Threatening Emails Sent to TWW

“If you run from enemy fire, I'll make you wash dishes for the rest of your life!” -Naoki Urasawa, 20th Century Boys, 19 link

http://www.publicdomainpictures.net/view-image.php?image=7195&picture=kangaroo-fightKangaroo Fight

 

When we began this blog, we made a decision to keep emails confidential. But what happens when we receive an email which appears to be threatening bodily harm? Do we keep that confidential? Many professions have confidentiality policies. However, is it considered ethical to breach confidentiality when a threat is made to harm another. For example

Most people are aware that confidentiality can be broken if the client is believed to be a danger to him or herself or someone else.  A psychologist or other mental health professional may be required to break confidentiality in order to protect the client or the person that they are threatening to harm.

Years ago, when we first did a few posts on Mark Driscoll, we received an over the top email from someone who claimed to be affiliated with Mars Hill, which called us filthy and disgusting names. We had no way of proving that and, realizing anyone can claim anything on the internet, we let the email lapse into internet oblivion. That continued to be our policy through the years.

However, we have received two emails and a phone call which could be interpreted, by reasonable people, as being a threat to harm us. We blew off another "we are going to get lawyers involved" email since we knew that we had merely cut and pasted comments from publicly available blogs. In our posts, we reported, as accurately as possible ,our conversations with various entities such as Dana Farber Cancer Institute. 

Bene D, a reader and blogger, quoted the relevant information in terms of reporting a crime. We are planning on taking Bene D's advice.

Internet Business Law Services:

“Therefore, according to 18 U.S.C. § 875(c) sending e-mails with words threatening injury is a federal crime and can be easily proven by showing that it was sent to a person in other state, showing the e-mail, and the wording the e-mail contains. Thus, individuals prompt to explosive reactions should be cautions when wording their e-mail messages. A simple ‘mistake’ in wording e-mails threatening its recipient with an injury, even if not intended, may typify a federal crime with a harsh imprisonment sentence.”

http://www.ibls.com/internet_law_news_portal_view.aspx?id=2064&s=latestnews

Threatening across state lines is a federal crime in your country.
You can print out the emails with full headers, go to police and file a report.

We realize that there are some out there who might question our truthfulness in this matter so we have decided to publish two of the emails. There are more emails out there but we are presently not able to discuss them for reasons of privacy. (It'll make sense if we can tell you about it later.)

When we decided to do our posts on Mark Driscoll and John Catanzaro, we were warned by another writer on the internet that there could be trouble. Said person refused to speak further on the matter. We are guessing that we have found out exactly what happens to people who look for truth within certain segments of the postevangelical wilderness as the late Michael Spencer called it.

Email Number One

——— Original Message ——–
Subject: Hey Deb
From: Jace Jacobson 
Date: Wed, February 05, 2014 5:47 pm
To: deb@thewartburgwatch.com

I am going to spam the s*** out of your email!
You stupid b****, telling half truths

Dee's husband, wanting to calm her down and make her laugh, said a perfect rejoinder would have been "I am not stupid." (See if you get it). Now, this becomes alarming, especially viewed in light of the next email.

Email Number 2

From: Steve Carlson   crazymansteve@xxxxxxx.com (we are hiding one part of the email)   (Update :2/7)
Subject: Intruding into others lives may come back to get you
To: dee@thewartburgwatch.com

I recently learned that you have been harrassing (sic) some friends of mine in your online blog. While they are the sweetest people in the whole world, I am not.

Actually, I am a very angry and unstable individual who cares alot about friends, but not much for myself. As it turns out, I live in Raleigh, North Carolina… where do you live? 

Oh wait, I just found your address….
Darlene Parsons

(In this space was Dee's complete, accurate address. Also, Dee's legal name is Darlene)

Is that you?

I know EXACTLY where that is… and I would LOVE to find out exactly who is harrassing (sic) my friends. I think I may just do that VERY soon.
 
See you soon Darlene.
~Steve

We believe this to be a direct, imminent threat and we will be reporting this to the authorities.

The question remains. Who is responsible for this? 

We believe that Mark Driscoll continues to have a moral obligation to announce to his followers why John Catanzaro's posts have been scrubbed from the Resurgence website. We think the key may lie there. If anything happens to either of us, please make sure that everyone sees this post.

We want to thank our friends for their kind and supportive words.

Comments

Threatening Emails Sent to TWW — 232 Comments

  1. I wish I wasn’t first again…however after the love, grace, and help you showed me. I’m standing with you Deebs!!

  2. Dee and Deb: These need to be turned over to the police. I would call them now and give them the e-mails so they can investigate. I am sure the local police would be interested in the 2nd e-mail and perhaps they can advise you about the first e-mail. Romans 13:1. Stay strong. Praying for you dear ladies!

  3. I figured one of them had to be “Jace”. His comments sounded like the guy was a real piece of work and I couldn’t find his original comments (only the replies) after you announced you had received a threat and had banned the threatener for life.

    But the second one sounds serious. “I Know Where You Live” is at the very least STALKING, and publishing name, address, etc is a known intimidation tactic (opening up the opportunity to “Let Bubba Do It”).

    Jace sounds like just another Royal A-hole shooting off his mouth (and demonstrating his vocabulary), but the other guy sounds like he could be serious; I’d go to the cops about him.

  4. Julie Anne wrote:

    Dee and Deb: These need to be turned over to the police. I would call them now and give them the e-mails so they can investigate. I am sure the local police would be interested in the 2nd e-mail and perhaps they can advise you about the first e-mail. Romans 13:1. Stay strong. Praying for you dear ladies!

    Agreeing with Julie Anne. Definitely report those e-mails.

  5. Contact law enforcement.

    I do not know if you if believe in this or not, you may want to buy a firearm and practice. ( I know, I’m a hillbilly / redneck.) But if I were to call my local sheriff, in an emergency, they MIGHT be here in 20-30 minutes.
    But if you do anything, contact local police.

    I’ve received similar. Most of the time they are all fluff.

    Praying for both of you.

    K.D.

  6. K.D. wrote:

    I’ve received similar. Most of the time they are all fluff.

    Like I said above, Jace sounds like he’s shooting off his mouth and demonstrating his cussword vocabulary. THE OTHER ONE SOUNDS “SERIOUS THREAT” AND “HOSTILE STALKER”.

  7. Over the past few years especially in the spiritual abuse survivors’ community, we’ve been coming to understand the importance of *mandatory reporting* by those in ministry of known or suspected sexual abuse. Letting the authorities do their job is one way to promote prevention of such abuse in the future and minimize the number of victims of sexual predators.

    It seems to me that a parallel principle applies here, in your reporting these threatening emails to the police authorities. If known or suspected perpetrators of actual or potential violence on others are allowed to go unchecked in such situations, how many more people will suffer from their abuses later?

    The peacemakers often suffer untold depths for the ultimate redemptive good of others. Dee and Deb, I appreciate that you two have continued taking risks for the sake of this community, and though not required to, are reporting these emails. You have been making virtual world safer for we who have survived spiritual abuse, and I appreciate you both immensely for your ongoing candor and courage. Thank you …

  8. Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

    K.D. wrote:
    I’ve received similar. Most of the time they are all fluff.
    Like I said above, Jace sounds like he’s shooting off his mouth and demonstrating his cussword vocabulary. THE OTHER ONE SOUNDS “SERIOUS THREAT” AND “HOSTILE STALKER”.

    As I said, you’d be shocked at the “threats” just like #2 when I was doing radio. Some even came to the station….but they ‘seemed’ to come when we were not there.
    Turn it over to law enforcement. They can track the I.P.

    Don’t panic. Don’t alter your routine…they are hoping to do this in order to “win.”

    Just be careful.

  9. Seconding other encouragement to go to the police, which you’ve likely already done.

    At the same time, while the second email sounds serious and should be taken seriously, finding an address and claiming to know where it is aren’t really impressive in and of themselves. It’s public record and a matter of using Google Maps. It sounds like the second letter was meant to use these things to intimidate you, but that data in and of itself doesn’t mean that the sender has any personal knowledge of you at all. I don’t know if that’s reassuring. Their emotional state is definitely cause for concern, but I wouldn’t let the data itself cause too much concern. If that makes sense.

