Sounds like if the courts/police were not involved, they would have gone by the Dino Rizzo playbook and had him just take a sabbatical, but not admit the whole truth.

” At the 54 minute mark, he told them he recognizes his need for a sabbatical as an expression of his weakness in God that He has appointed so that his hope, his strength, and his life come only from Him and not from his own energies and gifting. ”

What in the world does that gobbledygook even mean? Is it even a valid sentence in the English language? I have tried, but I can not parse this ‘sentence’ and get any meaning out of it, other than this guy is a blithering moron (that’s a Gospel insult, BTW).

I think it is safe to say that Emerson’s wife and children, if any, are victims of prostitution. The double standards are indeed glaring. I guess it’s only a problem if you are married to the person who sinned like Karen Hinckley.

Do these guys have any idea what it sounds like to the average working person when they say they need a sabbatical? Keven DeYoung has been taking a summer break and he only has four weeks left. Left! How many pewpeons get to work fewer than 5 days per week and get a sabbatical/study break in addition to their vacation and paid trips? On another thread, we talked about men leaving the church. Gramp3 says this one example of the reason. Men who live in the real world have nothing in common with these over-privileged and entitled men who think they are working so very hard.

The evangelicals and Catholics and other denominations have placed their ministers on a pedestal to the point these guys ( and sometimes ladies) think they can do no wrong.

I do not trust most paid ( and many unpaid) ministers any farther than I can throw a KCS freight trains that run by my house.

Is it just me, but the favorite sermon of these guys is TITHE!

Deb wrote:

@ Gram3:

As of July 12th, Emerson was going to get his full salary plus the suggestion was made that congregants might consider giving money directly to the Emersons to help pay for travel while they were on sabbatical. Not sure where any of this stands now.

“Travel” = legal fund, I bet

“Sabbatical”=jail, I bet

N NECOLETTOS is Nathan Necolettos, a 37 year old police officer with Chesterfield County. It is unclear whether he was the undercover “prostitute” or merely the arresting officer.

Velour wrote:

roebuck wrote:
What in the world does that gobbledygook even mean?
In a word it means: LYING.

Yes. Just say Christian-y religous-y words and hope to weasel out of whatever fix you’ve gotten yourself in. Why oh why do these people have any credibility at all?

roebuck wrote:

Velour wrote:

roebuck wrote:
What in the world does that gobbledygook even mean?
In a word it means: LYING.

Yes. Just say Christian-y religous-y words and hope to weasel out of whatever fix you’ve gotten yourself in. Why oh why do these people have any credibility at all?

roebuck wrote:

Velour wrote:

roebuck wrote:
What in the world does that gobbledygook even mean?
In a word it means: LYING.

Yes. Just say Christian-y religous-y words and hope to weasel out of whatever fix you’ve gotten yourself in. Why oh why do these people have any credibility at all?

With much of the world, including unbelievers, they have NO credibility. And neither does Christ if this is the *best* His followers can do. This is what *using the Lord’s name in vain* truly means, not a cuss word.

Velour wrote:

With much of the world, including unbelievers, they have NO credibility. And neither does Christ if this is the *best* His followers can do. This is what *using the Lord’s name in vain* truly means, not a cuss word.

And that is the depth of their sin – that they make Christianity out to look clownish. The world sees this blithering, this hypocrisy, and just rolls its eyes and says ‘see, it’s all ignorant nonsense for gullible sheep’. God help them, because they are far gone.

roebuck wrote:

Velour wrote:

With much of the world, including unbelievers, they have NO credibility. And neither does Christ if this is the *best* His followers can do. This is what *using the Lord’s name in vain* truly means, not a cuss word.

And that is the depth of their sin – that they make Christianity out to look clownish. The world sees this blithering, this hypocrisy, and just rolls its eyes and says ‘see, it’s all ignorant nonsense for gullible sheep’. God help them, because they are far gone.

The world looks at it all and says, “They’re in it for the money.” An attorney I know, who came to the U.S. from a foreign country, has repeatedly said that if he wanted to get rich in America he would have *opened a church*!

Deb wrote:

Then along came the internet.

Bingo! Thank you Deb and Dee for all that you do – you have opened many many eyes to the weirdness that is going on today and passing as ‘Christian’. All the time and work you put into this site… is totally worth it! Thank you, and thank you!

dee wrote:

roebuck wrote:
Thank you, and thank you!
Thank you for reading. We weren’t sure if anyone would be interested.

I imagine that when you started this blog you might not have known the depth of what you were tapping into. So many hurting and broken people, broken by their ‘church’.

Now these folks know that they are not alone, that they have been abused, basically, That what happened to them with their ‘church’ is not at all what Christ meant for His Church to be. How has it all gotten so crazy?

Good stuff, Deebs, really good work…

roebuck wrote:

dee wrote:

roebuck wrote:
Thank you, and thank you!
Thank you for reading. We weren’t sure if anyone would be interested.

I imagine that when you started this blog you might not have known the depth of what you were tapping into. So many hurting and broken people, broken by their ‘church’.

Now these folks know that they are not alone, that they have been abused, basically, That what happened to them with their ‘church’ is not at all what Christ meant for His Church to be. How has it all gotten so crazy?

Good stuff, Deebs, really good work…

Amen to ALL of that! Kudos ladies!

dee wrote:

his family has to be an example.”

Well, he might have had his house in order, his wife all submitted and children all obeying like. It was himself that wasn’t in order. Perhaps if he had spent half the time getting himself in order that he spent trying to force order on others in his home and church things might be different.

The fruit of the Spirit includes self-control, not ordering about others.

What we don’t know is
Male or Female prostitute?
Has he done this kind of thing before?
When did Matthew find out about it?
Is Matthew part of the cover up?
Will Gene be paid by KingsWay in any way after his resignation.
Will this finally be the end of KingsWay?

I have questions.

When did Gene Emerson confess to church staff? After he got arrested? So now he’s repenting because he got caught? Well, sort of repenting, because he’s contesting some part of this.

So it took about 6 wks from his arrest until the sermon where they discussed sabbatical to the congregation.

At what point was it determined that he was unfit for ministry? Once the guilty verdict came in? Or before that?

Why did it take from the July 12 sermon until the August 9 announcement – 28 days – for the church to formally announce he was unfit for ministry?

The phrase, “many of us have done far worse” is sin leveling. Um, no, people in the congregation are not the lead pastor, caring for souls.

And the title, “The Goal of our Suffering?” Suffering and taking a paid sabbatical?

They have such weird lingo at SGM: “We honored our members by going into much more length last night.”

READ: You need to be members to get the important stuff (and he does a membership push – ugh).

Thrilled to see that they allowed a woman to read Scripture in front of men.

I’m still listening to the sermon and he’s talking about rejoicing in suffering. Now I’m assuming he’s talking about the church’s suffering as they are going through the Emerson situation. Does anyone else find it weird to rejoice in suffering because their senior pastor screwed up (maybe literally oops)? When I normally think of suffering, I tend to think of outside events, illness, trauma, financial woes, life’s concerns, things outside one’s control, etc, but it’s strange to me to put this situation under “suffering.”

Surprised that Brent hasn’t jumped on this. In his documents, he cites Gene Emerson as one of the primary figures in the downfall of his (Brent’s) Mooresville church plant.

@ AnonInNC:

Brent’s wife is fighting breast cancer right now. I would think that writing blog articles are not high priority for him at the moment.

Caught with a prostie a la Jimmy Swaggart.

Think he’ll suddenly be Called to Plant a New Church just like Jimmy?

Did Matthew put Gene’s name up on a power point presentation to discuss him and his errant ways? How else can he be brought into the Kingsway “care” err I mean control. Oh that’s right, Gene’s a manogawd who just had a “significant lapse in judgement” and is above the pewpeons.

Deb wrote:

@ roebuck:

It’s called SGMese and is probably taught in their Pastors College. These guys have a speaking/writing style all their own. I think it puts their followers in a trance.

Sounds like Newspeak.

Julie Anne wrote:

They have such weird lingo at SGM: “We honored our members by going into much more length last night.”
READ: You need to be members to get the important stuff (and he does a membership push – ugh).

The other way to read this is: “We specifically DIS-honored the members by hiding the truth as long as we could.”

“But eventually we felt pressured by the fact that police records are open to the public, so then we decided to say something, because it would look worse to keep covering up for this crime. (So we delayed long enough to have a wordsmithing party where the sufficient amount of ‘christianese’ spin was put on it). We added the word “honor” in the announcement as an afterthought, so as to distract you members from our real motives and actions, which was to tell as little as possible all along.”

The statement that Gene has never had a sabbatical before is not true. Back before email and cellphones, PDI sent Gene and his family on a three month sabbatical. We were told not to contact them during that time. Dan Stolldorf took over while Gene was gone. Matthew was only six or seven when this occurred, so I'm sure he's unaware of it. The odd thing is that we were told that they would encourage pastors to take sabbaticals from time to time, but I don't think that ever happened again during the short time we were there.

I'm wondering when Matthew found out about this. It looks as if he may have been blindsided, possibly finding out after the sabbatical speech. I asked some friends who still live in the area and read the paper every day; they've seen nothing in the paper about it.

Mark wrote:

The other way to read this is: “We specifically DIS-honored the members by hiding the truth as long as we could.”
“But eventually we felt pressured by the fact that police records are open to the public, so then we decided to say something, because it would look worse to keep covering up for this crime. (So we delayed long enough to have a wordsmithing party where the sufficient amount of ‘christianese’ spin was put on it). We added the word “honor” in the announcement as an afterthought, so as to distract you members from our real motives and actions, which was to tell as little as possible all along.”

Nailed it.

__

The fruit of the Spirit now includes condoms, lubricating oil, and paid parking?

—

singleman wrote:

I’ll get five days per year once I pass the five-year mark, although I hope and pray I’m in a much better job long before then.

That does not sound normal for a full-time job at all. I always received one week of vacation after a year of employment.

Velour wrote:

Deb wrote:
@ Velour:
This may be a foreshadowing of things to come…
You know, I have repeatedly said I will start a Sunday morning bowling team.
This just may do it.

Mmmmm. Label each bowling pin with the name of a so-called man of God, and you’ll get a lot of strikes!

Nancy2 wrote:

Velour wrote:

Deb wrote:
@ Velour:
This may be a foreshadowing of things to come…
You know, I have repeatedly said I will start a Sunday morning bowling team.
This just may do it.

Mmmmm. Label each bowling pin with the name of a so-called man of God, and you’ll get a lot of strikes!

Tarnish perfectly good bowling balls! Never!!!

There is SO much going on here …….
“Innocent of any illicit activity” ????? Well, yeah. He probably got arrested BEFORE any actual “activity” could happen!
Was this the first time he’d ever solicited a prostitute? I doubt it.
Victims?? Yep, his wife, family, and church members — great example for the young people in the church!
Mission trip to Bolivian??? Are there prostitutes in Bolivia? Isn’t prostitution legal there???
Paid sabbatical??? Yep. He can afford more prostitutes in an undisclosed location.
He may be working on saving his marriage because SGM and TGC don’t pay big bucks to divorcees.
Can’t blame his wife if she runs him into the ground.

Mark wrote:

“B. Any person who offers money or its equivalent to another for the purpose of engaging in s*xual acts as enumerated in subsection A and thereafter does any substantial act in furtherance thereof is guilty of solicitation of prostitution”
So the ‘does any substantial act in furtherance’ is a very important distinction, no?

Mark, here’s a case law which may help you understand the legal phrase you asked a question about. It’s from Virginia. It is ONLY for the purposes of understanding this phrase. I don’t have time to look for Virginia case law that has a similar fact pattern to the charges the Virginia pastor is facing for soliciting prostitution.

Warning, it does contain graphic S*XUAL content, so folks don’t open it if you can’t handle it.

http://courts.state.va.us/opinions/opncavtx/0780961.txt

When was the last time an SGM leader confessed to anything when he wasn’t under the gun? The fact that they didn’t tell the church until 2.5 months after the arrest and a month after the trial/plea deal. They obviously did hide it, although I am quite sure they don’t see it that way. They are only “protecting an elder” and “serving” the congregation.

Jenn Grover wrote:

When was the last time an SGM leader confessed to anything when he wasn’t under the gun? The fact that they didn’t tell the church until 2.5 months after the arrest and a month after the trial/plea deal. They obviously did hide it, although I am quite sure they don’t see it that way. They are only “protecting an elder” and “serving” the congregation.

The congregation would be better “served” by not allowing a bunch of criminals to lead them!

“though he has humbly acknowledged a significant lapse in judgement regarding his conduct throughout the situation.”

“Gene has faithfully shepherded our church”

“What matters is not whether hard times come, but whether a church walks through them with integrity, humility,”

“We are committed to leading with humility and transparency.”

“Upholding the glory of God by protecting the reputation of the gospel and the reputation of our church”
Sorry Matt, too late. Closing the barn door after the animals have all escaped comes to mind. So does train-wreck.

These statements are the direct fruit of the 9 month “Pastors College” that Matthew Williams attended. SGM-speak 101. Undoubtedly Matthew passed the course with flying colors.

And then the best quote from the whole statement:

“And when times get tough, a family pulls together. If you’re a dad, if you’re a pastor, if you’re a leader, you don’t run. You don’t take the easy road.”

Right. Exhibit “A” in the SGM legacy – C.J. Mahaney.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUE4v1rUpSM

Hmmm. A narcissist tactic. Blame working hard (for them) for his crime. And throw the implication of not enough marital sex into the mix.

Too bad he also did not care about the prostitute's soul.

refugee wrote:

What’s that scripture about suffering for righteousness’ sake? And being sure not to suffer for doing something evil…

19 For it is commendable if someone bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because they are conscious of God. 20 But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. (I Peter 2)

14 If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. 15 If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler. 16 However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name. 17 For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? (I Peter 4)

I guess this qualifies as a tactical defeat for Complementarianism and the Gospel™.

