Sovereign Grace Pastors Support ARBCA Couple Who Burned an Infant Child in Their Care. Is Sovereign Grace and ARBCA Considering a Merger?

I went to law school. And I became a prosecutor. I took on a specialty that very few choose to pursue. I prosecuted child abuse and child homicide cases. Cases that were truly gut-wrenching. But standing up for those kids, being their voice for justice was the honor of a lifetime. Susana Martinez

Todd Wilhelm has been writing up a storm since he returned from Dubai. As our readers know, Todd had a rough time in Dubai with 9 Marks. He was a member of a Sovereign Grace church prior to moving to Dubai. Needless to say, he knows the drill.

This is an horrific story. An ARBCA couple, who believed they were following the teachings of the *bible,* burned a tiny child by immersing her in scalding water, leaving permanent scarring on her bottom. I believe it is important for readers to understand that ARBCA and Sovereign Grace  place an emphasis on their teachings to be followed by their attendees.

*Biblical counseling* and the abuse of little child.

Would it surprise you to learn that the pastor of the Sovereign Grace Church considered himself a biblical™ counselor? I didn’t think so. In 2010, we posted Connecting the Dots . . . SGM, CCEF, and Peacemaker Ministries.

Add to that the series I’ve been doing on the embarrassing lack of education that *biblical counselors* receive and you can imagine the problems that might occur when said counselor is confronted by a terrible case of child abuse.

Then, there is the embarrassing history of Sovereign Grace Churches and alleged sex abuse coverup…

What is the relationship between Sovereign Grace and ARBCA ?

Could a merger be in the works?

I believe it is safe to assume that the ARBCA church and the Sovereign Grace church share similar teachings. So, could it be that Sovereign Grace Churches and the rapidly diminishing ARBCA denomination will join together in one happy, likeminded conglomeration? Stay tuned.


Sovereign Grace Pastors Trey & Rich Richardson Support ARBCA Couple Who Burned Infant Child in Their Care, No Concern for Victim or Wishes of Adoptive Couple link

Two weeks ago I wrote an article titled “ARBCA Insider John Giarizzo is Caught Lying, Admits ARBCA Cover-up Yet Manages to Keep Job.” At the end of the article, I commented on the relationship between Giarrizzo’s church – Grace Covenant Church – and Sovereign Grace Church of Gilbert. (A church I was formerly a member of.)

Trey Richardson, a pastor of Sovereign Grace Church, Gilbert, lectured on biblical™ counseling at San Tan ARBCA.

You may recall that Trey Richardson, one of the pastors at Sovereign Grace, had lectured on Biblical counseling at a Sunday school class at Grace Covenant Church three years ago. In an attempt to ascertain what the relationship was between the two churches, I had attempted to contact Trey several times, leaving four messages, but he never returned any of my calls.

Trey Richardson fancies himself to be a professional counselor of sorts. His bio on the Sovereign Grace website states:

“Trey is a trained, experienced and skilled Biblical counselor who walks out his passion for prayer and pastoral care by overseeing Small Groups, the prayer team and compassionately counseling couples and individuals.”

But to my knowledge, Trey is not a professionally licensed counselor.  I believe he has taken some courses through CCEF (Christian Counseling & Educational Foundation) but CCEF, on their website, clearly states:

“Please note that CCEF is not a certifying agency. CCEF does not “certify” or “endorse” counselors who have completed one of our certificate programs. If you wish to refer to yourself as a “certified counselor” or “certified biblical counselor,” you should pursue certification through an organization that provides this type of certification. Some organizations will accept CCEF courses as part of their training requirement. Licensure as a professional counselor is offered through state agencies and typically requires a graduate degree from an accredited institution.”

That Trey Richardson is clearly not a professionally licensed counselor will become evident as you read the rest of this article.

Child abuse and ARBCA’s San Tan church

As a prelude to this article, you may wish to read an article I published on August 14, 2018 titled, “More Child Abuse Perpetrated By Members of an ARBCA Church.” It will give you the necessary background to the information below.

Caleb and Mary Beery were members of San Tan Reformed Baptist Church, this church was a member of ARBCA and was “planted” by Grace Covenant Church, mentioned above. (I plan on writing another article which will deal more in-depth with the crimes of the Beery’s,  but the purpose of this article is to expose, once again, Sovereign Grace Churches care for the perpetrators of crimes against children while showing no concern for the wounded children. This seems to be systemic throughout the Sovereign Grace Churches denomination, a part of their DNA, if you will.)

The couple received prison sentences.

The Beery’s are both now convicted felons, having plead guilty to two counts of child abuse. They both accepted plea bargains and will be serving six months in prison followed by seven years of probation. They claim to have used excessive force in disciplining a one-year-old child in their care whom they had hoped to adopt. They said they “disciplined” her for not coming when called by spanking her with a spatula. What in fact took place was the little baby was dipped in scalding water, causing burns on her bottom which have scarred her for life.

The screenshot below is taken from the Presentencing Investigation report. The entire document can be viewed at the end of this post.

Here is what the adoptive father, speaking on behalf of the baby girl had to say:

San Tan ARBCA church gave the abusive couple permission attend Sovereign Grace of Gilbert.

The Beery’s recently quit attending their ARBCA church, and with the permission of their ARBCA elders, started attending Sovereign Grace Church of Gilbert! (Not what I would call an improvement!) They also started attending counseling sessions with Trey and his wife, Charlotte in September.

Trey would not have had access to the Presentence Investigation report as it wasn’t filed with the court until October 10th.  If he would have had the report he would have known that the Beery’s purposely burned the infant in their care. As the evaluation below states, “the injuries caused to the victim are extremely troubling.” I also doubt the Beery’s were truthful with Trey and Charlotte because in all of the documents I have read nobody who is in contact mentions the burns. All they seem to admit to is that they spanked the child with a spatula, using excessive force. This is what they “repented” of.  They also admitted (and repented) for purposely disregarding the agreement they signed as foster parents to never use corporal punishment on the child.

I hope Trey was not aware of the fact that the Beery’s intentionally burned the infant in their care because if he was aware of that fact he should have known he was dealing with two individuals who have some serious problems, problems way beyond the scope of his counseling abilities. To know such information and not refer the Beery’s to a professional would be criminal, in my opinion.

