"Mark Driscoll Ministries recently purchased The Resurgence and all of its assets in a public auction by a law firm. We are excited to reestablish this site, but it will be some time before we are able to catalogue and determine what will happen with the content."
Looks like Mark Driscoll is planning a comeback in the New Year. The events page on the Pastor Mark Driscoll website lists two conferences at which he will be speaking in early 2016. Check out the screen shots below.
The question is, will Mark Driscoll be able to draw conference attendees this time or will there be a lot of empty seats?
The venue of the first conference, Trinity Fellowship, is a church that began in 1977. It has become a multi-site campus. Pastor Jimmy Evans has been the senior leader of Trinity for over 30 years. Here is information from the Zion website about speaker Mark Driscoll. (see screen shot)
So Mark Driscoll, who no longer pastors because the church he founded NO LONGER EXISTS, is still considered to be one of the 25 most influential pastors of the past 25 years???
The name of the second conference at which Driscoll will be speaking really caught our attention – The Most Excellent Way to Lead. It is a one-day conference that will take place at NewSpring Church, where one of Mark Driscoll's buddies, Perry Noble, pastors. The cost is $79. To get a $30 discount on the ticket price, all one has to do is provide proof that Noble's latest book entitled The Most Excellent Way to Lead, had been pre-ordered. Here are the event details (see screen shot below).
Oh yes! The best is yet to come according to Perry Noble, Steven Furtick, Mark Driscoll, and other recognizable individuals who will share the NewSpring stage. The piled up bodies under the Mars Hill bus will have a hard time believing that!
The conference purports to "transform your perspective on leadership and be equipped to lead in a way that cannot fail". The question is – will Driscoll be learning this from the other speakers or teaching it?
As most of our readers know, TheResurgence.com was an outgrowth of Mark Driscoll's teaching ministry at Mars Hill Church, which served as a repository of free resources. That is purportedly one of the reasons why Driscoll developed such a large following. The Resurgence then began publishing a series of books in partnership with Crossway (called Re:Lit).
In the wake of the Mark Driscoll debacle, The Resurgence website has been shut down; however, the following announcement has been posted over at the website (see screen shot below).
Now for those of you who still fondly call Driscoll "Big Papa D", here is a special video message from the Driscolls: A Christmas Thank You from Mark and Grace
Looks like RESURGENCE 2.0 may be coming in 2016. We will definitely keep you posted!
First?
@ Divorce Minister:
You are quick on the draw!
Driscoll isn’t qualified to be a preacher, and his first church failed (Mars Hill), yet he’s selling himself or his teachings as being for “leaders who want their teams and organizations to succeed beyond their expectations” ??
That other screen shot that talks about Driscoll? He is not a “people loving” person, give me a break.
@ Daisy:
Agreed. I continue to have a heavy heart for so many people who put their faith and trust in Mark Driscoll, and he and his inner circle inflicted so much pain. How in the world can Mark and Grace Driscoll go on as if none of that ever happened?
The most excellent way to lead sounds like it’s borrowed from 1 Corinthians 13. Maybe they love leading so much so that they equate the two. I can see them using this theme to say “love keeps no record of wrongs that leaders do, it bears all things, always hopes and trusts in the leaders” they could do a lot of harm with a little twisting of love in the name of leadership.
A resurgence of remarketing oneself to a new group of uninformed Christians seems to be at play here. It will be fun to see the hybridization of Driscoll's theology with SBC prosperity gospel. Sitting by with my popcorn eagerly watching.
@ Jamie Carter:
I think you're really on to something!
What sickens me was reading the list of speakers next to Mark Driscoll. Some are evangelical darlings (e.g. Dave Ramsey and Lisa TerKeurst). Is it really just about the money these days? And the audacity of MD to announce himself as a people lover when he ran away from the burning ship instead of rebuilding with people he hurt. It is shameful. But I don’t know what is more shameful…him doing it or people giving him a free pass on that. Even his “buddy” elders thought he needed to go through a correction process that he evaded by resigning.
The road to he!! Is paved with good intentions. The only thing missing is good intention.
And Dee Tee Driscoll hits the Comeback Trail…
Deb wrote:
Sociopathy?
Divorce Minister wrote:
Yes, but since he heard the voice of god (or whoever) that released him from MHC, his elders don’t count.
If all this weren’t so tragic for those he abused, it would be hilarious.
But Furtick, Noble, Ramsay, Furtick’s bff Terkeurst – wouldn’t want to touch any of them with a barge pole. The only ones who are missing are Robert “Your money is cursed if you don’t give me at least 10%” Morris and the gambler, what’s his name, MacDonald.
But I’m sure Furtick is going to teach them how to build a nice house, Noble will give excellent lessons in how to get your minions to harrass any dissenter, and Ramsay in how to give your underlings a hard time and general paranoia. What a bunch!
I’ve never understood the attraction of carnival freak shows.
“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.”
-Mark Twain
Raising funds to donate to “dear leader.” http://www.cafepress.com/+thrown-under-the-bus+gifts
Is it not yet clear what Driscoll is? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0v5xMBTZh4
Todd Wilhelm wrote:
That would be awesome to give out “I got thrown under the Mars Hill bus” t-shirts at the conference where Driscoll is speaking.
Can’t wait for Perry’s conference where apparently you will learn:
*How to throw congregants and disagreeing elders under your bus
*How to plagiarize and try to spin it as not a big deal
*How to flee your church when discipline is forthcoming
*Creating coloring books for your children’s ministry
*How to make a sexual deviant your hero
*Why your $3 million, 16k square foot mansion isn’t that great of a house
*Using social media to threaten and intimidate
*Disrupting adoptions to threaten and intimidate
Sounds like a lot of critical leadership lessons are to be learned there!
Divorce Minister wrote:
Somebody should print out their letter decrying Driscoll’s refusal to submit to discipline (along with some choice selections from Wartburg Watch and Warren Throckmorton) and nail or tape them to NewSpring Church’s doors the day of the conference.
Daisy wrote:
I also strongly question various aspects of the “Jesus-following, mission-leading, church-serving,… Bible-preaching,” parts.
Jesus-following? Really? Which Jesus. Cause it certainly isn’t the One talked about in the Gospels.
Mission-leading? Really? Well, maybe so. But who’s mission are we talking about?
Church-serving? Really? Cause his history proves that he believes the church is there to serve him, his ego, his legacy, his pocketbook. Cause it was all about him.
Bible-preaching? heh, heh, heh. Yeah. Whatever. I shall now (loosely)* quote our own Nick Bulbeckbeck. It goes some like this: “Driscoll uses the Bible as a sock puppet that always agrees with him.”
[I’m going from memory here and never get it quite right. But you get the idea.]
