Remember an abused 9 year old girl in your prayers!
Occasionally, the two of us like to prepare dinner and even sleep. Last evening, after dinner, I received an email from an anonymous person. They claimed to have included a statement from CrossWay Church to the congregation. They also claimed that this statement proved that Marge Sweigart was wrong about some of her statements.
I read the statement and was quite surprised because I believed that the statement appeared to confirm Marge's recounting of the events leading to our previous post. Thinking I was tired, I called Deb and asked her to read it. She, as well, felt that the statement was a confirmation of many things and even added some disconcerting information about the identity of the child in this matter. We decided to sit on this information over the weekend and try to get confirmation. We were deeply concerned that the email was not true.
An individual who goes by the name "sharklasers" then reprinted this alleged statement in our comments section. When I said that I was concerned because the statement admitted to some awkward omissions on the part of the church, (s)he became irritated and questioned my reading comprehension.
At this point I decided to go to bed. I woke up this morning and was shocked to find out what had transpired during the night. Not only did "sharklasers" comments surprise me but we received a report that some ugly comments have been flying around FaceBook.
Therefore, I will post the statement at the end of this post. If this statement is in error, I would ask that anyone from the church contact me and the statement will be removed.
I also want to make one thing clear. I do know the identities of the persons who are referred to in the 3rd person. Their identities lend credibility to Marge's statement. However, both Marge and I were concerned about the blow-back on the part of some in the church and decided to protect their identities. Given the report of some comments flying around FaceBook , it is obvious our concerns were legitimate.
Here are a few thoughts:
- Davis took "indecent liberties" with his own 5 year old daughter. He will not be able to see her until she is an adult. If this is a not-so-serious offense, then why can't he see her, say in 5 years? This is a grave offense, one that will impact the child for the rest of her life. She was betrayed by her father.
- A few counseling session with a pastor who is not an expert in sexual compulsion is hardly a cure-all for such an disorder.
- Premarital counseling for the marriage between a convicted incestuous sex offender and a second wife is troubling on many levels. They married approximately one year after the offense was committed. ONE YEAR! I will leave thoughtful people to understand the serious nature of marrying a man who could "take indecent liberties" with a 5 year old daughter.
- They admit that the entire congregation was not informed,that Davis served as an usher until this past October, that security was not informed until this past summer (3 years later), and that the children's ministry was not informed. Remember, the pastoral staff claims to have known about this since 10/09.
I don't get it. But, then again, I have never been immersed in the SGM culture. Perhaps this will serve as a sharp reminder that this is about the children first. There is a wounded, now 9 year old girl, out there, who deserves our prayers and thoughts. I wish the church leaders would have mentioned her in their missive. Why is it that the victims are often forgotten? Maybe Christians like the big "I was a pedophile and now I am cured and saved" stories. It sure sounds more glorious than the story of a little girl who will bear a life of pain due to this betrayal.
(Dee formatted the paragraphs and chose what to bold-3:56PM)
From Mickey Connolly Brothers and Sisters, Attached you will find information regarding a member of Crossway who is currently listed on the North Carolina Sex Offenders Registry. We are sending you this information at this time because we have been informed that a former member of Crossway has posted this information on a blog and has linked these blogs to her Facebook page.
While I find these actions reprehensible I recognize that this is the age in which we now live, and that as your pastors we need to serve you as these things occur. I trust as you read this account you will find that we have acted in a manner that first and foremost appropriately protects our children and secondarily, cares for a man who has committed a crime, is paying the price that society rightly demands but who also is now a brother in Christ that deserves the same grace, mercy and love that God has undeservedly and unreservedly bestowed on each and every one of us through the gospel.
In some ways I think this is a crucial moment in our life together. How we choose to respond to situations like this will speak loudly to our understanding of the gospel, community, love for our neighbors and our obligations as Christians regarding biblical speech. I type these words trusting that our response will be one that adorns the gospel and glorifies God because I believe with all my heart that that’s the kind of people we are. It is a privilege to serve as your pastor.
With affection, Mickey
//////////////
Attached document from Pastor Nick Swan March 7, 2013
Church Family, Kevin Davis, a member of Crossway, is a registered sex offender. Kevin and his wife, Jenny, have been attending the church since October of 2009. We are sharing this with all of you because a former member of Crossway recently participated in a blog post publicizing Kevin’s conviction and attendance at Crossway.
This post has since been linked to on Facebook and is making the rounds. We recognize in the internet age that news travels fast and often is not accurate. We also recognize that in the absence of information speculation often wins the day. Rather than waiting for all of you to come to us with questions, we would like to explain to the best of our abilities how we have sought to protect our children and care for Kevin and Jenny as members of Crossway.
Kevin committed a sexual offense against his daughter the fall of 2009. He was charged with a sexual offense October 3, 2009. He was already divorced from his first wife at the time of the offense and all contact with his daughter was immediately severed. Due to his crime and subsequent conviction it will remain severed until she is 18 years of age.
This offense did not take place at Crossway and was not committed against a child at Crossway. His offense happened before he was introduced to Crossway and was against his daughter.
David Clinard, a former member of Crossway, saw the news story about Kevin. Kevin was a former karate student of David’s and so David contacted Kevin to see how he was doing and asked if he would like to meet with a pastor. Kevin agreed to meet with me (Nick) and did mid-October 2009.
I immediately notified the other pastors and our administrator of my meetings with Kevin and of the charges against him. I met with Kevin and then with he and Jenny, who was then his girlfriend of 3 years. Kevin freely acknowledged his wrong doing and openly shared about his history and how his choices had led him to this sin.
I shared the gospel with them over several meetings. Both of them made professions of faith and began to attend Crossway on Sunday mornings during October/November of 2009.
Throughout the early stages of Kevin’s attendance he attended with Jenny and was required to sit with David Clinard or myself during the meetings. He arrived at the beginning of the service and left immediately after the service ended. He did not engage in any other church activities.
Starting in October of 2009 and for most of 2010 I met with Kevin and Jenny, counseled with him regarding his past, walked through pre-marital counseling with them and pastored them through Kevin’s criminal trial. He was convicted of taking indecent liberties with a minor in September of 2010. He was sentenced to 3 years of probation and a minimum of 10 years on the registered sex offenders list.
After the conviction and sentencing, we had a clearer picture of Kevin’s future and began to discuss what involvement at Crossway might look like for someone that has committed this crime. After consulting and being advised by lawyers who specialize in the area of sex offenders and church life, we entered into a covenant with Kevin. This covenant outlined how Kevin would be allowed to interact with others at Crossway.
It was also at this time that we began talking about the idea of allowing Kevin and Jenny to build relationships with others in the church by attending a Care Group. During the Spring of 2011 I approached David and Cheryl Elliott and asked them if they would be willing to have Kevin and Jenny join their group. We believed David and Cheryl were excellent candidates for taking on a unique situation like this. The group was relatively small and none of the children were young enough to need childcare, which eliminated the difficulties surrounding childcare. David and Cheryl agreed and so I visited the group and spoke with all of the adults in the group. I discussed the details of Kevin’s history with them. I explained to them the details of the covenant Kevin had signed and gave them copies of the covenant to read.
I expressed our desire to protect their children as well as the other children at CW. I also expressed our desire to allow Kevin and Jenny to integrate into church life in a meaningful but limited way. We believed that between the covenant limiting Kevin’s interactions with others, pastoral accountability, the accountability of his CG, and Jenny’s accountability, as well as the normal precautions that are taken to protect the children of Crossway, that we could allow Kevin and Jenny to begin engaging in a limited but meaningful way while protecting our children.
The Care Group agreed to have Kevin and Jenny join and they did so late Spring 2011. It was also decided at that time that if a new family with children sought to join the group that we would inform them of Kevin’s conviction and allow them to decide whether they wanted to attend the group. On three separate occasions families sought to join the group and each time we informed them of Kevin’s conviction.
Over the Summer of 2012 it was suggested that we notify the Security Team of Kevin’s conviction. The Security Team was taking over responsibility for monitoring children’s ministry and we thought this was a wise and reasonable precaution to take. They were informed late summer 2012.