But the congregation there can surely take comfort in the fact that they are merely small potatoes in Piper–errr God’s grand scheme which is the final triumph of Reformed theology over all.

dee wrote:

@ Truth:
We are going to find out who Nathan is! Can you imagine the shock at TGC if Gene solicited a male? Would his church be reported to the TGC police for not sticking to a gender appropriate complementarian solicitation?

LOL.

Solicitation of a female is normal behavior, subject to sin-leveling and having the elders cover your donkey while going on sabbatical.

Solicitation of a male, of course, is grounds for eternal damnation.

They’re so far up their own donkeys.

Todd Wilhelm wrote:

take a sabbatical from that church equal in length to Gene Emerson’s sabbatical. Feel free to check out other churches in the area while on your sabbatical. You may be surprised to discover how much good it will do your soul. Do not feel guilty…

If you don’t want to leave the church I would recommend you at least stop your financial contributions for the duration of Gene Emerson’s sabbatical.

If only they could know this and do this. If only they could see and understand these words
The Bible speaks of songs of deliverance.
People don’t just need deliverance from faceless ‘demons’, sins, addictions, etc. People need deliverance from men and their systems of order masquerading as something divine or holy.

http://www.kvue.com/story/news/local/2015/02/06/local-pastor-arrested-for-drunk-driving/22989181/

http://www.kgw.com/story/news/2015/01/21/youth-pastor-arrested-sex-abuse-charges/22123687/

http://fox59.com/2015/01/26/brownsburg-pastor-arrested-for-theft-from-goodwill/

http://www.wcnc.com/story/news/crime/2015/04/19/kannapolis-youth-pastor-arrested-on-child-sex-charges/26028671/

http://www.macon.com/2015/05/06/3732331/macon-pastor-arrested-for-rape.html

http://www.jconline.com/story/news/crime/2015/07/11/church-music-pastor-arrested-voyeurism/30013533/

What do these links all have in common? They are all crimes committed by pastors in 2015. What else do they have in common? I couldn’t find where any of them had been covered by TWW.What else do they have in common? I couldn’t find where any of the churches involved are YRR/TGC/SGM/9Marks. Yet these churches were all evangelical churches. And there are some really heinous crimes here too. Child sex abuse in a couple of articles, drunk driving, voyeurism. TWW hasn’t covered any of these scandals but when a SGM pastor sins, well its “Another Day, Another SGM Sex Scandal.” Why?

As I see it, its Another Day, Another Effort to Disparage and Take Down a Particular Segment of Christendom With Which TWW Disagrees. Its all about Watching for Warts, Dissecting Calvinists Since 2009.

Readers, just be aware of the bias.

The fact is, as demonstrated by a five minute web search of the phrase “Pastor arrested 2015”, pastors from all backgrounds and denominations sin in grievous and disqualifying ways. There are systemic faults in doctrine and practice in all kinds of churches which produce environments ripe for various types of abuse. This is true in any sort of organizational structure where humans are involved. I dare say had I searched the phrase “Teacher arrested 2015” I would have probably gotten more hits than for pastors. Every human institution is going to have people who sin, who fail, who go astray, who deny by their lifestyle the principles of the organization they represent. Christianity is no different and we even see in the Bible examples of those who sinned grievously and fell away from the faith.

So the question is, what is TWW here to do? Is it here to protect children or is it here to be an echo chamber for all those who have a bone to pick with the YRR? If child sex abuse is the focus, then articles should have been published about at least some of the easily attainable stories I published in the links above. Research should have been done to warn congregations whether there were any abusive practices in these churches which led to the moral failures of these pastors. Was anything covered up?

If TWW exists to, as the tag line says, “Dissect Christian Trends,” where is the Christian part of that, because it is clear that the focus of TWW is on the YRR and its various movements. Again, as I have said before, a cursory scrolling through the articles here shows a focus on the YRR that almost borders on obsession. This article published above is a good example. A Pastor soliciting a prostitute, though horrible, in all likelihood has nothing to do with denomination or a particular theology. It has to do with a sinful person indulging their sin. This kind of thing is seen across denominational lines. And yet, because Emerson was SGM, he gets front page headlines on TWW. And then all the associations are made. First, in the title, “Another Day, Another Sex Scandal.” So this guy and his sinful libido is linked with the terrible child sex scandal at SGM. You see, this thing happens all the time at SGM, its just another day, another scandal. Then all the associations are made with the church, indicting 9marks and SBTS and TGC. It’s all quite disingenuous. This article is almost a perfect storm, isn’t it? If only somehow John Piper could be directly implicated you’d have it all.

TWW can do some really good things but there is good reason to take it all with a very big grain of salt.

dee wrote:

The regular SGM members sacrificed and served that organization. If this had been one of them, there would be no fund raising for a sabbatical.

Only a pile of rocks in front of all for the Filthy SINNER.

“I THANK THEE, LOORD, THAT I AM NOTHING LIKE THAT FILTHY PEWPEON OVER THERE!!!!!”

Truth wrote:

Lapse of Judgement

“Mistakes were made…”
— Slick Willie Clinton

js wrote:

Again, as I have said before, a cursory scrolling through the articles here shows a focus on the YRR that almost borders on obsession.

That is an odd defense of the YRR who seem to obsess over a few issues. In fact, those very few issues are their distinctive. You only seem to comment in order to vigorously defend the YRR and the Gospel Glitterati. Are you obsessed with their defense?

@ js:

Nice try JS. You even used lots of words. It is simply a matter of current power and reach. The Neo Cal movement has been growing leaps and bounds among youth in some very nefarious ways and claims to have the true Gospel. It involves some large seminaries. Just look at how many followers Piper has on twitter as one example and his creepy influence.. And they are so obvious with their hotel California churches. The only thing that shocks me at this point is that CLC still exists. Do people really give them money?

Be patient. Other thought reform movements are gaining ground. Just think, a YRR darling, Driscoll of Acts 29, is hanging with another creepy movement. There will be all sorts of connecting lines on the Evangelical map to cover. Just give it time.

@ js:

Member of Kingsway? I love it when the church/pastor is written about. You see the faithful who can’t admit the wrong, the carnage or hubris? Instead you circle the wagons and dig the trenches. JS I’d love to solicit your advice as to why you are a member of Kingsway? 😛

lydia wrote:

There will be all sorts of connecting lines on the Evangelical map to cover. Just give it time.

Well, we already have Piper with Doug Wilson. That is creepy. I suspect that the lines which connect them will be money, influence, and power. Doctrine is a means and not the main point. It will be compromised if it is necessary to protect the money, influence and power of the men at the top. Which also protects the self-esteem of those who derive their identities from those men or those Systems instead of from Christ.

dee wrote:

They have been most effective in getting their faces in social media. They jump up and down to get recognized and so the

JS, I forgot about this. They are constantly hawking books, promoting conferences and begging us to be taught by them on social media. It only makes sense to check them out and analyze their teaching. Don’t worry about it. Their followers will be told not to listen/read others who don’t agree with them. Their followers are taught to obey elders and such or be disciplined. A few brave souls have opted for neither.

Gram3 wrote:

r. Doctrine is a means and not the main point.

. And many young “true believers” will have a big wake-up call.

js wrote:

What do these links all have in common? They are all crimes committed by pastors in 2015. What else do they have in common? I couldn’t find where any of them had been covered by TWW.What else do they have in common? I couldn’t find where any of the churches involved are YRR/TGC/SGM/9Marks

The Wartburg Watch is a volunteer-run organization. They make no money off it. It is truly a labor of love. They can’t cover every story, including the ones you cited. Why didn’t you start a blog and cover them? Why did you wait for a secular organization to cover them?

I am aware of YRR/TGC/SGM/9Marks churches in sex abuse scandals, particular child sexual abuse scandals. I have no doubt that given their authoritarian nature that we will hear many more.

Most troubling is the fact that the Kings Way leadership didn’t bluntly tell the membership, “Pastor Gene Emerson was arrested for soliciting prostitution. He is biblically disqualified from being a pastor. [Cite appropriate Scripture verses.]
He has been terminated from his job here. We will continue to take care of his wife and children and provide for their financial and spiritual needs. We will minister to Gene and seek appropriate help for his sexual sin. Would the entire church please continue to keep the Emerson family and the church leadership in prayer.”

Tell it like it is! That buys respect from believers and unbelievers!

Deb asked, ‘In his Sunday message Matthew emphasized the statement above about many of them doing far worse than Gene Emerson. To what is he referring – the child sex allegations? What does he mean by the statement “Many of us have done far worse”?’
Reading gowsipy gowsip blogs like this one, perhaps?
SGM pastor Jared Mellinger, on Nov 6, 2011, preached:
“Words can do incredible damage. [A] question for the discerning. Which would be more dangerous for a Christian to be exposed to? A website devoted to sexually immoral images or a website devoted to sowing suspicion against leaders and tearing people down.”

  __

Is TWW just performing an unpaid ‘gossip rag service'(r) on this latest SGC/9Marks church leadership fopa, or are they (TWW) and their commenters providing useful and formative information, and prayful concern for those who choose to continue to attend services there?

—

@ js:
And the Kingsway Truth Squad is on full Attack Dog mode.

Fair Game Law invoked from Gold Base.

dee wrote:

Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

RANK. HATH. ITS. PRIVILEGES.

Darn straight, HUG,

And one of the Privileges of Rank is sexual rights over ALL inferiors, from Roman Paterfamiliai to Herd Bulls/Harem Bosses.

Truth wrote:

If you listen to Matthew’s comments, he makes it clear that “KingsWay is a family.”

A dysfunctional and abusive family….

@ js:
I’m at work and haven’t gone through all the links you posted yet, but just a response from what I’ve seen on the links, I see the word “arrest” in all of the url’s. They’re getting coverage and justice already. Perhaps they do deserve their own stories – nobody’s denying that. But two people can’t cover them all. Which leads me to my next point.

We all have our experiences for a reason, yes? God has placed us or brought us from unique situations that have given us a different perspective on certain aspects of Christianity. Mine happens to be hard-core fundamentalism of a few different shades and churches. These stories are relevant to me because some of the same aspects of fundamentalism that make it dangerous are present in many of these YRR churches that are appearing in the news here. I’m concerned, as several of my friends and family are involved in these kinds of places. I can’t ignore where I’ve come from and let my friends and family walk themselves and their children down the same paths I just left by the grace of God. Sure, I have a bias, we all have a bias. We’re using it here to try to warn others off from abusive environments, because many of us have already been burned – not just by people and churches, but also by doctrines.

In the same way, this website is founded by two people who have their own stories and insights which they are bringing to bear on these movements and churches. It’s simply using their past the best they can to help others’ futures.

As Dee has already said, they’ve covered a wide range of stories since TWW has been around, so your criticism is a bit unfounded. If lately coverage has been weighted more towards the YRR & friends, it’s only because it’s big and the doctrines and leaders are popular and have huge followings. The membership covenants, authoritarian leadership, stances on women, etc are all red flags to us.

To come around full circle in my point, just like I don’t want to see my friends and family walk down the same paths I walked down, I don’t think the Deebs are entirely content with just reporting on bad situations that have already happened. They also want to prevent the abuses, and one way is to air the doctrine and practices that leads to these abuses. If you disagree with their assessment of any given situation, that’s all fine and good – we’re here for discussion. But your criticism of their mission seems off base.

east stop your financial contributions for the duration of Gene Emerson’s sabbatical.

@ Todd Wilhelm: Todd’s is a great idea. Pastor sabbaticals are a pet peeve of mine. Most ministers get a month of paid vacation (from the beginning of their employment) and then are off at seminars, etc. so actually don’t do a whole lot of preaching. If a person wants to be a preacher, then preach and stay and pastor your congregation. Other than university academics I know of no other job that grants sabbaticals. I think it is stupid.

Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

@ js:
And the Kingsway Truth Squad is on full Attack Dog mode.
Fair Game Law invoked from Gold Base.

I have no idea, as usual, what your reference is. Is JS really a Kingsway member? It would explain some other interaction I’ve had with him.

dee wrote:

@ Truth:
We are going to find out who Nathan is! Can you imagine the shock at TGC if Gene solicited a male? Would his church be reported to the TGC police for not sticking to a gender appropriate complementarian solicitation?

This is one of those comments that’s not funny, but funny . . .

Daisy wrote:

lydia wrote:

Don’t worry about it. Their followers will be told not to listen/read others who don’t agree with them.

Yes. Non-Christian cults do this.

Was it Scientologists, Mormons, or Jehovah’s Witnesses who made their members put special filters on their computers in the early days of the internet so that they could not view content critical of their respective groups? I read about that in articles years ago but can’t remember which group it was.

I think Scientology tried to “bury” critical web pages in search results by having jillions of their members each create a personal profile page.

The idea was searching for the word “Scientology” would lead to all the positive-sounding member profile pages, rather than “Operation Clam Bake” and whatever.

That was several years ago. I don’t know if those pages are still up.

YRR Driscoll (or he’s a former YRR now?) told his Mars Hill members to ignore or stay away from MH critical stuff because “it’s all shenanigans.”

And yet other Christian groups (YRR, usually) continuously write blog posts screaming about “discernment blogs” and how wrong and un-Christ-like it supposedly is to be critical of local churches or preachers.

Kip McKean, leader of the International Churches of Christ, referred to negative publicity about the church as “spiritual pornography”.

JS,

Please allow me to serve you by humbling pointing out your sinful heart.

Do you remember when Jared Mellinger spoke from Malachi 2:1-9 on November 6, 2011? Through his careful, humble exegesis of the text he revealed an issue that served me well by pointing out a weakness of mine and an area of sin in my life that I still struggle with today. I hope that you will prayerfully recall what Jared (one of our cherished, humble leaders whose teachings we have been graciously allowed to sit under and benefit from) taught us that day. He spoke as the very oracle of God!

Here it is, I hope it will also serve you well. “Words can do incredible damage. Question for the discerning: which would be more damaging for a Christian to be exposed to — a website devoted to sexually immoral images, or a website devoted to sowing suspicion against leaders and tearing people down? Friends, there is more than one way to ruin your soul. Avoid ungodly speech, avoid speaking it, avoid listening to it —for the sake of the holiness of the church.” Yes JS, blogs discussing SGM’s Issues may be worse for your soul than porn.