I am never sure whether to be really worried/sad/scared for Grace because it always appears that she is so controlled, miserable, looks scared in a repressed numb kind of way… Or to count her as an enabler who is enjoying her position and fully into it. I feel like her situation is mostly the former, but at what point is she complicit in all this even if she is being abused (at least emotionally, mentally – spiritually)…hopefully not physically??
Also, I wonder if the Driscoll kids are doing okay and how messed up things are for them, especially once they reach adulthood?
It’s such a train wreck.
Divorce Minister wrote:
I had this great conversation with a roommate a few days ago where we talked about the severe theological errors and danger in “Jesus Calling”. She asked me why Sarah Young [who we don’t know at all] would keep writing and publishing this if she really loved Jesus. The next day I happened to go to Lifeway and saw an entire half bookshelf of “Jesus Calling” merch, right as you walked in. I think all of us are a bag of mixed motives. No one [other than a sociopath] is a villain. But to think that the almighty $$ has NOTHING to do with it is foolish.
It just makes me pray that if God were to ever give me a large platform I would not treasure it above all else.
Bill M wrote:
So agree. I still can’t wrap my head around these type of preachers/ churches , and how they are so revered. Just don’t get it, they totally ring all my warning bells….same with Dave Ramsey and the money prophets. ( profits )
The Most Excellent Way to Lead. ……………..
A conference on how to establish your own dictatorships and get away with manipulation, treachery, and deceit to become rich and famous in democratic societies.
And he can break your nose.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kayRXtITyw
AnonInNC wrote:
Sounds more like the gathering place of mafia thugs.
What a heart-warming Christmas greeting. Don’t forget, it’s not too late to send your money to Mark & Grace.
Nobody needs to look to these people for leadership ideas. JesusChrist told us very simply,
You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. It shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant, and whoever would be first among you must be your slave, even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”
Years ago, I used to have some respect for Dave Ramsey. Then the reports of mistreated employees began to surface; while disturbing, I tried to reserve judgement until something concrete emerged. With this however, I can never again recommend him to anybody. I know he’s supposed to be a Christian, but if he’s willing to share a stage with this bunch, he’s either got the same level of discernment as The Donald, or he’s actually one of the goats.
The speaker intros to these conferences need to better inform potential attendees about Mark Driscoll (some may have never heard of him). Conference organizers at Trinity and NewSpring should add something like:
“Mr. Driscoll is known widely as the potty-mouth preacher who lost his ministry because of questionable sermons, nasty antics on stage, and unethical practices to promote his books. He has been a leader in the rebellious New Calvinist movement that has drawn thousands of young people into aberrant theology; many young pastors have mimicked his unruly style. His literary contributions include a porno marriage book and assorted other works that promote reformed theology, a controversial brand of faith for over 500 years. He is known widely for his un-Biblical position on the eternal subordination of women and patriarchal authoritarian rule of churches. Disfellowshipped by his ministry and most of his one-time supporters, he has been in exile for the past couple of years to reinvent himself. Please join us to welcome Mr. Driscoll’s unrepentant comeback into Christendom.”
Max wrote:
First they would have to come clean about the antics of the other people sharing the platform.
@ Bridget:
Yep, quite a cast of characters! The young reformed crowd are more gullible than I thought if they continue to fall for this.
NJ wrote:
Mr. “spend wisely within your means and stick to your budget” is all game for people shelling out $79 per head (not counting travel and hotel expenses) to attend this dog and pony show???
⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️
How is he listed as a Pastor when he does not lead a church????
@ abigail:
Self proclamation! The entire video was self promotion.
@ abigail:
I wondered about that too. So many people are hoodwinked by this kind of nonsense. It’s sad.
Is the church really an organisation in the same sense as a business enterprise? I noticed the expression ‘for ministry and business leaders’ and let’s just say it brought back memories.
One memory was how the emphasis here too has gone from God to man. God is not mentioned in the quote above. It’s how do you want to leave a legacy, in particular succeed beyond your expectations and never fail. It’s nothing to do with serving the church, edifying believers or reaching those outside the church.
This whole scenario is pathetic in the deepest sense of the word.
@ Max:
I hate to say this but I imagine a lot of the attendees would see that as cool. If they are there for Furtick and Noble, they probably think arrogance and meaness is cool in a pastor. Integrity and character has been redefined in that world.
Personally, I am glad that some “leaders” are inviting Mark to speak. Concerning most of these “leaders,” I have never heard their names before. The worship of Mammon is one of the top problems in the western Church. Now I have a growing list of “leaders” who clearly love money more than their flocks. All of the systematic theological systems are flawed including Neo-Calviniam. Leaders like Mark are too proud to admit the truth. The real problem with leadership these days are leaders who do not act like Christ, because they do not actually know Christ. These people do not actually live up to the theologies that they preach. That just makes them hypocrites. http://www.cfcindia.com/article/god-and-mammon
Lydia wrote:
“I CAN BEAT YOU UP! I CAN BEAT YOU UP! I CAN BEAT YOU UP!”
In Transactional Analysis, there is a mind game called “Tough Guy”; you hang out with and follow the arrogant and mean to role-play How Tough I Am.
abigail wrote:
Same way President Field Marshal DOCTOR Idi Amin Dada got his Doctorate.
He PROCLAIMED himself one.
BeenThereDoneThat wrote:
And throw you under his bus with all the others.
AnonInNC wrote:
Don’t forget:
* How to use shills to increase baptism/altar call numbers
* The best laxatives to use for terminal constipation (if this is the “Perry” I think it is)
One conference claims “This event is uniquely designed for leaders who want their teams and their organizations to succeed beyond their expectations.”
I don’t want to learn how to succeed beyond my expectations because my expectations (being of my own work) are worth nothing compared to what God has for me. (Philippians 3:8.) I want to follow God’s plans, not come up with my own and then exceed them. After all, his ways are beyond my imagination. (Isaiah 55:8.)
Besides, when it comes to learning more about how to serve the body of Christ I think the better place is to learn from small and mid size church pastors who work with 99% of the body rather than the few mega-church pastor who only know what it’s like to minister to the few huge congregations. (The Conference Every Mega-Church Pastor Should Attend.)
Mr. Jesperson wrote:
That is a good point, they are hanging a sign on themselves.
I don’t recall where I saw it, someone replaced the “p” at the end of “leadership” and put in a “t”, it really helped explain the concept.
