"Last month, Gene was found guilty in Chesterfield County Court of soliciting a prostitute. To this day, he continues to maintain that he is innocent of any illicit activity, though he has humbly acknowledged a significant lapse in judgement regarding his conduct throughout the situation."
KingsWay Community Church website
So much for doing things the 'King's Way', as KingsWay Community Church, located on Sovereign Grace Drive in Midlothian, Virginia appears to profess. Gene Emerson, the founding pastor of KingsWay (originally called Southside Church of Richmond), has suddenly stepped down due to what has been described as a 'lapse in judgment'. Here is how the news was shared on the church website (see screen shot below).
Below you will find two screen shots of the court document for Gene Emerson's case. As you can see, the charge was Solicitation of Prostitution, and the final disposition was Guilty. The offense date and the arrest date was May 29, 2015, with Emerson being arraigned on June 9, 2015. He was found guilty one month later and received a sixty days suspended sentence, along with a fine and court costs. There is some question as to whether the complaintant is male or female.
The KingsWay congregation appears to have been kept totally in the dark until the shocking announcement last Sunday. Just three days after Emerson was found guilty, Matthew Williams, a pastor at the church, explained to the congregation that Gene Emerson is
"very much in need of an extended sabbatical from the normal work of pastoral ministry."
In his July 12, 2015 sermon, The Discipline of Renewal link, Williams, explained that Gene Emerson has been serving as senior pastor there for almost 30 years without a time of respite. He further stated that the church is behind other denominations like the PCA, RCA and OPC in granting sabbaticals to its pastors.
Just after the 25:30 mark, Williams explained that 2010 had been a hard year for KingsWay, with half the congregation and several pastors leaving. During this explanation, Williams boldly proclaimed that one of the things he loves about the KingsWay congregation is that "We don't hide stuff." 🙁
He went on to tell them that five years ago Gene was under constant fire and felt like many years of his ministry had been invalidated. Matthew reassured those in attendance that this wasn't the case, at which point the congregation broke out in applause. At that point, Matthew had Gene stand up and turn around to witness the congregational affirmation.
Beginning at the 51 minute mark, Gene Emerson addressed those in attendance. At the 54 minute mark, he told them he recognizes his need for a sabbatical as an expression of his weakness in God that He has appointed so that his hope, his strength, and his life come only from Him and not from his own energies and gifting. Gene acknowledged that he was being phased out for the time being but affirmed that he wants to finish the race well and finish it with them. He concluded by quoting 1 Peter 5:10 and Psalm 23 and explained that this is what he needs. As communicated in Matthew's July 12th message, Gene Emerson's sabbatical was to last six months during which time Gene and his wife would rekindle their romance, their affection, their communication as they are restored together, as God restores their souls together (1 hour, 2 minute mark). Apparently, Gene and his wife spent two weeks in July on a missions trip to Bolivia.
On August 9th, Matthew Williams shared a message entitled The Goal of our Suffering with the KingsWay congregation. He said that weakness is what God uses to show His strength. He mentioned a members' meeting that occurred the evening prior (August 8th) in which this serious matter was discussed. Matthew, who is now thirty-one years old, then explained that he was just six years old when he and his family came to KingsWay twenty-six years ago. Finally, he stated that Emerson is not qualified to serve as pastor right now. To listen to this sermon, go here.
Matthew emphasized that when it comes to Gene Emerson, he will NOT:
– Avoid him
– Judge or shame him
This clearly shows the double standard that exists in churches affiliated with Sovereign Grace Ministries. How many horror stories have we heard where SGMers have been both shamed and shunned?
In last Sunday's message, Matthew went on to emphasize the following statement that was also published on the church website:
In his Sunday message Matthew emphasized the statement above about many of them doing far worse than Gene Emerson. To what is he referring – the child sex allegations? What does he mean by the statement "Many of us have done far worse"?
He then asked the KingsWay members to give the new leadership a chance to prove themselves, despite his erroneous statement on July 12 – "We don't hide stuff." Keep in mind that Matthew, who earned a college degree and attended SGM's Pastors' College, is currently pursuing his M.Div. degree from Southern Baptist Theological Seminary through their distance education program. (link)
Now for those of you who may believe prostitution between two consenting adults is a victimless crime, think again. A New York Times article The Myth of the Victimless Crime ends by making this crucial point:
Whether the woman is in a hotel room or on a side street in someone’s car, whether she’s trafficked from New York to Washington or from Mexico to Florida or from the city to the suburbs, the experience of being prostituted causes her immense psychological and physical harm. And it all starts with the buyer.
Tragically, so many caught up in prostitution are victims themselves. We must not forget this! As with the illegal drug trade, demand drives supply. 'Lapse in judgment' or not, Gene Emerson's actions served to perpetuate prostitution.
And let's not forget the loved ones who are feeling terribly betrayed, as well as friends and extended family. No, prostitution between two consenting adults is not a victimless crime.
KingsWay Community Church has a strong presence in the Neo-Cal corner of Christendom. As you probably guessed, KingsWay is a 9Marks affiliated church (see screen shot below).
There appears to be a glitch in the 9Marks church search because when we attempted to find 'KingsWay Community Church" on the 9Marks website, nothing came up. However, when we did a church search of 9Marks congregations in the Richmond, Virginia area, the above information showed up in the list.
And then there's The Gospel Coalition… Perhaps you're wondering whether KingsWay is a member church of TGC, as we were.
YES IT IS, and Gene Emerson is still listed as pastor (at the time of this posting). Since The Gospel Coaltion has recently put into place a system for monitoring churches that may not be in full compliance, we believe the powers that be in TGC should be alerted that things are not being done the 'King's Way' at KingsWay from the behavior of the long-time pastor who had no choice but to step down to the interim pastor who we believe misled the congregation by assuring them that… "We don't hide stuff."
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First?
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Sounds like if the courts/police were not involved, they would have gone by the Dino Rizzo playbook and had him just take a sabbatical, but not admit the whole truth.
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Is it just me or did the KinfsWay Pastor outright lie about why the sabbatical was being taken?
Why do pastors need six month sabbaticals anyway? I know many people who work extremely long hours. They get 3-4 weeks vacation per year. They never get a six month sabbatical.
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” At the 54 minute mark, he told them he recognizes his need for a sabbatical as an expression of his weakness in God that He has appointed so that his hope, his strength, and his life come only from Him and not from his own energies and gifting. ”
What in the world does that gobbledygook even mean? Is it even a valid sentence in the English language? I have tried, but I can not parse this ‘sentence’ and get any meaning out of it, other than this guy is a blithering moron (that’s a Gospel insult, BTW).
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Bridget wrote:
I took lessons from Nick and made up my own word. Hehehe!
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I think it is safe to say that Emerson’s wife and children, if any, are victims of prostitution. The double standards are indeed glaring. I guess it’s only a problem if you are married to the person who sinned like Karen Hinckley.
Do these guys have any idea what it sounds like to the average working person when they say they need a sabbatical? Keven DeYoung has been taking a summer break and he only has four weeks left. Left! How many pewpeons get to work fewer than 5 days per week and get a sabbatical/study break in addition to their vacation and paid trips? On another thread, we talked about men leaving the church. Gramp3 says this one example of the reason. Men who live in the real world have nothing in common with these over-privileged and entitled men who think they are working so very hard.
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@ Bridget:
You beat me to it. They are privileged whiners. There are many pastors who work very hard, I’m sure. But so do most of the pewpeons who do not get paid leave.
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@ roebuck:
It's called SGMese and is probably taught in their Pastors College. These guys have a speaking/writing style all their own. I think it puts their followers in a trance.
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@ Gram3:
To clarify, it was Karen Hinckley who got disciplined when it was her husband who sinned. I worded that carelessly. And RevKev’s name is spelled Kevin.
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@ Gram3:
As of July 12th, Emerson was going to get his full salary plus the suggestion was made that congregants might consider giving money directly to the Emersons to help pay for travel while they were on sabbatical. Not sure where any of this stands now.
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roebuck wrote:
In a word it means: LYING.
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The evangelicals and Catholics and other denominations have placed their ministers on a pedestal to the point these guys ( and sometimes ladies) think they can do no wrong.
I do not trust most paid ( and many unpaid) ministers any farther than I can throw a KCS freight trains that run by my house.
Is it just me, but the favorite sermon of these guys is TITHE!
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@ Deb:
What illicit substances are these guys consuming? What kind of a “pastor” would take money from his flock to pay for a trip so that he can try to repair the damage he has done to his marriage by his own choices and actions?
SGM obviously has not learned what the church is about. If this is not the action of a hireling, I do not know what is.
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Deb wrote:
“Travel” = legal fund, I bet
“Sabbatical”=jail, I bet
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Deb wrote:
It nearly put me in a trance as I tried to make sense of it!
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N NECOLETTOS is Nathan Necolettos, a 37 year old police officer with Chesterfield County. It is unclear whether he was the undercover “prostitute” or merely the arresting officer.
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@ Deb:
They speak a dialect of it at SBTS, unfortunately.
Gramp3 says if he had done this, he would be transitioning to a place of rest for a long season of refreshment, only it wouldn’t be a sabbatical.
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Velour wrote:
Yes. Just say Christian-y religous-y words and hope to weasel out of whatever fix you’ve gotten yourself in. Why oh why do these people have any credibility at all?
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Gram3 wrote:
That was beautiful 😉 Best regards to Gramp3!
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roebuck wrote:
roebuck wrote:
With much of the world, including unbelievers, they have NO credibility. And neither does Christ if this is the *best* His followers can do. This is what *using the Lord’s name in vain* truly means, not a cuss word.
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@ Truth:
Thanks for your commentary. We are extremely interested in the truth here at TWW.
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Velour wrote:
And that is the depth of their sin – that they make Christianity out to look clownish. The world sees this blithering, this hypocrisy, and just rolls its eyes and says ‘see, it’s all ignorant nonsense for gullible sheep’. God help them, because they are far gone.
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@ roebuck:
Well, it worked for a while in SGM churches. Then along came the internet.
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roebuck wrote:
The world looks at it all and says, “They’re in it for the money.” An attorney I know, who came to the U.S. from a foreign country, has repeatedly said that if he wanted to get rich in America he would have *opened a church*!
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@ Truth:
We are going to find out who Nathan is! Can you imagine the shock at TGC if Gene solicited a male? Would his church be reported to the TGC police for not sticking to a gender appropriate complementarian solicitation?
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Deb wrote:
Bingo! Thank you Deb and Dee for all that you do – you have opened many many eyes to the weirdness that is going on today and passing as ‘Christian’. All the time and work you put into this site… is totally worth it! Thank you, and thank you!
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Deb wrote:
Well bless their hearts. Kings Way is going to support the Emerson’s on his “get the heck out of town until this blows over” sabbatical. Now, if they find out it was a male solicitation as opposed to a female solicitation, will they reduce the amount of money for Gene?
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roebuck wrote:
Thank you for reading. We weren’t sure if anyone would be interested.
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Velour wrote:
roebuck wrote:
And here’s the latest thug story, 92-year old Mrs. Josephine King (in ill health and a shut in) was booted from her Baptist Church in Georgia for not tithing!
http://madamenoire.com/579157/92-year-old-woman-booted-from-church-over-unpaid-tithes/
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dee wrote:
I imagine that when you started this blog you might not have known the depth of what you were tapping into. So many hurting and broken people, broken by their ‘church’.
Now these folks know that they are not alone, that they have been abused, basically, That what happened to them with their ‘church’ is not at all what Christ meant for His Church to be. How has it all gotten so crazy?
Good stuff, Deebs, really good work…
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Velour wrote:
Shameful! I'll definitely be looking into this.
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roebuck wrote:
Amen to ALL of that! Kudos ladies!
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Gene Emerson said “for a leader, or an elder to lead, his home has to be in order, his family has to be an example.”(2010)
http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/12/13/sovereign-grace-ministries'modus-operandi-de-gifting-pastors/
However, Gene now gets money for a sabbatical?!! SGM baloney!
SGM-take a clue-soliciting a prostitute (even a male prostitute ) means your house is not in order.
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@ Deb:
I think Julie Anne wrote a post on that.
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roebuck wrote:
What I most remember before we finally launched TWW was that Dee kept saying if we didn't start blogging she feared we would be swallowed up by a BIG FISH!
We have been stunned by the masses of hurting people out there, and we hope this blog can be a balm to soothe their wounds.
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@ dee: I'll check it out. 🙂
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Deb wrote:
Oh, it has been a soothing balm indeed! I know that you guys have a special heart for abused children, as does any feeling human, but the abuse and hurt extend to all ages…
Exposing and documenting the abuse and hypocrisy from these Gospel Glitterati is very important. I feel that it is equally important to try to understand where it comes from, why people put up with it, and how to ‘innoculate’ people against such abuse.
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dee wrote:
Well, he might have had his house in order, his wife all submitted and children all obeying like. It was himself that wasn’t in order. Perhaps if he had spent half the time getting himself in order that he spent trying to force order on others in his home and church things might be different.
The fruit of the Spirit includes self-control, not ordering about others.
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roebuck wrote:
Remember that country song that said every country song has to have jail, beer, your mama, and a train, et al in it? Every SGM missive must use lots of passive voice, use the words humble, significant, gospel, recognize need for the Savior, etc. Bless Matthew’s heart, it’s classic.
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What we don’t know is
Male or Female prostitute?
Has he done this kind of thing before?
When did Matthew find out about it?
Is Matthew part of the cover up?
Will Gene be paid by KingsWay in any way after his resignation.
Will this finally be the end of KingsWay?
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Deb wrote:
Thanks Deb!
I mean, really. Couldn’t the “thugs”, I mean “wolves”, I mean (cough) “pastors”…have been over at her house mowing the lawn, taking out the trash, doing something useful? Just a complete DISGRACE.
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I have questions.
When did Gene Emerson confess to church staff? After he got arrested? So now he’s repenting because he got caught? Well, sort of repenting, because he’s contesting some part of this.
So it took about 6 wks from his arrest until the sermon where they discussed sabbatical to the congregation.
At what point was it determined that he was unfit for ministry? Once the guilty verdict came in? Or before that?
Why did it take from the July 12 sermon until the August 9 announcement – 28 days – for the church to formally announce he was unfit for ministry?
The phrase, “many of us have done far worse” is sin leveling. Um, no, people in the congregation are not the lead pastor, caring for souls.
And the title, “The Goal of our Suffering?” Suffering and taking a paid sabbatical?
They have such weird lingo at SGM: “We honored our members by going into much more length last night.”
READ: You need to be members to get the important stuff (and he does a membership push – ugh).
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@ Truth:
Excellent questions! Hopefully we will find out the answers.
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@ Velour:
This may be a foreshadowing of things to come…
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@ Julie Anne:
Great questions Julie Anne! I had some of the same ones while writing the post.
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Thrilled to see that they allowed a woman to read Scripture in front of men.
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@JulieAnne
Amen!
You know the “Family” was told on Saturday night to not tell anyone any details. The whole Gossip and Slander threat.
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I’m still listening to the sermon and he’s talking about rejoicing in suffering. Now I’m assuming he’s talking about the church’s suffering as they are going through the Emerson situation. Does anyone else find it weird to rejoice in suffering because their senior pastor screwed up (maybe literally oops)? When I normally think of suffering, I tend to think of outside events, illness, trauma, financial woes, life’s concerns, things outside one’s control, etc, but it’s strange to me to put this situation under “suffering.”
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I like Velour’s translation of travel and sabbatical as legal fund and jail.
Another plausible characterization is found in Exodus 32:
“So Aaron said to them, “Take off the rings of gold that are in the ears of your wives, your sons, and your daughters, and bring them to me.”
“And he received the gold from their hand and fashioned it with a graving tool and made a golden calf. And they said, “These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt! … And the people sat down to eat and drink and rose up to play.”
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Surprised that Brent hasn’t jumped on this. In his documents, he cites Gene Emerson as one of the primary figures in the downfall of his (Brent’s) Mooresville church plant.
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Julie Anne wrote:
I think the point of that is an appeal to super-spirituality so that people will not flee. The ones who stay are the spiritual ones. The ones who flee from the wolves who hid the truth from them and asked them to fund the consequences of the extra-marital entertainment of the Lead Pastor are the bad and unspiritual ones. How classically SGM.
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@ AnonInNC:
Brent’s wife is fighting breast cancer right now. I would think that writing blog articles are not high priority for him at the moment.
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Julie Anne wrote:
What’s that scripture about suffering for righteousness’ sake? And being sure not to suffer for doing something evil…
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Caught with a prostie a la Jimmy Swaggart.
Think he’ll suddenly be Called to Plant a New Church just like Jimmy?
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Deb wrote:
You know, I have repeatedly said I will start a Sunday morning bowling team.
This just may do it.
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Did Matthew put Gene’s name up on a power point presentation to discuss him and his errant ways? How else can he be brought into the Kingsway “care” err I mean control. Oh that’s right, Gene’s a manogawd who just had a “significant lapse in judgement” and is above the pewpeons.
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Truth wrote:
My guess is female.
If male, that would be HOMOSEXUALITY(TM) and would have really caused a stir.
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Deb wrote:
Sounds like Newspeak.
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Velour wrote:
“Writing for a penny a word is stupid. If you want to make a million dollars, start your own religion.”
— L Ron Hubbard, founder of Scientology
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Julie Anne wrote:
The other way to read this is: “We specifically DIS-honored the members by hiding the truth as long as we could.”
“But eventually we felt pressured by the fact that police records are open to the public, so then we decided to say something, because it would look worse to keep covering up for this crime. (So we delayed long enough to have a wordsmithing party where the sufficient amount of ‘christianese’ spin was put on it). We added the word “honor” in the announcement as an afterthought, so as to distract you members from our real motives and actions, which was to tell as little as possible all along.”
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Gram3 wrote:
Like that early reality show, MTV’s Real World.
The show went like this: Get half a dozen wangsty teens; put them up in a house nobody in the audience will ever be able to afford, all expenses paid; give them lotsa bling, all expenses paid; jet-set them to exotic destinations every couple weeks, all expenses paid. Then turn cameras on them all the time while they whine about how much their life sucks.
Think there’s a High Concept in remaking Real World with preachers?
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The statement that Gene has never had a sabbatical before is not true. Back before email and cellphones, PDI sent Gene and his family on a three month sabbatical. We were told not to contact them during that time. Dan Stolldorf took over while Gene was gone. Matthew was only six or seven when this occurred, so I'm sure he's unaware of it. The odd thing is that we were told that they would encourage pastors to take sabbaticals from time to time, but I don't think that ever happened again during the short time we were there.
I'm wondering when Matthew found out about this. It looks as if he may have been blindsided, possibly finding out after the sabbatical speech. I asked some friends who still live in the area and read the paper every day; they've seen nothing in the paper about it.
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roebuck wrote:
It means CHRISTIANESE BUZZWORD BINGO!
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Mark wrote:
Nailed it.
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Well the charge was solicitation of pr*stitution, not solicitation of a pr*stitute. I’m no defender of Emerson, but it is possible that the complainant, if a male, could have been an undercover cop acting as the p*mp, not a h**ker, and the arrest could have been made pretty early in the transaction sequence. So don’t jump to conclusions on what the offender’s preferences are/were.
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__
The fruit of the Spirit now includes condoms, lubricating oil, and paid parking?
—
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Bridget wrote:
Pastor sabbaticals are normal in many denominations and in many nondenominational churches as well. In my congregation a pastor normally takes a three-month sabbatical leave for study and rest every seven years.
As for 3-4 weeks vacation, that’s not necessarily the norm in today’s workforce. At my previous full-time job I received four weeks vacation every year once I reached seven years of service. I’m in my third year with my current employer and I receive two days of paid vacation this year. I’ll get five days per year once I pass the five-year mark, although I hope and pray I’m in a much better job long before then.
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singleman wrote:
That does not sound normal for a full-time job at all. I always received one week of vacation after a year of employment.
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I can point to a number of people in Gene’s wake that at one time held decent to high paying jobs, that left them to either serve the church or go to Pastors College. They were discarded by Gene. Many are underemployed, making a fraction of their former salary. Gene uses people and discards them. Just like he was going to use the prostitute and discard her.
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Velour wrote:
Mmmmm. Label each bowling pin with the name of a so-called man of God, and you’ll get a lot of strikes!
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Mark wrote:
The language in the Virginia criminal code is inclusively written as “person” for the purposes of soliciting prostitution.
