“But I want more. I want football players to be treated like everybody else, and for the guys at this school to realize that rape culture isn’t something feminists invented so they could have something new to be pissed about, and so many other things I don’t even have words for yet. And most of all, I want to make sure no other girls ever have to go through what any of us had to go through.”― Rachael Allen, The Revenge Playbook
This post is a a bit out of the ordinary for TWW. Normally our blog looks at abuse issues in the church. But, Amy Smith and I heard from some concerned students, asking us to help them get their story out there. As you will see, this is an important story and the students deserve our respect and our help.
I love to learn about wonderful cities and towns throughout the United States and was pleased to learn about Fishers, Indiana. Did you know that it was Money’s Number 1 Best Place to Live in 2017? This lovely suburb of Indianapolis has great jobs, great housing, great shopping, great things to do and a well respected school system. The Hamilton Southeastern school district gets rave reviews. In fact, besides its academics and its football teams, it is consider very safe.
So, why did I receive this text from a female student today while attending classes at Hamilton Southeastern High School?
Last Saturday, Amy Smith of Watch Keep noticed a tweet discussing #notmymrroyal. She wrote Not My Mr. Royal yesterday. We both support these brave young ladies and their parents for speaking out.
According to the IndyStar in Authorities investigating alleged rape involving Hamilton Southeastern High School students
Law enforcement and school officials are investigating an alleged rape involving a student at Hamilton Southeastern High School.
Noblesville Police Department Lt. Bruce Barnes on Monday said a female student reported that she had been raped by a classmate. The incident occurred on Sept. 17 in Noblesville. She reported it on Oct. 5, Barnes said.
The school district responded in that article:
Hamilton Southeastern Schools acknowledged the investigation in a statement.
“We take all information about inappropriate or illegal behavior seriously, and we are looking into the matter at this time along with our partners in law enforcement,” the district said Monday in an email to IndyStar. “The safety and well-being of our students is HSE Schools’ first priority.”
Female students are complaining about an atmosphere of sexual harrasment at the school which makes them feel unsafe.
Amy Smith and I had the opportunity to talk with several female high school students on 1/28/18. In September, 2017, a female student at the school reported a sexual assault by a male student to the police. She received quite a bit of blowback from fellow students and parents. However, she was granted a protective order against the student.
She became concerned that she was not offered protection by the school and was forced to see this fellow student in the halls and classrooms. Students alleged that she was so concerned for her safety that she withdrew from the school, shortly thereafter. These articulate students claimed that this sort of stuff has been going on at the school for a long time. They discussed receiving unwanted texts with nude pictures and other disturbing material and say that the school is well aware of the problem. The same male student was accused of sending a number of these unwanted texts to female students. However, there are also many such texts from other young men at the school as well.
The female students told us that since many of the offenders are members of sports teams like football, the reports are ignored since the football team is *really good.* How really sad.
I reached out to the Office of the HSE Superintendent, asking about the safety measures put in place for the initial student who reported her rape to the police. Here is the response which basically doesn’t say anything except they always do the right thing and they are concerned for the welfare of all students. I am having trouble believing this is true for reasons that you will soon see.
What is this #NotMyMrRoyal all about?
Initially, one might be inclined to believe that the student just didn’t *understand how much the school was helping her* but subsequent actions on the part of teachers and administration at the school put a kibosh on that entire line of reasoning.
Here is the protective order which was successfully served back in October. This protective order was posted by a number of folks under the #NotMyMrRoyal thread.
Let’s review this. The school knew the former student had a protective order against this fellow student. That student withdrew, alleging the lack of support and fears for her personal safety. One would think the school would be quite sensitive to this entire situation. It was this next action on the part of the school that causes me to say that not only do I believe the victim, but I believe the safety concerns of the female students at the school.
Why in the world did the school allow the following event to take place? Be sure, as you read this, to understand that it is the teachers and staff at the school who must vote on Mr Royal.
According to RTV^ in ‘Mr. Royal’ award causes uproar among students, parents at Hamilton Southeastern School
Mr. Royal is a talent competition put on as a fundraiser by Hamilton Southeastern Schools’ National Honor Society. Teachers and staff vote and choose the winner of the competition.
Students in the district have been sharing their concerns over social media with the hashtag #NotMyMrRoyal.
The students explained this coveted award to us. The winner is chosen for his ability to showcase the best that the student body has to offer. The students said they were in shock when the winner was announced. Boos were heard from the crowd as a number of students walked out of the auditorium.
To make matters worse, Mr. Kegley, the principal sent out tweets congratulating Zuber on his accomplishment. Those tweets were quickly removed. Kegley did not respond to my request for comment. I don’t blame him. This was an extraordinary misstep. Has he not heard about #metoo?
Here is a tweet which expressed my concern.
And one from Amy
I was so concerned about what I was seeing and hearing that I made a report made to Detective Cesar Rodriguez of the Fishers, Indiana police force today.
Here is a link to the #NotMyMrRoyal thread. One can see that others are complaining about being sexually harassed by this student as well as other students. Today I received a call from a parent who said that he looked into the allegations and he believes these students. He wants to see the atmosphere at the high school change because he doesn’t want his daughters to be subjected to harassment like this.
Detective Rodriguez was very clear about what he needs in order to officially follow up with these concerns. He needs to have students and/or parents collect evidence of that harassment and to get that to him. For example, one tweet mentioned receiving nude pictures from another student. Please give these to the detective. The sending of nude pictures is considered pornography and if it is made by underage children, it is child pornography. This is a very, very serious offense. Parents, do your students know that they can be arrested for sending such pictures?
Amy Smith and I are willing to help any student and parent who wish to make a report. There is another way that reports can be made through the Center for Missing and Exploited Children and we would be happy to explore that with anyone who asks.
A second criminal complaint against the same male student has just been filed any another student, Victim #2.
In this report from Eyewitness News 13 As investigations continue, HSE students don black in support of sex assault victims.
I have heard from family members involved in filing this second report. We are willing to help the family/student to pursue this or provide support as they walk through this process. Please DM us on Twitter. I believe Victim #2 as well and certainly hope the school will do a better job in supporting her in this process.
“He sexually assaulted my daughter,” said the mother of an HSE student. “He forced her to do sexual activities that she was not comfortable with.”
She is the second HSE parent Eyewitness News is aware of having made a complaint to police against the talent show winner.
Female students wore black to school to express their concerns for their safety and to show support for the victims.
In that same news report:
On Monday, some HSE students showed support for the alleged victims, dressing in black in school hallways and in photos posted on social media.
They’re protesting a school talent show award, “Mr. Royal,” being given to a male student last Thursday even as the student is under investigation for sexual assault.
Did the school or authorities respond to the very real needs of the student who had reported her rape? Was she believed or sidelined?
This exceedingly brave student, whom we shall call Victim #1, and her parents believe that the school did not respond in a supportive matter. It is evident from the family’s testimony that the school did NOT provide an environment in which the victim was made to feel safe. She had to leave the school while the male student had free run of the hallways. He stayed out of school for two days this week but students reported to us that he was present at the school today, walking in the hallways and speaking with other students, including female students.
We have also been told that some students in the choir are trying to have other students write letters of support for the male student. If this is allowed to continue, any hopes for showing victims of sexual abuse that they are cared about will be dashed.
What is even more concerning is the apparent lack of support from various authorities who may have claimed that they couldn’t do anything since there was *no physical evidence* of the rape from Victim #1 What exactly does than mean? Is there a case being made that if a victim doesn’t get immediately to an emergency room, rape cannot be investigated? If so, this will attract the attention from victims’ advocacy groups from across the US.
I have been writing about abuse for almost 9 years and I believe the testimony of the parents and daughter in this instance. I ask the local authorities to dig deeper in this situation and to take these allegation seriously. I believe that this situation is worthy of national attention and will be alerting various media outlets.
