Jupiter’s Moon: IO NASA
“Everybody makes honest mistakes, but there’s no such thing as an honest cover-up.”–Price Pritchett
I am leaving on Wednesday for my long-awaited train trip around Switzerland. I shall do a Julie Andrews “The Sound of Music” deal in an alpine meadow. I really need this time away. I will be carrying my computer which is named “Precious.” I shall check in from time to time. If you have any important questions for me, please put them into an email and understand that I may not respond for a while. My house and pugs are being cared for by my other daughter and a DCE from my church. Please pray that my mom will remain stable.
I have left a bunch of posts for Todd to post on our regular schedule. EChurch should post at the regular time. Todd has some things he might be posting as well. There is one post that you all might find quite interesting. You’ll know which one it is.
This was not unexpected. Brian Houston is the head of the Hillsong enterprise.
NPR posted The Founder Of Hillsong Church Is Charged With Concealing Child Sex Offenses
Detectives served Houston’s lawyers on Thursday with a notice for him to appear in a Sydney court on Oct. 5 for allegedly concealing a serious indictable offense, police said.
“Police will allege in court the man (Houston) knew information relating to the sexual abuse of a young male in the 1970s and failed to bring that information to the attention of police,” police said.’
The Washington Post reported Founder of Hillsong global megachurch was charged with concealing child sex abuse.
Houston, 67, said the charges came as a shock, and vowed to defend against them in a Sydney court in October.
“I vehemently profess my innocence … and I welcome the opportunity to set the record straight,” the pastor said in an emailed statement Friday.
Buzzfeed reported in The Founder Of The Megachurch Hillsong Has Been Charged With Covering Up Child Sexual Abuse
Frank Houston, who died in 2004, has been accused of abusing up to nine boys, the New Daily reported. One alleged victim said he was 7 years old when the abuse began.
“The abuse by Frank Houston occurred many years before Hillsong church existed,” a prior Hillsong statement said. “It is an indisputable fact that Pastor Brian is not a perpetrator of abuse, has never been accused of abuse, and took immediate action to expose and stop a child abuser.”
In 2014, Houston said in a statement that he found out about his father’s abuse 22 years ago, confronted him, and “ensured he never preached or served in any ministry capacity again.” Hillsong would go on to absorb Frank Houston’s Sydney Christian Life Centre.
The following title from Christianity Today made me laugh. Hillsong ‘disappointed’ after police press charges against senior pastor Brian Houston Disappointed? Over the charges? Are they at all disappointed that Houston allegedly hid his father’s abuse?
In a statement issued last month, he insisted that he did not find out about the abuse until 30 years after the event.
“Pastor Brian Houston found out about his father’s criminal actions toward the victim when Brian was 45 years old and the primary victim was 37 years old. Frank Houston’s criminal actions were committed when this victim was a child, nearly 30 years prior. Numerous other pastors and individuals had knowledge of this matter prior to Brian Houston learning about it,” the statement reads.
“Upon being told of his father’s actions, Brian Houston confronted his father, reported the matter to the National Executive Assemblies of God in Australia, relayed the matter to the governing board of Sydney Christian Life Centre, and subsequently made a public announcement to the church. Brian sought to honor the victim’s multiple requests not to inform the police.”
It continued, “The law at the time granted an exception to reporting a crime of this nature when a person had a reasonable excuse not to report. This state law has since further clarified that this type of situation–when an adult victim of child abuse explicitly does not want the matter reported–qualified as a reasonable excuse under the law.”
When the head of an empire conceals his father’s sex abuse, why would we not suspect he might hide other problems in the organization? Hillsong has been dealing with the antics of Carl Lentz amongst others.
“I shall do a Julie Andrews “The Sound of Music” deal in an alpine meadow.”
+++++++++++
can we see the video clip?
The are many dark corners in mega-mania.
I second that.
If the church’s statement is factually correct, this will be a challenging prosecution. The church’s summary of the elements and exceptions of the law (more specifically section 316A(1) of the Australia’s Crimes Act 1900, as amended) is accurate. Thus, if the now-adult victim desired to not report the matter to the police, that would in fact be a “reasonable excuse” in the language of the law for not reporting. In fact, in my jurisdiction, clergy are one of the officials empowered to receive a “restricted report” of sexual assault from a now-adult victim of child sexual abuse… the restricted reporting law is designed to give victims who do not desire law enforcement involvement the option to seek medical, clinical, and spiritual care without triggering a law enforcement investigation. The option is only available to now-adult victims, because the law presumes the now-adult victim’s competence (absent other impairment to their mental faculties) to either report the offense to law enforcement, or choose to not do so (a choice many victims make for valid personal and legal reasons).
