Household of Faith Fellowship of Churches – An Overview

"So then, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone, and especially to those who are of the household of faith."

Galatians 6:10 (ESV)


Allow me to introduce you to my faithful blogging companion Coconut, a female Maltese who is the youngest (and arguably the cutest) member of our household

Now I'd like to acquaint you with a group of churches established in 1998 called the Household of Faith Fellowship of Churches (HOFFC).  According to their website:

"HOFFC is at the heart of an exciting movement that the Holy Spirit is bringing to the contemporary church as God raises up a host of like-minded family-integrated churches across the land. These churches work from the biblical mandate of helping equip parents to disciple their children. Rather than dividing families at the door, the family engages in the church experience together, as a unit. Pastors / Elders walk alongside parents who have discovered God’s call upon them to make the home the primary place of discipleship for the entire family.

Jesus Christ remains central to our churches. We preach expository messages, maintaining a continuous emphasis upon living out the gospel before our children, the church and the world. Discipleship is not reserved for the church staff, or conducted always through many staff-led programs; rather, there is a complementarian partnership between church and home, both recognizing the home as the primary conduit of the gospel from one generation the next.

HOFFC is an association – a family – of like-minded, evangelical, autonomous family-integrated churches. Since the 90s, HOFFC has grown from one small congregation in Portland, OR, into hundreds of families in various states across the country. Churches and families alike have experienced much joy and fruitfulness in this great adventure of uniting church and home in working toward this gospel-centered vision.

Today fathers, embracing their biblical callings, are growing in their roles as shepherds, theologians and disciplers of their own families. Godly mothers are walking alongside their husbands with a fresh sense of security, joy and purpose. Children are encouraged knowing that their best spiritual mentors are the ones who know them the best."

If you have the time, take a look at this forty-one minute documentary that gives an overview of this church movement.

This is their vision, mission, and purpose:

"Household of Faith Fellowship of Churches (HOFFC) is an association of like-minded, autonomous, evangelical, family-integrated churches. We are bound together with brotherly affection, our mutual love for the person of Jesus Christ, and our commitment to fulfilling the Great Commission. Everything we do is intended to fit within that context, as we demonstrate our love for Christ by faithfully preaching the uncompromised gospel and “contending for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.” (Jude 1)

Today, many churches have usurped, and many families have abdicated, the God-ordained responsibility of parents to raise their own children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. Along with hundreds of other Family-Integrated Churches, HOFFC is reforming this trend by intentionally equipping heads of households to shepherd their own families.

Alarmed at the rate at which the Church in America is losing its children to the world, there is an obvious need to reform the church – to restore the biblical relationships and mandates of both church and home…"

HOFCC was founded in mid-Augut 1998 in Portland, Oregon in the home of Gregg and Sono Harris.  Gregg and Sono are the parents of Joshua Harris (pastor of Covenant Life Church) and his brothers Alex and Brett are Rebelutionaries.  Several years ago I "dug down deep" into Joshua Harris' background, which you can read here.  Joshua moved from Portland, Oregon to Gaithersburg, Maryland in 1997 in order to be mentored by C.J. Mahaney.  In case you weren't aware, Sono Harris passed away on July 4, 2010, and we are mindful of the fact that the Harris family will be marking the second anniversary of her death a week from today. 

According to the website, HOFFC has had three distinctives from its inception: 

1. Restoring a more biblical relationship between church and home
2. Raising up fathers as the shepherds and disciplers of their own families
3. Planting new family-integrated churches

Several more household of faith churches were started in the Portland area, and then other churches began to pattern themselves after these churches.  In 2008-09 the Household of Faith Family of Churches (HOFFC) was established.  It has since "adopted" other congregations into the "Fellowship of Churches".   These family integrated churches (FICs), which now total TWELVE, are listed in the National Center for Family Integrated Churches (NCFIC) Network of Churches.  If you are not familiar with FICs, we recommend you read a previous post at TWW called What Are Family Integrated Churches?

Last fall we focused on FICs and a documentary advocating for them called Divided.  Here are several posts that provide some information abot the Family Integrated Church concept.  

NCFIC, Vision Forum and the Bottom Line

"Divided" Lives up to Its Name

Divided – A Review

Family Integrated Church Wrap-Up

We  believe an excellent way to learn about an organization is to survey the books they read and the links they recommend, as noted below.