Two weeks after the couple started attended the church, Sovereign Grace Pastor Richardson and his son, also a pastor under him, wrote letters of support for the couple to the church.

As it was, the Richardson family – Trey and his wife Charlotte, and their son Rich would have us believe they have gained enough insight into the character of the Beery’s over a two week time period to write positive character reference letters to Judge McCarville! The letters, submitted to the Court, can be viewed below.

Rich admits he has not known the Beerys very long, yet apparently long enough to recommend the Berrys be given work releases from their prison sentence! This is foolhardy. One would think that the senior pastor and a leader in the denomination would possess a bit more wisdom.

Trey, the “trained, experienced and skilled Biblical counselor” doesn’t prove any wiser. After counseling the Beery’s for a “few weeks” he can attest to the exemplary character of the Beery’s because for one thing, they do all their assigned homework! This is just incredibly naive.

What really aggravates me, and yet is historically typical of Sovereign Grace pastors, is their rush to forgive the criminals and even speak of them in glowing terms, while making no mention of the victims. One wonders if the Richardson clan have bothered contacting Jeff and Stephanie Ryan, the adoptive parents of the poor little child the Beerys burned, to express their care and concern for the infant and to see if the Ryan’s would approve of them writing letters to the Court, in essence, asking the judge t0 be lenient with the Beerys, because, after all, they do their assigned homework! This is outrageous. The Beerys should have received longer sentences and they surely do not need to be granted work release while serving their six months. And Sovereign Grace pastors wonder why those outside of their echo chamber detest them? Seriously?

The results of the trial.

If you link to Todd’s post, you will see the entire sentencing document. Here is the synopsis (or whatever legal term they use) of the plea agreement for the wife. In the document you will see that she admits that she and her husband *misinterpreted the Bible.*

For further information on the Sovereign Grace denomination, please read the following articles:

Sovereign Grace Ministries and Abuse: Time to Speak Out
“And the abuser is seen as repentant and restored, and you think, well, maybe it’ll be okay. That process of rooting out sin is really thorough. And they have so much accountability–from their accountability partner and their care group leader and from the pastor.”

Christianity Today – We Need an Independent Investigation of Sovereign Grace Ministries
“To put it simply: Sovereign Grace Churches (SGC; formerly Sovereign Grace Ministries) and its individual churches and leaders, present and former, who have been accused of failing to adequately respond to past incidents of child and sexual abuse should submit to a thorough, truly independent investigation.”

PUBLIC RESPONSE TO SOVEREIGN GRACE CHURCHES
by Rachael Denhollander
“In a recent article with Christianity Today I referenced deep concerns with the intentional failure to report sexual assault perpetrated in multiple churches, by multiple elders, at Sovereign Grace Ministries (SGM), now “Sovereign Grace Churches” (SGC). Three days ago, SGC responded to this article and stated I was “mistaken” in my statements and that these concerns “are not true and have never been true”. They further stated that they would not respond to my “false accusations” with evidence as to why they are false, because they would appear “unsympathetic” to victims of abuse. They linked, as proof, to the dismissal of the civil suit against them. The lawsuit was dismissed because the statute of limitations had expired. This is a dismissal on technical grounds only, it had nothing to do with the substantive claims made against SGM. It simply means that the time for which legal proceedings can be initiated has expired and therefore the court no longer has the authority to examine the merits of the plaintiff’s claims. Ultimately, this dismissal means that the evidence against SGM was never examined by the courts. This is not evidence, in any way, shape, or form, that SGM has not done what is alleged.”


Comments

Sovereign Grace Pastors Support ARBCA Couple Who Burned an Infant Child in Their Care. Is Sovereign Grace and ARBCA Considering a Merger? — 99 Comments

  1. Disgusting. I live in Pinal County, which is where this happened. I have been a CASA (Court Appointed Special Advocate) for many years and have met Judge McCarville. I suspect this is only the tip of the iceberg and there is a network of abusers hiding behind churches here.

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  2. Sovereign Grace Gilbert is watching.

    Last Friday, Todd tweeted out the story and copied me on the tweet. A short time later, Rich Richardson messaged me on Facebook. Since I’d just gotten back from Japan less than 12 hours before and my body clock was seriously messed up, I had no idea what was going on. Rich really wants to talk to me, because he’s concerned I might show up on the sidewalk outside his church again.

    I have some thoughts about what I’d say here; Dee and Todd pretty much covered them. I am appalled that Rich and Trey would write recommendations for two people who pled guilty to felony child abuse (at least that’s my understanding from reading the docs, but I’m still pretty fuzzy from my Japan trip, so I could be wrong) when they only knew them for a couple of weeks. I am completely boggled. I may have the opportunity to tell Rich and Trey, “You guys really screwed up here. What about the victim? Did you take her into account?”

    I’d also note that the parents violated the contract they signed with the authorities where they would not use corporal punishment. The child was 16 months old when she was removed from the home and the Beerys had been hitting her with a spatula already. I am not a child development specialist but it’s my understanding that babies and toddlers simply do not have the cognitive ability to get what the Beerys wanted her to do (come when they called, like a dog). Those abilities come along later. But even beyond the child development aspect, the Beerys took in this little girl as a foster child and basically lied when they said they would not use corporal punishment. I really wish Rich and Trey had taken that into consideration before writing a recommendation.

    I hope this makes sense; I am still dog tired from the jet lag. The Beery case was awful before Sovereign Grace Gilbert got involved and I don’t think the leadership there operated in the best way.

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  3. “Is Sovereign Grace and ARBCA Considering a Merger?”

    I hope so – they deserve each other! It’s best to put all the bad apples in one basket.

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  4. Keep ratcheting up the bad press on this brutal religion (ARBCA and SGM).

    You guys (TWW) are making a difference and will help to free one human being at a time, before they are stripped of their humanity and turned into pew zombies.

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  5. Muslin, fka Dee Holmes: I’d also note that the parents violated the contract they signed with the authorities where they would not use corporal punishment.

    Even if I did believe in corporal punishment – which I don’t -, the question remains:

    How bent do you have to be to beat a one- or one-and-a-half year old child?

    I think that one reason that a lot of American christianity is so utterly scr**ed up is the excessive amount of spanking, paddling (or whatever you call it) going on. That can only lead to adults with serious problems. The fact that some manage to overcome this initial handicap does not make it any more right.

