Are Plumbing Lines Weapons of Child Destruction?

The consequences of your denial will be with you for a lifetime and will be passed down to the next generations. Break your Silence on Abuse! – Patty Rase Hopson
 


plumbing line
 

 

Consider this headline: “Is Conservative Christian Group, No Greater Joy Ministries, Pushing Parents to Beat Kids to Death?”

 

Here’s how the article begins:

 

“Prosecutors say that earlier this month Kevin and Elizabeth Schatz of Paradise, Calif., beat their 7-year-old daughter to death with quarter-inch plastic tubing because she mispronounced a word. They say the girl's parents held her down and whipped her for hours causing massive tissue damage that resulted in her death.”

 

The CBS News article describes the death of a four year old who lived not far from Dee and me. We remember this local news story very well, and it was and still is heartwrenching!

 

“On February 26, 2006, 4-year-old Sean Paddock died in Raleigh, N.C. He had been beaten with plastic tubing as a punishment. When that didn't work, his mother Lynn wrapped him in blankets so tightly that he suffocated. She was found guilty of murder.”

 

What was it that influenced these parents to take such harsh measures to “discipline” their kids? Here is what a Raleigh news outlet reported about Sean Paddock’s adopted mother:

 

“Lynn Paddock said she and her husband decided to use discipline techniques espoused by the Rev. Michael Pearl, an evangelical minister from Tennessee who publishes books and articles on rearing submissive children. She said swatting children with flexible plastic rods was preferred to spanking because it was less demeaning. ‘We liked Michael Pearl's (system) because it was quick (and) it didn't demean the child and bring their self-esteem down,’ she said.”

 

As the CBS News article (referenced above) states:

 

“These two families don't seem to have come up with their notions of discipline on their own. Both say they were inspired by a Christian group with nonprofit tax status, No Greater Joy Ministries.

No Greater Joy Ministries takes the Bible's notion that "He that spareth his rod hateth his son" as an edict for child-raising, or, as the ministry's website phrases it, "child training" via "biblical chastisement."

 

The Ministry's website says that "Proper application of the rod is indispensable to communicating the divine principle of retributive justice," and that people who avoid using the rod might be "emotional coward[s]."

 

No Greater Joy Ministries is a non-profit organization headed by Michael Pearl and his wife Debi. Michael Pearl is a pastor in Tennessee. The Pearl’s website claims that their book “To Train Up a Child” has over 450,000 copies in print. We decided to take a look at the book over at Amazon.com, and discovered that there are far more negative reviews of the Pearl’s book than positive ones.

 

What follows is a One-Star review of To Train Up A Child that is featured on Amazon. The reviewer includes a number of specific references to page numbers, which we believe are helpful in understanding the book’s instruction. Link here.

 

 

“As a Christian Mother I Was DISGUSTED, April 10, 2010

 

As a Christian mother myself, I cannot even begin to communicate my level of disgust with this book. I forced myself to read this cover to cover as a part of my university studies in child psychology and I was in literal tears on more than one occasion. This may be the single most disgusting piece of misguided twisting of Christian values I have ever read. Here I thought "Becoming Babywise" was bad, but this one is FAR worse. This kind of child abuse is never acceptable and I'm a bit shocked that Amazon would continue to carry this book. Any book that advocates hitting a 4 month old in ANY context, let alone with a foreign object, should be labeled what it is – a child abuse manual.

 

Some "highlights" from the book include:

 

1) The Pearls recommend whipping infants only a few months old on their bare skin. They describe whipping their own 4 month old daughter (p.9). They recommend whipping the bare skin of "every child" (p.2) for "Christians and non-Christians" (p.5) and for "every transgression" (p.1). Parents who don't whip their babies into complete submission are portrayed as indifferent, lazy, careless and neglectful (p.19) and are "creating a Nazi" (p.45).

 

2) On p.60 they recommend whipping babies who cannot sleep and are crying, and to never allow them "to get up." On p.61 they recommend whipping a 12 month old girl for crying. On p.79 they recommend whipping a 7 month old for screaming.

 

3) On p.65 co-author Debi Pearl whips the bare leg of a 15 month old she is babysitting, 10 separate times, for not playing with something she tells him to play with. On p.56 Debi Pearl hits a 2 year old so hard "a karate chop like wheeze came from somewhere deep inside."