WARNING TO ALL WHO OPEN THIS CRIMINAL CODE LINK, IT DOES CONTAIN GRAPHIC SEXUAL DESCRIPTIONS IN THE CRIMINAL CODE SO DON’T OPEN IT IF YOU CAN’T HANDLE IT:
http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/18.2-346/
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Nancy2 wrote:
Tarnish perfectly good bowling balls! Never!!!
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Velour wrote:
Thanks for the link Velour! So simply offering to pay is not enough to get a guilty: [this part should be safe for work]
“B. Any person who offers money or its equivalent to another for the purpose of engaging in s*xual acts as enumerated in subsection A and thereafter does any substantial act in furtherance thereof is guilty of solicitation of prostitution”
So the ‘does any substantial act in furtherance’ is a very important distinction, no?
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There is SO much going on here …….
“Innocent of any illicit activity” ????? Well, yeah. He probably got arrested BEFORE any actual “activity” could happen!
Was this the first time he’d ever solicited a prostitute? I doubt it.
Victims?? Yep, his wife, family, and church members — great example for the young people in the church!
Mission trip to Bolivian??? Are there prostitutes in Bolivia? Isn’t prostitution legal there???
Paid sabbatical??? Yep. He can afford more prostitutes in an undisclosed location.
He may be working on saving his marriage because SGM and TGC don’t pay big bucks to divorcees.
Can’t blame his wife if she runs him into the ground.
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Mark wrote:
WARNING: CRIMINAL JURY INSTRUCIONS FOR SEX OFFENSES CONTAIN GRAPHIC SEXUAL WORDS SO DON’T OPEN IT IF YOU CAN’T HANDLE IT.
Some VA Criminal Jury Instructions that I found.
http://www.ocalynchburg.com/Jury%20Instructions/Index%20of%20Instructions.htm#_Obscenity
Go to:
*Obscenity / No.26, then
*Sexual Offenses/No. 30, then
*Prostitution, which starts at No. 30.33
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Mark wrote:
Mark, here’s a case law which may help you understand the legal phrase you asked a question about. It’s from Virginia. It is ONLY for the purposes of understanding this phrase. I don’t have time to look for Virginia case law that has a similar fact pattern to the charges the Virginia pastor is facing for soliciting prostitution.
Warning, it does contain graphic S*XUAL content, so folks don’t open it if you can’t handle it.
http://courts.state.va.us/opinions/opncavtx/0780961.txt
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Truth wrote:
Just like most of the MenaGAWD who come to the attention of Wartburg Watch.
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When was the last time an SGM leader confessed to anything when he wasn’t under the gun? The fact that they didn’t tell the church until 2.5 months after the arrest and a month after the trial/plea deal. They obviously did hide it, although I am quite sure they don’t see it that way. They are only “protecting an elder” and “serving” the congregation.
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Mark and everyone else.
It is a rule that comments are not allowed to try and bypass the moderation filters. Either use a word or do not use it. But don’t try and make it cute.
Thanks
GBTC
Mark wrote:
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Jenn Grover wrote:
The congregation would be better “served” by not allowing a bunch of criminals to lead them!
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I have a recommendation for those still attending KingsWay Community Church – take a sabbatical from that church equal in length to Gene Emerson’s sabbatical. Feel free to check out other churches in the area while on your sabbatical. You may be surprised to discover how much good it will do your soul. Do not feel guilty if you decide to never return. It would probably be the best decision you could make. The Sovereign Grace Churches are sick, sick, sick.
If you don’t want to leave the church I would recommend you at least stop your financial contributions for the duration of Gene Emerson’s sabbatical.
A side note – where are the SGM big dogs in all this? Prater, Mahaney, Kauflin? They are demonstrating once again that SGM is all about money and positive PR. They don’t want to touch this mess with a 10 foot pole. Prater and his cohorts, if they were true servant leaders, would be in Richmond to provide some experienced leadership. Instead it is left to a 31 year old to sort out. A 31 year old who knows only the SGM model of doing church.
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“though he has humbly acknowledged a significant lapse in judgement regarding his conduct throughout the situation.”
“Gene has faithfully shepherded our church”
“What matters is not whether hard times come, but whether a church walks through them with integrity, humility,”
“We are committed to leading with humility and transparency.”
“Upholding the glory of God by protecting the reputation of the gospel and the reputation of our church”
Sorry Matt, too late. Closing the barn door after the animals have all escaped comes to mind. So does train-wreck.
These statements are the direct fruit of the 9 month “Pastors College” that Matthew Williams attended. SGM-speak 101. Undoubtedly Matthew passed the course with flying colors.
And then the best quote from the whole statement:
“And when times get tough, a family pulls together. If you’re a dad, if you’re a pastor, if you’re a leader, you don’t run. You don’t take the easy road.”
Right. Exhibit “A” in the SGM legacy – C.J. Mahaney.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUE4v1rUpSM
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Todd Wilhelm wrote:
If only people from KingsWay would read these blogs. They have been instructed not to. So many people have been there and left over the years. Since the big exodus in 2010, the church is much smaller, but those that stayed are either extremely faithful old timers or clueless newbies. Most of the old timers are probably blaming those of us that left for this mess, saying something along the lines of “It’s because of all of you leaving that put so much stress on poor Gene. That’s why he did this. It’s your fault and we support him.”
I personally want every person at KingsWay to get out of that place. It is poisonous. The poison comes from Sovereign Grace Ministries. My prayer is that they will each have their eyes opened to how bad it is and abandon it.
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Hmmm. A narcissist tactic. Blame working hard (for them) for his crime. And throw the implication of not enough marital sex into the mix.
Too bad he also did not care about the prostitute's soul.
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Lapse of Judgement
This is such a “load of you know what” type of term. It is just a euphemism for SIN. And please don’t believe for a second that this was an isolated case. This was just the “lapse of judgement” where he got caught. What led up to this point was a series of minor and major “lapses of judgement” that went unchecked.
And read very carefully the way Matthew refused to call it sin and the way he tries to minimize it by saying “we have all done worse.” Why did Gene resign? Not because he was caught in sin. He decided to resign over two months after being arrested because the attention it was going to get would be a distraction to the church. Matthew needs to go, too.
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refugee wrote:
19 For it is commendable if someone bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because they are conscious of God. 20 But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. (I Peter 2)
14 If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. 15 If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler. 16 However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name. 17 For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? (I Peter 4)
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@ Gram3:
They are working hard – on all the wrong things. The big boys don’t seem to have time for the little things of ministry anymore. Little things meaning actual love and care for their flock like, you know, a pastor.
No, you don’t need a 6-week sabbatical from speaking tours, Gospel™ conferences, big-wig meetings. The rest of us who work for a living are not impressed. The pastors who haven’t had a day off in years pouring themselves into a small flock are not impressed. Heck, you’re own flock shouldn’t be impressed.
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I guess this qualifies as a tactical defeat for Complementarianism and the Gospel™.
But the congregation there can surely take comfort in the fact that they are merely small potatoes in Piper–errr God’s grand scheme which is the final triumph of Reformed theology over all.
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If you listen to Matthew’s comments, he makes it clear that “KingsWay is a family.” This is to make sure that the people in the Sunday morning meeting and those of us who no longer attend there are put on notice that we are not ( or no longer) part of that family and therefore have no right or need to know any detail beyond what was shared on Sunday morning or in the public blog. I would submit that this thinking is wrong. In the big picture, all Christians are in the same family. When one member suffers, all members suffer. In some regard, Gene’s most recent “lapse of judgement”, (read public sin) affects the entire body of Christ. More specifically, those of us who were members of KingsWay and left that congregation, are affected even to a greater degree. We saw in 2010, Gene’s lack of repentance over how he treated one of his Assistant Pastors who struggled with depression. We also know the mantra that we had preached to us, that the heart is deceitfully wicked and therefore only the leaders are capable of clearly knowing God’s will for us.
Now we see this incident and we see that this Pastor is not so bullet proof. What it causes us to wonder is how far back does the sexual sin go? Was he addicted all along? What will his phone and computer history show us? Why do we care? Because everything we received from him while we were at KingsWay comes into question. Every bit of council and advice. His decisions, both major and minor. All need to be re-examined. Most of us have connected the dots long ago. Many left KingsWay not really knowing why. As we have discovered on this blog and others like it, the problems are systemic and go even to the SGM roots. And just like that poisoned Animas river in Colorado, birds won’t even land on it because something just isn’t right.
The leadership of the church is, once again, rejecting Biblical principles with regard to repentance and restoration of someone caught in sin. The regard for reputation of the church and its leaders over Biblical truth is what makes the KingsWay river toxic…not just the disgusting look of it today. The ugly yellow color of the Animas River will someday go away, but the toxins that the spill poured into the river remain. Disregard for Biblical truth is the toxin. If a person leaves KingsWay or any other toxic church, yet carries with them the poison, they will just infect their family, or even their new church. Seek the Lord, read the Word, ask God to fill you with His Holy Spirit…flush out your system of the poison that has been deposited in your stream bed.
(Reference to the Animas River incident is found here: http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/10/us/animas-river-toxic-spill-colorado/)
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dee wrote:
LOL.
Solicitation of a female is normal behavior, subject to sin-leveling and having the elders cover your donkey while going on sabbatical.
Solicitation of a male, of course, is grounds for eternal damnation.
They’re so far up their own donkeys.
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@ Todd Wilhelm:
Why, again, would you want to be a part of one of these “denominations”? All the control and oversight, but none of the responsibility when something goes south. Oh gracious no, when a leader is caught in sin, local church autonomy takes over while we look the other way and pretend nothing happens!
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@ Truth:
What a great analogy and visual picture of what is wrong at KingsWay and other SGM churches.
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I guess the jig is up, now SGM/SGC/9Marks/TGC leadership has to solicit paid outside services? —
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Todd Wilhelm wrote:
If only they could know this and do this. If only they could see and understand these words
The Bible speaks of songs of deliverance.
People don’t just need deliverance from faceless ‘demons’, sins, addictions, etc. People need deliverance from men and their systems of order masquerading as something divine or holy.
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@ roebuck:
We are trying to get this figured out. In the end I think that many people go into the ministry to control others.
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@ Mara:
When Emerson made that comment, he was in the process of *degifting* another pastor whose kid Emerson claimed was “out of control.” What a flaming hypocrite!
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@ Truth:
If you don’t mind me asking, what drew you in to SGM in the first place? I’ve had to ask myself that question more than once, sadly. Was it the love-bombing? The certainty?
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Nickname wrote:
Never forget, playing quietly in the background, is another sex scandal.
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@ dee: Jenn Grover wrote:
I have always said that the original sex scandals were only the tip of the iceberg. The regular SGM members sacrificed and served that organization. If this had been one of them, there would be no fund raising for a sabbatical. Gene Emerson is a scoundrel who contributed to the pain.
Looks like God wanted him to experience a bit of the pain.
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http://www.kvue.com/story/news/local/2015/02/06/local-pastor-arrested-for-drunk-driving/22989181/
http://www.kgw.com/story/news/2015/01/21/youth-pastor-arrested-sex-abuse-charges/22123687/
http://fox59.com/2015/01/26/brownsburg-pastor-arrested-for-theft-from-goodwill/
http://www.wcnc.com/story/news/crime/2015/04/19/kannapolis-youth-pastor-arrested-on-child-sex-charges/26028671/
http://www.macon.com/2015/05/06/3732331/macon-pastor-arrested-for-rape.html
http://www.jconline.com/story/news/crime/2015/07/11/church-music-pastor-arrested-voyeurism/30013533/
What do these links all have in common? They are all crimes committed by pastors in 2015. What else do they have in common? I couldn’t find where any of them had been covered by TWW.What else do they have in common? I couldn’t find where any of the churches involved are YRR/TGC/SGM/9Marks. Yet these churches were all evangelical churches. And there are some really heinous crimes here too. Child sex abuse in a couple of articles, drunk driving, voyeurism. TWW hasn’t covered any of these scandals but when a SGM pastor sins, well its “Another Day, Another SGM Sex Scandal.” Why?
As I see it, its Another Day, Another Effort to Disparage and Take Down a Particular Segment of Christendom With Which TWW Disagrees. Its all about Watching for Warts, Dissecting Calvinists Since 2009.
Readers, just be aware of the bias.
The fact is, as demonstrated by a five minute web search of the phrase “Pastor arrested 2015”, pastors from all backgrounds and denominations sin in grievous and disqualifying ways. There are systemic faults in doctrine and practice in all kinds of churches which produce environments ripe for various types of abuse. This is true in any sort of organizational structure where humans are involved. I dare say had I searched the phrase “Teacher arrested 2015” I would have probably gotten more hits than for pastors. Every human institution is going to have people who sin, who fail, who go astray, who deny by their lifestyle the principles of the organization they represent. Christianity is no different and we even see in the Bible examples of those who sinned grievously and fell away from the faith.
So the question is, what is TWW here to do? Is it here to protect children or is it here to be an echo chamber for all those who have a bone to pick with the YRR? If child sex abuse is the focus, then articles should have been published about at least some of the easily attainable stories I published in the links above. Research should have been done to warn congregations whether there were any abusive practices in these churches which led to the moral failures of these pastors. Was anything covered up?
If TWW exists to, as the tag line says, “Dissect Christian Trends,” where is the Christian part of that, because it is clear that the focus of TWW is on the YRR and its various movements. Again, as I have said before, a cursory scrolling through the articles here shows a focus on the YRR that almost borders on obsession. This article published above is a good example. A Pastor soliciting a prostitute, though horrible, in all likelihood has nothing to do with denomination or a particular theology. It has to do with a sinful person indulging their sin. This kind of thing is seen across denominational lines. And yet, because Emerson was SGM, he gets front page headlines on TWW. And then all the associations are made. First, in the title, “Another Day, Another Sex Scandal.” So this guy and his sinful libido is linked with the terrible child sex scandal at SGM. You see, this thing happens all the time at SGM, its just another day, another scandal. Then all the associations are made with the church, indicting 9marks and SBTS and TGC. It’s all quite disingenuous. This article is almost a perfect storm, isn’t it? If only somehow John Piper could be directly implicated you’d have it all.
TWW can do some really good things but there is good reason to take it all with a very big grain of salt.
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Todd Wilhelm wrote:
gene who?
doubleplusaungood ref doubleplusunperson.
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dee wrote:
Only a pile of rocks in front of all for the Filthy SINNER.
“I THANK THEE, LOORD, THAT I AM NOTHING LIKE THAT FILTHY PEWPEON OVER THERE!!!!!”
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GovPappy wrote:
RANK. HATH. ITS. PRIVILEGES.
(Including sexual).
Especially for the Inner Party.
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Truth wrote:
“Mistakes were made…”
— Slick Willie Clinton
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@ js:
1. Dissecting Christian Trends: That means churches which are making the news or churches whose people contact us. Think about it. Who is getting the news these days? Well, the YRRs are. They have been most effective in getting their faces in social media. They jump up and down to get recognized and so they do.
2. Now, take a look over the 6 years of our blogging. You seem to have overlooked a few things. Let me list them for you off the top of my head because I have got to help my family with a medical need. We have covered
Bob Jones sex scandal
Ed Young Jr.
Shepherding Movement
IFB group homes
Doug Phillips
Robert morris
Christ Hodges
Dean Rizzo
A number of IFB churches involved in sex scandals (Jack Schapp, the church in NH)
Beeny Hinn
Prosperity Gospel
Mac Brunson: FBC Jax
Steve Gaines
Jerry Sutton-Two Rivers Baptist
Prestonwood Baptist Church
Steven Furtick
Perry Noble
Paige Patterson
Darrell Gilyard
The Brydons and Generations Church
Church of the Wells
Jeri Massi and Schizophrenic Christianity
Rick Warren
The Arc
Kevin “Womb Tomb” Swanson
Justin Lee
Brad Sergeant
Ergun Caner
Peter Lumpkins
__________
Issues (which are not YRR only)
Homosexuality
Membership Contracts
Domestic Violence
Child Sex Abuse
Authoritarian Pastors
Pedophile Data Base and the SBC
Fairfax Community Church
Franklin Graham
ECFA
John Catanzaro
__________
And if you follow my tweets you will see that I am constantly retweeting about pastors who are being arrested
________________
Here is the coup de grace: Guess whose sermons we feature every week on our Church: Wade Burleson. He is Reformed in his thinking but is egalitarian in the gender wars.
__________
Nice try, JS. I have to get going but perhaps my readers would like to weigh in. We have quite a few who are Reformed in their thinking. And, unlike a lot of the big boys in the yRR movement, we take comments like yours and allow you to critique us.
Finally, I just looked at your comments on our blog that you made under the JS moniker.You seem to have a thing about defending YRR and denouncing our coverage of the YRR movement.
Since you are concerned about our perceptions, perhaps you could tell them to stop jumping up and down to get attention.They are getting it.
I have got to get going. I would be happy to list more later.
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Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
Darn straight, HUG,
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@ Gram3:
For the sake of brevity, I won’t go into too much detail. When we came to the church, it was seemingly a good mix of decent teaching in a charismatic environment. We were drawn in by the worship. It was not long after that they started to discard the things of the Spirit in favor of Reformed Theology. We went along with it for a long time but when the way Gene had treated his Assistant Pastor came to light in 2010, we saw that the problems were systemic and afflicted pretty much all of SGM.
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js wrote:
That is an odd defense of the YRR who seem to obsess over a few issues. In fact, those very few issues are their distinctive. You only seem to comment in order to vigorously defend the YRR and the Gospel Glitterati. Are you obsessed with their defense?
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@ Truth:
Liked your comment on survivors Truth. Question…what do we know about Matthew? Kool Aid drinker? What is his story aside from the biography on the website? There has to be a story or two…SGM bleeds pain.
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@ js:
Nice try JS. You even used lots of words. It is simply a matter of current power and reach. The Neo Cal movement has been growing leaps and bounds among youth in some very nefarious ways and claims to have the true Gospel. It involves some large seminaries. Just look at how many followers Piper has on twitter as one example and his creepy influence.. And they are so obvious with their hotel California churches. The only thing that shocks me at this point is that CLC still exists. Do people really give them money?
Be patient. Other thought reform movements are gaining ground. Just think, a YRR darling, Driscoll of Acts 29, is hanging with another creepy movement. There will be all sorts of connecting lines on the Evangelical map to cover. Just give it time.
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@ Truth:
Thanks for your reply. It is interesting to me to see the various ways we are hooked by different dysfunctional systems. It must have been very distressing to see those changes and to find out that your pastor was untrustworthy. Thank you for your insight into this situation, and I hope you are in a better place now.
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@ js:
Member of Kingsway? I love it when the church/pastor is written about. You see the faithful who can’t admit the wrong, the carnage or hubris? Instead you circle the wagons and dig the trenches. JS I’d love to solicit your advice as to why you are a member of Kingsway? 😛
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@ Truth:
Another thing that felt familiar to me was that it took something really wrong to break the spell. I wish it had only happened to us once, but I guess we are slow learners.
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lydia wrote:
Well, we already have Piper with Doug Wilson. That is creepy. I suspect that the lines which connect them will be money, influence, and power. Doctrine is a means and not the main point. It will be compromised if it is necessary to protect the money, influence and power of the men at the top. Which also protects the self-esteem of those who derive their identities from those men or those Systems instead of from Christ.
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js wrote:
Don’t flatter yourself. TWW has covered stories on abuse in different movements and denominations. They covered my former cult which defies categorization.
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dee wrote:
JS, I forgot about this. They are constantly hawking books, promoting conferences and begging us to be taught by them on social media. It only makes sense to check them out and analyze their teaching. Don’t worry about it. Their followers will be told not to listen/read others who don’t agree with them. Their followers are taught to obey elders and such or be disciplined. A few brave souls have opted for neither.
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Gram3 wrote:
Oh yes. Totally forgot. And then there was Piper + Rick Warren
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Gram3 wrote:
. And many young “true believers” will have a big wake-up call.
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Todd Wilhelm wrote:
But are these members under a church membership covenant? Perhaps Plan B for getting around that and leaving.
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js wrote:
The Wartburg Watch is a volunteer-run organization. They make no money off it. It is truly a labor of love. They can’t cover every story, including the ones you cited. Why didn’t you start a blog and cover them? Why did you wait for a secular organization to cover them?
