*Mr.* Ravi Zacharias Adds Pizzazz to His Bio and the Christian Industrial Complex Imposes the Cone of Silence

“We learned about honesty and integrity – that the truth matters… that you don’t take shortcuts or play by your own set of rules… and success doesn’t count unless you earn it fair and square”. Michelle Obama

Update: We are planning on doing one post a week on the biblical counseling movement until we have exhausted the subject. That means two posts a week o other subjects.

Today (as of 2:00PM) saw the firing of both Matt Lauer and Garrison Keillor for inappropriate behavior.  I mention the time because things are going cray cray out there and I expect other announcements to be forthcoming at any minute. I, for one, am grateful that women and men who have been the subject of unwanted sexual conduct are finally being heard.

Threats against truth seekers are evil and must stop.

Our good friend, Julie Anne Smith, posted about the controversy surrounding Ravi Zacharias. Today she received this threat on Twitter. We write this post because we will not allow these threats to deter us from seeking the truth. Whoever wrote this to JA does not understand the gospel. He/she is just a common thug.

Who is Ravi Zacharias?

In this biography on his website which has just been updated (you will understand why), he has this to say. Whoops, if looks like I can’t say much…Why wouldn’t an honest Christian want his biography distributed unless the biography is dishonest in some way?

Updated 17 May 2017

Please note that this bio may not be distributed or edited without the express written permission of RZIM. Thank you.

I need you to go to this link to read it because it appears that Mr. Zacharias is getting a bit huffy about his biography and for good reason, it would seem.

Problems with Mr. Zacharias’ biography

In 2015, we reported on the following.


Has Evangelist Ravi Zacharias Misrepresented His Academic Credentials?

It seems like Ravi Zacharias is in a bit of a pickle. I apologize that I didn’t have time to consult Tim Bayly to see if a woman is allowed to point out pastors who lie. It appears that MR. Zacharias may have been fudging things his entire ministry. My question is simple. If he lies about this, what else does he lie about?

We are two atheists and a Christian who are concerned that a prominent evangelist, Mr. Ravi Zacharias, has engaged in misconduct that undermines academic integrity and misleads the public.   We issue this press release with two primary goals in mind. First, we wish to draw attention to what we believe are the dishonest practices of Ravi Zacharias.
Their stated concern:

We believe that the problem of professional evangelical Christians exaggerating their academic deserves much more media attention and public discussion than it currently receives.  There is much grumbling even within Christian circles about the practice of honorary degree recipients using the “Dr.” title ‘

They credibly dispute the following claims of Ravi Zacharias:

-He was not a visiting scholar at Cambridge.
-He refers to himself as Dr Zacharias yet has no earned doctoral degree.
-He claims to have lectured at the world’s most prestigious universities.
-He claims to be a scholar yet has published nothing in scholarly journals and does not have peer reviewed research.
Read more from this article here.


Mr Ravi Zacharias 11/2017

It looks like others are beginning to catch up on this story. On 11/13/2017 on the website, Ordinary Times, Stephen Baughman penned The Christian Industrial Complex Shields Its Own. 

Baughman, an atheist, apparently just discovered the article we reported on in 2015. He became concerned about Zacharias when he realized he was dishonest about a prophecy in Daniel.

I vividly recall seeing Dr. Zacharias waving his arms and talking about the Seleucids and the Ptolemaics as he stood before that University of Illinois student audience. “Centuries before to be so specific in prophecy” could only be evidence of “the supernatural” in the Book of Daniel, he thundered.[iii] The argument was compelling in large part because it came from a man whose academic credentials were as good as anybody’s. Would Ravi Zacharias force me to adjust my atheist worldview?

Silly me. I should know by now that, for every 30 seconds it takes a Christian apologist to make a “fulfilled prophecy” claim, it takes a few hours of tedious research to see that it is probably bogus.

…Dr. Zacharias himself had known full well that the dating of Daniel was controversial. He admits as much in his memoirs.

Baughman reached a conclusion that we reached before we started this blog. If someone is dishonest about one thing, they are probably dishonest about other things. He would find fodder for his suspicion when he decided to research Zacharias.

Here are some of the things that he discovered.

He has no earned doctorate, yet, he has, until just recently… called himself Dr. Zacharias.

But Ravi Zacharias has never so much as enrolled in a graduate level academic program, much less completed a doctoral program.

…Ravi has routinely failed to disclose that his doctorates are merely honorary and has resisted calls to make his official bio clearer in this regard.

He was not a visiting scholar at Cambridge.

In 1990 Ravi did a 2-3 month sabbatical at a church ordination academy named Ridley Hall
…it has never been a part of the University.(ed. Cambridge)

…Ravi Zacharias, it turns out, had never been a visiting scholar at their university. In the summer of 2015, I sought comment from his ministry about this troubling finding. They ignored me, but quickly removed the bogus claim from his website bio.

He claimed to have studied *quantum physics* at Cambridge under John Polkinghorne which is not true.

Instead:

1990, the year of Ravi’s sabbatical at Ridley, Polkinghorne (a noted scientist) taught a course on the Science/Theology Dialogue and a course on Buddhism.[xvii]

So it appears that Ravi audited[xviii] a class on the theology/science dialogue with Dr. Polkinghorne

He erroneously claimed to be an official lecturer at Oxford.

Ravi says in his memoirs “I am an official lecturer at Oxford now, teaching there once a year.”[xx]

The University of Oxford, however, told me it has no record of Ravi having ever been on their payroll. They did, however, confirm that in the past he has rented space from them.[xxi]

He claimed to be “chairman of the Department of Evangelism and Contemporary Thought at Alliance Theological Seminary,”[xxvii]

The school did not have departments at the time because it was too small according to Baughman. Here s the truth.

Ravi, it turns out, had been the chair of something called the “Center for Evangelism and Contemporary Thought.”

…an opportunity for students to work with Ravi.”[xxix] The ATS librarian told my investigator it was a “lecture series” that brought in outside evangelists to speak[xxx] and an ATS student of Ravi’s said it was an “informal” undertaking.[xxxi]

Baughman concludes that Zacharias needed adulation more than religion.

This is insightful and applies to more celebrity evangelicals than Zacharias.

Ravi had discovered the thrill of stardom. “Each time I finished students and faculty stood to their feet and applauded.”[xli] Preaching, he tells us, turned him “from being a nothing, a nobody, to being listened to by so many in different walks of life.”[xlii] Thus, we may conjecture, Ravi Zacharias needed adulation more than religion. It just so happens that it was religion, not cricket, and certainly not academics, that delivered the goods.

Baughman also correctly concludes that the Christian Industrial Complex has a code of silence.

TWW readers get this. We have followed the Evangelical Industrial Complex’s refusal to deal with issues like Sovereign Grace Ministries and other groups who have been credibly accused of covering up child sex abuse and sexual abuse of women.

Listen to what this atheist says about us, the church.

Do Ravi’s Christian colleagues care enough about his integrity that his Ministry may “fall” from his lack of it? Not likely. It seems to be business as usual at the Christian Industrial Complex.[xlv] Ravi remains a “licensed evangelist” with the Christian and Missionary Alliance.[xlvi] He retains his “doctorates” on his publisher website author bios, along with his “Cambridge” education. He was also the 2017 commencement speaker at Patrick Henry College (“God’s Harvard”) despite the fact that most of the faculty and student organizations were aware of the allegations circulating against him.[xlvii]

…For its part, RZIM and its Public Relations Manager have ignored over a dozen requests for comment from me over the past two years, as well as several requests to interview Mr. Zacharias at a time and place of his choosing. Perhaps most revealing of all, not a single one of the itinerant evangelists I contacted at RZIM and at his (deceptively named) “Oxford Center for Christian Apologetics”[lii] has replied to my request for comment, much less done their duty under 1 Tim 5:20 to publicly renounce their sinning leader.[liii] Cash cows are indeed sacred cows, even over at God, Inc.

Meanwhile in the trenches of YouTube and the blogosphere, Ravi’s loyal followers assure us that whatever his credentials may be Ravi Zacharias is an intellectual powerhouse and a devoted man of God.

Christian blogger and professor, Dr (earned degree) Warren Throckmorton is looking at Zacharia’s claims.

Folks, it should not matter to anyone who it is who reveals the truth. However, the typical evangelical response to an atheist pointing out the truth is “It is an attack by Satan.” Jesus is the truth and every Christian should demand honesty by all of its leaders. Of course, some will lie and the first response is to cover it up. Let’s see what RZM had to say.

Throckmorton, a professor of psychology at Grove City College, chimed in by writing Was Ravi Zacharias a Visiting Scholar at Cambridge University?

Sadly, the answer appears to be “No.”

As Dr. Begbie told me, Zacharias did that as a part of his sabbatical at Ridley Hall by taking these classes and lectures with people at Cambridge. However, he was never an invited visiting scholar at Cambridge and did his work under the supervision of Dr. Begbie who was at Ridley Hall.

After this was pointed out to Zacharias by Steve Baughman, Zacharias changed his bio to the following verbiage (from his academy bio):

Dr. Zacharias has been a visiting scholar at Ridley Hall, Cambridge (then affiliated with Cambridge University, now more recently allied with Cambridge and affiliated with Durham University) where he studied moralist philosophers and literature of the Romantic era.
This is still a bit of an embellishment. It appears he really wants people to know he spent a few months attending lectures in Cambridge, England. However, there is no meaningful connection between Ridley Hall and the University of Cambridge which is relevant to a bio.

Throckmorton also wrote Fact Checking Claims about Ravi Zacharias’ Credentials: Is Dr. Zacharias in the House?

This bio has not been changed. I am confused by RZIM’s claim that Ravi Zacharias has not given the impression that he has an earned doctorate since this impression was once widespread and continues today on websites owned by the organization. Furthermore, there doesn’t appear to be any effort to correct ongoing impressions with other organizations. For instance, Gateway Church has Zacharias speak every year at the church and he has been consistently referred to as Dr. Zacharias as he is at an upcoming conference in December.

…Using honorary doctorates in this manner is not considered appropriate. I suspect Ravi Zacharias knows this. I have a follow up set of questions in to the ministry and will report any additional information.

Ravi Zacaharis Ministries responds by claiming *slander.* (What a yawner)

According to the Christian Post, in Ravi Zacharias’ Ministry Responds to ‘Egregious Claims’ and ‘Slander’ About His Character, Accomplishments

To which I say “Phooey!” Any Christian ministry which responds to a request for the truth in this way is not responding as Christians should.  Christians should be the first to present the facts, proof, etc. When they respond this way, I will tend to believe they are not telling the truth and are most likely dishonest.

I plan to look more closely at Zacharias claims such as:

He has addressed writers of the peace accord in South Africa and military officers at the Lenin Military Academy and the Center for Geopolitical Strategy in Moscow.

A parting comment from Warren Throckmorton says it all.

Throckmorton, in response to the half-hearted reply from RZM, said this.

I was hoping for a more humble response from Zacharias but we will see where this goes.

Nuff said. We will keep you posted.

For all of you who have forgotten the *Cone of Silence.* Remember, it never works…


Comments

*Mr.* Ravi Zacharias Adds Pizzazz to His Bio and the Christian Industrial Complex Imposes the Cone of Silence — 307 Comments

  1. Rzim website says that Ravi Zacharias was invited by the president of Nigeria to the first annual prayer breakfast for African leaders held in Mozambique. I wonder if Dr Gucci Grace Mugabe was there also. Zimbabwe University students have been protesting recently to demand her Doctorate degree be revoked because it makes it look like just any old body can get one!

  2. I remember the mad scramble that went on in driscol-ville to erase as much as possible! Here’s one that RZIM hasnt gotten to yet in the about department.
    “What is RZIM’s church affiliation or denomination?

    The ministry of RZIM is not affiliated with any particular denomination, and our staff represents a variety of different denominations. Dr. Zacharias is ordained by the Christian and Missionary Alliance Church.”

    Too bad he probably has that title in print in all his books and c/d’s. Not enough erasers!!

  3. Dee, thanks for covering this story. I will have more coming out soon. FYI: the threat was forwarded to me by Steve Baughman. I was the source of forthcoming information. So essentially, it was a threat to Steve and me.

  4. Matt 5:10-11
    Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
    11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.”

    We get to claim persecution if its false accusations- not if their truth!!

  5. Julie Anne,

    We will be praying for your family’s safety in the meantime. Hopefully there won’t be any weirdos showing up at your door! 🙂

  6. ___

    if_then_else?

    hmmm…

    Regardless of the level of sincerity or possible validity of his christian ‘message’ Dr. (un-earned degree) Ravi Zacharias is looking quite un-ethical. Maybe the examination of his many publications for possible plagiarism is in order. Where there is un-accreted academic smoke there is most likely profound proverbial fire. Who knows how deep this aberrant rabbit hole goes?

    He’s an christian faux academic 502(c)3 rolling stone ™ who needs to give up the accolade crack?

    hmmm…

    could be.

    “What fine judgement I see
    in the eyes of our christian leaders
    Oh how beautiful 501(c)3 life could be if it had not been shot to pieces by little faux cleric men sneakin’ big applause…”

    ATB

    Sòpy
    ___
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ravi_Zacharias

    😉

    – –

  7. “At RZIM it has come to our attention that a number of false assertions regarding the character, actions, and accomplishments of Ravi Zacharias”

    Note the lack of specifics on their facebook page. I’m waiting for a specification of false statements and the necessary rebuttals… Waiting…

    I’m curious how some people have no apparent capacity for shame.

  8. sandy c wrote:

    Zimbabwe University

    Which puts my mind on a slightly humorous tangent– You know who has an earned doctorate from the University of South Africa? Doctor Dorothy Patterson– who bills herself as homemaker and first lady of SWBTS.
    And who refers to her husband– not as Paige– but Doctor Patterson.

  9. One last bit of levity before we all return to the serious topic. We at TWW are most honored to have SEVERAL visiting scholars from Cambridge! And they actually attended! Among them are God, Roger Bombast, 2 Arnolds, and some other fellow.

  10. Thersites wrote:

    I’m waiting for a specification of false statements and the necessary rebuttals… Waiting…

    Will never happen. But the fans are happy.

  11. I’m not concerned about Ravi Zacharias although I believe he is acknowledged as a Christian apologist. He has compelling speaking voice, but the few times I listened to him on the radio I didn’t have even the foggiest idea of what he was trying to say.

  12. He also claims to have produced “Joi Bangla” with George Harrison and to be the father of Norah Jones under the pseudonym Shankar.

  13. Dave A A wrote:

    Will never happen. But the fans are happy.

    We’ve seen many examples over the years. It should be amazing but isn’t anymore, how little is required to keep people tethered to a lie.

  14. Dave A A wrote:

    We at TWW are most honored to have SEVERAL visiting scholars from Cambridge! And they actually attended! Among them are God, Roger Bombast, 2 Arnolds, and some other fellow.

    Does meeting someone there for lunch count?

  15. Dave A A wrote:

    Which puts my mind on a slightly humorous tangent– You know who has an earned doctorate from the University of South Africa? Doctor Dorothy Patterson– who bills herself as homemaker and first lady of SWBTS.
    And who refers to her husband– not as Paige– but Doctor Patterson.

    Maybe i should ask someone to get me a degree in something lol

  16. Argh and double argh. Now i have to work on my evangelist spiel some more. When people ask me about my beliefs i will have to say ‘Yes i am a christian, no not like Faux Dr, not like Faux misogynist christian, not like hate everyone, not like lay down your cross and pick up arms to off sinners before they off or injure you, not like white only christian, not like for only $29.99 you too can be saved!!…’ anything i forgot?

  17. Well, it’s obvious to me that the trouble with all of you is that you’re looking for the perfect church.

    What I would say is, if you ever find the perfect church, don’t join it – you’ll spoil it.

    Yours Sincerely,

    Arnold Smartarse

  18. Stephen in his video also made claims of an inappropriate relationship that RZ apparantely bought off. What has come of that claim as surely that would break the cone of silence???

  19. Dave A A wrote:

    Among them are God, Roger Bombast, 2 Arnolds, and some other fellow.

    I studied at Magdalene from 1986-89, though I’m not a Fellow – just a member.

  20. People in the “religion business” totally put off real academics and medical professionals by using the “Dr.” when it is an honorary degree from anywhere, and especially from some podunk “college” or diploma mill. It makes it harder for people with real credentials who are capable of intellectually challenging non-believing academics to consider belief as not contradictory to other academic pursuits.

    And I have an earned Ph.D., was on the faculty at two universities with graduate degree programs, and headed a non-profit institute, all prior to becoming an attorney.

  21. “I apologize that I didn’t have time to consult Tim Bayly to see if a woman is allowed to point out pastors who lie.”