According to Eyewitness 13, the police are now investigating this matter. The father of the student said:
“As the victim and as a parent of the victim, it’s just a punch in the gut and slap in the face,” the girl’s father told Eyewitness News on Saturday. “Its completely disrespectful, especially when there is an ongoing criminal investigation and permanent protective order in place. And there are continued allegations of sexual abuse, sexual assault against this individual.”
A standing ovation goes out to the brave and articulate female students who have supported the victim. They show far more empathy and maturity than the school authorities on the matter.
The students with whom I spoke showed wisdom beyond their years. They care about the student who was made to leave the school in order to feel safe. They asked legitimate questions about how the situation was handled and expressed frustration with a school administration which seems to tone deaf to their thoughtfully expressed, legitimate concerns.
I believe that these students deserve the ear of victims’ advocacy groups and will work to make sure that it happens.
The school administration is creating a system in which victims will not feel safe to report abuse.
This is the law of unintended consequences. If a victim is sidelined and the perp is celebrated, what does that say to other victims in that school? I have read enough of the tweets and texts to be concerned that there are potentially very serious, legal issues surrounding sexual harassment via texting, etc.
Detective Rodriguez wants people to bring him evidence of these texts. However, the female students are concerned that they, too, will be blown off by school officials and made to switch schools in order to be safe. This is a dangerous precedent that appears to have been set by school leaders. In other words, if the female students report the harassment, they too may become the victims of an unsupportive administration. That is worrisome.
What are the names of the teachers and school staff who voted for Mr Royal? They should be compelled to give reasons why they believed that this student was the *best of the best.* In other words, teachers and administrators, come out of the closet and own your vote!
I think it would be helpful to know if the teachers were aware of the allegations prior to voting. If yes, then why did they vote the way that they did. If not, then, why not? Are any of the teachers willing to speak off the record?
The students with whom I have spoken have informed me that Mr. Royal is a big deal. The student chosen must exhibit impeccable conduct. If that is so, why was Zuber chosen for this honor?
Could the teachers outline his history of stellar moral conduct that should be modeled by other students? If not, why not? I do believe that the staff at the school owe the students a thoughtful explanation for what appears to be a disaster.
Dumb statement #1: She was drunk.
I do not believe this true but even if it was, consent must be given for sex. Sex cannot be consented to by a person who is underage which is the case for Victim #1. I hope to get the details for Victim #2. I have been told that the age of consent is 16 in Indiana.
Consent cannot be given if the person is under the influence of drugs or alcohol or in incapacitated in any way. Take a look at what happened to Stanford University swimmer Brock Turner who raped a woman who was unconscious due to inebriation and was tried and found guilty. Turner’s once promising future is no longer.
Here is a question for all guys who think this is an excuse. What ever happened to young men who would protect a young woman who was incapacitated?
Young women: young men who use such an excuse should cause you to ask about the character of young men who believe that they should treat a woman as if she was merely a body to be used. You can do far better than those losers.
Dumb statement #2: She was flirting so she wanted it.
Of course young women flirt with cute guys. That is part of being a teenager. Most likely she wants the guy to talk with her and take her out to the movies and maybe invite her to homecoming.
Flirting with a guy does not mean she wants to have a weird, unfulfilling encounter in the back of a cold, dark car with an inexperienced guy who thinks he is God’s gift to teen girls. Message to said guys: you are not that awesome!
Dumb statement #3: These girls should shut up and take like we did.
This is made by older women who had to put up with boorish football players who thought they were owed something by women just because they could catch a ball. Then there were bosses who used their position to hit on women who were afraid of losing their jobs, etc. It was my generation who didn’t have the guts to speak out against sexual harassment. We found excuses to stay silent.
Thankfully, these young women are showing us up. They are using their voices and social media to say #NotMyMrRoyal and #metoo. They are changing the old ways of doing things and all of us should be giving them a standing ovation. May their tribe increase.
One parent said that we must stop giving members of football teams a pass on conduct because we must have a good football team. He said it would be worth losing a few seasons to make a point.
It is time to stand up against sexual harassment. Most everyone gets the #metoo movement. Does the HSE school system? I am deeply concerned that they do not.
I am so proud to have spoken with these outstanding female students. They get it. It is time for the teachers and staff of their high school to do the same. #metoo #NotMyMrRoyal
“But I want more. I want football players to be treated like everybody else, and for the guys at this school to realize that rape culture isn’t something feminists invented so they could have something new to be pissed about, and so many other things I don’t even have words for yet. And most of all, I want to make sure no other girls ever have to go through what any of us had to go through.”― Rachael Allen, The Revenge Playbook
first
I hate to say this, but “nudes” of girls are exchanged like baseball cards in most high schools. Boys make “albums” of the girls from each school. It’s common for nudes of girls to be passed around during class. I am aware of a boy that was trying to get every girl in the school to write his name on their breasts and send him a picture for his collage. It is widespread with hundreds of nudes in each school.
It seems like there is at least one new story brought to light every day now. And each new story involves multiole victims.
We are living in a new era where females are fed up with having to put up with cultural cliches and societal ‘norms’ that put women at risk of being sexually assaulted. Men who think they can get away with mistreating women because of their make privilege need to read the handwriting on the wall. The Good Old Days are coming to an end. It’s time to change your ways! A new day is on the horizon.
I disagree strongly with this statement:
“One parent said that we must stop giving members of football teams a pass on conduct because we must have a good football team. He said it would be worth losing a few seasons to make a point.”
It would be worth ditching the team permanently or being bottom of the league forever if it meant that even one girl wasn’t raped. Let’s value our kids properly.
@ Darlene.:
‘male’ privilege
Dumb statement #4: It was an organic moment.
And people still claim that there is no such thing as rape culture. That it’s a made up concept by females who want attn and want to demigrate males!
Very nice article.
GMFS
Slight tangent here, though within the spirit of the Wartburg community, but things have been very busy at work this week and I’ve fallen a bit behind with events here, for which, apologies. I’m working from home tomorrow, though. Whilst “working” means exactly that, it also means I won’t be spending 4-5 hours travelling to and from Enbruh, and that time will be free to catch up and actually read the above article!
Bravo, Dee and Amy. I’ve been followng this on Twitter. My kids have been out of hgh school for at least ten years now. Their district in CA was considered among the best in the nation. They received numerous Blue Ribbon School Awards. There is currently a case involving the rape of a female student by members of the nationally recognised Wrestling team. I had to encounter this district once about something academic pertaining to my son. It is a well oiled machine. You just don’t oppose them without feeling the sting. In the end we know that accolades and a great athletic department is their aim. They will protect their image at the expense of the students who shine a light on their dark underbelly.
It is beyond amazing that this rapist was awarded such a title by the principal and teachers in an Honor Society fundraising contest. This world has gone mad! None of it makes any sense. All of these individuals should lose their jobs. They are not in any way protecting their students.
So i applaud these young women. They are strong. We must continue to listen to victims, to believe them, and to seek justice.
You know when I worked in the state facility sexual assault was a constant concern. I have personally intervened in several attempted sexual assaults between client and client and one time a client had a staff member pinned down and was ripping off her top. I got there after hearing the scream and running up the stairs he was on top of her right next to the nurse’s station all the staff and clients but those two were at dinner. He was much stronger than I was but I use to be able to take a good punch, kick, bit, headbutt etc. I’m sort of paying for that now but what the heck. It was reported the police came and the offending client was taken to a more secure facility. New training was offered and in every circumstance, full vetting was pursued from what I observed.
On a personal note, I also intervened in some domestic issues, it still effects me. She was my sister what else should I have done. So many decades later it still affects me, it should not but it does. From the faith community, not once was there any comfort offered, ever. It still breaks my heart. I am posting this using my vailed anon nic.
May I ask a question about sexual assault/abuse if a young teen male is tied up and stripped and mocked several times, not including the being locked in closets lockers etc. Would you consider that abuse? I have never asked/shared that ever before.
incognito wrote:
Absolutely! That sort of bullying is definitely abuse and, yes, there is a strong sexual element.
@ Nick Bulbeck:
Wow! That’s a lot of commuting, Nick.
Miss your comments, but glad you have a job.
