The Bombastic SBC: They Claimed They Would ‘Do Something About Sex Abuse’ and Then They Didn’t. Time For Outside Law Enforcement?

Posted on by June 8, 2024avatar

“From the time of Constantine church discipline declines; the whole Roman world having become nominally Christian, and the host of hypocritical professors multiplying beyond all control.”  AW Tozer (History of the Christian Church, vol. III, p. 8)

Next Friday, we plan to expose a well-known pastor who we believe molested, over the years, a minor. The victim, now older, has long wanted to tell her story.

The SBC has a poor history when it comes to sexual abuse. Many people were not aware of just how widespread it was until the Abuse of Faith was published in the Houston Chronicle. Then JD Greear cried, lamenting the fact that there were more than 700 victims reported. Many celebrity pastors du jour spoke out, claiming that things would change. The powers that be selected a sex abuse task force that came up with some ideas for a database. Realizing they were holding a hot potato, they morphed into the Abuse Reform Implementation Task Force, which routinely sent messages to let the faithful know the database was coming. Except it wasn’t coming. It never was. Did the SBC leaders play games with the variously named abuse task forces?  Did they work hard only to discover that it didn’t matter what great idea they came up with?

There was the sex abuse hotline. Rumor had it that hundreds of calls were received. That means people were calling and discussing SBC church pastors, leaders, etc, who were abusers. But what was done about this? Well, we don’t know. A few weeks ago, I called and got a computer telling me to leave a message, and I would receive a call “within 24 hours.” Where did they bury those reports? Whatever happened to Guidepost and Faith-Based Solutions? How much is the SBC paying for this hotline?

SBC leaders are great at putting on a show. They can fake the tears, discuss the “dark days ahead,” and pivot so fast that onlookers get dizzy. If only they had leveled with abuse victims. They should have told them there wasn’t much they could do. But, in typical bombastic fashion, they claimed they would “do something.” And then they didn’t and reverted to the same old lines.

Every church is autonomous and is not part of a denomination. The SBC cannot tell a local church what they can and cannot do so long as they wink and nod at the Baptist Faith and messgae.

I wondered if it was all a performance, attempting to prevent the SBC from being compared to the Catholic church. If so, it didn’t work. In the last year, I have spoken with so many people who mention the RCC in the same breath as the SBC.

A database was proposed. A not-for-profit was considered to run it, and the ARITF bid the SBC a fond farewell. Why? There wasn’t a chance that the SBC would fund such a proposal. The powers that be didn’t want to do it. The database? Not one name was on it. Not even Doug Goodrich, who went to prison for molesting 13 young teen boys. That means Tommy Gilmore, who molested Christa Brown, isn’t in the database either.

We went from JD Greear’s crocodile tears to “see ya” in just a few short years. Greear even hired Brian Loritts. So much for that.

So much for autonomy. The Law Amendment will prohibit women pastors. Is this a smokescreen for other problems?

It’s amazing what the SBC can do when the boys get together. The denomination with only autonomous churches will need to dump women pastors or leave. Writing for BNG, Mark Wingfield posted that The Law Amendment may not be the most important action taken at next week’s SBC annual meeting. He posits a different reason for the hoopla surrounding the amendment. Could this be a smokescreen so the SBC can cover up its problems?

According to some critics, the current effort to put women in their place is a smokescreen to distract attention from the denomination’s unwillingness to address charges of mishandled sexual abuse cases, declining membership, plummeting baptism rates and insufficient church planting.

Although there is a faceoff between the Calvinists and non-Calvinists, I am apt to buy the above explanation. The SBC is all about smoke and mirrors.

Critics have panned both task forces for making promises they can’t keep. Two years after the damning report from Guidepost Solutions, the SBC still hasn’t published a single name of a known or credibly accused abuser despite repeated promises to do so.

Next week, the Abuse Reform and Implementation Task Force will release a new curriculum to help local churches “establish or evaluate their abuse prevention and response plan” and will ask messengers to approve two recommendations.

The first recommendation is to affirm the objectives outlined in the task force report. The second is to urge the SBC Executive Committee to “complete the implementation of these objectives” by recommending a sufficient structure and allocating funds to do so.

I have asked and have not been able to get statistics from the NAMB on the number of church starts, successes, and failures. There is some suspicion that the NAMB is spending huge amounts of money on church plants, but it is not paying off.

  • Request the SBC North American Mission Board “conduct an annual survey of the status of churches planted, revitalized or otherwise assisted using Cooperative Program funds 10 years out from their launch, specifically to include data regarding: 1) the percentage of churches which are still in existence, and 2) the percentage of churches still connected to the SBC in Cooperative Program giving and ACP reporting. NAMB leaders have been hesitant to publish longitudinal data on church plants, which has fueled criticisms that NAMB is spending millions more dollars on church planting with worse results than ever before.

Then, the SBC’s membership numbers are declining, and the SBC certainly doesn’t want to discuss this during the Convention, which often serves as a PR extravaganza for the many media groups in attendance. I wonder if they see through the smokescreen?

Christa Brown and David Pittman speak some hard truths about abuse reform in the SBC.

On Together We Heal, they wrote Abuse Reform? Not So Fast.

In the latest communique from the latest version of the sexual abuse task force, they began with self-praise, claiming they “worked aggressively” and “vigorously pursued” priorities and “made substantial progress.”

…In reality, abuse reform progress is nearly non-existent and at best wholly stalled. Worse, the purported “effort” appears to have been designed to fail from the get-go because the volunteer task force never had the resources, support from leadership, or the expertise to accomplish the task.

… from the very start, the SBC was never really serious about reform.

They disagree with the task force’s assertion that the SBC has been experiencing a culture change. It’s just the same old, same old.

They’ve put together a packet of information on abuse and have instructed each church to have the following five people review them: pastor, deacon, children’s worker, youth worker, a parent. Having five people watch a PowerPoint or read some materials about abuse does not constitute or create a “culture change” – which is what the ARITF claims the SBC has been going through.