I am aware of YRR/TGC/SGM/9Marks churches in sex abuse scandals, particular child sexual abuse scandals. I have no doubt that given their authoritarian nature that we will hear many more.
Most troubling is the fact that the Kings Way leadership didn’t bluntly tell the membership, “Pastor Gene Emerson was arrested for soliciting prostitution. He is biblically disqualified from being a pastor. [Cite appropriate Scripture verses.]
He has been terminated from his job here. We will continue to take care of his wife and children and provide for their financial and spiritual needs. We will minister to Gene and seek appropriate help for his sexual sin. Would the entire church please continue to keep the Emerson family and the church leadership in prayer.”
Tell it like it is! That buys respect from believers and unbelievers!
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BeenThereDoneThat wrote:
Nicely said!
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Deb asked, ‘In his Sunday message Matthew emphasized the statement above about many of them doing far worse than Gene Emerson. To what is he referring – the child sex allegations? What does he mean by the statement “Many of us have done far worse”?’
Reading gowsipy gowsip blogs like this one, perhaps?
SGM pastor Jared Mellinger, on Nov 6, 2011, preached:
“Words can do incredible damage. [A] question for the discerning. Which would be more dangerous for a Christian to be exposed to? A website devoted to sexually immoral images or a website devoted to sowing suspicion against leaders and tearing people down.”
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Gram3 wrote:
This is what happened I suspect with Mark Dever and CJ Mahaney. My gut tells me that Mahaney threw money at Dever, and Mark felt an obligation to protect him. After all..with T$G it was a wise business decision to protect CJ
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__
Is TWW just performing an unpaid ‘gossip rag service'(r) on this latest SGC/9Marks church leadership fopa, or are they (TWW) and their commenters providing useful and formative information, and prayful concern for those who choose to continue to attend services there?
—
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Truth wrote:
As if the leaders' hearts aren’t also deceitfully wicked. This is one area I wish current members of Kingsway would reconsider. Couple this with what GovPappy called “all the control and oversight, but none of the responsibility when something goes south” and you have a recipe for disaster. I am living this disaster right now.
People need to learn to listen to the Spirit for themselves, make their own decisions, and stand accountable for those decisions. It’s hard at first after you’ve let somebody dictate your life for any length of time, but it’s worth it.
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@ js:
And the Kingsway Truth Squad is on full Attack Dog mode.
Fair Game Law invoked from Gold Base.
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@ js:
They may focus on YRR a lot on this blog, but they do sometimes cover abuse by other denominations and churches. They did a series on abuse by IFB sponsored girl schools, IIRC, a few months ago.
If you find yourself upset by the content of this blog or by some of the regular posters, you can always take a vacation from it and need read it for a few days or a week or more. I’ve done that before.
I’ve been teed off a time or two here myself, but I still recognize it’s their blog, and they can write about whatever they want. I might choose to stay out of threads if I don’t agree with the main topic, for example.
YRR is a big trend in Christendom the last decade or so. The topic was on the cover of print magazines, like Christianity Today several years ago.
Some YRR guys are, from what I’ve read, stealthily and dishonestly taking over established churches from Non-Calvinist people, and YRRs have shown a tendency to be authoritarian. I think those topics deserved to be discussed.
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dee wrote:
And one of the Privileges of Rank is sexual rights over ALL inferiors, from Roman Paterfamiliai to Herd Bulls/Harem Bosses.
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@ Bridget:
Supposedly, sabbaticals are for both rest and renewal. My church grants 12-week sabbaticals after 10 years, but there is to be a goal for the time, not just vacation. For example, a special course of study at a seminary, working on a project that wouldn’t fit in the normal work schedule, etc. Our pastors return with wonderful ideas to implement in the ministry, and a new outlook. They are better staff for the time away. So, that is how sabbaticals should work.
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Truth wrote:
A dysfunctional and abusive family….
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dee wrote:
When I mentioned in a handful of my early posts here how awful many churches and Christian culture is to singles (the divorced, never married, widows), you guys graciously did a few posts about that topic.
(And on how the church mis-treats people with mental illness. Also, the dangers of nouthetic counseling. That was another bother of mine, and still is, and you guys covered that on the blog a time or two as well.)
Thank you for that, Deb and Dee. And thank you (and other readers here) for putting up with me ever since, on that topic and just me being a pain in the neck on occasion. 🙂
Does JS have any topics he’d (or she) would like to see discussed on this blog? Maybe Deb and Dee would consider doing a post or letting you, JS, write a guest post about whatever it is?
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@ js:
I’m at work and haven’t gone through all the links you posted yet, but just a response from what I’ve seen on the links, I see the word “arrest” in all of the url’s. They’re getting coverage and justice already. Perhaps they do deserve their own stories – nobody’s denying that. But two people can’t cover them all. Which leads me to my next point.
We all have our experiences for a reason, yes? God has placed us or brought us from unique situations that have given us a different perspective on certain aspects of Christianity. Mine happens to be hard-core fundamentalism of a few different shades and churches. These stories are relevant to me because some of the same aspects of fundamentalism that make it dangerous are present in many of these YRR churches that are appearing in the news here. I’m concerned, as several of my friends and family are involved in these kinds of places. I can’t ignore where I’ve come from and let my friends and family walk themselves and their children down the same paths I just left by the grace of God. Sure, I have a bias, we all have a bias. We’re using it here to try to warn others off from abusive environments, because many of us have already been burned – not just by people and churches, but also by doctrines.
In the same way, this website is founded by two people who have their own stories and insights which they are bringing to bear on these movements and churches. It’s simply using their past the best they can to help others’ futures.
As Dee has already said, they’ve covered a wide range of stories since TWW has been around, so your criticism is a bit unfounded. If lately coverage has been weighted more towards the YRR & friends, it’s only because it’s big and the doctrines and leaders are popular and have huge followings. The membership covenants, authoritarian leadership, stances on women, etc are all red flags to us.
To come around full circle in my point, just like I don’t want to see my friends and family walk down the same paths I walked down, I don’t think the Deebs are entirely content with just reporting on bad situations that have already happened. They also want to prevent the abuses, and one way is to air the doctrine and practices that leads to these abuses. If you disagree with their assessment of any given situation, that’s all fine and good – we’re here for discussion. But your criticism of their mission seems off base.
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Eagle wrote:
I think it was more than just money. I think that someone thought that combining Dever’s academic credentials with C.J.’s marketing and conference staging and church-planting skills would advance their agenda. I don’t think Dever and Mohler and Duncan would sell their credibility for a contribution, but they would if they thought that joining forces with Mahaney would help them gain influence in wider circles. And it did exactly that. Then Mahaney imploded. I think they were blinded by their pursuit of advancing their ideology and their personal influence which also entails, of course, personal enrichment. Once they were yoked up Mahaney and he imploded, they could either admit they were conned and were foolish and poor leaders, or they could spend some personal capital and bluster their way through it to try to make it all go away. They chose to spend their personal capital, many of their fanboys ate it up and obediently followed orders. But it has not gone away.
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east stop your financial contributions for the duration of Gene Emerson’s sabbatical.
@ Todd Wilhelm: Todd’s is a great idea. Pastor sabbaticals are a pet peeve of mine. Most ministers get a month of paid vacation (from the beginning of their employment) and then are off at seminars, etc. so actually don’t do a whole lot of preaching. If a person wants to be a preacher, then preach and stay and pastor your congregation. Other than university academics I know of no other job that grants sabbaticals. I think it is stupid.
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lydia wrote:
Yes. Non-Christian cults do this.
Was it Scientologists, Mormons, or Jehovah’s Witnesses who made their members put special filters on their computers in the early days of the internet so that they could not view content critical of their respective groups? I read about that in articles years ago but can’t remember which group it was.
I think Scientology tried to “bury” critical web pages in search results by having jillions of their members each create a personal profile page.
The idea was searching for the word “Scientology” would lead to all the positive-sounding member profile pages, rather than “Operation Clam Bake” and whatever.
That was several years ago. I don’t know if those pages are still up.
YRR Driscoll (or he’s a former YRR now?) told his Mars Hill members to ignore or stay away from MH critical stuff because “it’s all shenanigans.”
And yet other Christian groups (YRR, usually) continuously write blog posts screaming about “discernment blogs” and how wrong and un-Christ-like it supposedly is to be critical of local churches or preachers.
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Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
I have no idea, as usual, what your reference is. Is JS really a Kingsway member? It would explain some other interaction I’ve had with him.
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A “lapse in judgment”??? Okkaaayyy . . .
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dee wrote:
This is one of those comments that’s not funny, but funny . . .
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Tina wrote:
I’m going to have to remember that phrase for the next time I seriously screw up… I mean, experience a lapse in judgement.
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Daisy wrote:
Kip McKean, leader of the International Churches of Christ, referred to negative publicity about the church as “spiritual pornography”.
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Daisy wrote:
Since we left our cult, they’ve required members who do have internet (usually people with businesses. No one is supposed to have it in their home.) to install Covenant Eyes so their internet use can be monitored.
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JS,
Please allow me to serve you by humbling pointing out your sinful heart.
Do you remember when Jared Mellinger spoke from Malachi 2:1-9 on November 6, 2011? Through his careful, humble exegesis of the text he revealed an issue that served me well by pointing out a weakness of mine and an area of sin in my life that I still struggle with today. I hope that you will prayerfully recall what Jared (one of our cherished, humble leaders whose teachings we have been graciously allowed to sit under and benefit from) taught us that day. He spoke as the very oracle of God!
Here it is, I hope it will also serve you well. “Words can do incredible damage. Question for the discerning: which would be more damaging for a Christian to be exposed to — a website devoted to sexually immoral images, or a website devoted to sowing suspicion against leaders and tearing people down? Friends, there is more than one way to ruin your soul. Avoid ungodly speech, avoid speaking it, avoid listening to it —for the sake of the holiness of the church.” Yes JS, blogs discussing SGM’s Issues may be worse for your soul than porn.
With that truth in mind JS, may I humbly ask you who is the authority over you? That is, who is watching over your soul; who is the man who must give an account for your soul on the last day? Allow me to serve you well by telling me your pastor’s name so I can tell him that you are struggling with the sin of not only reading, but commenting on a blog that is critical of SGM. Your authority figure will than be able to better hold you accountable in your weekly accountability meeting.
Also, to serve you well, I will be watching for your presence on this blog. Anytime I see a comment by you I will humbly remind you that we are both the greatest sinners we know and if we stay off these blogs we will be doing better than we deserve.
Blessings brother, I am now off to shave my head!
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BeenThereDoneThat wrote:
This is creepy control-freakery in the extreme. They want their pew-peons to remain ignorant children, the better to control them. Gah! and Phooey!
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Velour wrote:
Here’s the 12-page document that lists their “Relational Commitments.” It’s a doozy. http://www.kingsway.cc/Websites/kwcc/images/About_Us/Relational_Commitments.pdf
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roebuck wrote:
Yes. While we were there, those of us with iPhones (which I had) had to have our minister lock certain features down, including the browser, with a passcode. it was the only way we were allowed to keep the iPhone. I was 40 years old and being treated like a minor.
Of course, with a little sleuthing, I found that the passcode was backed up in a folder on my PC. I had full access within a few days, heathen that I am. 🙂
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Tina wrote:
A totalist system cannot tolerate information from outside the system. It is a brittle system, and they know it just like Kip McKean knows it. And Kim Whatever in North Korea knows it. And Wayne Grudem knows it. And Robert Morris knows it.
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Liz Emerson,
If you are here reading this blog post please get yourself tested for STDs. Yes, it’s humiliating, I’ve BTDT. However, your health/life are more important than some embarrassment.
Your husband has been convicted of solicitation. That was almost certainly not his first time seeking a prostitute. It was just the first time he got caught.
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BeenThereDoneThat wrote:
Oh. My. Goodness. That’s crazy.
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__
Life in da 501(c)3 calvinesta religious fast lane, huh?
https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=sSBAPMQEctg
—
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@ Elizabeth Lee:
That is great advice. Health care professionals encounter this all the time, and there is no need for embarrassment, though I’m certain I would feel it in her place. They, along with lawyers and police, are the ultimate realists about human nature. And so much for prostitution being a victimless crime.
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roebuck wrote:
It’s curious how some Christians use euphemisms to downplay the seriousness of things.
When that TVC pedo guy was in the news and that Duggar guy was in the news, I kept seeing Christians on social media refer to their acts of child molestation as being “a mistake.”
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“Lapse in judgment” for shepherd = Sabbatical.
“Sin” for sheep = Church Discipline.
We attended a church recently for a few months that was meeting in an elementary school. We left when we realized the whole 9 Marks thing was prominent…signing a covenant was mandatory,etc. Last month the young pastor was caught cheating with the principal of the school. She has 3 small children. He has a teenage daughter. He’s gone from church and home. As for the covenant and church discipline he was cramming down his sheep’s throats a couple of months ago? Ha! He won’t even take any calls or messages. I think he had already used up his sabbatical.
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@ Tina:
Oh brother.
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BeenThereDoneThat wrote:
That is nuts. People are grown adults. They should be able to view pretty much whatever they want news-wise / information wise online.
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@ EMR:
Thank you, that was it. It’s a little harder to look up verses on my phone while juggling an internet discussion forum, so I appreciate your taking the time to find and post the passage.
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BeenThereDoneThat wrote:
We’re getting a similar secular rumbling from Sacramento, regarding constant monitoring to be sure we lowborns Conserve Water and Gasoline and Carbon Emissions in the Name of The Plaaaanet. Including laws coming down the chute for mandatory GPS trackers on all cars so Sacramento can punish those who drive excessively (i.e. Sin against The Plaaaaaanet). So far nobody’s been whipped naked through the streets for watering their lawn (“SINNER! SINNER! SINNER!”). Yet.
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Truth wrote:
Ah. They can glory in their suffering for the cause of Christ.
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@ Velour:
Thank you for the warning. I really appreciate it. I did not open the link, but will continue to follow the discussion.
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Daisy wrote:
“Mistakes were made…”
And as long as its opposite-sex, even incest is apparently Halal.
Like Jihadis raping 12-year-olds in ISIS’s Caliphate:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/isis-enshrines-a-theology-of-rape/ar-BBlHDWR
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BeenThereDoneThat wrote:
Closest thing to that in my church is the announcement at the beginning of Mass to turn off or mute your cellphones for the duration.
Nothing like having phones go off right in the middle of the Consecration or Elevation of the Host (for Prots, those are the most sacred moments of the Mass)…
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Truth wrote:
That’s a page right out of Doug Phillips’ book.
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Elizabeth Lee wrote:
Assuming Liz doesn’t have to ask her Husband/Overseer’s permission first.
“What is Thy Will, My Lord Husband? How might I better Submit?”
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So, like, would this be an approved circumstance to bring out the insults outlined in your Monday article “The Gospel™ Art of Insults: One More Way to Demonstrate the Love of Christ?” Or does it still not apply because … pastor?
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Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
Oh, that’s nothing. Target removed the boy/girl signs on the toy aisles!!!
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LInn wrote:
The guidelines and expectations seem clearly outlined and probably? agreed upon by your church body. That is different than many here see and experience.
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Truth wrote:
Are leaders capable because they are heartless, then?
(rhetorical question)
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Truth wrote:
Ah, this is what drives me to distraction about a Gothard-follower I am in frequent contact with. She compartmentalizes: *this* was bad but does not mean that all his teachings should be re-examined or even questioned.
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Jinx wrote:
Absolutely. The YRR crowd accepts Luther and Piper still loves Driscoll’s theology. Let me get you started.
You are a toad eater and a fawner.-Luther
http://ergofabulous.org/luther/?
You are, generally, pathetic.-Driscoll
http://driscollize.me
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@ js:
Um. I am not TWW, though I read here, and comment sometimes (some times more than others).
I am not from an SGM background, though SGM has been extremely influential in our local homeschooling community.
Perhaps your own bias is showing? Perhaps you are YRR, and don’t see anything wrong with it? Or you are using the junior high/middle school defense of “everyone else is doing the same thing, or worse!”
Or perhaps you have a very strong sense of justice, and see exposing YRR abuse in general, and SGM failings in particular, as unjust, unless it is “balanced” by exposing everyone. All or nothing thinking.
There is a wealth of material out there, and just because TWW may have emphasis on SGM/YRR failings, doesn’t mean they are making out everyone else to be lily-white, or ignoring the abuses in other types of churches.
There are only so many hours in the day.
There are a lot of spiritual abuse blogs out there. Many of them specialize, because the blog-owners have personal experience with one particular kind of church. I believe one of the Deebs has had personal experience in leaving not one, but two churches.
One law of writing is “Write what you know.” A corollary is “If you don’t *know* something from personal experience, research like crazy.” I see this philosophy in most of the posts here at TWW. Sometimes (IMO) the Deebs let their exasperation show, and yes, at those times I get out my salt shaker. But for the most part, there’s good information here.
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js wrote:
Aha! I get what you are saying! The YRR and its various movements are *not* Christian!
(pardon the sarcasm. I have a headache today.)
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@ dee:
Nice reply, Dee. Of course you’re much more familiar with the range of subjects covered by TWW, than I am.
I’m not really aware of them all, because I started reading on account of issues in our own family life — the articles that were relevant to me — and I tend to skip over articles about people or churches I’ve never heard of, unless they parallel my own experience and the issues I’m trying to work through.
Just because I never attended an SGM church, doesn’t mean I haven’t experienced similar issues in the churches I *have* attended.
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@ dee:
Matt Chandler’s “narcissistic zero” is still my current favorite.
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lydia wrote:
…and will become atheists and agnostics as a direct result of these “godly” men and their teachings and the example they (don’t) set.
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@ BeenThereDoneThat:
Mine as well
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@ refugee:
Good comment!
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@ refugee:
Too funny!
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@ Steve:
That is a great example!
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Elizabeth Lee wrote:
I never experienced anything like that during my time there – never heard of it happening and never saw it.
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@ Elizabeth Lee:
Totally nuts!
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They have taken it down–surprise, surprise–but you can still see a copy of the letter Matthew sent to the church members about Gene’s sabbatical. Google “gene emerson sabbatical.” Then under the first result, click “Cached” under the little green arrow.
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Elizabeth Lee wrote:
This is a great comment. So many people are embarrassed to go to the doctor. I can personally vouch for medical people. STDs are just another diagnosis with treatment protocols. Medical people are rarely shocked by anything. In fact, it is all in a routine days work.
I smiled when I had to bring my mom to the Emergency room. She was embarrassed because she had on some old clothes. All the medical folks were interested in was the bump on her head.
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Velour wrote:
The Virgina criminal code is incorrect, as written, and needs to be revised to reflect modern times. A stand up comic explained it this way. He said that there is no such thing or action as “soliciting prostitution.” The sex is always free. You are simply offering to pay the “person” to go away after the sex.
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Todd Wilhelm wrote:
Funniest comment of the week!
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Tina wrote:
Funny. This phrase might be more appropriately applied to Driscoll’s teachings about the marriage relationship, or really any aberrant teaching like ESS or works-based salvation.
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@ Tina:
I have to admit I did chuckle a bit.
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JulieAnne123 wrote:
Ooooooo, hide and seek. One of my kids’ favorite games. I’ll post the link for you.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:DKXGVfsZbSwJ:www.kingsway.cc/genes-sabbatical+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
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Sopwith wrote:
Subject falls under ” Do as We Say not as we do pastors”, church disciplinine – not applied to leadership, lying, hypocrisy, etc
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In other news, I’m back from Staffordshire.
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From Matthew’s cached letter of July 20. (Thanks @JulieAnne123)
===============
To use Gene’s words, it’s like “living in a spiritual fog”
===================
I say sin will do that to you Gene.
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refugee wrote:
Welcome.
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lydia wrote:
That is a very Mark Driscoll-ian, Pat Robertson-ish view to take.
These sorts of guys always blame the women if or when the husband strays off the reservation of marital relations. (The wife is supposedly not putting out enough, has let herself go, too much of a nag, and on and on with the wife-blaming.)
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Gram3 wrote:
You know how dangerous that can be: young girls may start to play with Lego blocks now.
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BeenThereDoneThat wrote:
Do indirect insults count? Some of the money grubbing preachers tell people if they don’t tithe they are ingrates, or God will sic demons on them, or allow their marriages to end in divorce.