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  6. How can these people have ANYTHING to do with those who would deliberately harm a child? There are a lot of devils in churches.

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  7. Bystander: Disgusting

    Absolutely.

    I was also struck by the letter that said they have ‘profound sorrow and grief over the circumstances they find themselves facing‘ in court. Like, gee, they are upset they might go to jail? Let’s let them off then.

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  8. Shannon H.: There are a lot of devils in churches.

    Agreed. Demons are not myths. They are real entities. Jesus, the apostles, and preachers through the ages have warned Christians about their presence and their influence. Demons go to church. 21st century Christians should not write them off so easily, but pray for discernment to recognize their activity.

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  9. Bystander: I have been a CASA (Court Appointed Special Advocate) for many years and have met Judge McCarville. I suspect this is only the tip of the iceberg and there is a network of abusers hiding behind churches here.

    Network hiding under the radar or Network with Friends in High Places?

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  10. Max: Agreed.Demons are not myths.They are real entities.Jesus, the apostles, and preachers through the ages have warned Christians about their presence and their influence.Demons go to church.21st century Christians should not write them off so easily, but pray for discernment to recognize their activity.

    Problem is, all too often “discernment” means Seeing DEMONS Under Every Bed and pointing fingers like a Witchfinder-General.

    In the preface to Screwtape Letters, Lewis wrote “There are two errors regarding the race of Devils. We either deny their existence completely, or acknowledge their existence and take an unhealthy interest in them. And the Devils hail a materialist or a magician with equal delight.” (from memory)

    Channeling The Moody Blues, it’s A Question of Balance.

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  11. Headless Unicorn Guy: too often “discernment” means Seeing DEMONS Under Every Bed and pointing fingers like a Witchfinder-General

    Agreed, which is just another form of the demonic which is entertained in some corners of the American church.

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  12. I’ve pondered lately what it is about certain kinds of crime, and certain types of perpetrator, that is so persistently attractive to this kind of church business. They seen to love giving standing ovations, public praise, letters of affirmation, and any variation on that theme, to people who have raped, robbed, injured or abused another human being. What is so exciting about this form of “forgiveness”?

    I don’t have a definitive answer, but it may in part be that they feel it’s the most convincing way to conjure up a “miracle”.

    The god in whose name they market their services isn’t real. He/it can’t verifiably speak about things that haven’t happened yet, or heal – for instance – the physical burns on an abused child’s skin. Their “god” can’t, because they can’t, and their “god” is just the metaphorical equivalent of the mute block of wood so effectively parodied by Isaiah in the ancient Hebrew scriptures. And if they tried to claim that kind of miracle, they’d be found out very quickly. It’s much safer for them to take some result such as “repentance” or “god’s forgiven them”, that has no visible results and can’t be disproved. Also, it gets their followers excited and keeps the membership loyal and the tithes flowing.

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  13. Sick, sick, sick. Disturbing and hard to read. That poor little baby. Lord have mercy.

    On a much more trivial note…what on earth does “walking out (one’s) passion” mean? These people talk funny.

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  14. Nick Bulbeck: I’ve pondered lately what it is about certain kinds of crime, and certain types of perpetrator, that is so persistently attractive to this kind of church business. They seen to love giving standing ovations, public praise, letters of affirmation, and any variation on that theme, to people who have raped, robbed, injured or abused another human being. What is so exciting about this form of “forgiveness”?

    IMO, a lot of folks attending such churches do so because it makes them feel better about themselves. They can identify with church leaders who live (or have lived) on the edge because they do too. If there’s “forgiveness” for bad-actor church leaders, there’s hope for them. It’s a downright scary bunch who sit in the pews at some churches. Of course, Jesus died for sinners … they just don’t need to remain in that state and feel comfortable in church, especially in the pulpit! An exhortation to holy living is darn near missing in the America church.

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  15. No child would come to the people who were abusing him or her. These people are vile sickos and should spend twenty years in prison.

    This group of Christians has a fetish with abusing children.

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  16. The punishment is too light. The financial penalty must be mandatory. And, I think that the punishment should reflect the injury doled out. The child is scarred for life. The people who did it should be under a lifetime probation and should be banned from being within 50 feet of any child.

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  17. Nick Bulbeck,

    “…to people who have raped, robbed, injured or abused another human being. What is so exciting about this form of “forgiveness”?”

    Just spit-balling here but I think they believe it makes them more like Christ, who was the receiver of all these atrocities, yet cried out “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.” And then also addressed the THIEF beside him – affirming that “Today, you will be in Paradise with me.”

    This, in my opinion, is the sum total of their rationale that the ground is level at the foot of the cross – a false rationale but one they cling to with white knuckle fanaticism – ignoring all the rest of scripture that would speak otherwise.

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  18. Ishy,

    Being a CASA can also be depressing. The last case that I had was a teen who aged out of the system and chose to return to her mother’s home. I will never forget the day she said, “The State took my family away from me and I have no one to love me!”

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  19. A Texas Attorney,

    A Texas Attorney: The punishment is too light. The financial penalty must be mandatory. And, I think that the punishment should reflect the injury doled out. The child is scarred for life. The people who did it should be under a lifetime probation and should be banned from being within 50 feet of any child.

    Thank you!!!

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  20. A Texas Attorney: The punishment is too light. The financial penalty must be mandatory. And, I think that the punishment should reflect the injury doled out. The child is scarred for life. The people who did it should be under a lifetime probation and should be banned from being within 50 feet of any child.

    At times like this I think Singapore’s practice of caning might actually be appropriate.

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  21. Charis: Just spit-balling here but I think they believe it makes them more like Christ, who was the receiver of all these atrocities, yet cried out “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.”

    The crazy idea that they have any business forgiving someone *on behalf of someone else* though? They didn’t get that from Jesus.

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  22. My daughter and son-in-law just went through foster care training. They had to jump through a lot of testing and interview hoops over a 12-week period before they could become certified to care for a child in our state. They will make great, loving foster parents. I can’t imagine anyone going through that process and then end up being a child abuser! While that might happen in other “Christian” environments, it certainly appears that there is a special breed of weirdos attracted to SGM and ARBCA churches. The emphasis on “discipline” throughout their ranks is a major contributor to abuse of various sorts, IMO. Folks just seem to be standing by to mete out punishment to others at first opportunity. Claiming it to be God’s will is an even more sicker element of their behavior.