 

4) On p.44 they say not to let the child's crying while being hit to "cause you to lighten up on the intensity or duration of the spanking." On p.59 they recommend whipping a 3 year old until he is "totally broken."

 

5) On p.55 the Pearls say a mother should hit her child if he cries for her.

 

6) On p.46 the Pearls say that if a child does obey before being whipped, whip them anyway. And "if you have to sit on him to spank him, then do not hesitate. And hold him there until he is surrendered. Prove that you are bigger, tougher." "Defeat him totally." On p.80 they recommend giving a child having a tantrum "a swift *forceful* spanking." On the same page they say to whip small children on their bare skin until they stop screaming. "Don't be bullied. Give him more of the same." They say to continue whipping until their crying turns into a "wounded, submissive whimper."

 

7) On p.47 they recommend their various whips, including "a belt or larger tree branch" to hit children.

 

8) The Pearls recommend pulling a nursing infant's hair (p.7), and describe tripping their non-swimming toddler so she falls into deep water (p.67). They recommend ignoring an infant's bumped head when he falls to the floor, and ignoring skinned knees (p.86). They also say "if your child is roughed-up by peers, rejoice." (p.81) And on p.103 the Pearls say if children lose their shoes, "let them go without until they (the children) can make the money to buy more."

 

9) The Pearls claim their "training" methods are Godly, yet they have ‘no religious training or credentials’. They never mention Jesus' injunctions to forgive ‘seventy times seven’ and be merciful, and they decry the ‘extraordinary ignorance of modern psychology.’”

 

While I have not yet read To Train Up A Child, I plan to order a used copy and will follow up with my own book review. I believe it is important to understand first hand what is being taught by so-called experts. The Pearls have written several other books which they sell through their ministry, including No Greater Joy. Again, there are more negative reviews than positive ones at Amazon.

 

One could argue that the two innocent children mentioned in this post died at the hands of parents who took the Pearls' “discipline methods” to an extreme; however, they were using punishment techniques they learned from the Pearls.

 

In case you’re wondering how Michael Pearl responds to his critics, here is EXACTLY how he responded:

 

‘It has come to may attention that a vocal few are decrying our sensible application of the Biblical rod in training up our children. I laugh at my caustic critics…’

 

Laughter instead of tears… That single statement reveals the heart condition of Michael Pearl. For those in our reading audience who agree with the Pearls child rearing techniques, we want to ask this question:

 

If you corrected your dog in a public setting using the Pearls' recommended method of discipline, what do think that would happen? No doubt you know the answer. And as for parents who use this particular form of “child/infant training”, we believe Child Protective Services would be VERY interested in chatting with them…
 

Tune in tomorrow when we will wrap up our investigation into the Pearl’s “ministry” and share a few choice words with those who follow their abusive methods. We will postpone our Mark Driscoll post for a few days.

 

Lydia's Corner: Deuteronomy 18:1-20:20 Luke 9:28-50 Psalm 73:1-28  Proverbs 12:10

 

Comments

Are Plumbing Lines Weapons of Child Destruction? — 42 Comments

  1. Thank you for spreading the word. I have tons of info on the Pearls’ teachings on my website including a link to their book, To Train Up A Child which you can read online for free. You can also check out their website, nogreaterjoy.org and read their articles.

  2. I checked the date to see if was April Fool’s day, but no it’s not! I find it almost impossible to believe the teaching of this so called ministry. Also by calling themselves ‘No greater Joy’ and advocating such cruel practices would seem to imply that they must be some sort of sadists and need some mental and spiritual help.This has got to be stopped.

  3. Shepherding Survivor

    There is only one way to make this stuff stop. Report beating to the authorities. Many people do not understand that such reporting can be done confidentially and that the reporter cannot be sued for such a report.

    These people know that many Christians do not want to get involved. But, we have to. That is why I intend to make a report to CPS when we have any credible info forwarded to this blog and i don’t care if it is some small church or some arrogant rock star preacher church.

    TWW has already received some reports and we will begin looking into the situations.

  4. Hannah

    Keep your ears open. Let us know if you hear of any church who is advocating these measures. I think CPS will find anyone who advocates whopping babies worthy of both a court trial and psychiatric evaluation. These sorts of people are nuts as well as dangerous.

  5. Dee:

    I know this maybe a bit OT. They have also wrote an article about the abusive husband. Its the normal blah blah blah stuff at the beginning, but their views on child molestation maybe of interest to you.