We will probably have await the legal proceedings to see if the factual predicate of Mr. Houston’s position (i.e. that “The alleged victim was an adult at the time (Mr Houston) obtained the information, and (Mr. Houston) believed on reasonable grounds that (the victim) did not want it reported” holds up.
“Climb every mountain . . .”
Have a GREAT trip!
“Ford every stream
Fallow every rainbow
Until you find your dream.”
I mean… :Follow every rainbow” Sorry.
Spell check failed me this time.
I’ll bet if I committed a serious crime, the government wouldn’t give me until October 5 to show up in court.
So much to say here. I’m going to break it up.
1) Number of Victims
According to Kelso law firm in Australia, there were nine victims between 1965 and 1977. The Kelso firm is part of the national redress scheme as part of the Australian Royal Commission.
https://kelsolawyers.com/au/frank-houston/
2) What one victim has to say in 2019:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/28/sexual-abuse-victim-of-hillsong-founders-father-blasts-pm-for-supporting-brian-houston
3) People who are familiar with the work of TWW know that churches have an EXTREMELY bad habit of covering up child sexual abuse. May I strongly suggest this was the case here?
4) The Royal Commission reported on Frank Houston in Volume 16, Book 3 of their report (issued 2017)
https://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/sites/default/files/file-list/un-redacted_final_report_volume_16_book_2_-_religious_institutions.pdf
Page 143 has the following:
I’m sorry, but a 16 YO who reported to his parent, who declined to report the sexual abuse to anyone else cannot have been said to have waived his rights in any manner.
5) Brian Houston knew about this in 1999 and did nothing. When I posted about this on my Facebook, a friend of mine in Australia (who is now a DONE, long long story), reported to me that Frank Houston had been shuffled off to the church where he was on staff in 1999. The church was told that Frank was retired. They were NOT told about his child sexual abuse. They were told to treat Frank with all accord as a towering apostle of their movement, as well as father to Brian.
Per this friend, Brian Houston also perjured himself before the Royal Commission because he said that Frank never preached after 1999. That’s not true, he preached up until six months prior to his death in 2004, and there’s audio of same. And, per my friend, he was picking out the handsome young boys in the church for praise.
6) As for Brian Houston’s bleating about how he didn’t expect this, it’s a flat-out lie. He wasn’t allowed to join PM Scott Morrison’s state visit to the USA back in 2019 (even though Morrison wanted him invited), because this was hanging over his head and our Department of State was all AW NOPE. That said, Houston later got his picture taken with Trump in the Oval Office with a bunch of Trump’s favorite preachers in December 2019, even without the state visit.
The tl;dr is that a) there are a lot of victims b) only one is public and he’s ticked; 3) we who hang out at TWW know that suppressing child sexual abuse complaints is something churches do frequently 4) the one known victim said he reported to his mother at age 16 and she went nowhere with it 5) Brian Houston knew his dad was a predator in 1999, but still sent him off to another church and lied to the royal commission and 6) Given that the first Royal Commission report on Hillsong came out in 2015, and the big report in 2017, Brian Houston should not have been in the least surprised.
I don’t think Brian Houston is currently in Australia, and, with covid-19 and quarantine regulations, he has to be given enough time to get back and go through quarantine. If he doesn’t show (or give an acceptable reason why not), then an arrest warrant can be issued. Also he is apparently friends with the Prime Minister.
Gatsby,
Due process, yes.
However, too big to fail? Apparently not.
Good summation. We’ll see if that’s how it shakes out in court. If all that is based on good evidence it would change my initial take.
Best wishes for a perfect trip, Dee!
Brian Houston and Hillsong have been credibly accused of satanist ritual abuse, child sex trafficking and child murder.
First of 2 interviews in which Fiona Barnett interviewed a woman called Debra. Debra’s two young children were abused at Hillsong church in Sydney.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlUx4pJ7nAk
Dee, I notified you about this interview on Twitter ages ago, but you did not respond to my tweet.
https://twitter.com/NotUnderBondage/status/1327082614956593153
Brian Houston’s father, Frank Houston, publicly lusted over boys in his last Sermon.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200922003117/https://fionabarnett.org/2019/10/19/hillsong-pedo-frank-houston-publicly-lusted-over-boys-in-his-last-sermon/
Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,
Thank you for this additional background and legal perspective.
Brett Sengstock is one of the victims of Frank Houston. He was interviewed on Radio 3AW (an Aussie radio station). Brett was in treatment for cancer at the time. Brave guy!
https://www.3aw.com.au/podcast/brett-sengstock-victim-of-frank-houston/
“Houston has been based in the United States in recent months …” https://www.npr.org/2021/08/06/1025513360/the-founder-of-hillsong-church-is-charged-with-concealing-child-sex-offenses
Probably in Texas where most fallen pastors flee to be “restored” for some reason.