I am so sorry that these young girls have had to deal with such an abusive pest and that the school has compounded the problem instead of supporting them. I wish the girls courage and strength.
There seems to be an increasing global awareness (Good morning from South Africa!)as a link to this article appeared on a group for parenting teenagers this morning. I share here as I think readers will find it relevant: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/02/well/family/teenagers-stop-asking-for-nude-photos.html
I think this quote from the end of the article rings true.
“That our focus has been so preponderantly on the sending, not requesting, of sexts underscores the exact problem we need to address. We accept and perpetuate the boys-play-offense and girls-play-defense framework because it is so atmospheric as to be almost invisible. Indeed, as someone who cares for adolescents for a living I can say that it was painful for me to realize that many of my early career conversations with teenage girls boiled down to: “The adults are asking you to regulate adolescent sexuality. Because we’re not going to ask the boys.””
@ Nick Bulbeck:
Hello Nick! Hope the job is going well and that you still have time to play Rachmaninov.
Forrest wrote:
Ok sharing even more. My family was driving in our car and me and other family member were driving in the car when I brought up one event up with my mom sitting in the passenger side front seat. The hurt on her face and anger not at me but at the situation made me not push so much and after a few minutes it sort of just went away. A lot of that went on. In a similar situation, the same particular person shot me in the back of the head with a pump pellet/bb gun in the back of the head, knocked me out cold, dug it out of my skull with a small knife if I am remembering correctly. I must be honest I do not know how accurate this rendition is so many vague memories and so much emotion over so many years makes it hard to remember with total and absolute clarity. Something people in the faith required. There can be no variation what so ever in even a very small detail otherwise you are making it up.
Let me ask a question, what do I gain by making this up, nothing, I am totally ashamed, almost on a daily basis, I should have been stronger. The other pathetic, and it is pathetic, the reason I love this person and he “reformed” his life and did well. Taking a few hits for someone I love is no big deal, which is why I dont name names etc. It would serve no purpose. I just needed to vent. My main point believes people who come forward, of course there is confusion and conflicting reports. This is not science it is raw hurt. This is why I am sharing this, believe these young people coming forward.
Thank you. Reading this at 4:30 a.m. before I have to be surrounded by this again and I’m just grateful that you and Amy are helping. As Victim #1 said on Friday, we didn’t have a voice for months and now it feels like people believe her. Rape culture needs to end and I am so proud of all of these girls for their part in this.
incognito wrote:
Yes, absolutely. It is demeaning, scary, and sexually abusive.
hi, as one of the students who’s done some digging i have found out that the teachers who voted didn’t know. there are a few who are devestated by the news. the administration however were the ones who knew.
A few Years back, in Stuebensville, Ohio, everyone who was anyonei important was involved in protecting rapist football players even though the players posted pics of their abuse! from judges, principals, lawyers, prominent citizens, reporters, etc, etc. the world doesn’t always handle justice well.
A striking aspect of the victim statements in the Nassar trial started me. Nassar often abused the girls and women while the parents were in the room. The parent(s) did not recognize the abuse and even when the daughter complained her concern was dismissed. This article may show a reason why this happens.
http://jimmyhinton.org/why-sexual-abuse-goes-unnoticed/
A quote about the Nassar case: “So why did hundreds, if not thousands, of adults fail these children, including their own parents who were in the same room as they were penetrated? While there certainly were some adults who didn’t care, we cannot assume that the majority of them just didn’t care. We’ve got to stop assuming that all adults don’t care and instead look at the techniques abusers use to keep us blind.”
@ raswhiting:
Excellent link! Explains much.
@ raswhiting:
“One only sees what one looks for. One only looks for what one knows.”
― Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
raswhiting wrote:
The last time I was assaulted, it was by someone who visibly harassed and made advances at almost every woman he saw. And people still said I overreacted or imagined it. I know they saw the way he acted. So people have this sort of denial even if someone isn’t hiding their sexual abuse of others. I think we probably need interventions to examine techniques of abusers and consider how and why people deny such things.
null wrote:
Thank you, null, for clearing that up. I hope that since the information has been made public that the entire outcome of the contest be dismssed. That the administration knew is despicable. It angers me deeply.
@ okrapod:
And why do people not ‘know’? Why do people not recognize what they see?
I am planning to get and read the book that is recommended in the link about the methods of the abusers who rely on the fact that people look right at something and do not see it for what it is.
At the same time I have some ideas also. I think there is a factor in play that people do not ‘know’ because they do not want to know. Analogy: people who do not ‘see’ in scripture stuff that looks crystal clear to the majority of other believers. Another analogy: people who think that every conspiracy theory is evidence that the idea of conspiracy itself is somehow just nuts when all the while the press is telling us that DC is eaten up with actual conspiracies under investigation; they just don’t seem to ‘see’ it somehow. Here is an analogy from fairly recent socio-medical attitudes: cigarettes are not really all that bad because granddad smoked from age 5 to age 95 and only died when he fell off the tractor; so cigs can’t be a real problem for people, never min the actual evidence. And even more recently: HPV is not ‘causal’ in throat cancer; must be evangelicals trying to pull one for religious reasons.
And on and on and on. In our family we missed how severe student on student bullying was on one of the kids, even while we looked right at it. And what did we not want to see? We did not want to think that one of our kids was not able to simply smash some other kid’s face in the concrete out on the playground to make it stop; we are aggressive people so surely she could do that. Nope. Not. Never again!! The thing was that we did not want it to be a problem requiring drastic steps. Again I say, please God, never again let me be so wrong.
Ok I just gotta ask this….not defending any kind of sexual abuse but if teen boys are digitally sharing nudes of the girls . ..what the heck are the girls up too??????
@ Abigail:
That is a legitimate question which needs consideration. IMO some of them are doing what the see on their electronic devices, what perhaps their mama is doing (!?), and they are doing anything but anything to ‘belong’ in a culture that has lost its mind.
okrapod wrote:
This is in fact what they are doing. If the other girl did it, and I am also interested in the boy, I need to do it too. Boy swears he will keep private. Next day, six boys have the photo and they could care less what they do with it. It happens all the time.
Adults have not helped. They send them and then sue when someone hacks their account. I fail to understand the need to send them in the first place. I actually understand (don’t agree with) kids doing it more than I can fathom supposedly mature adults doing it.
@ Bridget:
Let me add, a nude picture also does not give permission for rape.
Teachers can be the worst about popularity contest/voting stuff.
I was what I guess would now be called ‘bullied’ in junior high one year, and the boy who was the worst about it got a good conduct award, giving along with a glowing speech by one of the teachers I had talked to about it.
This is worse, though. Shame on them.
@ Mercy:
Lawsuits.Here it’s all about protecting the district from more lawsuits. (They always pay out and most don’t even make the news. There are lawyers here who makes living off the school district)
That’s why they have all the “trappings” of dealing with bullying (hotline, PR campaign) but actually end up protecting the bullies with their process. They always put the victim in the same room with the bully and do a conflict resolution process. Bully’s exceed at this! And they do this because The bully’s parents are the ones who sue!
yentl wrote:
It is time for these students to stand up and have a voice. They can change their culture.
Darlene. wrote:
I believe that we are on the cusp of change in this area.
Mercy wrote:
Frankly, I believe the principal should resign. He allowed this and congratulated the winner. He is a problem.
@ incognito:
Thank you for bravely intervening. You are a hero in my book.
incognito wrote:
This is the basic reason why I believe victims of rape. Why put yourself through abuse a second time-having to recount one’s ordeal to a skeptical authority.
Mari Shingleton wrote:
We do. We believe her and something needs to be done at that school./ Shame on the teachers and principal.
null wrote:
Thank you for this information. Is there any way a teacher might be willing to make a statement? I will keep their identity a secret.
Teachers: please, someone tell is what happened.
Abigail wrote:
Actually, if you look at the #NotMyMrRoyal thread, the nude pictures being shared are of the boys’ anatomy.
okrapod wrote:
The nude pics are of the boys’ anatomy. Girls are receiving these on their phones.