    Since I doubt you would wish to link to them – I linked to the document in my first line of an opinion piece.

    http://eaandfaith.blogspot.com/2006/12/i-feel-sorry-for-debi-and-michael.html

    Its towards the end of the article. They have no grasp on the facts when it comes to the legal system, and how they handle these child molesters. They want the wife to wait 20 yrs until he gets out of jail, because at that point the children are grown to take him back safely. First offenses don’t generally get that long for one. The line about how you shouldn’t report him at all if he is repentant? That blew my doors off personally.

    Between beating children, and not reporting child molesters? These people are just plain sick.

  6. Important to note that most male child molesters never see ONE day of jail. Not one. That is not to say that all do not get time, just the majority do not. Those that do (the male ones*) see the world relatively few years from behind the bars.

    *Just as an FYI, females get upteentimes** more years than males for the same crime in most situations.

    ** that would be the technical number. 😉 I don’t remember the exact numbers now but it would blow you away knowing the difference in years that a woman gets for the same or lesser crime than her male counterpart gets. Huge descrepancy. We’re not talking about a couple more years. We are talking exponentially.

  7. Stunned, do you think you could locate that info and link it or state where it can be found.

    There are a lot of men who feel the courts are out to get men personally and that women have a total unfair advantage that need to know this.

    Thanks if you can.

  8. Mara, for me to find it again would mean for me to google it. Don’t have the time for it but have fun going for it. You will be AMAZED at the numbers. Look for not only the sexual predator numbers, but at the numbers for murder. The overwhelming majority of women who kill often end up doing it as self defense- mainly if they leave their husbands/partners will kill them. While the men who kill their wife/partner do it because they don’t want the woman to leave them. (Ironic part of bad logic, eh?) Yet the men who do so actually end up serving something like 2-5 years while the women who have often been abused and threanted then end up killing their abuser end up serving something like 10-25 if not more. Like I said, go find the numbers and come back and correct any if I haven’t gotten them right.

    The sex numbers I knew were from when I was involved in putting a child molester in prison. All the “experts” (and I can not tell you the YEARS we spent with experts related to every range of experts on this subject- police, DA, psycholigist, psychiatrists, etc ) were amazed that he even saw a year of jail time as most male child molesters never see ONE day of jail time. I even had the fun of leading the bullet proof clad police into the home of the child molester and to the man himself. I, being a civilian, never got the luxury of the bullet proof vests. Yeah, you probably don’t want to mess with me when it comes to hurting a child or another person. 😉

  9. PS. Men who believe what you stated are not only ignorant but seriously troubled. There is not one person who can look at ANY of the statistics in regard to women/men prisoners and time served or any other issue and believe that there is not something deeply flawed in our system that is tragically weighted toward the men’s side and against the women. I wonder how many of these men you know have ever done any research before creating this wonderland in their imaginations.

  10. That and they were bullied either by their father or their mothers. Yeah, I said it. And it’s true. They need help.

  11. These men are looking at divorce court, in particular. I don’t know if their info is correct. I know there are MRA groups the screw with the numbers and that even mostly reasonable men fall prey to believing those numbers due to their own insecurities.

    If the opportunity arose and I had time, I wanted to produce credible numbers on the other side.

  12. Divorce courts screw with men?! Oh please, that is seldom the case. (I am not disagreeing with you as I know you are not stating that, but the men that are stating that again are NOT looking at the numbers and probably have HUGE personal investments in it.)

    If you are interested in those numbers, I can point you in one direction. Look up the statistics of the socioeconomic impact on women and children and on men all related to divorce. You will find in the OVERWHELMING number of cases (the stats are truly shocking) that the socioeconomic status of women fall. (you ever hear a bomb being dropped through clouds in a movie- that is kinda the sound that is being made.) And that the overwhelming numbers of men actually have their numbers go (are you ready for this?) UP. Yes, after divorce, more women and children DROP down to the status of “poverty” will the economic well being of men after a divorce actually go UP. It is sickening once you start looking at the actual numbers. And this is the case regardless of whom initially seeks the divorce.

  13. As far as women being punished more severely than men…
    There is nothing new under the sun.

    The woman thrown at the feet of Jesus was committing adultery with someone and the law stated that both the man and woman were to be stoned. If one was not stone, according to the law of Moses, the woman was let go in the case of a possible rape.