When he gets back to Australia, Hillsong members will most likely give him a standing ovation.
“Church” is getting weirder by the day.
Gatsby,
Interesting. Thank you.
Luckyforward,
I plan to sing it in an alpine field where no one can hear me. I like to pretend I can sing like Julie Andrews.
Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,
I believe that it was a coverup. Let’s see if I’m right.
If it weren’t for Hillsong music, there would be no Hillsong and their church would not have a worldwide mega following. Houston is not that good of a preacher. Their primary draw is the music not the message. Without Houston, there will still be Hillsong; it’s not like a regular run-of-the-mill personality cult which vanishes when the leader goes.
For years, when the word “Hillsong” was mentioned, most folks immediately thought “Darlene Zschech”, an excellent Christian worship leader and singer-songwriter. She left Hillsong in 2007.
If you’ve not heard her sing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk5yLJbQCbI
Wondering why it appears that the above is not being pursued by Australian law enforcement?
dee,
If it were me, I’d spare the flora and the fauna, and put my mouth to much better use …….
sampling chocolate! ….. and maybe cheese?
Enjoy your adventure!
Nancy2(aka Kevlar),
Chocolate is an invention of the gods!
And all Wartburgers shouted AMEN!
Nancy2(aka Kevlar),
CHOCOLATE AND CHEESE!!
(in fact, i’ve had chocolate confections made with cheese — they were incredible)
toss in a some espresso and a cigar (not a reference to Young Frankenstein) and, well,…. i just don’t have a word for it.
Have you been hanging out with them New Calvinists, elastigirl? 🙂
Max,
you must be joking.
Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,
Thanks for laying out in clear terms the case for the prosecution. I believe you have said before that prosecutors do not go after big name celebrities unless they have a sure case for conviction. I think you also quoted percentages of convictions. While this is another country I would imagine the same general truths would apply here.
Chocolate is made from cacao whose scientific name is Theobroma cacao. Theobroma is Greek for ‘God food’ and given by Linnaeus when he developed his scheme for naming things. One would guess Linnaeus liked drinking chocolate (eating chocolate was a later invention).
elastigirl,
That’s STEEN! STEEN!
Frankensteen…
Big people can afford cover-ups.
Little people can’t.
Muff Potter,
well, that’s as good a word as any!
Erp,
“Chocolate …. Greek for ‘God food’”
++++++++++++++
i knew it!!
Some of the young and restless within the new reformation smoke cigars with the dudebros, while talking about how great it is to be elected vs. the poor damned souls around them. They defend cigars by invoking Charles Spurgeon’s name, who was known to puff on one occasionally. You can even find Christian t-shirts with Spurgeon and a cigar. I don’t have a problem with smoking, but some of the young reformers incorporate it into their I-can-do-anything-I-want-to-theology.
“I am leaving on Wednesday for my long-awaited train trip around Switzerland.”
I assume you will be riding the Glacier Express, it is scenic overload. I’d you can, and $$$ permits, the Jungfraujoch is extremely impressive as well. IF you go their via Lucern, even the ride to Interlaken is one of the best rides in the world.
There is more than a bit of dark history in Zurich if you care. If you look at the statue of Zwingli at the Grossmunster, you will see a sword in one hand, and the Bible in the other, which spoke to the reformed vision of a fusion of church and state.
If you look carefully, there are small memorials there to the people, mostly Mennonites, that he killed in the name of his church-state hybrid .
Barbara Roberts,
Could his dementia have been Pick’s Disease? That will do just that, removal of inhibitions.
It is also called Frontotemporal dementia. It is a bad way to go, one of my co workers had it.
Max,
Used to be an anti-Calvinista blog called “Soteriology 101”. I remember one of his posts that touched on that exact subject. Photo up top was a Calvinista theologian who looked like a scuzzy biker with scraggly beard, wool cap, HUGE cigar, and HUGE stein of beer. Internal pics of the same guy, every one was with wall-to-wall cigar after cigar.
My comment on those pics: THUG LIFE.
Mennonites are Anabaptists, and the only thing the Pope, Luther, Calvin, and Zwingli could agree on was A Final Solution to the Anabaptist Problem.
BLUCHER!
Leonard Verduin called them “stepchildren” of the Reformation in his book “The Reformers and Their Stepchildren.” As you note, they were heavily persecuted by the “state” churches (Magisterial Protestants and Roman Catholics).
We are! And they hounded us to the ends of the earth, which at that time was North America. In Switzerland, they started selling men into Galley Slavery, and failing that putting people on barges and floating them down the Rhine. All this was for refusal to join the state church, and participate in it’s rituals.