Max wrote:
Max, I do not think this is being marketed to the young reformed crowd, as Furtick, Noble, et al, have no association with the YRRs. I think Driscoll is ‘changing tribes’ (my apologies to any Native Americans/First Nations peoples who have been offended by Driscoll’s use of the word tribe) to one that is more open about their love for and pursuit of money – the Robert Morris, TD Jakes, Prosperity/Word of Faith Crowd.
abigail wrote:
Good eye; I missed that when I read the bio. Driscoll’s assorted sins leading up to his termination at Mars Hill disqualified him from using that title. “Ex-Pastor” would be a more honest presentation of his credentials when promoting the conference. (Of course, I’m not sure he ever qualified for that title in the first place; calling yourself “Pastor” doesn’t mean you are in God’s eyes)
Lydia wrote:
Amen Lydia! I certainly see that in the SBC reformed church plants in my neck of the woods. Not much going on in those works that look like the Body of Christ. Of course, they are all about being “culturally-relevant”, even if it means lowering the moral bar. I guess I’m just an old fuddy-duddy by thinking that holiness in the pulpit and reverence in practice should still be proper – even if it is the 21st century!
Here’s a post I did on the Evangelical Free Church. If you were involved in an Evangelical Free hijacking or church discipline situation that was un-ethical or questionable I want to speak with you. I am hoping to write more about the Evangelical Free denomination.
https://wonderingeagle.wordpress.com/2015/12/07/wanted-stories-about-neo-calvinism-church-hi-jackings-corruption-and-child-sex-abuse-cover-up-in-the-evangelical-free-church-of-america/
@ Max, @abigail:
I was on Southeastern’s campus a few years, well, many years, back and was speaking with someone I ran into. He described himself as a pastor but he was not serving at a church. When I asked him about that he said he was a “shepherd without any sheep.”
So there you have it. You can be a pastor without having to deal with the annoyances of actually leading a church.
Seems everyone is hooked on leadership. If I had a nickel for every Christian leadership conference, I could retire today. Ugh. As Dallas Willard once said “I’d like to see some conferences on followership.” I couldn’t agree more. So many of those who are hooked on leadership would do much better if they stopped talking themselves up and quietly followed a real spiritual leader, starting with Jesus.
The American church has confused numbers and money with success in God’s kingdom.
@ Tim:
Mr. Jesperson wrote:
Bingo! You will know them by their fruit. Matthew 7:15-23 describes some of these guys perfectly.
Yep. Whatever is most expedient. I’m not being cynical either.
@ Burwell Stark:
Mara wrote:
I agreed with the rest of your post too, but this was the part that grabbed me most.
I too had that thought when I was reading the post last night, but I didn’t type it up.
I did wonder which Jesus Driscoll follows, because he depicts this hyper masculine, booty-kicking, beer can crushing, MMA Jesus that I don’t recognize.
Not that I think Jesus was the weepy, limp, weak super softie that other Christians make him out to be. I think Christians go to either extreme with Jesus – they either portray a Super Tough He-Man version of Jesus, or a Super Mousey Meek and Mild wouldn’t confront a fly version of Jesus.
Driscoll definitely has a hyper macho version of Jesus I do not recognize as being the same one from the Bible.
Mr. Jesperson wrote:
That was a very good article – I encourage everyone to check it out.
Burwell Stark wrote:
Both Furtick and Noble are interesting characters … they are hybrids of this and that theology. While not running in the New Calvinist crowd of who’s-who with Piper, Keller, et al, the young and restless (even some reformed) in my area still hold them in high esteem, buy their books, follow them on social media, and listen to their sermon podcasts.
Yes, Driscoll is looking for another tribe – leaders in the last one he was in distanced themselves from him when he became a potato too hot to handle. He’s even tested the water in Pentecostal ranks, having appeared on stage this year in some mega Assembly of God churches. I keep thinking he will reinvent himself as a “Charismatic Calvinist” … it has a nice ring to it, and wide-open for new book sales.
Sarah wrote:
There are even people recorded in the early days of the church who were making a buck off Jesus.
2 Corinthians 2:17
Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, as those sent from God.
NJ wrote:
Spies, Cash, and Fear: Inside Christian Money Guru Dave Ramsey’s Social Media Witch Hunt
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/29/spies-cash-and-fear-inside-christian-money-guru-dave-ramsey-s-social-media-witch-hunt.html
Melody wrote:
Sadly, that describes much of the 21st century church in America. Would the following describe American pulpits today? “He sent them out to preach the kingdom of God and to heal the sick, with these words, ‘Take nothing for your journey—neither a stick nor a purse nor food nor money, nor even extra clothes!'” (Luke 9:3-5). I would call them successful in that mission.
Burwell Stark wrote:
That’s a little like saying you’re a dentist, but you have no patients and never pull any wisdom teeth.
roebuck wrote:
(quoting another poster)
I guess I missed that part of this person’s post above.
This is one of several reasons I’ve been strongly questioning the Christian faith I was raised in.
Other than my mother and a small number of Christians I’ve known (most of whom I’ve bumped into on the internet), I’m not seeing many Christians who appear to be sincerely trying to live by the faith consistently.
I do not expect perfection from any Christian, but what at least looks like a genuine try to live by the teachings of Jesus.
(I tried to live the faith out consistently myself since I became a Christian as a kid, so I tried holding myself up to these standards, too.)
Anyway, I do find it hard to find reasons to hold on to a faith where many of the other adherents of it step on people, use them, where they are not even apparently trying to live out the most simple of Jesus’ teachings and examples.
@ Burwell Stark:
He was emergent before he was YRR. He made his debut in Donald Miller’s “Blue Like Jazz” as the emergent cussing pastor in Seattle.
So there seems to be a pattern. Go where the action is growing
@ Nancy2:
Yeah but tithe first. No matter how broke…tithe first.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
Pay me to beat you up! :o)
Max wrote:
Oh yes. I noticed that on older threads.
Driscoll has even seemingly watered down his anti-women rhetoric and views lately. He made some comments publicly earlier this year saying he’s now sorry for denying women equal rights to serve in church or something. (I gave links to that on an older thread.)
I would guess Driscoll is, in his private life, rather misogynic (based on how he treats his wife – I’ve read accounts of that), but if he wants to buddy up with more women-friendly churches / pastors, he has to soften his commentary about women.
I just saw something about a week ago where Perry Noble was saying women should be leaders or preachers in churches? Driscoll is trying to cozy up to guys like that now.
I don’t like gender comp (sexist) views, but, I can at least respect them to a point if the person espousing them sincerely believes the Bible is teaching it.
But now, it looks like Driscoll changes his doctrinal views (including on gender comp) to where ever the wind may blow, if it serves him financially or personally.
He doesn’t really give a hoot about women in church, he only wants to fit in with churches who say they do, so he can keep making $$$ – is how it looks to me.
@ roebuck:
That is why I included it. I have been getting good feedback everywhere I post it.
Lydia wrote:
I think he views Christianity as a money-making scheme.