The SBC sets aside money for trivial things but not for dealing with sex abuse.

They will spend and give hundreds, even thousands per church on things like coffee and flowers. But set aside a little time and money to better protect kids? Evidently that is just not within their budget.

They say the church is not safe.

This is something I just wrote about.

It’s the SBC who has been blocking reform at almost every turn. With every closed-door session, with every lobbying effort to keep status quo the statute of limitations, and most recently with the #AmicusBrief that protects predators and eviscerated survivors legitimate and truthful cases

…The consistent adversarial actions by the SBC make SBC churches the last place anyonewould turn to for help! A

The SBC has no means to coerce churches to do the right thing. Tell that to women pastors.

Another line in the task force recommendations that caught our attention said this: “It is important to underscore that the SBC deliberately has no mechanism for coercing local churches.”

…Tell that to the churches with women pastors. Tell that to the pitifully few churches disfellowshipped for harboring sexual predators. When something REALLY matters to the SBC, they most certainly have mechanisms for applying pressure.

Only a few SBC churches have sought out training about sexual abuse.

A handful of the SBC’s 47,000 churches have sought out legitimate trauma-informed care, education and training about sexual abuse, and we acknowledge those. They are the rare exceptions because they understand what the rest don’t or won’t – that caring for the vulnerable is a mission and ministry of The Church.

Christa and David were both abused in the church and had some stern words about “self-serving notions.”

As children, we were both part of the SBC, but after we were repeatedly raped by ministers, we were cast aside. As adults, when we sought help from dozens of church and denominational officials, we were told again and again: “Go away, there’s nothing we can do. But we’ll pray for you.”

The uncaring callousness of that has left us with a lot of skepticism about the performative nature of many Southern Baptist prayers and proclamations of caring. Whatever SBC officials may consider to be “caring” – and however they may be defining that word – it seems like just some abstract self-serving notion in their heads.

Maybe it’s time to get State AGs involved in looking at sex abuse in the SBC. Uh oh!

Christa Brown, David Clohessy, and David Pittman writing for BNG, posted A call for state AG investigations of sexual abuse in the SBC.

For example, there is still no permanent funding for abuse reforms, and the SBC still has not implemented a denominational database of clergy sex abusers. Instead, it lauded itself for launching a database and hyped it as a “historic” moment, even though, in actuality, the purported database is an empty shell with no data.

In other words, the SBC put on a self-serving PR show — a theater-piece without substance. Meanwhile, behind the curtain, SBC officials were actively working against accountability by filing an anti-survivor amicus brief.

Why get state AGs involved?

This is why secular authorities must intervene. The SBC has repeatedly demonstrated it will not take meaningful action to expose the clergy predators in its ranks or to rectify the grievous harms to survivors.

The U.S. Department of Justice is investigating the SBC on matters related to sexual abuse and recently we learned that a pastor and former seminary administrator, Matt Queen, had been indicted for falsifying records to cover up a sexual abuse report.

Crimes often fall under state laws.

Crimes involving sexual abuse and assault are frequently crimes that fall under state law. Therefore, whatever the final results of the DOJ investigation may be, no one should imagine that federal prosecutions reflect all the crimes that may have been committed.

…According to Child USA, a national think tank for child protection, at least 23 state attorneys general have conducted or opened investigations into sexual abuse in the Catholic Church. Those investigations have brought forth important information about credibly accused priests

Such an investigation might provide more opportunities for victims of abuse.

State attorney general investigations could provide a process for many more Southern Baptist survivors to put their allegations into the public record — something that often has been foreclosed to them by short statutes of limitation, which church officials readily exploit.

The DOJ has already made an arrest. There could be more to come. Throw in the state AGs, and things could get lively.

Final words from the article.

Southern Baptist officials continue to ignore the pleas of survivors because, in their craven calculus, they prioritize protection of the institution over protection of people. They assess the costs to the SBC and choose to safeguard denominational dollars rather than to safeguard kids.

State attorney general investigations could help to alter this unholy calculus.

I believe the SBC never told the truth. The machine never intended to deal with the sex abuse problem but strung on the victims and their friends with promises of better days ahead. I spoke with some Baptist insiders who knew a database would never exist. I only wish the leaders had told the truth. But they had to posture for the media, just like Jesus, right?

Comments

The Bombastic SBC: They Claimed They Would ‘Do Something About Sex Abuse’ and Then They Didn’t. Time For Outside Law Enforcement? — 108 Comments

  2. I suppose a series of class action lawsuits to take away the $1 Billion the SBC has on-hand will make them change their mind. Bankruptcy of the umbrella organizations and individual churches is the only way they will get the message. To quote Teddy Roosevelt, “Once you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow.

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  4. I think the attack on women “pastors” is a smokescreen, a distraction, and a goal.

    Some have pushed for tighter reins on women for years, and more and more people have jumped on the bandwagon. I believe it is very likely that the Law Amendment will be approved. Now is the perfect time to bring that to the forefront because it will be the number one issue in this years convention, and all of the discussions and the news will be about women pastors. They think everyone will conveniently for get the abuse scandal, and things will go on as always.
    (reins ….yes I chose that word intentionally, double meaning)

    Someone has proposed adopting the Nicene Creed and making it and article in the BF&M, but nobody’s talking about that.

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  5. There’s a bombshell coming (charges filed).
    And they (SBC) won’t be able to wheedle-talk their way out of it, cuz’ the big-whigs knew about it and did nothing.
    It’ll probably play out like the Catholic sex-abuse scandals in Boston, pretty much as shown in the 2015 film Spotlight

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  9. Muff Potter:
    There’s a bombshell coming (charges filed).
    And they (SBC) won’t be able to wheedle-talk their way out of it, cuz’ the big-whigs knew about it and did nothing.
    It’ll probably play out like the Catholic sex-abuse scandals in Boston, pretty much as shown in the 2015 film Spotlight

    Civil and criminal penalties that bankrupt the SBC (kiss that $1 Billion goodbye) is the only solution and the only way they will get the message.