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singleman wrote:
In older denominations – e.g., the Church of England – this is indeed a common practice. But one shouldn’t overlook the “study” bit. The vicar is supposed to return from sabbatical with knowledge and experience (s)he didn’t have before. As distinct from, say, a new book deal.
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dee wrote:
As a teen, I worked as a check out girl at stores. People would get embarrassed to bring up personal hygiene products, birth control related type stuff, underwear, etc.
Yes, your sales clerk can see what it is you are buying, but we didn’t particularly care. We only noticed enough to make sure your product scanned and was ringing up at the right price.
But we didn’t really care much. Especially when you’re there several hours in a row scanning and ringing up all kinds of junk all day long, we just don’t care about your bra, preparation h, jock itch ointment, or whatever.
I’ve had to buy personal stuff too, or bras. So even your sales clerk knows what it’s like to be on the other side of the register.
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Daisy wrote:
In other words, they put a Curse on you if you don’t give them what they want.
Just like the Witches and Conjure Men and Hexerai in Manly Wade Wellman’s Appalachian weird fiction.
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JulieAnne123 wrote:
As of now, It Never Existed, Comrade.
(Just like this Lead Pastor and his Elder Board:)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_images_in_the_Soviet_Union#/media/File:Soviet_censorship_with_Stalin.jpg
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dee wrote:
What was that strange phrase TVC used on Karen? I don’t think I saw that in his post.
His post could have really gone through the roof in excellence if he had included something like, “We want to push you under our care,” or whatever odd phrase TVC used on Karen.
Their wacko phrase that was meant to convey concern but sounded like one of those veiled threats that mafia guys like to use in the movies.
“We’re making an offer you cannot refuse,” or, “We know where your family lives.”
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KINGS WAY — what an appropriate name!
I shall let one of my favorite authors comment for me:
THE OLD ISSUE
Rudyard Kipling, 1899
“Here is nothing new nor aught unproven,” say the Trumpets,
“Many feet have worn it and the road is old indeed,
“It is the King–the King we schooled aforetime!”
(Trumpets in the marshes–in the eyot at Runnymede!)
“Here is neither haste, nor hate, nor anger,” peal the Trumpets,
“Pardon for his penitence or pity for his fall,
“It is the King!”–inexorable Trumpets–
(Trumpets round the scaffold at the dawning by Whitehall!)
“He hath veiled the Crown and hid the Sceptre,” warn the Trumpets,
“He hath changed the fashion of the lies that cloak his will.
“Hard die the Kings–ah, hard–dooms hard!” declare the Trumpets,
(Trumpets at the gang-plank where the brawling troop-decks fill!)
Ancient and Unteachable, abide–abide the Trumpets!
Once again the Trumpets, for the shuddering ground-swell brings
Clamour over ocean of the harsh, pursuing Trumpets–
Trumpets of the Vanguard that have sworn no truce with Kings!
All we have of freedom, all we use or know–
This our fathers bought for us long and long ago.
Ancient Right unnoticed as the breath we draw–
Leave to live by no man’s leave, underneath the Law–
Lance and torch and tumult, steel and grey-goose wing,
Wrenched it, inch and ell and all, slowly from the King.
Till our fathers ‘stablished, after bloody years,
How our King is one with us, first among his peers.
So they bought us freedom–not at little cost–
Wherefore must we watch the King, lest our gain be lost.
Over all things certain, this is sure indeed,
Suffer not the old King: for we know the breed.
Give no ear to bondsmen bidding us endure,
Whining “He is weak and far;” crying “Time shall cure.”
(Time himself is witness, till the battle joins,
Deeper strikes the rottenness in the people’s loins.)
Give no heed to bondsmen masking war with peace,
Suffer not the old King here or overseas.
They that beg us barter–wait his yielding mood–
Pledge the years we hold in trust–pawn our brother’s blood–
Howso’ great their clamour, whatso’er their claim,
Suffer not the old King under any name!
He shall mark our goings, question whence we came,
Set his guards about us, as in Freedom’s name.
Here is naught unproven–here is naught to learn,
It is written what shall fall if the King return:
He shall take a tribute; toll of all our ware;
He shall change our gold for arms–arms we may not bear.
He shall break his Judges if they cross his word;
He shall rule above the Law calling on the LORD.
He shall peep and mutter; and the night shall bring
Watchers ‘neath our windows, lest we mock the King–
Hate and all divisions; hosts of hurrying spies;
Money poured in secret; carrion breeding flies.
Strangers of his counsel, hirelings of his pay,
These shall deal our Justice: sell–deny–delay.
We shall drink dishonour, we shall eat abuse,
For the Land we look to–for the Tongue we use.
We shall take our station, dirt beneath his feet,
while his hired captains jeer us in the street.
Cruel in the shadow, crafty in the sun,
Far beyond his borders shall his teachings run.
Sloven, sullen, savage, secret, uncontrolled,
Laying on a new land evil of the old–
Long-forgotten bondage, dwarfing heart and brain–
All our fathers died to loose he shall bind again.
Here is naught at venture, random or untrue–
Swings the wheel full-circle, brims the cup anew.
Here is naught unproven, here is nothing hid:
Step for step and word for word–so the old Kings did!
Step by step and word by word: who is ruled may read.
Suffer not the old Kings: for we know the breed–
All the right they promise–all the wrong they bring.
Stewards of the Judgment, suffer not this King!
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Elizabeth Lee wrote:
I think that most or all of this document comes from model documents provided by Peacemaker Ministries, peacemaker.net. Go to this page, “Church Policies that Promote Peacemaking”, http://peacemaker.net/project/church-policies-that-promote-peacemaking, and you will see paragraph #2., “Adopt biblical **Relational Commitments** so that you can live out your convictions of biblical church government and mutual accountability without government interference.”
This has a link to another page: http://peacemaker.net/project/relational-commitments/
Finally, at the bottom of that page is the link to the PDF file of a booklet with most or all of the text found at Kingsway’s website: http://peacemaker.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Relational_Commitments.pdf
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Daisy wrote:
In the words of the prophet Al Yankovic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wa9cMAPF3qI
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Gram3 wrote:
Don’t know for certain, but his behavior here sure arouses that suspicion. If you find others we’ve never seen before signing on to post the same Anathemas word-for-word, that would confirm it.
As for the Clamspeak references:
* Fair Game Law – all Enemies (and dissidents) of Scientology are fair game.
* Gold Base – Scientology HQ (one of many sites). “Flag” is the head of Scientology himself.
When your church has parallels to Scientology, you might want to rethink things.
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Steve wrote:
That really does summarize it. Different rules for sheherds and sheeps.
I’ve been listening to the sermon. This poor kid is so self-absorbed, when anger at his fallen mentor would be so appropriate. This isn’t godly suffering… It’s consequences. God isn’t doing this to test this church… Gene did this.
Just out of curiosity, how big is this church? I hope these people can find healthy places to recover.
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refugee wrote:
Doug Phillips ESQUIRE(TM) who cosplayed as General Patton and went down in a sex scandal for Keeboarping his teenage Commander’s Handmaid under Cover of Authority? (Since he never actually put tab A into slot B – just Onaned over her – he could wipe his mouth and proclaim “I have not Sinned – I did not Know her in a Biblical Sense”. Spoken like a lawyer looking for a loophole.)
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Wow…look at this. While Kingsway covers things up and hides the truth the Mormon Church revealed pictures of the stone Joseph Smith supposedly used in translating the Book of Mormon.
http://www.sltrib.com/news/2802019-155/mormon-church-to-release-more-documents
People are amazed that the Mormons are being more transparent. Maybe SGM can learn a thing or two from the Mormons.
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Daisy wrote:
I remember stepping on Lego blocks back in the 1960s. Ouch!
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Eagle wrote:
And here’s some commentary on it from a Mormon’s blog:
http://janariess.religionnews.com/2015/08/05/mormons-react-to-first-ever-photograph-of-joseph-smiths-seer-stone/
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Daisy wrote:
Well, the fact is that Concerned Christians who shop on the Lego aisle at Target capitulated to culture a long time ago. The “girl” Legos are sold right there alongside the “boy” Legos and have been for quite a while. What is a Christian parent to do if their son picks up a pink or purple brick? What if their daughter picks up a blue brick that wasn’t in the girl set? These are the kinds of questions that keep parents up at night. So I am thankful that CBMW is working on this crucial issue.
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Nick Bulbeck wrote:
In the case of RevKev, it is highly unlikely, I’m sure, that his “study break” which has only three weeks to run will result in a new book. He only publishes a few each year, so the odds of his regular summer study break coinciding with a book deal are vanishingly small. If that were to happen, however, I’m sure that his financial deacon would send a bill to Crossway for RevKev’s time.
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__
Forget the STD’s, it will be like starting over?
https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=rwoVdMFQ_Ns
—
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@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
Thanks for that explanation. Have not had contact with Scientology, thankfully.
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Gram3 wrote:
In our home, what hasn’t already been sucked up by the vacuum cleaner or tossed under the furniture by the cats (which will also, eventually, be sucked up by the vacuum cleaner) is all mixed up together. My girls and boys play with all colors. The creative capacity is endless. I sleep fine at night, but if CBMW wants to knock themselves out . . .
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BeenThereDoneThat wrote:
Here it is: http://alvinreid.com/wp-content/uploads/chandler_critics.mp3
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BeenThereDoneThat wrote:
I think they will eventually knock themselves out. Before that, thinking people will tune them out if they have not already done so. What I have discovered is that most people in the churches have never heard of CBMW.
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BeenThereDoneThat wrote:
CMBW apostate! And you sleep well! Work your way up in to some grief. Yes, fake it!! Let the mascara run, like Tammy Faye.
How did I ever get to be a Christian with guns, trucks, forts, fishing, etc. I guess we slipped under the radar! I guess we were confused by the lack of boy/girl signs in the toy aisle. I had a great time!!!
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Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
And on that last one, from what I read recently, the last one is a fairly safe bet for a prophecy, as the statistics seem to show that the divorce rate for fundamentals and evangelicals is higher than average. (average who? not sure if it was everybody, or non-churchgoers) Or something like that. I’m too lazy to seek out the actual statistics today, but I remember being struck at reading this the other day.
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@ Amy Smith:
I’d forgotten all the other insults he used. He packed a lot into that few minutes.
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@ Gram3:
And @Velour
I don’t remember any of this being a big deal 40 years ago. My brother played house with my sister and I with our dolls and home made kitchenette. And we’d play with my brother’s enviable collection of Matchbox cars; driving around cities made of Legos, Tinkertoys, and Lincoln Logs. That is when we weren’t riding our bicycles around the neighborhood for hours until the streetlights came on signaling that it was time to return home for dinner.
I hope people do tune out CBMW or their kids might need therapy when they’re grown.
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@ Mara:
Mara, brilliant point.
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BeenThereDoneThat wrote:
I grew up in a nice quiet residential area where it seemed every household had 5, 7, 9 kids (never seems to have been an even number for some reason) – my family had 7. You got home from school, changed your clothes, wandered out onto the street, and in minutes had a gang of kids. One of the important elements of my growing up (insofar as I’ve grown up – hey, I’m only 60!) was sandlot games of touch football and baseball…
Anyway, I have 3 smart and beautiful sisters, the youngest of whom, in addition to being beautiful and very smart was also strong and fast and highly agile and coordinated. When we chose up sides for our various games, she was among the first ‘draft picks’, as it were. Kids’ sandlot ballgames in the 60’s were the ultimate meritocracy! 🙂
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@ BeenThereDoneThat:
“Since we left our cult, they’ve required members who do have internet (usually people with businesses. No one is supposed to have it in their home.) to install Covenant Eyes so their internet use can be monitored.”
++++++++++++++++++
may I ask the name of this ‘cult’?
are they on the TGC list, by chance?
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elastigirl wrote:
It’s called Homestead Heritage. TWW did a post on it in 2012. They aren’t associated with TGC in any way. In fact, they’re very different theologically. Their core beliefs are Oneness Pentecostal, but their lifestyle resembles the Amish or Mennonites. They are very heavily into Shepherding, which is where I see a lot of similarities between HH and SGM.
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@ Gram3:
One of their bigger problems is that more and more people are not seeing the major difference in their foundational beliefs about gender and Islam. Methods, yes. But not the foundational thinking about gender. That is going to become a bigger problem but at the same time, it will attract those who such rules, roles and formulas.
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roebuck wrote:
Yeah, try it in a real job.
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@ Todd Wilhelm:
LOL!
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Elizabeth Lee wrote:
Thanks, Elizabeth. I will read it later.
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Lydia wrote:
Exactly! The CBMW and their ilk teaches/preaches: “Shehad” (sounds like Jihad).
The word “Shehad” is brought to you courtesy of a man named Brad who posted it over at Julie Anne’s Spiritual Sounding Board. Kudos to Brad! Spot on.
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refugee wrote:
I believe that was Barna’s research showing that born-again Christians, and specifically Baptists, had a higher divorce rate than atheists.
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elastigirl wrote:
Scary. I guess they haven’t heard of smart phones.
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Velour wrote:
I wonder if “Shehad” is Hebrew for “Jihad”. The two languages are closely-related in the Semitic language family, and the three-consonant roots (“shd” and “jhd”) are similar.
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Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
“She” is for the pronoun for a female person. Thus “Shehad”: The War on Women by the NeoCals and their ilk.
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mirele wrote:
I played with Lego when I was a kid. I actually didn’t care for too many of the toys made specifically for girls.
My mother kept trying to get me interested in dolls, so she’d buy me Barbies, but I never was into those.
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Is this the same fool “Gene” that tricked “Brent “Detwiler” out of his position using another willing underling. Wages of sin is coming back with a vengeance. Pay back from God is a sweet revenge for Brent Detwiler. They can’t blame it on him. The shame must kill Gene Emerson right about now! I cannot believe these are the guys who were leading all these years. What a crap! I would urge all SGMers to stop giving and demand to apply the same heavy handed discipline these guys applied to so many and destroyed relationships, marriages, friendships. Do not relent for the sake of Christ. Stop these guys from shaming the Lord anymore. What a crying shame all these so called leaders in SGM, TGC, T4G, young and horny or whatever they call themselves
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Nick Bulbeck wrote:
In other news, “God’s” recipe for Yorkshire Pudding is now immortalized at the top of the page under the Interesting tab, then choose Cooking.
I was strongly *rebuked* by Beakerj that one could not possibly have a salad with roast beef, gravy, and Yorkshire Pudding. (Look it, I live near the ocean in a sunny and warm climate, we eat a lot of salads!) Beakerj’s menu suggestions have been added to the Yorkshire Pudding recipe menu:
broccoli, carrots, peas, roasted potatoes and perhaps roasted parsnips
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
May the aroma of Yorkshire Pudding baking in homes across America be a pleasing aroma to You. (We’ll try not to burn the edges.)
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How “lapses of judgement” is it going to take before the evangelical Church wakes up to the corruption that exists in leadership and stops treating them like celebrities who are allowed to get away with everything?
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That should read How many “lapses of judgement”
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Niteowl wrote:
I used to ask myself that question a lot. Now, I just realize that most people in the churches just don’t particularly care. And the guys in “leadership” know that. There are way too many pewpeons who find their identities in the Big Guys than in Christ. Look at the people who show up here to defend what is indefensible.
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Daisy wrote:
I loved both Legos and Barbies. As I think back to my childhood, I probably spent more time playing with Legos since I have a younger brother. We often played together. 🙂
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Gram3 wrote:
Spot on.
Thankfully for the internet we can begin to hold church leaders accountable when their own church members will not or are too afraid to.
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For further commentary:
http://www.sgmsurvivors.com/2015/08/12/kingsway-pastor-convicted-of-solicitation-of-prostitution/
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Pastor Lapse O. Judgment : “Gee, I’ve totally kept to the straight and narrow, faithful to my wife, never looked at porn, took every thought captive, etc…but today I think it’s time to drive to a sketchy part of town and talk about hooking up with a ho!”
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Any Bob Seger fans here in the house?
Here’s an excerpt from one of his ditties that puts it all into focus:
Here comes the rich man in his big long limousine
Here comes the poor man all you got to have is green
Here comes the banker and the lawyer and the cop
One thing for certain it ain’t never gonna stop
When it all gets too heavy
That’s when they come and go
With only one thing in common
They got the fire down below
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They say that language is always evolving, and I guess that applies to SGM-ese. “Serving” their members has given way to “honoring” them. Serving was just so overused.
RE: the STD comments. Information relayed to me indicates that in Virginia, all who are arrested for sex crimes are routinely tested for AIDS. Don’t know if the testing includes other STD’s.
Though the suggestions meant for the wife of the culprit are practical, I hope she is not reading here. Her life will never be the same. She doesn’t need to worry about what anyone has to say about it. But she does need to know we are praying for her and honestly care about her pain. If you know her, maybe it would be good to send her a card. She is as much a victim in this situation as the other SGM victims, and caring for them is one reason many of us still keep up with SGM situations.
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GovPappy wrote:
I have a similar background, and COMPLETLY agree with this post
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seems to me that in the Church, we need to tend to our own consciences and pray for the grace to have patience and to have the strength for self-control when tempted . . .
all this pursuit of ‘Church discipline’ seems to be focused on trying to control the behaviors of other Christians from an external loci (point), which then backfires when those doing the controlling of others reveal themselves to be just as flawed or worse than the ones they presume to correct
The idea of repentance is an internal one: a person is personally moved by the suffering of Christ on the Cross, and makes a turn away from sin and towards the light of Christ. You can’t ‘control’ this process externally. For it to be real, it has to be genuinely a matter of the conscience of the individual being moved to repentance by the Holy Spirit.
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Nickname wrote:
I refer you to “The Principles of Newspeak”, by G.Orwell:
https://fathertheo.wordpress.com/2013/03/16/the-principles-of-newspeak-by-george-orwell/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspeak
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I agree with @Christiane. This is where KingsWay’s problem becomes so glaring and why it is worthy of coverage on this and other blogs as opposed to other scandals. KingsWay is part of a system that has abused authority for so long it is important to understand what happened, but even more important to hold these leaders to Biblical standards.
Repentance is internal, but it’s one of those things that when it is disingenuous, everyone knows it. Specifically, in the case of Gene Emerson, he has had two watershed moments. The first being 5 years ago, where after months of challenging from several Godly friends over the way he mistreated the firing of his Assistant Pastor who was suffering from depression, he stood in front of the church and supposedly repented. Anyone with a lick of discernment saw right through it as just saying what needed to be said to get past the controversy. A handful of famililies stayed at KingsWay after that and were “faithful to Gene” while Gene’s 26 year old hand picked Executive Pastor, Matthew Williams ran the show.
Fast forward to today and the sin Gene was caught in is much more blatant, yet there is no mention of sorrow and repentance. It’s like the delinquent who proclaims “I’m not sorry I did it, I’m just sorry I got caught.” And now 31 year old Interim Senior Pastor, Matthew, does not call for repentance from Gene, but feeds the congregation with double speak gobblygook because that is all he has ever known.
Those of us that were in that church and have left are begging those that remain to leave it behind because it is a poisonous place. Go someplace where you can be freed from the legalism and actually make an impact for the Kingdom.
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Lord, how long shall these ungodly pastors triumph? How long shall all these unrepentant SGM/SGC pastors act so wickedly and speak so disdainfully, and make such proud boasting? They have corrupted the people, O Lord, and have troubled your heritage; deliver your children from their greedy and unclean hands, and graciously bring them to a place of safety by Your sovereign power!
In Jesus’ name!
Thank-You!
Sopy
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Truth wrote:
I suspect that is true. I was not in SGM (though my last church was influenced by it) and that seems to be the pattern. The head guy brings in very young guys, then the head guy is free to become a bigger guy. Pastors College seems to me to be the place to train new guys in the System. Kind of like Burger U. or other franchise “schools.”
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Christiane wrote:
Yes, this. You speak the truth in love and trust the Holy Spirit to work in their lives if they’re a believer.
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I suspect there are some Richmonders who are wondering what’s happening to the church in that area. KingsWay is located just a few miles from the church formerly known as the Richmond Outreach Center. The ROC’s former senior pastor, Geronimo Aguilar, was convicted in a Texas court earlier this summer on charges of sexually assaulting two minors while serving at a Texas church in the 1990’s. He could receive life in prison when sentenced in October.
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Nicely done.
Your humble recommendations to me are definitely better than I deserve.
