I'm a shepherd, not a sheep, and I've always prided myself on being a leader and not a follower. Dustin Diamond link
We live in a hurried world and constantly search for time savers. Today, TWW presents a time saver for pastoral search committees all over the world. We know how much time and effort goes into reading resumes of pastoral candidates. This is followed by phone conversations and visits to the candidate's current church. Then there is the candidate visit in which people quiz him in order to figure out if he is a good fit. The process can take months. Here is one way to save time in that exhaustive search if you have a candidate who is a recent graduate of SBTS.
This week, Al Mohler announced big changes in faculty retention at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, the flagship seminary of the SBC. Some might view the changes in a negative light. However, time saving experts should hail the changes. Al Mohler has clarified, front and center, the carefully honed belief structure of the seminary and the internalized gospel © playbook will be part and parcel of the graduates of this seminary.
In a post written for Southern News (a publication of SBTS so they should have gotten this right) Southern Seminary Trustees Update Faculty Hiring Policies, ‘Unify’ Faculty, we are told what is in the future of SBTS.
For the sake of brevity, I will focus on a few items. We urge you to read the full article.
- In order to continue to “attract and retain a first-class academic faculty,
- All actions of the board were unanimous.
- Under new employment policies, all elected faculty will serve under a “simple academic instructional contract” rather than a tenure-based contract.
- we have returned to making the election of faculty by the board of trustees the most important issue,
- (Tenure) no longer ensures academic quality, but actually is a major impediment to it.”
- Tenure is a “ticking fiscal time-bomb”
- “unify” the faculties of Boyce College, Southern Seminary’s undergraduate school, with the graduate faculties in the School of Theology and Billy Graham School of Missions, Evangelism and Ministry.
- Philip Gunn, speaker of the Mississippi House of Representatives, was elected as chairman of the board of trustees
- (Appointed to chair) Bruce A. Ware as T. Rupert and Lucille Coleman Professor of Christian Theology;
- (Promoted) Denny Burk to professor of biblical studies. additional three-year contracts were approved for Burk
- appointment of Owen Strachan, assistant professor of Christian theology and church history, as director of the Carl F.H. Henry Institute for Evangelical Engagement, a think tank studying the present and future of American evangelicalism.
Tenure
There is no question that tenured academic jobs are declining throughout the United States. This tracks with the declining dollars budgeted by states to their academic institutions as well as declining donations to private universities. However, we believe that this development at SBTS is fueled more by concerns for doctrinal purity than fiscal responsibility.
In the above article we learn that SBTS is not "suffering" financially at this point.
approved a $40.572 million budget for the 2014-2015 academic year, a 5.87 percent increase from the current year.
What to expect from a graduate of SBTS.
1. Students will be trained to regurgitate exacting cultural and doctrinal standards with little to no secondary latitude.
Faculty will need to toe the line of Al Mohler who has been in charge for two decades. If not, they will find themselves in the unemployment line. This means any professor who begins to nuance their position on issues such as gender roles, Calvinism, etc. will find themselves on the short end of a pink slip. Academic jobs are in short supply these days and few are willing to stand up for secondary issues if their salary is on the line.
Therefore, all congregations who are looking for pastors who adhere to rigid 5 point Calvinism (with an occasional 4 pointer), along with a belief in authoritarian leadership, look no further. You have found yourself a living, breathing reflection of the "unanimous" views of SBTS. President Mohler claims that you can be a 3 pointer and be a Calvinist but we put our money on a bet that young graduates will be far more likely to espouse all five "solas."
2. Expect a lukewarm, wishy washy response to issues like child sex abuse in your church from graduates of SBTS
TWW did an interesting post on Philip Gunn, the new chairman of the board of trustees at SBTS titled: Phillip Gunn, SBTS, Al Mohler: Legal Right=Moral Right? In this post you can read Al Mohler's statement on child sex abuse in the church. On the surface, it sounds right on.
However, it looks a bit different in practice. From that post:
On 12/11, our good friend, Tom Rich, FBC Jax Watchdog wrote Seminary Trustee, Lawyer, Tells Church Leaders to Not Speak to Police About Meetings They Had With Molester link.
As further evidence of the institutional problems within the Southern Baptist Convention when it comes to reporting child abusers, we look at the latest article by Bob Allen at the Associated Baptist Press in the John Langworthy case.
Attorney Philip Gunn, who is also a trustee of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville and a Republican state legislator, is advising the elders of Morris Heights Baptist Church to NOT discuss with police investigators details of their internal investigation into accused child molester John Langworthy (Langworthy served there as minister of music-ed note)
Yes, you heard right. Gunn is claiming some sort of "priest-penitent" privilege that binds the church leaders to secrecy regarding THEIR discussions with Langworthy.
What does his pastor at Morrison Heights Baptist church say about him?
Yes, that’s right. Gunn is a member, and leader, in the church which he thinks he is protecting.
"The Mississippi House of Representatives has elected a true Christian statesman to its highest position," Morrison Heights senior pastor Greg Belser said. "I know of no finer man in politics anywhere. Philip Gunn is a man of unquestioned character and a deep love for Christ and the church while balancing the enormous demands of family and community service. He is the real deal.
We would encourage our readers to look at the entire article. In it you will read that Philip Gunn allegedly contacted Amy Smith who was involved in outing Langworthy, along with Sherry Lefils, a former Dallas probation officer, allegedly asking what it would take to make this "go away. I am sure that Attorney Gunn believed that he was doing what was right in the eyes of the letter of the law but I wonder how Jesus would have handled things.
3. You might have a pastor who has been exquisitely trained in the doctrine of The Eternal Subordination of the Son. This means that said adherent believes that women will be subordinate to men in eternity.
This position is held by a number ofthe above appointees and those promoted such as Bruce Ware, Denny Burk, and Owen Strachan (who is also the head of the Council of Biblical Manhood and Womanhood and Bruce Ware's son-in-law.) Wade Burleson has an excellent post on this subject.
4. You might have a pastor who believes that patriarchy is a better term than complementarianism.
Russell Moore is a major SBTS insider. According to Wikipedia:
President of the Southern Baptist Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission (Baptist Press). He previously served at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, the flagship seminary of the Southern Baptist Convention, as Dean of the School of Theology, Senior Vice President for Academic Administration, and as Professor of Christian Theology and Ethics.