I am sorry if this sounds arrogant of me, but as I’ve already said on Julie Anne’s blog (and maybe here), I don’t think Driscoll is a true convert, so I would not be surprised if on Judgement Day, he’s one of the ones Christ to whom says, “Get away from me, I never knew you.” I sure hope Driscoll reevaluates his spiritual state.
abigail wrote:
Because to him, pastor is a noun not a verb.
Daisy wrote:
I know many nominal ‘Christians’, and very few who walk their talk. And it often comes down to Mammon.
My mother, too, was a real Christian – low key about it, but constantly helping, giving, caring in a lot of ways. Not perfect, as you say, but taking it seriously.
I think for many nominal ‘Christians’ these days, Christianity is sort of a superstition, sort of a prosperity-gospel thing in various ways. Every so often I meet someone who seems real, but not very often.
It sometimes seems like those who talk it up a lot are the least Christ-centered in their actual walk…
Just curious, doesn’t the title “Pastor” imply that he is in a role within a church structure. Therefore, I wonder, under whose authority is “Pastor Mark” continuing to claim the title Pastor? Is he operating as an “Independent Contractor” and under his own authority? Was he ever officially ordained to the work of ministry? If so, who was the authorizing entity? It just seems that the trainwreck in Seattle will probably occur again in the new location, especially if he is “Pastoring” with no accountability structure. It seems that “Lone Ranger Spiritual Advisor” may be a more appropriate title; but then again the word “Pastor” has lost much of its meaning too.
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Daisy wrote:
“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.”
This is as true inside of the ‘church’ as it is outside of it.
Lydia wrote:
Oh yes, he was a darling of the emergent movement when it was cool. He was buds with the likes of Rob Bell, Don Miller, Brian McLaren, et al … before emergent fell out of favor. He jumped from emergent to resurgent, before he finally went submergent. But no one expected him to stay under water too long; he is too savvy for that. He will now work the young and gullibles with a new gimmick.
Daisy wrote:
The New Calvinists may make fun of the prosperity teachers (Copeland et al.), but the NC leaders pad their pockets equally well with YRRD bucks (YRRD = young, restless, reformed & deceived).
roebuck wrote:
Marketing and PR have taken over the ‘church’. The new gospel is that Jesus can enhance your life. He’s like a cool charm to add to complete your charm bracelet. Success in the new church has been defined as numbers. Evangelism is do whatever it takes to bring bodies in the door. What these people actually understand and believe is beside the point. Keep them entertained. Give them pep talks about relationships and managing money. Give them programs to entertain their kids.
I wonder if we are seeing the church of Laodicea. The church which re-establishes the clergy-laity separation. The church that thinks it is rich, successful and has everything when it actually is poor and naked and blind.
Max wrote:
As it says in 1John 2:21, “no lie is of the truth.”
As soon as dishonesty is used to advance the cause of Christ you can know it is not actually the cause of Christ. He does not approve of nor use dishonesty.
The attitude of the believer’s heart is what is important to him, not any outward sign of success the person can accomplish. As Jesus said, “for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham.” He does not need people to accomplish things for him. He is in the business of changing hearts, one at a time. He stands at the door and knocks and if any man opens to him, he comes in. He does not need buildings and programs and ad campaigns and worldly measures of success.
“Many who are first will be last.”
“For I tell you, truly they have their reward.”
The Lead/Senior Pastor and Elder of Trinity Fellowship (TFC) is Jimmy Evans of Marriage Today fame. Jimmy has three Apostolic Elders who oversee his church: Robert Morris of Gateway, Tom Lane of Gateway and Brady Boyd originally from GW but moved to New Life to replace Ted Haggard after he was caught trying to buy meth from his male prostitute masseuse.
.
Robert gave Driscoll his first post-MH resignation speaking gig on October 20, 2014, where Mark addressed 4,000 pastors with a weepy tale of how HE is the real Mars Hill victim here. It was just DAYS after Mark resigned via email. You can see that fine stage performance here http://www.patheos.com/blogs/warrenthrockmorton/2014/10/20/mark-driscoll-rocks-the-gateway-conference/ Robert counseled Driscoll to resign instead of facing any church reconciliation. Robert has also admitted that he has done far worse things as a pastor than Mark ever did. http://connect.gatewaypeople.com/media/leadership-ceiling
The next day, 10-21-15 Jimmy Evans took the pulpit and declared that the Lord had given him a prophecy for Mark Driscoll, whom he had not previously met:
“You lead a great movement as a brother, you will lead a greater one as a father, your later years will surpass your younger.” http://www.patheos.com/blogs/warrenthrockmorton/2014/10/24/mark-driscoll-gets-prophetic-word-at-gateway-conference/
Jimmy is now helping to make this prophecy come true. Does it seem consistent with God’s nature that He would elevate a man like Mark, who refuses to reconcile with his former church, to the role of spiritual father with a massive following?
.
Jimmy is a college drop-out who sold appliances in his father’s appliance store. He was horrible to his wife (including a bachelor party fling on the night before his wedding) and at some point stopped being quite so terrible to her and stopped playing so much golf (temporarily). So TFC hired this young, unqualified man to “professionally” counsel others with marriage problems. A couple years later TFC’s head pastor was involved in a large financial scandal and quickly resigned. TFC promoted Jimmmy to Head Pastor despite his never having been a pastor, never having studied theology and never having gone to seminary. Jimmy’s main qualifications were that he could tell funny, folksy stories to his Pentecostal crowd and he loves to play golf every day. Jimmy has previously said that his biggest challenge in his early pastoring years, was to get the people of Amarillo to stop calling TFC a cult.
.
Jimmy is also the Lead Apostolic Elder at GW and is the one who planted Gateway church in Southlake. Jimmy keeps luxury mansions in both DFW and Amarillo and rakes in millions a year selling that which as a pastor he should be giving away for free. Like Robert Morris, Evans preaches word of faith and prosperity gospel as well as end times predictions.
.
Perry Noble claims that Robert Morris is his personal Pastor. Jimmy is one of Robert’s best friends and they are Apostolic Elders at each other’s churches in order to ensure that they each will vote the way the other wants. There is no independence. Mark Driscoll fits right in with the 7 figure lifestyles of these men, pimping the Word of God for obscene amounts of cash.
.
Pastors who will stand before God someday and have to answer for their shepherding should be cancelling their next Jimmy Evans’ XO Marriage Conference in droves over this Driscoll fiasco. They won’t because Jimmy Evans brings in the numbers. I would say that Evans, Morris, Noble and Driscoll are greedy wolves in shepherd’s clothing but with their ultra refined tastes they are more like platina foxes in shepherd’s clothing. All four will have to answer one day for all the corpses under Driscoll’s bus.