Todd Wilhelm wrote:
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GovPappy wrote:
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dee wrote:
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Gram3 wrote:
I totally agree. I have watched this over and over the last 15 years or so. It is the same story…the pewsitters are “tolerant” and more apt to “defend” their guy than really think things through from what they are taught to certain behaviors they would not put up with elsewhere but give a “Christian” pass if they have the right title. And when they have that foundation– calling it “grace” and forgiveness” –they tend to be easy pickins to believe whatever they are taught about the abuse/doctrine.
I came to the same conclusion that it is the “identity” of the group, the insitution or the stage persona they are really clinging to. I think we see this “identity” challenge with js’s comments. He is particularly concerned about bringing up SGM/Reformed scandals. I saw a ton of spiritual abuse in seeker megas that were not Reformed. It is about power and control over others and frankly, SGM has been the poster boy for shepherding cult tactics in this day and time. Mahaney mentored quite a few of the current YRR movers and shakers.
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Daisy wrote:
I totally agree that YRR topics deserve to be discussed. My point is that they should not be discussed as the sole focus of a blog whose tagline is “Dissecting Christian Trends.” In other words, the focus has been trending toward near exclusive coverage of the YRR and this can lead to unfair associations like in the original post. I’m not asking for a certain percentage but an effort to search outside the narrow bounds of the YRR for a fuller view of the Christian world.
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Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
Not at all. Not a member, never heard of the church before this. No playbook in use.
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JS wrote:
Since you are free to comment here and correct any bias or misperception, then what, exactly, is the basis for your complaint? You accuse the Deebs and the commenters here of being obsessed, but from our POV, the YRR is the party with the obsession to exert their power over everyone, to take over denominations, to put more than half their pewpeons under man-made laws, etc.
If you don’t like the way YRR is portrayed here, then why not start your own blog?
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Velour wrote:
>>>Money is not the only motivation for action. The fact that TWW makes no money on this site is irrelevant to me. Nor do I know their true motives but I know they can have good or bad motivations regardless of money.
>>>In addition, the Emerson story would likely have never seen the light of day here without the SGM connection. And had some of the other situations I posted in my original post been explored like this one I contend that we would have found, at least in some cases, similar obfuscation by perpetrators and tone deafness by church leaders. In other words, in cases like this, churches often drop the ball.
One example I have seen where a disqualifying sin seemed to be handled in an excellent way was the case of RW Glenn at Redeemer Bible Church, a reformed church in Minnesota. The church seemed to handle all above board, communicated to the congregation and removed Glenn from ministry and their church’s website. Interestingly, TWW covered Glenn, but only his fall and his associations with YRR.
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Lydia wrote:
Yes, I have seen that in a mega that is decidedly not YRR. I suspect that if the Deebs had this blog a couple of decades ago, that story would have been covered. And, no, I do not want to revisit that whole thing again because it led to even more garbage later on that we needed to take out.
It is about men who want power. Period. It happens that the Gospel Glitterati personifies that lust for power and control and suppression of dissenting views. In fact, they are the Gospel Oblitterati since the “gospel” they preach is overlaid with laws and rules and roles.
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js wrote:
Are you aware of any of the Gospel Glitterati who endorsed Glenn who have reported on that case or repented of elevating him? I have in mind people like Challies. Talk about obsession and blindness to things going on, is there anything bad that Challies *ever* reports on that occurs in the YRR world? I don’t think so, and that is one reason Challies has little credibility outside his bubble.
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@ Gram3:
As a matter of fact, Challies and Joe Carter and how many others shut down comments or curate comments or do not allow comments because they are afraid of dissenting views. JS, have you ever called them out on that at their blogs, or are you obsessed with the Deebs?
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Gram3 wrote:
The bigger the mountain of inferiors you have to trample down and climb upon, the higher you get.
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js wrote:
You seem all over the map here.
Deb and Dee do discuss other denominations, groups, and topics here on the blog, not YRR exclusively.
(They have a search box thing and search links on the upper right hand side of this blog where you can explore and see other churches they’ve written about.)
You say on the one hand you’re fine with them covering YRR, but then you’re not fine with it.
But then you’re OK, you say, with a certain percentage of YRR coverage, but not what is in your view “too much” of it.
How are you going to quantify this? Would you give Deb and Dee a guideline, like they are only allowed, per your permission, to post YRR-critical posts once per month, or twice every four months?
What would be an acceptable limit to you, and why do you get to dictate when and what they publish?
No offense to Deb and Dee her, ahem, 🙂 ,but I’m not a large supporter of the Young Earth Creationist posts they do every so often, but I just stay out of those threads, by and large.
It’s their blog and they can blog about that if they like. It’s not my place to tell them they can only bash YRR “x” times per month. Though if it was every other post, I’d probably take long vacations from the blog. 🙂
They have posted before on other non-YRR groups.
You said,
“exclusive coverage of the YRR and this can lead to unfair associations like in the original post”
I’d have to go back and reread the original post. I’m not sure off hand if I can or could agree that their linking this to some YRR movement or another is necessarily false or unfair.
Do you know a funny thing happened when I posted many months ago on social media a story about a YRR / Calvinist preacher who was arrested for exposing himself to a kid in public?
A YRR guy replied to me that by posting that news story, I was making YRR / Calvinism look bad. The guy was all concerned for the reputation of Calvinism, not that some guy was perving on kids!
I hope you can see how utter devotion or unquestioning loyalty and acceptance to a particular preacher, church, or system of theology (or aversion to such being criticized) can blind you to a bigger picture or injustices in the world (which is pretty scary, I think).
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@ Gram3:
I think one of the big reasons for the focus on YRR is not only the proliferation of scandals, control freak pastors and the bizarre use of the word”Gospel” but the fact they were early adopters of social media to build what became a huge brand in social media, too, not just some large churches or family of churches.
This changed everything. With the same medium used to build the brand, people are using to respond to abuses. This will always make some people uncomfortable who will then want to use certain censoring tactics.
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Daisy wrote:
Ooh, a type there.
I meant “YEC” there, not YRR. (Young Earth Creationism)
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Gram3 wrote:
It is all “willful blindness”.
Mohler has never explained his devotion to Mahaney and promoting defending to the media even after he fled to Dever. And look at the influence Mahaney has had. This does not even include the academic deals for SGM with SBTS which were found out, his giving some SGM family members jobs, etc. No one in the SBC with any gravitas dares to question him publicly. His trustees are yes men. (See TWW and post on Trustee Gunn)
Not one word from any accounting source in the SBC and he was using SBC resources as an employee of an entity. There are hundreds of stories of these men from this movement simply pretending nothing has happened. How many who were promoting Acts 29 as the answer to the true Gospel are now pretending: Mark who?
There is a huge trust issue out there. They count on the fact that most people who are donating are not paying attention and their social media followers certainly won’t bring it up nor will the loyalists in the Gospel Glitterati who hope to get closer to the celeb thrones.
The sad thing is scandal fatigue for new victims. There will be fallout for YEARS from all the deterministic controlling abuse and celebrity worship just from this movement.
Now there are some new ones adapting a more social media presence who will replace them at some point
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If you guys be interested in the topic of church discipline. I wrote a post about the upcoming 9 Marks SEBTS Church Discipline conference. I also analyzed Jonathan Leeman’s article on church discipline and the para church. The question I pose is this…do organizations like the Navigators or Cru have a right to exist?
https://wonderingeagle.wordpress.com/2015/08/14/sebts-church-discipline-conference-9-marks-jonathan-leeman-and-eric-cartman-say-respect-my-authoritah/
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@ GovPappy:
Pappy totally agree! This issue destroyed a friendship, and almost destroyed my life in a false accusation. I’ve had others involved in Acts 29 churchs and I am concerned for them as well. Meanwhile my past includes the hubris or Mormonism and I was stunned to discover that there are those in atheism who were deeply hurt by fundamentalism or who couldn’t get their questions answered or discussed.
What are you supposed to do when you have that kind of hubris in your life? When religion and faith has brought about nothing but pure pain and anguish. In my late 30’s I had to start my life all over. Everything I banked it on imploded. Its the hardest thing to do..and life ahs enough challenges to include relationships, marriage, work, finances, etc…
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“A deep and profound sadness and the dark realities that have come forth?”
(A testimony)
“I don’t read at this blog site which has done so much good for so many including myself that I don’t think we could exaggerate how much good it has done for many more people than we know.
But the very day this tragedy involving Gene E was posted here a friend in G burg who I happened to call told me about it.
I knew Gene and his wife for years at CLC and they took us through premarital counseling.
Later I drove to Richmond for three visits as Gene wanted me to come to Richmond and I was drawn to the prospect primarily because of our close friendship with Bob and Marsha D.
As much as I wanted to be with Bob and get away from CLC leadership, I sensed something was phony and I felt a strong check from the Spirit in going there.
Upon first hearing this news it barely phased me in light of everything else that has been exposed.
But pondering it further has truly saddened me.
I have no self righteous indignation whatsoever but a deep and profound sadness and the dark realities that have come forth since 2011 have become more than I can wrap my mind around and honestly I don’t even want to try to put into words my analysis or processing of how such things have happened.
Truly my mind is tired of it all and my heart is simply utterly saddened.
This is Jimmy Swaggsrt type reality.
I thought I had heard the worst discovering the kind of counsel given by “godly” Christian lawyers to pastors who then followed that counsel – could it get any worse?
Apparently.
And I am wondering how much has been covered up that has not been brought to the light.
Probably much more than has been revealed.
What deeply grieves me is how many have simply concluded Jesus is not real and have turned away from seeing Him as the only hope for human existence and why – because of their experience of church life which is supposed to be the pillar and foundation of the truth concerning God, His Son, and the precious Holy Spirit.
I want to believe there are real pastors somewhere in this world of America but I wonder if men like Paul are shaped in environments in which the church is persecuted – I just don’t know anymore.
I mentioned to my friend here last night,
“Do you realize that without the internet we would know none of this?”
Sure, we have all sinned in grievous ways but to not bring it to the light on your own is serious but to cover it up even after it is known makes me wonder if love for God or fear of God is even on the radar screen of the collective conscience of this “work of God” anymore.
The God of the Bible whom they so eloquently spoke to us about does not seem to be their reason for existence or One to whom they will give an account.
I still hear CJ’s hollow promise ringing in my ears after his appeals to give more money to SGM :”We will never do anything to embarrass you…”
That is not even our concern anymore.
The heart wrenching concern is a great disillusionment and even apostasy that their unrepentant blatant sin against God and His people has come to pass is something they feel absolutely no fear about in relation to God nor any shame whatsoever for it appears that money and love of reputation has demon possessed their souls and darkened their hearts and minds so they now worship created things rather than the Creator and seem to be sinking down into the depravity described in Romans chapter one.
It seems God has turned them over to do dispicable things and not to stop one another from doing so.
Why is confession so hard?
I have heard enough of this nightmare and I will ask my friends not to fill me in anymore on the horror of it all.
I am feeling that a great judgment is coming on America and as described in Hebrews it seems everywhere it is beginning with the household of God.
I have just an inkling of how Jeremiah must have felt and why he had to write the book of Lamentations.
Though I am personally happy, I cannot help but feel saddened by all of this.
How empty and lonely and devoid of the Spirit must Gene’s heart have been to take refuge in soliciting prostitutes!
I feel sad for him and his entire family and Kingsway church which has certainly not been led by the King’s Way of sacrificial love for His people. -Paul Kellen
http://www.sgmsurvivors.com/2015/08/12/kingsway-pastor-convicted-of-solicitation-of-prostitution/comment-page-2/#comment-88742
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“Is It Time For Us To Something?”
hmmm…
”We will never do anything to embarrass you…” -C.J. Mahaney
What?!?
GeneE, like many others in SGM/SGC, is a victim of a bankrupt unbiblical religious system.
If you think that is O.K.,
then do nothing.
Sopy
__
Inspiration relief:
Matt West : “Do something”
https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=b_RjndG0IX8
🙂
—
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Daisy wrote:
Ask any survivor of Cambodia’s Killing Fields how much “Purity of Perfect Ideology” can justify.
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Daisy wrote:
I read widely, listen widely and learn from a variety of people. I am beholden to none of the YRR and am not and never have been a member or attender of any of their churches (save one visit to Capitol Hill when I was in DC on a trip). I don’t think I’m blind, I just don’t see things exactly like many here. I appreciate the opportunity to express my opinion.
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Lydia wrote:
I agree with all of this until the last sentence. A request for fairness in reporting is far different from censoring, especially since I have commended on many occasions the work done here. I have no problem with challenge over legitimate issues but the original post was, IMO, an illegitimate linking of an individual’s sin with an entire movement.
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Sopwith wrote:
Gene is not a victim, he is a sinner who made sinful choices which led to his demise. Just like dozens of other pastors every year from all kinds of denominations and all kinds of theological systems.
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js wrote:
In case you haven’t noticed The Young, Restless & Reformed (YRR) movement is covered with more frequency because of how big, sweeping, destructive, and authoritarian the movement has been.
I know pastors and elders in churches around the world who are alarmed at what has happened to the American church. (Those pastors and elders in other countries have been serving for 40+ years.) They have noted that American Christianity now has more in common with radical Islam than we the freedom we are to have in Christ. That is spot on!
A man who posted at the Spiritual Sounding Board has come up with a new term for the YRR/NeoCal and their ilk’s War on Women: “Shehad” (She for the pronoun). It sounds like Jihad. So true!
Older Christians say it didn’t used to be this way.
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Gram3 wrote:
The YRR do not corner the market on curating comments. Some on the blogroll of TWW have done this. But I am not going to charge TWW with guilt by association because they don’t curate comments except in extreme cases and I admire them for this stand.
I have challenged Challies over his handling of SGM. I have never challenged Carter because I rarely read Carter (I’m not much for the “9 things to know about this” or “7 things to do about that” articles and that is his forte).
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js wrote:
You have fakers in there.
Mark Driscoll was selling and marketing himself as being a YRR guy. Now that his Mars Hill church fell apart, it looks like he’s trying to re-brand himself as being some kind of Charismatic friendly guy.
Some people, like him, are (or were) attracted to YRR to make more money or to lord authority over others. I guess because YRR has been so trendy the last ten years and some of its underlying theology is appealing to abusers and control freaks.
The Charismatic stuff, though, is appealing to greedy con artists who want to bilk money off people more so than control them.
Tell folks about that pressed down and running over stuff, if they give you five dollars, God will return it to you as five thousand.
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Matthew mentioned a recording of the family meeting. I doubt they will make that public at this point. Some have said Gene spoke at that meeting and gave his account and what actually happened and why he maintains he is innocent.
Unless someone from inside posts or hears that recording everything above is just conjecture, but it is hard to imagine a scenario where any of it makes sense.
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js wrote:
The entire Young, Restless & Reformed/NeoCal movement is OFF the rails and should be rebuked and chastened for what they are doing. Destructive. Authoritarian. Zero to do with the freedom we are to have in Christ.
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So maybe this is a stupid question, because after all this is SGM. But why don’t they mandate him to go to an Every Man’s Battle conference and join a recovery group ASAP? Oh yeah, they don’t believe in that stuff. Silly me!
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rbrook wrote:
Well there was enough evidence to get him CONVICTED. I wonder if the police had a sting operation and if the whole thing was taped; it frequently is taped. I’d be interested in the evidence being released.
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Velour wrote:
The world has changed. We don’t know what the evangelical world would have been like without the YRR (though I am sure many here would like to have found out). I think it would have been worse off, perhaps, but I know I am in the minority here in that opinion. Anyway, older people generally think the good old days were better. And I’m saying that as a middle aged person, not a young guy just out of seminary. I see the YRR as loud and boisterous at times but hardly as taking over the Christian world. If you look at the best selling Christian authors, a few of them are YRR and many are not. When you look at the largest churches and most influential Christians in our culture, almost none of the are YRR. Christians in our culture are far more likely to be informed by TD Jakes and Joel Osteen and Joyce Meyer than by CJ Mahaney and Mark Dever. My guess is that we would probably be shocked to know how few evangelicals even know who John Piper is, much less the lesser known YRR personalities. Pastors I know are far more likely to be influenced by Andy Stanley or Rick Warren than the YRR. Yes, it is true in the SBC that there has been a movement toward YRR by Mohler et al, but even here the SBC is far from a Calvinized denomination and will probably never be so.
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Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
Reading the account of JD Hall praying an “imprecatory prayer” for the destruction of the Supreme Court building was very disturbing. I couldn’t help but think of Jesus’ words to James and John when they wanted “to command fire to come down from heaven and consume” a Samaritan village when they refused them: “You do not know what manner of spirit you are of. For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.”
I can’t identify with what some Christians are promoting. I just can’t. We’d be naive and arrogant to think what happened in Cambodia couldn’t happen here.
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Velour wrote:
They’re all just a bunch of narcissistic zeroes, aren’t they?
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js wrote:
That is a point which needs to be argued. Was this incident unrelated to the culture of double standards for the shepherds? We may never know. But I do not honestly believe that if a pewpeon at a SG church did what Emerson did that Matthew would have characterized it the same way. That is a point which I think you miss. They have set up a corrupt system that is nothing like what Jesus has called his church to be. Instead of higher standards for the shepherds, they have no standards. I will say that at least in this instance there was a resignation. Given Emerson’s apparently deep involvement in the SGM system, I think it is legitimate to call attention to this when pretty much what they encourage is paying attention to the Leaders.
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js wrote:
You are entitled to your opinion. How you can ignore the tremendous harm done by this authoritarian thinking to the name of Christ, the cause of Christ, and to His Body…is beyond me.
It’s an abusive, destructive system…the sooner we get rid of it…the better.
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js wrote:
And what was his response, if any, to your challenge?
I don’t follow your analogy to TWW blogroll. I was pointing out that the people you defend curate comments to shape the narrative or propagate bias, and that is what you are complaining about. I see a disconnect there. That has nothing to do with the blogroll at TWW and their alleged practices.
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js wrote:
I’m not prepared to assert that the evangelical world would have been better without the YRR movement. I think that the enemy is perfectly capable of creating any number of movements based on false teaching. Just like he has throughout history. But the question you raise is irrelevant because those other things which might or might not have been better/worse did not happen. The only relevant question is whether or not the YRR movement with its authoritarianism and heretical teaching and subterfuge and elevation of celebrities to demi-god status is anything at all like the church should be.
I agree with you about the problems with the people you cite. But their failings does not mitigate the failures of the YRR movement. ISTM that, if you are sympathetic to the movement that you would want them to clean their house and take out the garbage instead of calling the garbage a banquet.
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BeenThereDoneThat wrote:
He probably learned that from his hero, Doug Wilson. The Federal Visionists are big fans of imprecatory prayers. I’m not saying Hall is FV, but he is probably attracted to Wilson because he is a pugilistic Female Subordinationist Calvinist. And that is all that matters to Hall.
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@ js:
This reminds me of an argument I used to use as a kid: But mom! Sally is worse than me!
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js wrote:
Maybe the movement which has a shepherding cult focus to it needs to quit giving us so much to be concerned about? From Driscoll, to Mahaney to Chandler TVC and the experiences of people who have been in these YRR churches. There is a much larger theme going on that one individuals sin. That theme is how such things are handled with different rules for the leaders whether it is hiring a prostitute or protecting child molesters/pedophiles.
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js wrote:
Wow….I was in my late 30’s when I had to deal with some of this crap. In my case I was pressured to attend a Sovereign Grace church plant in Arlington, Va. During the ordeal (and mind you I made mistakes also…) a false accusation was given birth to that threatened my name, my job and future employment. While I lived under the threat of being reported to law enforcement for something I didn’t do, the care Group Leader from the Sovereign Grace church started working on recruiting someone else.
I’m not old, we’re probably a similar age. But there is a lot of crap out there and this stuff exacerbates it.
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Lydia wrote:
I believe this is exactly why the problem at Kingsway is another example of the systemic poison in SGM’s DNA. Shepherding. As long as these churches continue to operate under this model, there will continue to be problems.
When most people think of Shepherding they think of the Fort Lauderdale Five of Christian Growth Ministries. I think Cindy Kunsman gives a better overall view of the movement:
http://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2013/02/revisiting-shepherdings-history-and.html
” Henke’s model describes this through the distinctive of Suppressing Criticism and of Image Consciousness. Eventually, this became the perfect storm that leadership could use to abuse their own liberties for their own advantage, because their judgment (and their “needs”) were seen as God’s divine will, the Sacred Science. And these factors also set up the system that would necessitate a new form of church discipline, the Dispensing of Existence.”