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  10. Ted: Don’t look for the SBC to talk about abuse, let alone do anything, at their annual convention next week. They’ll be too busy arguing and voting about female pastors, like they did last year. It’s on the agenda.

    They will scoot around the majors to focus on the minors; they’ve become very good at it. IMO, God would be more concerned about them dealing with sexual predators in their midst rather than silencing any soul who is called to preach the Gospel (regardless of race, class or gender).

    So they will fuss and fight over this and that in Indianapolis … but end the conference with hugs all around, cry crocodile tears, sling a weak prayer toward heaven, hold hands, sing Kumbaya, and return to their churches unchanged. The beat goes on, while the cries of victims are ignored. The SBC is done; it just hasn’t quit yet.

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  13. SBC leaders are great at putting on a show. They can fake the tears, discuss the “dark days ahead,” and pivot so fast that onlookers get dizzy.

    They’re also no slouches at pointing fingers and Virtue-Signalling their Godliness:
    “I THANK THEE, LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORD, THAT I AM NOTHING LIKE THOSE FILTHY ROMISH PAPIST PEDO ‘PRIESTS’ OVER THERE…”

    It’s amazing what the SBC can do when the boys get together. The denomination with only autonomous churches will need to dump women pastors or leave.

    “IT IS THE LAW (Amendment)!”

    Autonomous when it is to their advantage to be autonomous and independent, a single steamroller marching in lockstep under their Fuehrer du Jour when that is to their advantage. Dispersed for Defense, Concentrated for Attack.

    I believe the SBC never told the truth. The machine never intended to deal with the sex abuse problem but strung on the victims and their friends with promises of better days ahead.

    A Potemkin Database, all for show.
    What local evening drive-time calls “Kabuki”.
    And “promises of better days”… If those Better Days are Perfection (such as a CHRITSIAN nation just like the Millenium in Left Behind: Volume 13), they can justify any atrocity whatsoever to bring that CHRISTIAN Perfection to Reality.

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  14. Max: They will scoot around the majors to focus on the minors; they’ve become very good at it. IMO, God would be more concerned about them dealing with sexual predators in their midst rather than silencing any soul who is called to preach the Gospel (regardless of race, class or gender).

    “A Fanatic is someone doing what God would/should do if God only KNEW What Was REALLY Going On.”

    And “Gurlz Have Cooties!” is far more important than infringing on the Anointed’s sexual appetites regarding their Inferiors.

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  15. “SBC leaders are great at putting on a show…

    abuse reform progress is nearly non-existent and at best wholly stalled…

    But set aside a little time and money to better protect kids? Evidently that is just not within their budget…

    Whatever SBC officials may consider to be “caring” – and however they may be defining that word – it seems like just some abstract self-serving notion in their heads.”
    +++++++++++++++++++++

    seems local SBC pastors are apathetic impotent nincompoops, too (except when their ego, $, and power are threatened)

    “In 2019, I was women’s ministry leader at an SBC church. I asked the elders to work through the Caring Well curriculum on sexual abuse with the women’s care team. They chose not to.”–Joy LaPrade

    https://x.com/joyklaprade/status/1799193294691570148
    .
    .
    She has a story to tell. From her time at a North Carolina SBC / Acts 29 church.

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  18. I have pleasant memories of times in SBC churches in the 70’s and 80’s, but the death of today’s SBC and probably 80% of its congregations would be one of the best things to happen to the Body of Christ. SBC was better when it was filled with working class folks and pastors living modest lifestyles.

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  20. Troy: I have pleasant memories of times in SBC churches in the 70’s and 80’s … SBC was better when it was filled with working class folks and pastors living modest lifestyles.

    My SBC tenure goes back to the 1950s … after 70 years as a Southern Baptist, I’m a “Done” now (done with SBC, but not done with Jesus … some would say I’m just being nostalgic, but it really was a better bunch of Christians for most of my SBC journey … the denomination had its problems (demon-deacons, etc.), but the NeoCal movement, with its aberrant belief and practice and arrogant leaders, has pretty much finished it off.

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  21. I believe outside law enforcement is involved (see the recent federal indictment of Matt Queen in covering up sexual misconduct at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary). However, I can tell you that the Feds (a) really like to have their ducks lined up when they indict someone (which is why their conviction rate is well over 90%) and (b) aren’t going to bring a case if the evidence isn’t there.

    That being the case, I would say, “turn to the states,” but given how in so many states the SBC hierarchy is entangled with state politics plus the generally decentralized nature of the SBC (even though it’s acting like a denomination) is going to make that hard. It is unlikely we’re ever going to get a state grand jury report like the one that was issued last year by the Pennsylvania Attorney General regarding the Catholic dioceses in Pennsylvania. (This is the report https://www.attorneygeneral.gov/report/ . It’s 1,356 pages. I’ve skimmed through it in the past, it’s a terrible read.

    At this point, I’m thinking that the only steps to bring tangible results are:

    (a) report child sexual abuse to local authorities so the pervs can be brought into a court of law to be judged.

    (b) sue the churches in civil court (causes of action will depend on state)

    (c) continue to work with legislatures to extend the statute of limitations in states that have limited ones. (I live in Arizona and it was *Catholic* legislators who were against extending the statute of limitations here and it just makes me *burn* inside.)

    (d) encourage people to vote with their feet and their wallets and find better churches where they can be sure that their donations are not going to fund SBC outfits that have been up to their eyeballs in abuse coverups.

    (e) continue to remind EVERYONE that the Southern Baptist Convention has continued for decades to cover up child sexual abuse, while wasting their time going after their doctrinal enemies. The most recent purge is those churches who have women pastors. Right now, the SBC should be rooting out their predators and predator enablers.

    These are my suggestions. I don’t know if they’re entirely workable, but I think they’re among the best we’ve got at the moment.