With that truth in mind JS, may I humbly ask you who is the authority over you? That is, who is watching over your soul; who is the man who must give an account for your soul on the last day? Allow me to serve you well by telling me your pastor’s name so I can tell him that you are struggling with the sin of not only reading, but commenting on a blog that is critical of SGM. Your authority figure will than be able to better hold you accountable in your weekly accountability meeting.

Also, to serve you well, I will be watching for your presence on this blog. Anytime I see a comment by you I will humbly remind you that we are both the greatest sinners we know and if we stay off these blogs we will be doing better than we deserve.

Blessings brother, I am now off to shave my head!

Velour wrote:

But are these members under a church membership covenant?

Here’s the 12-page document that lists their “Relational Commitments.” It’s a doozy. http://www.kingsway.cc/Websites/kwcc/images/About_Us/Relational_Commitments.pdf

Tina wrote:

Kip McKean, leader of the International Churches of Christ, referred to negative publicity about the church as “spiritual pornography”.

A totalist system cannot tolerate information from outside the system. It is a brittle system, and they know it just like Kip McKean knows it. And Kim Whatever in North Korea knows it. And Wayne Grudem knows it. And Robert Morris knows it.

BeenThereDoneThat wrote:

While we were there, those of us with iPhones (which I had) had to have our minister lock certain features down, including the browser, with a passcode.

Oh. My. Goodness. That’s crazy.

@ Elizabeth Lee:
That is great advice. Health care professionals encounter this all the time, and there is no need for embarrassment, though I’m certain I would feel it in her place. They, along with lawyers and police, are the ultimate realists about human nature. And so much for prostitution being a victimless crime.

“Lapse in judgment” for shepherd = Sabbatical.
“Sin” for sheep = Church Discipline.

We attended a church recently for a few months that was meeting in an elementary school. We left when we realized the whole 9 Marks thing was prominent…signing a covenant was mandatory,etc. Last month the young pastor was caught cheating with the principal of the school. She has 3 small children. He has a teenage daughter. He’s gone from church and home. As for the covenant and church discipline he was cramming down his sheep’s throats a couple of months ago? Ha! He won’t even take any calls or messages. I think he had already used up his sabbatical.

BeenThereDoneThat wrote:

Since we left our cult, they’ve required members who do have internet (usually people with businesses. No one is supposed to have it in their home.) to install Covenant Eyes so their internet use can be monitored.

That is nuts. People are grown adults. They should be able to view pretty much whatever they want news-wise / information wise online.

BeenThereDoneThat wrote:

Since we left our cult, they’ve required members who do have internet (usually people with businesses. No one is supposed to have it in their home.) to install Covenant Eyes so their internet use can be monitored.

We’re getting a similar secular rumbling from Sacramento, regarding constant monitoring to be sure we lowborns Conserve Water and Gasoline and Carbon Emissions in the Name of The Plaaaanet. Including laws coming down the chute for mandatory GPS trackers on all cars so Sacramento can punish those who drive excessively (i.e. Sin against The Plaaaaaanet). So far nobody’s been whipped naked through the streets for watering their lawn (“SINNER! SINNER! SINNER!”). Yet.

@ Velour:
Thank you for the warning. I really appreciate it. I did not open the link, but will continue to follow the discussion.

BeenThereDoneThat wrote:

Yes. While we were there, those of us with iPhones (which I had) had to have our minister lock certain features down, including the browser, with a passcode. it was the only way we were allowed to keep the iPhone.

Closest thing to that in my church is the announcement at the beginning of Mass to turn off or mute your cellphones for the duration.

Nothing like having phones go off right in the middle of the Consecration or Elevation of the Host (for Prots, those are the most sacred moments of the Mass)…

Elizabeth Lee wrote:

Liz Emerson,

If you are here reading this blog post please get yourself tested for STDs. Yes, it’s humiliating, I’ve BTDT. However, your health/life are more important than some embarrassment.

Your husband has been convicted of solicitation. That was almost certainly not his first time seeking a prostitute. It was just the first time he got caught.

Assuming Liz doesn’t have to ask her Husband/Overseer’s permission first.
“What is Thy Will, My Lord Husband? How might I better Submit?”

Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

Like Jihadis raping 12-year-olds in ISIS’s Caliphate:

Oh, that’s nothing. Target removed the boy/girl signs on the toy aisles!!!

Truth wrote:

We also know the mantra that we had preached to us, that the heart is deceitfully wicked and therefore only the leaders are capable of clearly knowing God’s will for us.

Are leaders capable because they are heartless, then?

(rhetorical question)

js wrote:

If TWW exists to, as the tag line says, “Dissect Christian Trends,” where is the Christian part of that, because it is clear that the focus of TWW is on the YRR and its various movements.

Aha! I get what you are saying! The YRR and its various movements are *not* Christian!

(pardon the sarcasm. I have a headache today.)

@ dee:
Matt Chandler’s “narcissistic zero” is still my current favorite.

Elizabeth Lee wrote:

BeenThereDoneThat wrote:
While we were there, those of us with iPhones (which I had) had to have our minister lock certain features down, including the browser, with a passcode.
Oh. My. Goodness. That’s crazy.

I never experienced anything like that during my time there – never heard of it happening and never saw it.

They have taken it down–surprise, surprise–but you can still see a copy of the letter Matthew sent to the church members about Gene’s sabbatical. Google “gene emerson sabbatical.” Then under the first result, click “Cached” under the little green arrow.

Velour wrote:

The language in the Virginia criminal code is inclusively written as “person” for the purposes of soliciting prostitution.

The Virgina criminal code is incorrect, as written, and needs to be revised to reflect modern times. A stand up comic explained it this way. He said that there is no such thing or action as “soliciting prostitution.” The sex is always free. You are simply offering to pay the “person” to go away after the sex.

Tina wrote:

Kip McKean, leader of the International Churches of Christ, referred to negative publicity about the church as “spiritual pornography”.

Funny. This phrase might be more appropriately applied to Driscoll’s teachings about the marriage relationship, or really any aberrant teaching like ESS or works-based salvation.

JulieAnne123 wrote:

They have taken it down–surprise, surprise

Ooooooo, hide and seek. One of my kids’ favorite games. I’ll post the link for you.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:DKXGVfsZbSwJ:www.kingsway.cc/genes-sabbatical+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

In other news, I’m back from Staffordshire.

refugee wrote:

@ Velour:
Thank you for the warning. I really appreciate it. I did not open the link, but will continue to follow the discussion.

Welcome.

Gram3 wrote:

Oh, that’s nothing. Target removed the boy/girl signs on the toy aisles!!!

You know how dangerous that can be: young girls may start to play with Lego blocks now.

singleman wrote:

In my congregation a pastor normally takes a three-month sabbatical leave for study and rest every seven years.

In older denominations – e.g., the Church of England – this is indeed a common practice. But one shouldn’t overlook the “study” bit. The vicar is supposed to return from sabbatical with knowledge and experience (s)he didn’t have before. As distinct from, say, a new book deal.

Daisy wrote:

BeenThereDoneThat wrote:

Matt Chandler’s “narcissistic zero” is still my current favorite.

Do indirect insults count? Some of the money grubbing preachers tell people if they don’t tithe they are ingrates, or God will sic demons on them, or allow their marriages to end in divorce.

In other words, they put a Curse on you if you don’t give them what they want.

Just like the Witches and Conjure Men and Hexerai in Manly Wade Wellman’s Appalachian weird fiction.

dee wrote:

Funniest comment of the week!

What was that strange phrase TVC used on Karen? I don’t think I saw that in his post.

His post could have really gone through the roof in excellence if he had included something like, “We want to push you under our care,” or whatever odd phrase TVC used on Karen.

Their wacko phrase that was meant to convey concern but sounded like one of those veiled threats that mafia guys like to use in the movies.
“We’re making an offer you cannot refuse,” or, “We know where your family lives.”

Elizabeth Lee wrote:

Here’s the 12-page document that lists their “Relational Commitments.” It’s a doozy. http://www.kingsway.cc/Websites/kwcc/images/About_Us/Relational_Commitments.pdf

I think that most or all of this document comes from model documents provided by Peacemaker Ministries, peacemaker.net. Go to this page, “Church Policies that Promote Peacemaking”, http://peacemaker.net/project/church-policies-that-promote-peacemaking, and you will see paragraph #2., “Adopt biblical **Relational Commitments** so that you can live out your convictions of biblical church government and mutual accountability without government interference.”
This has a link to another page: http://peacemaker.net/project/relational-commitments/
Finally, at the bottom of that page is the link to the PDF file of a booklet with most or all of the text found at Kingsway’s website: http://peacemaker.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Relational_Commitments.pdf

Gram3 wrote:

Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

@ js:
And the Kingsway Truth Squad is on full Attack Dog mode.
Fair Game Law invoked from Gold Base.

I have no idea, as usual, what your reference is. Is JS really a Kingsway member? It would explain some other interaction I’ve had with him.

Don’t know for certain, but his behavior here sure arouses that suspicion. If you find others we’ve never seen before signing on to post the same Anathemas word-for-word, that would confirm it.

As for the Clamspeak references:
* Fair Game Law – all Enemies (and dissidents) of Scientology are fair game.
* Gold Base – Scientology HQ (one of many sites). “Flag” is the head of Scientology himself.

When your church has parallels to Scientology, you might want to rethink things.

refugee wrote:

Truth wrote:

If only people from KingsWay would read these blogs. They have been instructed not to.

That’s a page right out of Doug Phillips’ book.

Doug Phillips ESQUIRE(TM) who cosplayed as General Patton and went down in a sex scandal for Keeboarping his teenage Commander’s Handmaid under Cover of Authority? (Since he never actually put tab A into slot B – just Onaned over her – he could wipe his mouth and proclaim “I have not Sinned – I did not Know her in a Biblical Sense”. Spoken like a lawyer looking for a loophole.)

Daisy wrote:

Gram3 wrote:

Oh, that’s nothing. Target removed the boy/girl signs on the toy aisles!!!

You know how dangerous that can be: young girls may start to play with Lego blocks now.

I remember stepping on Lego blocks back in the 1960s. Ouch!

Daisy wrote:

Gram3 wrote:
Oh, that’s nothing. Target removed the boy/girl signs on the toy aisles!!!
You know how dangerous that can be: young girls may start to play with Lego blocks now.

Well, the fact is that Concerned Christians who shop on the Lego aisle at Target capitulated to culture a long time ago. The “girl” Legos are sold right there alongside the “boy” Legos and have been for quite a while. What is a Christian parent to do if their son picks up a pink or purple brick? What if their daughter picks up a blue brick that wasn’t in the girl set? These are the kinds of questions that keep parents up at night. So I am thankful that CBMW is working on this crucial issue.

  __

Forget the STD’s, it will be like starting over?

https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=rwoVdMFQ_Ns

—

Gram3 wrote:

What is a Christian parent to do if their son picks up a pink or purple brick? What if their daughter picks up a blue brick that wasn’t in the girl set? These are the kinds of questions that keep parents up at night.

In our home, what hasn’t already been sucked up by the vacuum cleaner or tossed under the furniture by the cats (which will also, eventually, be sucked up by the vacuum cleaner) is all mixed up together. My girls and boys play with all colors. The creative capacity is endless. I sleep fine at night, but if CBMW wants to knock themselves out . . .

BeenThereDoneThat wrote:

but if CBMW wants to knock themselves out

I think they will eventually knock themselves out. Before that, thinking people will tune them out if they have not already done so. What I have discovered is that most people in the churches have never heard of CBMW.

Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

Daisy wrote: Do indirect insults count? Some of the money grubbing preachers tell people if they don’t tithe they are ingrates, or God will sic demons on them, or allow their marriages to end in divorce.

HUG wrote: In other words, they put a Curse on you if you don’t give them what they want.

Just like the Witches and Conjure Men and Hexerai in Manly Wade Wellman’s Appalachian weird fiction.

And on that last one, from what I read recently, the last one is a fairly safe bet for a prophecy, as the statistics seem to show that the divorce rate for fundamentals and evangelicals is higher than average. (average who? not sure if it was everybody, or non-churchgoers) Or something like that. I’m too lazy to seek out the actual statistics today, but I remember being struck at reading this the other day.

@ Gram3:
And @Velour

I don’t remember any of this being a big deal 40 years ago. My brother played house with my sister and I with our dolls and home made kitchenette. And we’d play with my brother’s enviable collection of Matchbox cars; driving around cities made of Legos, Tinkertoys, and Lincoln Logs. That is when we weren’t riding our bicycles around the neighborhood for hours until the streetlights came on signaling that it was time to return home for dinner.

I hope people do tune out CBMW or their kids might need therapy when they’re grown.

BeenThereDoneThat wrote:

@ Gram3:
And @Velour
I don’t remember any of this being a big deal 40 years ago. My brother played house with my sister and I with our dolls and home made kitchenette. And we’d play with my brother’s enviable collection of Matchbox cars; driving around cities made of Legos, Tinkertoys, and Lincoln Logs. That is when we weren’t riding our bicycles around the neighborhood for hours until the streetlights came on signaling that it was time to return home for dinner.
I hope people do tune out CBMW or their kids might need therapy when they’re grown.

I grew up in a nice quiet residential area where it seemed every household had 5, 7, 9 kids (never seems to have been an even number for some reason) – my family had 7. You got home from school, changed your clothes, wandered out onto the street, and in minutes had a gang of kids. One of the important elements of my growing up (insofar as I’ve grown up – hey, I’m only 60!) was sandlot games of touch football and baseball…

Anyway, I have 3 smart and beautiful sisters, the youngest of whom, in addition to being beautiful and very smart was also strong and fast and highly agile and coordinated. When we chose up sides for our various games, she was among the first ‘draft picks’, as it were. Kids’ sandlot ballgames in the 60’s were the ultimate meritocracy! 🙂

elastigirl wrote:

may I ask the name of this ‘cult’?
are they on the TGC list, by chance?