The most recent mass migration was when the Canadian government attempted to force mass patriotic indoctrination on one of our groups, commonly known as the “Old Colony” church, contrary to the agreements they had when they came there. They sold their land, and went to Mexico.
Max,
So you have read that? I have never met anyone outside of our circles that has. Verduin was Dutch Reformed, but seems to be entirely sympathetic to our position.
He wrote another book, “Anatomy of a Hybrid” you might want to read. It is out of print, but easy obtainable. He traces the separation of church and state to the foundation of America.
Yes. Interestingly, I found a copy of Verduin’s “The Reformers and Their Stepchildren” at a yard sale! While he was “reformed”, Verduin provided a well-documented and fascinating look at another side of the reformation not often talked about … of the struggles of the “free church” vs. the “state church.”
Judas Maccabeus,
Would you mind providing a bit more detail on what the Canadian government did (including date(s))? And are any of the affected groups what are sometimes referred to as Kanadier Mennonites? And are Kanadier Mennonites the same group(s) of people sometimes referred to as Mexican Mennonites? And, no insult or offence intended….the group you refer to as the “Old Colony” church, are they sometimes also referred to as black bumper Mennonites because they paint the decorative chrome of their cars black?
My apologies for so many questions….my knowledge of Canadian history is sorely lacking, and the more I learn about Canadian history (and some Canadians), the more ashamed (and sad) I feel about being a Canadian.
researcher,
No, the “black bumper “ Mennonites are from what is called the Weverland” or sometimes the Horning conference. I have friends in that conference. “Old Order” has more to do with one’ church practices than with how much of “modernity” you reject. For example, they do not have Sunday school or youth groups. We share with them an unpaid ministry and sing without instruments in our services. If there are any Canadians here, there is a similar group in the Mariam-Waterloo area, but I cannot remember their name.
The “Old Colony “ group originated in the Netherlands, and migrated first to East Prussia, and later to what is now Ukrainian territory. Each time, it was to avoid military service and the bad influence of the surrounding culture. In the 1870s they migrated to Manitoba with promises of exemption from military service and the ability to run their own schools. These were considered highly desirable immigrants, and largely are the ones who brought winter wheat cultivation to the North American continent. Sadly, the latter promise was broken in the early part of the last century. The clear intent of the Government of Canada was to force the assimilation of these German speakers into the mainstream culture. As a result, most of them left. If you look at the current example you see in Canada of the Indian schools can you blame them? I have friends in this group as well.
In any case, they left to retain the ability to raise their children as they and their church saw fit. If faced with a similar choice, I would do so too, assuming someone would take us.
Here is an article from one encyclopedia that would describe this, it’s author would have a much more “liberal “ drift than I would.
https://gameo.org/index.php?title=Old_Colony_Mennonites
You have shared your shock about the graveyards at the residential schools (as I recall). Those stories are hard for anyone of any nationality to hear.
I cringe at some aspects of American history and recent events. Paradoxically, learning the details helps me. Facing a group’s evil is like getting a bad diagnosis: the truth will set us free in ways that blissful ignorance cannot.
Opportunities sometimes arise to take action too. A local group here spent years working to restore an African American cemetery that had literally been paved over in the name of progress. Simpler actions include donating to a food bank or volunteering with people who have less than we do. Chances are fair that their ancestors encountered disadvantage.
Judas Maccabeus,
One of my writing partners (the burned-out preacher) comes from PA Dutch country and is Anabaptist. He described the various Anabaptists as follows:
* Mennonites are one step beyond Anabaptist.
* Old Order Mennonites are one step beyond Mennonites.
* Amish are one step beyond Old Order Mennonites.
* Old Order Amish are one step beyond Amish.
* It is impossible to go one step beyond Old Order Amish.
Funny thing is, I encountered Amish in SoCal, at the local Amtrak station. As far as I could tell, they seemed to be transferring between the Southwest Chief (LA/Chicago) and the Surfliner (LA/San Diego). It got to the point that Id check the station platforms for Amish/No Amish. Bizarre to find Amish that far west.
Judas Maccabeus,
Thank you for your reply, Judas Maccabeus, as well as the link you provided. I now have a bit better understanding of a number of things….I would write a more detailed explanation, but for my own safety and protection, I cannot. And I’m not surprised the Canadian government ended up behaving falsely (something which remains unchanged at many levels of Canadian government and politics).
And I get seriously annoyed with those people in Manitoba (I spent some time there) who complained about Mennonites, yet wouldn’t acknowledge the assistance provided by Mennonites (including those who traveled to Manitoba from elsewhere) when major events occurred (such as the almost-annual Red River flooding).