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  23. ishy: This makes me feel ill. How could anyone do that to a small child, and how could any church defend them?

    How?
    How about the sick and twisted religion they promote and adhere to?
    I’m bettin’ it has a lot to do with it.

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  24. Lea,

    “The crazy idea that they have any business forgiving someone *on behalf of someone else* though? They didn’t get that from Jesus.”

    Actually, IMO they believe this is what Jesus was referring to in John 20:23 “If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

    I have often heard John 20 cited in tandem with the concept of the “Keys of the Kingdom” found in Matthew 18:18 “Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

    They like to have their cake AND eat it, too. I have heard these verses used as a form of guilt-shifting, to lord it over “non-compliant” individuals struggling to extend forgiveness while patting themselves on the back that they have “forgiven all.” Then in the same breath use the Matthew 18 verses (15-20) as a weapon to wield judgement against individuals “caught in sin” as a precursor to shunning, excommunication, or discipline.

    What I find interesting is that they are too nearsighted and narcissistic to see they have the applications and target audiences reversed. Very much like the pharisees in the 1st century. Just my 2cents.

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  25. Muslin, fka Dee Holmes: Sovereign Grace Gilbert is watching.
    Last Friday, Todd tweeted out the story and copied me on the tweet. A short time later, Rich Richardson messaged me on Facebook.

    I find it interesting that Dee Holmes would immediately hear from Rich Richardson, yet Trey Richardson neglected to return any of my five phone calls to his office in which I left messages.

    Clearly, the Richardson clan don’t seem to mind exposure on the internet, but they get very nervous when Dee is picketing in front of their church on a busy road! I understand their concern with Dee’s picketing, but I think they underestimate the effectiveness of the bloggers.

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  26. Muff Potter: How?
    How about the sick and twisted religion they promote and adhere to?
    I’m bettin’ it has a lot to do with it.

    19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

    20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

    21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

    When the heathen listen to their inner guts and it tells them that it’s just plain wrong to hurt a baby and they don’t do it, they are a law unto themselves, and they walk away justified.

    In Judaism, faith and deeds do not have the sharp bifurcation (Greek Platonism derived) found in much of ixtian theology. Thought of in those terms and on that particular curvature, I’m convinced that Judaism makes much more sense than ixtianity.

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  27. Despite the similarities of both Calvinistic denominations being characterized by unaccountability and
    a lack of transparency (to say the very least), they would never, ever merge or have any thoughts to that end. Sovereign Grace is proudly, confessionally charismatic regarding the present usage of miraculous spiritual gifts, while ARBCA is the opposite, proudly and confessionally cessationistic.

    Keep up the great work pursuing Truth and justice!

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  28. Charis:
    Lea,

    “The crazy idea that they have any business forgiving someone *on behalf of someone else* though? They didn’t get that from Jesus.”

    Actually, IMO they believe this is what Jesus was referring to in John 20:23 “If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

    I have often heard John 20 cited in tandem with the concept of the “Keys of the Kingdom” found in Matthew 18:18 “Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

    I will believe that these people actually have this authority only when they figure out how to “pray in Jesus name” and actually have God do what they ask, whatever it may be.

    Until then, my default assumption is that these people are not successors of the apostles and have no spiritual authority in virtue of their “church office” at all.

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  29. Muff Potter… the sharp bifurcation (Greek Platonism derived) found in much of ixtian theology.

    In context, you spake in terms of the “faith vs deeds” bunfight specifically, but there are others (divine sovereignty vs human responsibility is an obvious one!).

    It strikes me that the world view hinted at in the gospel accounts is a vast both/and that was suffocated very early on by the prevailing Platonistic either/or that many early adopters brought in with them. John McZebedee (as he’d be known in Scotland) fought a brave but, ultimately, losing battle against this tide. By the time the canon was completed, it seems that the dominant mindset in christianity had moved on from “if Jesus’ kingdom is not of this world, then what is it like?”, to “what kind of worldly institution should we build?”.

    I don’t have any answer to the question, “what would it be like to be a part of Jesus’ kingdom?”. I don’t think I ever will; I’ve met people who do, but the answers they have are not transferable from one person to another.

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  30. Samuel Conner: I will believe that these people actually have this authority only when they figure out how to “pray in Jesus name” and actually have God do what they ask, whatever it may be.

    I know what you mean – I’m pretty sure I do, anyway! – and I agree. Though I suppose they might theoretically wriggle out of it by saying that they “pray in Jesus’ name” for abusers to be “forgiven” and, magically, they are. They probably pray other stuff too, but that’s different so it doesn’t count. Obviously.

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  31. Nick Bulbeck,

    You get my point “loud and clear”, Nick. It’s sort of like Jesus’ “get up, take your bed, and go home” demonstration.

    The larger point is the question of “which ‘promises’ of the New Testament are applicable to us today, to what extent what we see around us today in the religious universe of self-described christian groups is a valid expression of what Jesus and the apostles started, and to what extent the leaders of these groups should be reckoned to have some sort of “genetic” inheritance of the authority that Jesus and the apostles did possess.

    I’m not optimistic on any of these questions. I often wonder whether the churches today are more or less where Old Israel was around the 2nd century BC; puzzled and perplexed and ready for violent men to break in and “bring the kingdom.”

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  32. Chris Dean: Despite the similarities of both Calvinistic denominations being characterized by unaccountability and
    a lack of transparency (to say the very least), they would never, ever merge or have any thoughts to that end. Sovereign Grace is proudly, confessionally charismatic regarding the present usage of miraculous spiritual gifts, while ARBCA is the opposite, proudly and confessionally cessationistic.

    Remember how bitter enemies Prefect of Judea Pontius Pilate and King Herod Antipas let bygones be bygones and became BFFs in a United Front regarding that Rabbi from Nazareth?

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  33. Samuel Conner: I often wonder whether the churches today are more or less where Old Israel was around the 2nd century BC; puzzled and perplexed and ready for violent men to break in and “bring the kingdom.”

    Remember the Christian role in (and response to) the 2016 elections?

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  34. “It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he was thrown into the sea, than to offend one of these little ones.” (Luke 17:2)

    I don’t understand why Jesus’ warning about harming a child no longer scares the Hell out of some church folks!

