Jeffrey Chalmers and I were speaking about his experience with grooming when he was quite young. He came up with an idea that we should get a group of people to share their experiences. Let us know in the comments. You do not have to use your name.
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TWW a number of years ago inspired me to think about a “weird” experiences by my teacher when I was in the 7th grade. I verified it happened on a FB with some of my Christian 7-12 school classmates…. I then found the perp on Megan’s list. I then was on a professional trip to CA and found the court records for the perp… ( he was convicted years later after my experience)…. so, I at least, am convinced it was grooming. I will wait for others to see if they are interested in telling their stories, and we can attempt to compare…. my bet, their are similarities..
TWW and several other blogs I read have made me remember an employee from a Christian bookstore that treated a very young me in some…weird ways. Fortunately I only saw him twice. His intentions could have been innocent but looking back on it, I don’t know.
… a child groomed by a molester?
… an adult groomed by a monster?
What are the parameters of the stories you would like shared & compared?
Ava Aaronson,
Either… I think the more people are aware of it, the more that can be done to stop it… also, as we see time and again, the system tries to cover it up, deign it, etc. So, the more we document it, the more we show how perverts do it, the more support we give to people fighting it…
Could also be older teenage brother, or must it be by an adult?
I think the difference in age (and position within the family dynamics) would qualify.
It’s the One-Up/One-Down Position of Power that’s important.
And the presence of manipulation into The Position.
Grooming is a subset of Manipulation.
Make sure you get them aware of the Warning Signs and Red Flags of Grooming Manipulation.
Get behind the Angel of Light Mask successful predators wear.
And remember the “Cassandra Effect”. In the Iliad (original story of The Trojan War), Cassandra was a Trojan noblewoman who was cursed by the gods with Perfect Prophecycy. Everything she saw in the future, everything she prophesied would come true word-for-word — and nobody would ever believe her. EVER. Those who actually see the predator for what they are will often find themselves in Cassandra’s position.
Successful predators do not only groom their targets. Successful predators also groom third parties (especially those in positions of power and authority) as allies and accessories, and to pre-discredit the victim should the victim ever squeal.
“GO AHEAD AND SQUEAL, TATTLE-TALE! NOBODY WILL EVER BELIEVE YOU! YOU’RE JUST THE CRAZY KID AND I’M THE SWEET LITTLE ANGEL!” — my NPD/Sociopath little brother
Well I would be willing to share then.
– recognized this after reading at TWW the stories of couples/families/singles being snagged and held captive in authoritarian churches, the steps of manipulation, intimidation, domination:
1. Love bombing immediately following meeting at a coffeeshop …
2. A dozen rose$ every week, a different color each week to symbolize, something … Gifts galore, with our names engraved as a couple, wants to know ring size. Grooming. Candy from a “stranger” it would seem, in retrospect. He’s a “Christian”, an executive; prays, attends Bible study, church, history with God it seems.
3. “I dedicate my whole life to you, you are my #1 priority,” tagline happened quickly, before actually building relationship, friendship.
4. Marriage proposals every week (seeking a covenant). (But do we even know each other?)
5. Questioning every interaction with other people, control seeping in.
6. 24/7 surveillance of activities and questioning: “I put you as #1, why aren’t you doing the same?” – not respectful of other commitments, relationships of any kind.
7. One month in, a blow-up temper tantrum with accusations (“You are the most — person on the planet!”) Followed by an apology days later, with “I’ll never blow up again but your fault, so maybe don’t cause this.”
8. Love bombing, then surveillance, then control-seeking, commitment-seeking, blow-up after another month, intimidation, apology (with blame), reboot, etc.
9. So, did research: if this is habitual, it will never stop; “he controls himself in public/at job, but not with you.”
10. Gave him a warning, one more time, it’s over. Month goes by. Blow up. Done.
Now I see this playbook, in film, in books, in stories. NPD. Skimmed through “Bling Empire” last night. Andrew does exactly this to Kelly, but she won’t give him up. He is outraged that her friends overheard him yelling at her on her phone (not her fault – he was loud & out of line). He wants his emotional outbursts to be their little secret in their relationship. The secrets are out so he blames her. Yet she keeps going back to him. Tragic. Playbook in play.
Churches & theology would like to steer clear of “domestic” situations, or with a wide swath put the man in charge (problem solved) while silencing women & children. But Christianity is reconciliation with God followed by transformation in all human relationships – what life is. Love God, love neighbor as self. Done. Said Jesus.
Ava Aaronson,
11. “Sad puppy dog routine”- not my phrase, but rather a manipulator’s phrase for their pattern, as part of a cluster of patterns of disregard for others.
I’m counting on this.
But not this.