It’s called Homestead Heritage. TWW did a post on it in 2012. They aren’t associated with TGC in any way. In fact, they’re very different theologically. Their core beliefs are Oneness Pentecostal, but their lifestyle resembles the Amish or Mennonites. They are very heavily into Shepherding, which is where I see a lot of similarities between HH and SGM.

roebuck wrote:

’m going to have to remember that phrase for the next time I seriously screw up… I mean, experience a lapse in judgement.

Yeah, try it in a real job.

Elizabeth Lee wrote:

Velour wrote:

But are these members under a church membership covenant?

Here’s the 12-page document that lists their “Relational Commitments.” It’s a doozy. http://www.kingsway.cc/Websites/kwcc/images/About_Us/Relational_Commitments.pdf

Thanks, Elizabeth. I will read it later.

refugee wrote:

Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

Daisy wrote: Do indirect insults count? Some of the money grubbing preachers tell people if they don’t tithe they are ingrates, or God will sic demons on them, or allow their marriages to end in divorce.

HUG wrote: In other words, they put a Curse on you if you don’t give them what they want.

Just like the Witches and Conjure Men and Hexerai in Manly Wade Wellman’s Appalachian weird fiction.

And on that last one, from what I read recently, the last one is a fairly safe bet for a prophecy, as the statistics seem to show that the divorce rate for fundamentals and evangelicals is higher than average. (average who? not sure if it was everybody, or non-churchgoers) Or something like that. I’m too lazy to seek out the actual statistics today, but I remember being struck at reading this the other day.

I believe that was Barna’s research showing that born-again Christians, and specifically Baptists, had a higher divorce rate than atheists.

Velour wrote:

Exactly! The CBMW and their ilk teaches/preaches: “Shehad” (sounds like Jihad).

I wonder if “Shehad” is Hebrew for “Jihad”. The two languages are closely-related in the Semitic language family, and the three-consonant roots (“shd” and “jhd”) are similar.

mirele wrote:

I remember stepping on Lego blocks back in the 1960s. Ouch!

I played with Lego when I was a kid. I actually didn’t care for too many of the toys made specifically for girls.

My mother kept trying to get me interested in dolls, so she’d buy me Barbies, but I never was into those.

Nick Bulbeck wrote:

In other news, I’m back from Staffordshire.

In other news, “God’s” recipe for Yorkshire Pudding is now immortalized at the top of the page under the Interesting tab, then choose Cooking.

I was strongly *rebuked* by Beakerj that one could not possibly have a salad with roast beef, gravy, and Yorkshire Pudding. (Look it, I live near the ocean in a sunny and warm climate, we eat a lot of salads!) Beakerj’s menu suggestions have been added to the Yorkshire Pudding recipe menu:

broccoli, carrots, peas, roasted potatoes and perhaps roasted parsnips

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

May the aroma of Yorkshire Pudding baking in homes across America be a pleasing aroma to You. (We’ll try not to burn the edges.)

That should read How many “lapses of judgement”

__

For further commentary:

http://www.sgmsurvivors.com/2015/08/12/kingsway-pastor-convicted-of-solicitation-of-prostitution/

—

Any Bob Seger fans here in the house?
Here’s an excerpt from one of his ditties that puts it all into focus:

Here comes the rich man in his big long limousine
Here comes the poor man all you got to have is green
Here comes the banker and the lawyer and the cop
One thing for certain it ain’t never gonna stop
When it all gets too heavy
That’s when they come and go
With only one thing in common
They got the fire down below

GovPappy wrote:

@ js:
I’m at work and haven’t gone through all the links you posted yet, but just a response from what I’ve seen on the links, I see the word “arrest” in all of the url’s. They’re getting coverage and justice already. Perhaps they do deserve their own stories – nobody’s denying that. But two people can’t cover them all. Which leads me to my next point.
We all have our experiences for a reason, yes? God has placed us or brought us from unique situations that have given us a different perspective on certain aspects of Christianity. Mine happens to be hard-core fundamentalism of a few different shades and churches. These stories are relevant to me because some of the same aspects of fundamentalism that make it dangerous are present in many of these YRR churches that are appearing in the news here. I’m concerned, as several of my friends and family are involved in these kinds of places. I can’t ignore where I’ve come from and let my friends and family walk themselves and their children down the same paths I just left by the grace of God. Sure, I have a bias, we all have a bias. We’re using it here to try to warn others off from abusive environments, because many of us have already been burned – not just by people and churches, but also by doctrines.
In the same way, this website is founded by two people who have their own stories and insights which they are bringing to bear on these movements and churches. It’s simply using their past the best they can to help others’ futures.
As Dee has already said, they’ve covered a wide range of stories since TWW has been around, so your criticism is a bit unfounded. If lately coverage has been weighted more towards the YRR & friends, it’s only because it’s big and the doctrines and leaders are popular and have huge followings. The membership covenants, authoritarian leadership, stances on women, etc are all red flags to us.
To come around full circle in my point, just like I don’t want to see my friends and family walk down the same paths I walked down, I don’t think the Deebs are entirely content with just reporting on bad situations that have already happened. They also want to prevent the abuses, and one way is to air the doctrine and practices that leads to these abuses. If you disagree with their assessment of any given situation, that’s all fine and good – we’re here for discussion. But your criticism of their mission seems off base.

I have a similar background, and COMPLETLY agree with this post

Nickname wrote:

They say that language is always evolving, and I guess that applies to SGM-ese. “Serving” their members has given way to “honoring” them. Serving was just so overused.

I refer you to “The Principles of Newspeak”, by G.Orwell:
https://fathertheo.wordpress.com/2013/03/16/the-principles-of-newspeak-by-george-orwell/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspeak

  __

  Lord, how long shall these ungodly pastors triumph? How long shall all these unrepentant SGM/SGC pastors act so wickedly and speak so disdainfully, and make such proud boasting? They have corrupted the people, O Lord, and have troubled your heritage; deliver your children from their greedy and unclean hands, and graciously bring them to a place of safety by Your sovereign power!

In Jesus’ name!

Thank-You!

Sopy

—

Christiane wrote:

seems to me that in the Church, we need to tend to our own consciences and pray for the grace to have patience and to have the strength for self-control when tempted . . .

all this pursuit of ‘Church discipline’ seems to be focused on trying to control the behaviors of other Christians from an external loci (point), which then backfires when those doing the controlling of others reveal themselves to be just as flawed or worse than the ones they presume to correct

The idea of repentance is an internal one: a person is personally moved by the suffering of Christ on the Cross, and makes a turn away from sin and towards the light of Christ. You can’t ‘control’ this process externally. For it to be real, it has to be genuinely a matter of the conscience of the individual being moved to repentance by the Holy Spirit.

Yes, this. You speak the truth in love and trust the Holy Spirit to work in their lives if they’re a believer.

Nicely done.
Your humble recommendations to me are definitely better than I deserve.

Todd Wilhelm wrote:

JS,

Please allow me to serve you by humbling pointing out your sinful heart.

Do you remember when Jared Mellinger spoke from Malachi 2:1-9 on November 6, 2011? Through his careful, humble exegesis of the text he revealed an issue that served me well by pointing out a weakness of mine and an area of sin in my life that I still struggle with today. I hope that you will prayerfully recall what Jared (one of our cherished, humble leaders whose teachings we have been graciously allowed to sit under and benefit from) taught us that day. He spoke as the very oracle of God!

Here it is, I hope it will also serve you well. “Words can do incredible damage. Question for the discerning: which would be more damaging for a Christian to be exposed to — a website devoted to sexually immoral images, or a website devoted to sowing suspicion against leaders and tearing people down? Friends, there is more than one way to ruin your soul. Avoid ungodly speech, avoid speaking it, avoid listening to it —for the sake of the holiness of the church.” Yes JS, blogs discussing SGM’s Issues may be worse for your soul than porn.

With that truth in mind JS, may I humbly ask you who is the authority over you? That is, who is watching over your soul; who is the man who must give an account for your soul on the last day? Allow me to serve you well by telling me your pastor’s name so I can tell him that you are struggling with the sin of not only reading, but commenting on a blog that is critical of SGM. Your authority figure will than be able to better hold you accountable in your weekly accountability meeting.

Also, to serve you well, I will be watching for your presence on this blog. Anytime I see a comment by you I will humbly remind you that we are both the greatest sinners we know and if we stay off these blogs we will be doing better than we deserve.

Blessings brother, I am now off to shave my head!

dee wrote:

@ js:

1. Dissecting Christian Trends: That means churches which are making the news or churches whose people contact us. Think about it. Who is getting the news these days? Well, the YRRs are. They have been most effective in getting their faces in social media. They jump up and down to get recognized and so they do.

If you are relying on people to contact you and much of your commenting audience comes here to commiserate over their disdain for the YRR, its no wonder your posts are skewed toward criticism of the YRR. It is not really altogether true that the YRR is the big voice out there making noise. There are multitudes of voices in the Christian world, many of them doing all they can through social media to get their name and their products out there. If you search Twitter followers and other social media you’ll find other Christian personalities with far more followers than people who are regularly criticized here. <<>>I didn’t overlook anything and I aware you have covered others. But I have noticed, especially in the past year or so, a decided turn toward almost exclusive coverage of YRR topics. If you go over your list here many of the ones you listed here a majority of them are 2013 and earlier. My contention is not that you never cover other topics but that your topics over the last couple of years seem to be consumed with YRR stuff.<<>>And that’s where this Emerson story should have appeared IMO, as it was just like so many other cases in churches which I pointed out through a very simple web search. But Deb could not pass up the opportunity to impugn TGC, 9Marks, SGM, etc. because this guy couldn’t control himself. Instead we have the smarmy headline and all the false implications that come with it. My contention is this had nothing to do with SGM or the YRR. My proof is the many other fallen ministers from a variety of denominational and theological contexts. So why focus so much on this one case if there is no bias and no attempt to impugn the whole YRR crowd?<<>>Wade seems to be a good man and I strongly recommended his whole series of articles on TVC and agree heartily with him on most things. But if he were exactly who he was in every other way but held to a complementarian view, would you post his sermons? Would you listen to his wisdom in other areas?<<>>I commend you for publishing comments. That is the way things ought to be.<<>>I do lean Reformed and have benefitted from the teaching of some people who would be associated with the YRR, but I do not denounce your coverage of the YRR in general. I think it makes the movement healthier even if it doesn’t seem to affect the big dogs sometimes (I believe it does affect many even if it doesn’t appear to). You all have done some wonderful things to help victims. Where I run into trouble with you is when you cover the YRR in a way that seems obsessive or unfair. This was one of those times and since you allow comments I wanted to voice my opinion.<<>>Again, if some guy is out there saying goofy stuff under the banner of the YRR by all means he can and should be called out. But if somebody sins grievously in a way others of many theological persuasions sin and you make unfounded connections to SGM and the YRR, then I can’t help but see a bias there which could affect other reporting on this site.<<<

Daisy wrote:

@ js:

They may focus on YRR a lot on this blog, but they do sometimes cover abuse by other denominations and churches. They did a series on abuse by IFB sponsored girl schools, IIRC, a few months ago.

If you find yourself upset by the content of this blog or by some of the regular posters, you can always take a vacation from it and need read it for a few days or a week or more. I’ve done that before.

I’ve been teed off a time or two here myself, but I still recognize it’s their blog, and they can write about whatever they want. I might choose to stay out of threads if I don’t agree with the main topic, for example.

YRR is a big trend in Christendom the last decade or so. The topic was on the cover of print magazines, like Christianity Today several years ago.

Some YRR guys are, from what I’ve read, stealthily and dishonestly taking over established churches from Non-Calvinist people, and YRRs have shown a tendency to be authoritarian. I think those topics deserved to be discussed.

I totally agree that YRR topics deserve to be discussed. My point is that they should not be discussed as the sole focus of a blog whose tagline is “Dissecting Christian Trends.” In other words, the focus has been trending toward near exclusive coverage of the YRR and this can lead to unfair associations like in the original post. I’m not asking for a certain percentage but an effort to search outside the narrow bounds of the YRR for a fuller view of the Christian world.

JS wrote:

Where I run into trouble with you is when you cover the YRR in a way that seems obsessive or unfair. This was one of those times and since you allow comments I wanted to voice my opinion.<>Again, if some guy is out there saying goofy stuff under the banner of the YRR by all means he can and should be called out. But if somebody sins grievously in a way others of many theological persuasions sin and you make unfounded connections to SGM and the YRR, then I can’t help but see a bias there which could affect other reporting on this site.

Since you are free to comment here and correct any bias or misperception, then what, exactly, is the basis for your complaint? You accuse the Deebs and the commenters here of being obsessed, but from our POV, the YRR is the party with the obsession to exert their power over everyone, to take over denominations, to put more than half their pewpeons under man-made laws, etc.

If you don’t like the way YRR is portrayed here, then why not start your own blog?

Lydia wrote:

I saw a ton of spiritual abuse in seeker megas that were not Reformed. It is about power and control over others and frankly, SGM has been the poster boy for shepherding cult tactics in this day and time. Mahaney mentored quite a few of the current YRR movers and shakers.

Yes, I have seen that in a mega that is decidedly not YRR. I suspect that if the Deebs had this blog a couple of decades ago, that story would have been covered. And, no, I do not want to revisit that whole thing again because it led to even more garbage later on that we needed to take out.

It is about men who want power. Period. It happens that the Gospel Glitterati personifies that lust for power and control and suppression of dissenting views. In fact, they are the Gospel Oblitterati since the “gospel” they preach is overlaid with laws and rules and roles.

@ Gram3:
As a matter of fact, Challies and Joe Carter and how many others shut down comments or curate comments or do not allow comments because they are afraid of dissenting views. JS, have you ever called them out on that at their blogs, or are you obsessed with the Deebs?

js wrote:

I totally agree that YRR topics deserve to be discussed. My point is that they should not be discussed as the sole focus of a blog whose tagline is “Dissecting Christian Trends.”
In other words, the focus has been trending toward near exclusive coverage of the YRR and this can lead to unfair associations like in the original post.

I’m not asking for a certain percentage but an effort to search outside the narrow bounds of the YRR for a fuller view of the Christian world.

You seem all over the map here.