One aspect of church life that Kevin served in that we would not repeat would be Kevin serving as an usher. Kevin and Jenny became members of Crossway June of 2010. Kevin began serving as an usher shortly thereafter. At that time a verbal commitment was in place limiting where Kevin could be, but not a written covenant. Pastors and our administrator (who oversees the ushers) were aware of Kevin’s history, but no one else had yet been notified. Kevin’s role on the team was limited to the upstairs, which he was free to be in, but we were unwise not to see that ushers are given a degree of trust that might have placed a child at risk.
A couple at Crossway approached us during Kevin’s tenure as an usher. They had seen his picture on the registered sex offenders website and were concerned that he was serving as an usher. We informed them of the restrictions we had placed upon Kevin and that we believed those were sufficient. They were satisfied with our approach.
However, in hindsight we believe we should have erred more on the side of caution. We regret this decision and would not make it again moving forward. Kevin served as an usher until October of 2012.
Another oversight was that we did not inform Bob and Julie Moore who oversee Children’s Ministry. Again, if we had it to do over again we would have informed Bob and Julie and will do so in the future if a similar situation arises.
Throughout this process we have sought to protect our children by strictly limiting Kevin’s involvement in the church while at the same time seeking to allow Kevin and Jenny to have a limited but meaningful Christian life at Crossway. By the grace of God, I believe we have done so.
How do we proceed? First, please show compassion and care for Kevin and Jenny. They have sought to comply with every request we have made of them since our first meeting. They have both walked humbly and openly throughout this process. They have shown every sign of genuine faith as they have continued to grow as disciples of Jesus Christ. I could not commend them more highly. They are a wonderful couple. If you do not yet know them, please get to know them. They are loved by their Care Group and all those who know them closely. They love God and are dearly love by God.
Second, in hindsight, there are things we would do differently. If you disagree with how we have chosen to handle this situation, please aim your frustration at us not at Kevin and Jenny or any other member of Crossway. We made the decisions and we are responsible for them.
Lastly, we recognize that this is not the only way to have handled this situation. We have had long and numerous discussions about how broadly to share this information along the way. We came down on a policy that we believed provided both real protection for our children and a limited but loving context where Kevin and Jenny could grow as disciples. That being said, we are learning as we go. We do not have all of the answers and we are open to hearing alternative ways to handle situations like this in the future. Obviously, given a topic of this magnitude a letter is insufficient to fully anticipate and answer all of the questions that you may have. Please know our commitment to hear your feedback and answer any and all questions you may have.
In grace, Nick, on behalf of the Pastoral Team
“We informed them of the restrictions we had placed upon Kevin and that we believed those were sufficient.”
LOL
Didn’t you know a signed “covenant” will produce godly behavior? Cynic!
@ TedS.:
I am reposting this from last night because I think it got pretty lost amongst sharklaser’s desire to try defend the indefensible actions of the pastors at CW.
This is my first post here, but I have been reading for over a year; around the time that Brent went public with his documents. I did not attend Crossway, but I am very close to some that have. It is also within a 5 minute drive from my house so I have a vested interest in what is going on in my backyard (especially as it pertains to registered sex offenders, as a mom of 2 gorgeous little ones). I also attended Desiring God church for awhile. For those that aren’t aware, that is a church plant from John Piper’s church in Minnesota. One of the pastor’s there was involved in a bible study with CJ Mahaney and they are incredibly friendly with Mickey Connolly. Praise God that we were forced to stay on the outskirts of that church due to health reasons. So when everything broke we were able to discern the craziness of that culture and hightail it out of there!
All of that to say, I just can’t be quiet any longer. There are so many crazy and illogical stances the pastors at CW are taking. That letter is incredibly upsetting as it just proves that protecting the registered sex offender took higher priority over protecting all of the kids that walk through those doors. Just a quick cursory look shows that in Mickey’s cover letter, he spent THREE words talking about protecting the children and FIFTY-ONE words were spent talking about protecting the registered sex offender! I was completely floored and horribly disappointed tonight as I was reading some facebook comments by John Morrison (a former pastor at CW – although he still attends and completely supports their ideology).
After defending CW’s actions of not informing parents because it was the parent’s responsibility to be completely aware of every single person’s face and name that enters the doors so they can check it against the sex offender registry, he then quickly tires of the logical backlash of responses he got, and offers this lovely comment. “Anyways, this is boring and fruitless now. Over and out.” I am sure the poor daughter that was abused by her father would not find this topic ‘boring’ nor any parent that is just finding out about this!!. It is amazing how anyone can take such a cavalier attitude towards this topic – much less in the wake of the lawsuits.
What will it take for these men to see that their ideology hurts people???
Oh…Tricky Sticky Mickey. He is so blinded by his own self righteous hubris that he cannot see the wonderful irony that forms an entertaining envelop around all these letters of his. The fact that he does not see it makes it even more hilarious.
Doing the effing pastor’s job of revealing the presence of a sex offender is “reprehensible”, but knowingly withholding this information from families in the church…that’s “the kind of people we are”. I love it! Thanks Tricky Mick…laughter is the best medicine.LOLOL!!
Steph
You are singing my song.
That letter is incredibly upsetting as it just proves that protecting the registered sex offender took higher priority over protecting all of the kids that walk through those doors.
@ Argo:
Let’s not forget that SGM insists that parents are responsible for their children (which I agree with). BUT now we have the leadership at this church saying that they didn’t think it was necessary for parents to know about a pedophile in the church. NOW, mind you, the leaders will decide what information you need to know to care for your children . . . (Is this standing in the sted? at its worst?)
Steph wrote:
I don’t think they care if their ideology hurts people.
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive … those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.” – C.S. Lewis
I have some pretty basic timeline questions that I’d like to ask as I try to wrap my head around what took place 4 years ago. If I am reading this correctly, then this man sexually abused his daughter on October 3, 2009. Then, just TWO(ish) weeks later in mid-October of 2009 he meets with Nick. Within another TWO(ish) weeks (October/November 2009) he and his girlfriend make professions of faith and begin attending CrossWay. So, within ONE MONTH of being all kinds of inappropriate with his own daughter he has a come to Jesus moment and is brought into the fold at CrossWay as a brand new follower of Christ. From what I read, it doesn’t appear that Nick gives specific dates, but it sounds as if pretty quickly after coming on board he then enters into pre-marital counseling with Kevin and his girlfriend!!
First of all, there is absolutely no way on earth that Nick (or anyone!) could be able to discern whether or not his come to Jesus moment was real and genuine and not just some further manipulation on his part in that short of time. (I am not judging whether or not that is the case as I don’t know him – I sincerely hope that it IS true)
It is beyond foolish and arrogant and ultimately just downright dangerous to simply take the word of a man that has just sexually assaulted his daughter TWO WEEKS PRIOR that he “has seen the light” without giving more time to see if there is evident fruit to back his word. To then shield that man from the congregation is sickening. What they have completely failed to address is that this man did not become a registered sex offender until SEPTEMBER 2010- a whole YEAR after this incident took place and a whole year of being involved in the community at CW. According to the logic of the pastors, it is the responsibility of the parents to know every face on the sex offender’s registry – yet there is no way for ANY parent to have recognized that face as he wasn’t convicted of this crime until 2010. Yet, the pastors had a confession directly from Kevin’s mouth from way back in 2009. THEY were the only people that had availability to that information so it becomes 100% their onus to impart that knowledge for the safety and well-being of the families at the church.
I have a question. Looking at “THE NORTH CAROLINA SEX OFFENDER & PUBLIC PROTECTION
REGISTRATION PROGRAMS” found here: http://www.ncdoj.gov/sexoffenderpublication.aspx
It is unlawful for any such restricted offender to be:
(a) On the premises of any place intended primarily for the use, care, or supervision of
minors. This includes, but is not limited to, schools, children’s museums, child care
centers, nurseries, and playgrounds.
(b) Within 300 feet of any place intended primarily for the use, care, or supervision of
minors if the place is located on the premises of a place which is not intended primarily
for these purposes.
(c) At any place where minors gather for regularly scheduled educational, recreational, or
social programs.