“Manipulation, intimidation, domination.”
I’ve experienced this with a former “Christian” boyfriend and with a former church. But not as a child with an adult. What kinds of context are you looking for? As a parent in particular, I’d find this kind of knowledge helpful. Forewarned is forearmed.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
I’m going to throw an article I found really useful into this discussion. It’s not by a Christian & may be a bit sweary but really useful stuff on grooming & why very often people don’t & won’t recognise it: https://victimfocusblog.com/2020/06/30/dr-jessica-taylor-explains-the-real-reasons-why-you-cant-spot-grooming-behaviour/
That doesn’t mean we don’t try, it does mean we don’t blame others or ourselves for missing things.
BeakerN,
IMHO the writer is describing socialization and getting along with others. When is grooming deadly or dangerous and destructive? When there is an intent to advantage the groomer for nefarious purpose, without the awareness of the groomed and which in turn harms the groomed.
i.e. the Olympic athletes who were inappropriately examined by the team doctor. He gradually encroached, thus groomed them to be his tool without their awareness. And their parents, who were in rhe room, were also groomed with lies and deception, covert assault.
When does socialization become sociopathic? … grooming as evil deception and assault on the agency and wellbeing of others? … in church or Christian settings? Love bombing for capture and evil control vs welcoming, accepting, inviting?
Horror of horrors!!!
My poor Christian ears!!!
BeakerN,
That was a very interesting article.
I would be willing to share
Ava Aaronson,
In one sense I want to say ‘yeah, obviously’. But note that often it is only the intent that makes it ‘grooming’ rather than ‘socialising’, & can consist of the exact same actions. What then what the intent is what the ultimate goal is, i.e. love & affection in an appropriate relationship which is expressed sexually, rather than sexual assault without consent.
What I found really valuable about this article is the recognition that much of what is termed ‘grooming’ in abuse cases is used in ordinary everyday life for other reasons. I’ve done decades of work with vulnerable & challenging teens – some of the skills I use to ‘connect’ with them are exactly what may be used by another adult too, but to draw them into drug dealing or sexual exploitation. I’ve been aware of this for years & talked to my team about it. It’s to remind us to be careful with what we do, & why we do it.
There’s also a great point here in that we can (&should) learn what red flags in behaviour are, but not think these make us entirely invulnerable, or that we are to blame if it goes wrong, that we have culpably ignored red flags we should have seen. People are cleverer, more subtle & nuanced than that. We shouldn’t immediately blame victims of grooming, or ourselves if it happens to us.
It’s normal human behaviour in the main, & can be used for good, or for ill.
Ava Aaronson, BeakerN,
I read the article before I read your comments….some of the what you commented on had crossed my mind as well.
BeakerN,
IMHO, victims or IOW, witnesses, are never to blame.
Your point, well taken.
Like in the case of the treacherous Olympic gymnasts’ doctor, his exams in another setting might have been appropriate. In his case, violation. Therein the encroachment. A predator cleverly cloaks in “normalcy” but is never normal.
Yes, motive, intent, appropriateness, endgame, effect on the recipient … all matter. Actions are not sterile.
BeakerN,
Great article… and this is exactly the kind of discussions we should all be having…
Christina,
That is about as unsubstantiated inuendo as I’ve ever heard.
Forest Bedford,
Appraently you do not understand how grooming begins in very subtle ways. Tis is done by expert molesters to see if the individual is open to his/her advances. It slowly increases, attempting to see if the individual is a good target.
There was a man I know who volunteered in a school. A *nice, elderlyt man* who no one knew was a sewrail molester who had fled California with his teacher wife who covered for him.
he began writing cute little cards to the little girls in a class. Bunnies, butterflies, etc with cute little stickers all over them. It progressed to giving them a little piece of candy. What a nice, elderly man, right. Then he started dropping the pieces of candy into their laps while they were sitting. Just before it got worse, he was found touching little girls in his neighborhood and was arrested,m spending 8 months in the linker.
He went onto a new church in which I warned the pastor that the guy was dangerous. he said he was repentant and the parole officer said he was *just fine.* I left that church and letter learned he *did something.* It was in the news.
So, Christina’s comments were on the money. Early grooming appears like harmess attention.
I hope that you would rething your comment. However, I’m glad you said what you did because it alerts me that more education is necessary.
To all who wrote here:
If you want to share your story, please send it to me at dee@thewartburgwatchwatch.com. In the subject line say *Grooming story* to alert me.
If you have said what you want to say in the comment, then I will include that as well.
Once I get all these, I will write a post. Please let me know the name you wish to go by since many of you will prefer to remain anonymous.
Thank you all in advance.
That.
So how can you distinguish harmless attention from sexual grooming?