Deb and Dee do discuss other denominations, groups, and topics here on the blog, not YRR exclusively.

(They have a search box thing and search links on the upper right hand side of this blog where you can explore and see other churches they’ve written about.)

You say on the one hand you’re fine with them covering YRR, but then you’re not fine with it.

But then you’re OK, you say, with a certain percentage of YRR coverage, but not what is in your view “too much” of it.

How are you going to quantify this? Would you give Deb and Dee a guideline, like they are only allowed, per your permission, to post YRR-critical posts once per month, or twice every four months?

What would be an acceptable limit to you, and why do you get to dictate when and what they publish?

No offense to Deb and Dee her, ahem, 🙂 ,but I’m not a large supporter of the Young Earth Creationist posts they do every so often, but I just stay out of those threads, by and large.

It’s their blog and they can blog about that if they like. It’s not my place to tell them they can only bash YRR “x” times per month. Though if it was every other post, I’d probably take long vacations from the blog. 🙂

They have posted before on other non-YRR groups.

You said,
“exclusive coverage of the YRR and this can lead to unfair associations like in the original post”

I’d have to go back and reread the original post. I’m not sure off hand if I can or could agree that their linking this to some YRR movement or another is necessarily false or unfair.

Do you know a funny thing happened when I posted many months ago on social media a story about a YRR / Calvinist preacher who was arrested for exposing himself to a kid in public?

A YRR guy replied to me that by posting that news story, I was making YRR / Calvinism look bad. The guy was all concerned for the reputation of Calvinism, not that some guy was perving on kids!

I hope you can see how utter devotion or unquestioning loyalty and acceptance to a particular preacher, church, or system of theology (or aversion to such being criticized) can blind you to a bigger picture or injustices in the world (which is pretty scary, I think).

Daisy wrote:

It’s their blog and they can blog about that if they like. It’s not my place to tell them they can only bash YRR “x” times per month. Though if it was every other post, I’d probably take long vacations from the blog

Ooh, a type there.
I meant “YEC” there, not YRR. (Young Earth Creationism)

If you guys be interested in the topic of church discipline. I wrote a post about the upcoming 9 Marks SEBTS Church Discipline conference. I also analyzed Jonathan Leeman’s article on church discipline and the para church. The question I pose is this…do organizations like the Navigators or Cru have a right to exist?

https://wonderingeagle.wordpress.com/2015/08/14/sebts-church-discipline-conference-9-marks-jonathan-leeman-and-eric-cartman-say-respect-my-authoritah/

__

“A deep and profound sadness and the dark realities that have come forth?”

(A testimony)

  “I don’t read at this blog site which has done so much good for so many including myself that I don’t think we could exaggerate how much good it has done for many more people than we know. 

But the very day this tragedy involving Gene E was posted here a friend in G burg who I happened to call told me about it.

 I knew Gene and his wife for years at CLC and they took us through premarital counseling. 

Later I drove to Richmond for three visits as Gene wanted me to come to Richmond and I was drawn to the prospect primarily because of our close friendship with Bob and Marsha D. 

As much as I wanted to be with Bob and get away from CLC leadership, I sensed something was phony and I felt a strong check from the Spirit in going there. 

Upon first hearing this news it barely phased me in light of everything else that has been exposed. 

But pondering it further has truly saddened me.

I have no self righteous indignation whatsoever but a deep and profound sadness and the dark realities that have come forth since 2011 have become more than I can wrap my mind around and honestly I don’t even want to try to put into words my analysis or processing of how such things have happened. 

Truly my mind is tired of it all and my heart is simply utterly saddened. 

This is Jimmy Swaggsrt type reality. 

I thought I had heard the worst discovering the kind of counsel given by “godly” Christian lawyers to pastors who then followed that counsel – could it get any worse? 

Apparently. 

And I am wondering how much has been covered up that has not been brought to the light. 

Probably much more than has been revealed.

What deeply grieves me is how many have simply concluded Jesus is not real and have turned away from seeing Him as the only hope for human existence and why – because of their experience of church life which is supposed to be the pillar and foundation of the truth concerning God, His Son, and the precious Holy Spirit. 

I want to believe there are real pastors somewhere in this world of America but I wonder if men like Paul are shaped in environments in which the church is persecuted – I just don’t know anymore.

I mentioned to my friend here last night, 

“Do you realize that without the internet we would know none of this?” 

Sure, we have all sinned in grievous ways but to not bring it to the light on your own is serious but to cover it up even after it is known makes me wonder if love for God or fear of God is even on the radar screen of the collective conscience of this “work of God” anymore. 

The God of the Bible whom they so eloquently spoke to us about does not seem to be their reason for existence or One to whom they will give an account. 

I still hear CJ’s hollow promise ringing in my ears after his appeals to give more money to SGM :”We will never do anything to embarrass you…” 

That is not even our concern anymore. 

The heart wrenching concern is a great disillusionment and even apostasy that their unrepentant blatant sin against God and His people has come to pass is something they feel absolutely no fear about in relation to God nor any shame whatsoever for it appears that money and love of reputation has demon possessed their souls and darkened their hearts and minds so they now worship created things rather than the Creator and seem to be sinking down into the depravity described in Romans chapter one. 

It seems God has turned them over to do dispicable things and not to stop one another from doing so. 

Why is confession so hard? 

I have heard enough of this nightmare and I will ask my friends not to fill me in anymore on the horror of it all.

I am feeling that a great judgment is coming on America and as described in Hebrews it seems everywhere it is beginning with the household of God. 

I have just an inkling of how Jeremiah must have felt and why he had to write the book of Lamentations. 

Though I am personally happy, I cannot help but feel saddened by all of this. 

How empty and lonely and devoid of the Spirit must Gene’s heart have been to take refuge in soliciting prostitutes! 

I feel sad for him and his entire family and Kingsway church which has certainly not been led by the King’s Way of sacrificial love for His people. -Paul Kellen 
http://www.sgmsurvivors.com/2015/08/12/kingsway-pastor-convicted-of-solicitation-of-prostitution/comment-page-2/#comment-88742

—

Daisy wrote:

A YRR guy replied to me that by posting that news story, I was making YRR / Calvinism look bad. The guy was all concerned for the reputation of Calvinism, not that some guy was perving on kids!

I hope you can see how utter devotion or unquestioning loyalty and acceptance to a particular preacher, church, or system of theology (or aversion to such being criticized) can blind you to a bigger picture or injustices in the world (which is pretty scary, I think).

Ask any survivor of Cambodia’s Killing Fields how much “Purity of Perfect Ideology” can justify.

Lydia wrote:

@ Gram3:
I think one of the big reasons for the focus on YRR is not only the proliferation of scandals, control freak pastors and the bizarre use of the word”Gospel” but the fact they were early adopters of social media to build what became a huge brand in social media, too, not just some large churches or family of churches.
This changed everything. With the same medium used to build the brand, people are using to respond to abuses. This will always make some people uncomfortable who will then want to use certain censoring tactics.

I agree with all of this until the last sentence. A request for fairness in reporting is far different from censoring, especially since I have commended on many occasions the work done here. I have no problem with challenge over legitimate issues but the original post was, IMO, an illegitimate linking of an individual’s sin with an entire movement.

js wrote:

I totally agree that YRR topics deserve to be discussed. My point is that they should not be discussed as the sole focus of a blog whose tagline is “Dissecting Christian Trends.” In other words, the focus has been trending toward near exclusive coverage of the YRR and this can lead to unfair associations like in the original post

In case you haven’t noticed The Young, Restless & Reformed (YRR) movement is covered with more frequency because of how big, sweeping, destructive, and authoritarian the movement has been.

I know pastors and elders in churches around the world who are alarmed at what has happened to the American church. (Those pastors and elders in other countries have been serving for 40+ years.) They have noted that American Christianity now has more in common with radical Islam than we the freedom we are to have in Christ. That is spot on!

A man who posted at the Spiritual Sounding Board has come up with a new term for the YRR/NeoCal and their ilk’s War on Women: “Shehad” (She for the pronoun). It sounds like Jihad. So true!

Older Christians say it didn’t used to be this way.

js wrote:

Gene is not a victim, he is a sinner who made sinful choices which led to his demise. Just like dozens of other pastors every year from all kinds of denominations and all kinds of theological systems.

You have fakers in there.

Mark Driscoll was selling and marketing himself as being a YRR guy. Now that his Mars Hill church fell apart, it looks like he’s trying to re-brand himself as being some kind of Charismatic friendly guy.

Some people, like him, are (or were) attracted to YRR to make more money or to lord authority over others. I guess because YRR has been so trendy the last ten years and some of its underlying theology is appealing to abusers and control freaks.

The Charismatic stuff, though, is appealing to greedy con artists who want to bilk money off people more so than control them.

Tell folks about that pressed down and running over stuff, if they give you five dollars, God will return it to you as five thousand.

js wrote:

I have no problem with challenge over legitimate issues but the original post was, IMO, an illegitimate linking of an individual’s sin with an entire movement.

The entire Young, Restless & Reformed/NeoCal movement is OFF the rails and should be rebuked and chastened for what they are doing. Destructive. Authoritarian. Zero to do with the freedom we are to have in Christ.

rbrook wrote:

Matthew mentioned a recording of the family meeting. I doubt they will make that public at this point. Some have said Gene spoke at that meeting and gave his account and what actually happened and why he maintains he is innocent.
Unless someone from inside posts or hears that recording everything above is just conjecture, but it is hard to imagine a scenario where any of it makes sense.

Well there was enough evidence to get him CONVICTED. I wonder if the police had a sting operation and if the whole thing was taped; it frequently is taped. I’d be interested in the evidence being released.

Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

Ask any survivor of Cambodia’s Killing Fields how much “Purity of Perfect Ideology” can justify.

Reading the account of JD Hall praying an “imprecatory prayer” for the destruction of the Supreme Court building was very disturbing. I couldn’t help but think of Jesus’ words to James and John when they wanted “to command fire to come down from heaven and consume” a Samaritan village when they refused them: “You do not know what manner of spirit you are of. For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.”

I can’t identify with what some Christians are promoting. I just can’t. We’d be naive and arrogant to think what happened in Cambodia couldn’t happen here.

js wrote:

an illegitimate linking of an individual’s sin with an entire movement.

That is a point which needs to be argued. Was this incident unrelated to the culture of double standards for the shepherds? We may never know. But I do not honestly believe that if a pewpeon at a SG church did what Emerson did that Matthew would have characterized it the same way. That is a point which I think you miss. They have set up a corrupt system that is nothing like what Jesus has called his church to be. Instead of higher standards for the shepherds, they have no standards. I will say that at least in this instance there was a resignation. Given Emerson’s apparently deep involvement in the SGM system, I think it is legitimate to call attention to this when pretty much what they encourage is paying attention to the Leaders.

js wrote:

I have challenged Challies over his handling of SGM.

And what was his response, if any, to your challenge?

I don’t follow your analogy to TWW blogroll. I was pointing out that the people you defend curate comments to shape the narrative or propagate bias, and that is what you are complaining about. I see a disconnect there. That has nothing to do with the blogroll at TWW and their alleged practices.

BeenThereDoneThat wrote:

Reading the account of JD Hall praying an “imprecatory prayer” for the destruction of the Supreme Court building was very disturbing.

He probably learned that from his hero, Doug Wilson. The Federal Visionists are big fans of imprecatory prayers. I’m not saying Hall is FV, but he is probably attracted to Wilson because he is a pugilistic Female Subordinationist Calvinist. And that is all that matters to Hall.

js wrote:

I have no problem with challenge over legitimate issues but the original post was, IMO, an illegitimate linking of an individual’s sin with an entire movement.

Maybe the movement which has a shepherding cult focus to it needs to quit giving us so much to be concerned about? From Driscoll, to Mahaney to Chandler TVC and the experiences of people who have been in these YRR churches. There is a much larger theme going on that one individuals sin. That theme is how such things are handled with different rules for the leaders whether it is hiring a prostitute or protecting child molesters/pedophiles.

Lydia wrote:

Maybe the movement which has a shepherding cult focus to it needs to quit giving us so much to be concerned about?

I believe this is exactly why the problem at Kingsway is another example of the systemic poison in SGM’s DNA. Shepherding. As long as these churches continue to operate under this model, there will continue to be problems.

When most people think of Shepherding they think of the Fort Lauderdale Five of Christian Growth Ministries. I think Cindy Kunsman gives a better overall view of the movement:

http://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2013/02/revisiting-shepherdings-history-and.html

” Henke’s model describes this through the distinctive of Suppressing Criticism and of Image Consciousness. Eventually, this became the perfect storm that leadership could use to abuse their own liberties for their own advantage, because their judgment (and their “needs”) were seen as God’s divine will, the Sacred Science. And these factors also set up the system that would necessitate a new form of church discipline, the Dispensing of Existence.”

“CGM disbanded after people in nearly every shepherding group began to experience serious problems because of spiritual abuse. Christians were emerging from these churches and parachurch groups with symptoms identical to people who were exiting any other non-Christian cult like a Moonies or Hare Krishnas.”

__

“Budda Bing, Budda Boom?

hmmm…

js,

hey,

There are those here who ‘could’ eat you for lunch.

huh?

I’m just gonna sit here and eat my popcorn and watch what happens…

🙂

‘Bless your heart!’

*

(addendum)
GeneE  received his words from among the thorns of SGM’s 501(c)3 abusive, authoritarian religious system, although the word of God was available to him and the abundance of promises sealed in Jesus’ blood therein, yet the care of this fallacious manufactured 501(c)3 religious system, and the deceitfulness of greed, choke the word of God, and his life and his pulpit became unfruitful. 

Then da ‘storm’ came…

WHOSH!

Big Budda Boom!

(sadface)

Sopy

—

Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist wrote:

Lapse in judgment? LAPSE IN JUDGMENT? A lapse in judgment is when I forget to raise the seat before I pee. This is a lapse in character, not judgment.

No…a lack of character…those that stay there….a lapse in judgement.