Max wrote:
Well put, Max. Your line reminded me of the old Petra song “Chameleon” who chorus went:
@ LT:
The Jimmy Evans you bring up there is one of the preachers I mentioned on a thread here on TWW the other day who teaches that a person has to be married to be ‘whole.’
He teaches that an unmarried person has only one half a brain and needs to marry an opposite gender person (who has one half brain) to equal a full brain. (He actually said this on one of his marriage television shows.)
A 2016 resurgence just around the corner huh?
I hope it gets run over by a truck.
Muff Potter wrote:
Or a bus. I’m not picky.
@ LT:
“One Hand Washes the Other — and the Other, and the Other, and the Other…”
Melody wrote:
Like robbing banks — “That’s where the Money is.”
Lydia wrote:
Actually I don’t think a pastor should lead a church but should serve a church. If they lead, then they are not a pastor but something entirely different.
roebuck wrote:
So I google “mammon definition” to get a better understanding of the origin of the word and the third entry is from Creflo Dollar. Sigh.
Bill M wrote:
I think much the same thing should and can be said of husbands in Christian marriages, but there are gender comps who insist on assigning “leader” role to the husband.
I think Christians get off course when they start proclaiming that one person,or one type of group of people (pastors, husbands, what ever) should be in authority over another person or group.
One of the big messages I take away from the NT is equality of all, and Jesus reprimanded his followers from seeking leader / authority-over positions, but comps and some preachers argue they have the right to those very things Jesus condemned. And they think they are being biblical.
Daisy wrote:
I agree. I attended a few of his sermons (family duty) and listened to some on-line. MD never discussed the trinity. It was “all about Jesus” but never about God or the Holy Spirit. I question which team he really plays for.
@ Bill M:
Bingo.
Deb wrote:
I am not surprised MD is making a come-back. I actually thought it might happen sooner. But what I’m noticing is that he is rubbing elbows with folks who are not in the Neo-Cal camp. I suppose he has to go where he will be heard and most of the Neo-Cals are probably ashamed to align with him at this point. This whole come-back is a joke, but here’s the thing: a leopard cannot change his spots and Driscoll hasn’t changed. He hasn’t learned from the downfall of his Mars Hill ministry. So, he will make the same mistakes again and more people will be hurt. Only this time, folks can’t say they weren’t warned.
seanr wrote:
Yes, what I noticed as well. And when the SBC camp and the Pentecostal camp are tired of his ways, he can always start his own cult. That’s the way it’s done in the United States these days. Driscoll has all kinds of options to keep his gig going.
Divorce Minister wrote:
What? Driscoll aligning himself with a woman leader? I thought he only believed that men should preach. Ah….but now it suits him to believe differently, now that he has little to no chance of speaking at a Neo-Cal conference.
Bill M wrote:
LOL!!!
Rose wrote:
Rose, I’m thinking there might be some aspect of self-preservation going on with Grace Driscoll at this point. She just might have it a bit easier now that MD is running with the pro-female leader crowd. With the YRR/Neo-Cal camp, she didn’t have a chance. Whatever the case, standing by his side as if he did no wrong is being complicit in his wrongdoing. Of course, maybe she still holds to the view that a wife should be silent and not confront her husband about his sins. One thing is for sure, if MD makes good money during his comeback, Grace benefits financially along with him.
Max wrote:
Max, Driscoll’s new audience isn’t the “young reformed crowd” any longer.
Ken wrote:
Also what is glaringly clear is that they care nothing for the poor, nothing for helping the victims of domestic and sexual abuse, nothing for those suffering – it’s all about them and their religious empires. Jesus had something to say to these types of people in the parable of the sheep and the goats. And their reply will be: “But when did we not…..?” Jesus will not be fooled.
These guys will always find an audience. That audience will get smaller and smaller as the church continues its descent into irrelevancy.
Burwell Stark wrote:
Yes! He has changed tribes to suit his own agenda.
This is spot on and would be funny if it wasn’t so tragic! Well done. @ Max:
@ AnonInNC:
you forgot how to learn to buy your way into the NY Times Best Sellers list
@ Max:
Brilliant. You just couldn’t make this stuff up, could you? MD is just working on the long con.
@ nwhiker:
“I attended a few of his sermons (family duty) and listened to some on-line. MD never discussed the trinity. It was “all about Jesus” but never about God or the Holy Spirit.”
++++++++++++++
how was it ‘all about Jesus’?
Molinist Mike wrote:
This stuff used to burden me to the point of tears. Now, I’m just mad! We are losing a generation to this madness.
Darlene wrote:
I think we will see some of that crowd shift to whatever Driscoll reinvents himself to be. I know many YRR in my area. Some continue to remain intensely loyal to Driscoll, feeling that he got a bum deal when he was ousted from his ministry. Driscoll’s strange personality has kept them in the loop and waiting for his return to the stage. “Pastor” Driscoll makes the sinful in this crowd feel better about themselves. Granted, he will also find a new audience in another segment of fringe Christendom – a new crowd holds the promise of a new market for speaking engagements and book sales.
Max wrote:
Someone needs to remind these people that Driscoll QUIT his ministry. He was not ousted! In fact, he was being treated much more graciously at the time HE QUIT than he treated those that he fired, disciplined, forced to resign, etc.
Some folks have short memories.
siteseer wrote:
Merchandising the gospel, which is not the Gospel at all. A church which falls for it is not the Church.
@ Max:
“Some continue to remain intensely loyal to Driscoll, feeling that he got a bum deal when he was ousted from his ministry.”
+++++++++++++++++++++
on what basis? (if you have an inkling)
Driscoll is “people-loving” like I’m fried chicken loving.
Burwell Stark wrote:
Shoulda told him that you’re a nascar driver. You just don’t have a race car.
@ Max:
“This stuff used to burden me to the point of tears. Now, I’m just mad! We are losing a generation to this madness.”
+++++++++++++++++++++
i’m no good at estimating jellybeans in a jar let alone people in a generation, but i feel it’s a relatively small sector of it.
as to a generation, chances are the majority outside the institution have the upper hand in what is good, reasonable, kind, fair, with an innocence in perceiving raw God/Jesus/Holy Spirit (which their counterparts don’t have, their minds and souls high under the influence of program)
Good to know that now, at the end of the year is a good time to send in that financial support. Thanks Mark, for the Christmas reminder.
I just don’t get why pastors lie about their past. When my last church fell apart, one of the things that came out was that, although the pastor had told us our church was his second church plant, it was actually his THIRD. Why would you lie about something like that?!