Headless Unicorn Guy,
The Mennonites in my area drive cars, carry cell phones, and have electricity in their homes. While the women still have a certain style of dress, you can’t tell the men from regular folk in these parts. Would they be some sort of “New Order Mennonites”?
Judas Maccabeus,
Thank you for your information. How does all of this fit with the Manhattan Mennonite Fellowship, which operates Jacob Menno House as a pacifist outpost of affordable housing in New York City?
I briefly met some folks from Menno House long ago when in the city. Had I not known they were Mennonites, I would have assumed they were Quakers.
That. And I receive a greater understanding of so many of the people I have encountered in life, even if only in hindsight.
….or (lightly-used) furniture to the local Salvation Army Furniture bank, points from some Rewards programs, lightly-used items to local second-hand / used item stores (e.g. the Salvation Army, Catholic Charities, Mennonite Central Committee), items from home renovation projects to local stores that sell these items to raise money for those with various challenges, support (if you dine out or pick-up) restaurants who hire (and / or train) people with various challenges, etc. 🙂
researcher,
That’s a great list! Especially as so many of us remain somewhat isolated, it’s great to know about ways we can help other people.
My in-person volunteer group just resumed this month. Going back was nerve racking but very fulfilling. Precautions galore…
Four words for that:
HABITAT FOR HUMANITY RE-STORE.
The wildest combination of Thrift Store and Building Salvage Yard I’ve ever run across.
Thank you for asking your question, Bridget. Like all countries, the Australian law enforcement and judicial system has members who are Satanists (…and many are Freemasons too). This means that while there are some good cops in the lower levels who are willing to investigate allegations of satanist ritual abuse, the investigations are quashed by higher-ups in the legal and policing systems.
I gave a link to the interview Fiona Barnett did of Debra. Debra’s two children testified that they witness ritual abuse and child murder at Hillsong. The two children were awarded crimes compensation… but awards of crimes compensation are made by the civil arm of the judicial system where findings are made on “the balance of probabilities” (aka “the preponderance of evidence”). Criminal allegations, on the other hand, must be heard in the criminal courts which can only make findings on “beyond reasonable doubt” —— a much higher standard of proof.
Hence, even if police investigations of satanist ritual abuse were NOT quashed by high level police officers, and criminal charges were laid, proof beyond reasonable doubt that the crimes were committed is very hard to achieve. The satanists are very skilled at hiding and destroying all the evidence, the dead bodies, etc. For example, they eat some of the bodies they kill as part of the satanist ritual, what is not eaten they feed to dogs or pigs. Or dispose of in ways that they will never be found. And they are VERY skilled at intimidating and removing/ crushing/ de-voicing/ *suiciding* any potential witnesses.
There are senior politicians, judges, doctors, business people, oligarchs, aristocrats, academics, etc., who are in the satanist network. This is a worldwide fact, it is not peculiar to Australia. I have read and heard many testimonies from survivors who state this to be true. That is why I believe it. I have personally known in my life several survivors of satanist ritual abuse. I have heard their testimonies in detail. I first met a survivor nearly three decades ago. Since then I have met several more.
The current Australian Prime Minister, Scott Morrison, has publicly stated that Brian Houston is his mentor. Scott Morrison attends a church that is a sister church to Hillsong.
Check out this link: https://web.archive.org/web/20200922005036/https://fionabarnett.org/2019/10/01/nsw-parliament-is-prime-minister-scott-morrison-protecting-pedophiles/
This next link states taht Scott Morrison attended Frank Houston’s church. https://web.archive.org/web/20200921235515/https://fionabarnett.org/2020/01/02/scott-morrison-was-in-pedo-frank-houstons-waterloo-hillsong-church/
That gives you a tiny bit of insight into how high up the satanists have infiltrated the major institutions of society. And I repeat, it is a worldwide problem. It has been and is still happening in the USA, Canada, UK, Europe… Many so-called Christians are involved in satanism and satanist child abuse and child trafficking. There are survivor testimonies from all over the world, and many survivors report that some or most of their abusers were church leaders and celebrity church leaders. I could name names, but Dee might not like me doing so as it might destroy her image of people she admires.
Australia has had two commissions to investigate systemic child abuse: the Wood Royal Commission, and, some years later, the Royal Commission into Institutional Child Abuse. Both of those commissions covered up all the testimonies given by survivors of satanist and ritual abuse. They received ritual abuse testimonies ‘in camera’ and refused to make them public, even when the survivors of satanist abuse specifically asked that their tesimonies be made public.The Royal Commission made public many other testimonies which they received. The Royal Commission refused to institute or even recommend investigations of allegations of satanist ritual abuse.
In other words, both those commissions were deliberately whitewashing ritual abuse and satanist child abuse.