Russell Moore said
Gender identity and complementarianism… I hate ….the word 'complementarian', I prefer the word 'patriarchy'…
Because complementarianism doesn't say much more than the fact that you have different roles. Everyone agrees that we have different roles, it just a question of on what basis you have different roles? So an egalitarian would say, "Yeah, I'm a complementarian too, it's on the basis of gifts." I think we need to say instead, "No you have headship that's the key issue. It's patriarchy, it's a headship that reflects the headship, the fatherhood of God, and this is what it looks like, you then have to define what headship looks like…"
5. You might have a pastor who will need to go to lots and lots of conferences as well as jockeying to speak at lots and lots of conferences. This may involve him writing books as well.
TWW has written a number of posts on the never ending stream of conferences geared to the crowd that would be characterized by the SBTS culture. T4G 2014 just ended. In one church, a pastor showed off his T4G bracelet, quite proudly. For him, and many others, attending such conferences means they have arrived. And the conferences never end. Here is a new one on homosexuality, marriage and the church being plugged by Russell Moore.
6. You might have a pastor that is a culture warrior as modeled by Al Mohler himself.
Christianity Today did a cover story on Al Mohler and Kevin DeYoung wrote an angry rebuttal which kind of makes my point..
I could talk about how the two sides that jockeyed for power in the SBC get termed “conservatives” and “moderates.” Mohler’s take on things is “pugnacious;” he’s an “inerrantist,” “doggedly fundamentalist,” and a “culture warrior.” Those opposite Mohler come across more reasoned, more balanced. The only time “liberal” appears is to describe the old Southern faculty that ran afoul of “fire-breathing trustees.”
I could go on and on. We have the never ending cycle of never read books being written by all of the wannabes and pushed by other wannabes.There are other pastors who claim that their real job is to preach the sermon and not make hospital visits and perform marriages.
So, if you want a hard core Calvinist who is a culture warrior, who will only allow men in leadership, has a high view of the authority of the pastor and a diminished view on the priesthood of the believer, while having s a subdued view of child sex abuse, look not further than an SBTS grads.
On the other hand, if you want someone different and an SBTS grad applies, ask them to discuss the following:
Describe, in detail, where you disagree with the cultural and doctrinal teachings/leanings of SBTS and Al Mohler.
Do not give them any clues to what you are referring. Keep a straight face. The answers should be give you lots to discuss at the next search committee meeting.
Lydia's Corner: Ezekiel 14:12-16:41 Hebrews 7:18-28 Psalm 106:1-12 Proverbs 27:4-6
Am I first? I hope I’m first. First! 🙂
You might want to add to your list: no unmarried persons need apply.
Mohler does not believe single people (men) should be allowed to be preachers.
On Bias Against Single Pastors
This is excellent! From the post:
This is heartbreaking. My grandfather was an egalitarian SBC pastor for over fifty years. He used to point out the Greek words that had been slanted in some translations towards keeping women from deacon ministries. I have that same Greek New Testament on my top shelf. Today, he wouldn't have a chance.
I believe the disavowal of tenure will lead to the use of more adjunct professors, as has been seen in secular and other private institutions. (In fact, it’s a huge problem of so many adjuncts, being paid very poorly to teach and with no benefits.) This may also lead to “interesting” male Calvinist “authorities” lending their gravitas to SBTS on a part-time basis. Oh yeah, and probably being the “teaching pastor” of some church during the week. *cough* CJ *cough*
The Calvinista cancer has now become systemic throughout the SBC and its affiliated institutions, and the mini-Mohlers being produced by SBTS are the cancer cells spreading this insidious disease even further. Or maybe they're more like rats spreading the Calvinista Plague.
Forgive me for asking, but isn’t number 3 considered heretical? Or was declared heretical by the Church fathers at some point in ancient history? In other words, the 3rd point is considered a recent theological innovation?
SBTS – “Never has there been a more wretched hive of scum and villainy”
Part time faculty is the wave of the future for many colleges. Sadly, it will bring down the level of people who become college professors.
SBTS is going to receive sub-par applicants to teach at their seminary. They will be the cheapest, those willing to ” tow the company line,” not those who who will be the best teachers, and I wonder what type of research will be done by these professors? You can rest assure some of their materials ( probably only published by SBTS or some quarterly with ties to Southern ) will be questionable biblically, doctrinally, and academically….
SBTS – the Mos Eisley of U.S. Protestantism.
Another question I have is the reaction of Arminian Baptists to the creeping Neo Calvinism? They have to be concerned about this creeping neo Calvinism. This isn’t the usual classical Calvinism that has existed in the SBC from the dawn of its creation.
I’m losing my gift!! :’-(
JeffT wrote:
What a great quote! I know a number of institutions to which this would apply,
mirele fka Southwestern Discomfort wrote:
Great insight! I’ll send you chocolate if you send my your address!
Hey! Fifteenth!
@ Mark:
You need to read about this. It is amazing how they can prove to their satisfaction that this is not the same heresy that caused the Arius dust up. They needed something to “prove” that women are subordinate forever and nothing does it better than proving that Jesus was subordinate.
Now, i have hear the rumblings of those who are saying that marriage will be continuing tin heaven because we “misunderstood” Jesus. People can take the Bible and do just doubt anything they darn well please. My husband, BTW, claims that we would see an increase in death bed divorces if this new little “teaching” finds a foothold!
Make no mistake about this. This is a gender biased theology which is hell bent in keeping women in a subordinate place. Have fun reading. It is fascinating. CBMW is the designated hitter on this subject.
http://cbmw.org/uncategorized/eternal-subordination-of-the-son-the-basics-part-i/
@ Nick Bulbeck:
Er – I should probably read the post first, seeing as I may have just made a flippant comment on a really dark subject. But we’re just in from the Highlands having taken both the weans on their first classic Scottish ridge scramble. Foties to follow.
Mark wrote:
Wade Burleson, a friend of TWW, calls it “semi-Arianism.”
http://www.wadeburleson.org/2008/09/growing-semi-arianism-in-sbc-and.html
I think it’s flat-out Arianism, virtually indistinguishable from the original, except that I don’t think Arius used his belief to argue for female inferiority.