Is it possible that CrossWay is breaking the law by allowing a convicted sex-offender on the premises? I’m not an expert in law. I just always had an understanding that registered sex-offenders were not supposed to be around areas where children gather. It seems to me that even the law takes these matters more seriously than some churches do.
So here are the marching orders in part:
There are two things that leap out at me. Nowhere does Pastor Nick Swan (or Pastor Mickey Connelly) suggest prayer for the victim or for her mother. And second.
Pedophiles are nice people. They have to be. They are regular, nonthreatening guys. They have to be able to please people; which means saying what people want to hear. I am or have been personally acquainted with at least four of them and one of those is a member by marriage of my extended family. I have known the latter since he was a very young man. He is nice. But he bears the unspeakable burden of being sexually attracted to children. As it happens, he has never acted on his urges (to my knowledge) but was caught with child pornography. As I say, they are nice guys. And that is COMPLETELY irrelevant, Pastor Nick. Pastor Nick, by the way, appears to be one of the baby pastors, and is a product of the Pastor’s College with no other training.
Wow! Reading this and the post over at JBX Watchdog, it is seriously making me reconsider even attending a church. I’m speechless at the cover-ups that are coming to light, and how many have already stated, the higher-ups are putting the priority of protecting the offender over the families.
@ Bridget:
Bridget…yes it is. It is standing ON the congregation. Not fit them.
@ Argo:
@ Bridget:
I meant “for” them.
Deb,
Hey,
Thankz for you consistent care of the body of Christ, here at Wartburg.
It means a lot.
Would you consider asking your readers how many have been help’d by Wartburg Watch.
Why?
It remains to be discovered by Wartburg’s various detractors, how many kind folks have been helped by -not only Wartburg, but also by those who kind caring souls that regularly comment here, and converse, and pray, etc.
Letz look at the hard facts:
Many kind folks have lost there faith.
Many are on the verge of loosing their faith.
Many are dropping out of the orthrodox church scene.
Sure, folks are in the process of reconsider their even attending a brick and mortar church service.
We hear it all the time.
I don’t think documentedly abusive organizations like SGM even understand their contribution to this sort of sad regression.
ATB
Sopy
—
Please pay attention to this great quote by our dear friend Mickey Connelly. Plus, I like to communicate by quoting other people anyway. It’s refreshingly passive aggressive. Follow my Tweets and see for yourself!
BeenThereDoneThat wrote:
My guess is that churches are not specifically mentioned because of constitutional issues regarding freedom of religion and denying someone the legal right to attend a church. So if that is true, and convicted pedophiles are legally prohibited only from secular locations where children are present, where are they going to go if they are still looking for children to molest? Think about that when you’re considering how to handle convicted child molesters in your church.
Sopy,
Thanks for your kind words. Looks like you just asked on our behalf.
Just wait til you read Dee’s story today. We are helping a brother in Christ down in Dallas.
Truth is stranger than fiction…
Dee, The letter is authentic, except for some formatting and bold face.
I really don’t know whether to believe that the pastors are simply naive or if they are untrustworthy themselves.
Weren’t we all taught by our parents to avoid friends with bad reputations lest we became gulity by association?
A little example from my own parenting. When one of my daughters was 16 years old, she had a few friends that were rumored to be shoplifting. One day she wanted to go shopping with them. I told her that I was not forbidding her to go but if any of those freinds shop lifted, got caught, and the whole group was halled off to ‘juvie’ I would not come bail her out, no matter how much I wanted to believe that she was innocent. I said that if she wanted to do any other activity with them, like bowling or something, I would be fine with that. She chose never to ‘attend’ the mall with that group again.
I say that the pastors are just fine being friends and having church with repentant pedophiles… but NOT IN the local church. Have church with them somewhere else… this doctrine that says every Christian should be meeting at a local church regardless of their heinous criminal past or heinous reputation is ludicrous. It just makes the whole bunch look suspicious. Who else are they all covering up for.
@ JeffT:
You are right about the freedom of religion issue. Check this out: http://www.christianitytoday.com/women/2010/january/nc-court-upholds-sex-offenders-right-to-worship.html
So, yeah, I think churches carry an even greater responsibility to make sure their children are protected.
”Brothers and Sisters, we must not allow this witch hunt of C.J. and other SGM leaders to continue. . . The other pastors and I have sensed for some time that we are on the brink of some great things here.” Mickey Connelly August 3, 2012
http://thewartburgwatch.com/2012/08/09/mickey-connolly-stop-the-witch-hunt-of-cj-and-sgm/
Randall
Whoops-that is my fault. I will make a note on the post.
Question: “Do you believe that there are SGM churches out there that can retain their affiliation with the organization and yet be completely unaffected by SGM’s long history of legalism and concern for the organization’s image?”
-Kris, SGM Survivors
http://www.sgmsurvivors.com/?p=4015&cp=3
BeenThereDoneThat wrote:
Thanks for the link! So, if an unrepentant convicted child molester is prohibited from secular places where children gather, what’s left but a church for a hunting ground? So they find a church with lots of kids, go to the pastor and make a big phony show of conversion and repentance (these people are extremely good and convincing liars), appears to the pastor to show ‘every sign of genuine faith’, the pastor believes he knows best and needs to show ‘compassion and care’ for the child molester, so he puts him on double-secret probation, the congregation isn’t told, and the child molester has a happy hunting ground.
Given the high rate of recidivism for child molesters, this scenario is actually more likely in reality than a genuine conversion. Given that, there is absolutely no excuse for not warning the entire congregation, none.
Carolyn Mahommey wrote:
Last time I heard of “on the Brink of Great Things” it was at a place called Lakeland, being shilled by a Tatted Tod from his pet Angel Emma.
Patti wrote:
“What did I tell you? Keep playing with a rattlesnake, one day you’re going to get bit.” — Line from Cops in a similar situation
Deb and Dee,
This letter makes me feel sick. Thank you for continuing to stand up and spend your own time, money, and energy on people who are silenced or abused. You are pastors to many! And probably more pastorly than some of these dudes who are PAID to be pastors! On International Women’s Day, I want to give a hearty cry of ESHET CHAYIL and call you both Women of Valor!
Keep it up.
Emily
Dee – I may have duplicated efforts, but I happened to have Susan Burke’s e-mail address handy, so I sent her the link to this article in addition to the link to the church website. She needs to know.
This letter shows so little concern for the young victim of this crime that it is infuriating. The pastor says just barely enough in support of the victim to be able to check off that box, but the rest of the letter emphasizes the repentant nature the perp in an effort to cover the pastors and justify their actions.
I have several comments, but here is my BIG question:
Did the pastors of CrossWay advocate for leniency for the perpetrator? Are THEY part of the reason this child molester got away with probation and a maybe 10-yr. stint of the sexual offenders registry while his daughter carries his crime for a lifetime?
They say they “pastored them through Kevin’s criminal trial.” Did that include providing character references, vouching for his claim of conversion, promising ‘accountability’ and ‘counseling’, and so on?
I ask because of what the CLC pastors John Loftness and Gary Ricucci did to advocate FOR the incestuous perp and against the rights and care of the mother and daughter in a serious case at CLC.
Another comment is that both the pastor in the letter and the poster “sharklasers” from last night seem much more upset at Marge Sweigert for making this known than they are at the perp for doing it! They act like she is the real villain, the only problem here, along with the nasty social media like Facebook and the blogs. The way the pastor words this letter, purposely or not, seems designed to turn the congregation against her rather than against the perp or the pastors.
I wonder if the pastors even bothered to get in touch with her or if any of the members will thank for alerting them.
Also, I am upset that they identify his victim. Even news media that make their money reporting these things don’t do that. I hope she is not in the area any more and/or that she doesn’t find out she was publicly identified without her permission. Now who is the one spreading gossip?
I think they did it to somehow put her in a separate category “their” children aren’t in — he didn’t go around molesting other people’s children,just his own, so they are not in danger. And it didn’t happen on church grounds, so they are off the hook — as if church people never get together off church grounds. Plus it was before CrossWay, so, hey, CrossWay cured him.