Recommended Links: 

Council for Family Integrated Churches (C4FIC)

Family Integrated Church

Institute for Uniting Church and Home

Together for the Gospel

National Center for Family Integrated Churches

Noble Institute

The Rebelution

Sovereign Grace Ministries

Council on Blblical Manhood and Womanhood CBMW)

World Magazine

 

Suggested Reading:

Systematic Theology – Wayne Grudem

Desiring God – John Piper

Family Driven Faith – Voddie Baucham

Don't Waste Your Life – John Piper

9 Marks of a Healthy Church – Mark Dever

Feed My Sheep – R. Albert Mohler

What Is a Healthy Church – Mark Dever

What He Must Be – Voddie Baucham

I Kissed Dating Goodbye – Joshua Harris

Boy Meets Girl – Joshua Harris

Biblical Foundations for Manhood and Womanhood – Wayne Grudem

Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood – Piper and Grudem

Father, Son, and Holy Spirit – Bruce Ware

Do Hard Things – Alex and Brett Harris

Start Here – Alex and Brett Harris

The brief history included below acknowleges that there have been bumps in the road (and Dee will discuss one such bump tomorrow). 

"HOFCC is in its 13th year; though there have been bumps along the way, we continue to rejoice in what God began here in 1998. We see what God has wrought in our own lives and in local families. We celebrate as we see our youth standing against the culture and growing into faithful men and women ready to lead their own families as productive members of the Body of Christ."

Hopefully, this background information has provided you with a better understanding of HOFFC.  As you read subsequent posts, you may want to refer back to this information. 

Lydia's Corner:   Amos 1:1-3:15   Revelation 2:1-17   Psalm 129:1-8   Proverbs 29:19-20

 

 

 

Comments

Household of Faith Fellowship of Churches – An Overview — 79 Comments

  1. A few things caught my attention:

    "We are bound together with brotherly affection" —

    Sounds very unnatural, contrived.  Forced.  Brotherly affection perhaps defined by enthusiastic agreement and a united stance.  I suspect there's a kind of happy, smiley, harmonious uniform that they are expected to put on.  One that frowns on questioning and variety of perspective.  A weighty garment that snuffs out the gut instinct of dissent.

     

    "Alarmed at the rate at which the Church in America is losing its children to the world…"

    "We celebrate as we see our youth standing against the culture and growing into faithful men and women ready to lead their own families as productive members of the Body of Christ."

    The words "the world" and "the culture" struck me.  Similarly to how the word "regenerate" or "evidence of regeneration" struck me as they made their way into the comments of the "sinner's prayer" post of yesterday.  I am wondering how much "christian culture" factors in here. 

    Someone can be entirely "regenerate" (hate that word more than i can say — sounds like a venereal disease), changed by the power of the holy spirit deep inside, yet still not resemble the christian people of one's christian community (which, like it or not, does indeed exist in it's own thick, heavy culture). 

    I wonder to what degree christians define "regenerate" and evidence for it according to what we expect to see:  women are submissive and cheerfully supportive, people in general exhibit a gentle and gracious demeanor, language is sanitized and affected with certain words, they appear happy, smiley, supportive, self-sacrificing, they enthusiastically attend bible studies and prayer meetings, in fact they pray out loud, they can quote an assortment of (predictable) bible verses, their home life and family life look a certain way, they vote a certain way, express political views of a certain stripe. 

    Here's a secret:  the power of the Holy Spirit is simply not needed for any of these things. 

    And, in reality all of these things can actually be masks for insecurity, timidity, fear, low self esteem, resentment, pretense, denial, dishonesty, cowardice, enablement of something wrong & destructive if not criminal, social climbing, lack of healthy boundaries.   

    Meanwhile, the person who does not adopt these behaviors and ways but whose name is in fact written in the Lamb's Book of Life (whatever that is) and who has been retooled by the Holy Spirit in ways specific to them deep inside is labled "of the world" and its culture BUT in reality is the person who is assertive, self-confident, genuine, comfortable with how capable they are, honest, brave, owning their own thoughts.  In short, THEY are the ones in God's fast lane, and getting the best mileage.

     

     

     

  2. "Today fathers, embracing their biblical callings, are growing in their roles as shepherds, theologians and disciplers of their own families."  

    And here we have the source of the well-documented and common attitude in these circles that theology is for boys.  If the girls can't think, they won't know when the boys are wrong and that makes joyful submission so much easier, right?   Sometimes the gender roles in these circles touch areas you might not expect.  

    For instance, my family once attended a presentation at a local church by a guy who had a life-size reconstruction of the Tabernacle.  (It was an evening thing and some of the moms had little doily headcoverings.)  It was a cool presentation, and afterwards you could go up and try to get sound of the big shofar he had.  I'm a musician so I went up.  It was me and five boys, and since I have singer's lungs, I got sound of it right away.  (None of the boys did.)  Meanwhile other parents were giving mom weird looks, as if she had just violated some unspoken gender rule by letting her GIRL touch the shofar at all.  

  3. Hester,

    Yes, this movement has been well-documented, and I am grateful that we can use their own words to demonstrate that there are serious problems in these patriarchal churches.

    Interestingly, there are ties to Doug Phillips, who was interviewed by Alex and Brett Harris for the Jamestown 400 Vision Forum celebration.