Bridget wrote:
True, he did quit his ‘pastorate’. But three months before his voluntary resignation from Mars Hill in October 2014, Acts 29 Board of Directors removed (ousted) both Driscoll and Mars Hill from their membership (an organization he had founded) … citing “ungodly and disqualifying behavior.”
elastigirl wrote:
Within Southern Baptist life, New Calvinism is rapidly becoming the theology of choice in the 20s-40s age group. Most SBC entities are now controlled by NC leaders, including its publishing house, home and international mission agencies, and leading seminaries. The new generation of SBC pastors are primarily reformed in belief and practice, which runs contrary to the majority theological persuasion of SBC members – whose apathy in this regard continues to amaze me.
So Mark Driscoll, who no longer pastors because the church he founded NO LONGER EXISTS, is still considered to be one of the 25 most influential pastors of the past 25 years???
Well actually, this is probably true. The real task is even thinking of 25 influential preachers in the last quarter century.
Daisy wrote:
Well, it depends on how you define success. I suspect Perry Noble defines it in dollars.
Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist wrote:
True, that. And maybe power and influence.
Speaking of PN, he had a melt down on Twitter about a week ago. It was bizarre. He was sniping at people and exchanging barbs over a football team losing or something.
Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist wrote:
Yep, but no doubt that Driscoll “influenced” a bunch of young rebels. In fact, I’ve heard YRR refer to him as an “influencer” … a term they actually use for the likes of Piper, Keller, Chandler, Mohler and other who’s-who in the reformed movement.
Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist wrote:
Well, you've got a point there. 😉
Beakerj wrote:
You got it. And what is so ironic is that many who helped him with the long con now pretend he never existed: SBC leader gurus and their loyal followers.
I do wonder what would have happened to Acts 29 early on without SBC pew sitter money and resources. Not much, I expect.
Lydia wrote:
Sadly, SBC still plays a major role in the proliferation of the Acts 29 network. SBC pastors Matt Chandler and Darrin Patrick are Acts 29 President and Vice President, respectively. Their positions indirectly encourage YRR pastors starting churches (many using SBC church planting funds) to hold dual SBC and Acts 29 affiliation. Acts 29, in turn, has played a key role in the Calvinization of the Southern Baptist Convention by influencing a generation of young pastors heading toward SBC pulpits.
@ Melody:
However the so called self appointed “leaders” are not confused by all this because it is all about money and power. The Good news about Jesus is free because he paid the price but the buck hustlers aren’t going to let be the message.
@ Max:
We were all told Matt Chandler was totally different than Driscoll. Then the Karen Hinkley scandal went public. He has been building an authoritarian empire, too.
elastigirl wrote:
His mantra has always been “It’s all about Jesus”. A feature of Driscoll’s ‘ministry’ is that he seldom refers to Jesus’ titles of ‘Lord’ and ‘Christ’. MD says, “We’re Christians, we worship Jesus. I don’t say “God” or “Lord” or the big guy in the sky, I don’t say that kind of stuff…”
The banner of his current web page: “It’s all about Jesus!” –Pastor Mark every year since 1995
What I want to know is if he’s going to start another church here in the Phoenix area. Please God, I hope not.
All about Jesus… I’ve noticed this in parts of the Evangelical world. As if the Father is too scary, with all that wrath stuff, and the Holy Spirit is irrelevant. And the whole Trinity thing… Yikes!
These characters wouldn’t have fit in with the council of Nicea.
Daisy wrote:
Yes he does. His entire ministry is based on that and similar teachings. That Mother Theresa… what a 1/2 human brained loser, huh? She could have been so effective in ministry if only she had found a Mr. Avila Right…
.
Jimmy Evans spoke to the GW young adults service this year in order to push his new book. Jimmy told these young people “Michael Douglas the actor. Uh Michael Douglas got throat cancer several years ago. And when he got throat cancer he came out publicly and said it’s because of oral sex and he was right. He had oral sex and through oral sex he caught HPV in his mouth which caused throat cancer” http://gatewaypeople.com/ministries/young-adults/events/off-topic-2015/session/2015/05/26/the-right-one (min 30:25)
Michael Douglas’ actual quote was (when asked whether he now regretted his years of smoking and drinking, usually thought to be the cause of the oral/throat cancer): “No. Because without wanting to get too specific, this particular cancer is caused by HPV which actually comes about from cunnilingus… And if you have it, cunnilingus is also the best cure for it.” Jimmy never bothered to mention that Douglas was joking or that he also sardonically listed the oral sex as the cure for oral/throat cancer, that he later publicly apologized for the hurtful and flippant comment or that no doctor or scientist has been able to prove that oral sex causes throat/oral cancer.
.
Then Jimmy then goes on to preach about the horrors of creating “soul ties” which is not biblical. The basis for “soul ties” is found in superstition and occult teachings. He also said on the spread of STD’s that “condoms don’t help whatsoever.” Although they can’t prevent the spread of certain viruses 100% the CDC advises that they should be used and that they do improve the odds of not contracting them and he should not be saying otherwise.
.
He also states, “Here’s what research shows. If you’re lying down French kissing you’re going to have sex within a matter of 30 to 40 hours. If you’re French kissing, if you’re by yourselves, if you’re laying down, you’re going to have intercourse – period.”(42:10) Some of the guys were stoked that week. Followed by disappointment the next. The real issue is that all the young people who have French kissed and not gone on to have intercourse within 30-40 hours just learned that one of the most powerful and visible Christian leaders in America makes crap up.
.
I could go on for a long time about all of Jimmy Evan’s false teachings. The main point is that these three: Jimmy – The Jonas Brothers are still virgins – Evans, Robert – The Message is The Bible – Morris and Perry – there’s no such thing as the Ten Commandments – Noble form the perfect Triumvirate of False Millionaire Prophets to help re-launch Mark Driscoll’s career. It’s difficult to say who should be more embarrassed by this new affiliation.
@ nwhiker:
so, aside from him saying “jesusjesusjesus”, in your visit(s) there, was there anything that rang true and sincere about recognizing the awesomeness of Jesus the person, Jesus the King of Kings, and the significance of who He is, what He did?
(In my observation, Jesus Christ, beyond name only, is a threat to many pastors, who enjoy all the spotlight & attention. MD seems neediest of all.)
@ GSD:
“All about Jesus… I’ve noticed this in parts of the Evangelical world. As if the Father is too scary, with all that wrath stuff, and the Holy Spirit is irrelevant. And the whole Trinity thing”
++++++++++++
actually, what I’ve noticed is that if it’s about anyone not present in the flesh it’s about Paul. Jesus in name only.
but usually it’s all life coaching.
elastigirl wrote:
Who needs Jesus? What you need is a slogan, a cool logo, a cool website with cool fonts, and a cool persona that gets peoples’ interest. A starbucks in the lobby is always nice.
nwhiker wrote:
MD doesn’t say “God” or “Lord”? God and Lord are in the Bible for goodness sake.