Lea wrote:
Bullying is a horrendous as well and can have life long implications. Suicides have occurred over this.
dee wrote:
I had a child that was bullied. Child received text messages before school one day that were awful. I went with child to campus that day. Hunted down the principal, showed him the texts, the sender was brought into office immediately. Resolved, although I still would have done some things differently. I don’t believe the principal ever told offenders parents . . .
raswhiting wrote:
Great website. Often wondered about those with the microphone in churches, why they don’t speak out. WWJD – wouldn’t/didn’t Jesus speak out on behalf of those vulnerable? Why not use power to speak truth among God’s people?
dee wrote:
This was brought up quite a bit during the Nassar court proceedings.
Lydia wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uSn4L9HVik 20 20 Steubenville After the Party’s Over
dee wrote:
Oh good grief. How childish. I need to start reading the links more. Sorry I missed that.
dee wrote:
“MINE’S BIGGER THAN YOURS!”
(And to targeted girls) “SEE WHAT I’VE GOT? DON’T YOU JUST WANT IT?”
dee wrote:
Did the Principal come up through the ranks of Football Coaches, or is that career path for Vice-Principals only?
dee wrote:
Then expect Pushback like the 2016 elections.
Especially from Christians(TM).
incognito wrote:
The shame is not yours. The one who abused you should be ashamed. If the “reformed” part of his life doesn’t include a personal admission of guilt and heartfelt apology to you regarding what he did when you were younger, then the abuse and responsibility for it is being ignored (by him).
Personally, I think humiliating abuse is the most harmful when it comes from someone who ought to care about us, be on our side or someone we look up to. Instead, when they humiliate and mock us, it is so devastating. If this is a relative, have you thought of addressing this with him? There is a risk to that of course, that he hasn’t really changed and would deny it or say it wasn’t a big deal. Unfortunately, we are sometimes close to or related to people who are a bit sadistic and have no natural feelings of compassion or loyalty to others (experienced this myself).
Lydia wrote:
My father wanted me to become a lawyer.
His reasoning? “That’s where the Money is.”
Bridget wrote:
But sending it around Social Media(TM) is still a dumb move.
Mostly because the Internet is Forever, and it can surface to haunt you 10-20 years down the road.
Partially because there’s going to be some boys/guys thinking with the wrong head who WILL read it as “permission for rape – She’s Asking For It!”
Bridget wrote:
“LOOK BEAVIS! I SCOOOORED! HEH-HUH! HEH-HUH! HEH-HUH!”
(Remember “thinking with the wrong head”?
So, is “Mr. Royal” the son of an important businessman in Fishers, Indiana? … his family a big benefactor to the school system … relatives involved in local/State politics? … from the upper crust movers & shakers in the city?
Small towns have a way of sweeping the sins of their prominent citizens under the rug.
incognito wrote:
Yes. We have a high school in the East Valley of Phoenix (Hamilton High, Chandler) where hazing and sexual assault are being investigated. Some of the young men were terrified to go in the varsity locker room.
dee wrote:
In My Little Pony fandom, there’s the tragedy of Michael Morones, four years ago this week:
https://heavy.com/news/2014/02/my-little-pony-fan-bullied-michael-morones/
Also go to http://www.equestriadaily.com (clearinghouse site for Brony news and art) and search on “michael morones” for the fandom’s coverage.
Muslin fka Deana Holmes wrote:
Kinda like the showers in a prison?
Max wrote:
On the other hand, if Mr. Royal’s only claim to fame is that he is a high school football star, it makes the sad situation even sicker. It is a royal mistake to support an abuser over the cries of those he has abused. Being a high school football star shouldn’t earn you honors you don’t deserve; when your character is not truly a display of impeccable conduct, your school shouldn’t recognize you in that way.
JYJames wrote:
“I Got Mine,
I Got Mine,
I DON’T WANT A THING TO CHANGE
NOW THAT I GOT MINE!”
— Glenn Frye
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
My father wanted me to be a lawyer also. He was seeing so many widows who did not even know how to write a check much less solve anything else, and they were showing up in their office. Dad thought that an opening was going to happen for women lawyers in that particular area of work, and that a good living could be made doing it. He never reconciled to my choice of health care.
Now that is purely pitiful. It is pitiful about the widows who could not function and pitiful because the only future he seemed to see for women in law was related to other women’s problems, and it is pitiful that he had a rather capable girl child who had other plans of which he happened to disapprove.
I have yet to find the biblical reference, however, where it says that life should not be awkward and difficult to put it mildly.
@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
And judges who won’t throw out frivolous suits
Max wrote:
But completely plausible.
FOOTBALL is a Fundamentalist Religion in high school.
@ JYJames:
That story shocked me to the core. If I remember correctly, one nobody lady took up the cause and ended up having to move away. One had best be well heeled before they take these things on. People get ruined over it.
JYJames wrote:
“Organic” as in misspelling of “Orgasmic”?
okrapod wrote:
It has only been in the last 50-100 years by virtue of technology and increased production that the role of women in society has changed. If you look back through human history where women had the primary role of raising children, this is a massive change. Couple this with the sexual revolution of the last fifty years where sex was promoted as a form of recreation and decoupled from a committed relationship and responsibility, then saturate that environment with sexual imagery, and we get our present situation.
Overlay this sea change in in our relationships with the rise of identity politics that can breed resentments and then tribalism on any side that mocks and vilifies dissenting voices and yes, it descends further into madness. Into this melee we always have the bullies who take what the want by force, in this case sex.
I’m not promoting that we go back to the fifties, I don’t know if things then were as good or as bad as many say, we are where we are. There are a lot of differing views now on what is wrong none of have a corner on the truth. Since TWW has branched out from the maladies of the church to society in general I tread here with much trepidation. TWW steers clear of politics but I can’t think of a subject that I’ve seen more heated “discussion”. I take it as truth we can’t perfect humans or society but we can start to listen to voices that differ from ours, understand them and maybe incorporate them, it will make a good start.
Abigail wrote:
My daughter was asked for nude pictures from male classmates before 8th grade even started, and thinks all the friends she knows have been asked, too. One of her friends (even though they are warned many times at school and hopefully at home) did send a nude picture to a guy she thought was her “boyfriend”, and it was only a day or two before the picture ended up all over the school, all too common.
When we found out and talked to the parents of the boy who asked it of our daughter(because our daughter tried to get him “back” for asking and got caught and had to clean up the mess she made!), their first reaction was, “Oh, he would never do that!” When they finally realized he did, he lost phone for a short time, then went back to asking for nude pictures from other girls, just not from ours. It’s definitely epidemic!
At the school where RE teaches they put out a requirement that all the teachers were required to have an account with a certain social media service. This of course put the teachers at risk. RE graciously and winsomely replied that !@#$% no to the nth and you can’t make me. The school wisely accepted that humble reply and nothing came of it.
I really dislike the way that people have to do any more to just survive on the job or at school or even at church.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
I thought that was only in Texas! 🙂
Thersites wrote:
I graduated from high school in 1952. Compared to now some of then was better and some of then was worse. SBC was better and especially far better for women. Taking one’s car in for service was awful for women back then and much better now. But does it matter all that much; because like you say we are where we are.
@ okrapod:
You and me both. That’s my business. The workplace has become a minefield. I have watched it change drastically since the early 90’s.
___
“Raging Bull, Or Raging Hormones Or Perhaps Some Other, Perhaps?”
hmmm…
Q. Are Parents Informing Their Minor Daughters, What Might Possibly Be In Store For Them As They Attend Public High School, With Many Of Both Minor Sexes Having Unrestricted Internet Access?
huh?
FYI: It is well known Wartburg Watch, that female freshman public high school students face the greatest risk among male public high school students for unsolicited, unprotected sexual activity.
What?
District school properties are now frequently being utilized for this type of activity, and has been documented for many years.
SKreeeeeeeeeetch!
Some parents are now being requested in many public high schools, to confine their minor children’s sexual activity to off property.