The Australian public thought those commissions did a good job. In my view, and the view of many survivors of satanist abuse, that was the plan — the intention — all along: to quieten and allay the public’s concerns about child abuse, whilst covering up the most horrendous child abuse —— satanist ritual abuse.
Barbara Roberts,
You are airing conspiracy theories far, far beyond even the shocking abuse associated with Hillsong.
These theories have been around for centuries.
They are dehumanizing.
They can lead to violence.
By focusing on conspiracy theories, you are also undermining work against actual documented child abuse.
No, there is not a hidden worldwide network so sinister that it erases all evidence.
Please concentrate on the world we can actually see, and on abuse that actually occurs. Tragically, that gives us enough work for a lifetime.
Barbara Roberts,
Whew! Did QAnon tell you this?
Friend,
The similarities between Q-Anon and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion are striking.
Barbara Roberts,
Thank you for your response.
Child abuse is horrific, evil and can be ritualistic for the abuser. All child abusers can and do manipulate their victims and often those close to their victims. Whether or not there was/is a ring connected to Hillsong, I do not know. I’m sure there are rings of abusers as some have been uncovered. I hope law enforcement in all countries work to convict child abusers whether they are in rings or not, weather in Christian environments or not.
It does seem like Christians want to hide the evil among them. That is hard to understand. I’ve seen it often enough, though, that it makes one wonder about many Christian’s morality.
I do know that child abuse was often an unprosecuted and covered up crime until recently in history. Even in the 60s, 70s, and 80s laws were long in coming and the abused were not encouraged to come forward. Even now, statutes hinder adults from seeking justice for crimes against them as children. Much needs to be done.
Your first link above did not produce much. I could not view the video.
No, Q-Anon did not tell me this. I always had misgivings about Q-Anon.
Hi Bridget, the internet archive does not save YouTube videos. That’s why the video did not work. However, I easily found the video on YouTube. Here it is:
Pedophiles being protected-at it’s finest. Hillsong and Houston, September 2019, Parliament Address
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sHo9tXrBDE
In the video, David Shoebridge addresses the Australian Parliament. As an MP he is speaking under parliamentary privilege, which means he cannot be sued for saying what he said.
Fiona Barnett’s blog is currently not viewable. (I believe that she made it private because she was being so harassed by the evildoers.) That is why I had to share the internet archive link to her blog post.
Barbara Roberts,
“… We understand that at least two journalists have investigated Ms Barnett’s allegations and decided not to publish them.
And when we asked her to back up some of her claims, she was unwilling or unable to do so.”
https://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/episodes/approach-some-claims-with-caution/9973098
Barbara Roberts,
Thanks. There was nothing to even suggest it was a YouTube video.
The ABC is an active player in suppressing and discrediting reports of satanist ritual abuse. Fiona Barnett, being an outspoken victim of satanist ritual abuse, has been heavily mocked and derided by the mainstream media and the ABC in particular.
The ABC is pushing the narrative that protects the satanists. This is what the Bible tells us would happen: it calls Satan the prince of the power of the air and the ‘ruler of this world’.
Barbara Roberts,
PLEASE STOP.
I don’t know what is wrong with Fiona Barnett, but she claims to have been raped by three Australian prime ministers, Rihard Nixon, and Billy Graham. She has a thousand tales of murders that somehow never got reported.
When challenged, you and Fiona Barnett claim that any question just proves there’s a bigger and bigger cover-up.
You clearly know you are out of line.
PLEASE STOP.
researcher,
Max,
I will try a “threefor” here. Mennonites (and Amish as well, they are really a “subdivision” from us) represent a spectrum. Friend, the folks you ran into in New York are from MCUSA. The Canadian version is Mennonite Church, Canada. They are the group that conforms to the mainstream culture, and would be similar in many ways to mainline US denominations, with the addition of a strong social justice emphasis and a belief in nonresistance, not using force or violence in any form. They will generally have paid ministers, recruited from outside. You can’t tell them from the general culture, for the most part. They would strongly resemble quakers, as you noted.
Max, what you have run into are Conservative Mennonites, which is where I place on the order of things. Women will dress in a distinctively feminine manner, and wear a head covering in public life. Men will never be seen in public in shorts or sleeveless shirts, in many cases long sleeved shirts. They will not have tattoos. Neither women or men wear any kind of Jewelry, men will never wear neckties, as they are seen as vain and unbiblical. None of us will have TV in our homes, as that is seen as a pipeline of indecency and antichristian values. Virtually none of us will vote, or participate in politics, serve in the military, or enter law enforcement. We have an unpaid ministry, chosen from within the congregation. Ministers are never brought in from outside. “Youth Pastors” are an unknown, parents run such functions jointly. Churches generally never get over about 100 members, a church would be divided, and another formed. Authority without relationship is seen as illegitimate. Decisions are made as a group, but only after broad consensus, we really need to bring everyone along. One group requires a 75% approval to change anything. While some of you may disagree with this concept, everything is on the table when you join. Resigning is as simple as asking for your name to be withdrawn. My pastor jokes that we are the easiest church to leave, but the most difficult to join, that process takes about a year.