What, was Robert Tilton unavailable?
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
The “Field Marshal” part has a similar origin. But Wikipedia says his full, official title was “His Excellency, President for Life, Field Marshal Al Hadji Doctor Idi Amin Dada, VC, DSO, MC, Lord of All the Beasts of the Earth and Fishes of the Seas and Conqueror of the British Empire in Africa in General and Uganda in Particular.” Plus something about being the last king of Scotland.
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siteseer wrote:
I’ve just re-read the letters to the churches.
I’m not sure there is much to wonder about the western church being Laodicean in its outlook. Possibly Sardis as well I know your works; you have the name of being alive, and you are dead. The Sardis PR machine to keep its reputation as a great church alive and kicking.
It’s interesting that neither of these churches was experiencing the kind of persecution that many of the others were, and that Jesus had nothing good to say about them. There was an offer of fellowship and mercy to those within these churches who walked worthy of the faith and listened to him; the only other message was essentially to repent. He told Laodicea to get what they lacked and needed from him, not the principles of business management as expounded by the Peter Druckers and Ken Blanchards of this world, augmented by sundry positive thinkers and New Age gurus.
I do not doubt though that such conferences can be successful.
And the devil took him up, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time, and said to him, “To you I will give all this authority and their glory; for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will.
It’t the price that has to be paid for it that ought to make anyone turn away from such tempting conference claims.
I don’t know what has happen since Ted Haggard till now… that guy was nearly spiritually castrated for what he did.
On a much smaller scale was the Dino Rizzo incident. I get it that you need to surround a fallen brother. I get it that you need to help him back to where he needs to be. He was taken in by Chris Hodges for that purpose but with in a very short period of time he was preaching and now he’s the executive director of ARC.
With that being said… I think this whole thing with Driscoll is the mentality of the church growth movement. I was sitting in an ARC service once and the ARC preacher said that he already had an agreement made with another ARC preacher that if either of them “messed up” that the other one would bring them in and hire them. Maybe this is just a “circle the wagon” mentality created by the internet that these guys know that nothing can be hid anymore.
Haggard was a disgrace alright for what he did. But that guy was mandated to leave town and essentially get his problems sorted out. But I would submit on what Driscoll did was far more reaching and much more costly to souls and even to the banks that were left holding the bag on some properties.
The ministers that are listed in these conferences, some of which I do listen to from time to time. I have lost just about all respect for. The whole standing “O” for Driscoll thing with Morris at Gateway was simply overwhelming and astonishing to me. Then being told by Morris to “Stop It” on reading about what Driscoll had done because a lot of which was a lie. If I only believed one-quarter of what was out their, I’m running with no standing O.
I don’t want to kill these guys, I hope they come back to sort proper walk and influence… But wow… But maybe this is more our fault as believers… that run and chase these guys and give them tons of money and accolades. It shows how much we don’t know and how much we don’t go to the scriptures.
If it sounds like a ramble…that’s because it is. I wish I could write as well as some of you… some grace please..
Lydia wrote:
Chandler’s interview with John Piper removed all doubts about his patriarchal style: “I preach to men.” TWW’s female viewers will also appreciate (not) his subordinate reference to church women as “our girls.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKEpVzHnUw0
A. Stacy wrote:
No doubt about it. Charlatans wouldn’t succeed if they didn’t have an audience. Folks who follow and support cult personalities are uninformed, misinformed, or willingly ignorant. There appears to be an outbreak of the latter in the American church. Too many church-goers (even believers) simply don’t pray and read the Word as they ought … and, thus, have no spiritual discernment to sort out truth from error, good from bad, right from wrong. They and their wallets are easy pickins’ for false teachers and their message.
Haggard had been given a big amount of money so he would have the time to receive counseling but he dropped out of that. He was supposed to stay out of ministry but he tried to get involved in a shyster ministry. He was to avoid publicity during this time but went to the news and on national television. Never mentioning what a horrible thing he had done to his wife, children, church (except that cooler heads prevailed he could have sunk the church) the talks he gave to the media was how unfairly abused by Christians. He couldn’t make enough big money selling insurance and so he started a church again in Colorado Springs. For most he continues to be someone to stay away from but would you believe that there were ones who continue to follow him.
Haggard… oh yes he returned to town when he wasn’t supposed to, he never was charged for the illegal drug usage with the homosexual prostitute, it came out that he took a young admitted homosexual man up to a motel in the mts, went to bed with him but did not have sex. If I’m not mistaken one of the places he told how unfairly Christians had treated him was “Christianity Today”
A. Stacy wrote:
No influence for Driscoll please. It is not a matter of forgiveness, Driscoll has simply demonstrated that he is incapable of holding any degree of power without abusing it. I hope he just goes away to a quiet spot and leaves everyone alone.
Bill M wrote:
“If” Driscoll repents of his former deeds by demonstrating a godly sorrow that worketh repentance (2 Corinthians 7:10), our forgiveness would be in order … but not restoration to ministry. His influence over a generation that became just like him in message and method continues to this day … Driscollites and Driscollology are still at work. Why would we want to risk giving him another chance? When the Acts 29 board removed him and Mars Hill from membership they reminded us all why they did so: “ungodly and disqualifying behavior.” Forgive? Certainly! Restore to leadership? Crazy if we do (but spiritual ignorance gave him his first platform, so anything is possible).
Sarah wrote:
I don’t think God gives large platforms anymore. There’s only one with the large platform God-given, and that’s Jesus.
Burwell Stark wrote:
This seems to be exactly what’s going on.
ION:
In the UK, “trump” is an alternative onomatopoeia for “fart”.
Just saying.
IHTIH
Burwell Stark wrote:
A few years back, I did an informal “content analysis” of Christian books from the 1990s through early 2010 decade about spiritual abuse, plus some earlier ones from the 1980s on “Christian cults.” The three theological problems that were most prominent in their discussions were (in no particular order):
1. Authoritarian leadership and some variation on the Shepherding Movement.
2. Word of Faith with its mantras of pray it, say it, don’t delay it — or conceive it, believe it, receive it!
3. Prosperity gospel, where God’s blessing on you/your ministry is supposedly validated with wealth.
I’m beginning to wonder if most organizations that embrace one of these will actually end up with at least two of them. And the overall theological bent doesn’t seem to matter so much … whether it’s Charismatic or Calvigelical or etc. frosting over the same corrupt paradigm cupcake.
Anyway, so maybe it’s not necessarily so much that Mark Driscoll is changing tribes as just adapting to a different dialect of what he was already into. But it also works to see it as him finding a new “tribal council” who will affirm him as-is. Given the trajectory that’s been set and the momentum that’s been building, I expect to see a lot more push-back against these “commenders” who use their reputations and organizations to prop up spiritual bullies like themselves.