    Rebelution Interview with Doug Phillips

  4. @ Deb:

     

    We actually went to his "American 400" keynote speech at the 2007 MASSHope homeschool convention in Worcester, MA.  That was before I knew what he was really like.  I think we bought the recording of it and it's somewhere in our house – I wonder if there's any gems on it?  I remember he started with some kind of weird monument with severed Saracen heads at the top of it.  He may have been bemoaning the fact that we couldn't erect monuments like that anymore.  I don't really remember.  Better find that recording…

  5. Found it!  The monument, that is.  It's the John Smith Monument in NH.  I knew it had to have something to do with Jamestown.

    "…the triangular base and cap of the monument symbolizes the 'three Turks head' that John Smith decapitated during his early days as a soldier of fortune on the Crusades in Transylvania.  (This was before his trip to America and meeting with Pocahontas.)  Originally the monument had a tall marble column in the center and that was topped with carvings of three Turkish 'bashas' whom Smith reportedly defeated in one-on-one combat."

    http://seacoastnh.com/monuments/smith.html

  6. The following is an analogy:   When one has been expected to bench 250lbs at the age of thirteen and the average teen can only bench 125 then developing programs to bench 250 pounds though sounds reasonable will be in actuality overwhelming. My concerns with what I am seeing in the Family Integrated Church Movement is many single parent mothers an or dads even will be left out in the cold. I have yet to see this problem addressed effectively in the Family Integrated books I have read. Also the element of gangs are reduced with having some sort of youth program.  Addressing age segregation has been a good idea within the movement and parents need to be involved but some mentoring aspects have to be in placed outside a single parent home. Gang involvement research supports this as well.

  7. Hester,

    I heard Doug Phillips speak at the 1998 North Carolina Homeschoolers Annual Conference.  Been there, done that…

  8. HOFFC is an association – a family – of like-minded, evangelical, autonomous family-integrated churches. Since the 90s, HOFFC has grown from one small congregation in Portland, OR, into hundreds of families in various states across the country. Churches and families alike have experienced much joy and fruitfulness in this great adventure of uniting church and home in working toward this gospel-centered vision.

    This sounds like pure Spin.  Advertising hype.  Buzzword Bingo.  "Like-minded, evangelical, autonomous family-integrated…"  (Deb & Dee have written about a "family-integrated" movement, and "autonomous" can mean totally independent, drifting off into CULT-land without any reality check.)  "Joy and fruitfulness…"; "gospel-centered vision…"

    Then their claim of fantastic growth, with Focusing The Family.  Deb, Dee, where have we heard that before?  And what actually came of it?

    Today fathers, embracing their biblical callings, are growing in their roles as shepherds, theologians and disciplers of their own families. Godly mothers are walking alongside their husbands with a fresh sense of security, joy and purpose. Children are encouraged knowing that their best spiritual mentors are the ones who know them the best."

    More Buzzword Bingo, with echoes of Marxspeak.  "Biblical callings… Shepherds, theologians, and disciplers of their own families…" (Remember the Shepherding/Discipling Movement?  I sure do.  Still got the scars from those control freaks.)  "Godly.. Walking alongside their husbands…"  (Not three steps behind in a burqa, leading half a dozen stair-step kids?  This is starting to sound like Comp/Patrio/Male Supremacist Crapsaccharine-speak.)  "Fresh sense of security, joy, and purpose…"  Again, Buzzword Bingo.

    As a loser who was never able to marry, there is NOTHING in this for me except another series of Godly (TM) putdowns.  And a lot of the buzzwords and promises sound like the stuff Deb & Dee have written about the Handmaid's Tale wanna-bes you growing like tares inside the churches.

  9. We are bound together with brotherly affection" —

    Sounds very unnatural, contrived.  Forced.  Brotherly affection perhaps defined by enthusiastic agreement and a united stance.  I suspect there's a kind of happy, smiley, harmonious uniform that they are expected to put on.  One that frowns on questioning and variety of perspective.  A weighty garment that snuffs out the gut instinct of dissent. — Elastigirl

    Like Happy North Koreans in their Perfect Paradise, dancing Joyfully with Great Enthusiasm before Comrade Dear Leader?

    Some of their stuff even has a similar rhythm and buzzword density to Marxist duckspeak:

    1) …growing in their roles as shepherds, theologians and disciplers of their own families. Godly mothers are walking alongside their husbands with a fresh sense of security, joy and purpose.

    2)  "Inevitable triumph of the Marxist-Leninist Dialectic in the Class Struggle against Reactionary Capitalism to achieve True Communism…"

    (Speaking of which, how does "Culture War to Restore a Christian Nation" differ rhetorically from "Class Struggle to Achieve True Communism"?)