(I kid you not)
In addition, apparently, sexual activity incidents among minors are increasing on 501(c)3 properties as well.
Morality-free internet metadata and content traffic now being aimed at children?
hmmm…
Forget the rock band ‘Sovage Grace’
, Mulit-Media subduction is now quite high…(and has been for sometime) (1)
Buyer Beware!
(Sadface)
Sòpy
—-
[Parental discretion is advised]
(1)https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pL4uESRCnv8 (and this is perhaps an old mild rock sampling…) notice the audience. [not the ‘Savage Grace’ rock band]
🙁
– –
@ Thersites:
Prof Victor Davis Hanson has an interview on YouTube called the New Dark Ages. He compares college at UC in the 70’s to now. Interesting.
Between this and the savage thing, there seems to be a weird conflating of flirting with seduction. Not the same thing. At all.
dee wrote:
I’m sure it can, thank you. My solution, and I suppose my parents solution, was to switch to public school which solved the problem. Public school was ultimately much more warm and inviting to me than a Christian school.
okrapod wrote:
Excellent. This is why education is important in these cases. We can learn ultimately, if we are motivated.
Lea wrote:
Same here, at Catholic school. But i never told my mother. She was fairly abusive. It affected me deeply.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
In my high school it was the generic ‘administrators’ who were also coaches. They seemed to do nothing but roam the halls and harass people who were in them during class, regardless of the reason. We had to go back to a teacher who had reamed us out for something, making us late for the next class, in order to get a note. The teacher in the next class would not have asked for anything. Stupid.
Mercy wrote:
I’m sorry.
I think I got out quickly enough that looking back it was mostly a blip. But a highly unpleasant blip of a year!
@ incognito:
It’s likely unlawful imprisonment, a serious felony . Your jurisdiction may use other terminology and legal requirements.
This is something that sends you to prison, not some time in your local jail.
Lea wrote:
It used to be different but any more it seems that females are expected to be either signaling their ‘availability’ or else not, with nothing in between. Let me give a recent real life example. Two young ladies, one 12 and the other 15 at the Y with their mother. Some young boys are checking them out. The 12 year old tells the 15 year old that the boys are watching them; she seems flattered but at a loss as to know what to do. So the 15 year old tells her to look and the boys and let the boys see her looking at them ‘so that they won’t feel too rejected, but do not (as in do not) speak to them’. According to the 15 year old this is the perfect way to be polite while not giving the ‘wrong’ impression. Mom, as I have repeatedly said teaches high school and is totally not a weirdo and agrees with the 15 year old; this just seems to be how things are now.
Lea wrote:
I’m glad you were able to get out. But it left you with an understanding and compassion for vctims.
@ okrapod:
look at, not look and
okrapod wrote:
I’m Gen X and I have occasionally had problems with taking in our vehicle for service, usually with somebody trying to sell me something extra we didn’t really need just then.
Lea wrote:
I agree that there may be a difference in degree but it does appear that the same underlying principles were at work. The teacher was clearly out of order.
NJ wrote:
Did you have to apologetically tell them that you were only taking the car in because your husband had asked you to and that he had said that he would pay for it?
Lydia wrote:
Gonna’ hafta’ watch Hanson’s vid.
I’ve said before, long before I ever heard any pundits say it, that we really are in a kind of post literate society. The worst case advance from there can really usher in a New Dark Age.
The great silicon-electronic-teat is everything. Some people absolutely cannot live without their ‘smart phones’, netflix, and facebook.
In a bizarre and perverse sort of way, tenuous as it might seem at the moment, I’m reminded of Bradbury’s Fahrenheit 451.
okrapod wrote:
I generally think men (and women for that matter) who conflate the two things are not being honest. Most of our communication as humans irl is nonverbal. There is a huge jump from flirting to seducing. I don’t trust people who tell me that they can’t tell the difference.
And while we are mentioning back then vs now as to better or worse, another example from my ridiculous life.
In 1964 I had been working as an RN for many years and had just graduated from medical school and begun my first post grad year. I was 30. I stopped by the Louisville Free Public Library to pick up something and they confiscated my library card and refused to let me check out the book. Reason: I had married and had asked to change my name on the card. Nope, can’t do that. They were willing to issue a card to my husband and give me a copy of his card which I could use, but I could not have my own library card.
Endorsement: J C Penney issued me my own credit card in my own name on request but they were the only ones who were willing to do that at that time. I shopped at Penney’s for years out of gratitude.
Endorsement: I saw exactly no/ zero/ none anti-female bias at the University of Louisville Medical School or its associated hospitals. I also got job offers both there and later in St Louis without apparent bias.
Go figure.
Lea wrote:
Well, I take no pleasure in saying this, but you got a lot of distrusting to do. Including you need to distrust me, because I am not so sure any more what people intend to convey when they ‘flirt’.
okrapod wrote:
Did I read you right? This really happened?
I would have never believed that well-intentioned idiocy could have gotten this far.
Muff Potter wrote:
I gather that you have been out of school for a while. Me too. My poor mind has boggled so much in the past relatively few years that it is about boggled out.
okrapod wrote:
Well, they mean a wide variety of things I’m sure. Including nothing at all. I’m assuming you don’t have many teenage girls (or young women) flirting with you…the question is do their objects understand them. Men vary too, here, this is not only a female thing. There is such a wide range of communication.
But when you come down to the end point, I think most people are rather clear.
okrapod wrote:
Because the kids were all smartphone zombies who had to be contacted through Social Media because if it isn’t on Social Media, It Does Not Exist?
Lea wrote:
There are a large number of males I’ve met that can’t seem to understand the difference between flirting and not wanting to have anything to do with you. Not that there aren’t females like that, but I really haven’t had a problem with other women stalking me.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
Apparently. It did have something to do with contact between the teachers and the kids, which is why RE declined.
Muff Potter wrote:
Experiments have demonstrated anxiety/panic-attack withdrawals when someone is separated from their smartphone for any length of time.
And one of the designers of Facebook said in an interview that the app was designed to be as addictive as possible — his actual words were “Giving you that dopamine hit every few seconds, whenever you tap or swipe.”
It’s not tenuous, Muff.
Whether your F451 is Bradbury’s novel or the visuals from Francois Truffaut’s movie adaptation. The only difference is in F451 it’s TV instead of Social Media.
(And in the movie version, keep an eye out for two scenes. One is a guy on the monorail tenderly/passionately kissing his reflection in the window. The other is a background guy when the cops break up some sort of assembly — guy is standing with his back to the camera with two hands coming from behind embracing him like a long-lost lover; when the cop checks him, you see that the hands are his own — he was passionately embracing himself. That says it all.)
Lea wrote:
And emojis on the smartphone screen doesn’t fil the niche of Meatspace non-verbals.
Muff Potter wrote:
Kim Jong-Un only needs to fire ONE high-altitude EMP shot…
okrapod wrote:
Isn’t this related to Virgin/Whore Dichotomy?
Lea wrote:
It is in all-or-nothing, black-or-white Dualism.
(Again, a form of Virgin/Whore Dichotomy.)
@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
I have been trying to imagine what it might be like to have grown up with this stuff and how that may play out in ways I don’t consider without reading all the opinions out there. Besides the obvious social factor, what brain and psychological functions do they lose not having to spend hours in the Library doing periodical search out of little green books but only 1% of that time producing something you can actually use for a paper?
I did listen to the Facebook guy who doesn’t allow his kids on this stuff. Reminds me of a late night round table I was in with one of the original 7 Microsoft guys, years ago. He said he would never do online banking. Hmmm.
Lydia wrote:
I’ve always found him to be a well informed man.
ishy wrote:
There may be some of that, but I suppose I attribute this more to entitlement and not listening.
Lea wrote:
I have watched a table full of 12 year olds texting each other instead of talking. Facebook is for granny’s. Snapchat, instagram, etc are the communication v3nues. There is a definite breakdown on what is communication and what things mean due to the lack of personal interaction. Using a drastic example, Not wearing a hijab in some communities here signals availability.