    😀 You rebellious woman, you.

    Or for that matter, evangelists who allegedly have online affairs with married women and threaten suicide when on the brink of exposure.

  22. There’s way too much pizzazz generally in our churches … Christianity Lite is the theme of the day. The Great God of Entertainment is on the church throne in America. Celebrity preachers strut their stuff and the pew loves it so.

  23. How dare we challenge our betters! Didn’t Jesus say that some of us had more authority than others and were to be obeyed? It is simply not our place to question the self-appointed Christian elite.

  24. @ Julie Anne:
    I am sorry that there are such evil men in the world who want to conceal the truth.

    I am hoping you might be getting ready to discuss the claims of an *inappropriate relationship.” I received a disturbing phone call about a year ago but I am not at liberty to discuss it since I was sworn to secrecy. I did tell the person to get an attorney. Hope this helps.

    Hmmm-maybe by writing this I will be added to the *hit list.*

    Hang in there JA.

  25. sandy c wrote:

    Rzim website says that Ravi Zacharias was invited by the president of Nigeria to the first annual prayer breakfast for African leaders held in Mozambique. I wonder if Dr Gucci Grace Mugabe was there also. Zimbabwe University students have been protesting recently to demand her Doctorate degree be revoked because it makes it look like just any old body can get one!

    I think this claim must be looked at as well.

  26. Thersites wrote:

    Note the lack of specifics on their facebook page. I’m waiting for a specification of false statements and the necessary rebuttals… Waiting…

    There response was the ho hum response of a man who has been caught with his pants down…wait-it appears some men want to be caught with their pants down ….

  27. Dave A A wrote:

    You know who has an earned doctorate from the University of South Africa? Doctor Dorothy Patterson– who bills herself as homemaker and first lady of SWBTS.
    And who refers to her husband– not as Paige– but Doctor Patterson

    Ah, Mrs Patterson. Did you know that Mark Kassian has allegedly been working on her doctorate at that same institution for over a decade?…It seems like it takes *Distinguished Professors* a long time to get their education. If this keep up, she will be in a nursing home.

  28. Ken G wrote:

    the few times I listened to him on the radio I didn’t have even the foggiest idea of what he was trying to say.

    The question is “Does he know what he is trying to say?”

  29. Julie Anne wrote:

    FYI: the threat was forwarded to me by Steve Baughman. I was the source of forthcoming information. So essentially, it was a threat to Steve and me.

    Given that Steve is a self-declared atheist, I find threatening him is an odd way to evangelize.

  30. Paul could have bragged about his credentials, but did not:

    “If it were right to have such confidence, I could certainly have it, and if any of these men thinks he has grounds for such confidence I can assure him I have more. I was born a true Jew, I was circumcised on the eighth day, I was a member of the tribe of Benjamin, I was in fact a full-blooded Jew. As far as keeping the Law is concerned I was a Pharisee, and you can judge my enthusiasm for the Jewish faith by my active persecution of the Church. As far as the Law’s righteousness is concerned, I don’t think anyone could have found fault with me. Yet every advantage that I had gained I considered lost for Christ’s sake. Yes, and I look upon everything as loss compared with the overwhelming gain of knowing Jesus Christ my Lord.” (Philippians 3:4-8 Phillips)

    Humble servants of the Lord do not embellish their resume.

  31. Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches:

    But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.

  32. Burwell wrote:

    Julie Anne wrote:
    … Given that Steve is a self-declared atheist, I find threatening him is an odd way to evangelize.

    If he were a Christian, we’d just passive-aggressively let him know that he really isn’t one:

    https://www.yelp.com/biz/the-resolved-church-san-diego-2?hrid=CYAlSYoG7pRjoorUoD0rLQ&utm_campaign=www_review_share_popup&utm_medium=copy_link&utm_source=(direct)

    I attended this church for several weeks with a friend. I ended up deciding to call another church home but recently received an email from Ricky, the new connections director at The Resolved church. When I emailed back simply asking to be taken off the mailing list the response was astounding. This man went ahead and said “so sorry that you’re unconvicted.” Just imagine if I was an unbeliever or a newly converted Christian how that would make me feel. I am so disgusted that that sort of response / insult will be provided by somebody trying to connect people with the church. Disgusting!
    FYI this church pushes female submission with a man making all the decisions including how many babies to have and whether the wife works or not. Good luck with that!

    That same church is the one that abused me enough to find the Wartburg Watch though, so it’s not like no good comes from their shameless abuse of the children of God.

  33. I can not resist….
    While I do not know if “Dr” Ravi Zacharias has done this, but it greatly frustrates me when evangelicals run around and try to claim they have “academic credentials”, and then bash the “secular humanist” institutions/system that they are trying claim is giving them “credibility”…. you can not have it both ways… and the dishonesty of these guys typically comes through, if you look…
    I have been a professor at one of these “secular humanist” institutions for 30 years, and my Ph.D. was earned. We ensure that real Ph.D. are earned. Honorary degrees, to us academics, are worth the paper they are printed on…. they are purely political documents…

  34. I have to say that I find this story troubling personally, having enjoyed his programs in the past. The celebrity culture in the USA brand of Evangelicalism is not helping the case for Christ in the least. I also think the quote from Michelle Obama at the beginning is somewhat hypocritical, given this blog’s stance on political discussions and her own affiliation with a party of questionable moral character and truthfulness. That said tho, I am glad to learn of these “revelations” as I add Mr. Z’s name to my growing list of people to ignore.

  35. I apologize if this has already been covered. My question: Has Ravi’s upcoming speaking schedule been widely posted so that we can contact schools and organizations ahead of time—asking that his invitation be rescinded?

  36. dee wrote:

    Now I shall claim that TWW readers are part of the intellectual elite!

    Can you supply us with with a TWW Doctorate?

  37. @ Burwell:
    Bayly’s message is unclear, also. I do not understand what his point is w/r to people with degrees from the “big name” schools he is refering to …. I know lots of PhD’s from “big name” schools, and “lesser name” schools, and they are NOT “also rans”?.

  38. Today (as of 2:00PM) saw the firing of both Matt Lauer and Garrison Keillor for inappropriate behavior.

    Though Matt Lauer’s seems a LOT more serious than Garrison Keillor’s. Kellor’s seems a one-time incident (and sounds more clueless) while the latest on Lauer was he had a button at his desk that remotely locked the door to his private office so the woman/target couldn’t escape. Plus accusations of actual weinie-wagging. (One woman producer on morning drive-time related a similar incident in her college days and said “Men: Stop showing us your weiner. IT’S NOT SEXY!”

    I mention the time because things are going cray cray out there and I expect other announcements to be forthcoming at any minute. I, for one, am grateful that women and men who have been the subject of unwanted sexual conduct are finally being heard.

    And enough momentum has built up that it’s about time to be on the watch for false accusations starting to join the bandwagon, discrediting the real accusations. When something like this becomes a bandwagon, you’re going to find some jumping aboard to either settle old grudges or get their 15 minutes of fame. Not saying this to discredit what’s already surfaced — Hollywood and politics have always been sexual predator country, goes with wealth and power — but there is a normal ratio of one false accusation for twenty genuine ones, and once a Moral Panic situation develops, it can have a will of its own.

  39. Thersites wrote:

    dee wrote:
    Now I shall claim that TWW readers are part of the intellectual elite!

    Can you supply us with with a TWW Doctorate?

    It’d have to be an Honorary one, but that hasn’t stopped the MoGs from waving theirs around like they were genuine.

  40. Jason wrote:

    @ Dave A A:
    UNISA is a credible institution. So, what’s your point. Don’t know that person

    Apologies for my attempt at insider humor. My point is nothing against UNISA. Doctor Dorothy Patterson earned a credible ThD there and is a professor at a Southern Baptist seminary. Her husband, Mr Patterson, is the seminary president. Unlike Mr Zacharias, whose doctorates are honorary, Dr Patterson could call herself Dr Patterson or Professor Patterson. But the Pattersons subscribe to a system of thought called Complementarianism. So she refers to herself as “Homemaker”. In this system the husband and wife are like complementary angles, together forming a straight line. Both Mr Patterson and Dr Patterson like to wear a hat. But only Dr Patterson can wear a cute hat. So she’s like acute angle. Husbands are obtuse angles, required by the system to hold more degrees. So Dr Patterson’s degrees MUST be downplayed. The system demands it.

  41. I know my example actually describes supple-MEN-tarianism, not complementarianism, — in which the husband and wife angles form the RIGHT angle.
    But I wanted to work in a “cute hat” and an “obtuse husband”

  42. Years ago I was a grad student at a Campus Crusade for Christ retreat. Our guest speaker, who was consider by the host to very “dynamic”, claimed he was a Berkeley “radical” around during the famous times. I had just 5 months earlier graduate from UC Berkeley, so I went up to him after one of his talks thinking he would have interesting stories! When asked/ confronted, he said that he only had taken a “summer class”, and was never really a Berkeley student! While you might fault me for pride, but I am proud to have attended, AND graduated from U C Berkeley and it is VERY dishonest to make it sound that you are “one of us” when you are not…. Given his talk was given ( this retreat) to students from another “big name” University, it was pretty stupid of this “clown” to claim he was from Berkeley….. there is a good chace that others could call him on this…
    Finally, we had a “pick up” football games during the retreat, and this clown was very aggressive, and argumentative with respect callls during the game….he behaved as if we were playing a divsion 1 college game!! Very digusting..

  43. I commented on this issue at Julie Anne’s site a couple of days ago.
    From the OP, quoting the atheist with the Ravi Z site:

    the argument [by Ravi] was compelling in large part because it came from a man whose academic credentials were as good as anybody’s. Would Ravi Zacharias force me to adjust my atheist worldview?

    Silly me. I should know by now that, for every 30 seconds it takes a Christian apologist to make a “fulfilled prophecy” claim, it takes a few hours of tedious research to see that it is probably bogus…

    What I conveyed over at JA’s site about this:

    One reason I am in a faith crisis is precisely this kind of thing: people who say they are Christian but don’t even seemingly attempt to live up to the most basic of Christian ethics.

    On the one hand, I am sympathetic with the atheist’s concern or annoyance with Ravi Z.

    On the other hand, that Ravi Z., or any Christian (or atheist for that matter), may commit ethical lapses, (such as lie about credentials or whatever the issue may be), does not disprove an entire worldview.

    Ravi Z, in other words, my have lied or exaggerated about his college degrees but that does not mean every claim he ever made about Christianity or the faith is in error.

    Nor does faulty Christian behavior disprove Christianity any more than Richard Dawkins misbehaving at times, as he does, automatically disprove atheism, either.

    If Ravi Z. or Dawkins say that the sky is blue and the sun sets in the west, all that remains true, even if both (or either) are lying about their college educations, have been divorced, had affairs, or are behaving obnoxiously or arrogantly.

    However, I do wonder what is the point in following a faith, (one component of which involves honesty), when I see so many who claim that faith (such as Ravi Z) don’t abide by it.

  44. Yeah, their response just shows again how dishonest they are. Hey, it’s not difficult at all to say exactly where and when you studied certain things or what you did or did not do. What is difficult and complicated is spinning a lie, inflating the truth, trying to make yourself seem more important, etc.

    Jesus followers need to be real. Many are. Those in the evangelical money complex usually aren’t.

  45. @ Daisy:
    What you said is true of any faith system. The adherents of every “faith” fail to abide by it. So will you. So does everyone here.

    A Christian points others to Christ, and asks them to believe in Him, not celebrity pastors or Christian superstars.

  46. Regarding the long, long list of claims by Ravi Z.

    I find Ravi’s very long list of claims about himself, or his education and accomplishments, amusing.

    Why stop at claiming one went to Oxford, or is an expert at quantum physics, and so on?

    Why not go all the way? If it were me, if I was into puffing up my resume’ like that, I’d go all out.

    I’d not only claim the Oxford education and so on, but I’d claim to be capable of making circles that contain 90 degree angles, that I can turn into the Hulk, and that I can ride a unicycle, chew gum, and juggle oranges all at the same time.

    I would say I invented a time machine, met Einstein, won debates with Einstein, also met Lincoln and was the true author of the Gettsyburg address – and on and on with the lunacy.

    If you’re going to lie big, then go all the way!
    Ravi disappointingly stopped short.

  47. I wonder if Ravi Z. is one of those guys who would have previously recorded an episode of the trivia game show “Jeopardy!,” then played it back in front of an unsuspecting friend, and blurted out all the answers (I mean “questions” – which he already knew beforehand), all to impress his friend?

    He seems like the kind of guy who would do that sort of thing.

  48. A.Tumbleweed wrote:

    A Christian points others to Christ, and asks them to believe in Him, not celebrity pastors or Christian superstars.

    I can’t entirely agree here. I just did about 3- 4 ver long posts on JA’s blog under the “church” thread discussing something related.

    Many Christians – every day Christians – consistently fail to live out even the very basic building blocks of the faith.

    I don’t expect perfection at all times. I am not even talking about celebrity Christians. I am including rank and file “no names” here.

  49. Dave A A wrote:

    But I wanted to work in a “cute hat” and an “obtuse husband”

    My kids frequently break in when I’m telling a story to “fix” errant details. I remind them that I don’t like to let the facts get in the way of a good story.

  50. Dave A A wrote:

    And who refers to her husband– not as Paige– but Doctor Patterson.

    Wonder if that is because “Paige” has become more commonly a girl’s name?

  51. “He has no earned doctorate, yet, he has, until just recently… called himself Dr. Zacharias.”

    Two can play at this.

    From now on, everyone call me “Dr. Daisy.”
    (I have neither a phD or a medical degree. I do have a college degree, but it’s not a phD.)

    I am reminded of those TV commercials where some actor would sit there to sell some kind of medicine or whatever, and say,
    “I’m not a doctor, but I play one on TV.”

  52. As mentioned in the OP: Matt Lauer.

    I heard about that on TV the other day. Some of the details mentioned were so gross.
    No woman should have to put up with any of that behavior, certainly not on a job, or feel she must put up with it or be fired (as one woman said who worked for him).

  53. Hi Dee. Actually I did not just discover your 2015 report on Ravi. I appreciated it shortly after it came out and was glad that a Christian was helping pass our press release on. Thanks for that and for caring about this important matter. @ Julie Anne:

  54. A.Tumbleweed wrote:

    Yeah, that’s what I said. Everyone fails. Including you.

    No, Tumbleweed, not the same thing.

    I more or less lived out the Christian faith – as did my mother. I have noticed in the years since her passing, that’s not the case with the majority of Christians.

    So I don’t see the point in continuing in a faith where most don’t live up to it or even try, and it’s not transforming their lives.

  55. Julie Anne wrote:

    Dee, thanks for covering this story. I will have more coming out soon. FYI: the threat was forwarded to me by Steve Baughman. I was the source of forthcoming information. So essentially, it was a threat to Steve and me.

    I wonder what kind of faith such people are following, do they think they are following Christ?

    Sending threats (implied or otherwise) of bodily harm is more akin to what I’ve seen in the news where some Muslims get upset over perceived slights to Mohammed (like Mohammed cartoon drawing contests) and go on riots in streets or shoot up magazines that print that stuff.

    People doing similar or threatening to over criticizing or exposing a Christian apologist come across looking pretty much the same to me.

  56. Dave A A wrote:

    One last bit of levity before we all return to the serious topic. We at TWW are most honored to have SEVERAL visiting scholars from Cambridge! And they actually attended! Among them are God, Roger Bombast, 2 Arnolds, and some other fellow.

    Does ‘visiting’ include, or could be construed to mean, stopping in at the university student snack bar to buy a sandwich?

    If so, there may be a lot more visiting scholars than any of us first realized. 🙂

  57. @ Daisy:

    You are all omitting an important aspect.. many of these evangelical “Stars” preach about how pious the pew sitters should be.. the degree and type of “piousness” depends on the flavor of your evangelicals.. some need to speak in tongues, other should never, some should never touch alcohol, other can drink beer during a message, etc, etc, etc… to me, this where the “hypocrisy” come in… we all sin, but as soon as I start telling you how things “should be”, and I do not follow it myself, look out… and Mr. Zacharias claims he is a scholar… his is just a fraud.. he NEVER make it in a true academic world..

  58. What Happened wrote:

    He also claims to have produced “Joi Bangla” with George Harrison and to be the father of Norah Jones under the pseudonym Shankar.

    Are you for real? If so, that’s the kind of lying I was talking about up thread.

    If you’re going to lie, lie big, and make it entertaining.