    I wonder to what degree christians define "regenerate" and evidence for it according to what we expect to see:  women are submissive and cheerfully supportive, people in general exhibit a gentle and gracious demeanor, language is sanitized and affected with certain words, they appear happy, smiley, supportive, self-sacrificing, they enthusiastically attend bible studies and prayer meetings, in fact they pray out loud, they can quote an assortment of (predictable) bible verses, their home life and family life look a certain way, they vote a certain way, express political views of a certain stripe. — Elastigirl

    Remember all the preaching against CULTS(TM)?  About the robotic CULTists with their Thougtstopper speech and shiny glassy eyes?

    (Aside:  A CULT(TM) doesn't have to be based around a religion per se.  Extreme Fascism (Naziism), Communism, and Objectivism were Political Cults, with much the same dynamics.  Just their God was their political system or socio-economic philosophy.)

     

  10. HUG,

    I am very sad for the women and young girls trapped in family-integrated churches.  You are so right with all of your “observations”. 

  11. Eagle,

    I will make a promise.  I will NEVER buy the English Standard Version of the Bible! 

    The first time I ever saw an ESV was in my Sunday School class.  It was in either 2003 or 2004, and my SS teacher used it.  I was fascinated because I had  never seen that version before.  I was tempted to go out and buy one so I could read from the same translation in class, but then our church changed the scheduling and we ended switching out of that class so we could attend SS and the service at the same time as our daughters.

    Must have been divine providence.  :-)

    BTW, we left that church plant after seeing some serious shenanigans. Rumor had it that one of the elders REALLY REALLY REALLY wanted John Piper to come and pastor the church. He pestered JP so much that Piper told him to NEVER contact him again!

  12. Eagle, Not long ago someone pointed me to the publisher of the ESV and to look at the other books they published. Interesting list. Seems the same folks who make a huge deal of the ESV being more "literal" (which is a horrible descriptor for a translation if one understands translating) are the same folks having their books promoted by the publisher.

     

    Always follow the money.

  13. Eagle,

    The very same thought occurred to me.  People in those categories would not fit in the FIC mold. I wonder whether Jesus and Paul would have felt welcome by this crowd…

  14. Eagle,

    I have been using the NASB for quite a while, and it just happens to be the Bible Wade Burleson uses most frequently.  I have a variety of translations – NASB, NIV, NLT, KJV, NKJV, and possibly others. 

    Did I mention that I will NEVER own the ESV???

  15. My huband and kids were taking Taekwondo classes from a couple that have a FIC ministry on the side.  We live just outside of Portland and I would bet that they're associated with what the Harris family has started.  They tried to get us to go to their marriage retreats, but I never bought into it.  I saw how the husband and wife related to each other and I knew that their idea of how a marriage should operate was not the same as ours.  They have a son and daughter that they have indoctrinated in this FIC culture.  We just keep waiting to hear if they'll rebel and break free from their parents "protection."

  16. I have attended HOFCC churches.  Eagle asked how singles, divorced, widowed, could fit in these churches.   Good question.  My observation is not very well.  The families come from cookie cutter molds:  large families, quiver-full, homeschooling, etc.  There is a strong emphasis on taking care of older parents, so some families have grandma living with them and grandma joins at church.  You do not see many divorced people or single-parent families.  When you see singles, by and large, they will be living at home with parents, especially the adult daughters.  Adult daughters generally stay at home until they are married, usually to someone within the church. 
     

  17. Dee and Deb,

    I find the background of this denomination disturbing.  I took the time to watch the video.  It's so misleading.  All the happy smiling faces of families spending time together…then the constant refrain of "men, leading their families and churches and using their spiritual gifts."  Wow.  I guess the women don't have spiritual gifts?  Sheesh. 

    This gives depth and context for the "bump" you will be sharing about soon for sure!  Looking forward to your next post.

  18. Harbor Girl,

    I watched the entire video as well.  They are definitely trying to “sell” their FIC approach, but I’m not buying.  the “bump” is pretty incredible, and that’s all I’ll say at this point.  Dee will be posting it later today.  May we all learn from what she shares.

  19. Ah, the "Mean Girls" of Wartburg Hi. have picked out their latest victim for their followers to attack.  On cue, the faithful followers do just that.

    "Sickened" by the ESV

    "Disturbing" is the household of faith churches

    "North Korea" – "Maxist, Leninist dialetic."  (This family of churches are terrible people, obviously) 

    "Unnatural, contrived, forced"

    Yep, the "mean girls" at Wartburg Hi have indicated the next victim of their malice and their followers are attacking.

  20. Jimmy,

    Long time no see.  One of our commenters was inquiring about your thoughts in the aftermath of the Sandusky verdict.  Perhaps you’d like to chime in.

    So what do you know about family-integrated churches?   