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  23. nmgirl: the Feds referred to the SBC as a denomination

    If you asked the average Southern Baptist what denomination they belonged to, they would say “SBC” … if you asked the average SBC pastor if his church was affiliated with a denomination, he would respond “SBC.” The folks in the ivory towers of SBC refer to the organization as a network or convention of cooperating Baptist churches. They push autonomy of the local church.

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  24. Nancy2(aka Kevlar): I think the attack on women “pastors” is a smokescreen, a distraction, and a goal.

    Some have pushed for tighter reins on women for years, and more and more people have jumped on the bandwagon.

    It really does beggar belief that they’re more concerned about women in the pulpit than they are with the prevalence of chester-the-molester having access to kids.

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  25. Max: Done” now (done with SBC, but not done with Jesus …

    Recommending “The Bodies Under the Bus” podcast.

    “The Bodies Behind the Bus is a podcast centering on the voices of spiritual abuse survivors. We began with stories out of the Acts 29 network and have branched into many organizations since our launch. We are the discarded few. We have been abused, gaslit, ignored, slandered, deceived, intentionally hurt, and betrayed. Our stories were manipulated and our voices were stolen. We were left alone with all the confusion, grief, hurt, and pain but today we begin to reclaim our stories and find our voices once again because we matter, and being a body behind the bus is not the gospel.”

    https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bodies-behind-the-bus/id1601586078

    On TBUTB podcast, we’re listening to “Kat’s Story,” parts 1 & 2, about YWAM. Kat, a former YWAMMER, shares everything that the YWAM website doesn’t tell us about this sketchy org.

    Another eye opener is the doc series: “Dancing for the Devil: The 7M TikTok Cult” about Pastor Robert Shinn and his LA church, Shekinah Church. On Netflix.

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  28. Muff Potter: It really does beggar belief that they’re more concerned about women in the pulpit than they are with the prevalence of chester-the-molester having access to kids.

    IMO, more women in the pulpit would scare the h#!l out of chester-the-molester … they move quicker than most men to deal with child abuse … there’s just something about getting your eyeballs clawed out by Pastor Mary, while Pastor Joe gives you the benefit of the doubt.

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  31. Ava Aaronson: Another eye opener is the doc series: “Dancing for the Devil: The 7M TikTok Cult” about Pastor Robert Shinn and his LA church, Shekinah Church. On Netflix.

    SHEKINAH Church?
    Shekinah as in the reading lamp for your Bible Study?

    Entered “Shekinah Church” as a search string and… Woo.

    The People article mentioned a talent agency for “dancers” and “dance industry”, setting up Social Media Presences for “dancers” with an extremely strict dress code, especially for the female dancers.
    1) Does “dancer” mean “stripper” in this context? Or OF Cam Girl like Andrew Tate used to pimp?
    2) Like Got Hard and “loooong waaaavy haaaaaair”, was the female dress code another look into the ManaGAWD’s sexual fantasy and appetites?
    3) Said Social Media Presence included rented mansions for photo shoot/TikTok b/gs. No mention of fake private jet studio sets that was de rigeur for Influencers a couple years ago.
    4) “Baby, I’m gonna make you a Star”?

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  34. Reminder, it’s a flunky of 9Mark Dever that’s leading the campaign against women preaching the Gospel.

    https://thebaptistpaper.org/qa-mike-law-addresses-proposed-amendment-to-sbc-constitution/

    “Mike Law, senior pastor of Arlington Baptist Church in Virginia, introduced an amendment to the SBC Constitution that was approved on first vote at the SBC annual meeting last year in New Orleans. It must pass by a two-thirds majority at the SBC annual meeting this year in Indianapolis in order to go into effect.”

    Mike Law of course can be found on the roster of 9Marksist interns trained by Dever at CHBC.

    And after the internship, Dever selected Law to be his ‘Pastoral Assistant’ for a number of years.

    When 9Mark Dever ran for Vice President of the SBC in 2006, and lost, it was Mike Law who was his spokesman:

    https://baptistnews.com/article/updated-calvinist-pastor-georgia-evangelist-likely-to-square-off-as-1st-vp-nomination/

    “…according to Dever’s assistant, Mike Law.”

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  37. Muff Potter,

    Most of the victims that exposed the abuse and protested at the conventions are women. (Christa Brown was called an “evil-doer”, “satanic”, “demonic”…)

    If women had just stayed silent, most, if not all, of those chesters-the-molesters would never have been exposed, and the SBC’s pompous pride would not be painfully bruised. So, women are the problem. Shut up the women; solve the problem.

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  38. elastigirl,

    Ahhhhh, this ‘Caring Well’ stuff…….
    A thought popped into my head when I read this Friday night…… the choice to use the word ‘well’…… a play on words, perhaps?
    Is the ‘well’ just a metaphorical hole in the ground……. as in throwing abuse victims down the metaphorical well ?

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  40. Max,

    And, just think, “Breaker her down” Patterson was “proud of it” and was considered a pious leader in the SBC!!!
    Another example of Chutzpah….
    But of course, it was all very “Christ -like”….. and to think, in my younger days I use to listen to these types of leaders….. sigh…

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  42. Jeffrey Chalmers: And, just think, “Breaker her down” Patterson was “proud of it” and was considered a pious leader in the SBC!!!

    Southern Baptist pewsitters need to get over their blind trust of church leaders … far too often they turn out to be not what they seem. It takes a great deal of discernment to navigate the American church these days and the typical believer just ain’t cut out for it.

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  43. Jeffrey Chalmers: But of course, it was all very “Christ -like”….. and to think, in my younger days I use to listen to these types of leaders….. sigh…

    A lot of us have been there, Jeffrey … that’s why we suffer from PTCD (Post Traumatic Church Disorder). But having PTCD has sharpened our ability to detect the counterfeit, so we comment here and elsewhere to inform and warn the Body of Christ of what is lurking in their midst (wolves in shepherd’s clothing).