  10. K.D. wrote:

    Don’t alter your routine

    Don’t worry. There is a great shoe sale going on and nothing keeps me away from shoes. 🙂

  11. Sarah wrote:

    It sounds like the second letter was meant to use these things to intimidate you, but that data in and of itself doesn’t mean that the sender has any personal knowledge of you at all

    You are correct about this but I can’t tell you why I know this to be true at this point.

  12. I would like to know where Mars Hill Seattle, Tim Challies and 9 Marks stand on this. After the fuss that Tim Challies made about a DDOS attack…is he going to be silent about a physical threat and/or stalking?

  13. dee wrote:

    K.D. wrote:
    Don’t alter your routine
    Don’t worry. There is a great shoe sale going on and nothing keeps me away from shoes.

    🙂

  14. On the plus side Steve Carlson could write a book called "Humility" and talk about how he is doing better than he deserves. He'd be in good company! 😛 Then he could go on the Celebrity Gospel circuit and sell books, books, books, and support the Reformed Industrial Complex.

  15. Praying, and hoping that you have brought this to the attention of police–really. Don’t keep this in the church/faith/blog world–Please.

  16. So sorry to hear this. Prayers and support from this end. Threats like this must be reported and people like this must be stopped. There is no excuse for causing this kind of stress; this is criminal bullying.

  17. Disturbing and depressing. So sorry you must endure this, Dee. Anyone who truly valued human life as Christ does would never terrorize another person like this.

    Sigh.

    FORCE and FEAR are happily employed by those who believe TRUTH is not a product of ideas but of violence.

    That should speak volumes about what these people believe.

  18. Sorry this is going on Deebs 🙁 It is a bit troubling that these people are threatening you for nothing, as you're not doing anything illegal. But they could find themselves in trouble for threatening you. AND they think they are doing something good/helpful?!?

  19. @ K.D.:

    Dee & Deb are numbered among a dwindling band of true gunslingers in a world that has moved on and not for the better.

  20. Ken J Garrett wrote:

    Don’t keep this in the church/faith/blog world–Please.

    We agree. This is a threat that said author claims will happen “soon.” I am not an expert in understanding which emails are serious and which ones are not. I know the police are experienced in this area. Do not worry-this is being reported.

    And we will make sure that the police have copies of the posts that I think are related to this. Mark Driscoll and John Catanzaro’s names, along with the stated names of those who threatened us, are about to be known by the deputies in Wake County. What a “Gospel” witness that will be!

  21. dee wrote:

    K.D. wrote:
    Don’t alter your routine
    Don’t worry. There is a great shoe sale going on and nothing keeps me away from shoes.

    “There’s Nikes and there’s Guccis
    And these other designers, too —
    It’s gonna take six hundred feet
    To fill Imelda’s shoes!”
    — Dr Demento filk after the Phillipine Revolution in the Eighties

  22. We’ll be praying for you as well. If it gets to the point that either of you feel like you need a safe place to stay, let us know, our place is open. I’m sure plenty of other regulars here would also open their homes as well.

  23. dee wrote:

    And we will make sure that the police have copies of the posts that I think are related to this. Mark Driscoll and John Catanzaro’s names, along with the stated names of those who threatened us, are about to be known by the deputies in Wake County.What a “Gospel” witness that will be!

    Is Wake County where you are, or where MD and Catanzaro and their followers are?

  24. Argo wrote:

    FORCE and FEAR are happily employed by those who believe TRUTH is not a product of ideas but of violence.

    That should speak volumes about what these people believe.

    Whether the violence takes the form of a stalker’s threat, a curse of damnation, “I CAN BEAT YOU UP!”, bragging about throwing enemies under your bus, or HUMBLY(TM) with a chuckle-chuckle.

  25. Agree with others. Go to law enforcement now. They should be able to track the sender through the IP, ISP and other info in the e-mail header. Will be praying for you. I think anyone capable of making such a threat must be cowardly, desperate and a little unhinged. Best not to take it lightly.

  26. @ Bridget: I am frankly fed up with bullying in the church. I watched what happened over at Janet Mefferd's show with dismay. Thankfully, this blog does not accept advertisers and we are not in it for the money so they can't threaten to pull sponsors. This stops now.

  27. Argo wrote:

    Anyone who truly valued human life as Christ does would never terrorize another person like this.

    I agree. I wonder if he gets his teaching at Mars HIll?

  28. @ Deb:

    Deb I really would like to know what Mars Hill says about this. Likewise after how Tim Challies reacted to the DDOS comment what is his reaction to this? DDOD while bad is no where near threatening physically threatening a person. Maybe you guys can start counting the days before they acknowledge this behavior.

  29. dee wrote:

    Don’t worry. There is a great shoe sale going on and nothing keeps me away from shoes.

    Best reaction ever to internet threats ever. Sorry you’re going through this.

  30. Wow…just wow. You know, with Scientology, I’ve never been worried about stuff like this, because Scn has been content in the past to use the legal system as its shield to stand behind as it sued and harassed its critics. These days Scientology is much diminished and has to pick its foes to attack, as there are so many. I’m glad you’re going to the police over this; those e-mails are concerning. If they’re trolling, they’ve got sick minds; if they’re for real–yikes!

    And now for something totally off-topic but Dee and maybe Eagle will appreciate this: I had too much LDS this morning (a takeoff on Star Trek IV). The Mormon church is opening a new temple way out in Gilbert and an out-of-town friend wanted to go so we got tickets to the open house and went. There’s a lot I could say about it, but I will just comment on the HORDES of people who turned up at 8:30 am in the morning to tour a building. (And, I would imagine, all day and into the night, for good measure.) Seriously, I was expecting not so many people, it’s a work and school day, but good golly, lots of people, including some parents who yanked their kids out of school for the experience. When I left, I could see that there were overflow lots in use and people walking down Pecos Road to the temple. I also got a “moneychanger” pic (a sign of a pair of real estate agents on a sign advertising a house with a temple view and YOUR REAL ESTATE AGENTS FOR ETERNITY) just down the road from the temple. And no, totally not interested in LDS, thankyouverymuch.

  31. Deebs:

    Sorry you endure that kind of cr*p. Costly Grace.

    So will any of the ‘Christian’ evangelicals in the blogosphere condemn such despicable actions? If they do, can they do it without including “but….” in it?

  32. Letter to Steve:
    Dear Steve-o. Props to you bro for having your friend’s back.
    I’ve met D.P., thought I could give you a helpful description.
    While she’s in her 30’s she looks to be about 28. Five feet 10 inch of pulchritude. Blond hair, bouffant style, Irish green with an impish gleam. Pouty lips, best lips you can buy in Raleigh-Durham. She is, indeed, the quintessential trophy wife.
    You don’t have to worry too much about the trophy husband. While he did play Fullback for the Dukies, he’s thinned up since the days of weighing in at 245. Good news, he doesn’t carry a gun. Worrisome news, he’s very good with a scapel ( think Mack the Knife). He can cut you from sternum to pubes in one swift stroke. Hey, but he can sew you up to. There’s a plus side to his scapel skills.
    D.P. wouldn’t be caught dead out of the house without wearing her stilletos. Those things can hurt if you’re not careful.
    Hope this is helpful Steve-0. Remember, tall flashy blond with pouty lips. You can’t miss her.

  33. Hello Haters! 🙂 oh wrong person. For what it is worth, I live in Raleigh, N.C. My family has been here since forever. My youngest brother, Chris Dillon is an apellate court judge in town. He is well connected. I have many friends whose families practice law. So any nutcases out now know there are many resources available to Dee and Deb. By the way, when I use to change my brother’s diapers I would look. And yes he has balls and is a manly man. I think that is the language you speak. I know you guys will do the right thing and lay off the threats. Ann

  34. This is terrible. Driscoll also bears some responsibility for this, because he has built a personality cult around himself that gives people justification to act this way. This is what the followers of Perry Noble did to Dr. James Duncan, and how the followers of Jack Hyles responded to Robert Sumner and Victor Nischik. This is how some devoted followers of secular celebrities respond when they feel their hero has been slighted.

    Christa Brown has written on the hypocrisy of professing Christians who behave this way:

    http://stopbaptistpredators.blogspot.com/2011/10/breast-cancer-brings-thoughts-on-hell.html

    http://stopbaptistpredators.blogspot.com/2010/10/meanness.html

    You are in my prayers as well.