    Yet the men weren’t concerned with who the woman committed adultery with. They were only concerned that she committed adultery.

    And strangely, many hard core, Bible thumping, plain reading preachers don’t like this portion of scripture and say things like, ‘this story isn’t found in the earliest manuscripts,’ they hate it so much. Why? Because a woman is being let off the hook. They miss the fact that the man was already let off the hook and that Jesus was dealing directly with their injustice towards women.

    (stepping down off soap box now blushing only slightly)

  14. Anyone familiar with Cordell and Cordell divorce lawyers for men only? Ever heard their ads on the radio?

  15. Anyone else notice that male bashing seems to be one of the favourite sidebar conversations on this website? The topic of conversation can be darn near anything and someone will turn it into a discussion on the disparities between how men and women are treated in the church or in this case the differences between the sentencing of male vs. female CHILD MOLESTERS!!!!! Really?

    I get that some of you ladies out there may have been hurt (both phisically, emotionally and spiritually) by men in the past but we are NOT ALL LIKE THAT. I’ve been both emotionally and spiritually hurt by women in my past but I don’t hold that against all women. (I’ll grant that I was not abused and I recognize the difference.) I’ll also grant that sometimes women are treated differently and recognize that it is not fair, but guess what, niether is life. Stop being victims!

    I await the inevitable bombardment of comments for my insensitivity BUT this post was about the horrid treatment of children and they’re protection, nuturing and care is not the sole providence of women!

    You’ll notice that one of the children that DIED in this article did so at the hands of his MOTHER.

  16. Jerry, I’m really sorry if you felt like I was making sweeping statements about all men being bad. I don’t feel that way at all, nor do I believe it.

    I’m really sorry to hear that you have been harmed by women (or even harmed at all). I wish that there was some way we could prevent the harm of people entirely.

    Stunned

  17. PS. Jerry, I was pretty sure I was the one who veered the conversation in the way you were objecting to. (No surprise here at all for me to do.) But I also know myself well enough to know that I just don’t go on tangents for no reason at all.

    So I went up and followed the thread and this is what i found.

    We were discussing child abuse.

    We were discussing how so many churches not only turn a blind eye to abuse but support it by many of their ridiculous teachings.

    Then someone pointed out another sad situation by saying, “They have no grasp on the facts when it comes to the legal system, and how they handle these child molesters. They want the wife to wait 20 yrs until he gets out of jail, because at that point the children are grown to take him back safely. First offenses don’t generally get that long for one. The line about how you shouldn’t report him at all if he is repentant? That blew my doors off personally.”

    This was and does directly address the discussion that was taking place.

    I tried to respond to that comment by stating that when a man molests a child, telling their wife to take them back after his jail sentence is ridiculous and damaging for a number of reasons, one of them being that most child molesters dont’ ever see one day in jail, unless they are women (tangential point but I still found it very fascinating when I studied this subject and thought others would find it interesting, too.)

    Then Mara asked me more about the statistics and we discussed it some more.

    To my knowledge, going off on a side note on a blog is neither new nor wrong.

    I just went back and was re reading my statements and I what I read is me decrying injustice- not men.

    Would you mind if I asked you where it is you saw me bashing men? Maybe I am missing something.

  18. I totally get that women abuse.

    And I’m also sorry for every son and husband hurt by mother or wife.

    I have two sons whom I love dearly, and if anyone laid a hand on either one of them, I’d come unglued. And they are ages 20 and 21 right now. They have the same attitude towards me, now. It is a fierce love and loyalty.

    My younger son was in a play in high school by Neil Simon called Rumors. In it, off set, he’s ‘hit’ by his wife and given a bloody nose. It’s all fun and games, but still, on the side, I was teasing him, yet serious, “No one ought to be hitting you, son.” Because it really is sad to make jokes about abuse, either way it goes.

    I’m also sorry, Jerry, for going off on this tangent without stating first that there are many good men in the world who are not a part of this general injustice towards women.

    But the injustice is still there, among many men. Often women are judged quite a bit harder than men for doing the very same things.

    Here’s an example right here.
    I don’t agree with this woman’s choices, however, her story really brings to the forefront how harsh men can be are toward women who do things, that when men do them, they hardly bat an eye. Check out paragraph three to get an idea. Then read the whole story to put it into perspective.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rahna-reiko-rizzuto/the-gender-gap-in-motherh_b_837403.html?utm_source=aolhp&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=aolhp&icid=main%7Ccompaq-desktop%7Cdl12%7Csec1_lnk3%7C206538

  19. I think women can judge other women just as harshly as men can. There is no where where I am saying that it is men who are responsible for injustice.