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  48. Nancy2(aka Kevlar): Most of the victims that exposed the abuse and protested at the conventions are women. (Christa Brown was called an “evil-doer”, “satanic”, “demonic”…)

    … by evil-doers who are satanic and demonic. SBC demon-deacons and wolves in shepherd’s clothing are real! I knew a bunch of them during my 70 year journey of doing church in SBC (when I finally came to my spiritual senses, I joined the Done ranks).

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  49. Muff Potter: Like I keep harpin’, the SBC had better pull their heads outta’ the sand and move aggressively against Chester, or there won’t be an SBC, they’ll wind up bankrupt after the pay-outs.

    Their attitude is “That Can NEVER Happen”, “GOD is protecting Us His Faithful”, “Blessed are Ywe Who Are PERSECUTED For Righteousness’ Sake”, etc.
    All applying to themselves and Only themselves, of course.

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  53. Ran across an interesting history tidbit today. BH Carroll, founder of SWBS, married a woman who refused to move to Texas with him. She broke their vows, divorced him, and he was devastated. Threw himself into the Civil War, I assume on the side of CSA, as if trying to be killed. After he was wounded and went home to heal he was saved and began to rise in the Baptist ranks.

    I wonder how much of the hatred of women in the SBC has risen from that one source?

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  54. Muslin, fka Dee Holmes: SBC hierarchy is entangled with state politics

    Moreover, the upcoming SBC national get together features a prominent national political leader running for office as a convicted felon with a record of violating women and minor girls a la Epstein.

    But then how many similarly convicted felon offenders of the CSA type are there in SBC pulpits and on SBC payrolls, both local and national?

    Ah yes, is it not true that beyond the Houston Chronicle’s researched list, the SBC itself guardedly maintains a secret list of offenders, not to protect the vulnerable (prevention of crime) but to protect the org and thus the offenders?

    “Long Haul” by former FBI admin Frank Figliuzzi is a book of research about the victimology of those who fall prey to highway serialists. He also profiles the typology of the long haul trucker offender.

    On the other hand, Andrew S. Denney, at University of Tennessee at Chattanooga, has researched and published a typology of the CSA offender. There is a type for this kind of behavior. What is the profile of a pedo in the pulpit? Of a pulpit predator who preys on adults? Of a youth pastor pedo? Denney documents that, first of all, they are male.

    What is the culture of the congregation and orgs that $upport and cover for these predators?

    Lawfully, a teacher or counselor is stripped of their license forever when caught violating minors, and sometimes when caught violating adults.

    Churches, apparently set the bar quite low in tolerating, $upporting, covering for, and applauding pedo felons. Criminality seems to be comfortably in bed with spirituality, with church. If that isn’t corruption, do tell, what is?

    What does it take to weed out criminality from our clergy?

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  55. linda: BH Carroll, founder of SWBS … Threw himself into the Civil War, I assume on the side of CSA

    Yes, Mr. Carroll served with the Confederate States of America during the Civil War. SBC founders were Calvinists. Prior to the Civil War, many were slave-holders (including pastors and deacons). They firmly believed that sovereign God was on their side in the War, until early Confederate victories turned to defeat. After the War, Southern Baptists distanced themselves from the Founders’ theology and remained distinctly non-Calvinist in belief and practice for 150 years … until Al Mohler and his army of rebel New Calvinists waged another War – to Calvinize the SBC by dragging the denomination back to its theological roots, without asking millions of non-Calvinist Southern Baptists if they wanted to go there!

    Through stealth and deception, the NeoCals have largely achieved their mission … they now control all SBC entities (seminaries, mission agencies, publishing house, church planting program, thousands of traditional churches captured by deception, etc.). And mainline traditional Southern Baptists barely fired a shot; heck, they even blindly funded the takeover by giving to the Cooperative Program and mission funds which have been used to advance the NeoCal kingdom within SBC. The new reformers plant 1,000 new churches each year at a cost of $60-80 million annually using Annie Armstrong Easter Offerings – well, I should say they have been planting reformed theology. It’s the darnedest thing I’ve ever seen!

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  56. Headless Unicorn Guy: The People article mentioned a talent agency for “dancers” and “dance industry”, setting up Social Media Presences for “dancers” with an extremely strict dress code, especially for the female dancers.

    The videos are all completely family friendly wholesome and highly professionally done. A super good look. Very successful. 7M seems to be really good at professionally producing topnotch dance videos on tiktok. That’s part of the problem. The facade is excellent.

    The underbelly of then taking the young dancers’ $$$ from their work, forcibly separating the young dancers from their families, indoctrinating the dancers as working slaves to the church and 7M, insisting on the young dancers’ loyalty to the Dear Leader, and finally, Robert Shinn’s use of the young women as s*x slaves, is pure cult evil.

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  57. Max: heck, they even blindly funded the takeover by giving to the Cooperative Program and mission funds which have been used to advance the NeoCal kingdom within SBC. The new reformers plant 1,000 new churches each year at a cost of $60-80 million annually using Annie Armstrong Easter Offerings – well, I should say they have been planting reformed theology. It’s the darnedest thing I’ve ever seen!

    So they were baited and switched?

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  58. Max: Yes, Mr. Carroll served with the Confederate States of America during the Civil War.SBC founders were Calvinists.Prior to the Civil War, many were slave-holders (including pastors and deacons).They firmly believed that sovereign God was on their side in the War, until early Confederate victories turned to defeat.After the War, Southern Baptists distanced themselves from the Founders’ theology and remained distinctly non-Calvinist in belief and practice for 150 years … until Al Mohler and his army of rebel New Calvinists waged another War – to Calvinize the SBC by dragging the denomination back to its theological roots, without asking millions of non-Calvinist Southern Baptists if they wanted to go there!