@ Mercy:
Great historIan, too.
Lea wrote:
You were very lucky. I was bullied in public school from grade 1 to grade 12, in the 1970’s. My parents first told me to ignore it. Later I was asked why I didn’t stand up for myself. There were a few times when my parents did contact the school, and the specific instance was resolved, but the bullying never stopped until I graduated from high school. (And then I went away to college and got involved with an abusive church, which led to spiritual bullying.)
Muff Potter wrote:
Check out Jonathan Haidt, Bret Weinstein, Jordan Peterson or a host of others that have spoken on the subject. If the Academy is an indicator of where we are headed then we are in for more trouble.
Lydia wrote:
I remember reading once that in several Islamic cultures, it is a point of pride that your son can recite his Koran from memory. In the local version of “He who dies with the most over-achieved child wins”, some parents put their kids into high-pressure madrassas to memorize and recite the entire Koran at as young an age as possible.
And that one of the side effects of such forced high-volume rote memorization at such a young age (before the brain is fully developed) is that the entire brain seems to wire itself around the memorization, eventually becoming unable to “think outside the box”. In the “six-year-old Imam” case, there can end up a complete inability to think other than search for the appropriate Sura/Verse in the Holy Text — “IT IS WRITTEN! IT IS WRITTEN! IT IS WRITTEN!”
Cerebral cortex becomes an MP3 playback, whether that MP3 is Koran, Bible, or Social Media.
Lydia wrote:
Which specific example is yet another example of Extreme Virgin/Whore Dichotomy.
Lydia wrote:
Just wait until you encounter toddlers in their strollers staring at their own screens.
(So far, pics of this have been staged as a joke. So far.)
Lydia wrote:
Yes. Very.
okrapod wrote:
It sounds awfully complicated and charged with opportunities for misunderstanding, and then in ten years the rules will likely be different. I work with a number of colleagues in their twenties and find some are quick to judge those who don’t share their sensibilities De jour. I wonder if in 40 years they will look back and remember.
On this subject as with others I am mystified that the idea of treating each other with respect needs to be rediscovered.
Lydia wrote:
Into the Void, boy…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fLXH50hA1Y
Tina wrote:
I can understand your plight and wonder how you suffered that long through it growing up. In my case it started in grade school but somewhere in middle school I grew a bit faster and one day decked one of the bullies and it ended then and there. I recall reading a story decades ago of a kid who had been tormented and took a gun to school and started shooting. While I never even thought of taking any such action way back then, still to this day I can sure understand the motivation behind it.
My hat is off to any and all that survive such abuse and become functioning adults, not to mention loving adults.
Thersites wrote:
I am reminded of the 60’s anti-Vietnam War youth who became the Yuppies of the 80’s…..
Respect is missing today. It used to be that one could disagree with another but a respectful boundary was in place. I’m not seeing a lot of that currently.
ishy wrote:
One of my early teen daughter’s friends encountered the ‘bad boy’ that they had previous problems with at her church. Evidently, bad boy is now attending the church school. He came up to her and was talking to her. Friend was giving minimal responses (and probably other nonverbal cues that she didn’t want anything to do with him); she said he talked a lot.
Mercy wrote:
Ummm, well, things have changed. But back in my ‘when’ the Catholics and the Baptists, for example, did not particularly respect each other. The southerners and the yankees did not have a lot of mutual respect floating around. The races were not leading the competition for mutual respect. I kind of think that a lot of what we are seeing is that the issues have changed as to who disrespects whom for what. And, what we used to call ‘manners’ has taken a real hit even though ‘manners’ in my thinking may have largely served the function of camo for real feelings.
Another aspect may be that when we disagreed before we largely disagreed with people from among the ‘other’ groups. Now we disagree a lot within our own groups-the former larger homogeneous identity groups are breaking up and re-forming along other lines. We may in fact feel betrayed by others whom we thought would surely agree with us.
Just thinking out loud.
okrapod wrote:
Some “leaders” have also discovered there is real money and power to be gained by driving a wedge between people and exciting passions.
Folks, somewhat off-topic, will you consider signing this petition? https://www.change.org/p/liberty-university-invite-rachael-denhollander-to-speak-at-convocation
A Facebook friend of mine and student at Liberty U. started this petition to get Rachael Denhollander (the first public victim of the Gymnastics coach recently convicted of sexual abuse with over 265 identified victims) as LU’s convocation speaker this year. David Nasser, the head of LU’s Office of Spiritual Development (OSD) has stated that he’s enthusiastic and interested. Thank you.
@ Thersites:
Bingo.
Hats off to the young ladies at Hamilton for their determination to get this story out.
I’m glad Dee decided to take the story and run with it……… Just goes to show that, most of the time, there’s no difference between secular 9-12 schools and churches.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
I see toddlers in public mesmerized by their screens all.the.time. In the shopping cart at the grocery store, at a restaurant, in their stroller just walking. It’s horrifying.
null wrote:
I guess one thing I don’t understand – not that I am disbelieving null, just don’t understand – is how the teachers could possibly NOT know there was a protection order in effect? I have some experience in my own state, which is not Indiana, and I also don’t know how it is different if a minor is the protected person. It seems really odd that the order itself didn’t mandate the teachers knew of its existence.
incognito wrote:
Dang straight it was abuse!
Wow. Fishers is right next to Zionsville, where relatives of mine live. Gobsmacked.
Actually not gobsmacked at all. One word: affluenza.
@ Thersites:
Thanx for the recommendations.
If I like an idea, I don’t care where it comes from.
Left, right, center, it makes no difference to me.
___
“I want HSE to realize what they did was wrong and I don’t want this to happen to anybody else because what happens if some freshman comes out and says that another football player did this to them and they choose the football player over them. That is something I don’t want anybody else to go through.” -Testimony Of Victim #1 of the alleged accused. (1)
(1) https://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/mr-royal-award-causes-uproar-among-students-parents-at-hamilton-southeastern-school
– –
okrapod wrote:
I’ve thought that too. They (manners) served as a kind of buffer zone which blunted potential outbreaks of aggression and violence.
Not so today:
I’m a little snow-flake and I am easily offended. The whole planet revolves around me and you had better agree with my stance on everything, cuz’ if ya’ don’t there’ll be hell ta’ pay!
The Arizona state House of Representatives voted today (56-3) to expel Rep. Don Shooter (R-Yuma), who has a number of verified examples of harassment of women over the years. It didn’t help that Shooter disputed the report. That infuriated other legislators and they drop-kicked him out of their august company.
https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/legislature/2018/02/01/arizona-house-votes-whether-remove-rep-don-shooter-office-sex-harassment/1086577001/
The women representatives of his political party led the charge in getting Shooter removed. I personally think he could have remained a member of the state House had he not disparaged the report detailing his words and actions.
I have long felt that schools should not have sports teams. Sports should be club events (and with all the travel leagues, many sports are heading this direction). I would hope it would make the purpose of high school to educate and not just win stuff.
People argue about kids keeping up their grades, but club teams could still have academic requirements.
Muff Potter wrote:
Most of these people don’t fit neatly on a spectrum but most would identify with the left. There is a lot out there but try searching for Joe Rogan’s interview with Weinstein and Peterson. In an odd contrast to Okrapod’s comment about new divisions forming, there is also a new accord forming of people who formerly may have been adversaries, now they simply find their prior differences unimportant and the need for free speech and discussion paramount. May their non-tribe increase.
okrapod wrote:
You make a lot of sense. I do think it depended on where you grew up. Someone in the South would be quite different from a Northerner. And then there are those of us from California….a whole different breed with countless subcultures.
So, back to the issue of the girls at Hamilton Southeastern High School. They are doing a good work and deserve support and recognition. They should not have to go to school in such a situation as they describe, and the adults in charge need to be held responsible for allowing it to continue. I hope we hear some good results from what they are doing–and hear it soon.
@ Thersites:
Amen. Dave Rubin is also one.
@ Muslin, fka Dee Holmes:
If only that had happened in the late 90’s instead of protecting the party and predator. Good for them!