    Again, Jerry, I would appreciate it if you would show me where I was man bashing. I could be way off and am really open to it but right now I am feeling really injustely (sp?) accused. (You can accuse me of poor spelling anytime and you’d be right.

  20. Stunned. First I believe it would be “unjustly accused” but that’s OK. The only way I can spell is with spell-check. Now as to your question: It’s not any specific statement but more about the general tone of your comments. Perhaps you didn’t hear it that way when you wrote it or even when you re-read it but that’s how I percieved it. Voice and tone are one of our primary means of non-verbal communication and they are real hard to convey in the written word.

    I’ll give you an example. A few months ago I wrote and article for this blog on spiritual abuse. I expected the discussion to be mostly people sharing their own experieces with the topic at hand and how to avoid these pitfalls in a church. While those types of comments were present it seemed to me an inordinate amount of the comments were about male dominance and mistreatment of women. I was rather taken aback by it and have seen it come out in many of the threads throughout this blog. Now I realize that much of this is due to fundamentalist Christians having patriochal views and teachings and there has been a recent uptick throughout protestant Christianity of those teachings. Perhaps that is where it comes from but it’s not always germane to the conversation at hand. It seems to me that some people (people who have been wounded in that way, maybe?) are quick to blame men for many of the ills that befall the church or many of the other topics that are debated on this site. If you’re not one of those people then I apologize for making you feel accused. My point is simply that the Church does not have a “men” problem. It has a “people” problem because we’re ALL screwed up.

  21. Mara ok took the time to read your article. First off it’s on the Huffington post. That’s kind of like the National Inquirer with cooler graphics. Hardly un-biased journalism. Either way you’re right in that particular case there would be a societal “double standard” if you will. In this instance we’re talking about a broken home and those situations are never easy or clear cut. That’s why divorce lawyers make so much money.

    I would suspect that in your example the harshest critisim of this woman would come from other women. Especially mothers who would never concieve of an arrangement like this one. Given that the courts generally give mothers preferential treatment in custody issues this is doubly true.

    Let me present the counter arguement to yours with regards to the legal double standard in the courts today.

    Consider the following and let me know what you think.

    http://www.lawfirms.com/female-teacher-sex-crime-offenders-and-scandals.html

  22. It is so difficult for me to read about soomeone who has the audacity to adcocate something like this and call it “Christian”. We all have heard of solomon”s saying of “spare the rod and spoil the child” It seems odd to me that someone living under grace wants to revert to attitudes of those under the O.T. law. I much prefer what Jesus said about children. In His statement He reminded those who would mis-treat either physically or emotionally a child that they would be in danger. It is truly unbelievable to me that any parent would listen to anyone who would suggest such horrid punishment. Evil has many faces but I most dislike when it infringes on the young and defenseless.

  23. I read a couple of faith boards myself, and you should see the fireworks that happen when threads are about the Pearls.

    I have to admit the women are the worse when it comes to that. They get pretty upset when you speak negatively about them.

    When parents take their methods to far? The Pearls write articles on their site about them. They poke fun at the parents – call them names – and show no sympathy at all towards the children. That to me is not a good Christian Character trait. I honestly don’t know how they live with themselves.

    Pressure is placed on parents to have the ‘perfect’ family, and the Pearls promise them this if they follow their methods. Its just like her book that promises the moon if you do her formula for the perfect wife. They have some really awful circumstances written in her book to the wife, and as they do with murdered children the name calling and stereotyping comes out.

    Its strange how they will encourage you to whip your child for the slightest little thing, but don’t report your husband is he is ‘sorry’ for molestation. They don’t give the child a chance to ‘repent’ or to offer repentance before beating them.

    This couple produces brokenness for everyone involved. I don’t see any good coming from it at all. I have heard many families regret following their methods, but if you look closer? It was their faith group – and the cliches within that encouraging them to do so. You will notice they encourage this ‘us against them’ attitude as as well. You don’t follow us you get nazi children type of thing. Your child can’t be perfect if you don’t. You will not have the family God wishes you to be, or you will not be the wife that is proper.