  21. Hi, Jimmy!
    What do you think about the family integrated church idea and the three “distinctives”?

  22. Sounds like a cult to me! First, losing a family member sucks and the anniversary of a death can be very painful and I hope the Harris' find peace. Second, what the Harris' are doing is running a cult – I am more familiar with Josh "Boy Wonder" Harris because of my previous SGM affiliation. It's amazing how close the beliefs are between SGM and this "family of churches". They even use the same terminology for denomination! It's just more of the same Boy's Club lies that the patriarchy crowd has been spewing for years. Josh Harris' books are disturbing and scary and have cause much damage among the SGM singles. He has stories in his book of couples that are now divorced or going through a divorce. sgmsurvivors has pretty good documentation of this. Bottom line is that it sounds like a cult.

    My one question is how do the females agree to marry into this junk? I guess being told "their place" since birth has an effect on their psyche. What they have been taught seems to be far from what Jesus taught – he had no problem with women (unmarried at that!) who followed him.

    Thanks for pointing this group out!

    BTW – I will also NEVER own an ESV Bible, it seems written just to prove "systematic theology" (which I have a HUGE problem with). 

  23. For the record – I read out of my NIV bible.

    Question – why do these people hate women so much??? I'm single and more and more feel that there is nowhere for me to go to church. I think I will visit once again, a LCMS church down the street. I don't understand all of the liturgy but I didn't feel like a second class citizen.

    I'm sad. Feels like no one likes the single woman. Jesus died for me too, you know!!!!!

  24. The sad irony about "losing children to the world…" is, of course, that the kids need to get the hell away from such incredibly controlling, stifling environments.

    They are "losing children" to normal life, and – hopefully – freedom from the indoctrination and abuses that they forced on them.

     

  25. Freedom:  They also use SGM music – a lot of SGM music.

    Regarding how the females agree to "marry into this junk"?  Simple:  the courtship model is the norm there.  The young man first needs to pass the test and get the blessing from the young lady's father.  After passing the test and receiving the blessing of the father, the young man may ask to court the daughter. 

    This really is a culture.

  26. numo,

    Interesting that you should use the word “indoctrination”.  That’s what this crowd says about those outside their religious system, such as families who send their children off to “government schools”. 

    Remember this post I wrote last fall about the documentary   Indocrination ?

     

  27. Jewel,

    Thanks for pointing out that they really like SGM music.  Here’s the evidence.  The Household of Faith churches listed on the NCFIC website provide this description for the style of music in the worship services.

    “Classic Hymns and Contemporary Hymns full of sound doctrine and set to easily singable melodies (e.g. Sovereign Grace Ministries)”

    HOFCC Gresham, Oregon

     

  28. Deb – yep. They use words without really understanding that those words apply to them.

    And they’re going to lose most of their kids, if only because:

    1. Kids are supposed to grow up and move on to their own lives

    2. their kids are going to start realizing that they’ve been raised in a cult and want to get out

    3. Abuse/indoctrination by cult leaders – in other words, not just “pastors,” but parents.

  29. Deb,

    I won't own a NLT either.

    And here is one reason why:

    Genesis 3:16c And you will desire to control your husband,

  30. Like father like son. HUG since you referenced North Korea which has the first communist succession in world history between Kim Il Sung, Kim Jong Il and Kim Jong Un…how appropriate that we look at the succession between a father and son between a church in Oregon and SGM in Maryland. — Eagle

    Absolute Hereditary Monarchy is Absolute Hereditary Monarchy, no matter what the trappings.

  31. Yep, the "mean girls" at Wartburg Hi have indicated the next victim of their malice and their followers are attacking. — Jimmy

    You forgot "doubleplusgoldsteinist", Comrade Jimmy.  Otherwise…

    doubleplusgoodthink, comrade!

    doubleplusgood doubleplusduckspeak!

  32. Jimmy, my Man!

    So how's it going?? Somehow, in some sort of way, deep down inside, I kinda, sorta missed ya! I know you don't really mean it, do you? Somewhere in the bowels of your heart, you know you love us!

    Mean Girls-huh? Well, you could at least call us glamorous mean girls. I think you might see are real concern in the posts over the next couple of days.

  33. @ Casey:

     

    "My concerns with what I am seeing in the Family Integrated Church Movement is many single parent mothers an or dads even will be left out in the cold. I have yet to see this problem addressed effectively in the Family Integrated books I have read."

     

    It's not addressed, because their interpretive paradigm is inadequate to address it.  They've made parenthood into the highest calling possible even though nearly half the New Testament was written by a single man (Paul) and Jesus Himself never married.  And let's not even get into the fact that Paul considered singleness to be a preferable state to marriage.  It's not good to overvalue marriage so much that singles (esp. older singles) are devalued.  There is ample testimony available on the internet to prove that this happens all the time, esp. in FIC-leaning churches.  I mean, I want to get married too, but I can't say that everyone else should do that too.