Mark wrote:

Well the charge was solicitation of pr*stitution, not solicitation of a pr*stitute. I’m no defender of Emerson, but it is possible that the complainant, if a male, could have been an undercover cop acting as the p*mp, not a h**ker, and the arrest could have been made pretty early in the transaction sequence. So don’t jump to conclusions on what the offender’s preferences are/were.

The website of Debra D. Corcoran, Emerson’s defense attorney, states that it is not uncommon for law enforcement to use undercover officers to pose as prostitutes in order to catch potential solicitors, or “johns.” She doesn’t mention about an undercover cop acting as a p*mp, but of course that is always a possibility, too.

http://www.richmonddefensefirm.com/Criminal-Defense/Sex-Crimes/Prostitution.aspx

Truth wrote:

@ Joe2:
If she couldn’t get him off the hook, then the case against him must have been air tight.

And I wonder if Gene Emerson’s soliciting prostitution was also videotaped and recorded since police do that in most of these sting operations. I would be interested to know what the government’s evidence was against him.

Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist wrote:

Lapse in judgment? LAPSE IN JUDGMENT? A lapse in judgment is when I forget to raise the seat before I pee. This is a lapse in character, not judgment.

LOL!

Velour wrote:

js wrote:

One example I have seen where a disqualifying sin seemed to be handled in an excellent way was the case of RW Glenn at Redeemer Bible Church, a reformed church in Minnesota. The church seemed to handle all above board, communicated to the congregation and removed Glenn from ministry and their church’s website. Interestingly, TWW covered Glenn, but only his fall and his associations with YRR.

In case you haven’t noticed, The Wartburg Watch writes and posts a story every couple of days. They do a lot of research as well. They handle a huge volume of posters.

If you have additional information, links, etc. about a story for follow-up why haven’t you kicked it into gear and emailed it to them? Why do you just sit back and whine, complain, and nit-pick. More importantly, as Gram3 and others have stated, why haven’t you started your own blog to address these issues that you are so concerned about?

Also, why haven’t you posted on a story the follow-up information that you are concerned that gets covered by The Wartburg Watch. Other people do that and Dee and Deb follow-up. Why haven’t you?

^^Wait a second…. What happened there?

It looks hilarious, actually.

I see that some of the discussion is centering around why they ran this story when this type of thing happens all the time and it is never mentioned.
What makes this story significant is two things.
First is the fact that this particular pastor was, at one time, a regional bigwig in the SGM organization. There are many posts on here and elsewhere highlighting the way this organization has abused its power over the years.
Secondly, there has been a pattern over the years of abuse from this particular pastor and the way this entire affair has been handled reflects the twisted system that undergirds everything this particular church does.
If you were to apply a franchise model to SGM, KingsWay would be a company owned store. There is a connect the dots thing here…the point is that the problems are systemic and the ills of a pastor of a dinky church in Virginia harken to greater problems in the entire organization in this case.

In case people don’t read Survivors here is another case where Gene Emerson showed “bad judgment.” I am posting a comment someone else posted there below:

In response to Out There’s question about Gene’s “other sin”.Here is a summary of the situation I am sure there is more to the story, but I found this in SGM Survivor’s archives from August 2010……………………

About ten years ago, KingsWay’s leadership was considering a church plant to Roanoke. Through seeming confirmations from lots of sources, it became clear to everyone involved that SW, one of the KingsWay pastors, seemed to be the man called to lead this church plant. While SW had a heart for that church (as they say), he himself did not feel a calling to be its pastor. However, because of the “distrust your heart” culture that is fundamental to KingsWay (and all of SGM, although they didn’t say that), he believed for quite a while that he was mistaken about his own feelings, and that he really was called but struggled with unbelief. The other pastors first suggested to him that he was dealing with unbelief on a pastors retreat. To make a long story short SW went to Roanoke without having peace about it in his heart, because everyone around him including his fellow pastors were convinced that he was called to go. Not too long afterwards, however, it became clear to him that he simply could not continue pastoring that church. The aggressive deep-digging in his own heart for a sin that wasn’t there took a very damaging toll on him, and he still didn’t feel like he should be there at all, so he stepped down from the leadership in Roanoke and returned to Richmond with his family. Before they resumed attending KingsWay, however, Gene called a “family meeting” to give the congregation the Official Story on what had happened. He said that SW had been removed from leadership in Roanoke because of major unresolved and unrepentant pride, selfishness and unbelief. Additionally, he had been defrocked as a KingsWay pastor over these same “unrepentant sins”. The congregation was largely turned against SW in a very damaging way. Furthermore, the true story of what had happened was kept a secret. Nobody knew SW’s side of the story except for himself, his wife, some (but not all) of his children, Gene, and one friend that SW had told against Gene’s wishes. Not even the rest of the KingsWay pastors knew SW’s side of the story.

For nine years, SW and his family were treated very poorly by many of the members of KingsWay, due to what Gene had said about him at that family meeting. SW described the treatment he, his wife and daughter received from KW members as “cruelty.” SW and the one friend he’d taken into confidence repeatedly requested truth, openness and a fair hearing from Gene, but Gene did not do anything or seek out SW in any way. He did continue to forbid SW from telling anyone what had happened.

At the meeting at KingsWay the other night, Gene acknowledged that all of the above had taken place and confessed his own sin in the matter. He said that in the past year he’d become reconciled with SW and realized the levels to which he’d hurt SW and his family, and been wrong about God’s call on his life. There was no mention of how the reconciliation had taken place or why this meeting was being called.

Gene and the other pastors were conspicuously silent about what had happened to end this nine-year gag order on SW.

Steve240 wrote:

the leaders of SGM Chesapeake were threatening to church discipline a woman in their church who was being abused by her husband. Fortunately 3 couples came to this woman’s defense. I belive her situation on this blog was called “Esther’s Story.”

Gene Emerson use I believe “enemy of the church” to describe these 3 couples etc.

This is one of the many times when two or more threads on TWW converge. The ones about Karen Hinkley and The Village sound a lot like this situation. The SGM/9Marks/Acts29 shepherding cult beliefs are ingrained in way too many churches today. Why people are so blind to this I do not know and cannot understand. And I guess this also brings in the long thread on Female Subordinationism, too, since the voice of women is totally discounted. More than half the church is silenced; it is no wonder things are off the rails.

Truth wrote:

Gram3 wrote:

it is no wonder things are off the rails.

Rails? There are rails?

ROFL.

@ Max:

“Both pulpit and pew can be found playing with the things of the world throughout the week.”
++++++++++++++++++++

i’m curious what the things are.

I think you have the best of intentions. I feel that how your comment is worded in a propaganda-type way (power Christian words that immediately invoke concern, fear, judgement, that would rally people against someone(s) or something without really giving them the opportunity to understand the situation)

i think it would be best for your audience (& for the sake of those whom you are speaking about) if you spoke plainly, and not resort to these words which stir people up without elucidating much of anything.

elastigirl wrote:

@ Max:

“Both pulpit and pew can be found playing with the things of the world throughout the week.”
++++++++++++++++++++

i’m curious what the things are.

I think you have the best of intentions. I feel that how your comment is worded in a propaganda-type way (power Christian words that immediately invoke concern, fear, judgement, that would rally people against someone(s) or something without really giving them the opportunity to understand the situation)

i think it would be best for your audience (& for the sake of those whom you are speaking about) if you spoke plainly, and not resort to these words which stir people up without elucidating much of anything.

Hmmmm…I didn’t see that in Max’s post to Dr. F. Max was referring to Scripture verses – the “things of this world” that unbelievers partake in and are focused on that Christians are not to be focused on. He was referring to the hypocrisy in the church, in lives’ of the church’s leaders, and in the lives of people who profess Christ on Sundays but are focused on worldly things the other six days of the week.

elastigirl wrote:

@ Velour:
I hope I didn’t misunderstand. i’m wondering if the ‘things of this world’ fall in the category of ‘inappropriate’. I can think of many things which would be inappropriate to one Christian, and yet be a non-issue to another Christian who perhaps lives in a very different locale.

elastigirl wrote:

@ Velour:
I hope I didn’t misunderstand. i’m wondering if the ‘things of this world’ fall in the category of ‘inappropriate’. I can think of many things which would be inappropriate to one Christian, and yet be a non-issue to another Christian who perhaps lives in a very different locale.

Hi elastigirl. Sorry about the religious speak. Yes, I was referring to inappropriate sinful things that attempt to draw believers from their Christian walk … to be in the world, but not of it as it says in Scripture.

The “things of the world” which draw us into sin are categorized in 1 John 2:16: “For everything in the world–the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life–comes not from the Father but from the world.”

Galatians 5 contrasts the “acts of the flesh” with “the fruit of the Spirit.” In that passage, we are called not to use our freedom in Christ to indulge the flesh. This is a lifelong pursuit of holiness and Christlikeness as the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin, prompts us to repent, pick us up and helps move us forward in that pursuit.

Sin has no geographic boundaries. Sin is always an issue to God. Repentance restores our relationship with Him, bringing peace and joy and a new energy to our walk with the Lord.

Any sin, even the smallest sin separates the offender from God forever. All have sinned and all need Jesus Christ as their Savior. Everyone needs the full measure of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross for the atonement of their sin alone. Remember that there but for the grace of God go any of us. Any sin one man is capable of all are capable of except by God’s grace. All men flee from God, all men deserve the full wrath of God. If you are saved by Christ, remember that it is completely by grace and not from your own accord. Please be slow to condemn others who slip into sin, as we all do, even everyday…so that you may avoid temptation yourselves by God’s saving grace alone.

What is apparent to me is the sense of entitlement that these people have.I will give you one incident _we were invited to a birthday party that was thrown together at the last minute for sgm “friends” who have moved out of the area to another sgm church. Have not seen these people in 15 years but know they visit other people in the area.(could if be because we left sgm years ago l.o.l)We did see their daughter once when she crashed our daughters wedding in the last year(thank God someone could not come at the last minute and their was food)We did not get the original invite until one day before and did not see it on our Facebook till the day after when I found a note at my door saying they missed us and they we just dropping by to visit old friends while they were in.we sent a message back saying we were uncomfortable with drop ins as we were practicing intentality in our relationship. They messaged back that they were just trying to connect since our daughter re_ connected.First of all their was no mention of lets get together in the future.And most important they wanted what they wanted which was immediate satisfaction without putting time of effort into a relationship.also our daughters did not re_connect, she barged in came and got what she wanted(free entertainment) and my daughter has not see her since.The reality of the whole thing is the husband needed quest to fill out the party and because we have become wealthy in the last 15 years a nice birthday gift.( as evidenced by the nice wedding as gave our daughter)I have ran into these sgm “friends alot ” in the last year and they always are prying into my life(I walk with a pronounced limp now)almost to the point of me telling them off.They all want what they want,and when the want it.Whether it is info ,gifts or in this case a quikie that destroys the fabric of society and Christianity.

Hi Ladies, welcome to my comment that I’ve typed from home, at my desk, surrounded by the smiling faces of all my children and grandchildren, who remind me daily of my success in following God’s plan by staying true to His Divine Order. My home is my sphere of influence, and provides me with the material I’ve tried to use to create a career for myself outside the home, which has fallen kind of flat lately to be honest.

Anyway, thank you for reading this comment and remember, I don’t do anything for free, so after reading this please shop my page on Amazon and order one of my books. Then go to my blog and purchase some reclaimed wood with nifty quotes painted on, and I’ll send you a calendar if I feel like it, k?

OK, now that you’ve agreed to send me money, let me say this:

I have known Gene & Liz Emerson for decades, and let me tell you – I’m not surprised this has happened. Last time I saw them together, I couldn’t help but notice Liz had let herself go and appeared as though she’d aged. In fact, she didn’t have anything on that communicated “Open For Biz”, so it doesn’t surprise Gene went looking for someone who was.

To quote my dear friend Owen Strachan, “To be a woman is to support, to nurture, and to strengthen men in order that they would flourish and fulfill their God-given role as leaders.” Naturally, there was something Liz was doing wrong. Adam would never have eaten the fruit, ladies, if his wife Eve hadn’t offered it to him. If Liz had been keeping her flowers fresh and her hedges trimmed, I’m sure Gene would never have taken a walk on the wild side.

Ever since I was forced to leave the helm of the SGM Concordia Mothership, it’s no wonder the men are losing it without my books (let’s not forget BOOKS), seminars, workshops, conferences, and of course my perfect personification of the complementarian lifestyle that I depict on my blog (along with my daughters but who cares about them) to guide their wives. I just know if they purchased one of my maps (hint: Book), they’d make it to safe harbor just like the Iraq and the South Africa did, such as.

But don’t let this happen to you, ladies! Go buy one of my gospel-centered, gospel-driven, gospel-licious books that teaches you the one-and-only path for your life, and will ensure your man ends up on top and on top of you only!

@ Daniel Morrill:
If I am on a jury, should I be slow to condemn a murderer because I know that, except for the grace of God, I could be a murderer? You see, what you say is true theologically, but we do not live in an abstract theological world. Your words are pious, but could be used to perpetrate or perpetuate great evil. Please think through what you are saying.

@ Gram3:
That kind of thinking is why my former cult can justify monitoring every member’s internet usage via Covenant Eyes, and passcode protecting adult member’s iPhones so that the browsers are unavailable. Because everyone is capable of viewing inappropriate content online.

For a church that worships by speaking in tongues and running the aisles we certainly didn’t have enough of the Spirit to keep ourselves in check, did we?

Daniel Morrill wrote:

Any sin one man is capable of all are capable of except by God’s grace.

God gives people free will. They can choose to refrain from sin. The Bible mentions that people have self-control. You don’t have to give in to sin.
I don’t necessarily see where God’s grace comes in to that.

Shouldn’t people take more personal responsibility for their shortcomings?

Isn’t it kind of dangerous to suggest that people are helpless, and it’s inevitable they are going to fall into any and all kinds of sin, even adultery?

@ Mary k

Mary, this reminds me of the seeker mega crowd. The goal was to have as many high end showers and excuses to get presents as possible. Engaged couples of members might have up to 10 showers before a wedding with folks they barely know from church invited and expected to bring presents from the registry of high end stores. It was a racket. The weddings often cost as much as a down payment on a nice house or a new car. Being seen at the parties and wedding of the circles was the fashion.