  59. @ Daisy:
    I find this exchange hilarious…
    On a more serious note, a graduate student of mine attended, and made oral presentations, at a scientific conference on the grounds of Cambridge, and we would never claim we attended Cambridge… we would just claim the name of the conference… this is a further example of what a fraud Zacharis is…

  60. Jeffrey J Chalmers wrote:

    You are all omitting an important aspect.. many of these evangelical “Stars” preach about how pious the pew sitters should be..

    I just wrote about 3 – 4 really long posts at Julie Anne’s SSB blog under the “Church” thread, so I don’t want to repeat it all here. I will attempt to be brief.

    Not only do many Christians I see fail to consistently live up to very basic Christian morality (such as, ‘do not lie, exaggerate one’s resume’), -I mean how hard is it to NOT LIE on one’s resume?
    I don’t think it’s difficult for a person to be honest about one’s college education or prior job experience.

    -But so many Christians also neglect to do very simple things they are capable of doing.

    And there is no excuse for that, not even the guy above saying, “but we all fail.”

    I don’t think so – we don’t all fail all the time on a regular basis at the faith we claim to hold dear, if we’re serious about it.

    Jesus said, “Why do you call me “lord,lord but do not do what I teach.”

    During the years I was Goody Good Christian, I was consistently living out the faith (not lying, cheating, not sleeping around, etc.) and I helped people when and where I could – my mother’s example.

    The Bible says if you are able to do good to someone, do good. But.

    From my own life, an example:
    When my mother died years ago, every Christian I went to seeking help and comfort at that time, shoo’d me away, shamed me, scolded me, some gave me lectures about how I was being selfish for expecting to get my needs met,

    that I should pick myself up by my boot straps, just “get over it” and focus on helping other people less fortunate than myself, etc.

    I think that’s an appalling lack of morals.

    It would not have cost any of those Christians a penny to do something so basic as to give me 30 to 60 mins of their time a month to just “be” there for me. None wanted to do so.

    I mostly went to Christians who are over age 50, retired, in good health, – they weren’t too sickly or busy to be a source of comfort for me.

    I’m just using me as an example there, but the same can apply to others: I’ve seen the same, or similar, things play out with other people I’ve chatted with on forums.

    You have people quitting churches or leaving the faith in disillusionment over stuff like that,

    but we frequently get told stuff like, “You’re expecting all churches to be perfect, but we’re all hypocrites,”

    or, we’re told things like, “Just look to Jesus, not other Christians”
    (okay, but the Bible says you are to act as a Jesus rep to the hurting, I’m not supposed to go through life just reading a Bible and praying to Jesus under a tree).

    I could go on but don’t want to. I get into this more at JA’s Nov 2017 “Church” thread.
    (Link to her Spiritual Sounding Board blog is off to the right hand side of this blog if anyone wants to reply there or read it.)

  61. @ A.Tumbleweed:

    I didn’t consistently fail at living out the faith, though, Mr. Weed.

    I’m not claiming absolute perfection, but I more or less did the basics of what Jesus taught – I didn’t use or abuse people or lie, etc. I’ve not seen that too much from a lot of self professing Christians, Weed.

    My reply to you can be found here:
    http://thewartburgwatch.com/2017/11/29/mr-ravi-zacharias-adds-pizzazz-to-his-bio-and-the-christian-industrial-complex-imposes-the-cone-of-silence/comment-page-1/#comment-347976

  62. A.Tumbleweed wrote:

    Guess it’s a good thing that God grades on a curve then. Maybe we should ask Him?

    And, btw, I don’t think God graves on a curve?

    Jesus said to be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect.

    There is grace, but…
    there is also an expectation that a self professing believer will actually more or less consistently live out Jesus’ teachings.

    Jesus said to judge a tree by its fruit.

    Paul said is some guy among you claims to be a Jesus follower but is consistently, unrepentantly doing sins X or Y, you must kick him out of fellowship.

    So there is at least a minimum of behavior, Jesus and Paul taught, that one should expect to see from one claiming to follow Christ. Not perfection, but a basic, regular morality…

    And not lying on a job application or resume’ is a very simple thing. Not cheating on one’s spouse might be another.

    I just haven’t seen that from a lot of self-professing believers (living out the basics of Christian faith regularly), aside from my mother, and a handful of Christians I’ve run into on blogs such as this one.

  63. FW Rez wrote:

    Wonder if that is because “Paige” has become more commonly a girl’s name?

    I don’t think so. My mother used to refer to my father as “The Doctor” even to her friends. He was a family doctor and his name was Walter. It drove me nuts.

  64. Here is another perspective on the issues of “honorary” degrees..
    I my engineering field, a Ph.D. takes on the order of 4-5 years.. These graduate students are B.S. engineers, that make starting salaries on the order of $70,000 a year with a BS degree… their “stipends” for research or teaching as a grad student can be on the order of $25,000 a year. So, they are losing on the order of $100,000 of lost income to get a Ph.D.. So, to me, good old Ravi is “stealing” something that is worth over $100,000 by claiming he is a “Dr.”….

  65. My comment might make me unpopular, but here goes.

    I world be very disappointed if the allegations prove true, but it would make sense given Ravi’s own description of his childhood — pressure to measure up is a hard demon to kill. That is .not an excuse, but it is understandable. It feels a little disheartening, though…

    That said, my life was transformed by Ravi Zacharias and his team — some of whom I have personally spoke with, and who strike me as brilliant presenters and intellectuals. I have always admired his work and methods of intellectual engagement, which still hold valid even if he’s shady on his academic accomplishments.

    If these allegations are true, I view it in the way I view Martin Luther King — even if he plagiarized for his thesis, the rest of his work has affected my life profoundly. Does their dishonesty about their academic achievements outweigh the things they actually have achieved, or the countless lives they have touched? I would respond with a resounding “no.”

    Now, that does not by any means excuse academic dishonesty — the strongest thing Ravi could do would explain the truth in full, as he has so often exhorted others to do. Even if he has embellished his resum — which would be disappointing — does that negate the rest of his work?

    Also, I think it is a slippery slope to say “Well, if he was dishonest about one thing, who knows what else he was dishonest about?” I’ve followed him for quite some time, and my personal impression is that he genuinely cares about the people he speaks and writes to, but sometimes has a flair for the theatrical. I see that as a slight weakness that may hamper a little bit the effectiveness of his arguments, but it by no means leads me to believe he is a perpetrator and cheat on the level of Driscoll or others he is being compared to here. He is extremely gentle and kind, and cautious of overstepping personal boundaries — unlike the known perpetrators people are comparing him with. Dishonesty is a far cry from abuse — if that were not the case, then everyone, absolutely bar none, would be an abuser. That does not excuse dishonesty or shady dealing with the truth — but surely academic embellishment — which any honest college grad would have to fess up to — is not on the same level as emotional or sexual abuse? Sure, it’s inexcusable, but ought it to be treated in the same way as the terrible cases we’ve seen so often on this blog?

    If puffing up your resume is a disqualifying action on the level of cheating on your spouse or sleeping with other parishioners’ wives, then by all means kick him out. But I’m not sure they’re all that equal.

    I am very disappointed to hear of these things — don’t get me wrong — and I think he’s got some explaining to do, and owes it to his readers to walk in the pursuit of truth which for which he has provided an exemplary defense — but I am not prepared to call him an abuser any more than I am inclined to call MLK an abuser. I see it as an example that even the best and brightest share the same weakness as everyone else. The question is, does that disqualify him or remove the veracity or relevance of his work?

    For my part, I expect nothing less than either full confession or full exoneration. I don’t think this will be the end of RZIM — in fact, this is just another opportunity to live out the pursuit of truth they have championed so effectively in the past.

    Given his work, I find all the accusations of Ravi Zacharias as being a charlatan to be rather empty — aside from his slightly dramatic approach to philosophy, which is a delicate line for anyone to walk when trying to make dry academics emotionally and existentiallt relevant.

    I am a little surprised at the condescension in some of the comments here, though. Given a fair analysis, is Zacharias really on the level of Driscoll et al.?

  66. Steve Baughman wrote:

    Hi Dee. Actually I did not just discover your 2015 report on Ravi. I appreciated it shortly after it came out and was glad that a Christian was helping pass our press release on. Thanks for that and for caring about this important matter. @ Julie Anne:

    Yay! Thank you for chiming in. I’ve been on journey to document all of the false “Dr” types in the pulpit. I have written reps for Mr. Z regarding his stint in Moscow: “He has addressed writers of the peace accord in South Africa and military officers at the Lenin Military Academy and the Center for Geopolitical Strategy in Moscow.”

    I can’t find the Geopolitical Institute and the Lenin Military Academy was the Lenin Military Political Academy which merged with other groups to form “Military University of the Ministry of Defence of Russia.”

    I am Russian on my dad’s side and travelled to Russia on 3 different occasions. Russian history is also a hobby of mine. When I read that again, incased me to wonder…a lot.

  67. Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

    Though Matt Lauer’s seems a LOT more serious than Garrison Keillor’s. Kellor’s seems a one-time incident (and sounds more clueless)

    That’s what I thought. I read yesterday somewhere that he apologized twice to her, she said to forget about it, and that they were friends right up until he heard from her lawyer. In his case, the accusation seems kind of hinkey.

  68. I’ve heard too many lies told in churches regarding “scientific facts”, “hidden agendas” and pastors trying to pass off storied from the internet as “really happened to them” to believe anything said in a church.

    Most closed religious communities try to foster an “us vs them” mentality and these “Dr’s” take advantage of that ignorance.

    I really think that some are so far down the rabbit hole that they really do believe they are somehow untouchable. Ergo they threaten or try to discredit critics…not for the world out there but for those within their own community. We saw that with Perry Noble’s antics (or antics done in his name) in the Pajama Pages fiasco.

    And then they’re shocked when a blue and white shows up at their door and charges are laid or lawsuits are filed…and the closed community goes “aha! they really were after us!” and so it goes.

    It’s about time some of this was blown open. Will it change the Christian money machine? Probably not. But at least you can expose these clowns for what they really are to rest of us.

  69. Daisy wrote:

    I don’t think so – we don’t all fail all the time on a regular basis at the faith we claim to hold dear, if we’re serious about it

    You seem to have a very high view of human effort, something I have not had the privilege of seeing succeed consistently in anyone but Jesus — not in Paul, not in any of the disciples, nor any other SuperChristian — if at all, only in people who don’t talk about action but just do it, and are overlooked.

  70. Hmm, we get bent out of shape (rightly!)when some dude fluffs his bio with honorary degrees. It is lying or deceiving and scripture does clearly forbid that.

    Scripture clearly forbids a whole lot of stuff that churches and non churched individuals are falling all over themselves to “explain away” by “unpacking the real meaning” and telling us we’ve misunderstood for 2000 years. Most of those are issues related to gender roles within the church or sexuality, but not all:

    Scripture is pretty clear we never should have invented the 1st class 2nd class system known as clergy/laity. Never brought in graven images. Never invented hierarchy. Never taught the tithe as binding on Christians. Never ordained anyone or called any human a spiritual authority or father.

    Hmm. Maybe I’ll toss my stones at my own feet and start cleaning there:)

  71. A.Tumbleweed wrote:

    Guess it’s a good thing that God grades on a curve then. Maybe we should ask Him?

    Just did….haven’t heard back yet. Maybe he’s busy?

  72. See. This is very interesting. A few days ago a Christian student at Oxford expressed his concern about that exact same Institute. He looked into it and found it never existed. I searched for it and couldn’t find it either. Then I noticed that Ravi describes it in his book as a very big deal, Mikael Gorbachev and a bunch of other famous people with there.

    This could, of course, just be a matter of Ravi being sloppy with details. I mean, they’re probably was some “institute” that he spoke at there. But, really, at some point his cavalier attitude towards details crosses over into a cavalier attitude towards truth.

    Thanks for noticing this issue.

    @ dee:

  73. I don’t understand the lack of compassion for Dr Zacchaeus. Didn’t Jesus say it’s not the healthy who need a doctorate, but the sick? Praise God for healing his servant through his Word from the scriptures.

    God bless,

    Arnold Dummarse

  74. Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

    Today (as of 2:00PM) saw the firing of both Matt Lauer and Garrison Keillor for inappropriate behavior.

    Dateline 1:37 CST: Headline regarding Representative Joe Barton:

    “After nude photos and sex messages, Barton says he won’t seek re-election”

  75. dee wrote:

    Center for Geopolitical Strategy in Moscow

    I’ve been looking for the “CGS” since you raised the question on Twitter. The only references I’ve seen, which I’m sure has been your experience as well, has been from RZIM materials.

  76. There’s someone from Maranatha who claims on his resume to have spoken at a number of different universities, including Ivy League universities. What he actually did was speak at church meetings that were held on campus. Given that I see no reason to take the rest of his resume at face value.

    I really don’t get lying in the service of God, if that is really whose service these people are lying in. That the lies are so transparent just makes it worse.

  77. Daisy wrote:

    I’d not only claim the Oxford education and so on, but I’d claim to be capable of making circles that contain 90 degree angles

    Every circle does in fact contain exactly (4) 90 deg. angles. Think about it.
    Truth is an ‘iffy’ proposition.

  78. Hi. Having compassion does not entail that we let someone keep their secrets.

    I had dinner with Ravi a few days ago. I feel
    totally sorry for him. But I feel it more important to get the truth out about his deceptions. They are blatant, and his online sexual affair was outrageously manipulative, suicide threats and all.

    But, yes, important to keep compassion at the forefront.

    @ Nick Bulbeck:

  79. Ravi is notorious for doing exactly that. There is an awful passage in this book where he boast of the famous universities he has spoken at says that if there is a University that he has not spoken at it’s because he didn’t have time to accommodate their request.

    What he doesn’t tell you it is that these invites were largely from student organizations or Christian groups. Not the faculties or the universities themselves.

    Really not good.

    @ Robert M:

  80. Try looking for Ravi’s so-called “Asian Youth Preacher Award.” Same thing. It only comes up under his name.

    He assured me the other night that he once had a trophy that said “Asian Youth Preacher Award” but that the writing has faded. He told me he could get a letter from the person who was president of the sponsoring organization confirming the award. I said I would like that.

    Maybe he’s telling the truth. But it sure looks fishy.

    @ Robert M:
    @ Burwell:

  81. What is disappointing is that I find Ravi a wholly engaging and excellent communicator. Many times I have commented that I could listen to him talk about nearly anything with his excellent delivery and tone. It seems odd to think made up degrees and accolades were necessary to get him in front of people. If he had simply done what he has done he would have assuredly been in a virtually identical place of success today.

    My completely ungrounded theory is that he must have felt the need to embellish early on to get his career jump started and then when it really took off it was too late to correct the record.

  82. Ravi Zacharias and his ministry (& loyal fans), just like CJ Mahaney and his ministry (& loyal fans like TGC) are Harvey Weinsteins and Miramax but christian.

    too big to fail. too big to be held accountable. too big to tell the truth.

    “All I can share is that there is an evangelical celebrity machine that is more powerful than anyone realizes. You may not go up against the machine. That is all. Mark Driscoll clearly plagiarized and those who could have underscored the seriousness of it and demanded accountability did not. That is the reality of the evangelical industrial complex.”–Ingrid Schlueter

    http://theaquilareport.com/ingrid-schlueter-resigns-from-janet-mefferd-show-over-mark-driscoll-plagiarism-controversy/

  83. Christian culture = so late, so behind in everything. including basic right and wrong.

    Once again, “Christian” means so behind the current and such a delayed reaction all they can do is don copy-cat behavior and try to look cool and relevant by pretending. you can even smell the plastic, warming on revved engines playing catch-up.

    in this case, it takes “the world” (oh, the EVIL SCARY WORLD!) to do the right thing and call out wrong-doing (an understatement). Christian culture stays huddled in its elitist big ego and powerful money-making image-burnishing castles, and its peasants are warmed by the glow of it all.

    insisting on the truth and accountability simply costs too much.

  84. PS.

    I wonder if Ravi ever traveled to a foreign country to officiate the wedding of a poor person.

    That Hayden / Kho (the Brad and Angeline of the Philippines) wedding was a sad spectacle of extravagance and excess that would have made Marie Antoinette cringe. But not Ravi. He got to hang with the celebs. Check it out. But not on a full stomach.

    @ Steve Baughman:

  85. @ dee:
    Although Wiki is not the most reliable source, it would appear that the Lenin Military Academy changed its name (long) before RZ preached there.

    The Lenin Military-Political Academy (Russian: Военно-политическая академия имени В. И. Ленина) specialized in training political officers for the Soviet Armed Forces, and until 1942, political commissars for the Armed Forces. After a number of reorganizations, it was in 1994 merged with the “Military Institute of Foreign Languages” and the “Armed Forces Humanities Academy” into the “Military University of the Ministry of Defence of Russia” (Военный университет Министерства обороны Российской Федерации)[7] which offers cadets (both officers and NCOs) various courses and postgraduate studies.