  34. I have just a minute, but would like to stimulate a biblical discussion, to look at FIC from a biblical perspective and ask the question, IS IT BIBLICAL?
    Everyone think of the very best family or families actually chronicled in scripture, and compare and contrast with the ideal family of the FIC folks.

  35. Biblical Discussion #2:

    Everyone look at ladybugs from a biblical perspective and develop a doctrine on the significance of the fact that they are red and have spots.  Prize will be given for the doctrine that I deem to be most biblical. 

    Then, we will put a "Ladybugs Day" on the church calendar and have a topical sermon in celebration.

    And who wants to help me develop a line of Ladybugs Day greeting cards, framed art, and a daily devotional calendar devoted to the topic?  I sense a money  maker here. 

  36. Or, for another angle, consider NT Apostles and disciples, and all that we are Never Told about their families. Peter, for example, brought to Jesus by his brother, and brought Jesus to his mother-in-law. Wife and kids???

  37. I'd be intrigued if anyone could post a list of some SGM-favoured tunes here, btw.

    Jimmy, don't be mean to the Wartburg girls.  The rest of you, don't be mean to Jimmy!

  38. Whenever I think of FIC, I think of Voddie Baucham and whatever good may be present in FIC is instantly tainted by the things I have heard come out of his  mouth.

    So-Scott Brown el chiefo patriarch is the director of the NCFIC. Had my dose of a whole lot of crazy reading there,

    http://scottbrownonline.com/

    but I like to read about these leaders’ families to see how their practices gel. Unfortunately, I have to go to the evil blogs to see the un-rosy truth. Just how is this all marriage is the be-all end-all and motherhood working out for their children? And in particular, for a VF princess daughter?

    This is sad.

    http://ingridgraceandaudrey.blogspot.com/2012/06/portrait-of-lady.html

    I feel sorry for Kelly and, although she at least at one time bought into being the VF princess (who knows what she thinks now), she picked her husband knowing who he was (bff of Doug Phillips) and what he expected from her from what I have read. You can find out about her if you search. At one point she had no hot water in her home and had to boil it on the stove and evidently lived that way for quite a while. Her husband would not buy a sufficient sized water heater for their home. I cannot imagine that situation with all those children. Nor can I understand why she/her husband evidently blogged about boiling water on the stove and why Kelly's family did not provide one immediately when they found out. Shall I love my children like that? No thanks. Maybe now that Peter is Kelly's HEAD, only he can do anything for her now…all that transferred authority from dad to husband junk.

    This picture of her in a family photo is sad…she is the only one not smiling.

    http://scottbrownonline.com/about/

     

  39. <i><b>Biblical Discussion #2:

    Everyone look at ladybugs from a biblical perspective and develop a doctrine on the significance of the fact that they are red and have spots.  Prize will be given for the doctrine that I deem to be most biblical. 

    Then, we will put a "Ladybugs Day" on the church calendar and have a topical sermon in celebration.

    And who wants to help me develop a line of Ladybugs Day greeting cards, framed art, and a daily devotional calendar devoted to the topic?  I sense a money  maker here. <i></b>

    Oh my yes! This would be perfect for Hallmark and other card companies per making big bucks.

    I'm in! ;)

     

     

  40. elastigirl – I also see a gazillion opportunities for an urban legend (or maybe more than one?) re. ladybugs – like the stories that are currently circulating about the supposed religious significance of candy canes. (See Snopes.com for details.)

  41. Deb,

    Coconut is as precious as precious can get!  My wife and I have a little girl whose name is Fancy.  She's an Italian Greyhound & Chihuahua mix with a brindled coat.  She's a very pretty girl.

  42. Deb and Muff – aww!

    I have a rabbit – Nibbles – who lives inside with me, is litter-trained and is who is quite a glamorous Queen Bunny herself. She's a black and white Dutch, weights about 3 lbs., and is both sweet and very mischievous. Now I know why rabbits and hares are trickster figures in so many legends and folk tales! ;)

    Muff, I don't suppose you have a link to a pic of Fancy? Sounds like a very interesting mix!

     

     

  43. @ Diane:

     

    Wow…  I didn't know all that about Kelly Bradrick.  Poor girl.  She clearly shouldn't be having any more children after 2+ medical emergencies that nearly killed her and/or the baby.  But that usually doesn't matter to hardcore Quiverfull families.  For instance, I know a family with 11 kids.  The doctors told the mom on about baby #7 to stop having kids.  The last four or so she had gestational diabetes, and finally the last one was born with Downs Syndrome.  Not surprisingly, the mom looks about 10-15 years older than her calendar age.

  44. Eagle

    Any guy who uses a hat over his face and names stones has a screw loose. Not to mention the salamander situation. 