    Through stealth and deception, the NeoCals have largely achieved their mission … they now control all SBC entities (seminaries, mission agencies, publishing house, church planting program, thousands of traditional churches captured by deception, etc.).And mainline traditional Southern Baptists barely fired a shot; heck, they even blindly funded the takeover by giving to the Cooperative Program and mission funds which have been used to advance the NeoCal kingdom within SBC.The new reformers plant 1,000 new churches each year at a cost of $60-80 million annually using Annie Armstrong Easter Offerings – well, I should say they have been planting reformed theology. It’s the darnedest thing I’ve ever seen!

    In fairness, Calvinism = support for slavery in not a valid assertion (not that you are making that). The Calvinists who were abolitionists believed that God was on their side too.

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  59. Ava Aaronson: Moreover, the upcoming SBC national get together features a prominent national political leader running for office as a convicted felon with a record of violating women and minor girls a la Epstein.

    But then how many similarly convicted felon offenders of the CSA type are there in SBC pulpits and on SBC payrolls, both local and national?

    Ah yes, is it not true that beyond the Houston Chronicle’s researched list, the SBC itself guardedly maintains a secret list of offenders, not to protect the vulnerable (prevention of crime) but to protect the org and thus the offenders?

    “Long Haul” by former FBI admin Frank Figliuzzi is a book of research about the victimology of those who fall prey to highway serialists. He also profiles the typology of the long haul trucker offender.

    On the other hand, Andrew S. Denney, at University of Tennessee at Chattanooga, has researched and published a typology of the CSA offender. There is a type for this kind of behavior. What is the profile of a pedo in the pulpit? Of a pulpit predator who preys on adults? Of a youth pastor pedo? Denney documents that, first of all, they are male.

    What is the culture of the congregation and orgs that $upport and cover for these predators?

    Lawfully, a teacher or counselor is stripped of their license forever when caught violating minors, and sometimes when caught violating adults.

    Churches, apparently set the bar quite low in tolerating, $upporting, covering for, and applauding pedo felons. Criminality seems to be comfortably in bed with spirituality, with church. If that isn’t corruption, do tell, what is?

    What does it take to weed out criminality from our clergy?

    Of course, when the SBC clergy (like Wade B) are all-in on Trump (a convicted felon, abuser, etc.) any claims and efforts to deal with abuse within their denomination ring hollow and are nothing more than virtue signaling. I can understand why Pence is speaking, but why on earth would they have Trump? I guess the memo the SBC sent out (and all the SBC pastors supported) back in 1998 about “character counts” was purely political theater. The entire SBC, their leaders, their pastors etc. once again confirm their hypocrisy. Whatever “good” was done by the SBC pastors in their efforts to combat abuse is tainted. A little leaven leavens the whole lump.

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  60. Ava Aaronson: baited and switched?

    Essentially … and then there’s the element that the average Southern Baptist doesn’t really care about boring things like theological doctrine. But, in this case, the doctrinal shift impacts the Gospel message to ALL people they have been taking around the world for 150 years (whosoever-will-may-come). IMO, SBC can no longer be considered “evangelistic”, as evident by the declining numbers of baptisms and overall membership within their ranks.

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  61. Max: heck, they even blindly funded the takeover

    A lot of religion can be put in the category of Bait and Switch: Love bomb those coming in the door, then empty their pockets and embed hooks in their very souls before they leave.

    Jesus described this among religious leaders of His day, and then those same religious leaders executed Jesus. The religious leaders did not like to be called out, so they leveraged their political power to execute the Son of God.

    We see a religious org thick as thieves with a national political candidate, who is a felon to boot, with a record of violating women. Should the religious establishment put him back in power, what will be the fallout for the vulnerable, and finally, for the rest of us?

    Here’s what Jesus said about Bait and Switch, Matthew 23:

    “The religious leaders sit on Moses’ seat. What they read from the Word of God, observe and do, but don’t do their works; for they say, and don’t do.

    “They bind heavy burdens that are grievous, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not lift a finger to help them. They do all their works to be seen by men. They … love the place of honor at feasts, the best seats in meetings, the salutations in public, and to be entitled by men.

    “But you are not to be entitled, for one is your teacher, the Christ, and all of you are brothers. Call no man on the earth your father, for one is your Father, he who is in heaven. Neither be called masters, for one is your master, the Christ. But he who is greatest among you will be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

    1. “Woe to you, religious leaders, hypocrites! For you devour widows’ houses, and as a pretense you make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.

    2. “Woe to you, religious leaders, hypocrites! Because you shut up the Kingdom of Heaven against men; for you don’t enter in yourselves, neither do you allow those who are entering in to enter.

    3. “Woe to you, religious leaders, hypocrites! For you travel around by sea and land to make one conversion; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of evil as yourselves.

    4. “Woe to you, you blind guides, who say, ‘Whoever swears by the temple, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple, he is obligated.’ You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that sanctifies the gold? And, ‘Whoever swears by the altar, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gift that is on it, he is obligated?’ You blind fools! For which is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifies the gift? He therefore who swears by the altar, swears by it and by everything on it. He who swears by the temple, swears by it and by him who has been living in it. He who swears by heaven, swears by the throne of God and by him who sits on it.

    5. “Woe to you, religious leaders, hypocrites! For you tithe but have left undone the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith. But you ought to have done these, and not to have left the other undone. You blind guides, who strain out a gnat, and swallow a camel!

    6. “Woe to you, religious leaders, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and unrighteousness. You blind religious leaders, first clean the inside of the cup and of the platter, that its outside may become clean also.

    7. “Woe to you, religious leaders, hypocrites! For you are like whitened tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but inwardly are full of dead men’s bones and of all filth. Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

    8. “Woe to you, religious leaders, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the tombs of the righteous, and say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we wouldn’t have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.’ Therefore you testify to yourselves that you are children of those who killed the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. You serpents, you offspring of vipers, how will you escape the judgment of Hell? Therefore, behold, I send to you prophets, wise men, and scholars. Some of them you will kill and crucify; and some of them you will scourge in your meering places and persecute from city to city, that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom you killed between the sanctuary and the altar. Most certainly I tell you, all these things will come upon this generation.