  35. @ Ann:
    Great laugh! Tell him to look for 2 women with cute shoes and determined expressions marching “as to war.”

  36. Praying, Deebs. The previous quote, “post evangelical wilderness”, I’d say can be more like a tiger in the jungle. Glad you’ve gone to the authorities.

    Southwestern Discomfort, where I live and where I have lived in another state, whenever a new LDS temple goes up, rich Mormons flock to live as close as possible to it. The hordes you referred to may have included the curious non LDS people, since once the temple is “sanctified” none of them will ever be allowed past the front parlor. However, you also may have witnessed half the Mormons in the state coming to pay their respects and give the appearance that LDS are that numerous in the environs of your county. They are all about colonization.

  37. Nicholas wrote:

    Expect nothing but silence from Driscoll and Challies on this.

    Why would they say anything? Only real Christians would stand up against intimidation. Besides, Driscoll’s one of the biggest practitioners of intimidation, in the name of his version of God, though, so it’s OK.

  38. I’m pretty new at this blog, so this is really shocking to me. I hope you have already gone to the authorities and are taking whatever measures necessary to protect yourselves. I’m so sorry. Just know that you must be near the truth to draw such a reaction.

  39. Dee and Deb, I’m so sorry. Yes, please contact the police. Indeed there are people who want the truth silenced at all costs, even among churches. Because I have spoken out about Langworthy’s child sex crimes at Prestonwood, my dad threatened me a few months ago saying he’s “going on the offensive” because “Amy’s hurt too many people for too long.” He’s referring to Langworthy, Neal Jeffrey, and Jack Graham I’m sure. I’m so thankful for you both. Stand strong and be safe. Proud to know you.

  40. dee wrote:

    Seneca “j” Griggs. wrote:
    Hope this is helpful Steve-0. Remember, tall flashy blond with pouty lips. You can’t miss her.

    You have just redeemed yourself. Best laugh of the day!

    wink

  41. Ann wrote:

    So any nutcases out now know there are many resources available to Dee and Deb.

    Looks like you’ve “struck oil”, as they say. I know you know how to handle stuff like this. I’m praying for you.

    In case you ladies desire a bodyguard or two, I have reliable and effective friends in East L.A. who would enjoy a vacay in beautiful NC. Just sayin’. 😉

  42. By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be known as the son of Pharaoh’s daughter. He chose to be mistreated along with the people of God rather than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin. He regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward. By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the king’s anger; he persevered because he saw him who is invisible.

    Just saying.

  43. I have dealt with criminals, mental health cases and substance abusers most of my adult life. I have learned to assume that ALL threats are credible until they are proven otherwise. Cowardly threats are not privileged communications nor do they somehow deserve anonymity. I strongly suggest that you 1) Report all these contacts to law enforcement and insist that they file official reports. Even if they choose not to act on your complaint there will be a record that can be produced at a later time if necessary. Document, document, document. 2) Let it be known that you will not allow these threats to go unnoticed – in other words that you will do whatever you can to expose these pitiful jerks. 3) Think seriously about your physical security. Might be time to get acquainted with someone in law enforcement for a little advice. Ask your lawyer about a protective Order.

    If these cowards get the idea they can run over you or intimidate you into silence you can be assured they will pull the same stuff on someone else.

    I love you guys even if we do not always see eye to eye. (I refuse to quote Voltaire but you get the idea)

  44. Hello, Jace and Steve. My name is Ann and I like your style and subtle manner. I think Dee and Deb have their hands full with their blog, but I would love to meet you. They didn’t offer your address or number so I can’t contact you directly. I am sure you check back to enjoy the fruits of your work. Maybe we could share some of our methods of intimidating people we hate. I grew up with four brothers so I have learned so cool methods . ( Like keying the car of someone who should have know that was your parking space). Maybe we can even start our own blog and pay all those haters back! Please let me know! Oh! My first comment posted was just a decoy to mislead Deb and Dee. I really don’t have a brother who is a judge, but I do have one named Bubba at the Wake County Jail. Maybe I can hook you guys up. All my love in Christ, Ann

  45. “Mark Driscoll and John Catanzaro’s names, along with the stated names of those who threatened us, are about to be known by the deputies in Wake County. What a “Gospel” witness that will be!”

    No kidding! But then, I’m not terribly surprised that anyone in Driscoll’s coterie would behave like this. I guess they’re going to show the world how to “Act Like Men” by threatening two women. Nice.
    Glad you’re taking it to law enforcement.

  46. Dee,

    We’ve actually met once at that place with the gigantic deck. It was a little more than a year ago. You knew I was from the blog, but I’m not sure if you knew my handle here. If you don’t remember, that’s okay. You obviously know and meet way, way more people than I do as a homeschooling mom, so it’s harder for you to remember them all.

  47. @ Jenny:
    I have always wanted an entourage to follow me around, headed by a guy named “Chooch” with a neck the size of a tree trunk.

  48. c wrote:

    I love you guys even if we do not always see eye to eye.

    I am glad we do not see eye to eye. I get very bored with myself and enjoy a good debate.

  49. Amy Smith wrote:

    my dad threatened me a few months ago saying he’s “going on the offensive”

    You know, one day when he is on his death bed and Jack and the others are not around, he may wish he had loved his daughter.

  50. HoppyTheToad wrote:

    We’ve actually met once at that place with the gigantic deck.

    I think I do know who you are. Are you talking about my incredibly hospitable friends who host all sorts of things at their house, including Bible studies? If so, I do know who you are. Does your first name start with “T?”

  51. @ dee:

    Hey Driscoll has his bodyguards I guess this means know you will too!! When am I going to hear a story about a machuette? 😉

  52. Praying for your own safety from the unhinged. Anyone who would be threatening like that is far from a Christ-follower, imo.

  53. Dee and Deb:

    What C said above is good advice.

    It takes time to get a concealed carry, but you ought to be able to pick up a good shotgun before the stores close tonight. Only halfway kidding!

    I so admire you ladies courage and tenacity. Hang in there.

  54. Steve, I have shared lunch with Dee and Mr. Dee two different times. You are looking for a very petite woman, perhaps just under 5' tall, maybe 100 lbs or so, usually wearing those 4" spike heels. Drives a little sports car or she couldn't see over the wheel. Long blond hair, down almost to her waist. Almost a Dolly Parton look alike, just not quite so buxom. When she is wearing her concealed weapon, it really isn't concealed unless she is wearing a loose jacket or sweater. Likes to wear leather and lots of heavy duty jewelry. You could not miss her in a crowd. Just be careful, she has many friends who can hit the center of a target at 100 feet, repeatedly.

  55. @ Southwestern Discomfort:
    Somehow that scenario you described does not surprise me. My fiance lives in the heart of mormon-land and I am moving out there this summer after our wedding. Any tips you or Eagle can give me on dealing with this group and their tactics would be much appreciated. Dee has my email and can put you in touch with me.

    Dee, might I suggest a restraining order if your local sheriff’s office has not already suggested it? I am so sorry you and your family are going through this. I am always amazed just how afraid people are of the truth. You and Deb are much loved here.

  56. Dee, Praying for you and Deb here, both of us. Hope all is well. Hope the SO has responded to your contacts with them. Since the threat came locally, NC law will apply. It is possible, if the email went across state lines (via the internet), that a federal statute could still be involved. Also be careful about your mail and any odd shaped or unexpected packages or envelopes. And alert your postman and the local post office that you have received an email threat containing your address.

  57. This is horrible :(. I don’t comment often, and I don’t agree with a lot of the views expressed here, but I read every day and I have a lot of respect for both of you. I can’t fathom how someone could think it’s acceptable to make a threat against another person like this. I would be rattled, too, and I’m glad you’ve gone to the authorities. I don’t pray anymore, but I’m sending good thoughts your way. Be safe, and stay strong.

  58. RB wrote:

    However, you also may have witnessed half the Mormons in the state coming to pay their respects and give the appearance that LDS are that numerous in the environs of your county. They are all about colonization.

    Colonization? Like Doug Wilson?

    Back on topic, well, kind of…

    You know, there are nonlethal rounds for shotguns that shouldn’t kill someone but will make them wish they were dead for a while. And there’s nothing like the sound of a pump action shotgun to make someone reconsider whether they really want to break into that house.