@ Eagle:
Eagle, it’s called Cessationism.
I’m a bit confused – if there are 5 of them (or 3), how are they called “solas”?
Does schadenfreude only apply to people or can it also apply to institutions? I mean, if I am less than emotionally stricken to see them shoot themselves in the foot, is that schadenfreude or can I do that and still respect myself? Oh, who cares. I think I will do it anyhow.
@ Daisy:
Eagle is going to get upset.
Eagle wrote:
You need to check with Dee and see when she plans to publish the post. 😆
This is seriously painful for me to read. I know many men who are either current students or recent graduates from this institution. My heart breaks for them because I know what they used to be. Interestingly all of them entered seminary with wives who worked; none of their wives work now. They were once dynamic women who dreamed of serving alongside their husbands in the mission field but now they are stepford wives. Oops – I meant to say Mohler wives who strive to live according to his many many “teachings”.
@ Mandy:
Mandy wrote:
So sorry, Mandy! When people change this much to the negative, something must be wrong with an ideology. This almost sounds like a cult? Has anyone made this comparison? And will they ever get deprogrammed?
@ Mandy:
Have these couples joined ranks with the quiverful crowd?
Eagle wrote:
No worry – “and the last shall be first”
Sadly, Mohler is an untouchable in the SBC world.
@ srs:
Good thing I wasn’t drinking the John Piper kool aide when you told me that!! :-p
…which is dumb because Jesus being subordinate/insubordinate/whatever to God the Father, doesn’t prove diddly-squat about gender roles anyway. I expect debates about ESS would be completely confined to egghead theological ivory towers if somebody hadn’t decided to (illegitimately) tie it to gender roles. It should be retired from the gender debate entirely, by both sides, because it doesn’t prove anything about either position.
Eagle wrote:
Is that due to me calling dibs on Firsties? I am sorry. 🙁
I give you a cyber hug, ((( hugs )))
And I hereby bequeath you “Honorary Firsties” on this page. So everyone can just pretend it says “Eagle” on the very top post and not my name. 🙂
@ JeffT:
Or maybe “You will be assimilated” ? They seem more Borg-ish in expecting group think.
dee wrote:
Ruh-roh! I just apologized to him.
There have been about two occasions in the past where I could have been the first poster but didn’t jump on the chance.
I struggle with insomnia and am sometimes up at odd hours. When I checked this blog a time or two in the past (at like 1 or 2 AM my time), I saw brand new posts but resisted the urge to pull a firstie – out of honor of Eagle. Seriously. 🙂
This was one of those times I couldn’t resist.
I googled 5 Solas and I don’t see anything about the celebrity pastor being key. Anyone care to explain how it became 6 solas?
@ Deb:
I don’t think they call themselves “quiverful” but they are definitely having babies every 12-18 months. One girl I knew whose husband attends Mohler’s school flat out tells her to submit when she disagrees with him(and she has had three c-sections in four years). All of them are women with college degrees who have the ability, should they choose, to have spectacular careers both inside and outside the home. I just cannot fathom how the once vibrant free-thinking girls I knew and learned from changed so much. Actually, I can. It started with their obsession with teaching Nancy Leigh DeMoss’s book “Lies Women Believe” in Sunday School. That seemed to be the turning point. Another of my friends just announced that he has been accepted to the Mohler School of Church Business (my name for the college, not the official name) and asked my family if we would help pay for his tuition. We declined to do so.
Daisy wrote:
Never mind single pastors. Albert Mohler doesn’t think too highly of singles, period.
http://www.crosswalk.com/11621125/?ps=0
Owen Strachan looking at evangelical engagement with the wider community? They guy who had what can only be described as a hissy fit about Sesame Street is in charge of trying to better engage the public with the (Southern Baptist) gospel? Could they make a more ridiculous choice?
Daisy wrote:
Thanks to the muckraking of our illustrious blog queens, more and more people are beginning to not give a rat’s rip about what Mohler says. Muckraking is a good thing. If not for Upton Sinclair’s visceral novella The Jungle, we probably wouldn’t have gotten a pure food and drug act through Congress until the reign of FDR.
JeffT wrote:
Now JeffT – I have a serious bone to pick with you here. 🙂
Mos Eisley is, to me, is a WAY more fun and diverse place than anything that could be dreamed up by the anointed celebrity leaders (and in the case of “ESS,” celebrity heretics) of U.S. evangelical protestantism.
However, “wretched hive” is a spot-on descriptor for Big Al’s SBTS, Obi Wan. 🙂
@ Mandy:
“I know many men who are either current students or recent graduates from this institution. My heart breaks for them because I know what they used to be.”
+++++++++++++++++++
Mandy, can you describe what/how they used to be? What changed? What/how are they now?
@ singleman:
Two of these jokers' heroes – John Machen Gresham and Clarence McCartney – were lifelong bachelors. Oh, I forget these aren't Baptists, they are Presbyterians. There are many good Protestant preachers who were single, not to mention the Apostle Paul. And if this criteria is related to gays, the South has a higher than normal incidences of marriages where the wife searches the internet to find out is her husband is gay. Mr. Mohler wouldn't even recognize this. (Sorry Mr. Mohler, I only recognize physicians and dentists as doctors. I wouldn't want you operating on me.)
Deb wrote:
I don’t think that should be encouraged, Deb – there are laws governing insider posting after all.
nmgirl wrote:
Marketing.
Dr Al Mohler if you read this, I would love to discuss your concepts of the age of the Earth and the Validity of the Theory of Evolution. Thanks.
Mandy wrote:
You need to get this trademarked – it’s going to get a lot of use and will make you a ton of money 😉
Great post Dee! Posts like this cause me to rejoice in the power of technology. Secrets are so much harder to hide.
Here in Boston, we’ve had many secrets brought to light in recent years. It deflates the power of fear. Men like Whitey Bulger, or Cardinal Law, have been exposed. The work you all do at The Wartburg Watch is bringing freedom to those who are afraid.
Yes, mark! Excellent point. A “hybrid” Calvinism!!
Mark wrote:
“Mohler School of Church Business”
Yes. . . truly this is what Protestantism has become.