How “conservative” one is varies from church to church, and conference to conference. Mine likely would resemble what Max saw, it would not be unusual for us to be educated, at one point our church had 2 PhDs and 3 people with MAs on our membership. Some of the most conservative groups generally stop formal education earlier, some after 10th grade. That is very much the exception, though, while the church run school may stop at that point, students go on to a high school run by a less conservative group, or finish up in a home school setting. It is unusual now for anyone to have not gotten at least a high school diploma. Even from the most conservative groups, some go onto to college, and we have an abundance of nurses or teachers! In my group, most go on to postsecondary education. Some go to grad. school. Once again, the helping professions are a common choice.
The Amish represent the same spectrum as do we. The “Car Driving” Amish, commonly known as the “Beachey” amish, or Amish Mennonites. They represent the same spectrum as do we, I know Beachey guy with PhDs. Most choose agriculture or craft trades. If you were not really savvy as to the subtle differences in dress, you could not distinguish them from us. Marriages and church transfers move seamlessly across that gap, and we have pulpit exchanges with Beachey groups.
Old order groups are a totally different thing. They use horses NOT because they reject technology, but because using motor transport would enable people to live far apart. That is considered detrimental to a cohesive fellowship. Similarly electricity promotes dependence on the world. Each group makes its own decisions. There are both Old Order Mennonite and Amish groups.
Well, I hope I have answered your questions.
I am thinking “Blood Libel” here. The parallels are indeed striking.
Friend,
Sooner or later, wackos and wacky ideas find themselves to even the best Christian watchblogs. My daughter is social media manager for a Christian publisher … she shares lots of stories about the daft and their comments.
Max–re Mennonites. They come in many flavors. New Order is one specific group. I have friends who are Mennonite missionaries who dress quite like everyone else. I have friends in the Brethren in Christ, who are one of the Mennonite groups, and they dress normally also. Mennonite used to be more a theology, but many of those groups now are decidedly Wesleyan in their theology. Some are really liberal, some are fundamentalist, most are in between. Some are home church, some build buildings. Some are downright Amish in behavior and dress, while following Menno Simons instead of Jakob Amman. And some follow a theology more akin to George Fox of the Quakers.
In short, Mennonite is both a theology family, like Lutheran or Wesleyan, and a culture. Just like Baptists. But I never met anyone out of the wider Mennonite family that was not hard working and extremely caring. Yet inside the families there can be a sick level of control and discipline. Fascinating people.
I live where there are quite a number of the Old Order Amish, Mennonites, Brethren, Dunkers, and German Baptists. Adds a nice dose of spice to our otherwise bland homogenous culture:)
Max,
Thanks, Max. That perspective really helps. Daftness is not just on blogs, either… 🙂
Crikey (an Aussie news source) has this about some of the legal wrinkles in the Houston case:
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Charges against Houston have been brought under section 316 of the NSW Crimes Act, which makes it a criminal offence if a person fails to inform police of child sex abuse which that person knows or reasonably should have known occurred.
In 2018 — in what may be a complicating factor for the prosecution — NSW Parliament amended s316 to specify a series of “reasonable excuses” for not informing the police of child sex abuse. One of these was if the victim was an adult when the person learnt of the abuse, and there was reason to believe the victim did not want to involve police. This is the very defence which Brian Houston and Hillsong have advanced for not passing on information about Frank Houston’s offending.
So what’s the issue? In 1999, when the crime is alleged to have occurred, s316 allowed generally for a “reasonable excuse” — but it did not give specific examples of that.
The case might then turn on whether or not the victim in question, Brett Sengstock, did or did not want to go to the police — and what Brian Houston’s knowledge was.
This is precisely what Hillsong has seized on. In a public statement the church points to statements made by Sengstock to the royal commission, which Hillsong says “corroborate” that he “did not want the matter reported to the police”.
Hillsong has made the case publicly that the NSW government’s 2018 amendment to the law has “further clarified” that Houston’s actions qualified as a reasonable excuse under the law.
It’s over, then, to the prosecution.
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Full article at https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/the-long-road-to-prosecution-why-did-it-take-six-years-for-police-to-charge-brian-houston/ar-AANKzxc. Several Wartburgers will be interested in the article’s implication that Mr. Houston’s personal connections delayed movement on the case, when under the responsibility of certain officials.