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  35. Shannon H.: I actually was using a metaphor and calling the people devils because their deeds are so evil

    Well, I’m of the opinion that in some of these cases, the term “devils” is literally applicable. When you burn a child to force obedience, there is a spirit motivating the flesh which is not holy.

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  36. This makes me beyond angry on so many levels ……. what the Beerys did to the baby ……. the light sentence (slaps on the wrists) …….. the people supporting and pleading for the Beerys, while never mentioning the child ………. the Beerys not admitting that they actually scalded the child ………

    Aaarrrrgggghhhhhh. If I actually did one of any number of things that I would love to do to these people, I guarantee that I would get a much harsher sentence than the Beerys.

    I just don’t understand. Intentionally scalding a baby comes terribly close to attempted murder, in my mind.

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  37. GMFS

    Slightly off-topic, but the fotie at the top of the post isn’t actually real, on two counts:

     The purple heather is actually photoshopped leaves, and
     It’s not the Fairy Pools on Skye, but a river in New Zealand.

    Checking out a google image search of “fairy pools skye” is worth doing, though, for Wartburgers who’ve a spare minute.

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  38. Pingback: Wednesday Connect | Thinking Out Loud

  39. My parents followed the James Dobson ideas of raising children and I learned early that my parents were my enemies. Growing up I never trusted them. To this day I have not a trip of respect for my parents. I believe they were too stupid, evil, childish, and inept to have children or get married.

    It should be obvious to anyone who isn’t a pervert that people who are turned on by Michael and Debi Pearl, James Dobson, and Michael Farris promoted child discipline ideas that all of these people have a pornographic fetish with heaping sadism on babies and children. These people are literally sexually sadistic towards children. It is weird that these people want other people to be sadistic towards any child they have trapped in their lives as well.

    Growing up I was always confused, scared, and had intense despair. What are these kids supposed to do? They depend on stupid evil sadistic monsters. Time last much longer to kids. A day feels like 100 years to them; especially if their days are nothing but pure hell.

    There is a large group of Christians who think; I want to have a trapped human being I can have authority over and discipline. I know, I will get me some kids and make them miserable and wish they had never been born. And I will tell them they are evil and it is Gods will.

    My rescue DOGS have more peace, love, protection, safety, and better lives/days than these children do. That is sad.

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  40. Max: I don’t understand why Jesus’ warning about harming a child no longer scares the Hell out of some church folks!

    Have you noticed these people’s pornographic fetishes with the words, discipline, authority, obey, and submission? The hate with a bloody passion any woman or child’s right to tell them “NO” or right to escape them.

    I grew up in the conservative homeschooling movement and when I read stories about what Ariel Castro one and Phillip Garrido arranged for themselves it literally reminds me of Christian preferences.

    The atheist I know actually hate for people and children to have physical and emotional pain. Most church-going Christians I know love for women and children to have physical and emotional pain.

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  41. ___

    “The Evilution Of A Religious Cult, Perhaps?”

    hmmm…

    Intro:

    Overture:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x1BpKIb7Ces

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gbvy2R0LLrc

    *

    IN THE BEGINNING…

    The TAG (c. 1973) ministry in Washington D. C. was led by Evangelist Larry Tomczak and C.J. Mahaney.

    Fast forward…

    Their primary concern after four years experience of leading TAG (Take&Give) meetings was the lack of accountability they saw in attendant individuals there.

    huh?

    Take and Give” (TAG) (1973-1979) (then became Gathering Of Believers (GOB) – 55 charter members (1977) which became Covenant Life Church, Gaithersburg, Maryland (1982), which became People Of Destiny (a group of churches), which became People Of Destiny International, which became Sovereign Grace Miniseries (2003), which became Sovereign Grace Churches (2014).

    Intermission:
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=enuOArEfqGo

    What?

    ‘Apostolic’ Authority Plus Scripture Became Undeniable ‘Apostolic’ Force?

    Hold on to your bibles…

    A vision for Christian biblical accountability soon became control, control gave way to isolation, isolation gave way to fear, intimidation, and manipulation, manipulation gave way to serious abuse of its members. Abuse gave way to a documented history of unfavorable newscasts, news reports, prosecution and criminal conviction…

    (A record they desperately wish to erase)

    SKREEEEEEEEEETCH!

    A clear short definition of a religious cult if I ever saw one…

    It is to this day.

    The church names have been changed to protect the guilty from brand disparity and blatant discrepancies…

    Mahaney strapping on Calvinism in the 90’s only made it the perfect religious storm…

    Beware!

    *

    “I have been talking about this web of tyranny now for the last six years…I have identified what I believe are the five fundamental pillars of this tyranny. It doesn’t matter what the ultimate end game is, all tyrannies have these five sub-categories or arguments: Dictated Good, Universal Guilt, Abolition of Ambition, Collective Conformity, and Incompetent Masses. The function of all these sub-categories is designed to create “Utopia,” or an alternate reality…

    All people act logically from their assumptions. It does not matter how inconsistent the ideas or insane the rationale. They will act until that logic is fulfilled. Therefore, when you see masses of people taking the same destructive actions, if you find the assumptions, you will find the cause.

    Intermission:
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H42q3j55wKQ

    This group of churches want you to feel helpless in the face of reality. If you are helpless in the face of your own reality, you will be willing to embrace theirs.

    These churches want to inspire you to withdraw and escape. These churches want you to feel hopeless so that you will beg them to make a new reality. Their doctrines are designed to make you hold yourself in the highest suspicion.

    Take their doctrine(s) seriously and it will so erode your ability to make a decision that it will render you impotent.

    Over time, it will erode your commitment to your own capacity and your own achievements to the point where you become functionally useless at whatever you do best. You end up losing respect for your own existence.

    This is what opens you up for such profound exploitation.

    Once they have you doubting your own existence there are no longer any personal boundaries. People can do whatever they want to you. What objection can you make? What objection WILL you make since you don’t value yourself to draw a boundary? How can you expect moral action out of anybody else?