  86. @ Lowlandseer:
    It’s further complicated by the fact that it was one of only two biological warfare sites identified in a 2012 book “The Soviet Biological Weapons Program: a history…by Milton Leitenberg and others.

  87. @ elastigirl:
    The real irony is that those of us at the “secular humanist” universities take plagiarism, and lying like Ravi and his clowns do much more seriously… but remember, we are all of Satan anyway, so what I say can be completely dismissed..

  88. @ Lowlandseer:
    Here’s a bit more detail that might help establish exactly when he was in Moscow.

    “In 1989, shortly after the fall of the Berlin Wall, Zacharias was invited to speak in Moscow. While there he spoke to students at the Lenin Military Academy as well as political leaders at the Center for Geopolitical Strategy.”

    https://alchetron.com/Ravi-Zacharias

  89. Dave A A wrote:

    Doctor Dorothy Patterson– who bills herself as homemaker and first lady of SWBTS.
    And who refers to her husband– not as Paige– but Doctor Patterson.

    Like Douggie ESQUIRE, they sure do like those Titles, don’t they?

  90. A.Tumbleweed wrote:

    Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
    Though Matt Lauer’s seems a LOT more serious than Garrison Keillor’s. Kellor’s seems a one-time incident (and sounds more clueless)

    That’s what I thought. I read yesterday somewhere that he apologized twice to her, she said to forget about it, and that they were friends right up until he heard from her lawyer. In his case, the accusation seems kind of hinkey.

    Any idea how long ago the incident was?

    During my time in high school in the early Seventies (when I first got interested in girls), some of the things I did out of sheer cluelessness would have gotten me up on stalking or sexual harassment charges if I did them nowadays. And I wasn’t the only one.

    (Maybe more clueless than most because of Kid Genius side effects, but “the proper way to treat a female” has changed between now & then. Even original Star Trek‘s future included micro-miniskirts, gams, and the occasional unprofessional catcall or butt slap. These were considered normal male-to-female interaction at the time — at least from the male side.)

  91. Daisy wrote:

    As mentioned in the OP: Matt Lauer.
    I heard about that on TV the other day. Some of the details mentioned were so gross.

    No woman should have to put up with any of that behavior, certainly not on a job, or feel she must put up with it or be fired (as one woman said who worked for him).

    It was the remote-control locks on his office doors that got me. Able to lock all the doors by puhing a button on his desk. Trapping prey on the order of John Wayne Gacy removing the interior door handles from his car.

  92. Well, I declare. My DIL is a lawyer and she plays clawhammer banjo. Up on the parkway there is a music center, kind of a combination of museum of the history mountain music as well as a place where musicians play for the public. We went up there and one of the people commemorated in the museum was the woman who taught DIL and her mom to play back in the day.

    So DIL plays for us some, but the first time I just about could not tell one tune from the other. But when she put the words to the tune then I could tell the difference. For a brief moment I fantasized that maybe I could learn a little fiddle, but the word is of course that one cannot go from violin to fiddle. Well, some have done it, but I totally hit a brick wall. Too bad. It would have been fun. I have not seen her play since she went back to work.

    I do like mountain music though. And yes, that banjo is a heck of a lot heavier than my violin.

    I just thought–I am getting rid of a bunch of my stuff before I die, and maybe her oldest would like my violin. I have two actually, and she has another kid coming along after that one-maybe they would like a couple of violins. The oldest is taking piano lessons and he loves it. Good idea. I will ask them.

    Okay-ode to mountain clawhammer banjo.

  93. Daisy wrote:

    I would say I invented a time machine, met Einstein, won debates with Einstein, also met Lincoln and was the true author of the Gettsyburg address – and on and on with the lunacy.

    As in Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure, or just Mr Peabody & Sherman?

  94. Daisy wrote:

    Ravi Z, in other words, my have lied or exaggerated about his college degrees but that does not mean every claim he ever made about Christianity or the faith is in error.

    Ravi Z’s not the first guy to pad his resume, and he won’t be the last.

    Remember Ergun Caner?

  95. I’ve come across several independent references from the 1990s to what appears to be a government institute or think tank in Moscow, translated variously into English as “Center for Geopolitical and Military Forecasting” or “Centre for Geopolitical and Military Prognosis.”

  96. Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

    Dave A A wrote:

    Doctor Dorothy Patterson– who bills herself as homemaker and first lady of SWBTS.
    And who refers to her husband– not as Paige– but Doctor Patterson.

    Like Douggie ESQUIRE, they sure do like those Titles, don’t they?

    Doug Phillips wasn’t even practicing law and he used Esquire. It’d be like me using Esquire as part of my signature on work emails. Completely inappropriate and the thought makes me cringe!

  97. Has anyone found any independent sources NOT quoting or involving Steve Baughman and not other blogs using essentially the same single source to corroborate any of these allegations?

  98. @ Steve Baughman:

    Sorry – this was meant to be posted by my alter-ego, Arnold Dummarse. “His” comments all mean the opposite of what any reasonable person would say…

  99. Daisy, I hope you don’t mind a comment from an atheist from your question, Ravi’s moral failings don’t undermine the truth of your religion except to some minuscule degree. He is one example of the blood of Christ not doing its trick. But that’s may be Ravi’s fault.

    Now, if we see this stuff a lot it would be more weighty evidence against Christianity. IMHO.

    @ Daisy:

  100. Hi Tubleweed. Let me quote Steve Baughman here by referring you to the authorities at Cambridge, Oxford, alliance theological seminary and Ravi’s own website over the years, the latter which you can access via the way back machine

    You sound like you are willing to do your homework. You can also contact me at http://www.RaviWatch.com if you want more quotes for me

    @ A.Tumbleweed:

  101. Ravi describes his teenage suicide attempt as not due to depression but out of a feeling that he was not getting anywhere in life. He also makes clear that he thrived on the adulation that came from Audiences after he got saved and began preaching. See Walking From East To West. @ Adam Borsay:

  102. I watched a couple of the Braughman videos and I find them compelling. If the allegations are true it is very disturbing. And also sad because I have gotten a lot out of his books.

    The story of a famous person padding their resume is common enough to almost make this particular case boring. If the allegations are true, the bigger story is how all of this was covered up until now. And also why Braughman seems to be the only source for exposing all of this. Normally there are more people involved in the take-down of celebrities. What was it that kept all of his ministry associates silent and/or in on the scam? How was he able to snow so many intellectuals for so long? That is the story that needs to be told, if in fact Braughman is correct.

    Are there indications that RZ or RZIM are involved in any kind of abuse? The legal case is odd, but does not appear to show abuse. I would expect others to come forth with more examples in the near future if it is as bad as the videos make it appear.

  103. Steve Baughman wrote:

    He also makes clear that he thrived on the adulation that came from Audiences after he got saved and began preaching.

    Well, that explains a few things. Be accepted, to speak, at any cost.

  104. A.Tumbleweed wrote:

    A Christian points others to Christ, and asks them to believe in Him, not celebrity pastors or Christian superstars

    Ok. But there seems to be a fixation on proving that every single part of the bible is true. 100%! If any part isn’t then the Christian excercise means nothing!
    Science has disproved a lot of the literalism. The literal bible convinces no one.
    Look at Michael Behe with his irreducible complexity.
    At least Behe had a degree from an accredited university.
    The obsession with literalism keeps guys like Ravi in business.

  105. @ Ken F (aka Tweed):
    Well, that’s what I find odd. This afternoon all I could find was a single person making accusations and a bunch of blogs repeating the accusations. There is an echo chamber quality to all of the speculation.

    How do we know that the accuser has any of the qualifications that he claims to have? I read some twitter activity that looked an aweful lot like trolling to me. Are we supposed to take accusations at face value from just one source? I thought Christians were supposed to have higher standards.

    So far this is not passing the smell test for me. And saying “if these accusations are true” as some kind of disclaimer doesnt really cut it. Sorry.

  106. A.Tumbleweed wrote:

    So far this is not passing the smell test for me.

    Same for me. Over the last few years I’ve done quite a lot of internet searches. I normally find multiple independent sources that converge. In this case it seems to be just one source. That does not mean that one source is wrong, but it’s very unusual compared to my other experiences. Time will tell. In the mean time, I am not planning to jump on the bandwagon.

  107. Julie Anne wrote:

    FYI: the threat was forwarded to me by Steve Baughman. I was the source of forthcoming information. So essentially, it was a threat to Steve and me.

    Did anyone report this threat to the police so that it can be investigated?

  108. Ken F (aka Tweed) wrote:

    So far this is not passing the smell test for me.

    Same for me. Over the last few years I’ve done quite a lot of internet searches. I normally find multiple independent sources that converge. In this case it seems to be just one source.

    Check Warren Throckmorton’s posts. He’s been digging, too, and so far everything has lined up with what Baughman has said.

  109. Daisy wrote:

    One reason I am in a faith crisis is precisely this kind of thing: people who say they are Christian but don’t even seemingly attempt to live up to the most basic of Christian ethics.

    I’ve never had difficulty believing that there were liars of all stripes out there claiming to be anything and everything. Do they make me mad? Sometimes. But they don’t cause me to struggle.

    However, it’s all the other Christians that follow these people without vetting them that really frustrate me. So many Christians blindly follow people without even trying to find out who they really are.

    I met a lot of those “big names” in college and seminary and most of them were clearly not worthy of followers. I could tell some of them were the dregs of the universe moments after I met them.

    I’ll be honest, I saw Zacharias 20 years ago at a large public university meeting. He called himself a doctor then. I had no reason to doubt him. But I’ve always found apologetics the wrong tactic to take. Some part of me (I think) believes that it’s necessary to an extent but I have found arguing apologetics wholly ineffective and I tried for quite some time because that was what you were supposed to do in fundamentalism. It never worked. So I never cared that much to vet such guys like Zacharias myself.

    Do I vet other people? To some extent, but I’ll be honest and say that I usually don’t trust anyone else to “follow”. The people I do want to emulate spend their time praying in hospitals with sick people and working in homeless shelters asking for no acclaim or glory.

  110. okrapod wrote:

    I just thought–I am getting rid of a bunch of my stuff before I die, and maybe her oldest would like my violin. I have two actually, and she has another kid coming along after that one-maybe they would like a couple of violins.

    Keep passing them (violins) on. You never know what genetic magic might happen. I keep hearing Beethoven’s Violin Concerto in the line of your progeny.

  111. Dave A A wrote:

    You know who has an earned doctorate from the University of South Africa? Doctor Dorothy Patterson– who bills herself as homemaker and first lady of SWBTS.
    And who refers to her husband– not as Paige– but Doctor Patterson.

    There’s just something about Americans going to impoverished country’s and blessing them with their own magnificent pressence that makes me want to wretch. That sort of arrogance usually does lead to needing titles of superiority over the commoners.

    I am waiting for some American Religious Society to send funds to one of the millions of impoverished churches in other countries that weren’t founded by an american or english missionary or church. Its my opinion that the height of spiritual arrogance is when people believe that Jesus only starts churches based on their own countries denominational views and shouldnt be thought valid if it didnt get it via the US/UK church TM. I fear we no longer preach the gospel and Jesus dying for the sins of the world but instead preach our churches and esteemed pastorsTM.

  112. ishy wrote:

    I studied computer science at Harvard. I really did.

    Hehe you have a ishy-doctorate from Harvard-ishy and Julliard-ishy

  113. Dave A A wrote:

    I know my example actually describes supple-MEN-tarianism, not complementarianism, — in which the husband and wife angles form the RIGHT angle.
    But I wanted to work in a “cute hat” and an “obtuse husband”

    Rofl

  114. Jeffrey J Chalmers wrote:

    Years ago I was a grad student at a Campus Crusade for Christ retreat. Our guest speaker, who was consider by the host to very “dynamic”, claimed he was a Berkeley “radical” around during the famous times. I had just 5 months earlier graduate from UC Berkeley, so I went up to him after one of his talks thinking he would have interesting stories! When asked/ confronted, he said that he only had taken a “summer class”, and was never really a Berkeley student! While you might fault me for pride, but I am proud to have attended, AND graduated from U C Berkeley and it is VERY dishonest to make it sound that you are “one of us” when you are not

    I think this points out his pride more than anything. People that actually do the work required to have the claim of alumnus see it clearly while others would believe it just because they would assume that Campus Crusade wouldnt have invited him if he was a liar.
    This and Ravi Zacharias are really good examples of how Christianity so often isnt about glorifying Christ but their own celebrity instead. Its very sad to me and it probably breaks Gods heart daily.
    Zoanne Wilkie once said “They took the robe and scepter from Him that is Worthy and placed it upon one of their own choosing.”

  115. @ sandy c:
    “For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus’ sake.” 2 Cor 4:5

    King James Version (KJV)

  116. Daisy wrote:

    Are you for real? If so, that’s the kind of lying I was talking about up thread.

    If you’re going to lie, lie big, and make it entertaining.

    Daisy

    I’m just joking, but I have other knowledge that lacks truth as well. These squishy facts depend on less obscure references.

    1. He wrote a song a few years ago titled “Play Sitar” that was stolen by Mellencamp who made minor modifications. The song originally included these lyrics:

    You may find a cushy pastor’s job and I hope that you go far
    But if you really want to taste some cool success
    You better learn to play sitar

    2. Billy Graham died his hair snow white as he aged to be like Ravi.

    3. He’s nothing like Brian Williams.

  117. @ sandy c:

    Ecclesiastes 10:5There is an evil I have seen under the sun, like an error which goes forth from the ruler— 6folly is set in many exalted places while rich men sit in humble places. 7I have seen slaves riding on horses and princes walking like slaves on the land.

  118. What Happened wrote:

    1. He wrote a song a few years ago titled “Play Sitar” that was stolen by Mellencamp who made minor modifications. The song originally included these lyrics:

    You may find a cushy pastor’s job and I hope that you go far
    But if you really want to taste some cool success
    You better learn to play sitar

    2. Billy Graham died his hair snow white as he aged to be like Ravi.

    3. He’s nothing like Brian Williams.

    Are these the Christianese-approved substitute for Chuck Norris jokes?

  119. Jeffrey J Chalmers wrote:

    to me, this where the “hypocrisy” come in… we all sin, but as soon as I start telling you how things “should be”, and I do not follow it myself, look out… and Mr. Zacharias claims he is a scholar… his is just a fraud.. he NEVER make it in a true academic world..

    I agree, and your point is easily confirmed if one just puts the word “Hypocrite” into a bible word search and they would see that was the distinction Jesus made also. It is veey different from a believer that occasionally stumbles in sin.
    Also i was thinking that “Doctorate” (not true doctorate degrees) is being used by schucksters like Scribes and pharisees of old used enlarging the borders of their garments.

    “For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

    5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

    6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,

    7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi. “

  120. Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

    Are these the Christianese-approved substitute for Chuck Norris jokes?

    Ravi also did the stunt work for the scene where Walker Texas Ranger kicks the front windshield of a speeding car.

  121. Steve Baughman wrote:

    I wonder if Ravi ever traveled to a foreign country to officiate the wedding of a poor person.

    So i dont know you, but i think this statement you made is the same as how Jesus pointed out differences that should be in His followers and those in hypocritical religious positions. I am not really surprised that ‘christian’ media doesnt want to hear any flaws in their religious stars, because they are making their livelihoods on the stardom of those people. Its all wrapped up in a pretext of ‘saving souls’ and ‘preaching the gospel’.
    A really quick way to tell what gospel they are preaching is to see if its what Jesus preached and the way He said to preach it and live it. An earlier commenter said something like Ravi could have been in the same position of ‘success’ had he not lied. A ‘career’ in christianity is astounding to me! In following Jesus, the disciples didnt set out to become business professionals!
    Pauls ‘credentials’ began with throwing aside wordly creds and saying his were in his sufferings and weaknesses. In shipwrecks, hunger and nakedness, in often not taking money from people for preaching. He warned against looking to the outward appearance, and reminded the corinthians that they said his bodily presence was weak and his speach contemptible. Paul said he would glory in his infirmities because Jesus’ strength is made perfect in weakness. Even John wrote about the state of the church being inundated with people that were using it just for their own fame. Kinda odd for me to think about how even a disciple that walked with Jesus was disregarded, probably because he didnt have a doctorate! 3 John 1:9-10 “I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.
    10 Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.”

    If you want to find true followers of Christ Jesus i suggest looking in the slums and inner cities instead of at the television or press stars of ‘christianity TM’
    I am glad you and others are shining light on people like this ‘Dr’ but i also hope it doesnt lead you to conclude that all people that claim to follow Jesus are like that, or that Jesus is even remotely like that!