And the remark about the perp being already divorced when this happened — is that some slimy insinuation meant to imply that he was just tempted and acting out because he was lonely or sexually deprived? Because the way I read it, this assault of his daughter happened WHILE he was dating/living with his girlfriend!
I do hope the pastors told him to skip tithing to the church and send that money to his ex-wife and daughter instead to pay for their therapy.
@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
Yeah, that’s the guy Australia and England won’t allow to enter. Great for them, anyway.
I always wanted someone to say that to me! Thank you!@ Emily:
Dee and Deb –
How dare you report this story accurately! That’s not the SGM Way. No wonder “sharklasers” is angry.
I have heard through the grapevine that she has been notified but do not know it to be true since i didn’t do it. Thank you. @ Julie Anne:
Jeff B
Did the best i could. I tried to call the church but they were not interested in talking with me.@ JeffB:
@ dee:
Sharklaser doubted that you had tried to contact CWCC.
BTW – CJ’s retirement as SGM’s president has been announced.
Carolyn Mahommey wrote:
HA! He sensed right, Carolyn!!! He is on the brink of something great! …just not in his favor. Poor Lass. His discernment is like a Tarot reader off the side of 95 next to the truck stop that also sells those hard beaded car seat covers. Everybody has a side gig. Everybody.
If a church leader knows a convicted sex offender is the the congregation and does not tell the parents there, and a subsequent offense affects a child affiliated with the church in some way, the leader is effectively signing over the church assets to a good lawyer that will show that the leader knew the risk and did not act to protect the child from harm. My suit would ask for every asset of the church and the pastor, PLUS all of the insurance, and it would include the deed to the church property. I suspect any good litagator could succeed in getting it all.
It is a stupid, risky approach that fails to protect the children for the benefit of the RSO.
BTW, it does not have to be an RSO, just someone that the pastor has reason to believe has abused a child in the past or has been dealing with an inappropriate sexual attraction toward children. Sitting on the knowledge is dangerous and wrong. Anyone who does not understand has no place in ministry.
JeffB wrote:
What he said. Wink.
Imagine what 70 years of weekly psychotherapy would cost in today’s dollars @ $250 per session today! Plus damages for possible loss of consortium for a lifetime due to the trauma. Plus damages to the parents. Then the parents and attorney could sell the buildings to another religious group with a deed restriction.
Well this is sad but interesting. I thought when I first read about this that maybe this was a case where the registered sex offender was possibly wrongly convicted (that can happen) but the Crossway letter indicates that this offender confessed to it. If there was a question over whether this registered offender actually did what he was convicted of then it might have been a little more understandable having him be an usher but that isn’t the case. Not saying it would have been right for him to be an usher but just saying a little better.
IMO it is even worse when you have someone that will do this to their own child. It is terrible when one does this to someone else’s but to do this to your own child and then allow this person to be an usher.
It sure sounds typical SGM “spin” to claim that Marge’s account is wrong and then write a statement that is basically confirming what Marge said. Claiming that Marge account is wrong and complain about how things spread so quickly on the internet was a way to obfuscate things and try and elicit sympathy IMO.
There should be grace and forgiveness for a sex offender but to especially put this person in a position of authority as an usher when they know this person’s past is just shocking. At least now (after exposure) they are admitting that they shouldn’t have done that.
JeffT wrote:
Yes. Warn the entire congregation and in a loving and Christlike way escort the sex offender 100% of the time they are on the church premises, no exceptions. And no expiration date. I believe that someone who is truly repentant and who doesn’t WANT to be a sexual predator anymore would accept restrictions severe enough to make it impossible to indulge their compulsion. It’s not punishment; it’s a safety measure.
I know of a church that informed the sex offender in their midst of such an escort policy and he decided that attending that particular church wasn’t so important to him after all. That’s a red flag, in my opinion. Take away the possibility of ever being alone with a child and all that convincing penitence just goes poof?
A big problem here is that these authoritarian types cannot admit to themselves or to anyone else that it is even remotely possible that they could ever be deceived. I realized this after reading everything I could find on the Doug Wilson fiasco. The details made me sick to my stomach but I had to understand what was behind such a jacked up mess of a situation. I have concluded that Infallible Patriarch Doug was conned by a sociopath but he will pile grievous error on grievous error rather than deal with the fact that he is catastrophically wrong.
Authoritarian leaders live in a self-created phony world where they don’t make mistakes, and when reality seeps in around the corners and upsets their illusions, they lash out.
@ An Attorney:
Thank you for that comment!
An Attorney
Great comment!
BeenThereDoneThat wrote:
Well, we’re not under law, we’re under grace!
>rimshotsarcasm off<
I am very disturbed that Mickey Connolly did not disclose in his letter to the members that the TWW editor Dee called the church office one week ago in inquire about the alleged sex offender member and that the pastors declined to speak to her. The blog post appeared five days afterwards. CrossWay members should be asking Mickey why he refused to speak to Dee privately about this when given the opportunity.
It also disturbs me that he said that “a former member of Crossway (referring to me) has posted this information on a blog.” That is patently false, unless Dee is actually a closet former CrossWay member since she is the one who posted the information in Wednesday’s post. It all started when I posted a comment last Friday expressing my concern that I had learned through a conversation with a friend that there was a sex offender at the church and that most of the members, to my knowledge, had not been informed. That’s when Dee decided to pursue the matter by making a call to CrossWay, with the result of her publishing the post after the pastors refused to co-operate.
Mickey seems to be deflecting all blame from himself and onto me in this letter. He considers questioning his handling of the information in a public forum – after the pastors were given the opportunity to respond privately and declined – to be “reprehensible”. He considers sharing information that is a matter of public record to be “reprehensible”. He considers a parent’s alarm and concern for the welfare of children in her former “church” to be “reprehensible.” Well, if that’s what “reprehensible” is, then I will wear it as a badge of honor. I am pretty handy with a needle and will be embroidering a bright scarlet “R” on the bodice of my gown.
Marge – Once again: it’s the blame-the-messenger game rather than looking at themselves. They need something to shift the negative focus off of them and you get to be it. Shame on them. I’m proud of you, Marge.
Marge –
I posted this earlier. CWCC has no idea what they are doing and now the are lamely trying to divert reality.
“sharklasers wrote:
@ Bridget: i would be interested to know when the clarification was asked for…even still, would you discuss something of this nature with some unknown person calling the church and wanting to know about sex offenders in your church? i would would be leery of that to be honest.”
Me:
I tried to respond to this comment last night but it wouldn’t post. (I must have been typing at the point of shut down.) I decided it was worth a redo.
The response above is just, well, backwards. If a person called my church pastor and had questions or concerns about, or even mentioned the word pedophile, I would want them to respond immediately to the phone call and see what the person wanted. I mean, really, what if they had information about someone who was attending your church that might be molesting children. This is EXACTLY what a pastor should be concerned about and immediately checking into. He shouldn’t ignore the call or assume he knows what the call us about, or be in fear of the call. What does “care for the flock” mean?
@ Bridget:
Dee identified herself and they knew who she was. They know about the blogs.
@ Trina: LOLZ!
Marge –
Well that just begs the question as to why Sharklaser doubted that she had called to get clarification 🙂 But, then again, if s/he is just a member then they probably haven’t been informed of the “real” goings on in their church. It’s hard to work through something with false information isn’t it?
Numo –
Did you get my email the other day via Dee?
These are your tithe dollars at work… Watching over your souls. Protect and serve. Spin and weave. But, don’t stop giving and don’t be faithless, especially NOW. Cause we got a contract on you…
@ Bridget: No – or else maybe it ended up in my spam folder?
will go and check now…
@ Bridget: Can’t find it anywhere…
I just found it. It was my fault. I am a bit overwhelmed this week.@ numo:
I most definitely called them. Here is what I said to Dave.
“Hi, this is Dee Parsons of The Wartburg Watch. I assume that you know who I am?” He said “Yes, I do.” I then proceeded to read him Marge’s letter. @ Marge Sweigart:
Bridget wrote:
This, folks, right here, is a total Blogger victory!!!
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES
LETS PARTY!!!
