The level of intentional deception and/or self-deception on the part of so many leaders is deeply disturbing to me. I struggle to see how anybody with the indwelling Holy Spirit could respond in these ways.

Ava Aaronson,

Well said.

Nancy2(aka Kevlar),

“It’s a good time for them to get even and do what they’ve dreamed of doing for a long time.”
++++++++++++++++

it’s weird. in my career i encounter many parents. I end up knowing the background of the families, and know when a family is ‘christian’.

the evangelical men are predictable:

they are simply rude and arrogant.

they ignore me, refuse to make eye contact, never say thank you, let alone any words at all. it’s like i’m invisible and don’t exist.

— unless i corner one of them and make conversation.

then he says a little as possible (especially refraining from any expression of appreciation or a compliment of any kind), again never making eye contact.

it’s like it’s beneath them. they walk around like an alpha male mesomorph (regardless of their body shape).

every other man is kind, gracious, appreciative, making the effort at conversation, encouraging, warm, unselfconscious, sincere…

Bridget,

I agree. Numbers have been in a slow decline for several year. The abuse scandal took a big bite out of the funds.
Ha. I’ll betcha those male leaders think the SBC would be much better off numerically and financially if abuse victims had kept quiet and women still had to live under Victorian era restrictions at church, in the home, and in society.

Ava Aaronson,

You know, I have seen various manifestations of what you write throughout my life…. There has been many times when I looked at situation, run by “leading Christians”, and thought this does not “smell right”…. But heaven forbid I raise a question….

This is why I find TWW refreshing.. most of the poster do not appear to be “self-righteous”, just trying to figure out what the h$ll is going on…. And asking, This does not seem good for the “little guy (or gal)”

Bridget,

“…a rude awakening…”
+++++++++++++++++

something is very wrong with evangelical culture, in what it produces.

values are unmoored from common sense right and wrong — indeed, i think the party line is that there is no such thing to begin with, and that ‘biblical’ is the locus of right and wrong.

ah, the shifting sands of all the conflicting versions of ‘biblical’. the irony just kills me.

the idol they call biblical is what is worshipped. by people easily led & beholden to entities that suck out critical thinking and fill the void with telling people what to think instead.

the product is character mutated away from things like kindness, humility, compassion, sheer graciousness — things which those outside the bubble (whom evangelicals deem the inferior goblins of worldly world) readily embrace as normal.

i’ll add a postscript to my earlier comment – none of the fine men who comment here would behave the way I’ve observed in others.

Ariel: After being yelled at, insulted and outright ignored by churchy people …

That’s a huge problem in the American church … too many “churchy” people on church rolls rather than real deal Christians who express what the Body of Christ is supposed to look like.

Ariel,

i wish it were different.

the point relevant to the topic of this post is that evangelicalism’s theology can be summed up as

-‘the end justifies the means’
-‘principle over people’

a theology that gives lip service to caring about people, but with real-life consequences that fall like heavy bricks on those at the low end of its hierarchy.

a theology which favors men and caters to their insecurity

(which means it caters to the immature dreams of power of significance of their inner 12-year old child)
.
.
…because the powerbrokers want their money

(and because they are threatened by women, & are consciously and subconsciously seeking to edge them out more and more)
.
.
and a theology that discourages the average adherent from actually thinking deeply enough to perceive this.
.
.
evangelicalism’s functional theology does not value women and children.

and really, the functional side of theology is what matters.

elastigirl,

Love it!

elastigirl: something is very wrong with evangelical culture, in what it produces.

Which is in large part why evangelical culture dying out.

“How many of you remember JD Greear’s crocodile tears over the issue?”

Actually, if you look closely at that video, there are no tears. Performer-preachers like Greear can cry without tears … they must train you how to do that in seminary to effect a sermon emotional link with the pew.

Max: I suspect this behavior is widespread at leadership levels within most or all SBC entities. Apparently, protecting SBC’s reputation is more important than Christian character.

It’s called Staying RESPECTABLE(TM).

“Not out of any Heavenly Virtue, but out of Hellish Respectability.”
— one of hte Father Brown Mysteries

Gus: hat’s the result of having a theology of pure authoritarianism, where one group (evangelical men) are everything, and everbody else, but especially women, doesn’t count.

That’s the result of being God’s Special Pets and knowing it.
The Rulers of Tomorrow, God’s Master Race.

elastigirl:
elastigirl,

i’ll crystallize it down:

a theology that starts with “girls have cooties” (as well as all the other socially undesirables)

…and doesn’t mature any further.

and money.

Just like the Alpha Male Red Pill Manosphere, Except CHRISTIAN(TM)!

(YouTube’s Sacred Algorithm was sending me a lot of Alpha Manosphere videos for a while. When they begin with this bearded Alpha Male Steroid Mesopmorph striking a WOODEN match to light an Andrew Tate-sized cigar, you just KNOW it can only go downhill from there…)

Gus: That’s the result of having a theology of pure authoritarianism, where one group (evangelical men) are everything, and everbody else, but especially women, doesn’t count.