  122. Jack wrote:

    Ok. But there seems to be a fixation on proving that every single part of the bible is true. 100%! If any part isn’t then the Christian excercise means nothing!
    Science has disproved a lot of the literalism. The literal bible convinces no one.

    When people came to Jesus demanding a sign He gave them none, but the sign of Jonah. Throughout Jesus’ 3yr ministry He was confronted by people that wanted scriptural arguements and proof of many things. They wanted to discuss religious principles such as whether there was an afterlife or how many good works and what kind were necessary to get into heaven.

    “Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
    40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.”

    He said no man comes to the Father but by Me (Jesus) and they didnt want to have to go that route so they changed the subject. The entire bible points to Jesus but instead of going to Him people often want to prove or disprove things as in debate class. Its much entertaining to discuss religion if people can just keep out Jesus who is alive and would explain everything personally, but thats not how it works.

  123. A.Tumbleweed wrote:

    So far this is not passing the smell test for me. And saying “if these accusations are true” as some kind of disclaimer doesnt really cut it. Sorry.

    The fact that Ravi and RZIM ministries just spent 24 hrs trying to erase every single “Dr” Zacharias title from their websites is pretty conclusive evidence of something, in my opinion!

  124. @ Julie Anne:

    https://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2017/11/30/ravi-zacharias-must-explain-lawsuit-narratives-and-emails/

    Oh my, the emails tell a truth hard to comprehend!

    The reason i am so glad that i found wartburgwatch (and am thankful people put up with me here), is entirely because of what the Deebs and Julie Anne do. Its not an attack famous clergy forum, or a seek out miniscule flaws in someones doctrine forum. Red flags like someone using false doctorate degrees almost always point to underlying deep and grieveous sins under the surface. Its about the devestating damage done to vulnerable people.

    A womans life was almost totally destroyed by this man and the only thing Mr. Rivi seemed to be concerned with was whether his name was going to be disclosed and how it would effect him! And another ‘settle a suit and seal the evidence’ leaves more vulnerable people at risk of being abused.
    Thanks Julie Anne for once again caring about victims and possible future victims!

  125. @ sandy c:

    sandy c, thank you for your kind words. You truly get why I did it. I had to think back through our conversations and one message stood loud and clear: she wanted her story to be told. One of the most disturbing things I’ve ever dealt with in my life is the silencing of abuse. The silencing of abuse has affected my childhood, my adulthood, my married life, etc. If people would have spoken out, my life would be so different. But maybe I wouldn’t be doing this, so I have no regrets, but the pain is real when there is silence. And if I can help alleviate any of that pain, you better believe I’m going to do it. We survivors stick together and we are going to raise our collective voices, even when gag orders attempt to shut us down.

  126. Daisy wrote:

    One reason I am in a faith crisis is precisely this kind of thing: people who say they are Christian but don’t even seemingly attempt to live up to the most basic of Christian ethics.

    However, I do wonder what is the point in following a faith, (one component of which involves honesty), when I see so many who claim that faith (such as Ravi Z) don’t abide by it.

    Jesus spent much of His ministry straightening out what were God’s chosen people, meant to be those bearing God’s glory to the rest of the world. Where He gave a particular concentration was to correcting and rebuking their leaders. So many professed that they followed God, but in vain they worshipped Him, as they taught the doctrines of men.

    The falling away and the judgment that accompanies the modern church are spoken of in God’s word. While it is lamentable and can be discouraging (I’m at a church where leadership is showing some real issues), we ought not let man’s failures unduly impact our faith.

  127. Please everyone! Check out the Spiritual Sounding Board latest post on Ravi Zacharias. This is the explosive stuff some of us knew existed but we were not allowed to revealed to the public. It is now confirmed. The great evangelist threatened suicide in writing in order to convince a married woman not to disclose their affair to her husband.

    And as Warren Throckmorton shared with us today, the evangelist will be doing major fundraising activity in the next two weeks.

    Let’s get the story out. The Christian press has treated this like a potato straight out of hell. They have not reported a single word about it. This is a highly disturbing story that donors and fans of Mr. Zacharias need to know about now, before they donate anymore money.

    Please share. And also please write to Mr. Zacharias and encourage him to address these issues publicly and to do the right thing. rakzach@gmail.com and pr@rzim.org.

  128. @ Ken F (aka Tweed):
    Tumbleweed and Ken G.
    I do not know Steve Baughman from the man on the moon. However, years ago I heard “Ravi” speak at least once, and he was definitely presented as a “academic” with all the associated degrees and invited “visting” positions at “big name” institutions. At the time I “trusted” the evangelical “establishment” that these claims were true.
    Fast forward to today. I have been a engineering professor for 30 years at a big name state school ( or a evil secular humanist insitution depending on what flavor of evangelicalism you are), and I on my own read “Ravi’s” own web site and facebook page. All of his “doctorates” are honorary.. i.e. unearned… and it is FRAUD to present them as earned…which has been done for years ( silly me for believing the evangelical community!!). As I wrote above, in my field a earned Ph.D. cost over $100,000 in unearned income and 4-5 years of their life…… Further, “Ravi” association/invitations with “big name” institutions are lies to attempt to give him credibility.
    The “evangelical” complex tries to downplay these frauds/lies…… Those of us that are in the academic world DO NOT downplay these lies/FRAUDS….. the fact that the “evangelical complex” continues to overlook this FRAUD is a charge against the “corporate system”, which is much more serious than just “Ravi”…..
    Finally, it is not all surprising that more personal “stuff” is coming out about “Ravi”. If he is willing to commit FRAUD about his academic credentials, and “evangelical complex” lets him get away with it, there will be probably be other “ stuff”
    It is time to blow the whistle on the “evangelical complex” for enabling corporate FRAUD…

  129. sandy c wrote:

    A womans life was almost totally destroyed by this man and the only thing Mr. Rivi seemed to be concerned with was whether his name was going to be disclosed and how it would effect him!

    Ummm. It does not look that way to me. I think she/they set him up, pursued him and they are now trying to blackmail him (shake him down) for loads of cash. He, on the other hand, got trapped by his own long journey into fraud and deceit and apparent feelings of invulnerability and how he grew careless with the power of sin (lies) in his own life and walked right into the trap willingly.

    So who set the trap? ‘Satan.’ So who was/were the doofus (doofi?)? Everybody involved.

    Now that this has gone public, however, it is not hard to see who wins (nobody) and who loses (everybody). What does she mean she might tell her husband? Is her husband oblivious to this? Bah and humbug. What could RZ possibly have in mind except to publicly repent, wait a bit and write a book to get back on the evangelism circuit where there are those who would forgive and personally relate to another ‘sinner saved by grace’. Meanwhile maybe she can write about her own ‘victimization’ for a slightly different market and even get on the speaker’s path herself.

    Meanwhile the rest of us can take this as a cautionary tale, lest more of us get caught in the end results of our own foolishnesses and deceptions.

  130. From the Veritas Forum web site:

    Ravi Zacharias is a Senior Research Fellow at Wycliffe Hall, a permanent private hall of the University of Oxford, and founder of Ravi Zacharias International Ministries. He has spoken at numerous universities, notably Harvard, Princeton, and Oxford, and has addressed other significant, international audiences, including the writers of the peace accord in South Africa, the president’s cabinet and parliament in Peru, and the Annual Prayer Breakfast at the United Nations in New York. Zacharias was born in India in 1946. He received his Master of Divinity from Trinity International University in Deerfield, Illinois and held the chair of Evangelism and Contemporary Thought at Alliance Theological Seminary for three and a half years. He has received honorary Doctor of Divinity degrees from Houghton College, Tyndale College and Seminary and McMaster Divinity College, Toronto. He has written or edited over twenty books, including The Real Face of Atheism, Can Man Live without God?, Jesus Among Other Gods, Walking from East to West (Zondervan, 2006), The Grand Weaver, The End of Reason: A Response to the New Atheists , and Beyond Opinion. His latest books are Why Jesus?, released by FaithWords in January 2012, and Has Christianity Failed You

  131. okrapod wrote:

    Ummm. It does not look that way to me. I think she/they set him up, pursued him and they are now trying to blackmail him (shake him down) for loads of cash.

    Based on a skilled attorneys compelling legal narrative, one in which he is paid to paint RZ in a very positive light? Alrighty, then. You’ve convinced me. NOT

  132. @ Julie Anne:

    Hi Julie Anne. The “shock” is that’s it’s Ravi Zacharias. I keep saying that nothing surprises me anymore but then I get surprised.

    Thanks so much to you and TWW for helping us all walk in the light of truth.

    Hard to believe that now the Christian thing to do is pay someone to conceal the truth.

  133. “The use or abuse of Christianity in contradiction to the very message of the gospel reveals not the gospel for what it is, but the heart of man.” (Ravi Zacharias)

  134. Steve wrote:

    Hi Julie Anne. The “shock” is that’s it’s Ravi Zacharias. I keep saying that nothing surprises me anymore but then I get surprised.

    oopsy, Steve, I missed your sarcasm. Yes, it is very disturbing to know that Christians hide their secrets and pay others to stay quiet. It makes me angry and it really messes with the whole idea of integrity and being like Christ. This behavior must be brought to light.

  135. So many of his statements are lying by omission.

    This is akin to me saying: “I was invited to sing at the US Air Force Academy Cadet Chapel in Colorado Springs.” Ooh, Ahh – how impressive!

    The reality is – it was a wedding held in the chapel and the groom was an Air Force officer. I was asked to sing in their wedding. The chapel was the venue. My singing there had nothing to do with being invited by the Air Force…they don’t even know I exist! So, you really have no idea about my talent or skill level (for better or worse). Ha!

  136. okrapod wrote:

    Ummm. It does not look that way to me. I think she/they set him up, pursued him and they are now trying to blackmail him (shake him down) for loads of cash. He, on the other hand, got trapped by his own long journey into fraud and deceit and apparent feelings of invulnerability and how he grew careless with the power of sin (lies) in his own life and walked right into the trap willingly.

    So who set the trap? ‘Satan.’ So who was/were the doofus (doofi?)? Everybody involved.

    Please tell us you are joking?

  137. Brandon wrote:

    Stephen in his video also made claims of an inappropriate relationship that RZ apparantely bought off. What has come of that claim as surely that would break the cone of silence???

    This may have been answered but…there is ore to come.This suit of Zacharias agains the woman was settled out of court. However, I have learned that the woman involved is the woman I spoke with awhile ago and encouraged her to get a lawyer. JA and Steve B will be releasing ore info. I have offered to corroborate the story when the time comes if they want me to do so.

    Let me say this. I believed the woman when I listened to her. I could do nothing about it since she asked for privacy.

  138. Burwell wrote:

    Given that Steve is a self-declared atheist, I find threatening him is an odd way to evangelize.

    Defeat the fiends from the pit of hell approach? SMH.

  139. Jeffrey J Chalmers wrote:

    I have been a professor at one of these “secular humanist” institutions for 30 years, and my Ph.D. was earned. We ensure that real Ph.D. are earned. Honorary degrees, to us academics, are worth the paper they are printed on…. they are purely political documents…

    Thank you for putting in the hard work to get your earned PhD. I wish the Christian crowd would stop taking short cuts.

  140. Ruth Tucker wrote:

    Has Ravi’s upcoming speaking schedule been widely posted so that we can contact schools and organizations ahead of time—asking that his invitation be rescinded?

    I don’t know but I will look into it.

  141. Jeffrey J Chalmers wrote:

    Years ago I was a grad student at a Campus Crusade for Christ retreat. Our guest speaker, who was consider by the host to very “dynamic”, claimed he was a Berkeley “radical” around during the famous times. I had just 5 months earlier graduate from UC Berkeley, so I went up to him after one of his talks thinking he would have interesting stories! When asked/ confronted, he said that he only had taken a “summer class”, and was never really a Berkeley student! While you might fault me for pride, but I am proud to have attended, AND graduated from U C Berkeley and it is VERY dishonest to make it sound that you are “one of us” when you are not…. Given his talk was given ( this retreat) to students from another “big name” University, it was pretty stupid of this “clown” to claim he was from Berkeley….. there is a good chace that others could call him on this…
    Finally, we had a “pick up” football games during the retreat, and this clown was very aggressive, and argumentative with respect callls during the game….he behaved as if we were playing a divsion 1 college game!! Very digusting..

    This is a story that bears repeating. SMH.

  142. Jeffrey J Chalmers wrote:

    I my engineering field, a Ph.D. takes on the order of 4-5 years.. These graduate students are B.S. engineers, that make starting salaries on the order of $70,000 a year with a BS degree… their “stipends” for research or teaching as a grad student can be on the order of $25,000 a year. So, they are losing on the order of $100,000 of lost income to get a Ph.D.. So, to me, good old Ravi is “stealing” something that is worth over $100,000 by claiming he is a “Dr.”….

    Another good point.

  143. @ Jeffrey J Chalmers:
    Both Wycliffe Hall and Oxford University confirmed that RZ was never a visiting scholar or senior lecturer with them. The correspondence can be seen in Steve Baughman’s video.

  144. In adding details and links about the non-profit aspects of Ravi Zacharias International Ministries to the resource section of a post on Spiritual Sounding Board (linked to below), I found that Mr. Zacharias serves on the Board of Reference for ECFA — the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability. As this situation on credentials and lawsuits unfolds, ECFA may want to revisit that status it has accorded him.

    https://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2017/11/30/ravi-zacharias-email-threat-and-ongoing-lack-of-response-about-reportedly-inflated-credentials/

  145. The Man Who Wasn’t Thursday wrote:

    Well, if he was dishonest about one thing, who knows what else he was dishonest about?” I’ve followed him for quite some time, and my personal impression is that he genuinely cares about the people he speaks and writes to, but sometimes has a flair for the theatrical

    So, if someone is a nice guy, he is only slightly dishonest. I believe that chronic lying, which seems to be coming out here, is a problem. As we have seen recently, if a guy is a predator one time, he has been most usually a predator may more times according to stats.

    The Man Who Wasn’t Thursday wrote:

    He is extremely gentle and kind, and cautious of overstepping personal boundaries — unlike the known perpetrators people are comparing him with. Dishonesty is a far cry from abuse —

    I got a phone call one year ago that leads me to believe that he might be willing to step over boundaries? Also, how do you know he is gentle and kind at all times. Did you live with him 24/7? You are judging from a distance.

    I am going to leave it here. Jute Anne’s new post is up.

  146. @ dee:
    It really is an insult to all who that have earned Ph.D. to see these clowns attempt to decieve Joe pew sitter that they have one. It is, plainly speaking, deceit/fraud, and if one attempts to put a price on it, it is equal to theft that is large enough to be classified as a felony.
    So, is it any wonder that other disturbing behavior is coming out?
    I regret not blowing the Whistle more 30 plus years ago when I saw this academic “fraud” going on…. I saw many other things done by “para-church” groups that were dishonest…. more “lying for the Lord”….. but people just wrote me off..

  147. “It is about the disturbing tendency of some people to defend their point of view by attempting to destroy another person.”

  148. The emails are out! This is truly an embarrassing situation for those who believe that Zacharias is just a sweet, gentle man.

    “In an email following many lengthy telephone conversations with you (we have copies of your emails and the call register), [June] informed you of her decision to tell [June’s husband] about this misconduct. You responded by email that you would end your life and “bid this world goodbye” if she confessed and outed you to her husband. You later admitted that this was not true and we have independent confirmation of many of these discussions by an anonymous third party.”

    https://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2017/11/30/ravi-zacharias-must-explain-lawsuit-narratives-and-emails/

  149. Shame on Veritas. They know full well that most of those invitations are from student groups like them.
    Furthermore, Veritas founder Kelly Monroe, knows that Ravi falsely claimed IN HIS MEMOIRS part credit for the idea for Veritas, when the fact is that the organization was underway before they even heard of Ravi Zacharias. (See my http://www.RaviWatch.com).

    So much for “Veritas.”

    @ Jeffrey J Chalmers:

  150. HI JEFFREY. That is not quite accurate. Wycliffe confirms that Ravi was once an senior research fellow with them and that this was an honorary position .

    The problems for Ravi are that:

    1. he routinely failed to disclose that this was honorary
    2. He told a Christian journalist (Apologetics 315) that he uses this credential “in the Academy”
    3. He claims in his memoirs to have been an “official lecturer at Oxford” but the University says that he does not appear in their central database and they don’t believe he ever held a position with them.
    4. Wycliffe says that although Ravi has S poken at their school he has never held a formal position.

    Interestingly, Ravi removed all the Oxford nonsense from his website bio shortly after he learned I was investigating him. He did not wait for me to discover that his Oxford claims were bogus.

    The Oxford claims are some of his most outravenous.