Bring a special degift to give CJ as a token of what you feel he deserves. The bigger the degift the better.
To the card, add the names of all the people CJ has degifted over the years so he doesn’t feel alone, and to help him reflect on the good old days, when he had the power to give big degifts to others.
I’m sure he’ll be touched in the sense a person is touched whose empathy doesn’t extend far beyond himself. And don’t be fooled by his letter. All he feels now is BETRAYED.
This is a Blogger victory!! It certainly cannot be stated that it’s an accomplishment of Brent Detwiler, because the blogs came first.
It cannot be stated that it’s an accomplishment of the SGM Board, that’s for sure.
It cannot be started that it was an accomplishment of the AoR Report. Hell no!
It cannot be stated that it was an accomplishment of SGM members or of CLC or of any of the SGM churches that left recently.
This is a direct accomplishment of the SURVIVORS who have spoken out and taken a stand whether anonymously or by using their own names. And for the blog hosts that have provided a place for PEOPLE to SPEAK OUT and for VOICES TO BE HEARD, instead of silenced by those who would otherwise accuse us of GOSSIP & SLANDER. It’s an accomplishment of the people who were victimized by SGM and those who have supported them.
But make no mistake. CJ MAHANEY HAS BEEN OUSTED. He may make it sound like it was his plan, but it wasn’t. It is GOD’S plan as executed through the PEOPLE who deserve to be recognized for being instruments of His Righteousness!!
Stand up and take a bow! All of you. You know who you are. Many of you the nameless faceless victims of the SGM trauma machine. And write down this date and let’s remember it: MARCH 8, 2013!
*\ 🙂 /* *\ 🙂 /* *\ 🙂 /* *\ 🙂 /* *\ 🙂 /* *\ 🙂 /* *\ 🙂 /*
dee wrote:
You mean my comment, not letter, right, Dee?
Marge
That is what I meant. I read your comment from the blog. I think I am a bit tired.@ Marge Sweigart:
@ Eagle:
Eagle, I agree. I think it’s meaningless. He’s not going away, much as we would like him to.
@ Eagle:
Frankly, I’m astounded that people do not see this as good news. Do we not see God having been at work in and through all of this?
I’m seeing the same attitude of gloom and doom at Survivors.
Amazing.
Speaking of the lawsuit, the date has been set for the trial.
COURT (BURRELL, J.) SETS CASE FOR A TWENTY DAY JURY TRIAL ON FEBRUARY 3, 2014 AT 9:30AM.
http://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/inquiry/inquiryDetail.jis?caseId=369721V&loc=68&detailLoc=MCCI
Case# is 369721V
Marge
So, when do you think the lawyers will start trying to settle this thing? @ Marge Sweigart:
Evie
CJ has played the come back kid so often that people are a little gun shy.@ Evie:
I think it’s time for us to recognize what a good thing has been accomplished. Ultimately, what is our desire? Is it not to see the Name of the Lord lifted up and restored, that his love and compassion for people would be seen? That it would become apparent at the end of the day that God resists the proud?
I say who cares if you think CJ isn’t going to go away. What makes your opinion count, especially when measured against everything has occurred? Or maybe you are shortsighted.
Let’s take a look back shall we? Some of us are not new to this fight. We’ve seen this progress toward this point slowly but surely for years now, and while it’s been a slow and painful process, it most certainly has been a process characterized by a steady match of truth toward justice. Things continued to gain momentum as more and more stories came out, and each time a story backed up the one that went before it like fresh reinforcements being sent in, new ground was gained and the strength of SGM and CJ Mahaney lost a little ground. Then a little more ground. Then a little more ground.
Brent’s documents delivered a timely and decisive blow. More people started sitting up and playing attention. The charges of gossip and slander started losing their grip on people’s minds as they began to wake up and realize how they were being controlled and held captive. But how could such a large organization be so wrong compared to just a ‘few bitter people’ who were writing from their computers in their ‘Mom’s basements.’
Fact of the message is those people are the ones that created the openings for people to start questioning that which they were taught not to question. To start seeing through eyes that before we’re previously covered by scales. To start hearing how they were being brainwashed and to start thinking for themselves.
If none of what we did here over the years had never happened, then you could say CJ isn’t going away. But to say he isn’t, in my opinion, is to virtually minimize and negate the reality of what’s happened here. I’d say you’d still have to be blind. You’d still have to be deaf. I’d say you haven’t been listening and you might as well be dumb. Because we are looking at something worth celebrating here people. And for those of us that realize it, please go rain on someone’s else parade.
I thank God CJ Mahaney is gone, and I know God has brought this about, thank you Jesus. This gives us hope that He is on the move, fighting for the oppressed, setting the captives free, and purging the church in preparation for new and better things to come. HALLELUJAH!!!
@ dee:
He has that’s true. But never in a time like this. The guy’s a camelion to be sure but this time he can hide. He became too well known. In the end his ambition and the fame he build for himself using other people is what worked to destroy him. In the letter you can see how he presumes upon God’s favor like he always has. But what he built was never on the basis of God’s favor, and now that that’s obvious and the Almighty has made his will known, what can be CJ Mahaney do?
So who cares if he never repents or whatever. Anyone who thinks that was ever a possibility all along was dreaming. They’re still hoping that these men will somehow straighten out. And so they stayed in their SGM churches, or worse, walked away from the faith a if SGM defined it. And it’s these same people that astonishingly continue to think CJ has some kind of power that hasn’t been defused.
I think it’s best to view CJ in the light now that he’s been exposed. He’s been exposed as a false brother, a false apostle, a false teacher and follow the biblical (whoop there it is!) instructions for how to relate to such a one. This hate to see the secular judicial system provide a more accurate assessment of how the man should be considered, but judging from the viewpoints so far, I’m afraid the world is going to keep having to teach the church it’s lessons on how to judge it’s violators.
dee wrote:
I have no idea.
@ dee:
I feel the same way. It’s like these movies where you think the serial killer is dead, and then WHAM…knife in the back.
Remember, a psychopathic narcissist does not change. They NEED attention. This is what drives them. There is no hole they are willing to crawl into. Hopefully, CJs pathology can be limited to a narrower scope of people, but…who knows.
@ Marge Sweigart:
I don’t know much at all about lawsuits, but if the plaintiffs requested a trial by jury and the district court posting says that it will be a 20-day jury trial, I would expect that they will not settle out of court. Maybe someone else that understands these things better can comment?
Also, is there any significance to the fact that CJ announced his retirement on the same day that the trial date was set? Just wondering.
Marge
I, too, believe that the litigants do not wish to settle. However, in light of the CrossWay dustup, my guess is that some effort will be made to try to make sure the defendants never appear in court.@ Marge Sweigart:
Marge
Somehow I do not believe that CJ will fall on his proverbial sword for the good of SGM. I do find the timing interesting and I am trying to figure out what they hope it will accomplish.
They extolled his virtues so SGM has made sure the world knows that he walks on water. How this will help anything is beyond me. > @ dee:
Ok not sure why I find this extremely frustrating. Or why I feel the announcement of Mahaney’s ‘resignation’ is being trivialized. I guess I don’t understand why this would not be seen a victory in light of everyone’s combined efforts. I don’t know why but it makes me wonder if people have any real convictions. Like, do you not believe that God Himself has been deeply angered and aroused to jealously over the ways in which HIS PEOPLE have been treated? And do you not see that God has been at work in all of this to accomplish His Will? If not, what has been your motivation in participating in all of this if not to see God’s will to be done, for His Kingdom to come, and for that to impact WHAT WE’VE BEEN FIGHTING TO EXPOSE – AN ABERRANT FORM OF THE GOSPEL??
Call me naive, I don’t care. But I think God is the One that has worked through you and me, imperfect people as we may be, and collectively brought down a man who had worked to pervert the Word of God and distort the gospel that we love. A man who was not a true servant of the Cross that he claimed to be. A man who proved to have created a Culture of Abuse in which all kinds of people were victimized, including young children. A false Shepherd who was a hireling and cared nothing for His sheep.
