . .
This is off-topic- but Dee, are you following this story? Julie Anne from Spiritual Sounding Board posted it on Facebook. It’s a horrific story of children being abused by their upstanding seemingly God-fearing father, grandfather, and grandfather’s friends.
I can think of a few reasons: letting a woman preach (that’s a biggie), questioning the teachings of one of the New Calvinist elites (Piper, Mohler, etc.), members who do not carry the ESV Bible, and assorted other nonsense.
On a related note, I talked to a couple I hadn’t seen in a while at an event earlier this week. They noted that they were recently excommunicated (he used the phrase “kicked out”) from an SBC church pastored by a young reformer (a church they had been members of for 20 years). The reason: they attended Sunday School there, but drove across town to another Baptist church to be with friends during the worship service there. These new reformers can be downright mean!
Muff, you got me on “Agamemnon” … had to look that one up! Things didn’t turn out well for him.
Yep . . . the power of having power. I received Christmas greetings from a couple that I pastored in the 90’s. They related that they were brought before the pastor and elders of the church they currently attend because they expressed concern about the spirit of the church in a prayer group. Of course they were asked to explain their issues, “repent”, and that they must meet monthly with the pastor for “spiritual guidance.”
The gentleman of the couple, a retired United States Army colonel stood up and walked his wife out of the room and out of the church, never to return.
That kind of crap “his spiritual superior” tried to pull does NOT go down well with a retired professional soldier.
Alt 1) Ben Peays is Timmy’s REAL Personal LORD and Savior.
Alt 2) Timmy, Are You Queer? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=457N1m4oUZw
Alt 3) Both.
So did the Young Communist League, the Hitlerjugend, Chairman Mao’s Red Guard, and the Taliban.
Which (according to Coffee With Jesus, Volume 1) “would quickly become a Cult of Kayne”.
Sounds like your friends were excommunicated from a 9 Marx church.
Some of which were PASTORS and MINISTERS.
It’s John Smyth (AKA “Jack the Whipper”) all over again.
Except Smyth didn’t hand one of his victims a machete and give him a direct order to use it on another victim. That’s John Wayne Gacy/Jeffrey Dahlmer territory.
Bingo! I hadn’t thought of that, but you’re right; I just found them listed in the 9Marx church directory.
Sounds like they were right to do so. Church leaders of such churches are of another spirit … and it ain’t Holy.
This is a very strange and very disquieting story.
My first impression is that it’s strangely written- almost like a story, like a novel unfolding. It doesn’t speak in clear language like, “in [such and such year] [this person] did [this] to [this person].” It suggests things, it implies them. But I’ve never read a victim’s story that was written this way, it’s unusual. Very perplexing.
Sheila Wray Gregoire,
I was not making fun of Kanye-on the contrary, I think it is a great story that he took a few years to discover the Christian faith. He sounds like he has had a true conversion. As a cautionary tale, we can all remember the conversion story of Bob Dylan. The dismay comes when this is the top story for TGC and that the writer redirects the focus of clergy sexual abuse to the idea that women in ministry was the focus. God help us as a church. As an aside-I have met and talked with Don Carson at a retreat and I appreciate his humbleness and he is a first-rate scholar. I do believe the organization he cofounded has some serious issues.
You’re right, they’d howl “persecution” from the rafters, and in some locales, lawmakers who voted for the change wouldn’t see dog-catcher in the next election cycle.
Great pic up-top of the Chilean observatories!
It’s weird to see Orion upside down looking North toward the equator.
I have a master’s degree from Northwestern’s journalism school. Collin Hansen and Sarah Zylstra, another NU j-school grad who writes for TGC, are an embarrassment.
Funny, I had the same impression, reading this story last night. It made me wonder if it was genuine, or simply a ‘useful’ story. It is very traumatizing, even just to read, and I had great difficult sleeping last night.
In most such cases, those telling the story are much more cautious about not triggering or traumatizing all who read their words. Struck me as very odd.
There are journalists and then there are propagandists. “Christian” organizations should never employ the latter, but unfortunately do to help accomplish their agendas which are not of God. Their movements eventually fail, of course:
“If this teaching or movement is merely human it will collapse of its own accord” (Acts 5:34-39).
I agree. I feel really uneasy. I mean, isn’t the one thing we are supposed to take away from watchblogs is that we believe victims? But it does seem really strange.
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