    @ Lowlandseer:

  151. @ dee:

    This looks to me like two people threatening each other. If there are any clean hands and pure hearts hearts in all that I do not see it. Why would she ‘tell her husband’ when that probably would be the last thing on earth that she would want to do-if he in fact did not know what was going on? It looks like a threat to not just tell one man (husband) but a threat to go public. So what would she gain by that? What did she hope to accomplish by that threat? And why would he pull some suicide threat stunt if he were innocent; if he did not fear that she would in fact go public?

    I really can’t find ‘innocence’ anywhere in this scenario. And yes, I think that probably all the lawyers think they have enough to launch some arguments, whether or not they actually do.

  152. okrapod wrote:

    Why would she ‘tell her husband’ when that probably would be the last thing on earth that she would want to do-if he in fact did not know what was going on?

    Because she was feeling guilt, shame, and her marriage was suffering. Cover-ups do no one any good. Coming clean can begin the process of reconciliation and recovery.

    She was only threatening to tell her husband. But she did eventually want to go public. Why? Because he used predatory behavior to use her for his sexual gratification It most likely is not his first rodeo.

  153. Hi, Ravi Zacharias International Ministries! I notice you have one post about this on your Facebook page, but it also looks like you’ve been deleting critical remarks as well. How could I tell? When I see a commenter refer by name to another commenter, that comment isn’t there, but you can tell from the gist of the remaining comment that the deleted comment was critical of Ravi Zacharias, that says volumes. I’m thoroughly unimpressed with your use of the memory hole. Warmest regards, etc., …

  154. Jeffrey J Chalmers wrote:

    It really is an insult to all who that have earned Ph.D. to see these clowns attempt to decieve Joe pew sitter that they have one. It is, plainly speaking, deceit/fraud, and if one attempts to put a price on it, it is equal to theft that is large enough to be classified as a felony.

    Just a short comment to let folks here know there are more than one of us with an earned Ph.D. (Duke U, Physics, 1967) that understand the difference between honorary and earned. Our credibility as Christians depends on being honest, even if we are not seeking celebrity status.

  155. @ Steve Baughman:
    When it comes to MenaGAWD, always assume a doctorate, title, or position is HONORARY until proven otherwise. It’s the only way to be safe. Liars, all liars.

  156. dee wrote:

    I got a phone call one year ago that leads me to believe that he might be willing to step over boundaries? Also, how do you know he is gentle and kind at all times.

    ALL HIS PR SAYS SO!

  157. Steve Baughman wrote:

    The great evangelist threatened suicide in writing in order to convince a married woman not to disclose their affair to her husband.

    After our mother died in ’75, my manipulator brother used Suicide Threat Guilt Manipulation to control the rest of the family. After that experience, I have only one thing to say to a Suicide Threat like that:

    CALL HIS BLUFF.
    If it’s fake, he’ll back down.
    If not, Good Riddance.

  158. sandy c wrote:

    The fact that Ravi and RZIM ministries just spent 24 hrs trying to erase every single “Dr” Zacharias title from their websites is pretty conclusive evidence of something, in my opinion!

    doubleplusungood refs doubleplusundoctorates. memhole.

    As of now, It Never Existed, Comrades.

  159. @ okrapod:

    You have a victim and you have a predator. Nobody would claim pure hearts for either. What actions the victim takes after being victimized are irrelevant. They were the innocent party even though their heart is impure. I really don’t understand the psychology behind waiting years to go public or receiving financial settlements, etc. But neither have I ever been a victim. I doubt any criminal would think of standing before a judge and defending himself by pointing to the darkness in the victim’s heart. The victim is innocent. Cash the settlement check and try to put back together your life of faith.

  160. The Man Who Wasn’t Thursday wrote:

    If these allegations are true, I view it in the way I view Martin Luther King — even if he plagiarized for his thesis, the rest of his work has affected my life profoundly. Does their dishonesty about their academic achievements outweigh the things they actually have achieved, or the countless lives they have touched? I would respond with a resounding “no.”

    I just saw your comment and notice you said it before adultery revelations were disclosed. I havent listened to the man speak but i appreciate your comment and in some cases i do agree, if there wasnt also the extra marital issue i think it could have been brought out into the open and with humility and repentance been dealt with. Also the Lord has taught me things through people that have been exposed as hiding sins in their life and it doesnt mean everything they said was wrong. i just had to re-examine what i learned there to make sure i hadnt gotten deceit mixed with truth into my beliefs.
    Also i am leary of groups that try to nit-pick and find minor fault with christians but i dont believe wartburgwatch is one of those, (of course i dont know for sure) but from following them off and on for years it appears that they are like dogs on a scent and so often when they keep doggedly pursuing something it does end up that it was much worse than first thought.

  161. @ Muslin fka Deana Holmes:

    So much for RZIM being honest….rewriting history is one of the great deceptions…the problem they have is that there has to be a ton of books out there calling him a “Dr”….. and associations that they are rapidly trying to delete…. it reminds me of the before and after pictures of the soviet leaders with Stalin… theyare really funny untill you realize that the person missing was probably tortured to death…. speaking ing of that, we should keep a running total on how many times RZIM claim they are being slandered… it might help if RZIM tries to send lawyers after us!

  162. I have great respect for people who have hotten Ph.Ds. MY best friend got his Ph.D 30 years ago. I went to his dissertation defense and it was probably one of the worst mornings of my life! There were five profs on my friend’s committee. Two were in favor of granting the degree with no changes. Two could be convinced with a change or two. But the last one, OMG, he had done work on country many years ago, before a revolution changed things irrevocably and was dead set against passing the dissertation. So they argued. And I sat on a corner, horrified, praying for my friend, because this was the culmination of 12 years of coursework, fieldwork, surveying and computing, comprehensive exams, and it all came down to this moment.

    Finally we were asked to leave the room while these guys debated the dissertation some more. We could hear them arguing, it didn’t sound good. We were asked to come back on and my friend’s dissertation was passed if he made a couple of changes. WHEW.

    Ironically, the prof who had objected most strenuously invited my friend to lecture at a seminar that night. GO FIGURE.

    Studying for and taking the bar had its moments, but that’s why the JD is a professional degree, not an academic one.

  163. linda wrote:

    Scripture is pretty clear we never should have invented the 1st class 2nd class system known as clergy/laity. Never brought in graven images. Never invented hierarchy. Never taught the tithe as binding on Christians. Never ordained anyone or called any human a spiritual authority or father.

    Hmm. Maybe I’ll toss my stones at my own feet and start cleaning there:)

    Me too, and yes it is!

  164. @ Steve:

    There is not necessarily a victim and a predator every time two people who should know better get to tossing in the hay loft. Now if some employer starts saying put out or get out, that is one thing. But for the life of me I cannot see that automatic dichotomy predator/victim every time some fling goes sour and somebody wants to cast it in that light.

    Obviously, I have no information and IMO nobody else has all the facts, about this current situation, but something does not fit the predator/victim paradigm to me once people start making threats toward each other.

  165. Steve Baughman wrote:

    Wycliffe confirms that Ravi was once an senior research fellow with them and that this was an honorary position .

    The problems for Ravi are that:

    1. he routinely failed to disclose that this was honorary

    It seems worthy to question Wycliffe bestowing an honorary position. Just a proposition, if an organization awards someone an honorary position or doctorate who then misrepresents it, said organization was a poor judge of character. Per-chance they should defer awarding such titles until recipients are advanced in years so as their character is clear.

  166. @ sandy c:
    IMHO, misrepresenting an earned PH.D which costs 4-5 years of your life, and in my field more $100,000 in lost wages is NOT a “little thing”…… it actually makes my blood boil when people try to “sin-level” this…. plagorism is in the same category…. especially in Mark Driscoll’s case when large sums of money in book deals are involved…. it is a classic example of down playing white collar crime……. Pepole would not say this if Ravi robbed a bank for $100,000 !

  167. elastigirl wrote:

    in this case, it takes “the world” (oh, the EVIL SCARY WORLD!) to do the right thing and call out wrong-doing (an understatement). Christian culture stays huddled in its elitist big ego and powerful money-making image-burnishing castles, and its peasants are warmed by the glow of it all.

    There were actually christians calling him out as well, just perhaps not the yugely famous ones…

  168. @ JDV:

    “While it is lamentable and can be discouraging (I’m at a church where leadership is showing some real issues), we ought not let man’s failures unduly impact our faith.”
    +++++++++++++++

    thank you for the encouragement. i’ll take it. but faith in what?

    to clarify, my faith is in God. not the institution, which crosses my philosophical and ethical boundaries.

  169. @ okrapod:

    I agree with you on this. I think it gets a little tricky, though, when the predator (not in the legal sense, although it might be) is clergy/authority figure. I haven’t studied this but believe Julie Ann might be correct in saying there is this grooming period. I agree,too, that we don’t have ALL the facts. But enough of them to be sad and mad.

  170. JDV wrote:

    we ought not let man’s failures unduly impact our faith.

    Our faith in God? My faith in God is in tact. Man’s failures within Christian Institutions have led me to stay away from most, if not all, institutions that call themselves Christian. There is simply too much corruption in Christian institutions.

  171. Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

    During my time in high school in the early Seventies (when I first got interested in girls), some of the things I did out of sheer cluelessness would have gotten me up on stalking or sexual harassment charges if I did them nowadays. And I wasn’t the only one.

    I went through that era also and i was pondering the shock alot of people must have woken up with when the sexual assault claims against the famous broke out, claims of even tush pats being abusive.
    I would say that even though popular culture ok’d it alot of women didnt. Alot of vulnerable men didnt either. I did things back then that could be charged as harrassment also if it were done today.
    What is really profound about it is that some people yell about how God has been removed from schools and workplaces and the US but i see that His law is more openly being called as the standard we should be striving for, (as long as no one calls it that!)
    His law that says what is right and wrong behaviour and His mercy that says we dont get to kill people that are gay, or not following Him perfectly or at all, that lying and demeaning others that are different is wrong, no matter what political party or church affiliation they are.

  172. Steve wrote:

    I think it gets a little tricky, though, when the predator (not in the legal sense, although it might be) is clergy/authority figure.

    I’m curious, besides having a non profit named after himself, a bit odd in itself, what clergy title has this man held and what authority does he have?

  173. Steve wrote:

    Do you think Ravi is actually charging $1200 today to speak on INTEGRITY??!!

    Yes. In fact, “Mr.” Zacharias is charging $1300 per attendee at a business leaders conference being held today at his Zacharias Institute to address “Why does integrity matter in business?”.

    “Ravi Zacharias will speak on how to stand against cultural opposition in his talk “Paul in Caesar’s Court”” http://rzim.org/business-leaders-conference/

  174. okrapod wrote:

    This looks to me like two people threatening each other. If there are any clean hands and pure hearts hearts in all that I do not see it.

    Nor I. And I’m glad somebody had the guts to say so. I’ll heartily agree that there is a genuine ‘power differential’ when little kids are involved and criminally abused.
    But these are grown women and it really does take two to Tango.
    In my opinion, attempts to absolve them of any and all culpability fall flat.

  175. @ sandy c:

    you are right — and i know, too, that there are some christian people who are amongst the most excellent human beings on earth.

    they are not the public face of my religion, however. i no longer refer to myself as “christian” because of the reaction i get from people. despite the pure namesake, the word has an earned meaning of hypocrisy, corruption, & foolish moron, thanks to too many christian leaders and those easily led.

    i can no longer stomach the internal compromise i feel.

  176. @ JDV:

    “Jesus spent much of His ministry straightening out what were God’s chosen people, meant to be those bearing God’s glory to the rest of the world.”
    +++++++++++

    hi, JDV. Since you’re here, could you explain what God’s glory is, what it means to bear it, why does it matter, and is there anything practical about it? honest questions, no loaded-ness intended.

    (my brain can no longer compute christianese words, and I find things that aren’t useful on a practical level to be a waste of energy and time)

  177. Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

    As of now, It Never Existed, Comrades.

    Lol if it was online before its ‘cache’ still.
    Many people think that erasing things they once posted online is the equivelant of burning old love letters…thats not the case. I had a friend that was looking into the disapearance of a 7yr old and she was able to retrieve old online conversations and posts that a person of interest had written in previous year. “Nothing is hidden that wont be brought to light” is kinda scary now and i used to think it only meant in the next life!

  178. I am not sure it is correct to call Ravi Zacharias “clergy.” He is a “licensed evangist ” for the Christian and missionary alliance. But I do not think he has any minister position.

    @ Max:

  179. OldJohnJ wrote:

    ust a short comment to let folks here know there are more than one of us with an earned Ph.D. (Duke U, Physics, 1967) that understand the difference between honorary and earned. Our credibility as Christians depends on being honest, even if we are not seeking celebrity status.

    Well…you are celebrities to me!!

  180. Steve wrote:

    You have a victim and you have a predator. Nobody would claim pure hearts for either. What actions the victim takes after being victimized are irrelevant. They were the innocent party even though their heart is impure.

    I dont totally agree with you on this Steve. I have been abused and also i have been suckered into a relationship i have also had a sinful relationship that wasnt abuse or me being suckered into that i knew i shouldnt have gotten into but did anyway. It isnt good to make broad generalizations on things like this in my opinion. There is the difference of adults/children, naive or not, level of vulnerability etc, motive for going public that vary in each circumstance. I think it is important to look at all of that. ‘Predator’ is also a serious charge and a consensual affair between two adults, even if one is famous/powerful is not always abusive.
    The reason i follow wartburg and julie anne and another blogger is that they take into consideration all of these variables before posting and they have seasoned experience to be able to discern motives. Just like everyone else they also are fallible so its good to have others question things and they are open to that which is another sign of credibility in my view.
    The thing that leads me to believe this woman involved with Ravi is she said in her email that she was in a vulnerable place when she first contacted him and was used by him because of that. Also that he threatened to sue her but then dropped that suit and instead settled her original complaint with a non disclosure agreement.
    But as okrapod brought up it could be that he threatened suicide because he would be ruined even if the allegations were untrue.
    If he hadnt been so deceitful about other things so frequently (the Dr Ishy) and hadnt rushed to erase instead of addressing those issues i might have looked at her motives in a different light also.
    With all of that and Doc NadaDoc Julie Annes proffessional opinion i can reasonably conclude she is being honest, but not because of black and white thinking of victims/predators.

  181. Steve wrote:

    I doubt any criminal would think of standing before a judge and defending himself by pointing to the darkness in the victim’s heart.

    Wow, follow Wartburg for awhile- thats been the standard defense in both the world and those predators in the church for EONS!!

  182. To illustrate how RZ exaggerates, consider the following.

    In an interview published on his website, he claims his great grandfather translated the first Malayalam-English dictionary. (http://rzim.org/just-thinking/on-leadership-and-calling-an-interview-with-ravi-zacharias/).

    But they didn’t. His great-grandfather did publish a Malayalam-English dictionary in 1907, and at the end of the preface, he acknowledged that he had consulted a number of works, including

    “7. Dr. H. Grundert’s Malayalam-English Dictionary,” (https://archive.org/stream/englishmalayalam00tobirich/englishmalayalam00tobirich_djvu.txt)

    That Gundert was first is corroborated by the Rev Samuel Mateer in his book “Native Life in Travancore”

    (https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=hX78BQAAQBAJ&pg=PA7&lpg=PA7&dq=“tobias+zacharias”+tellicherry&source=bl&ots=cQpF8lQeFm&sig=9RaZTIMn_lO6_e2_ZwDpetE6RDY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjKsq3OuunXAhVN-qQKHXGMC7sQ6AEITjAK#v=onepage&q=“tobias%20zacharias”%20tellicherry&f=false)

  183. Steve wrote:

    He’s “licensed and ordained” by The Christian Missionary Alliance Church

    Wondering if he has ever led a congregation?

    Also wondering if the woman worked for the non profit Ravi led?

  184. Jeffrey J Chalmers wrote:

    IMHO, misrepresenting an earned PH.D which costs 4-5 years of your life, and in my field more $100,000 in lost wages is NOT a “little thing”…… it actually makes my blood boil when people try to “sin-level” this…

    I didnt mean to “sin level” this and i should have clarified my remarks but i feared it would offend people here that have PHd’s in religious studies. It probably will but there isnt enough room here for me to fully explain my views and my posts are too lengthy already. I view accademic degrees in other fields with a great deal of respect and recognize the degree of work necessary to get them. Except for arguing theology and past theologists views i dont see the same importance in fields of religion. When i am viewing the credibility of a scientist etc i do care if they have a Dr. When i am viewing the credibility of a religious ‘authority’ i dont take their proffessional credentials as proof of anything and actually (which i know is probably wrong) it makes me think them possibly less of an ‘authority’
    on things of the Spirit of God.
    John 7:15 Acts 4:13 Gal 1:15-18 1Cor 1:17 & 1:21
    Fire away- i am ducking!