And if they (evangelical men) ever achieved the kind of power they crave, it would be as brutal a dictatorship as any the world has seen.

From an interview Julie Roys recently posted with Christa Brown:

JR: …do you have hope for reform within the SBC? or do you feel like it’s a lost cause?

48:56 CB: I certainly don’t think that we will see meaningful reform in my lifetime. I really don’t. I just don’t think this institution is going that direction. They’ve given us no evidence on which to believe that they’re serious about this at all.

CMT,

“JR: …do you have hope for reform within the SBC? or do you feel like it’s a lost cause?”
+++++++++++++++

well, really, can any organized religion be counted on to do right?

as soon as you have holy book from a supreme being that is inerrant & infallible, all it means is ‘my interpretation is inerrant and infallible’.

history shows anything can be justified.

the present shows that we could make a whole blog post article long-listing all the corrupt, unethical, destructive, & criminal things that christian leaders and their entourage are justifying this very day.

Headless Unicorn Guy,

“…those outside the bubble (whom evangelicals deem the inferior goblins of worldly world)”

“Orcs Dipped in Dogsh*t”, just like in all those Jack Chick tracts.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

good grief…. christian culture casts every christian man as Aragorn, and everyone not in a church as the orcs.

women don’t factor in. except as tokens

elastigirl: as soon as you have holy book from a supreme being that is inerrant & infallible, all it means is ‘my interpretation is inerrant and infallible’

Yep, with everybody proclaiming ‘my’ interpretation is the only expression of truth … the one true religion! That’s why we now have 30,000 different Christian denominations and organizations on planet earth … some mere man in the past in each of those groups launched out with his interpretation of the Holy Book and others followed. Most streams of Christian faith are littered with aberrant theology trash … only the Good Lord can clean it up.

Max: Yep, with everybody proclaiming ‘my’ interpretation is the only expression of truth … the one true religion! That’s why we now have 30,000 different Christian denominations and organizations on planet earth …

THIRTY THOUSAND One True Ways — “GAWD SAITH!”
And the Universe cannot have two Centers — “DIE, HERETICS!”

Muff Potter,

i double checked just now and read through it.

(i’m ultra careful with belief in theory & practice. only because i’ve come out of a christian culture that was careless, sloppy, and non-thinking… at the expense of others. which ultimately is at our own expense.)

Yeah, me, too.

CMT:
From an interview Julie Roys recently posted with Christa Brown:

JR: …do you have hope for reform within the SBC? or do you feel like it’s a lost cause?

48:56 CB: I certainly don’t think that we will see meaningful reform in my lifetime. I really don’t. I just don’t think this institution is going that direction. They’ve given us no evidence on which to believe that they’re serious about this at all.

And any attempt to show them gets the John 9:34 treatment:
“YOU WERE BORN IN UTTER SIN, AND YOU DARE TO TEACH US?”

Muff Potter: And if they (evangelical men) ever achieved the kind of power they crave, it would be as brutal a dictatorship as any the world has seen.

“Just like the Khmer Rouge, Except CHRISTIAN(TM)!”

“For you don’t count the dead
When GOD’s on Your Side…”
— Bob Dylan

Parents need to step up to the plate and TEACH their children that NOBODY in the church or outside the church has a right to put their hands on their bodies.
They need to be taught the difference between a legitimate power differential, and one that’s not legitimate.

Debby: https://wordandway.org/2024/03/12/the-root-rot-of-the-sbc/

Debby,

Thank you for the link to the Word&Way post by Brian Kaylor, March 12, 2024, titled The Root Rot of the SBC. 🙂

From that post:

A problem this big and systemic is going to take more than a few statements of disappointment and ignorant innocence. Politicians may claim some banks are “too big to fail,” but in this case perhaps we have something too big to repent. It would take a pretty large millstone to put around a $10-billion-a-year organization that consistently sides with predators over children. Nor does it seem like such a group would fit through the eye of that sewing needle. The SBC has been growing in this direction since Pressler and Patterson shaped it. Those two men cannot be excised without taking the whole thing apart.

So, church and ministry leaders, lock your doors. Close the garage. Make sure the oven is turned off, and your house is in order. Make policies and establish procedures that ensure a safe and Christ-honoring environment. Take the time to ask yourself the hard questions, make necessary changes, vet and train your leaders, and allow yourself to be held accountable. Let it never be said of us, or our ministries, that someone was wounded physically, mentally, spiritually, sexually, or neglectfully under our watch. Instead, let’s join with the Sovereign Protector and do everything under His power to safeguard and protect those whom we are blessed to serve and lead.

Headless Unicorn Guy: (YouTube’s Sacred Algorithm was sending me a lot of Alpha Manosphere videos for a while. When they begin with this bearded Alpha Male Steroid Mesopmorph striking a WOODEN match to light an Andrew Tate-sized cigar, you just KNOW it can only go downhill from there…)

Almost as bad is when the video begins with the Alpha Male Steroid Mesomorph drinking coffee from a big inscribed mug with a long loud “SLUUUUUUUUUURP!” followed by an “Ahhhhhh…” The Algorithm was sending me a lot of those recently.