“CGM disbanded after people in nearly every shepherding group began to experience serious problems because of spiritual abuse. Christians were emerging from these churches and parachurch groups with symptoms identical to people who were exiting any other non-Christian cult like a Moonies or Hare Krishnas.”
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@ Eagle:
I haven’t yet finished reading your post but this caught my attention:
“Is the church today withering because of a lack of church discipline, or because love doesn’t exist?”
Good one.
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__
“Budda Bing, Budda Boom?
hmmm…
js,
hey,
There are those here who ‘could’ eat you for lunch.
huh?
I’m just gonna sit here and eat my popcorn and watch what happens…
🙂
‘Bless your heart!’
*
(addendum)
GeneE received his words from among the thorns of SGM’s 501(c)3 abusive, authoritarian religious system, although the word of God was available to him and the abundance of promises sealed in Jesus’ blood therein, yet the care of this fallacious manufactured 501(c)3 religious system, and the deceitfulness of greed, choke the word of God, and his life and his pulpit became unfruitful.
Then da ‘storm’ came…
WHOSH!
Big Budda Boom!
(sadface)
Sopy
—
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Lapse in judgment? LAPSE IN JUDGMENT? A lapse in judgment is when I forget to raise the seat before I pee. This is a lapse in character, not judgment.
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Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist wrote:
No…a lack of character…those that stay there….a lapse in judgement.
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These things do not happen out of the blue, there were signs of corruption earlier. Emerson would not now be bringing disrepute on his profession by solicitation of a prostitute if he had been fired in 2010 for lying about a colleague. It seems soliciting a prostitute is the only thing that can get these guys fired, er, put on sabbatical.
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Mark wrote:
The website of Debra D. Corcoran, Emerson’s defense attorney, states that it is not uncommon for law enforcement to use undercover officers to pose as prostitutes in order to catch potential solicitors, or “johns.” She doesn’t mention about an undercover cop acting as a p*mp, but of course that is always a possibility, too.
http://www.richmonddefensefirm.com/Criminal-Defense/Sex-Crimes/Prostitution.aspx
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@ Joe2:
If she couldn’t get him off the hook, then the case against him must have been air tight.
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Truth wrote:
And I wonder if Gene Emerson’s soliciting prostitution was also videotaped and recorded since police do that in most of these sting operations. I would be interested to know what the government’s evidence was against him.
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Bill M wrote:
Edwin Edwards used to say they would have to catch him with a dead girl or a live boy. Last I heard, he was granted a sabbatical of sorts, but I cannot remember if it was seven years or not.
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Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist wrote:
LOL!
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js wrote:
In case you haven’t noticed, The Wartburg Watch writes and posts a story every couple of days. They do a lot of research as well. They handle a huge volume of posters.
If you have additional information, links, etc. about a story for follow-up why haven’t you kicked it into gear and emailed it to them? Why do you just sit back and whine, complain, and nit-pick. More importantly, as Gram3 and others have stated, why haven’t you started your own blog to address these issues that you are so concerned about?
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Velour wrote:
Also, why haven’t you posted on a story the follow-up information that you are concerned that gets covered by The Wartburg Watch. Other people do that and Dee and Deb follow-up. Why haven’t you?
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Velour wrote:
Good point. Just because TWW exists doesn’t mean they’re the sole purveyors of information on this front. Got a story? Write it up and forward it on. Heck, you may even be featured here. The Deebs have been nothing but welcoming of that sort of thing, as far as I’ve seen.
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^^Wait a second…. What happened there?
It looks hilarious, actually.
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BeenThereDoneThat wrote:
My type example of “imprecatory prayer(TM)” comes from an old Cecil B DeMille Bible Epic:
“O GREAT CHEMOSH! O GREAT BAAL! BRING DEATH AND DESTRUCTION DOWN UPON ALL MY ENEMIES!”
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I see that some of the discussion is centering around why they ran this story when this type of thing happens all the time and it is never mentioned.
What makes this story significant is two things.
First is the fact that this particular pastor was, at one time, a regional bigwig in the SGM organization. There are many posts on here and elsewhere highlighting the way this organization has abused its power over the years.
Secondly, there has been a pattern over the years of abuse from this particular pastor and the way this entire affair has been handled reflects the twisted system that undergirds everything this particular church does.
If you were to apply a franchise model to SGM, KingsWay would be a company owned store. There is a connect the dots thing here…the point is that the problems are systemic and the ills of a pastor of a dinky church in Virginia harken to greater problems in the entire organization in this case.
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Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist wrote:
Doc, there seems to be an outbreak of that in the New Calvinist churches in my area! Both pulpit and pew can be found playing with the things of the world throughout the week. Very little evidence of Christianity in their lifestyles, but their looseness attracts multitudes of young folks who desire this type of “church.” You won’t hear “pursuit of holiness” sermons at these works, because there is very little of that in the pulpit. You can’t preach what you aren’t walking.
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In case people don’t read Survivors here is another case where Gene Emerson showed “bad judgment.” I am posting a comment someone else posted there below:
In response to Out There’s question about Gene’s “other sin”.Here is a summary of the situation I am sure there is more to the story, but I found this in SGM Survivor’s archives from August 2010……………………
About ten years ago, KingsWay’s leadership was considering a church plant to Roanoke. Through seeming confirmations from lots of sources, it became clear to everyone involved that SW, one of the KingsWay pastors, seemed to be the man called to lead this church plant. While SW had a heart for that church (as they say), he himself did not feel a calling to be its pastor. However, because of the “distrust your heart” culture that is fundamental to KingsWay (and all of SGM, although they didn’t say that), he believed for quite a while that he was mistaken about his own feelings, and that he really was called but struggled with unbelief. The other pastors first suggested to him that he was dealing with unbelief on a pastors retreat. To make a long story short SW went to Roanoke without having peace about it in his heart, because everyone around him including his fellow pastors were convinced that he was called to go. Not too long afterwards, however, it became clear to him that he simply could not continue pastoring that church. The aggressive deep-digging in his own heart for a sin that wasn’t there took a very damaging toll on him, and he still didn’t feel like he should be there at all, so he stepped down from the leadership in Roanoke and returned to Richmond with his family. Before they resumed attending KingsWay, however, Gene called a “family meeting” to give the congregation the Official Story on what had happened. He said that SW had been removed from leadership in Roanoke because of major unresolved and unrepentant pride, selfishness and unbelief. Additionally, he had been defrocked as a KingsWay pastor over these same “unrepentant sins”. The congregation was largely turned against SW in a very damaging way. Furthermore, the true story of what had happened was kept a secret. Nobody knew SW’s side of the story except for himself, his wife, some (but not all) of his children, Gene, and one friend that SW had told against Gene’s wishes. Not even the rest of the KingsWay pastors knew SW’s side of the story.
For nine years, SW and his family were treated very poorly by many of the members of KingsWay, due to what Gene had said about him at that family meeting. SW described the treatment he, his wife and daughter received from KW members as “cruelty.” SW and the one friend he’d taken into confidence repeatedly requested truth, openness and a fair hearing from Gene, but Gene did not do anything or seek out SW in any way. He did continue to forbid SW from telling anyone what had happened.
At the meeting at KingsWay the other night, Gene acknowledged that all of the above had taken place and confessed his own sin in the matter. He said that in the past year he’d become reconciled with SW and realized the levels to which he’d hurt SW and his family, and been wrong about God’s call on his life. There was no mention of how the reconciliation had taken place or why this meeting was being called.
Gene and the other pastors were conspicuously silent about what had happened to end this nine-year gag order on SW.
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Below is a comment that I posted on Survivors. This happened a while back when Gene was a regional overseer.
Speaking of Gene Emerson, don’t forget his involvement as an overseer of the SGM Chesapeake Church.
It has been a little while but as I remember it, here was a case where the leaders of SGM Chesapeake were threatening to church discipline a woman in their church who was being abused by her husband. Fortunately 3 couples came to this woman’s defense. I belive her situation on this blog was called “Esther’s Story.”
Gene Emerson use I believe “enemy of the church” to describe these 3 couples etc.
Just another sad example of Gene misusing his power the wrong way.
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Steve240 wrote:
This is one of the many times when two or more threads on TWW converge. The ones about Karen Hinkley and The Village sound a lot like this situation. The SGM/9Marks/Acts29 shepherding cult beliefs are ingrained in way too many churches today. Why people are so blind to this I do not know and cannot understand. And I guess this also brings in the long thread on Female Subordinationism, too, since the voice of women is totally discounted. More than half the church is silenced; it is no wonder things are off the rails.
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Gram3 wrote:
Rails? There are rails?
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Truth wrote:
ROFL.
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Gram3 wrote:
This.
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@ Max:
“Both pulpit and pew can be found playing with the things of the world throughout the week.”
++++++++++++++++++++
i’m curious what the things are.
I think you have the best of intentions. I feel that how your comment is worded in a propaganda-type way (power Christian words that immediately invoke concern, fear, judgement, that would rally people against someone(s) or something without really giving them the opportunity to understand the situation)
i think it would be best for your audience (& for the sake of those whom you are speaking about) if you spoke plainly, and not resort to these words which stir people up without elucidating much of anything.
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Gram3 wrote:
“A Lie, repeated often enough, becomes The Truth.”
— Reichsminister Josef Goebbels
And a fish doesn’t know it’s wet.
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elastigirl wrote:
Hmmmm…I didn’t see that in Max’s post to Dr. F. Max was referring to Scripture verses – the “things of this world” that unbelievers partake in and are focused on that Christians are not to be focused on. He was referring to the hypocrisy in the church, in lives’ of the church’s leaders, and in the lives of people who profess Christ on Sundays but are focused on worldly things the other six days of the week.
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@ Velour:
I hope I didn’t misunderstand. i’m wondering if the ‘things of this world’ fall in the category of ‘inappropriate’. I can think of many things which would be inappropriate to one Christian, and yet be a non-issue to another Christian who perhaps lives in a very different locale.
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elastigirl wrote:
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Truth wrote:
There are a few third rails, and I think I’ve touched them all. But lived to tell about it. Zombiegram.
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elastigirl wrote:
Hi elastigirl. Sorry about the religious speak. Yes, I was referring to inappropriate sinful things that attempt to draw believers from their Christian walk … to be in the world, but not of it as it says in Scripture.
The “things of the world” which draw us into sin are categorized in 1 John 2:16: “For everything in the world–the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life–comes not from the Father but from the world.”
Galatians 5 contrasts the “acts of the flesh” with “the fruit of the Spirit.” In that passage, we are called not to use our freedom in Christ to indulge the flesh. This is a lifelong pursuit of holiness and Christlikeness as the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin, prompts us to repent, pick us up and helps move us forward in that pursuit.
Sin has no geographic boundaries. Sin is always an issue to God. Repentance restores our relationship with Him, bringing peace and joy and a new energy to our walk with the Lord.
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Max wrote:
We need to all have a correct Biblical view of sin. Churches like KingsWay, lead people into error when it comes to sin. A leader will say something along the lines of “I’m the worst sinner here.” And we would think in our hearts, “no…he doesn’t know what I struggle with. Isn’t he so humble.” Matthew Williams, when referring to Gene Emerson’s being arrested, tried AND convicted of Soliciting a Prostitute, said ” We have all done worse.” Any reasonable person would say, “No. We haven’t done worse.” But the brainwashed KingsWay member just says, ” You’re right. My struggle with _______ is worse.”
The difference is that, yes, we struggle with sin, but for a pastor, the sin is greater. Why? Because he has a responsibility to nip sin in the bud. By whatever means possible. Whatever it takes. Because of his position and what God has entrusted to him, souls are on the line. Any pastor that takes his position seriously would call on close friends to help him keep a sinful struggle from becoming a soul searing habit. This did not happen in this case and a struggle turned into a habit that culminated in an embarrassment to him and the church and to Christians all around. The worst thing is that he let it get to that point and that he hid it.
One last thing to note. I have said it before. Gene decided to resign. He was not asked to resign. He decided to resign because the publicity surrounding his conviction would be a distraction to the church. He DID NOT resign because he was caught in a sin TWO MONTHS prior. He DID NOT resign because he was convicted of a sex crime ONE MONTH prior. He had every intention of just riding it out by way of a paid sabbatical and just going on like nothing had happened. That, my friends, is what makes this particular episode so wrong.
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Any sin, even the smallest sin separates the offender from God forever. All have sinned and all need Jesus Christ as their Savior. Everyone needs the full measure of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross for the atonement of their sin alone. Remember that there but for the grace of God go any of us. Any sin one man is capable of all are capable of except by God’s grace. All men flee from God, all men deserve the full wrath of God. If you are saved by Christ, remember that it is completely by grace and not from your own accord. Please be slow to condemn others who slip into sin, as we all do, even everyday…so that you may avoid temptation yourselves by God’s saving grace alone.
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“Gene acknowledged that he was being phased out for the time being …”
Just as Mark Driscoll was phased out for the time being, and countless other “pastors” that returned to ministry. In both the case of Emerson and Driscoll, the leadership teams at their respective churches fell short of disqualifying them from ministry even after sundry shortcomings over a period of years. So the door has been opened for both to reinvent themselves and return to a church near you.
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What is apparent to me is the sense of entitlement that these people have.I will give you one incident _we were invited to a birthday party that was thrown together at the last minute for sgm “friends” who have moved out of the area to another sgm church. Have not seen these people in 15 years but know they visit other people in the area.(could if be because we left sgm years ago l.o.l)We did see their daughter once when she crashed our daughters wedding in the last year(thank God someone could not come at the last minute and their was food)We did not get the original invite until one day before and did not see it on our Facebook till the day after when I found a note at my door saying they missed us and they we just dropping by to visit old friends while they were in.we sent a message back saying we were uncomfortable with drop ins as we were practicing intentality in our relationship. They messaged back that they were just trying to connect since our daughter re_ connected.First of all their was no mention of lets get together in the future.And most important they wanted what they wanted which was immediate satisfaction without putting time of effort into a relationship.also our daughters did not re_connect, she barged in came and got what she wanted(free entertainment) and my daughter has not see her since.The reality of the whole thing is the husband needed quest to fill out the party and because we have become wealthy in the last 15 years a nice birthday gift.( as evidenced by the nice wedding as gave our daughter)I have ran into these sgm “friends alot ” in the last year and they always are prying into my life(I walk with a pronounced limp now)almost to the point of me telling them off.They all want what they want,and when the want it.Whether it is info ,gifts or in this case a quikie that destroys the fabric of society and Christianity.
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Eagle wrote:
A church discipline conference? And I thought the ‘Act Like Men’ conference was a silly idea…
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Daniel Morrill wrote:
Fascinating comment. You do know about Gene Emerson’s condemnation of other’s sin? But, he is a pastor after all. Are you familiar with the history of SGM when it comes to sin? If not, you need to do some reading. If so, then I, in the most gospel way possible, *facepalm.*
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@ Mary k:
That crowd sure loves the people who can pay for the perks, don’t they? Glad you are out!
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Hi Ladies, welcome to my comment that I’ve typed from home, at my desk, surrounded by the smiling faces of all my children and grandchildren, who remind me daily of my success in following God’s plan by staying true to His Divine Order. My home is my sphere of influence, and provides me with the material I’ve tried to use to create a career for myself outside the home, which has fallen kind of flat lately to be honest.
Anyway, thank you for reading this comment and remember, I don’t do anything for free, so after reading this please shop my page on Amazon and order one of my books. Then go to my blog and purchase some reclaimed wood with nifty quotes painted on, and I’ll send you a calendar if I feel like it, k?
OK, now that you’ve agreed to send me money, let me say this:
I have known Gene & Liz Emerson for decades, and let me tell you – I’m not surprised this has happened. Last time I saw them together, I couldn’t help but notice Liz had let herself go and appeared as though she’d aged. In fact, she didn’t have anything on that communicated “Open For Biz”, so it doesn’t surprise Gene went looking for someone who was.
To quote my dear friend Owen Strachan, “To be a woman is to support, to nurture, and to strengthen men in order that they would flourish and fulfill their God-given role as leaders.” Naturally, there was something Liz was doing wrong. Adam would never have eaten the fruit, ladies, if his wife Eve hadn’t offered it to him. If Liz had been keeping her flowers fresh and her hedges trimmed, I’m sure Gene would never have taken a walk on the wild side.
Ever since I was forced to leave the helm of the SGM Concordia Mothership, it’s no wonder the men are losing it without my books (let’s not forget BOOKS), seminars, workshops, conferences, and of course my perfect personification of the complementarian lifestyle that I depict on my blog (along with my daughters but who cares about them) to guide their wives. I just know if they purchased one of my maps (hint: Book), they’d make it to safe harbor just like the Iraq and the South Africa did, such as.
But don’t let this happen to you, ladies! Go buy one of my gospel-centered, gospel-driven, gospel-licious books that teaches you the one-and-only path for your life, and will ensure your man ends up on top and on top of you only!
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Daniel Morrill wrote:
No, we are not all capable of soliciting prostitutes any more than we are all capable of molesting children. But, I wonder if people who say such things actually ARE capable of doing just that. That’s projection.
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@ Daniel Morrill:
If I am on a jury, should I be slow to condemn a murderer because I know that, except for the grace of God, I could be a murderer? You see, what you say is true theologically, but we do not live in an abstract theological world. Your words are pious, but could be used to perpetrate or perpetuate great evil. Please think through what you are saying.
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Gene Emerson’s claim that he is innocent is a lie. That should not surprise anyone. I hope to post this weekend. Please remember Jenny in your prayers. Thanks!
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@ Gram3:
That kind of thinking is why my former cult can justify monitoring every member’s internet usage via Covenant Eyes, and passcode protecting adult member’s iPhones so that the browsers are unavailable. Because everyone is capable of viewing inappropriate content online.
For a church that worships by speaking in tongues and running the aisles we certainly didn’t have enough of the Spirit to keep ourselves in check, did we?
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@ BeenThereDoneThat: Maybe the Holy Spirit has been put under church discipline for refusing to submit to their authority. In Gospel Glitterati world, he is notably absent from much mention, and his power and authority is denied for all practical purposes.
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Daniel Morrill wrote:
God gives people free will. They can choose to refrain from sin. The Bible mentions that people have self-control. You don’t have to give in to sin.
I don’t necessarily see where God’s grace comes in to that.
Shouldn’t people take more personal responsibility for their shortcomings?
Isn’t it kind of dangerous to suggest that people are helpless, and it’s inevitable they are going to fall into any and all kinds of sin, even adultery?
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@ Daniel Morrill:
I have heard people walk by a disabled person and say, ‘there but the grace of God, go I”. I find it an insidious phrase but it is really blaming God for our bad behavior choices.
There are plenty of people for whom it does not enter their thoughts to hire a prostitute or molest kids. There are people who might have a thought but take it captive and never act upon it. You are claiming they are the same as the people who actually DO evil and harm others. Very SGM thinking.
Your thinking on sin seems “determined” as in implying a person cannot help it and all sins are the same. If that were true the sins of the OT would have had the exact same punishments and requirements.
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@ Mary k
Mary, this reminds me of the seeker mega crowd. The goal was to have as many high end showers and excuses to get presents as possible. Engaged couples of members might have up to 10 showers before a wedding with folks they barely know from church invited and expected to bring presents from the registry of high end stores. It was a racket. The weddings often cost as much as a down payment on a nice house or a new car. Being seen at the parties and wedding of the circles was the fashion.
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@ BeenThereDoneThat:
WEll, I guess when all sins are the same, molesting children does not look so bad? Is that the goal?
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@ Lydia:
It’s the logical outgrowth of that kind of thinking. Why flagellate yourself over a little white lie when you can sin *really big,* and your sin is no worse than any one else’s.
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@ BeenThereDoneThat:
It just grates me that decent hard working salt of the earth types get lumped in with arrogant pastor child molesters (and those who protect them) who live off the donations of people and expect to be “obeyed”. I am thinking it is more like: “I never knew you” than, gee. I taught that all sins are the same, even millstones, so you get a pass.
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Daniel Morrill wrote:
We are talking about a church leader who is *held* to a higher standard according to the Bible. We are talking about church leaders who didn’t tell church members the absolute candid truth about this leader’s sin, that is disqualifies him from serving, and they used code language and lies. Let’s get real: They didn’t do what the Bible says to do! Confront a leader like that before all!