  45. The name and phrase "Lady Bug Day" and "Lady Bug Theological Study", etc., need to be copyrighted.  Then you sell the right to make and sell "Lady Bug Day" cards to Hallmark for $.10 per card, and cut your attorney for a penny or two.

  46. BTW, we left that church plant after seeing some serious shenanigans. Rumor had it that one of the elders REALLY REALLY REALLY wanted John Piper to come and pastor the church. He pestered JP so much that Piper told him to NEVER contact him again! — Deb

    i.e. "GET THEE BEHIND ME, DROOLING FANBOY!!!:

  47. Any guy who uses a hat over his face and names stones has a screw loose. Not to mention the salamander situation. — Dee

    Though I believe the "Salamander Letter" proving the latter was later found to be a hoax/forgery.

    And South Park played up Joseph Smith as a con man who made it good. ("DUM! DUM! DUM! DUM! DUM!")

  48. Diane,

    Kelly Brown Bradrick has a beautiful smile in her wedding photos.

    Wedding of Peter Bradrick and Kelly Brown

    From the picture on Scott Brown's website, it looks like they now have four children after having been married for six years.  Sounds about right…

    Kelly's husband is the one who wrote and produced the documentary Divided, which is mentioned in this post.

     

     

     

  49. Muff,

    You are very kind.  As it turns out, Coconut should have been named Shadow because she follows me wherever I go and is always by my side.  I’d love to see a picture of “Fancy”.  Love that name!

  50. numo,

    I don’t know anything about rabbits.  I had no idea they were tricksters.  Nibbles – what a great name!

  51. "Now, Kelly Bradrick has given birth to her fifth child, Michael Courage Bradrick, less than a year after her last medical emergency. This time the baby was five weeks early and is currently in the NICU. Frankly, I’m horrified. If Michael was due in June, then that means there was only a four-month gap between Kelly’s pregnancies. I’ve never heard of such a thing…even among my mom’s friends who did not use birth control and had 5+ kids. What is the point of all of this? I know Scott Brown coined the term "Militant Fecundity" but this is ridiculous! Take a look at this video that Peter and Kelly made to wish Doug Phillips Happy Birthday from the NICU:"

    This is in the link I posted, Deb.

  52. Diane,

    I was in a hurry earlier and didn’t click on the link discussing Kelly’s FIFTH child being born since her wedding in August 2006!!!

    Thanks for sharing that. 

  53. It's so scary to watch all this unfold. HOFFOF-lmnop, should join forces with Gov. Perry and the Texas folks who want to stop teaching critical thinking skills in public schools. Suggesting that this takes away from the parental(and by this maybe they mean the father's) influence, but gives students the skills needed to think for themselves. 

    I live in a culture where critical thinking skills are not taught. And sadly, those with any sense of individual thought or preference are at best, social outcasts. And it doesn't take long on 'goggle' to read about those under house arrest, or who simply 'disappear'. All in an effort to control the population.

    This sort of control, brain-washing, soul-imprisonment becomes extremely sad and frightening as it takes hold in the chrisitan religion. 

    I hope I'm way off base here. I'm certainly open to be corrected. 

  54. When I first started going to an evangelical church as a young teen it was great.  All the teens there loved Jesus just like me and we would all sit together during the church service.  This was especially good for me because my mother did not go to church.  I was an only child in a single parent home and my mother was not a church goer at all.  So I went with a friend of mine who brought me to youth group in the first place.  The youth group had been a life line at a time of great pain and confusion.  Because of the relationships I was beginning to develop with the other kids there I was beginning to have something suspciously like hope.

    This lasted about a month.  Then out of the blue it seemed, the youth group leader made up a whole bunch of new rules that, had I been narcisistic I might have thought were aimed specifically at me to ruin my church experience and drive me away.  Among the new rules was the youth could no longer sit together during service but had to sit with their family.  This was widely supported by the church as a whole, being that it was the golden age of Gothard.  I was the only teen who did not have a family at church.

    I never felt so alone in my life. 

  55. Jerry Sandusky goes to prison; will die there.   Earthly justice is done.  In the O.T. he would have been killed.

    Can't give you a status update on his relationship to the Living God.

  56. Auugh. Piper "the Sandusky equivalent'? What the he….Some nerve please make the analogies fit appropriately.

  57.  I don't get Piper's doctrine on squelching women speaking in an assembly but please he is NOT anything like Sandusky.

  58. Deb – she was given the name "Nibbles" at the shelter where I adopted her. I thought about changing her name, but she already knew it and it's cute (and fits her), so there we are.

    There's lots of great info. at http://www.rabbit.org

     

  59. numo, an attorney — How does one go about creating an urban legend?  This is getting interesting.