Max
Friend,
Sooner or later, wackos and wacky ideas find themselves to even the best Christian watchblogs.
**************
A useful reminder to not judge the totality of an enterprise by its worst element.
Friend,
If you only knew what I know about extraterrestrials from the planet Xaru.
They are infiltrating us everywhere!
Christians need to be warned!
Friend and Max
Max, the people you ran ito. At Menno House in NYC are from a group called MCUSA. It is a part of the movement that has largely become conformed to the dominant culture. It would have strong social justice overtones, and would resemble other mainline churches. They would employ paid pastors they recruit from outside their church,
Friend,what you have run across are conservative Mennonites. We (I am a part of this group) wold be far less conformed to the mainstream culture. Women in our group would wear modest and distinctively feminine attire and a head covering, you would never see men in shorts or sleeveless shirts. None will have tattoos, and neither men nor women will wear any form of jewelry, or neckties for that matter. None of us would have a TV in our homes, and we carefully control internet use. We do not vote, nor do we serve on a jury if we can avoid it. There is a spectrum ranging from us, who have members who have PhDs to the most conservative groups that stop after 10th grade, although that is the exception. Virtually all complete high schools, and many go to college. Most of us who complete college are in “helping” professions. We have lots of nurses and teachers, and a few MDs as well. Agriculture still employs perhaps a majority of our members, skilled craftsmen are growing in predominance.
Pastors serve without a salary, and they are called from within the congregation. In smaller churches, some of the men are called up to preach when needed. I am such a person.
Among the Amish there is a similar pattern. There are the “Beachy” Amish who are largely indistinguishable from us conservative Mennonites, clear through to the Old Order which avoids motorized transport. This is not because they do not like cars, it is because they want to limit it’s effect on their church, if they had cars, they would begin to live further and further apart. They would see this as undesirable. I know a guy who runs a CMC milling machine at work, and goes home to a house without electricity.
People tend to have large families, 5-7 being normal. Hence, the reputation for frugality that is well earned. To support such a large family on one salary requires wasting nothing. This frugality, as well as a strong work ethic, results in people generally being successful in farming or business. Sometimes outsiders grumble at this as you have noticed, Friend.
My pastor once commented that ours is the most difficult church to join, it generally takes a year, but the easiest to leave, simply write and request that your name be withdrawn. By the time you join, you know all that it entails, it is all written down for all to see.
I hope this answers your questions.
From the linked article:
And once again, the “church” people use the words “serious moral failure”.
(Seems like the “church” people use “serious moral failure” as a catchall term….I can’t imagine the impact this must have on the victims.)
Thank you for all the information in your reply, Judas Maccabeus. From what you describe, many of the Mennonites I have encountered have been Conservative Mennonites.
It’s interesting to me that these organizations have the Gaul to conceal and cover up crimes! These are not minor crimes but crimes which carry prison terms and are felonies. In 1789 a U.S. law was passed misprision in the federal system is a felony punishable by a fine and up to 3 years in prison! Not reporting and covering it up is no different when a driver of a bank robbery is charged with the same crime just for being the get away. This is no different.
Which is Chrisitanese for “Caught with a Live Boy or a Dead Woman”.
When I heard the words “Deep State” and “The Cabal” in context, I immediately pegged them as the latest Code Words for “The Jooz”.
Except now The Cabal(TM) extracts adrenochrome from the kidnapped children’s pineal glands instead of baking their blood into Passover Matzoi.
Though I actually did come across the latter on a YouTube comment thread about “Missing 411”, mystery disappearances in and around National Parks. Guy claimed “The Jooz” had honeycombed secret tunnels under all the National Parks to abduct children for sacrifice. YouTube comment threads (especially fringe subjects) get really bizarre, but it’s rare to get to that Francis E Dec-level of weirdness.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
P.S. Dee might recognize the reference, but for the past two days I’ve been earwormed by some background music from an “Old Tesament” Star Trek episode – the Ekosian anthem from “Patterns of Force”.
The Big Book of Hoaxes describes The Protocols as “The Deadliest Hoax of All Time” – over 10 MILLION dead and counting. (Over 60 MILLION and counting if you include the related World War.) More people have been KILLED because of that Okhrana Dezinformatzia HOAX than aany other.
You could not have been thinking of professor John Gill…
I wonder how many might die due to Qanon disinformation? Sooner or later, unhinged people act on this sort of stuff.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Jewry has always been hated and despised.
In old Russia under the Tsars they got blamed for just about everything from still-born calves to drought and crop failure.
And yet no other people in human history have shown such resilience.
Hava Nagila!
Let’s just say I’ve always been amused by the coincidence of the names.
“Have two Nagilas!
They’re very small!”
(I also was a big fan of Dr Demento)