Mandy wrote:
@Mandy — And who has the gall to ask for help financing their child's education??????? @ elizabeth:
@ Nick Bulbeck:
Thanks for starting my day off with a chuckle. 😆
@ Mandy: @ elizabeth:
YES! Inquiring minds want to know…
@ elizabeth: ………..
A very similar thing happened at our former church. Young women (at their "Bible " study) began reading, 'Lies Women Believe' and sure enough started turning into stepford wives. The pastor had been covertly introducing neo Cal doctrine. I knew a takeover was coming when rumor had it female deacons were going to be removed from office.
Deb wrote:
Hmm… read a certain way, that would mean that when I chuckle it starts your day. Now that’s power! I’ll be the envy of Park Fiscal and his wannabe’s the world over!
I feel a “muwahahahahahahaaaaaaaaa” coming on…
@ Lin:
It would be very interesting to know how many churches have been taken over like your former church. I am afraid it is a huge number.
Well, at least they are now becoming more honest what it all about: it is about patriarchy. Maybe the times are more conducive and they feel will experience less backlash, so they can change the term complementarian to patriarchy. It seems they are showing their true colors as time goes by. Next thing, we will have the Handmaids Tale.
Please do not confuse the “solas” of the reformation with the 5 points of Calvinism, so-called. The term TULIP only came into use in 1913. These are completely different things.
O.K. so now y'all have gone and done it…
Because of the recent comments about the tome written by Nancy Leigh DeMoss, I have given into temptation and ordered Lies Women Believe: And the Truth That Sets Them Free on Amazon.
The good news is that I found a hardback copy in new condition for just a dollar. 🙂 And the proceeds from the sale of this second hand book will go toward literacy. 😆 I don't mind investing a buck for a good cause.
Anyway, I promise to read this book thoroughly and post a review. I can remember hearing Nancy discussing Lies Women Believe once with some guests on the radio, and I was so alarmed! Looking forward to the challenge.
singleman wrote:
OK Apostate Al, so JESUS, Paul, etc., etc. were all big-time sinners because they didn’t marry. All those stacks of books and you pull ‘Christian’ doctrine out of your arse. And so many people let him get away with this garbage and swallow it hook, line, and sinker. Way too many people in this world willing to be chumps.
Deb wrote:
Exactly what I do! I think it's important to know what those whose positions you are opposed to are saying. That said, if I know I strongly disagree with them, I refuse to buy their books new. Instead, I buy them used so don't pay the author royalties and, as a bonus, can usually find a source like you did that promotes a good cause.
@ Hester:
Once I found out that a lot of people do believe in ESS doctrine, I do bring it when up when talking about gender hierarchy or any church hierarchy for that matter. I found that I am totally wasting my breath with the ESS crowd but the equal trinity comp crowd at least listens and considers the possibility of harmony without hierarchy.
Looks like my description of the source of Mohler’s ‘doctrine’ on marriage landed me in moderation 🙂
@ Rafiki:
🙂
Deb wrote:
You know, when I parted ways with my former CULT two years ago, my father wanted me to return to my SBC roots. Since reading TWW I’ve been very leery of doing so. The SBC is not the same denomination I knew 25 years ago. Mandy’s description sounds more like the CULT I just came out of! Different theology, same agenda.
Mandy wrote:
I just thought of this after having adopted a second rescue female dog. There doesn’t seem to be much difference between a woman in this situation and a female dog in a puppy mill.
mirele fka Southwestern Discomfort wrote:
Yeah it’s terrible for adjuncts these days.
But these super-righteous “intellectual” inerrantists (by which they mean themselves) are completely unlike those godless and worldly univs/colleges. Because when these administrators grab job security and good wages only for themselves, it’s for a pure reason–the onerous task of maintaining doctrinal purity “at all costs” to everyone else.
We all know that keeping the holy grail safe is difficult, complex and life-threatening work. And every laborer should be paid commensurate to his task—that’s Christian!
@ BeenThereDoneThat:
I am just barely a Southern Baptist after 40 years and I can assure you I do not recognize the place that used to be my home.
Someone’s took it over and I am not welcome there anymore, particularly since I might have different views than the “leaders.”
Patrice wrote:
Like Party Commissars in the old Soviet Union, maintaining Ideological Purity at all costs to others.
JeffT wrote:
Except male puppies don’t inherit property and power from their owner.
Lin wrote:
The slow boiling frog approach of Salami Tactics — one little slice at a time.
Exactly like Stalin used to take over Eastern Europe after WW2.
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
What is this? And, a ridge scramble?
mot wrote:
………..
Yes, it would be good to have some statistics on the takeovers. I too believe it’s a substantial number.
Mohler has been working hard to turn SBTS into a fundamentalist institution. The fact that unqualified and underproductive people like Burk and Strachan would merit more than an associate professorship tells you what is important to the leaders – and it isn’t academic integrity.
I do understand the tenure thing, since the trajectory of SBTS has resulted in its continued decline, but the point of tenure is to protect academic freedom. Without tenure, anyone who has a dissenting voice gets the boot.
Not unexpected, but discouraging. It would be completely different if I could point to SBTS and say, “Despite my disagreement with policy or even doctrine, there is a group of highly ethical people whose actions display the love of God and the power of the gospel.” It is sad that the situation is completely otherwise.
@ Deb:
Great idea, Deb. I just did the “look inside” on this book on Amazon, and it is pretty obvious that there may be a lot of stuff there to write about. I particularly noticed the “lie” entitled “it is up to us to determine our family size.”
Philip Gunn, speaker of the Mississippi House of Representatives, was elected as chairman of the board of trustees
(Appointed to chair) Bruce A. Ware as T. Rupert and Lucille Coleman Professor of Christian Theology;
(Promoted) Denny Burk to professor of biblical studies. additional three-year contracts were approved for Burk
Yikes, yikes, and yikes! I don’t need to read another word.
mot wrote:
This.
@ Mandy:
As a former Louisvillian I can attest to having seen this myself. Oh, and apparently it’s okay for wifey to work if it’s putting hubs through $chool. With the understanding that the nonsense stops post-graduation cause it’s baby time.