  185. I saw this the other day & hoped you’d cover it…I am not disappointed. Although I am in Ravi Z, very much so. Two of my friends have PHDs from, & teach/lecture, at Cambridge University in different positions & the amount of sheer graft that has gone into their Doctorates – which have then been published – has been massive. It’s ridiculous to claim an Honorary title as being the same, why would anyone think all this fluffing up of various academic ‘links’ is needed when if your work is good enough then no-one cares about that?

    I’m also hoping you’re going to cover the #churchtoo & the asinine pastors who have come out & said that being honest about sexual abuse in the church was slandering the Bride of Christ.

  186. elastigirl wrote:

    no longer refer to myself as “christian” because of the reaction i get from people. despite the pure namesake, the word has an earned meaning of hypocrisy, corruption, & foolish moron, thanks to too many christian leaders and those easily led.

    i can no longer stomach the internal compromise i feel.

    I agree totally and i also rarely use ‘christian’ except if someone asks if i am and then i says yes and give the disclaimer ‘but not like…’ its sad to see what the word christian has come to mean.

  187. @ sandy c:

    Sandy, I didn’t articulate my thoughts very accurately. I’m posting between doing root canals :-). I agree that I may have misused the word predator. I’ll have to defer to the experts on that. I guess the bottom line for me is that this whole story is disgusting. The Christian Celebrities are making it very difficult to be their apologists. I do apologize for the sloppy language previously. And maybe currently :-).

  188. @ dee:

    I have also been to Norcross, GA and interacted face to face with RZIM through conferences and other correspondence, and have read/watched most of Zacharias’s material.

    I have to say, I have also had to deal my entire life with predators and deceptive or borderline psychopaths that very nearly destroyed my family, and what I have read and seen does not lead me to believe Zacharias displays similarities to that ilk.

    It’s true, I can’t be certain he is 24/7 kind — no one can make that claim even for themselves. But unless he has multiple personality disorder (trust me, I’ve had to put up with that for a while in people very dear to me) or bipolarism, or is just a superlative actor and liar (had my fair share of that as well), I am understandably hesitant to accept the accusations against him. If they are actually true, then I have no choice but to accept them; and I freely admit I find it very disturbing indeed.

    But to me it does not add up, and I will not condemn him until I am compelled beyond reasonable doubt. I do not make any judgements on the purported victim’s testimony — quite frankly, it is, as I said disturbing, and it seems nearly compelling — aside from stylistic inconsistencies in the writing given that they are a little simplistic, being supposed to have come from an otherwise eloquent communicator (which does not negate them, but seems strange to me) —
    but I hope the truth will come out no matter what.

    But the thing I find a little troubling sometimes is when sheep turn into sharks at the first drop of blood. I hope I have not contributed to the feeding frenzy on other posts (and if I have, I profusely apologize, it is very easy to do), but the reason I must disagree with the general current of this discussion is that I have seen nothing but good come from Zacharias, and am a little put off by the comparisons to authors whose work is blatantly abusive, or who truly do exhibit a history of predatory behavior — something which, aside from these email allegations and the phone call you brought up, I have not seen in RZIM. By the way (I am genuinely interested), was that phone call directed to you personally, or did somebody else report it to you? I would be more inclined to believe the allegations if the credibility of the sources could be firmly established. I realize that unfortunately puts real victims in a disadvantage — I’ve been there myself — but for for the sake of truth, I’m going to suspend judgement until honesty requires. I’ve seen other people important in my own life, and in some cases quite close to me, suffer because of unjust allegations — even though those allegations were false, they were prima facie airtight and apparently insurmountable — accept that they were false, and eventually the truth came out.

    In any case I sincerely hope the full truth comes out on this, because RZIM has made a huge impact on my life. There are two things I want to avoid: 1. If the allegations are false, I don’t want to have to later repent of viciousness in false condemnation, and 2. If the allegations are true, I don’t want to support an abusive adulterer, and distance myself from what has otherwise been such an enrichment on my life.

    To me, both pits are odious. I hope the truth comes out crystal clear, and I trust that it eventually will.

  189. @ Steve:

    “…I’m posting between doing root canals…”
    ++++++++++++++++++++

    ha! sometimes the backstory is just as interesting!

  190. sandy c wrote:

    The Man Who Wasn’t Thursday wrote:

    If these allegations are true, I view it in the way I view Martin Luther King — even if he plagiarized for his thesis, the rest of his work has affected my life profoundly. Does their dishonesty about their academic achievements outweigh the things they actually have achieved, or the countless lives they have touched? I would respond with a resounding “no.”

    I just saw your comment and notice you said it before adultery revelations were disclosed. I havent listened to the man speak but i appreciate your comment and in some cases i do agree, if there wasnt also the extra marital issue i think it could have been brought out into the open and with humility and repentance been dealt with. Also the Lord has taught me things through people that have been exposed as hiding sins in their life and it doesnt mean everything they said was wrong. i just had to re-examine what i learned there to make sure i hadnt gotten deceit mixed with truth into my beliefs.
    Also i am leary of groups that try to nit-pick and find minor fault with christians but i dont believe wartburgwatch is one of those, (of course i dont know for sure) but from following them off and on for years it appears that they are like dogs on a scent and so often when they keep doggedly pursuing something it does end up that it was much worse than first thought.

    Thanks for the feedback — you’re right, I posted that comment long before the email stuff, when it was still just academic. But for some reason my comments almost always get delayed, in many cases by 8 or more hours (sometimes nearly a full day), I’m not sure why — might be the time zone. But it means my comments are sometimes a little behind the curve, and in this case almost led to a potentially serious confusion…

    If you are interested in hearing Zacharias speak — though no doubt now you will probably hear him with a more suspicious ear than otherwise — his message “The Uniqueness of Christ” on YouTube is both a moving exposition on the uniqueness of Christ (there was really no better way to say it than the title ) as well as a perfect demonstration of his speaking style. In any case, I think everyone would agree he is a powerful orator — which can be a dangerous gift, but in this case was a profound blessing to me. If you do watch it, I just hope you watch it with an honest eye and ear.

    Regardless of whether or not he’s a fraud, the message itself is beautiful – much as Calvin has a beautiful and moving definition of faith, even though the rest if his teaching totally destroys its beauty.

    If it turns out Zacharias is, in fact, a fraud, then I’ll still cherish the things I’ve learned from him. Truth is truth, even from the lips of liars.

  191. @ sandy c:
    No punches from me….In general, I agree… Why is RZ, and other of his ilk are “desperate” to have academic credibilty when they typically rail against it …

  192. okrapod wrote:

    Steve wrote:

    I’m posting between doing root canals :-).

    Are you the patient or the endodontist?

    Hehe exellent example of what i was trying to say earlier about rushing to judgement without enough facts. I felt really bad for Steve when he posted because i assumed he was getting root canals but actually he may be giving them!

  193. @ Steve:
    No apology necessary i was only trying to say that it is indeed good to consider all sides of an issue.
    Often when one victim is brave enough to come forward others feel safe enough to also disclose what happened to them and that is what will show predation patterns i think. I also will leave that to the experts though.
    I dont speak christianese but dont apologize for the apologetics of the Apologetic Deptartment of the christian industrial complex- it might lend them credibility lol

  194. @ Jeffrey J Chalmers:
    Recently i read a book called ‘protestants’ by erik reyire (something name i cant remember how its spelled)
    That was an instance where i did check his credentials and degrees and they did matter to me but i wasnt reading it to get more knowledge of Jesus or God or to improve my walk or faith. I read it to understand more about the history of protestant religion and primarily for geography insight and also because i figured it would help me understand what on earth christians were saying when they talk about schisms and calvanism and lutherism and i still think all those issues that they had can be addressed in simple terms without all the labels and religious terms.

  195. Steve wrote:

    I’m posting between doing root canals :-).

    Are you a dentist? Good for you. My awesome son in law is a dentist and he has been helping me with a new project I will be talking about in the next week dealing with medical care for human trafficking victims. You might find what I am doing of interest to you.

  196. The Man Who Wasn’t Thursday wrote:

    I’ve seen other people important in my own life, and in some cases quite close to me, suffer because of unjust allegations

    Unjust accusations are not the issue in this post. This is simple *did he or didn’t he* stuff. He does not have an earned doctorate. He did not do some thing he said he did. I think we will learn that there is much more that he claimed he did that he didn’t.

    The Man Who Wasn’t Thursday wrote:

    RZIM has made a huge impact on my life.

    Remember, it is not RZ who had the impact. It was God’s truth speaking out to you from an imperfect vessel.

    The Man Who Wasn’t Thursday wrote:

    I have also been to Norcross, GA and interacted face to face with RZIM through conferences and other correspondence, and have read/watched most of Zacharias’s material.

    Sadly, people with personality disorders can be quite charming and convincing. When the pedophile at my former church was exposed, people were in shock. They *knew* him. They took him on vacations. The unaffected kids thought he was cool. However, my son and a couple of others thought he was weird.

    When he was exposed, there were some mothers who wanted him not to go to jail but to stay at the church and receive counsel there. That is how convinced they were that he was not some sort of pervert. Yet, he was.

    I once had a pastor at the former church (who is on the TGC counsel)tell me that most pastors just like to embellish. What happened? One of the associate pastors was giving a sermon and discussed a *true* story that he claimed to have been personally told. I happened to have heard about that *true story* on Snopes. So, it sent him a note and said he was telling an untrue story (It had been the winner of a fiction contest a few decades previously.)

    So, about 3 months later, he once again preached (the same sermon mind you at a different worship time.) He came to the *true story part* I saw him hesitate and then, darn it, told the story again!!

    I went to the lead pastor. He blew it off. He said pastors do it all the time. I rejoindered, “Do what? Lie?” He was not amused. He then looked sternly at me and said “Well, you should know I will have to tell him about this?” I guess he thought I would say “Don’t bother.” I said “Good Maybe he will know people are really listening.” I wonder if he ever did tell him. I suspect not.

  197. The Man Who Wasn’t Thursday wrote:

    If it turns out Zacharias is, in fact, a fraud, then I’ll still cherish the things I’ve learned from him. Truth is truth, even from the lips of liars.

    Agreed. If something is true, it’s true, and where it comes from has no bearing on its truth claim whatsoever. I greatly enjoyed Zacharias’s talk on morality, it’s origin, and its universal appeal regardless of faith or no faith.

  198. dee wrote:

    he once again preached (the same sermon mind you at a different worship time.)

    Most “preachers” only have about 25 sermons. They keep dragging them out of the file year after year and alter them a bit to fool the pew. In 60+ years of church life, I’ve heard just about all the canned ones which preachers borrow from each other. Perhaps, someday, we will have men of God who shut themselves up in a prayer closet each week to get a fresh word from God, rather than rehashing the old stuff.

  199. Let me be a tad sarcastic here on one of my recurrent issues. Thank God for the Billy Graham rule or else we might have seen BG go down in flames too. I am assuming, of course, that BG never crossed the sexual morality line, but we can assume that because of his practice of the BG rule-protected himself from himself and others from that particular human frailty and from any suspicions that might have arisen due to his celebrity status also. And got to admit that Billy was up front about his lack of certain degrees and credentials also.

    In the meantime the real victims here are those who trusted and admired RZ-and that trust was twice betrayed in both the claims of degrees not granted and the issue with the woman at this time. I can’t work up much angst about the principal characters in this drama seeing the harm done to so many whose lives were affected by his ministry.

  200. Beakerj wrote:

    I’m also hoping you’re going to cover the #churchtoo & the asinine pastors who have come out & said that being honest about sexual abuse in the church was slandering the Bride of Christ.

    I second this!

    Says “the Dr Ishy”! (hehehe thanks Sandy! That gave me a laugh!)

  201. Although, I guess I have over 100 hours grad school credits. So I guess I’m more qualified that Mr. Zacharias, at the least. Though I don’t think all that grad school has done one whit of making me a better person or improving my life.

  202. elastigirl wrote:

    @ JDV:
    “Jesus spent much of His ministry straightening out what were God’s chosen people, meant to be those bearing God’s glory to the rest of the world.”
    +++++++++++
    hi, JDV. Since you’re here, could you explain what God’s glory is, what it means to bear it, why does it matter, and is there anything practical about it? honest questions, no loaded-ness intended.
    (my brain can no longer compute christianese words, and I find things that aren’t useful on a practical level to be a waste of energy and time)

    In Exodus 19, God speaks of His intent that Israel be a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. Genesis 12 speaks of God’s blessing Abram, that he and his seed may be a blessing to the nations. The Temple is spoken of as a house of prayer for all the nations. Israel was thus called to bear God’s glory to the nations, but repeatedly failed there by disobeying God’s covenant with it.

    It remained important to be prioritized and upheld, but the failure of Israel to do so, while grievous and destructive, was nevertheless something that God called His people time and again to repent of. Even as the nation marched towards the Babylonian captivity, there were still those who lamented the hardening of hearts and the hypocrisy, yet still sought to do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly before God. Even during the exile, in extremely challenging circumstances, Daniel and the three who refused to bow trusted God, no matter the absence of abundant examples of faithfulness outside of themselves.

  203. elastigirl wrote:

    @ JDV:
    “While it is lamentable and can be discouraging (I’m at a church where leadership is showing some real issues), we ought not let man’s failures unduly impact our faith.”
    +++++++++++++++
    thank you for the encouragement. i’ll take it. but faith in what?
    to clarify, my faith is in God. not the institution, which crosses my philosophical and ethical boundaries.

    Yep, definitely faith in God, not man-made constructs, and definitely not what is the more and more apt term of the ‘Christian’-Industrial Complex.

  204. dee wrote:

    Hi Muff! Merry Christmas season to you!! Never forget-we love you!

    Thanx dee! Potter’s a renegade that only a Reverend Mother could love.

  205. @ JDV:

    “God’s blessing Abram, that he and his seed may be a blessing to the nations. The Temple is spoken of as a house of prayer for all the nations. Israel was thus called to bear God’s glory to the nations, but repeatedly failed there by disobeying God’s covenant with it.”
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    1. a blessing to the nations / a house of prayer for all nations — a house of prayer for all nations sure sounds good. but to what end? how are all nations benefitting from this on a practical level?

    2. what exactly is God’s glory and how does one bear it to the nations?

    the words “God’s glory” are thrown around so much in christianville these days — they are used passive aggressively, as lofty magic words to put down ideological opponents and give the impression of gaining the advantage in an argument.

    however, i’m certain most people haven’t a clue what they’re talking about but are mindlessly parrotting what they hear.

    you, on other other hand, strike me as a thoughtful person who has thought this through. if “God’s glory” and what we do with it is so key, as seems to be nowadays, i would hope there is a true working definition for it all.

    (i’m beginning to have my doubts, though)

  206. elastigirl wrote:

    however, i’m certain most people haven’t a clue what they’re talking about but are mindlessly parrotting what they hear.

    you, on other other hand, strike me as a thoughtful person who has thought this through. if “God’s glory” and what we do with it is so key, as seems to be nowadays, i would hope there is a true working definition for it all.

    (i’m beginning to have my doubts, though)

    I Cor. 10:31 Whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.

    Even orange juice (and your multi-vitamins) should be consumed for the magnificence of someone other than yourself.

    https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/how-to-drink-orange-juice-to-the-glory-of-god

  207. @ kin:

    so the glory of God is “magnificence”?

    i’m at a loss for how drinking my grapefruit juice (orange juice is too thick… blah!) and the magnificence of God go together.

    IS THERE A PRACTICAL CHRISTIAN IN THE HOUSE?!?!?

  208. elastigirl wrote:

    i’m at a loss for how drinking my grapefruit juice (orange juice is too thick… blah!) and the magnificence of God go together.

    IS THERE A PRACTICAL CHRISTIAN IN THE HOUSE?!?!?

    I used to think God’s glory had something to do with his moral perfection and his ultimate power. Now I am starting to believe that it is his humble, self-giving, other-centered, radical love. Heb 1:3 says Jesus is the radiance of God’s glory, and it seems like this type of love is what radiates from Jesus.

    As for Piper’s teaching on orange juice, it is solid proof that he has been like this for more than 31 years.

  209. ___

    Q, “Is the Doctrine of ‘Total Calvinism’ Biblical?”

    hmmm…

    Forget the Orange Juice drama, (1) Once again, 16th century John Calvin filled his primary document “Institutes Of The Christian Religion” (2) from 4th century theologian Augustine’s corrupt writings.

    This effect justified Calvin’s killing of many people for their religious convictions.

    HIs followers filled their churches with John Calvin’s errors.

    His followers like John Piper, for example continue to this day.