  60. Elastigirl,

    Create a good story, maybe with a video for utube, put it out as a true explanation of the video or some event in the larger world and voila, if it gets picked up, it can become an urban legend.  Lots of stories have a life of their own — my favorite is the false story about the alleged petition to the FCC by atheists to take religious programming off the air, which has been viral on a number of occasions for over 40 years.

    Be careful not to make any false statements about a named living person or a deceased 'star' who has a trademarked name that others are making money exploiting.

  61. Thank you Deb.

     

    Yes, I've gotten past it, though I did notice as I was typing it out I got a little weepy.  However, I think my case and the many others like it with singles, or worse (from the receiving end) divorcees, or anyone else who does not fill a father, mother, or child role in a family within the context of church shows this is the wrong view of Chrisitanity.  There are verses about family and how family members should treat each other, yes.  (Not a few in these movements need to go and learn what these mean, especially the husbands love your wives verse.  For some this exercise might produce the greatest benefit if done from a prison cell.  But I digress.)  But family per se is not the main thing in Christianity.

     

    Speaking of divorcees, I was just reading somewhere recently a review of that movie Courageous you discussed a few days ago.  This reviewer noticed that the one guy who didn't fulfill his resolution was the token divorcee in the film.  What kind of message do you suppose that sends?

  62. Another false story is the Proctor and Gamble logo.  I am sure that others can provide examples.  The best spreaders of "urban legends" are a segment of conservative Christians who appear to believe almost anything the see or read on the net or in an email.  So one that has some implication that they might see as a threat to their faith will inevitably get a lot of play, as will anything they think supports the existence of witches.

    One of my favorite ULs is that the Supreme Court ruled that kids cannot pray at school — total misrepresentation.  Only that the government (school, teachers, etc.) cannot put kids through a religious exercise at school.  I think every kid prays, especially at exam time.

  63. An Attorney

    Do you know how many pastors and Bible study leaders have forwarded me the Proctor and Gamble thing. i always respond curtly, informing them the P&G has hired attorneys to go after people who spread such rumors (they did). That usually quiets people down.

  64. OH! my gosh! I have been looking for that video since they recorded it at Household of Faith Community Church back in 2007 or sometime! My husband and son are in that video and we are NOT a part of that church anymore. The eldership split back in 2008 sometime over some kind of power struggle between the elders. There was so much that happened, but this was after our family left that congregation in so much grief over their anti-woman teachings and the huge scripture twistings and the promotion of the Harris family's money making agenda!

    This dredges up so many painful memories….. If they were hiding that hideous sin of pedophilia while just continuing to jockey for power amongst the male elders…. disgusting!

    Some of those male elders featured in that video and some not featured, started completely separate churches from Gregg Harris' main church in Gresham, Oregon (the mother ship).

    I don't give a rip about gossip anymore. That is used as a tactic to shut people up in defense of "christian decorum". I'm a believer in Jesus Christ, the Way the Truth and the Life, and will listen to his voice, not the voice of some poser vying for power.

  65. an attorney —

    hmmmm….(wringing hands in focussed thought)…..   AHA!  we'll bring in the element of EEEEEVIL.  (now rubbing hands together slowly)….. 

    The laydbugs will have to remain the hero (or heroine) because our product line will be sold partly based on how cute they are.  So, it will be the EEEEVIL more pear-shaped green ladybugs who, as it turns out, are the ones who go out and forage and bring back food for the littl'ns in the nest which is nurtured by the respective green manbug.  These villains are pitted against the sweet red ladybugs who, as nature would have it, prefer to be the nurturers of their nest.  They are, of course, symbolically perfectly circular as well as clothed in sacramental red for emphasis.  

    I'm giving away all my ideas here. 

  66. elastigirl

    Just add at the end "copyright 2012 elastigirl".  Then your idea is protected.  Actually, use a real name.

  67. Kathleem

    You go! I no longer care about the misuse of the word “gossip” any longer. It has been used to perpetrate silence in the church instaed of bringing stories like this out into the open. That video is an eyeopener. If you want to email me privately, I would love to see your family iin it and I won’t tell a soul!!

  68. dee —

    we're even creating jobs here!!

    wow — all as a result of the words "it's biblical"! 

    but i guess we're not all that original.  been done before, quite a few times.

     

  69. I wrote you all awhile back in regards to women being able to be judges in assemblie much as Deborah was in Israel.  I was remembering this morning how Phyllis Schaffley in the last election cylce ripped Mike Huckabee up and down about his what exactly hi "conservative" principles were and also some of his ethical practices with regard to how he use personal money as a governor of Arkansas. In remember reading some of those issues she had, to be honest Mike was being eccletic in his approach as governor and ignored the aspects of the law at times. In thinking what Phyllis wrote I was thinking Mike needed to respond,  The signpost of the Torah is never torn down in this age.

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