  59. Dee & Deb, This ticks me off……deep breath to control language….. Okay – I'm glad you have reported it.

    If you feel like visiting Western Colorado….. Praying for your safety and peace of mind.

  60. Nancy wrote:

    It takes time to get a concealed carry

    Hey, we are two ladies in the South. We both have concealed carry permits.

  61. Been out for the day and evening and just got back to read this. Good grief!

    Odds are good that “Steve Carlson” is all hat and no cattle, but the authorities will (hopefully and prayerfully) make the right call. Be safe, be strong and carry on.

  62. I read a lot, I don’t comment much, but I read a lot.

    Praying for your safety tonight. Scary.

  63. First, Dee & Deb, I’m so sorry this has happened. I stand with you. Hope you go directly to the authorities.

    Second, the person/s behind this must have missed the part of the Bible that tells us to love others and not to take revenge (even if it is only a perceived

    Third, it always amazes me that a little inquisitive investigation seemingly pokes a sleeping monster. Responses like this one only serve to open our eyes to look and see what more there is to this story.

    My own story includes a situation that should have been resolved in minutes, but instead lead to a 15 month game of intimidation and shunning. I had no idea going into it that I was touching on something far larger than I ever imagined. It cost myself and my family plenty, but I’d do it all over again. I couldn’t live with myself had I remained silent. In the end, many people were warned and many were encouraged that they were not alone.

  64. I just saw this now and had to let you know I’m praying for the safety of you and your family. This is just unbelievable, yet such a tell-tale sign of our era. May He protect you all — always.

  65. Dee, you must decide in advance and not hesitate: If you have the weapon in hand, and he shows up (you should be able to get a picture by now) at your place, and is in sight. First call the police. Second, if he comes to your house or approaches you when you are out. You must immediately use the weapon. Do not delay. It must be instant. He has threatened you with bodily harm and you must be prepared to defend yourself and your family. Shoot and shoot again until he stops.

  66. If possible, stay in the house if you know he is around. But if he comes to a door or window, and begins to break in, shoot through the door or window.

  67. dee wrote:

    Nancy wrote: It takes time to get a concealed carry Hey, we are two ladies in the South. We both have concealed carry permits.

    Yup

  68. I’ve had to protect my self and family from intruders. It is a part of life no matter what country one lives in.

    There is a difference between good and evil. Does your husband know about these things? Is he available 24/7 for you and family protection. He has told me to beware of what I put on Facebook and blog sites………..

    Pray that you can gain strength and careful wisdom in these matters.

  69. As a person who lives in the Seattle area, this is disgusting and embarrassing to me. I am praying for your safety! Keep up the good work and don't let these thugs intimidate you.

  70. If there is one guy who fits the bill for Matt. 7:2-23, it’s Driscoll:

    On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

  71. Praying for you. i just followed links the other day and found this website. i was being pressured to join a fairly new big church where i live and i wanted to check it out because i had never heard of acts 29. Thank you thank you. this church is just a clone of mars hill..they boast of all the personal traing they get from mark because its near here, and all people see is a shiny outside of deception. i might have fallen for it had i not found your website. i thank the Lord Jesus for you all.i ask His personal intercession for you. amen

  72. Those physical descriptions should definitely help Steve out. But no-one has mentioned Dee’s trained attack dogs. She has 3 Steve – massive drooling brutes who live to protect their Mistress. Just the sight of one of these beasts is enough to strike fear into the heart of the manliest of men. Don’t say you weren’t warned.

  73. dee wrote:

    @ Bill Kinnon:
    We just got some information that he may have a history and I am officially concerned.

    ————
    Keep your weapon on you. Meanwhile we will pray the police will catch him.

  74. I’m praying for your safety. They have taken despicable to a whole new low. Good move putting it out there, names and all. Evil has a much harder time working in the light than it does in the dark.

  75. formerly anonymous wrote:

    Good move putting it out there, names and all. Evil has a much harder time working in the light than it does in the dark.

    That is exactly why I did this. I am copying all sorts of things from this blog so that the police will have a full picture of what is going on.These people showed up because of several posts. That means it involves Mars Hill: Mark Driscoll and John Catanzaro and well as their followers/patients.

    We will give the police ALL of our information, emails, etc. It is time to stop this thuggery that masquerades itself as “authentic manhood.” This is a credible threat and it is a felony in NC. To top it off, it came over the internet so it has federal implications as well.

    And there is more that I can’t even say.

    In case the “boys of Seattle” are reading, you know there is more and that is being reported as well.

  76. Beakerj wrote:

    Dee’s trained attack dogs. She has 3 Steve – massive drooling brutes who live to protect their Mistress. Just the sight of one of these beasts is enough to strike fear into the heart of the manliest of men. Don’t say you weren’t warned.

    Lilly Petunia and Tulip are grateful for this accurate description of their prowess!

  77. @ Lin:
    They will catch him. It appears he may have done this stuff before. What we want to know is this. Who egged him on? I wonder if they are continuing to encourage cage fighting nights at certain churches?

  78. dee wrote:

    @ Mara:
    Great line. “I am in a prayer group with the DA, I’m a member of the NRA and I’m packing….”

    I hadn’t watched Mara’s Youtube clip, because I’m browsing at work – for shame! – but is it sad that I immediately recognized what movie that quote comes from? 😮

    Here’s hoping for a good outcome – that Mr. Bullypants slithers back into the hole from whence he came and is never heard from again.

  79. dee wrote:

    and I’m packing….”

    This was the only part of that line that I could remember from that scene. But it jumped into my head once I saw the bit about you and Deb having concealed carry permits.

  80. sam wrote:

    They boast of all the personal training they get from mark because its near here, and all people see is a shiny outside of deception.

    Thank you so much. That means a lot. Our goal is to get the information out there and let the readers make their own choices.

    Jesus told us that he is the Truth. Truth matters in the faith. We must tell the truth about ourselves and not hide it in order to “get people to join” or to stealth takeover a church as a pastor.

    In this situation, all we did is ask questions about the alleged claims of Catanzaro. We called the NIH, Dana Farber, Dr Ken Anderson, NeoBioLab, and the Multiple Myeloma Research Foundation and asked a simple question “Is this true?” and we got an answer.

    Why did we do it? We thought the claims appeared over the top. Had we called these institutions and found out that he was a top researcher in the country (and make no mistake about it, anyone affiliated with Harvard and the NIH is a top researcher) we would have written a post corroborating it.

    Instead of threats, why don’t they contest the answers? It is curious. We have not received ONE comment saying that the NIH, DFCI, et al were wrong or telling us something that wasn’t true.

    Instead, we got a couple of folks who said that the Health and Wellness building wasn’t as expensive as it looks and someone who said that Catanzaro has healed tons of people with absolutely no evidence.

    However, not one reader contested our information. Anyone is welcome to do so on this website so long as they do so in a semi respectful manner. (We also appreciate humor).

    Now look at where this is going. The authorities will get involved and this will highlight, even more, the problems that have been uncovered. Good night!

  81. @ Barbara Roberts:
    You know, I think it is highly appropriate to have a domestic violence expert be on our side. Any person who threatens another person for simply reporting what they were told, has a deep seated problem.

    You are the expert so can you answer this? Could the person who threatens violence to others also be involved in domestic violence and buss?

  82. Jaysgirl84 wrote:

    As a person who lives in the Seattle area, this is disgusting and embarrassing to me.

    Thank you. I visited your fair city a few years ago. Besides it’s inherent beauty, I took note that there are coffee shacks on every corner. I got to wondering…perhaps this guy is drinking too much caffeine?

  83. @ William Birch:
    Thank you so much. Truth matters. Instead of answering the obvious issues surrounding Catanzaro’s bio, thugs threaten. I guess,, this time, we have stumbled across a really inconvenient truth.

  84. @ An Attorney:
    Ah, Dolly Parton…a favorite of mine. When asked how she felt about being called a dumb blond, she replied, “I am not dumb and I am not a blond.” A woman after my own heart.

  85. dee wrote:

    They will catch him. It appears he may have done this stuff before. What we want to know is this. Who egged him on?