Gunn was heavily involved from the beginning of the Langworthy abuse case, not just as an elder but early on in the spring of 2011, he was acting as Langworthy’s attorney. He called my friend Sherry that is mentioned in the post and discussed his conversations with Langworthy in a legal manner. He did send me emails asking if I would call him to “discuss a resolution.” I replied, “No.” WJTV reported on this and showed the emails:
http://www.wjtv.com/story/21261697/email-shows-gunns-role-in-abuse-case
Gunn was also involved in urging Langworthy to take the plea deal. Gunn, Belser and the elders had already been sent subpoenas to appear at the trial. I think he did everything he could to keep Langworthy out of trial, pressured him to take the deal so that he and the other elders wouldn’t be called to testify about all Langworthy had told them. The plea deal included no prison time for a 50 year sentence.
Hester wrote:
There is a reason for this. They claim that they have a Biblical reason for everything that they do. This reason must be tied to a deeper doctrinal concept to make it stick. Hence ESS…
JeffT wrote:
I had a good laugh at this. Maybe I should consider starting a spam filter that ferrets out goofy theology.
Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist wrote:
They would disagree by pointing out to a new “academic” pursuit…culture warrior.
Amy Smith wrote:
This says it all, Amy. It appears that SBTS will not stand strong against the heinous activities of pedophiles when they attend an SBC church.
@ notastepfordsheep:
That was my response when I read this.
I have asked this once before… When is Mohler gonna be a grandpa? His family needs to practice what they preach!!! 😉
sigh wrote:
We’ve seen this. Steve Gaines’ daughter, a new college grad whose new husband attends (or did attend… not sure if he still does) SBTS, was appointed “administrative assistant” to Russell Moore. Does anyone think an inexperienced, fresh-out-of-college, young 20-something would be offered what has to be a highly-sought, enviable (for them at least), competitive position had she not had a little “pull” from someone? I’ve always said it’s not what you know, it’s who you know, and I’ve always found that to be true in life. Not slamming the daughter personally, but it just looks a little off that THE Russell Moore would not have commanded a much more seasoned AA for his lofty position at SBTS.
And yes, Russell Moore coincidentally left SBTS for the ERLC when said daughter and her husband announced they were expecting.
Here is a question to ponder. I have some ideas, but first I want to throw the question out there. To whose ultimate advantage would it be to denigrate Jesus (with the ESS stuff)?
We are saying that Mohler et al do it in order to justify comp / patriarchy. So, what “enemy” of Jesus might be whispering in their ears to do this–some enemy who might have as the primary purpose not necessarily to put down women (that may just be a means to an end) but rather to do battle against Jesus himself? And what enemy might see the weakness of Mohler et al in this area and be taking advantage of it to “get at” Jesus and try to thwart His claims to authority. Perhaps the denigration of Jesus is the payoff, not just the methodology, for said enemy.
Not saying that Mohler et al are that enemy, just that they may have played into the hands of the enemy. Think Lewis and Screwtape Letters. Their sex and gender ideas may be the weak spot, the bridgehead, for their downfall in this area.
If I am off base here, forgive me. It just looks to me that there is a lot more to this than meets the eye.
dee wrote:
“Foties” is Glaswegian for photographs. Sadly, I uploaded them to the Mac this morning and they all turned out to be rubbish (lot of lens flare).
A ridge scramble is a ridge that is rocky and narrow enough to require use of the hands, and so is usually considered more interesting than a ridge walk. The classic in question was the north wall of Glencoe, known as the Aonach Eagach (the “notched ridge”).
@ notastepfordsheep:
Yep, Southern and Louisville are both shallow pools. Although it sounds like things have declined even more since I left.
In the case of SBTS, the abolition of tenure seems to be for the purpose of stamping out dissenting viewpoints. However, as I learned in my middle school days, tenure has its disadvantages when instructors behave inappropriately.
When I was in 8th grade, I witnessed a male teacher assault a female student in the process of disciplining her during a class. Nothing sexual happened, but the teacher was clearly out of line. Since he had tenure, termination would have been difficult despite his actions. He was eventually persuaded to resign.
That same year a male P.E. teacher assaulted several of his students, including yours truly. He was a first-year teacher and didn’t have tenure yet, so he was dismissed for his actions.
I’m sure tenure at the college and graduate school level is different in many ways, but I share my story to demonstrate that tenure presents some problems.
@ Nick Bulbeck:
Is Mac feeling better then? After his recent crash that is.
@ elizabeth:
“And who has the gall to ask for help financing their child’s education???????”
++++++++++++++++
people who have been swayed to see SBTS as God’s favored mission, God’s outpost on earth, where specially chosen people go who are “called”.
dee wrote:
from this post at Cottonmouth a few weeks ago:
http://cottonmouthblog.blogspot.com/2014/03/speaker-philip-gunn-child-abuse-and.html
Yesterday, House Speaker Philip Gunn (R-Clinton) participated in a charity run to help victims of child abuse and human trafficking. Let the irony sink in for a moment.
This is the same Philip Gunn who back in 2011 led the task of hushing any discussion of alleged child abuse that took place at Gunn’s Morrison Heights Baptist Church. This went so far as to discourage people from talking with the police about reports of criminal activity against a child.
To recap:
1. In 2011, Gunn claimed a secrecy provision to keep members of his church from talking to the police and county prosecutors about alleged child abuse.
2. Yesterday, Gunn has the nerve to participate in a race to help victims of crimes he once tried to ignore and silence.
3. For the next 22 months, he will be a top Republican leader in Mississippi as he serves as Speaker of the House while professing to uphold family values.
more from WJTV: What Philip Gunn Did In Child Sex Case
http://www.wjtv.com/story/21261586/what-philip-gunn-did-in-child-sex-case#.U1KitR61s7A
Gunn says he supports a law requiring the reporting allegations of child abuse. He claims Democrats have blocked the legislation for years.
But it’s ironic that Gunn is pushing for such a bill to be passed.
According to Hinds County prosecutors, Gunn would not allow spiritual leaders at Morrison Heights Baptist Church in Clinton to discuss with the District Attorney’s office what former music minister John Langworthy told them about his alleged child sex abuse.
We asked Gunn: Should you of done that? “What I’m telling you is that the elders are bound by privilege under the law there’s a legal privilege that attaches. Are there no exceptions to that. No there are no exceptions to that, ” Gunn said in an interview Tuesday.
Gunn cited Mississippi rules of evidence #505 about priest-penitent privilege.