    This sets up a standard at these churches that everybody can use you for whatever purpose, and at any point that you object, you must be the sinner; you must be the problem…” – John Immel

    *

    “Every year dedicated Christian people leave churches because of spiritual abuse [this is epidemic in our day]. What factors contribute to dedicated and active believers in Christ leaving their churches and becoming exiting statistics? The stories of people who left their home church because of a negative and hurtful experience [more often they are shown the front door] paint a picture of a widespread occurrence, which beckons consideration by church leaders and church congregants alike.” -Barb Orlowski, D.Min, and author of  ChurchExiters.com

    *

    “Blogs made it possible for people to compare notes and connect dots. Suddenly, the pixelated events result into high definition and the picture shows a breathtaking consistency. The stories contain striking uniformity in pastoral conversations and actions. They contain profound similarities in the emotional, spiritual, and psychological pain of those who have suffered. That set me to thinking. How was it possible that from state to state, even country to country, people could recount similar life events with stunningly consistent conversations, outcomes, and backlash? What ideas could produce such underlying fear, anxiety, and spiritual frustration?  What ironclad logic could cause masses of people to act out similar conduct that produces such invasive outcomes?

    What thoughts that lurk under the titles of authority would lead average men to believe they wield unchecked control over people’s lives?

    How could a denomination reproduce such unswerving reproducibility?” -John Immel

    ATB

    Sòpy
    ___
    Exit music:
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PMf2mlHlwAA&t=0s&list=PLQMOgYYmTgo8E7EqxJ2CUnMVxz_Sb0HRO&index=50

    *

    Notes:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_Grace_Churches
    http://www.sovereigngrace.com/
    http://www.sovereigngrace.com/our-churches
    https://www.sovereigngrace.com/about-us
    https://sgcapex.org/who-we-are/our-doctrine
    http://www.covlife.org/

    https://s3.amazonaws.com/churchplantmedia-cms/sovereign_grace_churches/book-of-church-order-edition-no-7.pdf

    Further reading:
    https://www.amazon.com/Blight-Vineyard-Exposing-Emotional-Spiritual-ebook/dp/B0077D72FY/ref=sr_1_1/134-7872993-2363210?ie=UTF8&qid=1540388545&sr=8-1&keywords=Blight+in+the+vineyard

    https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Kingdom+of+cults

    ;~)

    – –

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  42. Guest: A day feels like 100 years to them; especially if their days are nothing but pure hell.

    A vivid snapshot of child abuse. There will be a payday someday for parents, church leaders, and others who harm children.

    “Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these, you did it to me.” (Matthew 25:40)

    “Then I shall tell them plainly, ‘I have never known you. Go away from me, you have worked on the side of evil!’” (Matthew 7:23)

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  43. ION: Wildlife

    Speaking of pigeons (which I was, even if no other Wartburgers were), check out the following FaceTube clip:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch some cute cartoon pigeons

    … in which two cartoon pigeons discuss whether “Ecclefechan” is, or is not, a real place.

    SPOILER ALERT

















    Ecclefechan IS a real place.



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  44. Ugh.

    Check out this from a Yavapai (Southern Baptist) Baptist Association newsletter from several years ago:

    (last page advertises a ‘nouthetics’ conference featuring guys from SGM and ARBCA):

    http://www.yavbaptists.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/march2013newsletterpdf.pdf

    “Trey Richardson has been a pastor at Sovereign Grace Church in Gilbert, Arizona since 1989. Biblical counseling is one of his many church responsibilities. Trey has received counseling training at BCTC of Arizona and is currently pursuing NANC certification.”

    “Joe Godal is a graduate of Reformed Episcopal Seminary. Joe taught at Redeemer Theological Seminary, served as pastor at several churches in Arizona, Pennsylvania, and Maryland, and SERVED AS THE STATE CHAIRMAN OF ARIZONA FOSTER CARE REVIEW BOARD. He is a BCTC certified counselor and is pursuing NANC certification.”

    “John Giarrizzo is the founding pastor of Grace Covenant Church in Gilbert, Arizona where he has faithfully served since 1985. He is a graduate of Redeemer Theological Seminary and has received a Master of Divinity degree from PHOENIX SEMINARY.”

    [Apparently Godal is one of the elders who’ve recently jumped off John Giarrizo’s sinking ship at Grace Covenant Church?]

    [Phoenix Seminary is Wayne Grudem’s outfit]

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  45. Guest: My rescue DOGS have more peace, love, protection, safety, and better lives/days than these children do. That is sad.

    I know exactly of what you speak. Mrs. Muff and me have two little rescued dogs that we love dearly. Have you read what Dobson did to his little Dachshund?
    It’s not just reformed fundagelicals who practice a sick and twisted religion.
    Here’s a link:

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/barbara-falconer-newhall/james-dobson-beat-your-do_b_5953878.html

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  46. Ken A: It appears he has fallen off the face of the earth.

    Well, it’s not possible to fall off the face of the earth, but he might have fallen off the edge, because it’s flat. So true.

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  47. Sòpwith,

    That’s quite a summary.

    I would say to anyone who claims “apostolic authority”: “prove that Jesus’ promises to the apostles apply you to by praying to the Father in Jesus’ name and having the Father do what you ask. There are numerous people admitted to your local hospital who would deeply appreciate a pastoral visit of this kind.”

    But they can’t. I conclude that they don’t have authority, either.

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  48. Muff Potter: I know exactly of what you speak. Mrs. Muff and me have two little rescued dogs that we love dearly. Have you read what Dobson did to his little Dachshund?

    OMG, I had no idea Dobson was this bad! Yes, dogs need a ‘pack leader’, but this behavior was WAY over the top and disgusting!

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  49. I worked in preschool for many years. It was quite apparent to me that most parents really take everything their kids did as a personal affront. Most of the time, they were just being human beings.

    I have heard some parents say they don’t discipline in anger, but I even saw that was a lie with my own parents. These parents who believe in harsh discipline often don’t want the harnessed job of actually teaching their own kids and they care more about whether their kid embarrasses them than the child learning the right thing.

    I also agree with Guest that some of these Christian discipline people have sexual fetishes. I definitely think that’s the case with Michael Pearl. He writes some really disturbing stuff.

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  50. I cannot fathom how someone could immerse a child’s bare bottom in scalding water, and then hold that child as she screamed in agony…unless the child was left screaming on the floor or in her crib. It’s a depth of evil that I don’t understand

    Twenty years ago I had to report a child abuse case where the father picked up his toddler daughter by holding onto her ears as she screamed. It was awful, but this seems worse, and as the child grows up , she will have a reminder of her ordeal because of her scars.