@ Lydia:
It’s the logical outgrowth of that kind of thinking. Why flagellate yourself over a little white lie when you can sin *really big,* and your sin is no worse than any one else’s.

Daniel Morrill wrote:

Any sin, even the smallest sin separates the offender from God forever. All have sinned and all need Jesus Christ as their Savior. Everyone needs the full measure of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross for the atonement of their sin alone. Remember that there but for the grace of God go any of us. Any sin one man is capable of all are capable of except by God’s grace. All men flee from God, all men deserve the full wrath of God. If you are saved by Christ, remember that it is completely by grace and not from your own accord. Please be slow to condemn others who slip into sin, as we all do, even everyday…so that you may avoid temptation yourselves by God’s saving grace alone.

We are talking about a church leader who is *held* to a higher standard according to the Bible. We are talking about church leaders who didn’t tell church members the absolute candid truth about this leader’s sin, that is disqualifies him from serving, and they used code language and lies. Let’s get real: They didn’t do what the Bible says to do! Confront a leader like that before all!

Carolyn Mahommy wrote:

Hi Ladies, welcome to my comment that I’ve typed from home, at my desk, surrounded by the smiling faces of all my children and grandchildren, who remind me daily of my success in following God’s plan by staying true to His Divine Order. My home is my sphere of influence, and provides me with the material I’ve tried to use to create a career for myself outside the home, which has fallen kind of flat lately to be honest.

Anyway, thank you for reading this comment and remember, I don’t do anything for free, so after reading this please shop my page on Amazon and order one of my books. Then go to my blog and purchase some reclaimed wood with nifty quotes painted on, and I’ll send you a calendar if I feel like it, k?

OK, now that you’ve agreed to send me money, let me say this:

I have known Gene & Liz Emerson for decades, and let me tell you – I’m not surprised this has happened. Last time I saw them together, I couldn’t help but notice Liz had let herself go and appeared as though she’d aged. In fact, she didn’t have anything on that communicated “Open For Biz”, so it doesn’t surprise Gene went looking for someone who was.

To quote my dear friend Owen Strachan, “To be a woman is to support, to nurture, and to strengthen men in order that they would flourish and fulfill their God-given role as leaders.” Naturally, there was something Liz was doing wrong. Adam would never have eaten the fruit, ladies, if his wife Eve hadn’t offered it to him. If Liz had been keeping her flowers fresh and her hedges trimmed, I’m sure Gene would never have taken a walk on the wild side.

Ever since I was forced to leave the helm of the SGM Concordia Mothership, it’s no wonder the men are losing it without my books (let’s not forget BOOKS), seminars, workshops, conferences, and of course my perfect personification of the complementarian lifestyle that I depict on my blog (along with my daughters but who cares about them) to guide their wives. I just know if they purchased one of my maps (hint: Book), they’d make it to safe harbor just like the Iraq and the South Africa did, such as.

But don’t let this happen to you, ladies! Go buy one of my gospel-centered, gospel-driven, gospel-licious books that teaches you the one-and-only path for your life, and will ensure your man ends up on top and on top of you only!

FakeCarolyn Dearest,

I would LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to buy some of your “Gospel-centered products”. Unfortunately, I am all tapped out. I am making a large horde of “Hotel California”/Gulag t-shirts, mugs, Gulag NeoCal chocolate handicuffs (you know the bitter and the sweet), chocolate stockades, and other NeoCal/Gulag trinkets to sell at the upcoming SBC *Church [Witch Trials/Toss Out The Constitution And The Holy Spirit And The Priesthood of All Believers] “Discipline” Conference.

I will be selling tacky knock-offs of The Various NeoCal “Popes”, you know bobbleheads, (Mark Dever, your Master CJ Mahaney, the NeoCal *Cardinals* such as Jonathan Leeman at 9Marx, Matt Chandler of The Village Church/Acts 29, narcissistic zero posters and bumper stickers, kindling to burn people at the stake (I will also have the pretzel version dipped in chocolate) and lots of other oppressive things that NeoCals will *eat up*!!

I am coming up with a new line of Shehad (that’s the pronoun “She” + “had”, sounds like Jihad) products for the NeoCal’s War on Women. I am thinking full black veils at this point since according to the NeoCals we don’t have freedom in Christ but NeoCal is really akin to radical Islam.

Could you send me some of your products to *test* out? You’ll get a tax write-off for your *love offering*.

Signed,

Velour, Internet Sister in Christ to “Satin” (sic), daughter of “Stan” (sic),
Product Development
Shehad

Daisy wrote:

js wrote:

I totally agree that YRR topics deserve to be discussed. My point is that they should not be discussed as the sole focus of a blog whose tagline is “Dissecting Christian Trends.”

It’s not your blog. If the blog owners want to only blog on the YRR trend, that’s their prerogative. But they do discuss other trends at times.

YRR is the BIGGEST train wreck going on. That’s why it’s getting so much coverage, and rightly so!

Eagle wrote:

Carolyn Baloney

I meant to say Carolyn Mahommy…darn autocorrect!

BeenThereDoneThat wrote:

@ Gram3:
That kind of thinking is why my former cult can justify monitoring every member’s internet usage via Covenant Eyes, and passcode protecting adult member’s iPhones so that the browsers are unavailable. Because everyone is capable of viewing inappropriate content online.

For a church that worships by speaking in tongues and running the aisles we certainly didn’t have enough of the Spirit to keep ourselves in check, did we?

Remember what Jerad Mellinger said at CFC in Pennsylvania? Pornography is healthier than blogs critical of SGM. LOL!!! Who says crap like that?

I posted a lengthy comment on sgmsurvivors.com, so I won’t repeat the whole thing here. But here’s a recap of my theory in a nutshell, emphasis on ‘theory’, as evidence may surface to the contrary:

It’s possible that nobody other than the defendant knew about the arrest/ conviction until late July or early August. Gene may have kept it to himself, thinking the big-guns defense attorney would produce an acquittal, and then he could minimize the whole situation and laugh it off as a silly mistake. Staff had no clue about the arrest/conviction until after the mission trip was over and the sabbatical was announced, to their embarrassment. (If this is the case, they should have said so.)

Clueless pastors and people were given an excuse for the conviction (some kind of mixed up appointment maybe, possibly whatever the attorney used in court) without an explanation of the weight of the evidence.

Possibly, the defendant is hoping to fight the legal system in some way to stave off the horrific embarrassment his family has suffered. Attorney may have advised church on the strange language in the announcement to point to church’s support if some kind of redress of the court goes forward.

The very earnest, young, Matthew tried to do the right thing by showing kindness to Gene rather than continue in the horrid way the church had treated other people in the past, but is being criticized for giving Gene a pass due to his position.

The church called the end of Gene’s employment a resignation, though surely they might have given him the opportunity to resign, again to save face, before terminating him themselves.

And where is SGM in all this? Far, far away, in their new Kentucky home, wishing to distance themselves from one of their most loyal company men; one who said, when asked point-blank, that Kingsway would “never leave SGM.”

The shoes keep dropping.

Ben–

Your account is more detailed than what I saw in the printed police report that was posted on Survivors. What did you see or read?

Ben wrote:

All of this was recorded on video tape including

I thought for him to have been convicted that he had to have been videotaped by police in the act of soliciting prostitution.

@ Truth:

Just noticed your comment at SGM Survivors about not trusting Matthew. Can you expand and illustrate? Why not trust Matthew? Company man? Has he been deceitful in the past? etc..

Ben wrote:

In those records you will find how Gene was caught surfing the website “backpage.com” which police actually use as bait for men who solicit prostitutes in Richmond, the ad that he responded to was for “escort service”, it said NOTHING WHATSOEVER about “massage services”. Backpage.com is used by scummy people that want sex on the side, it’s like a dirty craigslist. Isn’t it funny that a preacher would know about such a website, hmmmmmm. It makes you wonder how long he’s been using that website, don’t worry more on that later.
After reaching out to the undercover officer on backpage, he then shows up to the hotel, knocks on the door, walks in an immediately kicks off his shoes like a professional solicitor of hookers, asked her how much for oral sex…….and get this, he also asked her how much for ANAL sex. After she informed him of the price, he said “ok”, stripped off ALL OF HIS CLOTHES and began to grope the police officer. All of this was recorded on video tape including Gene’s…..hmmmm, fully ready to go “manhood”!!

You mean “Sean,” right? Because that was the fake name Emerson was using to organize his little illicit rendezvous.

“Sean” was probably another way he tried to conceal the matter. Too bad about that whole thing with the cops busting him and asking for his real name and ID.

Ben wrote:

After reaching out to the undercover officer on backpage, he then shows up to the hotel, knocks on the door, walks in an immediately kicks off his shoes

Ben — your post doesn’t say specifically that you have seen this video, so I’d like to ask, just to be sure — have you seen this video with your own eyes? Thanks. It should be shown to the congregation who sent him off on sabbatical and to the pastor who solicited extra funds for him. And I don’t mean that in a snarky way. They need to know the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I don’t know if Matthew reads here, but I hope some of you who know him well will tell him he’s got some ‘splainin’ to do immediately, to protect and start helping to heal the people whose blind support has now hurt them to the core.

Velour wrote:

he video is part of criminal evidence in the state’s case used to convict him. It doesn’t mean it’s readily available to the public.

Yes, but Ben points to the FOIA and a trip to the courthouse as a way to get information, though he doesn’t specify the video. I just want to be sure he has actually seen it, or a transcript of it.

The police report is not an actual transcript of the conversations, etc, but a re-telling of it. I don’t doubt it’s veracity, but it is not as detailed as a transcript of an audio or videotape would be. Since Ben described the video, but didn’t come out and say he actually saw it with his own eyes, I’d like to clarify if he saw it, or if he is re-telling what someone else saw and told him. Thank you.

As a member of KW, thank you. This is the most effective and poignant statement I’ve read (and I’ve been reading for hours). @ Todd Wilhelm:

Slim wrote:

As a member of KW, thank you. This is the most effective and poignant statement I’ve read (and I’ve been reading for hours). @ Todd Wilhelm:

I hope that members such as yourself call for leadership to tell the truth about what they knew and when. Also they shouldn’t be giving Gene the slack that they are doing.

If nothing else if members vote with their giving then that will be one thing that gets the attention of Kingsway Leadership.

My wife and I went to KingsWay a few years back and were hurt by the church just like a lot of you. Since then, we haven’t found a church home and my faith has been rocky and declining ever since. When my mom passed away a year ago, i felt alone and neglected. The Christians in my life were nowhere to be found. I was angry with God, still am, and even though people knew it, I was left on my own. I don’t feel many people reached out to my dad or my mom before she passed either. Just all around neglect and not just from KingsWay people. I can’t seem to find true Christians that live out what the bible says. After hearing about Gene I stumbled upon this website trying to find out more info. I must say I’m sick to read some of these comments. And not just about what has happened with Gene. It’s appalling to read the joy in their misery and hate towards SGM in some of these comments. Even though I’m no longer at KingsWay I’m still friends with some of Gene’s family. To read some of these hateful, hurtful comments just reiterates the reason my faith is waining. I don’t understand how people can leave a church or denomination claiming they aren’t Christian and then act unchristian while pointing out other people aren’t Christian. If this helps you cope, that’s fine, but do it privately, not for anyone to read. I understand wanting to get facts out, and I’m ok with that. I’m not arguing against that. People need to know the truth. But while trying to sort through what happened with Gene and figure out my thoughts and feelings on it, I find myself worse off having stumbled upon this site. Please be careful how you proceed with your objective.

Nickname wrote:

Velour wrote:

he video is part of criminal evidence in the state’s case used to convict him. It doesn’t mean it’s readily available to the public.

Yes, but Ben points to the FOIA and a trip to the courthouse as a way to get information, though he doesn’t specify the video. I just want to be sure he has actually seen it, or a transcript of it.

The police report is not an actual transcript of the conversations, etc, but a re-telling of it. I don’t doubt it’s veracity, but it is not as detailed as a transcript of an audio or videotape would be. Since Ben described the video, but didn’t come out and say he actually saw it with his own eyes, I’d like to clarify if he saw it, or if he is re-telling what someone else saw and told him. Thank you.

I work in law. The burden of proof had to be very high for the government (i.e. the state) to obtain a conviction.

@ Velour:
Obviously I shouldn’t have posted anything on this site, because people aren’t open to hearing it. I’m not friends with Gene, only a couple of his kids. And I feel for them, what they must be going through with this. How can I not interpret comments as hateful when you’re calling them thugs and wolves, and wanting to put their names on bowling pins? I’m not accepting of what gene has done. That’s part of why we left. I was there during the whole fiasco coming out about a pastor’s life being basically ruined because he wasn’t following Gods plan according to KingsWay.
I never said I was abused, but I definitely was hurt by their actions. I know there are other people hurt way worse than me. All I know is that I’m dying inside and need help. I’m almost in tears right now because of everything I’ve gone through, so you saying I’m doing ok is a crock. I hadn’t heard details of what happened with Gene. Only that there was “a lapse in judgment.” That didn’t make sense and I wanted to know more details. Coming upon this site has only made it worse. I didn’t say to keep this all private. For gods sake, let everyone know it. I want to know all the facts. But talking about starting a bowling team on Sunday’s with their names in the pins doesn’t help your argument. And be harsh with them, that’s fine. But what good does it do to gossip with others that feel the same way as you? Form your opinions of me, that’s fine. But all I know is that I’m struggling with my faith and not wanting to be a believer anymore and so far the only responses have been that my reply seems too pat and that I have a problem with Jesus.

Jason

First of all, you and your lovely wife and, is it two, children, really need to find a good church. There are so many around. Two that might be close to you are Cornerstone Assembly of God or Clover Hill Assembly of God. Or perhaps Southside Church of the Nazarene might be a good one. Put the KingsWay thing behind you and move forward. All you are going see here is that SGM has very deep flaws and has delivered a lot of hurt to a lot of people way before 2010. But in the big picture, SGM is really just a dot on the Christian map. Most Christians I have met have never heard of it. I would venture to say it will be gone in 25 to 50 years.