Don’t you have a higher calling to God than to just hide behind the blanket letter of the law? “The letter of the law prevents us from divulging what Mr. Langworthy may have told us. That’s the law. I didn’t make the law that’s just the way it is.”
Gunn tells us church elders didn’t do anything wrong they didn’t withhold any information from prosecutors because that information was already in the public domain. The victims had already come forward and told their stories.
Still, Hinds County prosecutors want to know what Langworthy allegedly told the ministers at the church and say they are prepared to get a subpoena if that’s what it takes to get them to talk.
The elders Gunn is speaking of are not ordained ministers. They are lay leaders in the church, appointed or elected to serve, like deacons.
Russell Moore said: “Gender identity and complementarianism… I hate ….the word ‘complementarian’, I prefer the word ‘patriarchy’…
Isn’t this identical to something Bill Gothard would say? Isn’t the whole quiverful movement based on patriarchy?
Now on anti-birth control. I don’t find evidence that would place Al Mohler in this camp. Instead in his 2006 blog he states that Christians shouldn’t develop a contraceptive mindset where children are an imposition rather than a gift from God. He indicates that it isn’t a mandate for a woman to bear 15 children though it is possible in our modern times, and that such families should be honored.
So my question is what not the contraceptive mindset ? A woman’s life is endangered. Economic reasons could be a pragmatic reason? Al Mohler hasn’t spelled this out because it can be all so subjective. In the end, my perception is that Al Mohler is against oral contraception, but given the subjective nature, also he feels it is a personal choice. Family planning may be a difficult decision under these views because of that contraceptive mindset description Al Mohler is against.
Now as far as actually being in this institution with so much indoctrination and the views on procreation as a gift from God it may be viewed as a blessing to have as many children as possible.
On the other topic, I have concerns about a church shielding criminals. For being so much into Old Testament law in some cases and being law and order kinds of folks, it is kind of hypocritical. There is such a thing of righteousness and there are certain acts that are not church state divisible acts. Child sexual abuse or rape are viewed as immoral in Christianity, at least from my perspective. If it all shielded by a church, the church has sanctioned these acts and needs to be called out as a church that sanctions rape and child sexual and other abuse.
And now, Morrison Heights is partnering with the Baptist Children’s Village and hosting a Sexual Abuse Awareness Training Conference on April 29. Only 10 days away, there is still no mention on their church website about this conference. I called on Thursday morning to ask why that is and was told by Administrative Assistant Sharon Prather, “We are looking into it.” http://watchkeep.blogspot.com/2014/04/morrison-heights-baptist-churchs-sex.html?m=1
Greg Belser, pastor of Morrison Heights, was willing to give his pulpit to John Langworthy to confess his child sex crimes, the former MH minister, and now convicted child sex offender, on a Sunday morning in August 2011. Greg then dedicated the sermon that morning to praising and supporting John Langworthy and his wife Kathy who remains on the church music staff. Belser even took shots in his “sermon” at those of us who worked to expose the truth about Langworthy. Belser then invited the congregation that Sunday morning to publicly surround the Langworthys, and hugging, crying and praying ensued. How painful it must have been to be a victim of Langworthy or any other offender that day.
To this day, there has never been a moment of mention from the pulpit of the victims: no crying, no support, no praying for them. There has never been a plea from Morrison Heights for anyone else who may been harmed by Langworthy to contact the police, to seek justice, begin to heal and to protect other kids. Langworthy pleaded guilty in January 2013 to 5 counts of sex abuse of 5 boys ages 6-13 from 1980-84. He was sentenced to 50 years in prison, but all of it was suspended, so he didn’t spend a day in prison and was immediately allowed to return home from court the day of his conviction and sentencing. Children are safest when predators are in jail.
In a phone conversation with Greg Belser in February 2011, he told me and Sherry LeFils that he wanted to “save John.” That was his priority then, and it seems to still be his priority 3 years later with no public indication otherwise. Will he speak at the conference at his church? Will he mention support for the victims? Will he urge others to come forward to the police? Whether he wants it to be addressed or not, Langworthy is the elephant in the room.
Sorry for so many comments but I forgot this new gem. Belser was recently appointed to be on the ERLC’s Leadership Council http://erlc.com/network/council/ and is a featured speaker at the ERLC’s Sexuality Summit on April 21, 2014. http://erlc.com/summit/schedule/
Keynote: J.D. Greear “Mending Fences: The Gospel and Pastoral Care for Sexual Sin”
Panel: The Gospel and Homosexuality
Moderator: Andrew Walker, Russell D. Moore, Greg Belser, Jimmy Scroggins, J.D. Greear, Mark Regnerus
You can’t make this stuff up.
mirele fka Southwestern Discomfort wrote:
Yes, I think it is sad how quickly certain SBC leaders will abandon the faith received in order to promote their sociological agenda. I have said it before and I’ll say it again; anyone can be a comp if that is their conviction, but ESS is a heresy, period, and needs to be called out and opposed publicly and vocally.
Deb wrote:
Ms. DeMoss also has a video on YouTube.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLgmX5gJnEI
Hester wrote:
Yeah, I try to stay relatively neutral in my assessment, but there are some things that are so block-headed I get frustrated just thinking about them. You bring up a good (basic) point. Even if the ESS heresy wasn’t, you know, heresy, it is still irrelevant. There is no logical basis for transferring the intra-trinitarian relationship of God with himself to a binary relationship between different entities. Warning: pretzel logic ahead.
Pam wrote:
No.
Amy Smith wrote:
YOU shouldn’t be the one apologizing. It took a little child to finally point out that the emperor had no clothes on. The adults were too afraid of looking foolish. If you’ve ever been close to someone whose been molested (and I know you have), it’s nearly impossible to smile and act normal as the naked emperor prances by.
Forgive me if someone has pointed it out already–time to read the ladies’ post but not all the replies.
The 5solas are not the 5 points of Calvinism. Many Wesleyans and other Arminians agree with the 5 solas but reject TULIP.
In a way, I think maybe it is a good thing for a seminary to be open and upfront about what they will and will not teach. Much like going into what purports to be a Burger King to get a burger only to find they are a Pizza Hut in disguise. This way folks know what they support, or do not support. If they do, they know how the money will be spent so to speak. And if they don’t agree, they can take their dollars elsewhere. Same with enrolling–you know to what you would get and can choose accordingly.