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  51. Ken A: What ever happened to CJ Mahaney? It appears he has fallen off the face of the earth.

    Well, it would be wisdom for him to be quiet for a while … but no one has accused him of being wise. It’s football season; he is probably in his man cave, immersed in college and pro games.

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  52. readingalong: I had no idea Dobson was this bad! Yes, dogs need a ‘pack leader’…

    You’re undoubtedly familiar with The Dog Whisperer (sometimes known as Cesar Millan, but I think his real name is Thedog Whisperer), who has repeatedly demonstrated that a true pack leader never needs to use violence to control the pack. As a certain former UK Prime Minister once said: if you have to say you’re strong, you’re not. If the account of the dachshund was even remotely accurate, the human involved was a complete failure as a pack leader.

    He could “lead” a 12-lb dachshund, but let’s see him “lead” a 120-lb rottweiler. Or consider this from Wikipedia:

    In regards to Dobermanns attacking owners, it is rare and usually in the case of overdiscipline. Dobermanns accept physical punishment to an extent. However, when they consider it to no longer be punishment, but an attack on themselves, they will defend themselves.

    Dobson apparently claimed that his attempts to beat his small Dachshund was the most ferocious struggle ever seen between man and beast… it would be comical if it weren’t so disgusting.

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  53. Muff Potter: Have you read what Dobson did to his little Dachshund?

    Makes sense. In his book “Dare to Discipline”, he encourages parents to use corporal punishment to discipline their children. Any man that would beat his little dog with a belt wouldn’t have trouble whopping a child with it. You’ve got to keep all the critters under your control in line, you know.

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  54. Max: Makes sense.In his book “Dare to Discipline”, he encourages parents to use corporal punishment to discipline their children.Any man that would beat his little dog with a belt wouldn’t have trouble whopping a child with it.You’ve got to keep all the critters under your control in line, you know.

    Looking back on his first Christianese bestseller The Strong Willed Child and his sermons on Focus on the Family radio show, it’s obvious that even back then Dobson was looking at childrearing in the context of Power Struggle.

    In Power Struggle, there are only two possible rest states: Hold the Whip or Feel the Whip.
    And the only way to prevent the latter is to make sure of the former. By any means necessary.

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  55. Max: Well, it would be wisdom for him to be quiet for a while … but no one has accused him of being wise.It’s football season; he is probably in his man cave, immersed in college and pro games.

    Don’t forget his Fantasy Football League.
    (AKA NFL Team Owner/Manager: The Role-Playing Game.)

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  56. Nick Bulbeck: As a certain former UK Prime Minister once said: if you have to say you’re strong, you’re not.

    In the Seventies pop psych paperback “Games People Play” (companion to the bestseller “I’m OK, You’re OK”), there’s a mind game called “Tough Guy”. It refers to a weak man trying to show How Tough He Is by bragging and hanging out with REAL Tough Guys (like Navy SEALs or criminal gangs).

    Example: Tabaqui the Jackal rubbing up against Shere Khan so the Tiger’s scent will rub off on him.

    Example: John Piper bragging how “We Broke a Guy’s Neck!” in football.

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  57. Headless Unicorn Guy: Just like that Great White Hunter MoG needs to go after a Cape Buffalo alone and on foot.

    And armed only with the scriptures.

    (It’s said are no atheists in the trenches. Likewise, I bet naebdy believes scripture is sufficient when faced with an animal even lions think twice about.)

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  58. Todd Wilhelm,

    As a member of Sov Grace Gilbert, I saw Dee picketing in front of our church several times, and once introduced myself. I’m not aware of any nervousness or concern with her picketing. She’s not only welcome, but I am happy to serve her with water, etc, and both recognize and defend her right and her sincerity on picketing our church. I don’t speak for the church, but so far as I know none are ‘nervous’ about her picketing. Dee, you are never discouraged from this. Test me.

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  59. Ishy: It was quite apparent to me that most parents really take everything their kids did as a personal affront.

    I absolutely have seen this at times and it’s so sad.

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  60. Ishy: I worked in preschool for many years. It was quite apparent to me that most parents really take everything their kids did as a personal affront. Most of the time, they were just being human beings.

    Well, my son’s language is course at times; and I’m f****d if I know where he gets that from.

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  61. Nick Bulbeck,

    Just to be clear, since this sub-topic isn’t entirely a laughing matter, I meant that a lot of what our preschool weans do is a reflection of what they see us doing. That’s probably why people find it an affront…

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  62. Chris Dean,

    They are not as charismatic as they used to be. CJ put a lid on that when he became BFFs with moiler and Dever. He removed the prophesy mic, stopped calling himself the *Head Apostle,* etc. It’s called chameleon theology. CJ would drop charismatic stuff in a heartbeat to appear more successful.

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  63. Guest,

    Let me add to the mix. Caught up in Dobson’s web were also well-meaning people raised in toxic families who didn’t have a clue how to deal with others in a “safe” and healthy manner. Dobson and his ilk offered boundaries and guidelines.

    I (me, personally) was afraid to spank my kids because I was afraid I’d hurt them physically, so I had that guilt of “not following God’s way” heaped on top of the feelings of failure from seeing the other families in the church with their perfect, smiling children. It took a long time, and was mainly after we left, to realize that the smiles were fake, that I’d gone from a chaotic toxic background to a rigid one.

    We got out, but we never belonged in the first place and we’re treated like camp-followers for the most part. Nowadays I’m glad we never belonged.

    I chose the wrong mentors. Some of us weren’t (aren’t) sexual sadists, but we were also too naive and too trusting and too conditioned to follow authority. But I fully agree that christianity is a perfect breeding ground and sanctuary (ironic word) for abuse and dysfunction.

    That poor baby’s injuries ring a bell. It sounds to me as if the explanation (spanked because she wouldn’t come when called) is another lie. That crowd (I read Dobson, the Pearls, the Ezzos, and Fugate, to name a few, though I “failed” at applying their principles because I was too “weak”—they might have said that according to biblical principles, I “hated” my children like the man who spares the rod and doesn’t beat his children) like to have the “consequences” fit the disobedience. Scalding a child’s buttocks in a too-hot bath sounds like consequences from potty training. Yes, 16-18 months is WAY too young for that, but I seem to remember from the community we used to belong to that there was a discussion of “early” potty training.