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BeenThereDoneThat wrote:
Daniel, do some more reading. The Bible clearly states that this kind of sin disqualifies someone from ministry. He is to be confronted before all. He wasn’t and his church leaders didn’t candidly discuss all of that.
Been There makes an excellent point.
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Carolyn Mahommy wrote:
FakeCarolyn Dearest,
I would LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to buy some of your “Gospel-centered products”. Unfortunately, I am all tapped out. I am making a large horde of “Hotel California”/Gulag t-shirts, mugs, Gulag NeoCal chocolate handicuffs (you know the bitter and the sweet), chocolate stockades, and other NeoCal/Gulag trinkets to sell at the upcoming SBC *Church [Witch Trials/Toss Out The Constitution And The Holy Spirit And The Priesthood of All Believers] “Discipline” Conference.
I will be selling tacky knock-offs of The Various NeoCal “Popes”, you know bobbleheads, (Mark Dever, your Master CJ Mahaney, the NeoCal *Cardinals* such as Jonathan Leeman at 9Marx, Matt Chandler of The Village Church/Acts 29, narcissistic zero posters and bumper stickers, kindling to burn people at the stake (I will also have the pretzel version dipped in chocolate) and lots of other oppressive things that NeoCals will *eat up*!!
I am coming up with a new line of Shehad (that’s the pronoun “She” + “had”, sounds like Jihad) products for the NeoCal’s War on Women. I am thinking full black veils at this point since according to the NeoCals we don’t have freedom in Christ but NeoCal is really akin to radical Islam.
Could you send me some of your products to *test* out? You’ll get a tax write-off for your *love offering*.
Signed,
Velour, Internet Sister in Christ to “Satin” (sic), daughter of “Stan” (sic),
Product Development
Shehad
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js wrote:
It’s not your blog. If the blog owners want to only blog on the YRR trend, that’s their prerogative. But they do discuss other trends at times.
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Daisy wrote:
YRR is the BIGGEST train wreck going on. That’s why it’s getting so much coverage, and rightly so!
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@ Carolyn Mahommy:
Carolyn Baloney,
Are you your counter tops per your requirements? Can you post pictures?
Your waiting public would like some “Gospel Centered Answers” 😛
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Eagle wrote:
I meant to say Carolyn Mahommy…darn autocorrect!
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Daniel Morrill wrote:
I wonder how you would have voted if you were on the jury weighing the fate of Jeffrey Dahmer in Milwaukee. There for the grace of God go I? So you are capable of cannibalism, and necrophilia? I mean its an honest question….
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BeenThereDoneThat wrote:
Remember what Jerad Mellinger said at CFC in Pennsylvania? Pornography is healthier than blogs critical of SGM. LOL!!! Who says crap like that?
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js wrote:
Look under the creationism entry in the topics menu. TWW has invested considerable editorial time dealing with the completely non scientific claims found under the heading of YEC. There are about 50 blog posts here.
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I posted a lengthy comment on sgmsurvivors.com, so I won’t repeat the whole thing here. But here’s a recap of my theory in a nutshell, emphasis on ‘theory’, as evidence may surface to the contrary:
It’s possible that nobody other than the defendant knew about the arrest/ conviction until late July or early August. Gene may have kept it to himself, thinking the big-guns defense attorney would produce an acquittal, and then he could minimize the whole situation and laugh it off as a silly mistake. Staff had no clue about the arrest/conviction until after the mission trip was over and the sabbatical was announced, to their embarrassment. (If this is the case, they should have said so.)
Clueless pastors and people were given an excuse for the conviction (some kind of mixed up appointment maybe, possibly whatever the attorney used in court) without an explanation of the weight of the evidence.
Possibly, the defendant is hoping to fight the legal system in some way to stave off the horrific embarrassment his family has suffered. Attorney may have advised church on the strange language in the announcement to point to church’s support if some kind of redress of the court goes forward.
The very earnest, young, Matthew tried to do the right thing by showing kindness to Gene rather than continue in the horrid way the church had treated other people in the past, but is being criticized for giving Gene a pass due to his position.
The church called the end of Gene’s employment a resignation, though surely they might have given him the opportunity to resign, again to save face, before terminating him themselves.
And where is SGM in all this? Far, far away, in their new Kentucky home, wishing to distance themselves from one of their most loyal company men; one who said, when asked point-blank, that Kingsway would “never leave SGM.”
The shoes keep dropping.
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There has been a flurry of activity at SGM Survivors. You can read the police report up there. Wow! Is all I can say!
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Ben–
Your account is more detailed than what I saw in the printed police report that was posted on Survivors. What did you see or read?
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@ Truth:
Likewise I am curious also. Truth what is your take on Matthew? Do you think he was duped or part of the cover up?
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Ben wrote:
I thought for him to have been convicted that he had to have been videotaped by police in the act of soliciting prostitution.
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Nickname wrote:
The Bible says that a church leader caught in this kind of sin is to be confronted before everyone. How convenient that they will rake the church members over the coals but won’t hold a leader accountable.
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@ Truth:
Just noticed your comment at SGM Survivors about not trusting Matthew. Can you expand and illustrate? Why not trust Matthew? Company man? Has he been deceitful in the past? etc..
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Regarding Matthew Williams…
He bought into Gene’s story about it all being a big mistake, which, at best, shows he is immature and gullible. I, personally, don’t trust him and have actually had him lie to me on at least one occasion.
He is not following biblical teaching on church discipline.
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Ben wrote:
You mean “Sean,” right? Because that was the fake name Emerson was using to organize his little illicit rendezvous.
“Sean” was probably another way he tried to conceal the matter. Too bad about that whole thing with the cops busting him and asking for his real name and ID.
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Oh, the sin is sin is sin thing….yes — Sin (big S) — every sin — separates us from God. But some sins (little s) are also crimes, and the earthly consequences are more dire in the here and now, as, absent God’s mercy and grace, we reap what we sow. All that ‘worst sinner I know’ and ‘we’ve all done worse’ talk normalized and minimized Sin and sins, though the intent may have been to make people realize the serious problem of Sin. Big S. We’ve been through this sin explanation several times over the past years here, on survivors and Refuge, so I don’t want to get into it again — but the new Kingsway people who may be reading for the first time may have started to realize that their theology of ‘worst sinner I know’ has been seriously skewed. The Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth, so hang in there — you are loved and welcome here.
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Ben wrote:
Ben — your post doesn’t say specifically that you have seen this video, so I’d like to ask, just to be sure — have you seen this video with your own eyes? Thanks. It should be shown to the congregation who sent him off on sabbatical and to the pastor who solicited extra funds for him. And I don’t mean that in a snarky way. They need to know the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I don’t know if Matthew reads here, but I hope some of you who know him well will tell him he’s got some ‘splainin’ to do immediately, to protect and start helping to heal the people whose blind support has now hurt them to the core.
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Nickname wrote:
The video is part of criminal evidence in the state’s case used to convict him. It doesn’t mean it’s readily available to the public.
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Velour wrote:
Yes, but Ben points to the FOIA and a trip to the courthouse as a way to get information, though he doesn’t specify the video. I just want to be sure he has actually seen it, or a transcript of it.
The police report is not an actual transcript of the conversations, etc, but a re-telling of it. I don’t doubt it’s veracity, but it is not as detailed as a transcript of an audio or videotape would be. Since Ben described the video, but didn’t come out and say he actually saw it with his own eyes, I’d like to clarify if he saw it, or if he is re-telling what someone else saw and told him. Thank you.
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Nickname wrote:
It is possible to look at the court records down at the courthouse which should give details of the trial and evidence submitted. Perhaps the files gave these details of the video? Still I would want some type of verification that what Ben is claiming.
Just my opinion.
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@ Ben:
Could you tell me how you know some of these details? Here is a link to the publicly released reports by the police. Much of what you say is rooted in some things indicated on the reports. However, things like your reference to an anal act do not appear there.
Could you please reference your information? If not, I may need to remove some of your comment due to the lack of facts.
Now, if you were just trying to give a hours, fictional acct of what may have happened surrounding the event, that is permissible is you say you are doing a parody.
I have to be careful about information as you can well imagine. I am going to put your comment into a temporary hold until I hear from you. Thank you.
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One comment moved temporarily to hold, pending further info.
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As a member of KW, thank you. This is the most effective and poignant statement I’ve read (and I’ve been reading for hours). @ Todd Wilhelm:
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@ Slim:
As a member of KingsWay, what were you told? Have you seen the police report that was posted on sgmsurvivors? Do you feel betrayed by the church or only by Gene? Do you see an underlying problem or just an isolated incident? Are people leaving the church over this? In light of the police report how do you feel about Matthew’s statement “we have all done worse.”
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Slim wrote:
I hope that members such as yourself call for leadership to tell the truth about what they knew and when. Also they shouldn’t be giving Gene the slack that they are doing.
If nothing else if members vote with their giving then that will be one thing that gets the attention of Kingsway Leadership.
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Just posted “Gene Emerson, Former Regional Leader for SGM, Arrested, Arraigned, Found Guilty, & Sentenced for Solicitation of Prostitution” at BrentDetwiler.com.
http://abrentdetwiler.squarespace.com/brentdetwilercom/gene-emerson-former-regional-leader-for-sgm-arrested-arraign.html
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My wife and I went to KingsWay a few years back and were hurt by the church just like a lot of you. Since then, we haven’t found a church home and my faith has been rocky and declining ever since. When my mom passed away a year ago, i felt alone and neglected. The Christians in my life were nowhere to be found. I was angry with God, still am, and even though people knew it, I was left on my own. I don’t feel many people reached out to my dad or my mom before she passed either. Just all around neglect and not just from KingsWay people. I can’t seem to find true Christians that live out what the bible says. After hearing about Gene I stumbled upon this website trying to find out more info. I must say I’m sick to read some of these comments. And not just about what has happened with Gene. It’s appalling to read the joy in their misery and hate towards SGM in some of these comments. Even though I’m no longer at KingsWay I’m still friends with some of Gene’s family. To read some of these hateful, hurtful comments just reiterates the reason my faith is waining. I don’t understand how people can leave a church or denomination claiming they aren’t Christian and then act unchristian while pointing out other people aren’t Christian. If this helps you cope, that’s fine, but do it privately, not for anyone to read. I understand wanting to get facts out, and I’m ok with that. I’m not arguing against that. People need to know the truth. But while trying to sort through what happened with Gene and figure out my thoughts and feelings on it, I find myself worse off having stumbled upon this site. Please be careful how you proceed with your objective.
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Jason S
I am sorry for the pain that you suufered in an SGM church. However, I thihnk that some of the judgementalism inherent in the SGM system can be found in your comment.
The first thing that you need to consider is that everyone who comments here is coming from a different place with different feelings. They express those in the written media. You cannot judge tone (joyful) unless the person actually says that they are *joyful.* There are other feelings that the individual might be expressing.
For example, there are those who had children abused in SGM or who were abused themselves and were told that they were the sinful ones. There is relief in knowing that Gene Emerson, who may have been condemning to others, was possibly a hypocrite and a liar. That relief helps them to go on, knowing that these guys were possibly jerks in their private lives and used their position to be jerks to others.
You then use the word *hate.* I think you spent far too much time absorbing the rhetoric of the SGM system. There are few people here who hate an individual. However, there are many, like myself, who hate a system that has hurt far too many people. SGM is reaping what they have sown. It is intersting to me that they have few cheerleaders these days.
Your request to suffering pain privatey is precisely what we are fighting against. It is important for those who have been injured to express what happened and how they feel today. Stuffing it inside is what SGM taught everyone to do. They chose the false image of a church that was supposed to be “the happiest place on earth.” Instead, they were promoting a lie. It was a system that appears to this outsider to be based on judgementalism and control. I am glad people are telling their stories and expressing their hard emotions. God knows how they feel and it is time for SGM followers to hear the hard truths of the pain that they supported.
Silence is wrong. Truth is hard, especially for the offender.
As for Gene’s family, they supported him during those years that peopel were being hurt. They were part of the system. Let me assure you of something. Had I been married to Gene and saw how people were being treated, I would not have sat by quietly. I would have risen to the defense of others. Everyone in the SGM system must take ownership for what happened.
And, I bet you know lots of things about Gene and how things went at that church. You sound just a bit too understanding of his “walk of th wild side.” You seem to have it all together-abused but doing OK. Friend of the Emerson’s even though KingsWay hurt you. It all sounds a bit too pat for me.
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Nickname wrote:
I work in law. The burden of proof had to be very high for the government (i.e. the state) to obtain a conviction.
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dee wrote:
That was my assessment of Jason S’s post too.
Jason, do you also have a problem with Jesus? Newsflash: Jesus was HARSH with religious leaders/hypocrites. “Brood of vipers”, “white-washed tombs” and on and on.
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@ Velour:
Obviously I shouldn’t have posted anything on this site, because people aren’t open to hearing it. I’m not friends with Gene, only a couple of his kids. And I feel for them, what they must be going through with this. How can I not interpret comments as hateful when you’re calling them thugs and wolves, and wanting to put their names on bowling pins? I’m not accepting of what gene has done. That’s part of why we left. I was there during the whole fiasco coming out about a pastor’s life being basically ruined because he wasn’t following Gods plan according to KingsWay.
I never said I was abused, but I definitely was hurt by their actions. I know there are other people hurt way worse than me. All I know is that I’m dying inside and need help. I’m almost in tears right now because of everything I’ve gone through, so you saying I’m doing ok is a crock. I hadn’t heard details of what happened with Gene. Only that there was “a lapse in judgment.” That didn’t make sense and I wanted to know more details. Coming upon this site has only made it worse. I didn’t say to keep this all private. For gods sake, let everyone know it. I want to know all the facts. But talking about starting a bowling team on Sunday’s with their names in the pins doesn’t help your argument. And be harsh with them, that’s fine. But what good does it do to gossip with others that feel the same way as you? Form your opinions of me, that’s fine. But all I know is that I’m struggling with my faith and not wanting to be a believer anymore and so far the only responses have been that my reply seems too pat and that I have a problem with Jesus.
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Jason S wrote:
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Jason
First of all, you and your lovely wife and, is it two, children, really need to find a good church. There are so many around. Two that might be close to you are Cornerstone Assembly of God or Clover Hill Assembly of God. Or perhaps Southside Church of the Nazarene might be a good one. Put the KingsWay thing behind you and move forward. All you are going see here is that SGM has very deep flaws and has delivered a lot of hurt to a lot of people way before 2010. But in the big picture, SGM is really just a dot on the Christian map. Most Christians I have met have never heard of it. I would venture to say it will be gone in 25 to 50 years.
In the mean time here is a good sermon to look at: http://cloverhillag.org/project/guaranteed
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I was speaking to the group as a whole, not just you velour. I don’t post on these things and posted incorrectly to just you when some of my comments were toward dee and the rest of the group.
It’s absurd that you think I’m telling people not to speak. I want the truth out. Some the comments on here I found inappropriate and was just voicing my opinion to be careful because others may stumble upon here. just my opinion so you have every right to disagree. Thought the group might like to know a struggling Christian was upset by comments on here. Instead of offering support, I was perceived as attacking the group and everything I said was analyzed. I truly hope everything wrong comes to light and those suffering on here can overcome what has happened. For me, comments I’ve read and responses to me have only encouraged my current path away from Christians and God. For someone who has identied himself with Christ for 20 some years now, it’s a lonely place to be.
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I am a gay man, I have since left all the SGM churches. I was a member of a Virginia SGM church and went to Richmond with the church plant in 1989. Wow I was asked to leave the church or be disciplined for having gay thoughts and desires back in the day. I would have never got myself involved with any illegal activity. I do know right from wrong.
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Velour wrote:
Velour — I wasn’t disagreeing with you — I knew from the beginning that a video was pretty much required to get a conviction in this case, and knew it existed. But Ben never said he had seen ‘the video’, and his description of it may have corroborated the police report, but also contained some additional information that was not in the police report that appeared contradictory. So I wanted him to verify that he had actually seen the video or that he had talked with someone who had see it.
I believe the video is valuable to the people who believe that Gene is innocent and the police lied. Everyone doesn’t need to see it, but some are not going to believe that there was a crime unless they see it or hear from someone they trust that it shows guilt. Personally, I don’t need to see it — wouldn’t want to see it. I know several people who’ve worked in the Chesterfield PD, including a former chief and several detectives. They are first-class professionals, and I know they met all the required criteria in this case.
Thanks.
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Jason S wrote:
Jason S wrote:
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Nickname wrote:
It didn’t help matters that the church leadership bungled this and didn’t tell the entire membership that this former pastor is Biblically disqualified from serving.
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@ Jason S:
Jason — welcome. The first time I found the blogs (the old Refuge one first, then sgmsurvivors.com, then this one, I had some of the same feelings you shared. I was completely confused for a while and thought that people sure were bitter. Up to that point, I figured that everything that had been done to me at KW was an anomaly; that they didn’t really mean to treat people that way, and that I needed to keep quiet in order to protect the cause of Christ. But the more I read, the more I realized — “HEY. I’m not crazy. Worse things have happened to many of these people, and this wasn’t an anomaly.”
I was still completely constrained by the wrong definitions of gossip and slander used by SBM. And I was still cautious after being told by GE and company not to tell anyone how I had been treated. It was a shock to my system to read things that were being expressed honestly, without any of the buzz words and over-flowered language we’d been taught.
It was hard to read the stories and come to terms with all this — that I had been in a corrupt organization. and I didn’t want to admit it.
So, I hope that you will continue to pray, continue to read, continue to think — and realize that some of us have developed a bit of ‘gallows humor’ when it comes to SGM. Sometimes, you have to laugh, for if you don’t you’ll cry.
I also love Liz, the kids, their spouses, and dear, dear Doris. I hope she never finds out. At church this morning, far away in a distant state, I thought of you at KW, and prayed with silent tears for all of you who are still there and experiencing this first-hand.
Please, let us know how you are doing. You are loved by the One who loves perfectly. The rest of us don’t always love so well, but we are trying. We’re a bunch of walking wounded, part of the church — known as the army that shoots its own wounded. I think you’ve been shot. You are one of us in many ways — I feel fairly certain that nobody here wants to add to your pain, but righteous anger is often present. Some unrighteous anger at times, too, maybe — but this and the other blogs have been wonderful vehicles for healing for many of us. I don’t know how I could’ve healed to this point without them.
There may be posts that seem inappropriate to you — but don’t worry about grading the responses. Some people aren’t talented writers. It’s difficult to convey tone when reading this. But people are angry. Truly angry. One fine ex-KW person – a friend of the pastor for three decades — posted a clip of “If I had a Rocket Launcher” on his FB page to show his feelings about the hypocrisy revealed by this latest crime.
People’s responses will be all over the map. Please don’t take it personally. Hang onto your faith, and He’ll bring you through, but if you’re like most of us, it will take time and the washing with the water of the Word.
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Jason,
It’s a crazy lot to process, for sure. First, I am sorry you have been hurt by the church and are angry at God. Some people never get past that. I hope you do! For recovery to happen, honesty and courage will be a big part of recovery, and it will messy and not necessarily linear. It can feel like two steps forward, one step back sometimes.
Second, that messy, honest, process — that’s part of what you’re reading here. Posters here are a diverse group: mixed gender, varying ages, different nationalities, not all SGM or any other denomination, not even all Christians. Most here are by turns shocked, grieved, angry, and disgusted at the behavior and attitudes of so-called religious leaders. Some are in various stages of healing from deep wounds including the worst sorts of abuse. That sometimes starts in some effort to try to manage other people’s responses so as to minimize their own cognitive dissonance. Sometimes it spills out in harshness and anger, sometimes in levity or mockery to relieve the pain. It’s okay for hurt and misused people to behave and speak in messy human ways sometimes. (Sometimes they even do things like enter into a new forum and tell everybody they’re doing it wrong! lol)
My point is that it’s okay if other people say what they feel, and it is okay if you do, too. Recovering from SGM involves (among many other things) acknowledging your feelings, not discounting what someone says because he didn’t say it nicely, and especially not trying to control other people. Let people be messy and human and wrong. It’s normal.
If you recently started reading here, you will read a lot worse than what you’ve seen so far. SGM at one time had two active ‘survivor’ blogs devoted to exposing it practices, as well as smaller blogs and many. many mentions here and elsewhere. There were some pretty horrific things that SGM leaders did that absolutely destroyed people. Emerson was involved in other stories floating around the blogosphere. Let people be how they want to be about it. They’ll process through it and probably sort it out. Much like I hope and pray you will, as well.