BeenThereDoneThat wrote:
Well, yes, this is the concern many of us have. After the failure of the IFB movement, the fundamentalists just migrated to the SBC.
@ Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist:
So that explains it…
Googled TULIP. Still nothing about obeying the celebrity pastor in all things. So what exactly do these people believe in, besides power and money?
@ Lin:
Thanks for your comment!
@ Dr. Fundystan:
And obviously those blockquotes are broken.
nmgirl wrote:
You make a good point, although the problem with celebrity pastors is not limited to Calvinism.
I wonder how ” dead in the water” my resume would be today.
Former church staffer, 30 years teaching experience, music ministry, mission work,
Alumni of SWBTS, had Tommy Brisco, Boo Heflin, T. B. Matson, And Penrose St. Amant as professors. ( Dr St. Amant was former Chair of Church History at SBTS and spent a couple of years teaching in Ft Worth after he retired from being President of the Baptist Seminary in Switzerland….he and Ralph Wooster are the two most amazing teachers I ever had the privilege to witness.)
No Calvinism, no Arminianism, believe everyone has a place at the table, men, women, boys, girls, black, white, Latino…….
I wouldn’t have a chance would I?
@ K.D.:
They might be wondering whether you are truly "regenerated"…
A former member at Prestonwood Baptist Church posted this about the culture of abuse and corruption she experienced there: https://www.facebook.com/PBCSilentNoMore/posts/616511425101361
I applaud you for standing up. I was a member of Prestonwood for well over 20 years when I experienced physical abuse at the hands of my cheating husband (who was cheating with women at Prestonwood) and Jack Graham ignored my pleas for help and his elders also not only ignored me but made me out to be the problem! The elders are only there to protect him so don’t expect him to be held accountable for anything. The culture there is like an auditorium of well-dressed seat warmers in a stepford-like stupor. I am, frankly, weary of PW members defending him when they don’t have the facts-they just blather on and on about how perfect he is and they always attack the messenger. I find it interesting that Graham isn’t interested in all the bed hopping at Prestonwood and he wasn’t interested in reporting this child molester to police yet he had no problem reporting a man who’s only crime was to ask a question of “his highness” on his fb page! Oh, one more thing, notice his family all have jobs at Prestonwood-none of them stand in unemployment lines like the “lower” people. How’s that for nepotism? And for all you PW members who can’t wait to pounce on my comments-please spare me the histrionics of feigning how saintly he is because I was there and I saw and heard with my own ears and eyes!!!! Don’t post ignorant defenses of him because you may be eating your words one day and feel like a fool because you don’t have the facts. Research and open your eyes and see what is going on in your own church and don’t accept Graham’s pathetic comparison to Jesus because Jesus did not have to answer His accusers because He is King and He is sinless-Graham is neither King nor sinless so he absolutely DOES have to answer to the church and authorities for his cover up of this abuser. There are some wonderful people at PW but my gosh, people, use your brain God gave you and your discernment and scripture! Why don’t you all wake up and figure out why so many believers who attended PW a LONG time and saw and heard things are warning others? John tells us to test the spirits! Jack Graham bore false witness against this man for merely questioning him on an extremely egregious issue and he is called terrible names and his character defamed? And PW members stand by and do nothing??? Shame on all of you!
Lin wrote:
What concerns me is that the Calvinism is a bit militant. They have no respect for those who aren’t Calvinist. Was the SBC once Calvinist? Possibly the founders were. So if SBTS recruits attempt to covertly take over a church, do they view Arminian soteriology as heretical? And if they view women deacons as anti scriptural, is egalitarianism heresy? It is time all of this should be placed on the table and examined. Here is a still relevant article from 2001 from Wartburg Watch. Something to be aware of — if you state you are not a Calvinist, you have faulty doctrine according to SBTS.
http://thewartburgwatch.com/2011/10/27/sbc-association-rejects-acts-29-church/
Hester wrote:
🙂 I think I was in a particularly frank frame of mind that day. 🙂
@ Mark:
The Free Will Baptists are arminian. That has nothing to do with SBC or with IFB. The thinking among SBC people when I was young (roughly from 1940 to maybe the mid sixties) was a hodge podge of “whosoever will” on the one hand and “once saved always saved” on the other. The Free Will Baptists say whosoever will but do not say once saved always saved. The new calvinists may say whosoever will but it comes with a caveat, and they do say once saved always saved. That is not by any means the whole answer, but it is the heart of the issue for lots of folks.
The struggle between the particular Baptists (calvinist) and the general Baptists (arminian) (using the old terminology-not some denominational designation) goes all the way back to the beginning of baptist-dom. But individual SBC baptists have been all over the place, and from about the mid 1960s or so until the fundamentalist takeover, mostly baptists on the pew had very little idea what they believed about much of anything.
There are exceptions to all of this, of course.
This is pure Cleaverism ~ The worship of Ward, June, Wally and the Beave.
I say we give these Mohler groupies a heartfelt salute.
┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐
@ Sabrae:
“┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐”
+++++++++++
how’d you do that?
@ Nancy:
I have little I find that I disagree with in this statement
http://www.founders.org/abstract.html
I wouldn’t want to be called a Calvinist. But the gentleman that has an institute on the advertisement of Reformed Seminary in Florida named after him, Roger Nicole, was an inerrantist and an egalitarian. Nicole, a Calvinist baptist, would take issue with what is going on at Southern Seminary. When will reformed theologians of Nicole’s stature call heresy?
elastigirl wrote:
Eat enough jelly beans and you can do just about anything.
I’m kickin’ ASCII and takin’ names. 😀
Sabrae wrote:
Most impressive!!!
Just out of curiosity, did you get those nuts in your handbag yet????
http://www.trinketsinbloom.com/diy-hex-nut-clutch
┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐
Ok, now that is cool. We must start a Wartburg Hackers Group.
Marie2 wrote:
The tables have turned.
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
In other news, Liverpool are now five points clear with three games remaining (and therefore nine points to play for). If we can beat Chelsea at home next week, the title would become a two-horse race between ourselves and Man City.
As an aside, although I have nothing against Arsenal, I’d quite like Everton to get fourth place as this raises the prospect of an all-Merseyside Champions’ League final next season.