    “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I would have gathered your children together, even as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you would not! Behold, your house is left to you desolate. For I tell you, you will not see me from now on, until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!’” – Psalm 118:26

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  62. Max: But, in this case, the doctrinal shift impacts the Gospel message to ALL people they have been taking around the world for 150 years (whosoever-will-may-come). IMO, SBC can no longer be considered “evangelistic”,

    Thus establishing a religious (and coming down the pike also political and economically) elite?

    The religious, political, economically elite executed our Lord Jesus.

    In contrast to the religious, economically, political elite of His time, Jesus, born to Joseph and Mary, was of the anawim. The anawim are the least of the least who are faithful to God, who depend on and know God best.

    Moreover, whatever we do to the anawim least of the least while faithful to God, we do to Jesus, the Son of God. Matthew 25.40.

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  65. Nancy2(aka Kevlar): https://baptistnews.com/article/southern-baptist-calvinists-crave-authority-not-baptist-theology/

    Thanks for the link, Nancy!

    The following clip from the article pretty much frames the concern I have had all along about the New Calvinist takeover of SBC:

    “The neo-Calvinists among the Southern Baptists are an alien branch somehow attached to the Baptist tree. They are authoritarians and deconstructionists of the worst kind, distorting truth, denominational unity, religious purity, their own denomination and the Baptist spirit of congregationalism.”

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  66. In the news:

    https://thebaptistpaper.org/tony-evans-steps-away-from-pastoral-duties-after-falling-short-of-the-high-standards-of-scripture/

    “Dr. Evans’s Statement to the Church on June 9, 2024”

    “…While I have committed no crime, I did not use righteous judgment in my actions. In light of this, I am stepping away from my pastoral duties and am submitting to a healing and restoration process established by the elders. This will afford me a needed time of spiritual recovery and healing…”

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  74. Nancy2(aka Kevlar):
    Max,

    https://baptistnews.com/article/southern-baptist-calvinists-crave-authority-not-baptist-theology/

    “The only goal of Power is POWER.
    And POWER consists of inflicting maximum suffering upon the powerless.”
    — George Orwell, 1984

    “There is no Right, there is no Wrong, there is only POWER. And those who are too weak to have it.”
    — Lord Voldemort

    “POWER is Power.”
    — Queen Cersei Lannister

    (Note that all these quotes are from The Bad Guys.)

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  79. Headless Unicorn Guy: Austrian Cult Leader

    At least most Austrians take a certain pride in the fact that said cult leader was a failed “artist”, unemployed and living in a shelter for homeless men while in Vienna. He only became famous in Germany, after WW1.

    That doesn’t absolve us from the fact that he received a relatively enthusiastic welcome at th “Anschluss” in 1938, from a large part of the population.

    For various historic reasons (the German-speaking part of Austria-Hungary had always been considered part of Germany, most of the Habsburgs had been very enthusisatic participants in the counter-reformation and had for centuries persecuted protestants, our own homegrown dictatorship in the 30s [Dollfuß, then Schuschnigg] were *very* much in leage with the then powerful RCC), Austrian Lutherans (“Evangelische”) had always been oriented towards the protestant German states and later Reich, and hired many pastors from Germany.

    “Fun” detail: the Austrian flag is red, white and red, the colours have been like that since the crusades. So in 1938, at the Anschluss, people only had to add the swastika in order to get the flag of Nazi Germany. The women in the women’s group of the main Lutheran church did exactly that at church.

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  82. R’as al Ghul: Place your bets now to see how many weeks or months this “restoration” process will take before Evans is back in the saddle. I will start the bidding at 3 Months.

    Depending on the particular moral failure (in this case, unspoken sin) and stature of the fallen celebrity, bad-boy-preacher restoration typically takes 3-12 months before they are back in the pulpit to a cheering crowd. Only in America.

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  84. Gus: “The capitalists are going to supply the rope we’re going to hang them with themselves”

    “And where will we gt the money to buy the rope?”
    “The Capitaists will lend it to us!”
    (And for a backup, they had a Comrade called Stalin robbing banks to replenish their treasury.)

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  86. “From the time of Constantine church discipline declines; the whole Roman world having become nominally Christian, and the host of hypocritical professors multiplying beyond all control.”
    AW Tozer

    This is one reason why the xtion nationalists are getting it wrong: in their “xtian nation” they may not have to tolerate seeing out-of-the-closet gays anymore, or declared atheists or agnostics (and christians of different theological convictions¹), but there will be an exponential rise in hypocrisy in those outwardly professing their christian faith.

    And, among those who are forced into hypocrisy, the official faith will be *hated*. But maybe the xtian nationalists don’t care because they think that anybody who disagrees with them is reprobate, not among the elect, damned from before the beginning of time, and therefore doesn’t count.
    —

    ¹That’s the problem with theological (or ideological) purity: the parameters of what’s allowed will be defined ever more narrowly.

    In Umberto Eco’s novel, “The Name of the Rose”, set in a 14th century Benedictine monastery, the narrator character, Adso of Melk, a novice, asks his mentor, and former inquisitor, William of Baskerville, what his problem was with purity. William’s answer (I quote from memory): “The hurry”, meaning that once you start enforcing this purity of thought in others, there’s no stopping.

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  87. Meanwhile, back in Indianapolis:

    “Even as they prepare to vote on a formal ban on churches with women pastors, delegates to the Southern Baptist Convention annual meeting voted overwhelmingly Tuesday to boot one such church from its ranks. Messengers, as voting representatives are known, voted 6,759 to 563 to oust First Baptist Church of Alexandria, a historic Virginia congregation that affirms women can serve in any pastoral role … The vote came after the denomination’s credentials committee recommended earlier Tuesday that the denomination deem the church to be not in “friendly cooperation …”

    https://apnews.com/article/southern-baptist-annual-meeting-indianapolis-women-pastors-politics-f1f43f93947fda83119c761c06ea18f0

    Do you reckon God is currently in “friendly cooperation” with the SBC?