Especially when the party giving the attention is also clueless?
How can you trust?
Here’s an example from early Furry Fandom:
Predator was a SMOF (“Secret Master of Fandom”, someone with no official position but still of importance in the fandom) who would hold “sketchbook parties” at his place (which served as a meetup location in local fandom of the time — what Old School SF litfans would call a “Slan Shack”).
Before Internet art archives, sketchbook parties were a way of showing off your art/cartoon collection from various artists. Everyone would bring their sketchbooks with the art they’d collected at various cons (both their own and other artists), show them off to each other, and if artists/cartoonists themselves, draw in each others’ books. Some were “xerox parties” where everyone would decamp to the local Kinkos to copy and exchange the copies. This in and of itself was fairly common, and aroused no suspicion.
Well, now for the sexual grooming (as related to me by two or three others): Predator would show off his sketchbooks, handing them to the target – in a cerain order. First innocuous, character pics, maybe pinups — getting more and more “specific” and graphic with each sketchbook. While the target was perusing the books, the predator would observe his reactions. Very closely. Especially as the sketchbooks got more and more hardcore with the predator’s personal kinks. Not abrupt but gradual, like boiling a frog ever so slowly. By the time the target had gotten through the sketchbooks, the predator had a good idea what floated the targets boat and which approach routes to use to get into his pants.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Thank you for insight into grooming in the Furry. Fandom community. It is really no different than that what we see by predators in churches.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
I have watched two different documentaries on pornography.
The first documentary was part of a Psychology class. The second documentary was brought in by a local church.
The first documentary brought to light just how incredibly low people can sink in their depravity.
The second documentary demonstrated how easily people can slowly be dragged (or groomed) into the vast cesspit of pornography.
The second documentary provided a much clearer example how grooming works – the grooming process does not have to start with a person….and I’m guessing I’m not saying anything new to other Wartburgers.
Your Furry Fandom example, Headless Unicorn Guy, sounds as though the predator had merged both documentaries into something that took on a life of its’ own.
That example was a guy I knew. The guy who introduced me to proto-anime fandom (which was in its earliest days out here). He always had a short fuse, but he literally went crazy when he turned 30 — like a Damascus Road Conversion Experience to same-sex sexual predation. Borderline ehebephile; his conquests (and harem-building) had to be those visibly younger than himself (“I’M YOUNG! I’M YOUNG! REALLY! SEE? SEE? SEE?”). The shrinks would have had a field day with him as a case study. Most extreme mid-life crisis I have ever seen.
And the side effects were he went from short fuse to constant hissy-fit, Witnessing for his sexual lifestyle, torpedoing our friendship, most of my social circle, and contributing to my breakup with the only girlfriend I ever had. Played the Homophobia Card off the bottom of the deck whenever confronted, almost torpedoed the very fandom he helped start. (Cannot go into detail on that last one, as I’m trying to keep everything on a “no name” basis.)
Remember James Dobson/Fred Phelps/Jack Chick’s sermons and tracts about “What Those Queers Are REALLY Like”? When he “outed” (his term, not mine), he acted like he was using those sermons and tracts as a how-to manual! Like they were his guide to being Gay! His pelvic antics got so extreme that he got banned from SF conventions in two major cities at the request of the local Gay community.
Looking back, I still wonder if I was living in a multi-season run of South Park.
Bad Craziness.
Also a warning sign in retrospect: When I first met him, he was trying to write stories using his imaginary critters (what nowadays is called “Furry Fiction”). He told me he had problems completing the stories because he would write all the ‘hot’ scenes first then would lose interest. THAT should have been an immediate red flag, but I was pretty clueless at the time.
Headless Unicorn Guy,
In the above, when I say “Damascus Road Conversion Experience”, I am not exaggerating. The only way to describe it is “He Accepted Same-Sex Predation as His Personal LORD and Savior” like some sort of F’ed Up Altar Call. Even his playing the Homophobia card whenever criticized was the identical dynamic to crying “PERSECUTION!!!!!”
In short, for a period of several years after his Conversion, his sexual predation became a Fundamentalist Religion to him. Approached with the all-consuming cosmic-level seriousness of a religious fanatic.
(Fannish personalities can be intense upon their interest to the point of obsession, but this was one of the most extreme cases of fanaticism I’ve seen in the various fandoms. And one of the darkest.)
I knew someone like this….
He was a serial domestic abuser, but somehow he managed to slip under the radar of the criminal justice system.
Your additional insights are eye-opening.
researcher,
My example’s heyday was from the mid-Eighties through somewhere into the Nineties — long before social media. Even before Dateline NBC started up To Catch a Predator — I would have LOVED to watch the guy on TV meeting Chris Hansen the hard way.