But God cares what happened, and I believe that ahead of the court case CJ Mahaney has been judged. Maybe I’m the only one seeing the writing on the wall. I realize there’s going to be more to the story and is not like Mahaney is going to just vaporize. What I mean when I say he’s ‘gone’ is that he’s been removed from a position of power and regardless of how hard he tries, he’s not going to get that back. He’s not going to be able to cause the kind of destruction he’s done in the past.
Will we see the man accept his punishment? Will we see SGM leaders repent? Will we see SGM churches change and turn into authentic christian communities?
I think this is where I’ve been different in that I don’t believe that was ever the focus of God’s will. I don’t believe the hope in all of this was to see SGM and is key players change. When I saw people talk that way I always felt like they got it wrong. And I think if that is where people had placed there hope, then naturally they would be disappointed in CJs resignation and hope to see him acknowledge and confess his sins, as if that’s the kind of man he really is. So what I’m appealing for is that we take some time to celebrate what’s taken place. To acknowledge the Lord and to give thanks. To recognize His hand of mercy, His care & compassion, His love and His jealousy for His people – that He passionately cares about His sheep enough to go after one that gets lost. That the Kingdom of God belongs to children such as the ones who were victimized. That God truly does love us and has not been a passive bystander, but rather has worked through a band of misfits to remove a man who time and again proved to be disqualified as a leader in the church and a minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ. I think there’s something amazing in all of this, and the reactions are telling. I’m sure Brent Detwiler is working up a response to all this now, but I predict his focus will be on CJ and Brents efforts and sound all sad, like ‘if CJ had just listened to meeeee, none of this would have happened and we’d be singing Hey Lolly Lolly from the comforts of our SGM pulpits.’
@ Evie:
I can only speak for myself, Evie. I look at this announcement as another ruse by SGM to make it look like something is actually changing.
CJ said in January 2012 that he was only going to be President of SGM for a short time. http://www.sovereigngraceministries.org/blogs/cj-mahaney/post/A-note-to-those-in-Sovereign-Grace-Ministries.aspx So his “retirement” is not at all unexpected.
The fact is, he is still going to be Senior Pastor of the SGM church in Louisville, where SGM headquarters and pastors college is now. He will undoubtedly continue to be a major influence on SGM and the PC, even though he is not officially head of the organization anymore. He continues to share a platform with the T4G/RBD guys. He has not and will not be going away. Perhaps not being attached formally to SGM corporate will free him to be even more of an influence in the evangelical/reformed world. God help them.
I will only be satisfied when CJM is fully and publically exposed as the hypocritical wolf that is he and when Sovereign Grace Ministries ceases to exist.
Evie, I can’t remember – are you a former SGMer?
P. S. It feels too much to me like the scene in the Wizard of Oz, where people celebrate their deliverance from the witch’s power and reign, has been rewritten. Instead of bells ringing out and people singing ‘Ding doing the witch is dead’ has been changed to a dreary message that reads something like ‘Well, you know, she’s not really gone. Dorothy didn’t make a difference. I’m sure the witch will be back since we were all so afraid of her, so let’s tone it down – nothings really changed.’
COME ON PEOPLE! DING DONG THE WITCH IS DEAD!! ITS TIME TO LIFT UP YOUR HEADS AND BE HAPPY ABOUT THIS! (but continue to pray for the healing of the victims)
o. m. g. Marge. Why am I not surprised you would ask that.
Evie wrote:
I don’t understand what you’re getting at.
What I’m getting at is an apparent attempt to discredit what I’m saying.
@ Evie:
I am not trying to discredit what you’re saying and I’m surprised that a simple question would put you so much on the defensive. You were giving your opinion and you asked why not everyone feels the same way you do. I told you what I think and much of why I think the way I do is because I spent 30 years of my life in the organization. That fact colors the way that I view this announcement of CJ’s. I am trying to understand why you are so optimistic. If I knew what your history with SGM is, it would help me to understand why you see it as you do. Of course you are under no obligation to answer my question and I respect your choice if you are not comfortable doing so.
SGM Detox is back again today at 11am Eastern time. Don’t miss it! http://www.blogtalkradio.com/vincecoakley
Evie–
I think you need to slow down and also calm down a bit. You are making serious and unfair charges about other people’s spiritual knowledge and understanding that are not yours to make. And it is unfair for you to judge others’ lack of celebration with you, at this point, as them wanting to be sullen or unhappy, or stuck in a rut. Wisdom would tell many, especially those who are so deeply experienced with the likes of people like CJ that it may be too soon to tell what this really means. Taking into account the character and nature of those involved in Sovereign Grace, all of the evidence we have available to us, personal accounts, documented accounts-it would appear to me that others are being wise and cautious to understand that this doesn’t necessarily mean what YOU think it means.
For you to say “once and for all, he is gone” is premature becuase you don’t know that, Evie. If you want to think that and celebrate what you believe to be a final outcome of a bad situation then do that. But you have no right to compare and judge others. Be naive all you wish, and if wisdom and experience informs many, i would have to agree with you on your own self-assesmentt. i think you ARE being a little naive. And it was rather unkind of you to compare others lack of “celebration” with you as akin to those over at SGMsurvivors. That’s just really immature and you’re coming off as totally immature, unfair and whiny. So please stop that. Let people feel and think what they need to. And you don’t know that others ARE, in fact, celebrating these small victories. So take a deep breath and calm down.
Marge
Evie is a former long time member of SGM. She was deeply hurt by the system as was her family with long term implications. She is most likely gratified that CJ is gone officially since, even a couple of years ago, such a thing was beyond imagination. @ Marge Sweigart:
I concur with Trina.
Our upcoming posts should shed some light on why some (including me) are not rejoicing about Mahaney’s latest maneuver. He has far too many influential supporters OUTSIDE of SGM now. If he goes down in flames, they may, too.
There is SO MUCH at stake for Mohler, Dever, Piper, Duncan, The Gospel Coalition as a whole, Challies, etc. It will be interesting to ‘watch’ and report…
While I totally understand Evie’s jubilation, I am guardedly optimistic.
We need to pray fervently that God’s will be done.
Look Marge, I completely understand what you’re saying from a logical point of view. That the announcement of CJs resignation was preplanned and expected, that’s is not a signal victory because of that.
But do you not see that this is where Mahaney’s evil genius lies? In his uncanny ability to see down the road and manipulate events in an effort to protect himself and his investment? He puts things in motion way ahead of what people come to realize, which is why he’s always been so keen on controlling the flow of information and keeping people in the dark for s long as possible, while he schemes behind the scenes?
This is why he’s always thought of himself as a great leader, not because he’s humble or authentic or such a servant. But because he is a matter manipulator.
So, all the PR that he puts out of SGM puts out – I don’t recognize it. I’m not giving it any authority. Because what I’m seeing is a higher authority at work. And his truth shall reign. Mahaney has been beaten at his own game by someone he’s not in league with. He is the One who, in truth, has manipulated events, if you will, to catch a theif and to trap a wolf. And when God does something, we can rest confident in His work. So that why I’m singing my praises to God, and asking others to join with me. He inhabits the praises of His people, and I believe that would be an appropriate response. When the vanquished leaves the field, that when the party can begin. It’s like seeing the snow melting and hearing the sound of Father Christmas and his sleigh bells in the land again! This is good! Aslan is on the move!
@ dee:
Thank you Dee – typing through tears.
I love God and His people. I hate what SGM has done. God is for us. Yes he is. Take heart. Be strong and courageous. The Lord reigns. *\ 🙂 /*
@ dee:
Thanks, Dee. That makes perfect sense. Evie, I’m sorry that I offended you with my question. It was not meant to hurt you. I was just trying to understand.
@ Evie:
Evie, I see that I really misunderstood what you were saying in the first place. I completely understand about CJ’s manipulation. I guess I thought that you didn’t. We really are on the same page. Communicating this way is severely limiting. Thanks for coming back and clarifying. I do believe that God is at work. You are seeing and celebrating the little steps along the way, and I’ve been focused on the final victory, so to speak. I’ve learned a lot today and you have encouraged me. Thank you.
@ Marge Sweigart:
And I shouldn’t call them “little steps”. Wish I hadn’t hit “send” already. They are significant battles.