Catholic Gate-Crasher wrote:
I lived in Zionsville back in the late70’s, early 80’s. Used to be a sweet, small town….only town around to have brick streets, and a Rolls Royce dealer. It has grown into quite an exclusive town. ( so I’ve heard)
Lydia wrote:
A couple of weeks ago I was eating out for lunch on Sunday, and there was a group of about 20 young women, I would guess in the age range of 16-20. At one point I was looking at them and of the ones I could actually see what they were doing, they were all on their phones. I wondered if they were texting each other.
Speaking of texting and the near-eradication of one-on-one communication via looking a human being in the eye….
Yesterday I went to the bank I’ve been a member of for years and my first visit to their new location. What a surprise! Not a human being in sight other than two women behind a desk and one gentleman walking around. No tellers! He knew I looked confused and helped me to use the “interactive teller machine” for the first time. Similar to ATM’s but when you push “start”, a bank teller appears on the screen and asks how she can help you. Your transaction and communication is done via a screen.
Maybe some of you have used this type of technology, but I was amazed!
https://www.suncoastcreditunion.com/itm
“I would ask you, as part of the sentencing, to grant me five minutes in a locked room with this demon” (Randall Margraves to Judge Cunningham, father of three daughters who were abused by Larry Nassar)
Perhaps Mr. Margraves has hit on something that both the world and the church are ignoring … trusted leaders doing awful things under the influence of the demonic.
@ Max:
My heart breaks for that dad, too. To sit and hear that and constantly reminding yourself you trusted that Satan and suspected nothing. I hate to take away child like innocence but we have to warn and educate children while making sure they understand boundaries and their personal worth. Parents have to learn what to look for and not disregard passing strange comments. We won’t totally eradicate this evil but we should try! And try hard! If the pervs know we are mean and vigilant, it helps.
We had an issue last week. And I was so proud of my teen who called the abuse hotline immediately with credibly suspected abuse. (Not sexual but physical on a 4 year old) Then she told selected adults. It was her first experience with it. And she cannot stop thinking and praying for that child. (And I do fear blowback but am preparing her for it)
Lydia wrote:
We have a fair sized muslim community here and I’ve never heard this one.
Lydia wrote:
It requires education on all levels I think. Of parents, adults in general, and kids of what to look for, what is and isn’t ok, etc. As it is, the only education a lot of people get is the hardest kind.
And then we have to support kids immediately when they report.
Lydia wrote:
And to think that there are countless dads across America who would like 5 minutes in a locked room with “pastors” who abused their children!
at least I’m sort of out wrote:
As I related above, their brains wiring and forming around the Black Mirror of the screen until they are completely unable to function without it. Nothing more than a meat-body puppet/extension of Social Media cyberspace.
My writing partner said if we ever had an EMP event that took out the cellphone grid and/or Internet, he expected mass suicides of smartphone zombies within a week of the EMP. I told him back to not forget the immediate die-off when they the App that controls “Breathe in… Breathe out… Breathe in… Breathe out…” goes poof.
Muff Potter wrote:
Makes you want to run them into those guys from last year’s Charlottesville riot with the Brown Shirts and tiki torches. Show the Speshul Widdle Snowfwakes what REAL pain is.
at least I’m sort of out wrote:
I mean, these tiny little screens that do so much are amazing. When i was a kid, we got Nintendo/game gear/game boys and they were fun, but this is better.
An interesting point that has been brought up on Twitter relates to the idea of having a “Mr. Royal” talent contest. Note it’s for guys only. Do the girls only have a beauty pageant or some other appearance-driven contest? I certainly would find it problematic if the guys have a talent contest while girls were only judged on appearance.
Dee said she was checking it out for us, but maybe one of the students can answer that.
___
Age Of Disgrace: “Un-believe-able ‘Sociability’ ™, Perhaps?”
hmmm…
“Any woman can now accuse any man of anything and post it on social media…and be believed.”
huh?
♪♩♪♩ hum, hum, hum …“Yes, my guard stood hard when abstract threats
Too noble to neglect
Deceived me into thinking
I had something to protect
Good and bad, I define these terms
Quite clear, no doubt, somehow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I’m younger than that now…”
Practicing righteousness and being holy these dayz is apparently seriously lost on those who do not know Jesus. (2)
(sadface)
♪♩♪♩ hum, hum, hum …”You can’t start a fire
worrying about your little world falling apart..”
ATB
Sòpy
—
(1) Bob Dylan, ‘My Back Pages’
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rGEIMCWob3U
(2) New Testament, Revelations 22: 10-12
Bonus: New Testament, John 3:16
;~)
– –
Yes was wondering about that talent competition. Why no Miss Royal?
@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
Don’t worry.Antifa was there.
@ Jack:
I can’t picture you in one. But my friend who volunteers as ESL instructor covers when she ventures in to teach the kids in the evenings. That, or get intimidated.
Jack wrote:
Your community might be rare, in a very good way. But your community is not necessarily representative. I did a quick internet search and this was the first on the list: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2006/oct/26/australia.marktran. Even though you have mot experienced this behavior, many have.
I think they main take-away is no religion is free from bad behavior. Exposing bad behavior is very much needed wherever humans are involved.
Victorious wrote:
Off topic: I grew up in the Tampa Bay area.
___
“Reading da Signs, Perhaps?”
hmmm…
This one goes out ta “little somethin’” ,
Somewhere in Indiana…
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wr_g8w5zpHw
(tears)
…bless You darlin’ !
[prayers]
May our Lord, Wipe Away All Your Tears,
Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee?
there will be another dance…wait for it,
ATB
Sòpy
;~)
– –
“First Woman To Accuse Nassar Says Church Can Be One Of ‘Worst Places’ To Go For Help:
People who work with victims of sexual assault say the evangelical church should re-evaluate how it treats survivors.”
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/rachael-denhollander-the-church-isnt-safe-for-sexual-abuse-victims_us_5a73264ce4b06fa61b4e1574?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009
Yep, TWW knew that.
@ JYJames:
From the article you linked:
“It is with deep regret that I say the church is one of the worst places to go for help.” (Rachael Denhollander)
I suspect that we have not seen the last of Ms. Denhollander. She may very well become one of the strongest voices yet to draw attention to patriarchal church systems which too often support abusers and silence the abused. An overwhelming cry for change is penetrating multiple compartments of American life. It’s high time for certain corners of the evangelical church to be held accountable for misapplying Scripture in regard to male headship/female submission which often leads to abuse in one form or another.
Bridget wrote:
I’m glad it was resolved for you, but that usually doesn’t seem to be the case.
I was bullied a lot… the worst of it was in junior high. Even though I never, ever initiated the fights, name calling, etc, when my parents would have me report such incidents to the principals, I would get blamed for it.
I’ve said this on the blog before a time or two previously, but there is a lot of overlap between school bullying, workplace bullying, domestic abuse, and church/spiritual abuse.
I picked up on this after reading a million books (and online articles) about workplace abuse, then years later, books on boundaries, people pleasing, childhood bullying, domestic and dating abuse, etc.
What I learned from the reading of so many sources on those issues:
The bullies /abusers often use the same tactics, and the victims are usually victim-blamed, shoved aside by those in authority, while the authority figures rally around the bully/ abuser.
The general dynamics of abuse (whether verbal, sexual, or physical abuse is involved) don’t change from church, to school playground, to secular work places.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
When I was in college, and my father asked me about my career of choice, and I told him, he spent the first two years of my college career saying,
“You should marry a doctor or lawyer.”
I always thought that was a bit sexist of him, to tell one of his daughters to marry a doctor or lawyer. But I didn’t say anything to him.*
At least by the last year of college he changed a bit to say to me, “Why don’t YOU become a lawyer or doctor.”
*My mom did tell me several times as I was growing up that my father is in fact a bit sexist and thinks men are smarter / more competent than women.
(Yet my father held my sister and myself to the same tough standards as he did my brother.)