    Because of what I’ve learned about the *systems* of abuse over the years, I realize perpetrators of spiritual abuse rarely act in full isolation. There are typically enablers of one sort or another who keep the perpetrator’s abuse of power/authority propped up. These enablers usually show some riff on the range of roles from active henchman who carry out the perpetrator’s explicit or implicit wishes (and thus provide a shield of plausible deniability for the abuser to hide behind) to the passive excuser who sees something evil going on but says nothing. At least in terms of moral and ethical responsibility as I see it, all of these “side people” share in the perpetrating and perpetuating of abuse.

    But what about legal responsibility? Dee’s asked a very relevant question in her comment: Is there anyone who has actively egged on or passively endorsed threats of intimidation and/or violence? And given that at least one of the particular threats of violence posted about here could be a felony, what are possible criminal implications for anyone else who’s given active or passive support/encouragement/enablement to the threatener(s)?

    Is there someone reading this who has legal/police background and could comment on laws that could apply to such peripheral people? Does it make a difference to their legal/criminal status whether the threat is or isn’t carried out? If there were a criminal trial held for someone who makes a threat of violence, what legal involvement might enablers expect for themselves in the charges and/or court case?

  86. Well. Once again, a couple of idiots (who hid behind the door when God was passing out brains) have turned nasty.
    Steve sounds scary as anything, & I am VERY glad you have taken this seriously, and contacted authorities.
    Jace is more typical. [Any fool knows that, given a choice between Spam and 3-day-old carp (wink,wink, nudge, nudge), even the vegans among us would choose the Spam].
    Prayers for your protection, dear ladies…..

  87. Probably whoever put this guy up to this is starting to be sorry already that he got involved with this loose cannon.

  88. Of course we don’t know who sent the threat, but hopefully they will be caught. Could be a Mark Driscoll hero worshipper,someone stirring things up against Driscoll and Cantanzaro or a random person who happens to read the posts etc. Could be anyone.

    But what we do know is that if leaders such as Mark Driscoll encourage violence (even symbolically) by saying things such as quoting his martial arts friend concerning what to do with people who oppose him – “His answer was brilliant … ‘I break their nose’” – then perhaps we shouldn’t be surprised if his followers might see this a red light to threaten people. Therefore, it is entirely plausible there is some association, be it indirect. This is a problem, amongst others, that Mark Driscoll creates for himself.

  89. dee wrote:

    @ Mara: Great line. “I am in a prayer group with the DA, I’m a member of the NRA and I’m packing….”

    Yep, my hubby signed us up for a lifetime membership in the NRA.

  90. So while this is going on let’s not lose the opportunity to remind the world about the power of women.

    Remember the pioneer women of the westward push of civilization in this country? Wow.

    Remember what the women of the old south did during and after that war in which Miss Scarlett so distinguished herself? It’s called rising to the occasion.

    Take a look around at the single moms, including those who were abandoned and left to “solve it” and see the herculean task they have and the success of so many in that situation. Tough, just pure T tough.

    If anybody wants to threaten somebody for something, it is not smart to choose a woman to threaten. You can’t tell by looking what may be behind the mascara and what sort of person it may be who is standing in even the craziest looking shoes.

  91. I would call your local domestic violence center, because they will have loads of suggestions or recommendations for your safety. It goes without saying why they would have experience in that area.

    Sadly, Steve Carlson just announced to the world that he is mentally unbalanced. That he is not safe to live in the world, but needs to be a mental facility.

    Driscoll and the rest of them aren’t going to say boo. They are good at preaching to the choir. They have also shown in the past they aren’t reliable when it comes to backing up their words with actions. They couldn’t handle it with Mahaney after all.

    Driscoll may have been deceived by this doctor, and yet admitting it? (gasp) may make him look ‘eve’ like, and he just couldn’t have that. That worldly ego tends to pop up more than he would like no doubt.

    You both are very brave by allowing the bullies emails to air on the internet, and more people should do that. Something tells me Janet Mefferd got the same treatment, and backed down. Its not an easy thing to do, so that is no slam or anything.

    Remember God is with you in your quest for truth!

  92. @ Barbara Roberts:

    Great to hear from you Barbara! I am remembering the first time I saw you in the RDU airport when Dee and I picked you up. We so enjoyed spending time with you.

    Hope all is well 'Down Under'.

  93. Hannah Thomas wrote:

    Something tells me Janet Mefferd got the same treatment, and backed down. I

    I believe this to be the case as well but obviously she can’t talk about it and we have no proof.

  94. Dee and Deb, I echo the sentiments of many here when I say how sorry I am that you are going through this. I also hope that you have positive experiences with law enforcement and feel supported and believed!

  95. Just in case this point wasn’t clear from my earlier post–I never had to worry about the kind of threats Dee and Deb have received when I tangled with Scientology. Even today, Scientology cloaks its harassment in legal terms (i.e., in the Monique Rathbun case, they followed her every footstep because it’s a First Amendment issue and they were protecting their trademarks). I never had to worry about anonymous threats. The threats I got were usually announced by certified mail, Fedex or, in one case, delivered by three process servers who scared the you know what out of me. All very legal.

    I believe people have given you really good suggestions, and I especially know, Dee, that your three huge dogs (Bruiser, Mauler and Killer) will take good care of their mistress.

  96. The dark, seamy underbelly of the evangelical circus — I’m thankful the two of you have the strength and courage to go where most of the “manly men” fear to tread. And I pray the Lord keep you, protect you, encourage you and bless you with great joy.

  97. brad/futuristguy wrote:

    At least in terms of moral and ethical responsibility as I see it, all of these “side people” share in the perpetrating and perpetuating of abuse.

    And they get a reward out of it — the ego-boo of being the Friends and Associates of The Great Man. Everyone sucks up to the biggest bully. (And when your perfectly-parsed theology makes God just The Biggest Bully of all…)

  98. dee wrote:

    We will give the police ALL of our information, emails, etc. It is time to stop this thuggery that masquerades itself as “authentic manhood.” This is a credible threat and it is a felony in NC. To top it off, it came over the internet so it has federal implications as well.

    And there is more that I can’t even say.

    In case the “boys of Seattle” are reading, you know there is more and that is being reported as well.

    Just keep us posted as best you can.
    This is the Former Confederate States (with its red state attitude tradition), you and hubby are packing, the cops (and maybe the Feds) are now involved.

  99. My guess is “Jace” won’t SPAM your email because he doesn’t seem the type that would understand what “SPAM your email” means.

    Pretty sure “Steve Carlson” is shaking in his boots right now waiting for the police to knock on his door. If he’s not, he probably should be.

  100. dee wrote:

    Something tells me Janet Mefferd got the same treatment, and backed down. I
    I believe this to be the case as well but obviously she can’t talk about it and we have no proof.

    Well, you know the thing about bullies.
    If their tactics work in one situation then they think it will work in the next, even if the situation is very different.

    They (may have been able to) intimidated one woman… Or I should rephrase that.
    The may have been able to get at one woman due to her situation of being dependent on sponsors.
    So they assumed that they could get at two other women, not realizing that there are no sponsors to get at, that both women have conceal and carry, and have lawyer and law enforcement friends who can stop this mafia game dead in its tracks.

  101. @ dee:
    Those were my thoughts, and if that is the case, then this links to Mark Driscoll, not that fake Dr. guy. But, business/financial-wise, it is the fake doc. that stands to loose far more from these posts.

  102. Just to sort of drag us back to John Catanzaro. Here’s the statement of charges (pdf) that the state of Washington filed against Catanzaro. What this guy was doing should chill your heart. He was basically just winging it as he went along with his unauthorized, unproven “vaccine.”

    https://fortress.wa.gov/doh/providercredentialsearch/CaseLaserFicheDocView.aspx?DocId=194852

    Maybe after reading that the Mars Hill lurkers will get why this is serious business. This guy Catanzaro was cowboying around and vulnerable people were taken advantage of.

  103. Thanks so much Dee and Deb for all your work exposing all these claims, connections and recording the damage these guys inflict on untold millions. Making the average Christian aware of just how grasping for power and conceited some of the leaders they admire are, is more valuable than most blogs out there that just rant against them, IMO. You expose the hypocrisy, the lies and deceit these guys use to cling to power. Thank-you, thank-you, thank-you. You are a great web resource – and a very unsettling one to them.

    Praying and praying the justice system will be on the side of those who have abided by the law, but expressed their opinions courageously and not, somehow, bought-out by adherence to the stardom curse all hollywood types seem to get.