    There is alot of pressure to follow their methods, and you notice that if you call them on it? The followers have no problem getting vicious in return.

    Its plan scary.

  24. Hannah

    You’ve got it. i think parents are looking for a magic formula to guarantee kids who will not sin or make the same errors that we did growing up. Scripture tells us they will and we do.

    Love your hat. I spent a long time in Texas and brought my own hat back. It is sitting in my front hallway for that emergency when I feel I need to pull on my boots and hat and pretend I am going to the Ft Worth Stockyard. Fun memories.

  25. “I was rather taken aback by it and have seen it come out in many of the threads throughout this blog. Now I realize that much of this is due to fundamentalist Christians having patriochal views and teachings and there has been a recent uptick throughout protestant Christianity of those teachings. Perhaps that is where it comes from but it’s not always germane to the conversation at hand. It seems to me that some people (people who have been wounded in that way, maybe?) are quick to blame men for many of the ills that befall the church or many of the other topics that are debated on this site. If you’re not one of those people then I apologize for making you feel accused. My point is simply that the Church does not have a “men” problem.”

    The problem is that it is germane to most issues we discuss because the root problem is the twisted teaching on “authoritariaism” that is becoming an “A” issue in most of Christendom. And women can be worse than men on this score.

    And you are doing what many have done: Assuming people who have a problem with this focus on following humans have been “victims”. For some reason, certain people think being a victim of something means they cannot be objective. As if their horrible experience means they are too emotional or silly to be listened to. That would negate any brokeness in Christ that is part of sanctification to make us MORE dependent on Christ.

    Some of us just woke up and realized we needed to be following Christ. And following humans…even humans with lofty Christian titles…. is not the same thing.

    Several times in the NC, The Inspired Word tells us about the BEST TEACHER, the Holy Spirit. Not humans.

    Be Bereans because there can be NO spiritual abuse when there is no authoritarianism of humans in the Body.

  26. >JACK THERRELL said, :
    >We all have heard of solomon”s saying of “spare the rod and spoil the child”

    Not to be argumentative, but I do want to point out that Solomon did not say that, nor is it in the
    Bible at all. That quote is from Hudibras by Samuel Butler. Just saying.

  27. Lydia, kinda noticed you cut off a bit of my quote. That’s rather telling. I’m not sure what it is that you are saying that’s much different from me. We have a screwed up PEOPLE problem in the church and we should be followers of God and not followers of people. Or is it that you are saying the problem lies primarily with us “authoritarian” MEN?

    I don’t know you but I suspect from some of your comments here and elsewhere that you are one of those people who’ve been wounded in the past, probably by a man in a position of authority, and now you strike me as being bitter and jaded. Close? If that’s the case then I’m very sorry that happened. You WERE a victim (past tense). Only you can choose whether you CONTINUE to be victimized by that experience. You will always have the scars and they may pain you at times but we all get to choose to heal. That’s what I meant by “stop being victims”. At some point you have to choose to break the cycle. If you don’t then whomever did whatever to you; wins. Cheap advice I know but there it is. If I’m off base then I apologize.

  28. Jerry, think whatever you want. I am quite familiar with the tactic you used because I used it myself in the past. Of course I could point out the irony of your first comment but won’t. :o)

  29. There is a difference between being victimized and exposing the darkness of wrong doctrine and wrong thought processes.

    I home schooled but never got involved in the patriarchy, thankfully. So I have never been victimized by it.

    Now my kids are in public school, but I still love homeschool and hate what the Pearls and others like them are doing to it.

    By declaring what is going on, I’m not playing victim. I’m opening the eyes of those still being victimized so they can see and get out and no longer be the victim. And one thing that victims need to do in the process is find their voice and talk about what has happened to them and how it has hurt them. It is a step towards healing. Yet there is always someone coming along and trying to shut them up and shame them by claiming they have a victim mentality.

  30. Lydia please feel free to point out the irony or whatever tactic I’ve used. It’s obvious I’ve touched a nerve and that you have a problem with men in general for some reason. I notice you ducked the questions and failed to respond. That’s pretty typical too. Droll but typical.

    Mara I did not mean to imply that you are playing the victim. I believe you miss my point. Playing the victim means you try to illicite sympathy from other’s for the wrongs that have been done to you. I don’t think you or anyone here is doing that at all. That’s not what I’m talking about at all. What I talking about is someone being the victim even after they are no longer in the situation that caused them the pain in the first place. I’m talking about never forgiving and getting closure and what that does to a person. It causes people to become jaded and bitter, which in turn causes them to lash out and blame anyone associated with or similar to the person that caused them the pain. When they do that they are still being victimized.