In the mean time here is a good sermon to look at: http://cloverhillag.org/project/guaranteed

I am a gay man, I have since left all the SGM churches. I was a member of a Virginia SGM church and went to Richmond with the church plant in 1989. Wow I was asked to leave the church or be disciplined for having gay thoughts and desires back in the day. I would have never got myself involved with any illegal activity. I do know right from wrong.

Jason S wrote:

I was speaking to the group as a whole, not just you velour.

V: You commented about my posts and were wrong. I’d appreciate it if you would own that.

I don’t post on these things and posted incorrectly to just you when some of my comments were toward dee and the rest of the group.

V: You ripped my posts completely out of context and you were focused on mine. You were very detailed about my supposed posts. I was defending good and godly Christians in the face of an abusive, authoritarian NeoCal Church that destroyed the lives and relationships of all dissenters. You then said that I was focused on your former church. I most certainly was not!

It’s absurd that you think I’m telling people not to speak.

V: Considering you criticized my posts, said that I was talking about your former church when I had been talking about my former authoritarian NeoCal church and the HORRIBLE excommunications/shunnings that I witnessed of good and godly long-time Christians who dissented, yes…it seems you were telling people like me not to speak. After all, you omitted everything I said about MY FORMER CHURCH.

I want the truth out.

V: Good.

Some the comments on here I found inappropriate and was just voicing my opinion to be careful because others may stumble upon here.

V: Perhaps since it is triggering for you to be here than it would be best for you not to be reading and posting here.

just my opinion so you have every right to disagree. Thought the group might like to know a struggling Christian was upset by comments on here.

V: I can respect your opinion. But if it’s triggering for you to be here, then don’t come here.

If you are crying, upset, depressed, etc…then please see a doctor. Get some other professional help. These bad church experiences can do a lot of damage to people and some times they need help.

Instead of offering support, I was perceived as attacking the group and everything I said was analyzed.

V: I think that it’s odd you didn’t empathize.

I truly hope everything wrong comes to light and those suffering on here can overcome what has happened.

V: Agreed.

For me, comments I’ve read and responses to me have only encouraged my current path away from Christians and God.

V: The walk we do with Jesus doesn’t happen in a building. Again, I have just the opposite response as you from comments. Those posters here who have been through authoritarian, un-Biblical churches, have studied the Bible, know that this stuff that is going on is un-Biblical have been very helpful to me. They actually have made me smile again. You are in a different place. That’s ok.

For someone who has identied himself with Christ for 20 some years now, it’s a lonely place to be.

V: I wish you well on your journey. Take care of yourself and your family. Do fun things. Exercise. Eat right. Sleep. Don’t feel that you have to do anything right now. Don’t feel that you have to look for a church right now. Take it easy.

There are many good books about spiritual abuse.

1. David Johnson and Jeff Van Vonderen
The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse

2. Healing Spiritual Abuse by Ken Blue

3. Dr. Ronald Enroth’s well-known books that he is now made available for free on in electronic form:

a) Churches That Abuse
http://www.ccel.us/churches.toc.html

b) Recovering from Churches That Abuse
http://www.ccel.us/churchesrec.toc.html

4. Twisted Scriptures by Mary Alice Chrnalager

5. Pastor Wade Burleson’s blog and articles (he is a conservative Baptist pastor who does the E-Church service here on Sundays at the Wartburg Watch, but he is a fair man)

http://www.wadeburleson.org/2012/01/our-problem-is-authoritarianism-and-not.html

Jason S wrote:

I was speaking to the group as a whole, not just you velour. I don’t post on these things and posted incorrectly to just you when some of my comments were toward dee and the rest of the group.

It’s absurd that you think I’m telling people not to speak. I want the truth out. Some the comments on here I found inappropriate and was just voicing my opinion to be careful because others may stumble upon here. just my opinion so you have every right to disagree. Thought the group might like to know a struggling Christian was upset by comments on here. Instead of offering support, I was perceived as attacking the group and everything I said was analyzed. I truly hope everything wrong comes to light and those suffering on here can overcome what has happened. For me, comments I’ve read and responses to me have only encouraged my current path away from Christians and God. For someone who has identied himself with Christ for 20 some years now, it’s a lonely place to be.

@ Jason S:
Jason — welcome. The first time I found the blogs (the old Refuge one first, then sgmsurvivors.com, then this one, I had some of the same feelings you shared. I was completely confused for a while and thought that people sure were bitter. Up to that point, I figured that everything that had been done to me at KW was an anomaly; that they didn’t really mean to treat people that way, and that I needed to keep quiet in order to protect the cause of Christ. But the more I read, the more I realized — “HEY. I’m not crazy. Worse things have happened to many of these people, and this wasn’t an anomaly.”

I was still completely constrained by the wrong definitions of gossip and slander used by SBM. And I was still cautious after being told by GE and company not to tell anyone how I had been treated. It was a shock to my system to read things that were being expressed honestly, without any of the buzz words and over-flowered language we’d been taught.

It was hard to read the stories and come to terms with all this — that I had been in a corrupt organization. and I didn’t want to admit it.

So, I hope that you will continue to pray, continue to read, continue to think — and realize that some of us have developed a bit of ‘gallows humor’ when it comes to SGM. Sometimes, you have to laugh, for if you don’t you’ll cry.

I also love Liz, the kids, their spouses, and dear, dear Doris. I hope she never finds out. At church this morning, far away in a distant state, I thought of you at KW, and prayed with silent tears for all of you who are still there and experiencing this first-hand.

Please, let us know how you are doing. You are loved by the One who loves perfectly. The rest of us don’t always love so well, but we are trying. We’re a bunch of walking wounded, part of the church — known as the army that shoots its own wounded. I think you’ve been shot. You are one of us in many ways — I feel fairly certain that nobody here wants to add to your pain, but righteous anger is often present. Some unrighteous anger at times, too, maybe — but this and the other blogs have been wonderful vehicles for healing for many of us. I don’t know how I could’ve healed to this point without them.

There may be posts that seem inappropriate to you — but don’t worry about grading the responses. Some people aren’t talented writers. It’s difficult to convey tone when reading this. But people are angry. Truly angry. One fine ex-KW person – a friend of the pastor for three decades — posted a clip of “If I had a Rocket Launcher” on his FB page to show his feelings about the hypocrisy revealed by this latest crime.

People’s responses will be all over the map. Please don’t take it personally. Hang onto your faith, and He’ll bring you through, but if you’re like most of us, it will take time and the washing with the water of the Word.

__

Everybody SGC nosedive,
Hold your breath, count to five,
Back-slap, booby-trap,
Cover it all up in bubble wrap?
Church shake, earthquake,
Find a way to make a break?
It’s going to blow, it’s going to break,
This is more than some can take?

hmmm…

—

  __

“Welcome to the valley of the shadow of death…thank God grace reigns here.” -Tullian Tchividjian; 21 Jun 2015

—

Hello Ladies,

I hope you’re all working hard to be in the favor of men through your diligent support of their headship and leadership, because the success of the Gospel™ rests squarely upon your shoulders.

I must confess that I didn’t foresee the eventual loss of my career, nor did I imagine the consequences of our running away from Gaithersburg. At the time I had a firm trust in our bank accounts, and in our lives as hot commodities. Naturally I expected that after we moved to the “City of Beautiful Churches” that I’d continue to travel, give speeches, and offer my books for sale at numerous conferences throughout the year like I had done before. Instead this place has become more like “The Fall City”.

You see, I had established a name for myself, something no other woman in SGM was allowed to do without my express approval. Although I experienced slight twinges of guilt from time to time when I realized I was instructing women to refrain from building an independent life like what I had done, I knew within myself that it just went with the territory of being an SGM Leader – we’re simply above the laws we tell others to keep.

Also, you won’t ever hear me admit to any of our deceptive practices because I know the ends justify the means. Our Gospel™, which is true, makes men #1 and women #2.

And, with this in mind, we’ve been expecting our son to marry a girl who wants nothing more than a life at home that revolves around her hub. Unfortunately, he’s shown troubling signs, such as a preference for independently-minded women, the type who wouldn’t allow us to define for her what she can and cannot do, and who wouldn’t be content spending the rest of her life at home. This, of course, has had me worried. It’s a departure from the Gospel™.

In fact, I am certain that this is why, on September 9th, he is going to be arraigned on charges here in Kentucky. I am absolutely positive this is due to his having been exposed to some worldly ideas that have infiltrated his mind. I just know if he’d been spending more time at home, where the atmosphere is kept purified and cleansed of the pernicious influences of feminism, this would never have happened. My husband is especially convinced there’s a woman to blame. What else could it be?

And if the Judge is a female, we’re all doomed:

http://kcoj.kycourts.net/CourtRecords/Search.aspx

Click on the “Search by Case” tab
County: OLDHAM
Case #: 15-T-03896

Actually appears to be Chad Mahaney who is CJ Mahanet jr. I didn’t know Chad was C.J. Jr.

http://kentucky.arrests.org/Arrests/Charles_Mahaney%20ii_23950295/?d=1

15-T-03896 COMMONWEALTH VS. MAHANEY, CHARLES J
(ARRAIGNMENT)
1 0000150 SPEEDING 15MPH OVER LIMIT 5BZ773401-1
2 0002070 REAR LICENSE NOT ILLUMINATED 5BZ773401-2
3 0021080 OP MV UNDER/INFLUENCE OF ALCOHOL/DRUGS, ETC. .08 1ST OFF 5BZ773412-1

@ Truth:
I appreciate your comments. People like velour and dee discourage me from wanting to keep seeking God. My comments meant to be helpful critiques were not received the way I intended. Apparently we’ve crossed paths before since you recognize my family. After KW we went to clover hill but timing was terrible. We had our first child and it was difficult to get involved. We eventually became discouraged there and stopped going. We then started attending commonwealth chapel but I was hurt by the pastor there. I’m tired of being hurt and don’t feel like investing time just to be hurt again.

Jason S wrote:

We’ve encountered too many hurtful evil Christians that I don’t care anymore and don’t have the desire to seek God. And that’s what scares me.

I understand that feeling. SGM is not part of my life since I knew about Mahaney way, way back, and knew to stay away from anything to do with anything to with Maranatha or the other shepherding-type groups that sprang up. But if someone didn’t know that history and had not been involved in trying to de-program young people who were sucked into shepherding, SGM might have seemed like a good place. Especially with the love-bombing. The thought-policing and subtle social cueing come gradually and insidiously, and you don’t even realize you have been enculturated in a shame culture. It is not easy to see your way out of it unless there is someone who can walk you through it.

The other thing is the grief you have recently experienced. And “recently” can last a long time and can compound other losses you have experienced. I hope you can find a supportive group of people who look like the real, authentic Jesus and not the fake Jesus that SGM used to manipulate you. Some people are encouraged by strong language against wickedness done in the name of Jesus, and some people are put off by it. I hope that you can see through the words which you find off-putting to the desire that many of us have to see the church renewed and cleansed of its worldliness in whatever form that worldliness takes.

Gene Emerson’s replacement minister (the hand-raised 30-year-old wunderkind) is now acknowledging that Mr. Emerson did indeed commit the crime he was convicted of.

http://www.kingsway.cc/an-update-on-genes-resignation

He still affords him FAR more grace and leniency that they give normal parishioners and FAR, FAR more than Emerson ever gave anyone.

And, of course, he assumes the wife will remain with her cheating husband. And that they are equipped to handle the requisite counseling.

Does anyone think they will finally get around to checking Emerson’s electronic footprint, calendar, bank account, use of church time and funds, etc.?

Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ–

On Sunday, a local pastor gave a wonderful sermon that was so timely in light of all of this KingsWay mess.

Watch it here. http://cloverhillag.org/project/be-free-2/

WRIC tv news ran a story about Emerson yesterday. Still not a peep out of SGM Corporate Headquarters.

http://wric.com/2015/08/25/midlothian-pastor-pleads-guilty-to-soliciting-a-prostitute/

Jason S wrote:

@ Velour:
I will not argue with you or debate you. You misunderstood my comments and I was not comparing my losses to anyone on here. I’m truly sorry for your losses, but we cannot have dialogue when I’m feeling attacked by you, and you by me.

@Jason,

You have a lot of work to do.

Best wishes.

Jason S wrote:

@ Velour:
As do you, hence the reason both of us are on sites like these.

I have done mine, Jason. You haven’t done yours – and it shows.

^
?

__

“WORLDWIND?”

You got the pig with the golden ring, we got the brass band,
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=szYGBnOf5Z0

hmmm…

Q. C.J. How long to the point of SGC no return?

__
Bonus: Kansas: “NO Return”
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iFWtsT5zRKo

—

judge not, lest you be judged by your own sins. the nails that pierced jesus were committed by mr. emerson. god loves adulterers and murderers. proof? king david.

mr. bj kingway wrote:

the nails that pierced jesus were committed by mr. emerson.

What in the heck does that even mean?

Wow. You guys have nothing better to do with your lives but look at the speck in someone else’s eye? Writing a hate blog about other people’s sins, makes you no better than the person you’re gossiping about

dee wrote:

Please read some books on human trafficking.

Kourtney,
Here is a blog article by a Christian blogger (who also happens to be a judge) named Tim Fall about human trafficking:
https://timfall.wordpress.com/2013/03/15/rape-drugs-roadside-stands-and-human-trafficking-there-are-no-innocent-bystanders-see-more-at-httpwww-jennyraearmstrong-com20120612rape-drugs-roadside-stands-and-human-trafficking/

Kourtney wrote:

Wow. You guys have nothing better to do with your lives but look at the speck in someone else’s eye? Writing a hate blog about other people’s sins, makes you no better than the person you’re gossiping about

There’s hypocritical judgement and then there’s this thing the Bible asks believers to do: discernment, per 1 Corinthians 5
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%205

Which concludes (and this is directed at a group of self professing Christians):

v 12. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.
——–
How are Christians supposed to exercise that passage if taking your comment to heart, that any and all judgement is always wrong, which is what you seem to be suggesting?