P.S. — It’s kind of you to feel bad for Gene Emerson’s kids. That’s good of you. I think you probably have a good, loyal heart. Too bad Emerson didn’t think more about them before he did what he did. Too bad he and they weren’t (and aren’t) there for you in your need. Realize it is not those reporting what Emerson did that are the problem. It’s not even those wishing him ill (if there are those here doing so, though I haven’t red that). No, the problem is what Emerson did. There’s no way around. And there are only two ways to deal with it. SGM’s way is to hush it up if possible, spin it in the nicest possible language if not, and attempt to totally control the conversation (who gets to speak, what is said, how it’s said, etc.) This here, it’s the anti-SGM way. It gets real, but it gets to the truth eventually!
Hang around. There are people near you, some you probably know, who can help you sort out what is true about your faith in Jesus.
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__
Everybody SGC nosedive,
Hold your breath, count to five,
Back-slap, booby-trap,
Cover it all up in bubble wrap?
Church shake, earthquake,
Find a way to make a break?
It’s going to blow, it’s going to break,
This is more than some can take?
hmmm…
—
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Jason
I would hope that most of us feel similar to how Samuel felt about Saul after God had rejected Saul from being king. Samuel mourned over Saul’s action and God even asked him how long he was going to mourn and to go and anoint David as the new king.
Gene’s actions are especially sad. It is even sadder how Gene denied what he did calling it just a lapse in judgment and how long Gene’s actions were hidden.
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__
“Welcome to the valley of the shadow of death…thank God grace reigns here.” -Tullian Tchividjian; 21 Jun 2015
—
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Patrick wrote:
Kudos Patrick! Sorry they were terrible to to you too. Glad you got out.
I am in California and had my own terrible church experience, The Shepherding Movement all over again in new language but same abuses.
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Hello Ladies,
I hope you’re all working hard to be in the favor of men through your diligent support of their headship and leadership, because the success of the Gospel™ rests squarely upon your shoulders.
I must confess that I didn’t foresee the eventual loss of my career, nor did I imagine the consequences of our running away from Gaithersburg. At the time I had a firm trust in our bank accounts, and in our lives as hot commodities. Naturally I expected that after we moved to the “City of Beautiful Churches” that I’d continue to travel, give speeches, and offer my books for sale at numerous conferences throughout the year like I had done before. Instead this place has become more like “The Fall City”.
You see, I had established a name for myself, something no other woman in SGM was allowed to do without my express approval. Although I experienced slight twinges of guilt from time to time when I realized I was instructing women to refrain from building an independent life like what I had done, I knew within myself that it just went with the territory of being an SGM Leader – we’re simply above the laws we tell others to keep.
Also, you won’t ever hear me admit to any of our deceptive practices because I know the ends justify the means. Our Gospel™, which is true, makes men #1 and women #2.
And, with this in mind, we’ve been expecting our son to marry a girl who wants nothing more than a life at home that revolves around her hub. Unfortunately, he’s shown troubling signs, such as a preference for independently-minded women, the type who wouldn’t allow us to define for her what she can and cannot do, and who wouldn’t be content spending the rest of her life at home. This, of course, has had me worried. It’s a departure from the Gospel™.
In fact, I am certain that this is why, on September 9th, he is going to be arraigned on charges here in Kentucky. I am absolutely positive this is due to his having been exposed to some worldly ideas that have infiltrated his mind. I just know if he’d been spending more time at home, where the atmosphere is kept purified and cleansed of the pernicious influences of feminism, this would never have happened. My husband is especially convinced there’s a woman to blame. What else could it be?
And if the Judge is a female, we’re all doomed:
http://kcoj.kycourts.net/CourtRecords/Search.aspx
Click on the “Search by Case” tab
County: OLDHAM
Case #: 15-T-03896
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If you look up the above case the defendant is “Charles J. Mahaney” which I am assuming is C.J. Mahaney. It isn’t Chad Mahaney as the above post leads us to believe.
The site doesn’t appear to give case details. Whatever it is that the case is about, it can be paid online so must be something more than a routine traffic ticket . Tood bad you can’t get the details.
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Actually appears to be Chad Mahaney who is CJ Mahanet jr. I didn’t know Chad was C.J. Jr.
http://kentucky.arrests.org/Arrests/Charles_Mahaney%20ii_23950295/?d=1
15-T-03896 COMMONWEALTH VS. MAHANEY, CHARLES J
(ARRAIGNMENT)
1 0000150 SPEEDING 15MPH OVER LIMIT 5BZ773401-1
2 0002070 REAR LICENSE NOT ILLUMINATED 5BZ773401-2
3 0021080 OP MV UNDER/INFLUENCE OF ALCOHOL/DRUGS, ETC. .08 1ST OFF 5BZ773412-1
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@ Never Again:
What angers me is the abuse, the waste, and the corruption. There are many people I’ve gotten to know who have been hurt by Sovereign Grace. I can’t believe how many families and friendships have been adversely affected. Its held up as the model and people like Mark Dever and John Piper have stood behind the system and defended it. That illustrates how ingrained the corruption is and how deep it goes. Some of this material has found its way into other churches, denominations, and even some para church ministries. Heck I won’t attend an Evangelical Free Church in the DC area due to how some of this crap has penetrated it. I want to write a post about this in the near future at my blog but I learned that Cru at George Mason University encourages its students to attend Sovereign Grace Fairfax. Where is the discernment and critical thinking skills?
But people are getting hurt and fried. Families have been destroyed and friendships ended. If you have a soul, a heart why wouldn’t you care? How can a person turn the other way and ignore this crap? I just don’t get it.
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@ Truth:
I appreciate your comments. People like velour and dee discourage me from wanting to keep seeking God. My comments meant to be helpful critiques were not received the way I intended. Apparently we’ve crossed paths before since you recognize my family. After KW we went to clover hill but timing was terrible. We had our first child and it was difficult to get involved. We eventually became discouraged there and stopped going. We then started attending commonwealth chapel but I was hurt by the pastor there. I’m tired of being hurt and don’t feel like investing time just to be hurt again.
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@ Nickname:
Thank you for the comments. I’m not sure if our paths crossed there or not. We left shortly before our first child was born, so that was about 4 or 5 years ago. We attended for maybe 2 or 3 years. The problem is, I wasn’t directly affected by KW. Too many things didn’t seem right there and we left not knowing the whole story. We’ve had multiple bad experiences at churches all over Richmond, before and after KW. Hearing all the things done at KW is just adding to my distaste of Christians. Why do I want to be like one of these horrible, disgusting hypocrites? We’ve encountered too many hurtful evil Christians that I don’t care anymore and don’t have the desire to seek God. And that’s what scares me.
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Jason S wrote:
I understand that feeling. SGM is not part of my life since I knew about Mahaney way, way back, and knew to stay away from anything to do with anything to with Maranatha or the other shepherding-type groups that sprang up. But if someone didn’t know that history and had not been involved in trying to de-program young people who were sucked into shepherding, SGM might have seemed like a good place. Especially with the love-bombing. The thought-policing and subtle social cueing come gradually and insidiously, and you don’t even realize you have been enculturated in a shame culture. It is not easy to see your way out of it unless there is someone who can walk you through it.
The other thing is the grief you have recently experienced. And “recently” can last a long time and can compound other losses you have experienced. I hope you can find a supportive group of people who look like the real, authentic Jesus and not the fake Jesus that SGM used to manipulate you. Some people are encouraged by strong language against wickedness done in the name of Jesus, and some people are put off by it. I hope that you can see through the words which you find off-putting to the desire that many of us have to see the church renewed and cleansed of its worldliness in whatever form that worldliness takes.
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@ Jason S:
Jason s, we should get some lunch or coffee soon! I’ll be in the car with the “hazzard lights on in the rain”
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Gene Emerson’s replacement minister (the hand-raised 30-year-old wunderkind) is now acknowledging that Mr. Emerson did indeed commit the crime he was convicted of.
http://www.kingsway.cc/an-update-on-genes-resignation
He still affords him FAR more grace and leniency that they give normal parishioners and FAR, FAR more than Emerson ever gave anyone.
And, of course, he assumes the wife will remain with her cheating husband. And that they are equipped to handle the requisite counseling.
Does anyone think they will finally get around to checking Emerson’s electronic footprint, calendar, bank account, use of church time and funds, etc.?
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Jason S wrote:
@Jason,
On Sunday at 3:21 p.m. I made a post to you. I’d appreciate it if you would read it and own up to your behavior.
Let’s go over this again: You repeatedly – and wrongly – accused me of writing about your former church. I was writing about my former authoritarian, abusive Neo Cal church which is located in California.
Dee is one of the nicest people around and she has been through her own bad church experiences (as has Deb). She and Deb did something constructive: This blog. It has helped people literally all over the world.
In the post I wrote to you, I also included a list of good books about spiritually abusive churches and I included two books to FREE, and well-known, books by Dr. Ronald Enroth.
I find your lack of empathy…strange. Let me see, I was ordered to be excommunicated and shunned at my former church for protecting my friends’ young son from the pastors/elders friend – a convicted sex offender on Megan’s List – they had given carte blanche to our church to without telling all parents, I lost all of my friendships, several hundred people were ordered to never speak to me again, my name was tarnished, and I lost everyone I love less than 1 year ago…and you focus on you, and your losses, that I am somehow harmed your Christian walk? Have you always been so SELF-CENTERED????
Think about other people besides yourself and OWN what you do!
P.S. I also watched a godly doctor get excommunicated/shunned (married to his wife for 45+ years, great marriage, great loving father to grown children) because he simply dissented with these authoritarian leaders. Good man. Such a shame what was done to him.
I watched another woman – a wife – be put through something like this because she didn’t want to go to that church anymore.
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Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ–
On Sunday, a local pastor gave a wonderful sermon that was so timely in light of all of this KingsWay mess.
Watch it here. http://cloverhillag.org/project/be-free-2/
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Jason S wrote:
@Jason,
I have LOST far more than you in the past year from a bad, abusive, authoritarian NeoCal church experience! I was ordered to be excommunicated/shunned by the pastors/elders for protecting my friends’ young son from the pastors/elders’ good friend, a convicted Megan’s List sex offender they had brought into our church without telling anyone. I found him on Megan’s List while doing research for a project for a prosecutor about another sex offender.
I LOST all of my relationships and friendships that I had invested in for more than 8-years. Hundreds of people were ordered to shun me and that I was *destined for Hell* (because the senior pastor and his yes-men said that their friend the sex offender was *harmless*). The sex offender’s supervising law enforcement agency – the Sheriff’s task force called that “all lies” and ditto for the senior pastor’s claims that his friend was “coming off Megan’s List”.
The alarmed Sheriff contacted the California Attorney General’s Office which runs my state’s Megan’s List. The Attorney General confirmed that my pastors/elders stories were *all lies*.
I didn’t get a single Christmas card and my mail box from anyone at my church and my mailbox used to be jammed with them. Ditto my birthday. I poured my heart, soul, and life into those lives at that church. I gave of my time and treasure.
And I would do it again to protect my friend’s little boy from this bad man whom I caught running his hands through my friend’s son’s hair. That family – thankfully and an answer to prayer – moved far away recently to be *near family and friends*. If they hadn’t come up with that excuse, they too would have been excommunicated and shunned for protecting their son.
I lost far more than you, Jason.
And you have temerity to come here and blame me for your hurts and the supposed hypocrisy of Christians. You know pal, I just gave up everything I had for a four year old boy. Name somebody else – who isn’t related by blood – who would do the same thing that I just did?
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WRIC tv news ran a story about Emerson yesterday. Still not a peep out of SGM Corporate Headquarters.
http://wric.com/2015/08/25/midlothian-pastor-pleads-guilty-to-soliciting-a-prostitute/
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@ Velour:
I will not argue with you or debate you. You misunderstood my comments and I was not comparing my losses to anyone on here. I’m truly sorry for your losses, but we cannot have dialogue when I’m feeling attacked by you, and you by me.
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Jason S wrote:
@Jason,
You have a lot of work to do.
Best wishes.
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@ Velour:
As do you, hence the reason both of us are on sites like these.
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Jason S wrote:
I have done mine, Jason. You haven’t done yours – and it shows.
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@ Velour:
I’m trying to avoid conflict. Why are you still antagonizing me?
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^
?
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What A Crock?
hmmm…
ABC News: ‘Midlothian Pastor Pleads Guilty To Soliciting A Prostitute.’
*
MIDLOTHIAN, Va. (WRIC) — A pastor from KingsWay Community Church, located on Sovereign Grace Drive in Midlothian, Virginia was arrested for soliciting a prostitute.
On May 29, Gene Emerson, the founding pastor of KingsWay (originally called Southside Church of Richmond), was arrested in Chesterfield County for soliciting a prostitute. He pled guilty to the misdemeanor on July 9.
According to the church’s web site, Emerson, who is married, recently resigned in response to his court conviction.
The church’s associate pastor, Matthew Williams, sent 8News the following in an email:
“We have no comment as a church beyond the current statement on our website.
However, I would add that our pastoral team did not learn of Mr. Emerson’s conviction until July 21, 3 days after he left for Bolivia. When we confronted him upon his return from Bolivia, he immediately tendered his resignation.”
The church’s website had the following statement:
“Every family goes through hard times and that’s certainly been the case for our church over the last few weeks. Two weeks ago, we made the difficult announcement that our senior pastor, Gene Emerson, resigned in response to a recent court conviction where he was found guilty of soliciting a prostitute. Last week, we were made aware of additional evidence from his case, confirming that his actions were consistent with the verdict of the court.
Because we love Gene as our brother in Christ, our local eldership has initiated a process of redemptive discipline with him. Our church family is committed to doing everything we can to help our brother walk a path of repentance so he can experience the healing and restoring power of the gospel. We also recognize that sin in anyone’s life is by definition blinding, and we expect it will take time for Gene to come to terms with what has happened in his life.
Our hearts are grieving for our friend. We know many of you are equally saddened by the situation. In the midst of our sadness, we want to remind you of two things.
First, there’s no sin or weakness in Gene’s life that we can’t relate to as fellow sinners who stand in daily need of the Lord’s mercy and forgiveness. Because of that, no matter what continues to come to light about his actions, we are not going to shame him, avoid him, or look down on him. We are going to continue love him because we are convinced that God continues to love him and calls us to do the same. He who has been forgiven much loves much. May the Lord help us to be merciful because we have received mercy.
Second, we are committed to continuing to pray for Gene and his wife Liz. The road to recovery from sexual sin is a long process and it’s easier to lose heart and give up than it is to trust God keep choosing the path of humble honesty. We don’t pray for Gene because it’s the only thing we can do. We pray for Gene because it’s the best thing we can do. As Paul says in Phil 1:6, “And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.” That’s a promise from God to every one of his redeemed children, including Gene.
We don’t exist as a church to convince the world that we’re perfect. We exist as a church to convince the world that Jesus is a mighty Savior. We are convinced that Jesus has not stopped building his church, which means we are going to continue making disciples of Christ through gospel-centered worship, community, and missions, even as we learn in a deeper way what it means to be “sorrowful, yet always rejoicing” (2 Cor 6:10).”
WRIC.com
© Copyright 2000 – 2014 Media General Communications Holdings, LLC. A Media General Company.
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reference:
http://wric.com/2015/08/25/midlothian-pastor-pleads-guilty-to-soliciting-a-prostitute/
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__
“WORLDWIND?”
You got the pig with the golden ring, we got the brass band,
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=szYGBnOf5Z0
hmmm…
Q. C.J. How long to the point of SGC no return?
__
Bonus: Kansas: “NO Return”
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iFWtsT5zRKo
—
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A good article on Emerson from the Chesterfield Observer.
http://www.chesterfieldobserver.com/
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judge not, lest you be judged by your own sins. the nails that pierced jesus were committed by mr. emerson. god loves adulterers and murderers. proof? king david.
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@ mr. bj kingway:
And guess what the consequences were for King David? Proof: You don’t get a pass on sin.
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mr. bj kingway wrote:
What in the heck does that even mean?
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@ dee:
spiritually speaking you do of course. anybody care to argue? but yes, the physical consequences remain. david’s life was spared but god didn’t make him step down from his position as king. absalom did.
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@ just a casual observer:
David’s life was spared, that is for sure. However, there were many consequences in his life. Many of the kings to follow him “did evil in the sight of the Lord.” His son, Absalom was rebellious. His father’s sin most likely affected the morals and values that he taught his children.
Let’s assume, for a minute, that you are Reformed in your perspective. If you follow today’s Neo Calvinist thinking, one could assume that God used Absalom to punish David.
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To the new commenter, calling people morons will get you booted. Make an intelligent statement or stay away.
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Wow. You guys have nothing better to do with your lives but look at the speck in someone else’s eye? Writing a hate blog about other people’s sins, makes you no better than the person you’re gossiping about
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@ Kourtney:
So, do you not care about the women who are caught up in prostitution? Do you know that the majority of these women have been trafficked and forced to take drugs, have abortions, etc. by their pimps?
Do you not care that a minister of Jesus, whose church was a member of a group of churches caught up in a number of child sex abuse allegations, decided to add to that pain by his actions?
And no, I do not exploit women and children for my sexual gratification. Such exploitation causes years of pain and suffering and adds to the next generation of pedophiles and sex trafficking crimes.
Ys, I am a sinner and I speak about some of those sins on this blog. However, some sins affect society and the lives of humans more than others. For example, the fact that I thought in my head that a certain person is a jackass as opposed to a dearly loved child of my Creator is a sin but it only affects me and the way I view and treat others.
However the man who uses a trafficked and abused women for his own gratification affects the lives of many, many victims throughout the years.
Let me give you a piece of advice. I assume that you want to tell me that i am doing something wrong. But, you never once mentioned the pain and suffering of the victim of this man’s actions. That, to me, is the real tragedy. Please read some books on human trafficking.
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dee wrote:
Kourtney,
Here is a blog article by a Christian blogger (who also happens to be a judge) named Tim Fall about human trafficking:
https://timfall.wordpress.com/2013/03/15/rape-drugs-roadside-stands-and-human-trafficking-there-are-no-innocent-bystanders-see-more-at-httpwww-jennyraearmstrong-com20120612rape-drugs-roadside-stands-and-human-trafficking/
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@Kourtney,
Here is another resource for you, a training video by Pastor Jimmy Hinton about child sexual abuse in the church. Jimmy turned in his own pastor/father for sexually abusing children in the Church of Christ church that they had both pastored in PA. (The church was founded about 100 years ago.) Jimmy’s father is now serving a life sentence in prison for sexually abusing some 23 children. Jimmy and his mom Clara Hinton (the Finding a Healing Place blog) and members of their family have become advocates for child sexual abuse victims and for training an prevention.
In case you didn’t know, most of those involved in the sex trades (including in prostitution) were sexually abused as children. There is a reason it’s a crime and that we should stop it.
Jimmy Hinton’s 2+ hour training video on child sexual abuse and its prevention:
https://vimeo.com/88247213
Clara Hinton’s blog:
http://www.findingahealingplace.com/
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Kourtney wrote:
There’s hypocritical judgement and then there’s this thing the Bible asks believers to do: discernment, per 1 Corinthians 5
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%205
Which concludes (and this is directed at a group of self professing Christians):
v 12. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.
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How are Christians supposed to exercise that passage if taking your comment to heart, that any and all judgement is always wrong, which is what you seem to be suggesting?
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Steve240 wrote:
Sadly I quasi-remember that bit of ugliness…I’m sure my fleeting young memory of it was tainted by SGM brainwashing and “spin” though…wish I knew the truth.
My family was well known and close to all of them until my family was driven out by Gene and his poison well before the large exodus in 2010. Wouldn’t take many details to figure out who my family is so for their protection I’m being overly vague, it’s not for my own benefit.
I must, in contrast to many posts here, place SOME bit of thanks to SGM for helping me open my eyes and beginning my OWN search for truth. In the years since I left (over a decade now) I’ve come a long way, as has my family since escaping as well. I knew the players in this story well, and am quite sad to see how Matthew has ended up; though frankly I’m not surprised given the brainwashing environment he was raised in.
Gene’s fall doesn’t surprise me either; I feel bad for his family that they went through this as a consequence….his bad choices to blame.