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  90. Muff Potter:
    Debby,

    Believe me, when the indictments are handed down, it will be huge news, just like the Catholic scandals were.

    Criswell Predicts… The PERSECUTION!!!!!!! Card played off the bottom of the deck.

    With the Usual Suspects: The Librul Propaganda Machine, the HOMOSEXUALS, the Abortionists, the HOMOSEXUALS, the Evolutionists, the HOMOSEXUALS, and the Deep State Cabal baking Your Children’s blood into Adrenochrome or Passover Matzoi (no difference).

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  91. Headless Unicorn Guy: Criswell Predicts…

    The Amazing Criswell was a Celebrity Psychic of the 1950s, forgotten nowawdays except for his association with Ed Wood’s Plan Nine from Outer Space. Ran newspaper columns, a syndicated TV show where he Predicted The Future (“Where we will be spending… the rest… of our lives”), and a few books of collected predictions/prophecies.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Amazing_Criswell

    I first heard of the guy because my grandmother had one of his books, a collection of various short prophecies including casual nudity and cannibalism becoming universal by the 1980s, Mae West becoming President, a nuclear war in either 1983 or 1987 which will destroy DC and move the capital to Wichita, Kansas, and The End of the World on August 18, 1999 when a black rainbow like the rings of Saturn appears around the Earth and sucks all the oxygen out of the atmosphere. (I am not making that up.)

    Now imagine a ten-year-old kid with the Aspie trait of taking everything literally reading these Predictions…

    http://deeky.blogspot.com/2010/02/criswell-predicts-pt-5.html

    See what Weirdness you miss out on with your face stuck in a Bible like an iPad Kid and his screen?

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  92. new SPC President

    [rounded]
    *proponent of 9Marksist Mike Law’s ‘Law Amendment’ against women pastors

    First ballot: 9K cast
    26% Clint Pressley* (Manhood/Womanhood Councilmember)
    21% David Allen* (Conservative Baptist Network faction)
    18% Dan Spencer
    —–
    15% Bruce Frank
    10% Mike Keahbone
    10% Jared Moore*

    Runoff #1 8.5K cast
    39% Clint Pressley*
    30.5% Dan Spencer
    —–
    30% David Allen*

    Runoff #2 7.5K cast
    56% Clint Pressley*
    —–
    44% Dan Spencer

    Clint Pressley elected President of the SBC

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  94. Max: Also Chairman of the Board of Trustees at Southern Seminary … an Al Mohler man … and the beat goes on.

    On the other hand, Presley’s exact theological leaning is tough to figure out … he has buds among the “traditionalists” (= non-Calvinists) … could be a middle-of-the-road sort of guy? Personally, I like folks who just tell you what they are (Calvinist, non-Calvinist, or other ist?) rather than having to wonder about them.

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  98. Max: On the other hand, Presley’s exact theological leaning is tough to figure out … he has buds among the “traditionalists” (= non-Calvinists) … could be a middle-of-the-road sort of guy?

    Or a Chameleon who changes to fit in with whoever he’s with, flipping to always appear as those surrounding him.

    In Ray Bradbury’s Martian Chronicles, there’s a Martian who automatically chameleons his appearance to appear as whatever’s on a human’s mind or desire. He finally dies from the stress when he’s immersed amid human colonists and has to shapeshift so each colonist sees him in a different form.

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  99. Headless Unicorn Guy: a Chameleon who changes to fit in with whoever he’s with, flipping to always appear as those surrounding him

    Oh, that’s going on a lot in SBC! I know several church leaders who have compromised their theological positions to stay afloat as the NeoCals sweep through the denomination … once considered “traditionalists” but claiming now to have always held to reformed tenets. Many are the same bunch that had no problem with SBC moderate conservatives and “liberals” before the Conservative (aka Calvinist) Resurgence but joined with the hardliners to run them all off. Yeah, the more I think about it, the SBC is done; it just hasn’t quit yet … they have an urgent need in their spirits to “Biblically” oppress the wimmenfolk a bit more before they quit.

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  102. Jerome: Clint Pressley elected President of the SBC

    While that office is largely a figurehead position in which Mr. Pressley would present a face to media, promote SBC, preside over the annual meeting, etc., there is a good deal of power that comes with the job in that he would appoint members to various SBC committees. This is how the NeoCal movement has gained a stranglehold on the denomination and appears to be prepared to choke them even more with one of their own in power to place more “reformers” in key positions. And the pew ain’t got a clue.

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  103. R’as al Ghul: This was the first or one of the very few amendments that has failed on the 2nd vote. Which means they have to start over from scratch from the beginning.

    As I understand it, the amendment was primarily intended to enshrine anti-women-pastors in the SBC constitution. It was simply a way to enforce the ban on female pastors already embedded in the 2000 revision of the Baptist Faith and Message, which is the ruling statement of faith for Southern Baptists (Al Mohler was on the revision committee). Thus, women still can’t be titled “Pastor” (Mohler made sure of that) and the denomination has the power to kick out any church they deem not friendly with the SBC statement of faith – they have been in the process of doing that and will continue their hardline approach on the issue. Just a minor setback for SBC’s NeoCal kingdom … but the Kingdom of God moves on despite SBC; Praise God!

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  104. Max: While that office is largely a figurehead position

    My former pastor, Bobby Welch, was president of SBC 2004-2006 and tried to use his time as a bully pulpit to increase soulwinning and baptisms, spending weeks touring the country on a bus, but I think the end result was a decline in baptisms. He is now 81 and retired with Alzheimer’s, I am told. He also strongly opposed Calvinism.

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  105. Troy: Bobby Welch, was president of SBC 2004-2006 and tried to use his time as a bully pulpit to increase soul winning and baptisms … He also strongly opposed Calvinism

    Most soul winners do. Hyper-Calvinist errant soteriology is the primary reason that 95% of Christendom worldwide have rejected the tenets of reformed theology for the past 500 years.

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