    I totally agree with you that all of us need to talk about the experiences we’ve had so that other’s can learn. I don’t want to shut up or shame anyone.

  31. Jerry, I appreciate your apology! (Here’s a quick guide- nothing unkind or negative was in this post. 😉 )

    Stunned

  32. Jerry said, “I don’t know you but I suspect from some of your comments here and elsewhere that you are one of those people who’ve been wounded in the past, probably by a man in a position of authority, and now you strike me as being bitter and jaded. Close? If that’s the case then I’m very sorry that happened.”

    Jerry, it feels to me like you are reaching a bit in your judgement of other’s tones. It is starting to come across as a mind reader. Now, maybe I am not seeing something but you seem to be reading tone that I am missing. Lydia, is he accurate in what he is saying about you? You have not been of me, Jerry. Maybe I could ask you to rethink why you are reading this in some of us who are decrying injustice. Again, I am often one of the guys. Love my son, my father, my boyfriend, my guy friends. Why the heck do you hear me educate people on gender injustices and your mind thinks I am man bashing?

    I was letting it go when you apologized to me, then I read down and you are accusing Lydia of the same thing. What about it makes you tie “bad men” to injustice? I am not. Why do you think someone else is?

  33. Pingback: More Pearl Exposure | Why Not Train A Child? UNITED STATES

  34. Jack/Hermana

    I know that the exact wording is not in Scripture. However, the statement is correct if one takes an exacting, literalist, OT approach to Proverbs. The point that I have been attempting to drive home with one of our commenters is that the admonition to use a rod for punishment is merely a simplistic way to view the passage. In a true interpretation is that parents must discipline their children. There is not one person in his right mind that would disagree with that. It is merely the method and I fear that some people will focus on the secondary issue of rods and end up like the Pearls.

    BTW, I mean what I said. I WILL report any parent who hits their baby to the authorities. We also have another idea on how to get the world more “interested” in parents who are hitting their babies. A little embarrassment is in order. We’ll let you know once we have gotten the idea fleshed out.

  35. Stunned I was merely responding to Lydia. If you’ll go and read some of her comments in other threads on this blog she seems to have a huge problem with anyone in a leadership or authority position in the church as well as (to my mind) men in general. She’s even gone so far as to argue that there should never be any leaders in the church because that is “man following” instead of following Christ. She alludes to that above if you re-read her comment. It’s kind of ridiculous because there is no such thing as a leaderless group. We’ve had huge discussions about this subject in other threads. This is not the first time she’s made comments like these. Guess I just got a little tired of it so I called her out to explain herself. Still waiting for the response.

  36. Thank you for writing this. I am a contributor on Linda’s site, http://www.whynottrainachild.com. I’m also an early childhood professional. I am wondering why no legal action has taken place against the Pearls? To me, ALL physical punishment should be considered child abuse. However, legally speaking, I would think that there be enough legal evidence to prosecute this couple for child abuse and/or promoting child abuse! How many children must die or be seriously injured before the Pearls are stopped?

  37. Steph

    I was a public health nurse and did f/u on families suspected of abuse. There has to be a current report on a child who is harmed. Apparently, these people are writing about their punishment of their kids who are now grownup. Now, if one of them would come forward, there is still the possibility of legal action since crimes against children have no statute of limitations.

    That is why we here at TWW are willing to receive current reports of child abuse as encouraged by churches (although any report will be treated seriously.) If we receive some evidence of this, we will call the church to investigate and remind them of the law. If we believe that there is a possibility of children being hurt, we will report or help the individual report the issue to CPS. We are very serious about this.

    BTW, we will also assist with spouses being told to return to abusive homes.

    We believe a phone call to a church might bring enough embarrassment to have them rethink through their “teaching.”

    A CPS visit will totally freak them out. They think government agencies are the antichrist.

    And, a call from national media who are interested in this story will be ultimately effective. We will try any and all interventions to protect children. We are dead serious.

    We will also highlight, in a few weeks, a California trial in which parents, who allegedly used the Pearl material, killed their child.

    May God forgive the church for turning a blind eye on child abuse, domestic abuse and pedophilia in the church.