    I don’t remember the details. It wasn’t something I was organized enough to try (it took a lot of time organization to achieve), and I was “tainted” by the secular psychology I’d studied and was unable to completely leave behind under their cultic mind-control assault.

    So that explanation makes much more sense to me, horrific as it is.

    I’m so sorry for the pain your parents inflicted.

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  64. refugee,

    p.s. no wonder that poor baby screamed at diaper changes after getting out of the hospital, if my suspicion about toxic “potty training” is true. Having her diaper checked by an adult figure and having a dirty diaper would have led to punishment, not the simple comfort of being clean and dry that a diaper change is *supposed* to bring. If I’m right, the poor baby was anticipating torment because she didn’t know a healthy adult would never do what she’d been subjected to.

    Conjecture on my part, but the explanation fits the evidence reported.

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  65. Guest,

    You bring up another point that rings a bell in my memory. In their child-raising teachings, there is a strong flavor of “us-versus-them” that overlays everything. Not only is it “us-versus-them” between these “christians” and the “world” (i.e. anyone not in lockstep with the group and under submission to the authority figures), but they place enmity between parents and children. They are taught to regard children as “little sinners” and that if they love their children, they will discipline them (and applying the rod is a literal beating in the teaching).

    So the monsters are right in their element, planted in ground that is fertile for abuse, and others who love their children are taught a twisted method for expressing love.

    So “God is love” as John wrote becomes the description of a monster.

    Parents are taught and drilled to see their children as enemies. It never made sense to me. Thank god. How can you build a loving relationship with someone who’s afraid of you, and for good reason?

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  66. ___

    Smoke And Mirrors: “Those who wish to attend Sovereign Grace Churches, Beware?”

    hmmm…

    “I am asking SGC ( Sovereign Grace Churches formally SGM; Sovereign Grace Ministries) to support their recent claim that I am making “false accusation”, “mischaracterizing” and communicating things that “are not true and have never been true”, and instead show true care for the victims by finally dealing transparently with these concerns.” – Rachael Denhollander
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NeY_7O5BvD4
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v4aekQwKIKs
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OyGiAANA8BU
    Rachael Denhollander at Harvard | Can We Reconcile Justice and Forgiveness?The Veritas Forum3.6K views4 months ago
    Rachael Denhollander: Brandeis School of Law Graduation 2018University of Louisville Brandeis School of Law255 views5 months agoCC

    *

    Reader,

    This group of churches have a extensively documented history of spiritual abuse.

    This group of churches also have a extensively documented list of sexual abuse, and non-reporting, non-disclosure of same.

    You and your children may not be safeguarded from these types of criminal abuse.

    Kind church folk, you have been warned.

    (Sēē your bible and please search the Internet for details) —some details below (1)

    ATB

    Sòpy
    __
    (1) http://thewartburgwatch.com/category/sovereign-grace-ministries/
    http://www.sgmsurvivors.com/the-stories/
    http://www.brentdetwiler.com

    ;~)

    – –

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  67. “Trey Richardson fancies himself to be a professional counselor of sorts”

    Looks like he also fancies himself a judge too!

    His judicial bio here:

    https://www.sovereigngrace.com/court-of-appeals

    “Sovereign Grace Churches > Court of Appeals

    Trey Richardson
    Trey is a pastor at Sovereign Grace Church (Gilbert, AZ). He is married to Charlotte, and they have four children.”

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  68. refugee,

    I heard a father once call in on a radio show and he told the station that when he looks at his new born daughter all he saes is sin.

    Yes. In so much of current Christendom, children are putting on a fake joyous disposition.

    They are really thinking on the inside; I wish I had never been born, I don’t want to go home with my parents, I don’t want to wake up in the morning, I am not looking forward to my future.

    They have to pretend what their parents want to be true is true. My sister and I had to praise homeschool. But, our father never bought us school books, we hated it, we were skipping grades, and going years without any education at all. We were very embarrassed that we were dumber than our younger cousins. We had to pretend that we were pro whippings; when we got whippings for things we did not do and didn’t know anything about.

    It is fake, pretend, repeat things you know isn’t true and do not believe or like. When I encounter an isolated Christian child I always conclude he or she is being terrorized by their parents and everything they say is a lie their parents told them to say.

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  69. Guest: I heard a father once call in on a radio show and he told the station that when he looks at his new born daughter all he saes is sin.

    Worm Theology/Total Depravity 101.

    “MAN SEES A CUTE LITTLE BABY — GOD SEES A TOTALLY DEPRAVED SINNER!!!!!”
    — Radio Preacher I remember from the Seventies

    Still remember that line because of the preacher’s voice — I KNOW I’d heard it somewhere before. He had as similar dialect/regional accent to J Vernon Magee, but was definitely NOT him. Magee didn’t scream every word in-your-face, and this guy did.

    The only other memory I have of that voice and delivery was a Sunday service at a Boy Scout summer camp some 10 years before; I only remember fragments of a fiery sermon in the same voice. And those I remember because of the subject matter: the preacher in that memory sounded totally obsessed with Christ’s Resurrection Body being described as FLESH AND BONE, NOT FLESH AND BLOOD. Like the distinction was of Cosmic Importance.

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  70. Walk-the-line membership contracts, subordination of female believers, strong-arm discipline, narcissistic church leaders, shunning, excommunication, court of appeals … Good Lord! For Sovereign Grace members listening in, you need to put your behind in your past and get the heck out of there! There’s freedom in Christ, but not in your church.

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  71. Todd Wilhelm: He has been de-gifted, Shanked by his guy-pal Mohler.

    Al Mohler’s wife called Together for the Gospel’s “Fab 4” (Mahaney, Mohler, Dever, Duncan) “Al’s little playgroup” (how creepy is that!). I figured those boys had a blood pact to stick Together for Calvinism until the bitter end. It’s hard to believe that Mohler would de-gift and shank Mahaney, but I suppose that potato became too hot to handle even for Mohler.

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  72. I believe the Bible is refers to this as doctrines of demons. Listen, is it really that hard to discern the difference between love and hate? God is love. Hate-violence-cruelty are not of God. They are of the devil. Maybe it’s a synagogue of Satan, or maybe some churches just attract the mentally ill.

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