@ Thersites:
I’m not sure, but I think I did a blog post on my Daisy blog explaining that sexism and other societal ills existed before the 1960s, women’s lib, and all the other stuff conservatives like to blame for today’s societal problems.
(Disclaimer: I am a conservative myself but one who thinks other conservatives are sometimes wrong on some topics. I think conservatives go much too far into blaming feminism for anything and everything.)
readingalong wrote:
I was bullied a lot by kids at school.
Whenever my parents or a teacher found out and if my parents or the teachers informed the parents of some jerk kid that the jerk kid was bullying me, the parents never ever wanted to believe that their angelic, sweet, precious little Johnnie or Susie could ever, ever be mean and cruel to another child.
As a kid, that sort of parental denial made me want to throw up. Yes, parents, your kid, your sweet, sweet kid, can and did bully me.
okrapod wrote:
I saw an article several years ago that said some employers were forcing job seekers on interviews to give them the passwords to their Facebook accounts.
Ha ha haaaa, NO.
Lea wrote:
I’ve sometimes read news articles where pedophiles use this same reasoning. They argue that a three year old girl was being “seductive” with them.
Lea wrote:
I’ve had many boys and men mistake my platonic friendly chit chat for flirting. It’s very annoying. A lot of men have huge egos, apparently. But anyway, some of them may be just dense enough to confuse or misunderstand female behavior. I don’t know.
ishy wrote:
This has been true for me over the course of my life as well, from the time I was a girl to my adult years.
Many males have confused my friendly (non romantic) attempts at conversation (to pass the time) as being me being Hot To Trot for them, when such was not the case.
I generally ended up by avoiding men in public.
I pretty much try NOT to initiate any sort of friendly chit chat with men, since so many of them seem to feel a woman chatting them up about the weather or some mundane issue translates to “Oooh, she wants to date me or have sex with me!!”
Daisy wrote:
I know it is not usually the case, I didn’t mean to imply that it was or that everyone should handle it like I did. I was just livid and wanted it to stop. This child was treated poorly by other kids as well. It wasn’t a pleasant high school experience at all. I eventually took child out and let them sit for a state equivalency test. Child passed that without studying at all. It has soured child regarding further education.
Tina wrote:
One of my mother’s favorite pieces of advice when I came home as a kid or teen crying and upset about having been bullied was to say,
“Don’t do anything about it. In two weeks, the bully will tire and move on to a new target.”
Nope. No. Not true. Bullies never got tired of picking on me. They didn’t move on to a new target. That was total hooey.
In my case, my mother prohibited me from defending myself, even POLITELY.
I asked her when I was a teen, can I at least politely confront my bully and tell him to stop it?
She got a horrified look on her face and said no, it might hurt the bully’s feelings. I was like, he’s been hurting MY feelings for two weeks. Still didn’t matter to my mom.
Later in my life, my Dad has kind of wondered why (as an adult) I tended to be such a doormat, why I don’t confront problem people and take charge of situations.
I love my Dad, but der, duh! How clueless (for a guy who is normally pretty smart).
Look at the parenting I got as I was growing up – he and Mom taught me to be a doormat. (Only bad, selfish girls would be assertive and stand up to bullies.)
Bridget wrote:
Oh, I was not annoyed or angered by you or your post. I was just stating my experiences and observations. 🙂
Daisy wrote:
I got bullied a good bit, too. When I stood up for myself, they didn’t stop, either. I think most bullies are addicted to that feeling of power they get from acting like bullies.
Except for once, where I managed to stop it rather decisively. I had a bully/sexual harasser in high school. He would make randy comments, pinch me, poke me, try to pull my bag off, and sometimes worse things. I said something to a few teachers, and one I know talked to him a few times, and he kept doing it. This was at a time when teachers and administrators probably had very little power to do anything about stuff like that, even though I went to a pretty good school.
So I took matters into my own hands. We were going on an overnight school trip, and I found a chain-link dog collar at a garage sale that still had all the dog tags on it. This guy bragged constantly about how all girls liked him (they didn’t). He was kind of a bully to everyone, so most people in the group couldn’t stand him. I put the collar in a very pretty gift bag with French love words and hearts all over it, decorated it up with curly ribbon, and put on a card that said “From your secret admirer.” The whole group going on the trip knew I was giving it to him, so I left it on his hotel room door when one of his roommates saw me do it.
He never came near me or said a word to me again.
I will say this was before I was a Christian, and now I would probably report him to the police and get a restraining order, but as a teenager who didn’t have much recourse in a time when all most adults would say was “Boys will be boys” or “He must really like you; you should just be flattered!” He tormented me for almost three years and me standing up to him before had done little. I don’t think I regretted it one bit.
Pam Palmer,
Thank you for sharing the link regarding the petition to have Rachael Denhollander speak at Liberty University’s convocation this year.
It’s incredible that of all the churches and ministries in the USA, Mrs. Denhollander calls out Sovereign Grace Ministries and their 30 year child sex abuse cover-up.
___
“In Search For The Lost Accord, Perhaps.”
hmmm…
Once, sometime ago, a young man was taught to respect the opposite sex of his generation.
Now ‘select’ public high school young men wait with squinted glistening eyes to ponder and prelude their ‘favorable’ moment to gapingly pounce upon the next unsuspecting conquest to deflower. The high-five’s with caesurally approving cronies invariably comes shortly thereafter…
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7BDBzgHXf64
Susceptibility to sexual abuse is increasing by a wide margin?
yep.
Statistics tell us the unfortunate story.
also true.
Is it any wonder that younger and younger women today are fighting back with whatever means available to obtain a ‘voice’ and further attentive assistance?
Is this cry for ‘help’ falling upon flagrantly deaf administrative ears?
could b.
For young women still attending public high school, is have chaperones becoming a dire necessity?
(or a bright body-guard with a concealed side arm, and a savvy family lawyer on retainer?)
Or does the situation possibly warrant a proverbial white sack of oranges and a severed equestrian anamorphic vestige?
(sadface)
Sòpy
—
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wK-b5PLhrEI
😉
– –
ishy wrote:
Does the movie character Biff Tannen ring a bell?
Muff Potter wrote:
“Think, McFly!”
Yeah. They kinda looked alike, too…
@ Ken F (aka Tweed):
This might help Jack understand
https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=540_1517515348
https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=129_1517467508
#120db
Euro women fighting back
This could be of interest:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/01/12/colorado-administrators-indicted-for-suspending-student-who-reported-sex-assault-by-teacher.html
L. Lee wrote:
These administrators are sick!
Thersites wrote:
We are a growing underground. Free thinkers, rogue anomalies, and renegades.
Beholden to none and ready to recognize common cause that transcends labels and tribal distinctives.
Forrest wrote:
They should all be fired!
@ Muff Potter:
It’s so interesting! Jews, Athiests, Christians even some cultural Muslims like the Imam of Peace, Taweed. They are digging deep on philosophy, gov, culture, history, etc. They are using video format to dig in and crowdfunding to exist. All topics are foundational to the arena of ideas which requires free speech. (YouTube is demonitizing them in an effort to censor)
Dave Rubin said he would rather be demonitized than have gov intervention. These guys are incredible.
Bridget wrote:
For sure.
Sickening what they did to the young woman and her family. Sounds like
*churchy* school administrators under the influence of some twisted pastor’s teaching.
@ Lydia:
Over the years I’ve become just as disillusioned with the progressive left as I have with the Reagan-Friedmanesque right. Disillusioned in the sense that both are custom built structures with no interchangeable parts.
Sòpwith wrote:
“HEY BEAVIS! HE SCOOOOOORED! HEH-HUH! HEH-HUH! HEH-HUH!”
@ Muff Potter:
Milton big on free speech. That is key.
Lydia wrote:
I adore Friedman. But he was an economist.
Politics is messy. You can’t go into it star eyed and thinking any one person or one party is going to fix all the problems.
Lea wrote:
Yet so many Christians have with God’s Only Party(TM).
(Though there’s probably more cynicism than starry eyes, especially among the professional Christians at the top.)