  104. dee and deb

    These threats stinketh.
    And I think I’ll pray about these bullies, Enemies of Jesus, Enemies of Love.

    And – One way to pray is…
    Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you,
    and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; Mat 5:44

    But, there are some fine examples, in Psalms, on how to pray about bullies,
    those who spread fear, those afraid of “Truth,” those who want dee and deb to go away,
    those who threaten your kids, dee and deb.

    Psalm 5:10
    Destroy thou them, O God;
    let them fall by their own counsels;
    cast them out in the multitude of their transgressions;
    ALL those who send fear to dee and deb – And want them to go away…

    Psalm 6:8-10
    Depart from dee and deb, all ye workers of iniquity;
    for the LORD hath heard the voice of their weeping.
    The LORD hath heard dee and deb’s supplication;
    the LORD will receive their prayer.
    Let all the enemies of dee and deb be ashamed and sore vexed:
    let them return and be ashamed suddenly.

    Psalm 7:6
    Arise, O LORD, in thine anger,
    lift up thyself because of the rage of the enemies of dee and deb,

    Psalm 35:26
    Let them be ashamed and brought to confusion together
    that rejoice at the hurt of dee and deb,
    let them be clothed with shame and dishonour
    that magnify themselves against dee and deb.

    Psalm 40:14-15
    Let them be ashamed and confounded together
    that seek after the soul of dee and deb to destroy it;
    let them be driven backward and put to shame that wish dee and deb evil.
    Let them be desolate for a reward of their shame that say unto dee and deb, Aha, aha.

    Psalm 71:13
    Let them be confounded and consumed
    that are adversaries to the soul of dee and deb,
    let them be covered with reproach and dishonour that seek the hurt of dee and deb….

    Psalm 86:17
    Shew dee and deb a token for good; that they which hate dee and deb may see it,
    and be ashamed: because thou, LORD, hast helped and comforted dee and deb.

    Psalm 109:29
    Let the adversaries of dee and deb be clothed with shame,
    and let them, the bullies, those afraid of “Truth,” those who want dee and deb to go away,
    those who threaten your kids, dee and deb,
    let them cover themselves with their own confusion, as with a mantle.

    Thank You Jesus…

    Amen, and Amen…

  105. Dee

    The NCGA Statute Book covers “accessories before the fact”

    § 14-5.2. Accessory before fact punishable as principal felon.
    All distinctions between accessories before the fact and principals to the commission of a felony are abolished. Every person who heretofore would have been guilty as an accessory before the fact to any felony shall be guilty and punishable as a principal to that felony. However, if a person who heretofore would have been guilty and punishable as an accessory before the fact is convicted of a capital felony, and the jury finds that his conviction was based solely on the uncorroborated testimony of one or more principals, coconspirators, or accessories to the crime, he shall be guilty of a Class B2 felony. (1981, c. 686, s. 1; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 22, s. 6.)

  106. Southwestern Discomfort wrote:

    Just to sort of drag us back to John Catanzaro. Here’s the statement of charges (pdf) that the state of Washington filed against Catanzaro. What this guy was doing should chill your heart. He was basically just winging it as he went along with his unauthorized, unproven “vaccine.”
    https://fortress.wa.gov/doh/providercredentialsearch/CaseLaserFicheDocView.aspx?DocId=194852
    Maybe after reading that the Mars Hill lurkers will get why this is serious business. This guy Catanzaro was cowboying around and vulnerable people were taken advantage of.

    Thanks SD. The cover letter is all I see. The attachment, with the complaint, doesn’t seem to be at this link. Any other ideas of how to read it?

  107. @ Southwestern Discomfort:
    Having a little experience with the regulations governing research involving human subjects, as well as some experience with malpractice issues, I believe that Mr. Catanzaro is guilty of abusing patients and is a fraud. He should not be in a clinical practice, unless he is allowed to assist the medical personnel in a prison somewhere while serving a sentence approximating the remainder of his life.

  108. The one reason why most medical procedures, including injections, are not crimes of assault is “informed consent”. It is clear that Catanzaro’s patients did not have informed consent. Therefore his injections into them constitutes criminal assault, and he should be arrested, charged and prosecuted. In addition he has committed criminal fraud.

    My only question is whether Mr. Driscoll should be charged as a co-conspirator, given his endorsement, recommendation, and promotion of Catanzaro.

  109. @ Southwestern Discomfort:

    Maybe the Mars Hill lurkers will further understand that Mark Driscoll is also cowboying around! But he’s cowboying around with his followers’ spiritual well being, their health, and their money; basically the entirety of their beings. I pray they stop following Driscoll.

  110. Deb and Dee, I’m sorry to hear of these threats and am praying for you and your families.

  111. This is the tragic fallout of the rise of “celebrity pastors.” It mimics the vitriolic response of rabid fans of celebrities when unpleasant news comes out. Look at the defense of Woody Allen. Affections become misplaced like this within churches when people center their identity not on Christ, but on man.

  112. Amy Smith wrote:

    This is the tragic fallout of the rise of “celebrity pastors.” It mimics the vitriolic response of rabid fans of celebrities when unpleasant news comes out. Look at the defense of Woody Allen.

    Never mind Woody Allen — remember when Michael Jackson was (first) accused of child molesting and the kid settled out-of-court for six-seven figures in hush money? Story was that kid & family was being similarly harassed (including “MICHAEL! INNOCENT!” crank phone calls 24/7) until they declined to press charges.

  113. Bill Kinnon wrote:

    The dark, seamy underbelly of the evangelical circus — I’m thankful the two of you have the strength and courage to go where most of the “manly men” fear to tread.

    Lot of the Real Manly Men are very good at Beating Up on people who can’t fight back.

  114. Dee,
    We are all jacked up on caffeine around here! How do you think we cope with the gray rainy days;)

    Thank you. I visited your fair city a few years ago. Besides it’s inherent beauty, I took note that there are coffee shacks on every corner. I got to wondering…perhaps this guy is drinking too much caffeine?

  115. @ Mark:
    Let me back you up on this. That email from Jace arrived then he started makingover the top comments on the blog which I have saved. Then he started calling us. Several hours later, we received the gorilla email. Neither of these people have commented on this blog before and then they start showing up.

    Gotta go-big meeting with the law.

  116. An Attorney wrote:

    My only question is whether Mr. Driscoll should be charged as a co-conspirator, given his endorsement, recommendation, and promotion of Catanzaro.

    Would you not have to show that MD knew what he was doing and that he did it intentionally or perhaps carelessly? Somebody would have to show that MD could think and did think. I haven’t seen too much evidence of thinking in anything this man has done.

  117. @ Nancy:

    That would be an interesting defense. I would imagine a prosecutor would relish the ability to put MD on the stand and have him testify that he could not think, did not think, and was thus not liable for the damage he had caused to the patients who were abused as a result of his endorsements of Catanzaro.

    I think that a civil trial for damages would have to proceed any criminal trial to get that testimony admitted, but it would be an interesting case nonetheless.

  118. Dee/Deb

    Dee will be at greatest risk upon returning home from her meeting with the SO. Please be advised to be extra careful — observe for unusual vehicles in neighborhood, etc.

  119. It may have been a mistake to publish the emails without all of the identifying information. According to the yellow pages there are more than a dozen Steven Carlsons in the Raleigh area. Any of the innocent ones could issue a genuine warning of legal action for defamation.

  120. Some years ago,when a neighbor decided to make threats against me, I called the cops, & whilst awaiting their arrival,I sent out an email asking friends for prayer. One dear Catholic gentleman (who has since graduated into the Presence of God sent me this link:

    http://www.ourcatholicprayers.com/st-patricks-breastplate.html

    I highly recommend it to anyone in a scary place.
    God bless you and yours, and keep you from danger from “every cruel and merciless power that may oppose [your] body and soul”

  121. Dee and Deb, please keep us updated when you are able. Do you know the real identities of these sick ranters? If a public light could be shown on them, there could be more direct push-back. If there are consequences to their actions, they may not be so quick to harass others and think they can hide behind their anonymity. I hope you have a chance to introduce them to your three dogs! Ann

  122. Dee/Deb,

    I’ve been MIA for a while, but very sorry to hear about this. Is there any way that you can publicize this with Mars Hill or Challies or whomever else? The more people know about this and are forced to respond, the better. At least that is my non-legal opinion.