I hope this is helpful.
Sabrae wrote:
Ok, cool…So when you go on your best selling book tour to explain all of this, I will be one of the first in line to buy myself an autographed copy. 🙂
@ Nick Bulbeck:
From the BBC: “If Liverpool do not win the title now, it will be regarded as one of the biggest missed opportunities in their history.”
PRESSURE IS ON!!! Plus Jose Mourinho was a FURIOUS man yesterday, watch out! 🙂
@ Rafiki:
I, too, have read Phil McNulty’s article; though IMHO our biggest missed opportunity was the World Club Championship in 2005/6.
Jose Mourinho (the Park Fiscal of club fitba’ management) has been playing mind game. He has several:
• “It was the referee’s fault”
• “
Pellegrini has a bigger transfer budget than meWe’re just a little horse by God’s grace”• “The media are sinfully craving answers”
• “I urge everyone I’ve insulted by the Spirit’s grace to be reconciled with me”
@ Nick Bulbeck:
Oh, and of course, the classic:
• “The bitter team lost”
Very sad to see what has happened. I have a couple friends, husband and wife, both grads of SBTS before the present regime took control, fine people, just plain old Christians in the best sense (as in lovers of Jesus who approach the Scriptures with a sense of some things being hills you die upon–such as Jesus is God, saved by grace through faith–and others being no reason to divide–such as most of what the present regime emphasizes at metaphorical point of sword) who essentially have had their credentials taken away from them.
When I first heard they were seminary grads a decade ago and asked them where, it was obviously a source of pain, “Well, uh, SBTS…but BEFORE the crazies took over.” I’d hate to have an advanced degree that through no fault of my own required several minutes of explanation, basically they’re stigmatized at any place other than the type of churches they’d never attend.
K.D. wrote:
This is unfortunately going on throughout academia, but primarily for financial reasons, but in the case of SBTS, it feels like more of a Stalinist purge to assure doctrinal purity and presidential control. Mohler will within one generation destroy the academic reputation and quality of what once was a pretty good institution.
I’m sure he doesn’t explicitly intend evil, sure he thinks he’s just so darned right and bravely standing up in the face of creeping liberalism, a Lutheresque stalwart for truth “Here I stand!” But he’s a bright shining example of the destructive hubris that sets in when you cut off all dissent and think the most important part of the Body of Christ is you.
dee wrote:
The very hallmark of the antichrist is to of course to diminish Christ. I’ve seen it in every cultic church I’ve attended. They invariably find a way to reduce Jesus, either by explicit doctrine or by making something else other than Him, but vaguely related (such as church growth, complementarianism, 5 points, baptism, etc.) The Main Thing…”The Mission”.
ESS is an extremely dangerous belief because it has a sort of plausibility, not quite overtly and utterly blasphemous–and yet it is blasphemy. Just the sort of thing to destroy the Church, to “deceive even the elect, if that were possible.”
@ LawProf:
Yes. Precisely. Thank you for saying it so well.
LawProf wrote:
Well, univ/college admins say it’s for financial reasons, but it isn’t, not really. Tuition continues to skyrocket, physical campuses continue to expand. Administration swells in the number of employees, how much they pay themselves, and the power they grab. Increasingly, particularly in the sciences, tenured faculty need to bring in their own research grants (of which part goes to their own wages) or their “programs” are shut down (rendering tenure contracts moot).
This is happening at the same time that undergrad classes are taught by grad students. Adjuncts line up behind the grad students (PhD’s and all) because even though their pay is pathetic, it is more than what a school pays a grad student. Moreover, the number of students in each class are more than maxed, and classes are shut down when a rather high minimum doesn’t occur, whether students need it in a sequenced curriculum or not.
It’s the same pattern as has been going on in financial institutions and the larger corps. And in our gov’t and military. Power hunger and diminishing ethics drive it. Their biggest excuse is no money, therefore “austerity”. But if this were true at univ/college, for eg, there’d be minimal and efficient administration with modest wages, because of, you know, their devotion to the ideals of a good education, which is actually about teachers teaching.
Mohler and co do it for the same reasons. They say it’s for “purity” but only their way is “pure”, right. And even so, “purity” has nothing to do with getting rid of tenure.
I see little difference between this approach and wanting power merely for money and social position, except that it’s less honest. Plus, dragging God into it is dangerously arrogant. God isn’t a fool.
My strongly held opinion. 😉
@ Patrice:
In the public schools in my state the teachers are losing tenure three years from now, unless the legislature changes the law before then. My daughter has already been told by administration that they can hire somebody fresh our of school with only an A certificate cheaper than they are paying her (with 20+ years on the job and an advanced degree.) They made it crystal clear that nothing personal was going on–just money–and they hate it but are being forced into that position–by a recently passed law from the legislature.
The path to success in education has become the road to unemployment.
@ Nancy:
That’s elementary/high ed? What contempt for both teacher and profession and students! I’m worried for our kids!
My daughter is currently working part-time at a Whole Foods which makes excellent monthly profit. She doesn’t get her schedule for the week until the Thursday before and it will vary as is convenient for the managers. She’s also taking a couple of classes and has to repeatedly tell them those hours are non-negotiable. Contempt for the worker. Moreover, they always run just a tad short-handed, making the workers cover. More contempt. My daughter had to take two jobs’ worth on Saturday and they gave her a $10 “gift certificate” at day’s end because she blew her top. Throw a little sugar on that contempt.
This store loses workers continually for these reasons, but it doesn’t matter to them since there are so many who need work.
Of course, it isn’t only Whole Foods that does this. They’re just contributing their little bit to the zeitgeist of disdain. The saddest thing is that those businesses who maintain their ethics often end up losing in our society, where unethical behavior is allowed to remain more profitable and thus celebrated. Incentives have gone upside down.
And gov’t goes right along. And our educational systems too.
And it’s as true inside the institutional church as outside of it, which is the most awful of all, IMO. Mohler-types, just like mega-pastors of all stripes, think they’re holy and separate and oh-so-honorable but they are merely pathetic followers of the worst in “secular” society.
And THEY go on about sin….pfffft
This info about Molher’s latest shenanigans with SBTS is eerily similar to CJ Mahaney’s pastors collage.
Patrice wrote:
Yes.