@ Trina:
I’m frustrated Trina. And you’re right. I was disappointed. I see this as a signal victory but I can also understand the skepticism. I can’t make anyone join the party. BUT YOU BETTER BELIEVE IM THROWING ONE HERE SO GET YOUR HAT ON, GRAB YOUR KAZOO, AND LETS CELEBRATE!!
*++***+*+***+*+***+***+*++++*+*+++**+*+***+*+***+*+*+***+*
Don’t forget to listen live to Vince Coakley – NOW!!!
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/vincecoakley/2013/03/09/sgm-detox-lifestyle-legalism
I know we’re on the same team Marge and ((((((((hugs)))))))
Evie, I think you SHOULD celebrate every victory that there is in this process. Sometimes we have to do that on our own; or in our own way. But you are not alone, Evie. So dont think that way. We can’t always expect others to have the same response that we do and then judge them harshly for it or throw a fit about it. I didn’t appreciate the heaping judgement that you were piling on others and the biblical inferences you were using. It was just unfair. And it seemed hypocritical and just…wrong. As it was just unfair to you ALLL the things you’ve been through in that church.
But I understand your frustration. You want this all to be over and done with. It will be. Somehow, though, you’ve got to make it that for yourself and your own life regardless of what’s going on with others. For you, this is huge and hopefully, as it seems you are, you can begin moving on with your life further and further than you have already. Don’t make your healing dependent on other people. They will always disappoint you. I am sure you have made some significant strides. May there be Peace for you today. I understand what it’s like to really REALLY need it. And please let us know how you have celebrated today FOR YOURSELF! Make it about you! Be selfish and go do something good for you in celebration. And then come back and give us ALLL the juicy details. That could be really fun!
@ Deb:
This is great, Deb. I love it when he says that a culture of expectation and limitation is dehumanizing of individuals who don’t fit the mold or status quo. It marginalizes and limits others. Dogmatisation of particular family structures and life structures replace the message of Christ being crucified and victorious. I love the examples he gives about singles and young people being dehumanized and used for the purposes of merely serving others.
Back to listen to more…
@ Deb:
I think she was right too. Especially this part,
Wow… The doctrine of ESS brings about human trauma. This talk show is really good. I love it that they are just going straight for the jugular with these topics.
Evie– thank you. I am sure any and everyone would accept such a genuine apology. Have you gotten a chance to listen to the podcast that Deb linked to? It is REALLY great AND encouraging! I think you would be encouraged. Here are two men who were definitely entrenched in SGM and talk about how the beliefs ripped their kids or families apart; they are talking about the pain it caused. They are talking about compassion for all people. It is amazing to see how these men have been influenced by truth. I think it would give some sunshine to your day.
Pain is lonely. It really is. Somehow, nobody can jump inside your skin, your mind, your body and share that experience as intimately as you’d want it to be. It seems like those feelings and experiences are so isolating. I’ve felt that way recently. I was very angry and hurt about some old things in the past that were triggered by a few blog posts here. I realized that I needed to spend some time away and not even participate because it was too painful for me, and it was not necessary that I rehash or think about those things. So may you be Comforted also today, Evie.
Ha!!! Church discipline and the constant monitoring of people’s behavior is essentially a police state. Wow. Just eye-opening. I you haven’t listened to this podcast, then DO! It is great.
Ooo! “The local church is subordinate to the kingdom of God.” Tell it. Hmmm….they are making ripe enemies with that one.
@ Trina:
That WAS an awesome broadcast!
Thanks for the kind words Trina. Glad it ministered to you.
@ Evie: Hi there – I think we are all a little uneasy – and skeptical – because he has “stepped down” before, only to come roaring back.
The timing – as others have mentioned – seems pretty “interesting” (convenient, maybe?) too.
It all reminds me of Nixon saying he hadn’t done anything wrong, hadn’t lied, etc.
@ Evie: And hey – I completely understand why you feel like celebrating. Although I was never in SGM, I was in other abusive churches and I only wish they would be under public scrutiny now in the same way that SGM (and former SGM) churches are.
I *wish* that the people responsible for harming me – and others – and kicking me out – would be publicly repentant. I wish that they would apologize to me, and to others.
It’s been 10+ years for me, so you know… I’m not gonna hold my breath, waiting for something that will never happen. : (
However… I’ve learned to live with the silence, although sometimes I still get angry.
We’re all in the Fellowship of the Wounded, and I’m glad that for you, this is a big milestone. (And can see why that would be so.)
Much love to you!
numo
@ SGMOvercomer: you’re welcome!
@ Trina:
Trina –
You might enjoy listening to the previous podcasts as well. They were excellent. I still need to listen to today’s. Sounds like it was awesome 🙂
@ Bridget: Hey there – I got your email and wrote back… Thanks so much!
Hey, you all, some smart blogger ladies connected the dots and made sense of the timing of the announcement of CJ Mahaney’s resignation. Evie, you’ll especially like this!
http://joyinthisjourney.com/2013/03/coincidence-or-not-cj-mahaney-announces-resignation-the-day-trial-date-set-for-sovereign-grace-lawsuit/
“You may recall that Sovereign Grace Ministries asked to have the lawsuit dismissed, claiming their actions were protected by the First Amendment. The results of the March 7 hearing is significant, according to Hännah of Wine and Marble, because it means the judge rejected this argument.”
@ numo:
Thank you Numo, that was sweet and encouraging thanks! With love back at you.
I don’t expect CJ Mahaney or the trouble makers of SGM to come clean. I never did. So I don’t expect there to be a clean closure in that regard. They exacted obedience and submission from others, so it seems one just that we should wish to see that of them and not rest until it happens.
I don’t believe that will ever happen. I think they will reap what they have sown. As they worked to deceive, so they shall be. How awful would it be to think you can see, when you’re blind? To think you can guide others when you’re heading down into a pit yourself?
All these guys will have at their disposal are the elements of the world. To build according to worldly principals. And there will be people who fall for it. But he’s a marked man now Imo. The Big Insider who’s really OUT.
@ Marge Sweigart:
Going to check it out now Marge 😀
@ Evie: You know, I have friends who’ve been members at both CLC and FX for decades now.
I worry about them, and about their kids (grown, now), but can’t say much, if anything. I am concerned that their kids might have been abused, and/or that my friends have experienced other abuses themselves.
It can be hard to sit on one’s hands and bite one’s tongue.
The thing is, they are lovely people, and I cannot imagine any of them enabling abuse or not being appalled by the sexual abuse of children.
Something is very, VERY wrong when intelligent people are stuck in cult-like “churches.”
But then, as someone with a discipleship movement background, *I’ve* been there and done that. (Though not in situations where I *know* of child abuse, though it might well have happened – there certainly were many *other* kinds of abuses, including sexual impropriety and what amounted to extorting money from members to pay for things that the “pastors” wanted for themselves.)
I guess that poem (is it by Robert Burns?) that begins
is VERY true – and apt, in all of these instances and many more.
“There is SO MUCH at stake for Mohler, Dever, Piper, Duncan, The Gospel Coalition as a whole, Challies, etc. It will be interesting to ‘watch’ and report…”
These are why I think he resigned. I think it WAS outside pressure. If you look back on how far back they have supported him and how it got worse and worse I think we are seeing a ‘PR’ move.
From reading around the pastor blogs, even Reformed pastors were starting to question Mohler’s insistence and silence on the issue. In other words, Mahaney was starting to be a huge liability for others. Amazing to me they allowed what I see as a sociopathic narcissist to use them for this long. They might have seen it sooner if they were not a lot like him.
Mahaney’s only hope for a future of speaking gigs/ministry at all is the Reformed big dogs. So it does him no good if they start losing influence because of him.
This resignation was a way to shut people up because they can say “he resigned”, what more do you want? Now you are just piling on. You are sinning by piling on.
My question is “resigned” from what exactly? There is not much to resign from. But some of his people (son in laws, Bob Kauflin and family) are taken care of by Mohler at SBTS.
This was an ego blow to Mahaney. But that is about all.