  123. Deb and Dee

    I really appreciate the site — It continues to be an education on the state of the global church, and so much of the nonsense that goes by the name of “church.”. Your approach to these threats is inspiring, and is a brilliant example of “biblical womanhood.”. Please, be encouraged. What you are doing is so vital.

  124. An Attorney wrote:

    @ Nancy:

    That would be an interesting defense. I would imagine a prosecutor would relish the ability to put MD on the stand and have him testify that he could not think, did not think, and was thus not liable for the damage he had caused to the patients who were abused as a result of his endorsements of Catanzaro.

    I think that a civil trial for damages would have to proceed any criminal trial to get that testimony admitted, but it would be an interesting case nonetheless.

    Driscoll claiming an inability to think (maybe even due to adrenal fatigue 🙂 ) is right up there with . . .

    Mahaney’s claims that God didn’t give him the grace to perceive (understand?) his sin and how it was affecting others.

    Both tend to put the blame for their actions on God, since both believe in a determinist God who controls every atom. I’m pretty sure neither explanation would fly as a legal defense 🙂

  125. You’re doing a great job, Dee and Deb! How many people are investigative Christian reporters? Digging deep and revealing the truth? It’s amazing how much the enemy is at work within the churches today. Praying you will be kept safe!

  126. Truth tellers, whistle blowers, investigative journalists/bloggers – they’re always demonized by those who have something to hide. Dee and Deb, you have my utmost respect.

  127. Shannon H. wrote:

    Just an aside but what’s with this calling a doctor by his first name?

    Well, there’s Dr Phil and Dr Ruth…

  128. If there is a direct, provable link between one or both of these e-mails and Mark Driscoll, I hope that you can reveal that sooner than later. I’d like to tweet at Driscoll and tell him to publicly and personally disavow these bullies if he sincerely does not agree with their behavior.

  129. @ Nancy:
    I understood your effort, and it was good. BTW, so my response was sarcastic as well. I have doubts that anyone could get MD into court on the matter of his possible liability for endorsing and recommending the (duck-speak).

  130. @ Bridget:

    “The devil made me do it” never works. So I have serious doubt that “God did it” or “God made me do it” would work either.

  131. An Attorney wrote:

    “The devil made me do it” never works.

    I’ve heard of the Twinkie Defense and the Affluenza Defense; let’s call that one “The Geraldine Defense”. (Because “What you see is what you get!”)

  132. I second, third and fourth everyone’s advice to go to the police.

    If you ask me, the second e-mail writer sounds completely in his right mind (unstable people don’t generally admit that they’re being unstable/unreasonable when they’re in the throws of emotion). I think he is trying to make himself sound as scary as possible. All the same, in his right mind or not, he could be dangerous either way.

  133. Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

    Shannon H. wrote:

    Just an aside but what’s with this calling a doctor by his first name?

    Well, there’s Dr Phil and Dr Ruth…

    I forgot about them, but Dr. John is hardly in their category of famosity. (Yes, it’s a word, I looked it up – lol!)

  134. sad observer wrote:

    If you ask me, the second e-mail writer sounds completely in his right mind (unstable people don’t generally admit that they’re being unstable/unreasonable when they’re in the throws of emotion). I think he is trying to make himself sound as scary as possible.

    If he’s genuinely scary and dangerous, the cops can take him down.
    If he’s just running a bluff (“Look how Scary I Am!”), you can call his bluff with the cops.
    Either way, you’ve got the advantage.

  135. dee wrote:

    Hannah Thomas wrote:

    Something tells me Janet Mefferd got the same treatment, and backed down. I

    I believe this to be the case as well but obviously she can’t talk about it and we have no proof.

    I hope the outcome of your current struggle will result in Janet and her team’s ability to go public with what happened to them.

    Prayers for your safety, and for all truth to come to light.

  136. Jean wrote:

    It may have been a mistake to publish the emails without all of the identifying information. According to the yellow pages there are more than a dozen Steven Carlsons in the Raleigh area. Any of the innocent ones could issue a genuine warning of legal action for defamation.

    Actually, no. Emails are not considered sourced information. I could write an email and claim that I am John Smith from Orlando. However, there are a bunch of John Smiths and they are all over the world. Saying that one is a particular John Smith from such and such an address could be defamatory. However, it is the one making the claim that is in trouble

    Also, one is not required to tell the truth in an email. I could make up stories that i saw fairies dancing on John Edwards lawn and I can’t be sued.

    Many Christians hear the words defamation and slander preached from the pulpit. Pastors claim this stuff all the time. But, legally (and surprisingly biblically-I wrote a post on this- one must prove the person is knowingly making up a lie against a particular person in order to cause harm to them.

    To which Steve Carlson in Raleigh was he referring and lying about? And id he do it to lie about that person. Also, just because he says he is in Raleigh, does not mean he is. He could be in Wake Forest, or more likely in the Seattle area.

    However, i did try to increase the knowledge and but his nome de plume from the email address but not his exact email. However, I do not want him being harassed by others (see how I am different than he is) unless they are the police.

  137. @ Bridget:

    That link should open up a PDF file in your browser. You may only need to page down or arrow right to see the next page (depends on your browser).

  138. Shannon H. wrote:

    I forgot about them, but Dr. John is hardly in their category of famosity. (Yes, it’s a word, I looked it up – lol!)

    There’s only one Dr. John I’m aware of, that’d be Dr. John the musician (of 1970s hit “Right Place, Wrong Time” fame).

  139. Southwestern Discomfort wrote:

    @ Bridget:
    That link should open up a PDF file in your browser. You may only need to page down or arrow right to see the next page (depends on your browser).

    I had to use my PC instead of iphone or ipad. Not sure why. Thanks!

  140. Something I need to get off my chest, as I feel this to be very important. There are a lot of good people that have posted, or had their stories told on this and other theological blogs. The people who have stepped up and told their stories on blogs like this are brave, courageous, and have good integrity.

    Dee…I remember the night before my baptism just having dinner with you and your husband. You both told me the story of what you endured in your Baptist Church. It blew my mind hearing it in such detail and disturbed me greatly. Hearing about what you endured, trying to leave, confronting your pastor over pedophilia, their dishonesty and deceit just shocked me. As I’ve come to know you I’ve realized that you are one of the purest, kindest, nicest people with the biggest heart I have met. You’re not looking for trouble, or out to pick a fight. You have a lot of love and concern for people like me and others who were deeply hurt by the frauds, and evangelical culture.

    I’ve also met a number of people from SGM Survivors at my baptism and I was blown away by the faith, kindness, and generosity many of these people had. They were not out to make trouble, be difficult, etc… Many of the people I met from SGM Survivors as well as the Deebs I would think would be ideal members of a church. They are responsible, hard working, ethical, loving, gracious, and kind. If the Deebs and the Happymom’s etc.. were the prevailing culture in evangelicalism would there really be any Richard Dawkins or Dan Barkers? I’d suggest no because many evangelicals needlessly create their own enemies.

  141. Eagle wrote:

    If the Deebs and the Happymom’s etc.. were the prevailing culture in evangelicalism would there really be any Richard Dawkins or Dan Barkers? I’d suggest no because many evangelicals needlessly create their own enemies.

    Well yes, they would still be around. Most atheists aren’t atheist because of other people, we’re atheist because we don’t have sufficient evidence for gods existing. Sure some of us have been hurt by Christians, but that seems to be merely the catalyst that starts the deconversion.

    I do agree that it would be nice if the face and tone of evangelical Christianity was more like our awesome blog queens. Then you’d definitely get less “Religion is child abuse” jeremiads and more discussion with less heat.

    Dee & Deb, good on you for not publishing the emails in full with IP’s and addresses. While it’d feel good to return the favor to these “Men”, you’re doing the better thing by getting the authorities involved. Cheering you on!

  142. dee wrote:

    Also, one is not required to tell the truth in an email. I could make up stories that i saw fairies dancing on John Edwards lawn and I can’t be sued.

    Though it would be KEWL if you saw that for real.

  143. Albuquerque Blue wrote:

    Well yes, they would still be around. Most atheists aren’t atheist because of other people, we’re atheist because we don’t have sufficient evidence for gods existing. Sure some of us have been hurt by Christians, but that seems to be merely the catalyst that starts the deconversion.