    John Calvin taught his followers to utilize his form of weaponized Christianity.

    The [distilled] five points of Calvinism, i.e. the doctrines of grace, and the use of the weapon word ‘sin’ are simply two examples.

    People like Piper who push Calvinism should be avoided at all cost.

    Sooner or later they will infect you with their false religious doctrines which amount to nothing more than a weaponized form of Biblical Scripture.

    Certainly NOT a good thing.

    —> You decide.

    Please consult you bible for details. (No academic degree required)

    (snicker)

    ATB

    Le Sòpy, (distinguished visiting TWW scholar) hahahahahahaha
    ___
    (1) https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/how-to-drink-orange-juice-to-the-glory-of-god

    (2) http://www.ntslibrary.com/PDF%20Books/Calvin%20Institutes%20of%20Christian%20Religion.pdf

    😉

  210. Ken F (aka Tweed) wrote:

    As for Piper’s teaching on orange juice, it is solid proof that he has been like this for more than 31 years.

    And it’s solid proof referencing his thoughts continually soothes people’s souls around here. I’m just stirring the pot. 🙂

  211. kin wrote:

    I’m just stirring the pot.

    And I’m just stirring my tea. Noel just brought it up 2 flights of stairs to help support my leadership as head leader of the house as I study hedonism for the glory of God. But really, no matter who is the scoundrel of the week, it always DOES seem to be MY thoughts which sooth people’s souls around here.
    But if I do say so myself, as inane and even dangerous as my thoughts are, there’s only one Christian celebrity about whom I’d really be shocked to hear of some sex scandal, and that’s me.
    Love, Doctor John, ThD
    (Yes, I did earn a real doctorate, but you won’t see my fans calling me Doc.)

  212. @ Ken F (aka Tweed):

    thanks. it’s as viable an explanation as anything else.

    i do have my thoughts on what it means:

    i think the ancient writers used “glory” as a go-to word to describe something incomprehensible but which evoked feelings of awe and reverence, where God was concerned. i think they even used the words to stir their audience up, for persuasion.

    i believe the source of these feelings (whether directly experienced or vicariously through oral tradition) were events which were out-of-this-world and which involved manifestations of supernatural ‘electricity’

    but i doubt popular users of the words “God’s glory” have that in mind when they choose those words. (even through they, too, use the words for persuasion)

    i’m just really, really curious what many people nowadays are thinking when they use those words, what they mean by them. is it as i suspect? nothing at all, other than “i win”? because it seems like john piper and tim keller win when they use those words?

  213. @ Steve Baughman:
    I noticed his lawyers stated repeatedly that he’s not a pastor or counselor of any sort– I suppose to emphasize the consensual nature of whatever happened as opposed to an abused position of trust. Then there’s the odd statement “Little did I know that was the most dark and accursed day of my life.” One has to wonder– the day she called it off? The day they met?

  214. elastigirl wrote:

    i’m just really, really curious what many people nowadays are thinking when they use those words, what they mean by them.

    This applies to a lot of christian lingo. Your question was very good – it made me think. It’s now making me think that we probably need something like a glossary for the rest of the lingo. For example, what is God’s holiness? I used to think it was his moral perfection. Now I’m thinking it’s more related to the loving relationship among the Trinity from all eternity. We pea-brain humans can fairly easily comprehend moral perfection. But we have a much harder time understanding (let alone living) the type of Love that Jesus taught.

  215. Dave A A wrote:

    Then there’s the odd statement “Little did I know that was the most dark and accursed day of my life.” One has to wonder– the day she called it off? The day they met?

    Be careful about reading too much into statements like this. It could also refer to a particular event that could have happened anywhere in between the day they met and the day they called it off. Speculation can be both titillating and incorrect.

  216. @ Steve Baughman:

    Thanks, Steve. I was unfamiliar with the specifics. Do you know if these two ever met up, or was this some strange cyber thing (whatever that means).

  217. Sòpwith wrote:

    Le Sòpy, (distinguished visiting TWW scholar) hahahahahahaha

    Lol thank you for that explanation, it made sense to me. Especially weaponized- either figuratively to club people over the head with scripture or literally. I went to church like that for several years, please pray Jesus will get all the bad doctrine out of me completely.

  218. Pastor John wrote:

    (Yes, I did earn a real doctorate, but you won’t see my fans calling me Doc.)

    Oh Doctor! I would really appreciate if you would give opinion on Trinity U, and explain the difference between honorary and actual earned degrees, i was trying to figure that out on the next thread here- RZ scandal etc
    Is it customary for people to use “Dr” if its just an honorary degree, or is that unethical in your opinion? Thanks, i figured there was probably a pedigreed theologist here and i was hoping they would explain some of things that are way over my head!

  219. @ sandy c:
    @ sandy c:
    Sandy,
    I have been a Professor at a large state university for 30 years, and I have been the primary advisory of 29 students that have received EARNED Ph.D. under my direction. I have been on to many to count Ph.D. committees for students primary advised by my academic colleagues. While I can use the “title” “Dr.”, I almost never do, and at work I will sometimes use the title “Professor”. The vast majority of my peer reviewed, scholarly publications do not list my degree, or call me “professor’… it is assumed.

    In the academic world, there is NO place for a honorary “Dr”… it is MEANINGLESS in an academic setting, it is considered purely a “political” award given to some “big shot” when they give a graduation speech, and/or give a bunch of money. Anyone that thinks otherwise is just showing their ignorance of the academic world.

    It should also be noted that no distinction is typically made in what discipline the Ph.D. was earned. So, when I see a Ph.D., I do not know in what field the Ph.D. was earned, unless it is specifically listed, or I investigate. So, when I saw Ravi Zacharais being “sold to us” as a “Dr.” at the Veritas Forum at my large, secular, State University over 20 years ago, I assumed he had a EARNED Ph.D. Silly me, I should have investigated it myself, given I was associated with that Veritas Forum. And equally important, any student or faculty at any major academic institution would assume the same thing. I am thankful that my non-believing colleagues did not learn this, and realize I was associated with it.. Professor Dawkins, the aggressive, atheistic biology professor, who has debated RZ, is having a field day over this deceit of implying RZ has a EARNED Ph.D.

  220. Steve Baughman wrote:

    Yes, they met twice but never alone. He gave her his blackberry to communicate more “securely.”

    Can you link to reference specificly about his blackberry as i have never read anything in court docs or emails about that. Also i notice you have an email that others didnt have and i was wondering your source. Also i am just curious why you have spent 2 yrs on this guy as opposed to any other christian celebrities. Thanks steve

  221. Jeffrey J Chalmers wrote:

    In the academic world, there is NO place for a honorary “Dr”… it is MEANINGLESS in an academic setting, it is considered purely a “political” award given to some “big shot” when they give a graduation speech, and/or give a bunch of money. Anyone that thinks otherwise is just showing their ignorance of the academic world.

    Respectfully i still point out that it is and has been different in religious ministries. Neither Dr Billy Graham or millions of his viewers ever took issue with his using the honorary title.

  222. @ sandy c:
    Any Billy Graham should have been called on it… especially if he gave an address at a secular university…

  223. Has everyone seen the total white wash in Christianity Today? As I expected, they let Ravi off the hook.

    “Mr. Zacharias, did you or did you not threaten suicide in order to pressure Ms. Thompson not to tell her husband about your affair?”

    Never asked for that. This is what I was talking about with my article about the “code of silence” with the Christian Industrial Complex.

  224. Steve Baughman wrote:

    Has everyone seen the total white wash in Christianity Today? As I expected, they let Ravi off the hook.

    This whole thing is fishy. I don’t trust your motives any more than I trust the Christian Industrial Complex. Maybe the truth will eventually come out. In the mean time we pretty much have a lot of speculation and a few people saying “trust me.” I don’t know who to believe right now because I can see plausible explanations for both extremes and everything in between.

  225. ___

    Carrying On: “Rising Above The Spiritual Noise & Confusion, Perhaps?”

    hmmm…

    Sandy C.,
    hey,

    Sure, I’ll ask the Holy Spirit to help you with a sip or two of His V-Eight!

    YaHooooo!

    Additionally if you are game…, a good spiritual detox would start with memorizing the words in red including the book of revelations, then a good solid and consistent read of the book of Psalms, being reminded that we are what we consume…

    huh?

    —> “Kind Folk shall not live by spiritual junk food alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of Almighty God…”

    SKreeeeeeeeeeeeetch!

    “We consume therefore we live accordingly…”

    *

    “If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means I don’t know…” (1)

    ATB

    Sòpy
    ___
    John 6:53 – 6:56
    (1) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wqaPYoUcQBs

    😉

    – –

  226. Steve Baughman wrote:

    Never asked for that. This is what I was talking about with my article about the “code of silence” with the Christian Industrial Complex.

    Not sure if its a “code of silence” or covering of grace. Peter walked with Jesus for 3 yrs, was filled with the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost and preached a sermon where 3000 people came to a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Then a while later the Apostle Paul called him out on some sin he was still doing. God isnt Fair, if He treated us fairly no one would be saved. God is just and there is penalty for sin. Jesus died for the sins of the world and anyone that asks Him to forgive them receives it. But yeah, its not “fair” that some people get held to perfect accountability and others dont, however it usually is dependant on whether or not they repent and ask for forgiveness.

  227. Sòpwith wrote:

    “Kind Folk shall not live by spiritual junk food alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of Almighty God…”

    Thanks!!

  228. Dave A A wrote:

    I noticed his lawyers stated repeatedly that he’s not a pastor or counselor of any sort– I suppose to emphasize the consensual nature of whatever happened as opposed to an abused position of trust.

    Definitely. They were clear to say in the court docs that he was not her counselor. That’s hogwash. He was like a father figure to her and she told him a lot.

  229. From the RZIM web site:
    The veracity of some of the educational credentials—specifically the use of the “doctorate” designation—of our Founder and President, Ravi Zacharias, have been called into question. While Ravi personally does not brandish his credentials and routinely asks not to be referred to as “Dr. Zacharias”—even by employees—our organization bears his name and, as such, we would like to take this opportunity to clear up any misunderstanding.

    Neither Ravi Zacharias nor Ravi Zacharias International Ministries (RZIM) has ever knowingly misstated or misrepresented Ravi’s credentials. When it has been brought to our attention that something was stated incorrectly with regard to Ravi’s background, we have made every effort to correct it. Sometimes other entities—such as publishers or institutions where Ravi was speaking—have incorrectly presented aspects of his credentials. We were not aware of these errors when they were made; however, in some instances RZIM should have caught them and sought to have them corrected. We regret any and all errors, as well as any doubt or distraction they may have caused.

    Now, if I click on the “RZIM International Board of Directors”
    one of the members is a “Dr. Ravi Zacharais”… and it does not say “honorary”….

  230. kin wrote:

    Even orange juice (and your multi-vitamins) should be consumed for the magnificence of someone other than yourself.

    That sounds like a guy whose nose is so browned you’ll need a proctologist to pull him out of The One Being Glorified. (As well as VERY uncomfortable for The One Being Glorified…)

    Or somebody who’s gone mental and won’t admit to it.

  231. Steve wrote:

    I doubt any criminal would think of standing before a judge and defending himself by pointing to the darkness in the victim’s heart.

    Judge Tim?
    Anyone ever tried that shtick in your courtroom?

  232. Jeffrey J Chalmers wrote:

    . We were not aware of these errors when they were made; however, in some instances RZIM should have caught them and sought to have them corrected. We regret any and all errors, as well as any doubt or distraction they may have caused.

    Now, if I click on the “RZIM International Board of Directors”
    one of the members is a “Dr. Ravi Zacharais”… and it does not say “honorary”….

    “Yeah but we just made a legal disclaimer so it doesnt matter lol”

    you just pointed out either they dont have enough erasers or they have no actual repentance… That is sad. Im not shocked by sin in the religious world…i am shocked by the lack of repentance and blatent disregard of ethical behaviour though.

  233. What plausible account can you think of for Ravi not denying the suicide threat? And for not addressing the bogus Oxford credential claim? And for ignoring about the bogus alliance theological seminary credential alligation? Etc. etc. , after promising that he would?

    And what reasons do you have for questioning my motives?

    I mean, you’re entitled to sit on the fence, but that sure is an odd place to be given the state of the evidence.

    @ Ken F (aka Tweed):

  234. Again, folks. DO NOT TALENTHE BAIT. Robbie is very expensive PR team wants you to be focusing on the “Dr. Zacharias” issue. They are trying to clean up their act and they regret the “oversight.”

    Strawman. That is just a diversion from the suicide threats that he has clearly made in writing and that he has refused to comment on.

    If you did “nothing inappropriate” with Ms. June, why did he call her threat to confessed to her husband my “darkest and most accursed day”? And why did he threaten suicide when she said she was going to confess it to her husband?

    People who have done “nothing inappropriate” aren’t that freaked out by a potential confession.

    And why has Christianity Today and the Christian Post not commented on his refusal to answer the question?

    Please please please, forget about the “Dr. Zacharias” thing. It’s like wondering about Ted Bundy’s traffic tickets.

  235. Steve Baughman wrote:

    And what reasons do you have for questioning my motives?

    Um because, no disrespect intended, you come across kind of condescending and arrogant sometimes when you post here. I sometimes do too but im not as new as you and i think posters can tell i am trying to be inquisitive instead of telling them what to do. If you stick around we could get to see what your intentions are as well. Alot of people fly in here frequently with “breaking news” and have had ulterior motives in the past so please dont take it personally if posters seem to have their guard up.

  236. Ken F (aka Tweed) wrote:

    Dave A A wrote:
    Then there’s the odd statement “Little did I know that was the most dark and accursed day of my life.” One has to wonder– the day she called it off? The day they met?
    Be careful about reading too much into statements like this. It could also refer to a particular event that could have happened anywhere in between the day they met and the day they called it off. Speculation can be both titillating and incorrect.

    I won’t worry much about this one– we weren’t shown the previous email where Mrs T must have mentioned that day. The big takeaway is– is such an email exchange what we’d expect where the man has been victimized by a stalker and extortioner? Absolutely not.

  237. Julie Anne wrote:

    They were clear to say in the court docs that he was not her counselor. That’s hogwash. He was like a father figure to her and she told him a lot.

    It’s all about the technicalities when there’s a multimillion dollar business at stake. Not a Clergyman. Did not have sex with that woman. Therefore no possibility of clergy sex abuse.

  238. sandy c wrote:

    explain the difference between honorary and actual earned degrees

    Disclaimer I’m not the real John Piper… but if I were, I might say that the difference is I had to waste 3 years of my life in Munich to get my actual earned doctorate. In hindsight, it was stupid of me to waste all that time and effort to study a bunch of wrong stuff. Darn it Jim! I’m a pastor, not a doctor. Had I wanted to be one, I could have become an honorary one just by writing heretical books, tweeting inane nonsense, and speaking at conferences with important men.

  239. @ sandy c:

    i see steve baughman as sharing TWW’s concern for truth and transparency in a plain-spoken way.

    i think it is especially egregious to deceive and use people by invoking God — people are especially vulnerable when heaven, hell, God’s favor, disfavor in relation to themselves is concerned. it is taking advantage of this vulnerability in people for self-centered pursuits.

    if the deceiver truly believes in God, the person is using God as well for self-centered purposes.

    i think reasonable people recognize these things, & how especially wrong it is, regardless of their faith or no-faith. Belief in a supreme being and hypocrisy = supreme hypocrisy. aside from how it hurts people, that alone is enough to provoke a reaction on the ethical scale in any reasonable person regardless of their beliefs.

    also, there is a shortfall of accountability amongst christians, and passive tolerance for wrongdoing amongst themselves. that, too, is enough to provoke an ethical reaction in anyone.

    someone needs to call it out.

    (i imagine you generally agree with all this)

  240. New post up at Spiritual Sounding Board: “Resource Archive and FAQs on the Ravi Zacharias and RZIM Situation.” It includes numerous links to primary source documents, plus links to posts with observations, analysis, and interpretations.

    This was developed in response to what look to be the most frequently asked questions about all the parties involved. So far, concerns addressed include about the lawsuits, RZIM board of directors and staff, Mr. Zacharias’ credentials and titles, updating of biographies and titles, and impact of the non-disclosure agreement.

    https://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2017/12/08/resource-archive-and-faqs-on-the-ravi-zacharias-and-rzim-situation/

  241. Pastor John wrote:

    Darn it Jim! I’m a pastor, not a doctor. Had I wanted to be one, I could have become an honorary one just by writing heretical books, tweeting inane nonsense, and speaking at conferences with important men.

    Maybe that explains last November’s Christian Vote…
    They mistook Trump for a Celebrity Mega-Pastor!

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