I really wonder what Crossway Leaders were thinking when they decided to allow a registered sex offender to be an usher even if they had some type of agreement as to where this usher might go. Were they that desperate for help that they had to scrape the barrel that low?
I would use the analogy that anyone with an “addiction” needs to have special precautions places around them. For example with someone who is an alcoholic one would think that they shouldn’t be around alcohol. Dr. Phil in one of his books suggested that someone trying to loose weight shouldn’t be in a food service job if at all possible and also for anyone trying to loose weigh to not have tempting food available in easy reach.
With a sex offender the consequences are typically much worse then with alcohol and especially much worse then food. Why would the leaders of Crossway risk having an admitted child molester in any area of authority or influence? Why weren’t precautions taken.
Why does the leadership of Crossway have to point fingers at the person who exposed their stupidity rather just admitting just how stupid this was to do?
With this case and the rumors I hear about cases that had happened in Richmond I see more and more justification for a class action lawsuit.
SGM’s Tombstone: “What Goes Around Seems Ta Come Around?”
HowDee,
hmmm…
Curly ‘Trickey Mickey’ Brocius: “Suffer da little child’ren ta come ta SGM ‘Cross’-way?”
Wartburg Sisters: “Not a’ snowball’s chance…pedophile on da loose!”
Da irony of all dis, is dat Da ‘Tricky Micky’ , isn’t he dat same ole proverbial SGM remote control pastoral pawn dat took out Ole SGM wikileaks author ‘degifted’ SGM pastor BrentD? What goes around seems ta come around, don’t it?
hmmm…
…it ain’t BrentD’s illegitimate children ‘Gossip’ and ‘Slender’ come call’in…now!
…nor are theyz thoze two foster kids ‘Mistrust’ and ‘Suspicion’, none neither…
Nope!
…Itz “Wyatt Erpp”, walking on da federal waters…
…and doze WartBurg Sisters, are wit him, and theyz a’ plenty mad!
…plenty mad indeed!
-snicker-
Theyz got ole Doc Burke wit um too! -snark-
bedda run.
(grin)
hahahahaha
>-((S“㋡”py((º>™
—
@ Sopwith:
Love it, Sopy!
Sopy
You are right. I am plenty mad. Mad at how those who ask about the pedophiles are the villains and those who protect them are the godly ones.
“I really wonder what Crossway Leaders were thinking when they decided to allow a registered sex offender to be an usher even if they had some type of agreement as to where this usher might go. Were they that desperate for help that they had to scrape the barrel that low? ”
Based on what we have learned about the history of SGM/PDi as far as teaching and behavior, perhaps they do not view this sort of behavior (molestation of children) as that big of a deal? Could it have something to do with the perps being male and the crimes, sexual? They see it as not a “norm” but “understandable” for males? So they cure it by having them join SGM, get married and have sex with your wife?
After all the stories sgmwide, I think there is something deeper and more sinister at work here. What seems to freak us out and become insistent on justice, seems to treated as something like a first shoplifting offense.
I do not think they are simply naive. I think they are evil and have serious cold hearts against children and women.
Topsy -Tervy-Cross : “Take Dis Here C-h-u-r-c-h and Whaaaat?”
Marge,
Hey,
Yeah, ‘Trickey Mickey’ seems to be deflecting all da blame from himself and onto you in this letter, no doubt. “Stupid is a stupid does”…huh?
Rep-re-hens-ible?
(and he accuses Da Wartburg Sisters of missbehav’in?!?)
Go fish!
Dat proverbial ‘MadDogg’ Mickey, heh, heh, heh…
he’s such a proverbial ‘kidder’.
come ta think of it…
Heck, I’ll give youze a’ “medal”, myself!
(grin)
I’ll even throw in a’ merit-badge for “cook’in” dem proverbial noddleheads.
-snicker-
hum, hum, hum…”Take dis SGM c-h-u-r-c-h and shoveit, I ain’t comm’in here no mo…!”
(grin)
hahahahaha
>-((S“㋡”py((º>™
—
I haven read much of the lawsuit information…is the trial in Montgomery County???
Maybe I’ll get called for jury duty!!!!!
dee wrote:
hmmm…
juz don’t b da one on da hood in ‘their’ parking-lot @ 7:00am. ( -snicker-) if you do bedder bring da Sheriff.
(grin)
hum, hum, hum, I brought da Sheriff, and I brought along his de-pu-tes…
and da federal Marshals,
and, and, and…
Kirrrrrrrrrk!
Come out wit youze hands Up!
“You have da right ta remain silent…”
(grin)
>-((S“㋡”py((º>™
___
P.S. Wher’ze ma chocklete?
MAK
i bet one of the questions for the jury will be, “Have you ever posted on a blog?” However, I know nothing, I see nothing…
Dee, yes, also “have you ever been a member of an SGM church?” Of course, how would they know if one was a supporter or not. I guess they would recuse any member because of that.
I wonder if the jury will think that providing information to members that there are child sex offenders in their church is “reprehensible?”.
Steph wrote:
@Steph Can you point me to where John Morrison was commenting on facebook?
Fascinating letter from Pastor Swan. Certainly appears CW took steps to inform lot’s of folks along the way (kudo’s to them), but curiously, it took almost 3 years to decide that the SECURITY TEAM should be advised at the behest of someone else? In the vernacular of SGM, I would say that was “unwise”. Or in today’s common language, DUH!
@ Sopwith:
Thank you for the medal, Sopy. I’ll wear it proudly. 😀
@ A:
A – I don’t know if Steph will be back to answer. I saw it and I participated in the discussion. You can contact me privately on FB for more info if you desire. That is, unless you are afraid to disobey Mickey’s commands to avoid people like me.
Amen, Emily.@ Emily:
@ Marge Sweigart:
« Si un être dans le Christ… »
Mme. Marge,
Salut!
Vous avez été magnifique !
Ceux qui marche avec Jésus et enseigner aux autres à accomplir aussi, sont les plus grands dans le Royaume de Dieu !
Yehaaaaaaaaaa!
ATB
>-((S㋡py((º>
—
The biggest indicator for me that there is something wrong with this is the pastor’s statement that he finds what Marge did “reprehensible.” Why?
All Marge did was post in social media what was already public information from the sexual offender registry.
Why is this reprehensible?
It’s apparently reprehensible because the church got busted.
If the pastor had led with, “We saw this posted on social media and that caused us to rethink what we had done. We will now explain it.”
That would be more believable, in my opinion.
A call to the little girl’s mom to express sympathy, and to inform her that her ex-husband, child molester was attending the church, might have been a good and right thing to do, also.
The little girl is lost in all of this.
Anonymous
Thank you so much for your comment about “the little girl is lost in all of this.” You get it!
@ Anonymous:
Thanks Anonymous!
Isn’t this what mostly happens with pedophiles? They seem to be able to manipulate everyone around the victim to a place of forgetting the victim or alleged victim. I don’t know if this is the case in this particular situation, but I don’t imagine that Mickey would relish the thought of having been manipulated. Being in the position of pastor, he’d be wise to understand the issues surrounding the man he is supporting.
Bridget, I agree.
I naturally have some sympathy toward the idea of trying to minister to someone who is guilty of a heinous crime.
But this crime, in particular, is very tricky to deal with, given how these people have a very hard time not reoffending, that they are secretive, that their victims are often too little to resist etc.
Assuming that the church did everything that the second email states (and I seriously doubt that they took all of those steps), I would not want the church to do that for 2 reasons. It’s still not enough. But also, I would not, as an elder, want to have to police this guy. It seems like they kept a lot of that knowledge within their group. If something went wrong – look out. Just from the standpoint of self protection, I would want to get it off my plate, and let everyone know.
Have you guys ever thought about once notice is done correctly, how does a church keep that up? New people join etc. Say it’s 10 years later. When the perpetrator first came, everyone was notified etc. What does a church do for 10 or 15 years down the road? New staff, new parents, new kids etc.? Seems like there needs to be a permanent type of disclosure that doesn’t dominate the church, but also lets new people coming what has happened.
I had never heard of SGM or any of these issues until a couple of days ago. My heart goes out to the victims, their families, and those who struggle with them for justice.