    Yeah, atheists would still be around, but the rabid anti-theists on a revenge-motivated Jihad would be much fewer.

    (Blue, do you remember the “Atheist time travel” two-parter from South Park? Where Cartman gets hibernated/thawed in an Atheist future where Atheists have split into several factions all in a “DIE, HERETICS!” holy war against the others? Any passionately-held belief system can go that route (or the Cult route), because (in the words of one of the Whole Earth Catalogs) “People are people and the world is full of tricks and twistiness yet undreamed of.”)

  144. @ Albuquerque Blue:

    Nooo…. I’m having issues with the Christian faith lately, but some of the stuff you cited, no. I read too much apologetics to say there’s insufficient proof of God and the like.

  145. Hi Dee and Deb, this is my first time commenting on your site, although I’ve been a reader here for a while. I admire the work you two do and have so much respect for both of you.

    I’m truly sorry this has happened, but it sounds like you are doing everything needed to address it

    I’ll close by saying this. I’ve had my share of arguments and disputes via email, but never have I ever been tempted to threaten physical harm on anyone…..and I don’t think I’ve ever had anyone threaten me physically over email. Both Jace and Steve are nuts, but it looks like Steve could be very dangerous. Keep us posted.

  146. As I was driving home from Dee's house this afternoon, I saw a rainbow and felt God was sending a message from heaven. 🙂

    Although I have not posted much in this thread, I have read ALL of the comments, and I am so touched by the outpouring of love and concern from around the world. Dee and I have felt your prayers, and we are so grateful for you.

    Have a wonderful weekend!

  147. Dr. Warren Throckmorton posts February 7th that he has received threats as well. "I do think Mr. Catanzaro should publicly condemn threats made with regard to coverage of his situation. I have emailed him and asked him several questions with no response."

  148. Dee and Deb,
    I’m just now getting caught up on this and am so sorry to read of this. I would really like to hear Piper on this since his most unwise endorsement of Driscoll catapulted MD into places he could have never reached on his own. In my estimation the word “Christian” means very little today. I am glad that Dr. Duncan has been in touch with you. The Nobles and Driscolls are using tactics that you would not expect from anyone, especially “Christians.” Dr. Duncan’s first hand experience, I’m sure, could be helpful to you. Hope you both have a most blessed weekend. KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!

  149. BD wrote:

    Dr. Warren Throckmorton posts February 7th that he has received threats as well.

    Who is Dr Throckmorton and what’s his involvement in this developing situation?

    (P.S. “Dr Throckmorton” sounds like the name of a Victorian scientist or Steampunk character. Very British, very Victorian.)

  150. Daisy wrote:

    @ Albuquerque Blue:
    Nooo…. I’m having issues with the Christian faith lately, but some of the stuff you cited, no. I read too much apologetics to say there’s insufficient proof of God and the like.

    Daisy, that’s fine with me. If you find sufficient evidence for yourself, great. I don’t, but infinite variety in infinite combinations is a good thing to paraphrase a pointy eared Starfleet officer.

  151. Pingback: Dana Farber Cancer Institute Issues Warning To John Catanzaro

  152. Is it possible in this day when folk seem so angry and irrational to turn the other cheek? Is it possible to do good to those who persecute you? I just finished Rachel Held Evans book, Evolving in Monkey Town, and she quotes Christ’s remarks ‘re this topic; some I had forgotten them Is it possible to really apply this to our lives?
    .

  153. @ Hanni:
    Hanni, your comment is rather cryptic. Are you suggesting that Dee and Deb and Warren should turn the other cheek? Not quite sure what you’re getting at.

  154. Hanni wrote:

    to turn the other cheek?

    What would you do if someone broke into your house, threatening to harm you or your children?

  155. Hanni wrote:

    Is it possible in this day when folk seem so angry and irrational to turn the other cheek? Is it possible to do good to those who persecute you? I just finished Rachel Held Evans book, Evolving in Monkey Town, and she quotes Christ’s remarks ‘re this topic; some I had forgotten them Is it possible to really apply this to our lives?

    If we’re going to prooftext “turn the other cheek,” then let’s remember that elsewhere, scriptures say:
    “For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Do you wish to have no fear of the authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive its approval; 4 for it is God’s servant for your good. But if you do what is wrong, you should be afraid, for the authority[a] does not bear the sword in vain! It is the servant of God to execute wrath on the wrongdoer.” – Romans 13:3-4

    I do not see how reporting potentially serious threats to law enforcement could ever be forbidden by the command to “turn the other cheek.” Hanni, you’re going to have to help me out here, because I may be just a bit dense…

  156. The Brits are behind you too – hopefully your local law enforcement officials will deal with these people, whoever they are and whatever motivated them.

  157. Dee and Deb….stay strong, please report this to the police and the proper authorities….praying for you both!!

    Oh, and enjoy your new shoes!

  158. Barbara Roberts wrote:

    If there is one guy who fits the bill for Matt. 7:2-23, it’s Driscoll:

    On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

    Amen, Barbara.

  159. Daisy wrote:

    dee wrote:

    Then he started calling us.

    He was calling you on the phone too??

    For phone calls, a nice man at the phone company told me: Go to the dollar store, & buy a cheap toy whistle. The next time you get such a call, blow it for all you’re worth right into the phone.
    The cops will be able to find him easily. He will be the big bully at the ER who staggered in with an upset stomach, a bloody nose & a complaint that his ear “popped” . (Hearing will return about the time he is hauled before a judge for a bail hearing…….).

    Why, yes, I am a cranky old Irish lady; 😉 what gave me away?

  160. I am praying for your safety. I am glad you reported this and and then showed us all the emails lest we forget how dangerous and costly it is to tell the truth. If you don’t have a conceal carry permit I would get one. Maybe Marky D. will loan some of his security guys to ya? LOL

  161. An Attorney wrote:

    My only question is whether Mr. Driscoll should be charged as a co-conspirator, given his endorsement, recommendation, and promotion of Catanzaro.

    Depends on how much ol’ Bee Jay is into Plausible Deniability.
    And in any case, “What Endorsements”?
    (Russian Bureaucratic CYA tradition: Never write anything down, erase all evidence, never admit to anything, and DENY EVERYTHING. IF IT’S NEVER WRITTEN DOWN, IT NEVER HAPPENED AND YOU CAN’T PROVE IT EVER DID.)

  162. @ Rebecca Lynn:

    Great to hear from you! Several years ago my hubby talked me into attending a conceal carry class with him. At the conclusion of the day we went to a shooting range, and I was a pretty good shot. We sometimes practice at our farm.  Dee also has her conceal carry permit.

  163. Josh wrote:

    I do not see how reporting potentially serious threats to law enforcement could ever be forbidden by the command to “turn the other cheek.” Hanni, you’re going to have to help me out here, because I may be just a bit dense…

    As I understand it, turning the other cheek has personal relationships in mind. A way of getting on with those around you in everyday life. Government on the other hand has been instituted by God quite literally for law and order, to deal with crime and serious wrong-doing. It quite rightly means we should not take the law into our own hands, but entrust it to those who are not involved who can enforce the law without prejudice, who deal with the matter objectively.

  164. Don’t discontinue broadcasting news about corrupt clergy. Persons of conscience need bloggers such as yourself and others to expose these corrupt clergy, so stand strong in the face of the bullying, and give the bullies their due.

    I am experiencing some of what you are experiencing, only the perpetrators tried hacking into my email account. I have hit a nerve, and have considered becoming silent. I can’t express much more except I agree with what everyone else has written, and that is contact your local law enforcement.

    So sorry for your experience.

  165. OK, I haven’t read the majority of comments here, but I think I’d be getting the police involved … immediately!

    I had an email sent to me at work threatening my life. I picked up the phone, called corporate security who then contacted local police and eventually the FBI. Was I worried? Not really, but then again the guy didn’t know where I lived.

    Call the cops!

  166. Dee and Deb,
    Thank you for the work that you do on this website. Your writings and discussions have done a lot to help me understand my own experiences growing up in a less than ideal church environment. The two of you are fighting a good fight, even if it is an uphill one at times. For every ‘critic’ you have, I’m sure there is someone like me that you have been a blessing to.