P.S. Am also wondering what three issues of theology and practices will be added next to that list of harmful heresies by the year 2020. The more research that gets done into interconnections among authoritarianism and its spawn, the more clear that will be. Eternal Subordination of the Son? Patriarchy? Complementarianism? Contractual membership?
BC wrote:
I was watching an interview with his wife after she wrote her book about the incident…it was very obvious that she was mad at New Life and the folks around it that they did not some how take them back into fellowship. It was almost like she was blaming them…. To me it sounds like Driscoll, gosh he puts a lot of blame on others for what happen.
Lydia wrote:
Brilliant!
Max wrote:
@ Friend:
Sorry… my computer posted prematurely.
After that generation is lost, will the next generation return? I greatly fear that the abusive (mega)churches are driving away families who have been most devoted to regular worship. Churches are so different from other groups that I wonder if the children and grandchildren of the exiles will have the curiosity and courage to come back and explore.
Of course, I do trust God to call them. But churches and families should not be driving away their fellow Christians.
Friend wrote:
Friend, it breaks my heart to see young folks returning to church, but being drawn to cult personalities and aberrant theology. When they become disillusioned with the hype, it’s going to be tough getting them to return to church again. Short of a genuine revival and spiritual awakening in America, I don’t see the church going anywhere but downhill from here. I’m referring to the organized church, not the true Church. The Bride of Christ has always found a way to worship in the midst of religious systems – you just have to have to find it. Pray for God to reveal where God’s people – the serious ones – gather in your area.
I share you concerns about spiritual folks leaving the counterfeit we see spreading across America, whether it be mega or mini. Wherever authoritarian abuse sets up shop, good people are leaving and taking their spiritual gifts with them. The largest segment of Christianity in America may very well be the “Dones” … not done with faith, just done with the 21st century false expression of it.
I was saying a few years back how Ramsey tells Christians to cut back Christmas gifts and such but then shove his books and cds in your face to purchase! Not to mention his overly expensive home. Can anyone out there tell me why I should give this man the time of day? rhmNancy2 wrote:
Max wrote:
Best advice of the century.
@ brad/futuristguy:
My take would be ESS floats to the top.
Did anyone else notice how Grace Driscoll’s smile looked forced and even strained at some points in the above video? Grace did not maintain much eye contact with the camera or Mark. Even when addressing the camera her eyes looked up and away. Despite having a mailing address in the prestigious Desert Ridge area and what appears to be an upscale home, Mark and Grace look like they have aged like a U.S. President in the last 14 months. The final moment of the video was also revealing where Mark had to visibly unclench his fist then awkwardly put his flattened palm back on his leg. Taking adulation away from a narcissist is like taking the oxygen out of the room.
Jimmy Evans needs to introduce him to his wig maker before the big Trinity Fellowship Conference. Big hair immaculately coiffed is the #1 priority if he is going to run with the TBN crowd.
Mae wrote:
I wouldn’t be surprised if that happens. Sooner or later, ESS comes up as a Trinity-based theological justification for classification and separation. So, Eternal Subordination of the Son seems to be the linchpin that keeps patriarchy, “hard complementarianism,” and maybe even other forms of social-relational-gender divisions spinning. You need to justify situations where one class shows supposed spirituality by unconditional submission to the other, and the overlord class shows supposed spirituality by accepting their elevated status and its alleged responsibilities. Insidious …
Max wrote:
Well put.
Jen wrote:
More revealing is the look on his face as he unclinches that fist in the final second or two. Bloody angry man, I’d say.
Mark’s “rehab” is certainly a coordinated effort by the Evans Morris Noble cabal. Reminds me of interlocking corporate directors on each other’s boards. No governance and no accountability, jist them and there bankrolling of Christianity against the world. Apostolic elder-stupid name.
I can’t believe Morris would tarnish himself with such a low life. Oh wait, his association with Dollar and Furtick make this ok. If it all works and there’s enough suckers to fund him, Driscoll will owe them his allegiance. He’s so pathetic in that video.
anyone else spot this?
https://twitter.com/PastorMark/status/662255303715606528
The wife God gives you is your reward for all your earthly toil. Eccl 9:9
5:09 AM – 5 Nov 2015
I’d never seen him invoking Ecclesiastes 9:9 in this way in the past. Kinda reads like a prooftext for trophy wives. This sort of glib twitter theologizing does not look like improvement.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
Word.
Daisy wrote:
I kinda suspect that you may be right…..
elastigirl wrote:
Too true….. 🙁
A. Stacy wrote:
I think you hit the nail right on the head.
@ elastigirl:
sort of … but those types tend to ignore Paul when he wrote that marriage was optional and that if you didn’t marry you were in key respects better off.
Daisy wrote:
It doesn’t sound arrogant to say what you think. I’ve been beating that same drum. I think that Christians waste too much time in wringing their hands over this or that celeb abuser who uses the name of Christ to more efficiently gain access to His followers so as to harm them. When someone stresses “It’s all about Jesus”, almost like a mantra, I tend the think it’s not about Jesus at all for them.
marquis wrote:
As a business professor at a large university, I can tell you that while I agree with Ramsey that Americans tend to be over-leveraged, that on the whole his financial advice is rudimentary and not particularly insightful. As a Christian, I can tell you that after an initial interest in him a decade ago, I’ve come to think of Ramsey as a full-blooded phony.
So, I wouldn’t give him the time of day.
A.Stacy wrote:
His wife and children were not asked to leave. Being the submissive wife she chose to go with him. These guys sure like to have the little woman on stage to show what a good husband they are. Most of these wives appear to be overly timit… downcast
Speaking to the Happy little Christmas video from Mark and Grace… did you really have to mention some sort of giving 5 times? Who made you a pastor and why are you not under church discipline? Who are the total idiots who are following you and do you realize that your Christmas video makes you look like the phonies you are; the modern day Paul and Jan of Trinity Broadcast? ! Where is Christ in any church anymore? And why do these same old deceivers keep reinventing themselves and some stupid pastor somewhere hires them? Doesn’t anyone pray and read their Bible for themselves anymore?
BOOM…
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/warrenthrockmorton/2015/12/13/mark-driscoll-listed-as-director-of-newly-incorporated-the-trinity-church-in-phoenix/
@ A. Stacy:
Trinity, as in Mark Drisccoll (father), Jimmy Evans (son), and Randall Taylor (holy spirit)?
I read the article. It says “no members”. Does that mean that this trinity will have Absolute power?
it would seem that this man, Mark Driscol, isn`t going away any time soon!
well at least if one is living in the US that is!