"With power comes the abuse of power. And where there are bosses, there are crazy bosses. It's nothing new." Judd Rose link
We interrupt our website rebuilding to further discuss Joe Carter's post Beware of Broken Wolves. As you know, Joe Carter said that this post wasn't about us. A person left a comment on his blog asking if he was specifically referring to us or Spiritual Sounding Board. Joe denied this and I believe him in regards tp his initially published post. Unfortunately Joe decided to take this opportunity to go after TWW. Not only that, he initiated a Twitter war with Dee and got himself into a bit of hot water.
Joe Carter says TWW is hateful, yada, yada, and yada
Here is the comment that started it all.
He then followed up with another comment.
Thanks to our friends.
First and foremost, I want to thank our many friends who rose to the occasion, leaving comments which questioned his entire premise. Some of you guys really do theology well!
Rebuttal to Carter's points.
- The word, discernment, in Calvinista lingo, means that you offer opinions that do not reflect well on their BFFs or *tribe.* Case in point-CJ Mahaney.
- We do not *bash* other people. *Bash* is an indiscriminate word meaning to strike violently. We write hard posts that involve abuse of children and adults at the hands of theologically and empathetically impaired church leaders. We believe that harming others in the name of Jesus is something that is to be exposed and evaluated. Jesus called religious leaders, who burdened the people, words like *dogs,* *vipers,* *white-washed tombs,* etc. He even suggested that those who hurt his dear little ones should have cement boots applied and be flung in a deep lake. Abuse is ugly and it affects people for the rest of their lives. Many have left the church not due to unbelief, but due to abuse. My pastor, a loving man, said to a friend of mine who told him he had a bad experience in the church, "There's a lot of that going around these days." Thank God for men and women like him who get it.
- He has not dealt with us for over a decade. It has only been 8 years since our start and I doubt he heard of us for some time when we first got started. However, I bet his interested in us began when we started supporting those who were hurt by CJ Mahaney and gang. Joe Carter really loves Mahaney and will go after anyone who brings it up to him. Basically we were screwed from the start.
- He said that we only care about trashing other Christians who do not subscribe to our theological beliefs. Sanctified™ baloney! We care about people who have been abused by churches. It appears that the Calvinistas have been in the news recently so they get the attention. However, we have written about non-Calvinistas such as Benny Hinn, Ed Y Young JR, Maurilio Amorim, Pete Wilson, IFB pastors, Bob Jones University, Steven Furtick, Generations Church, Franklin Graham, and on and on.
- He said we have lied and slandered good people. We put links to all of our posts-something that Joe Carter did not do when he wrote this screed. The reason for that is that he knows we don't deliberately lie. He just doesn't like our opinions. he should link to what we wrote, show how he knows we know that it is a lie, and prove his point. However, he cannot do that. One thing I can promise our readers is this. You may not like our opinions but we would never, ever deliberately lie/slander in order to cause harm to another person. We might be mistaken in our opinion or you might disagree with us but we don't lie. he still does not get the definition of these words.
He claims that most every reputable Christian-Reformed, non Reformed, complementarian, egalitarian, Sunday school teachers janitors etc. want nothing to do with us. Joe must be very busy keeping in touch with *just about every reputable Christian group* in this country. This is the sort of hyperbole that will discredit TGC. Joe should use real names of groups and real numbers.
It must be hard for him to see that our blog has gained such a large readership. He needs to do what we do. Prove it! Give us links.
- He says we are backbiters. This means to talk slanderously about someone who is not present. ROFL! We are discussing public figures involved in public ministry. If the want to play in public, they get to be critiqued in public, just like us, Joe! Our blog, unlike others that we know of, allows for comments and even highly critical comments of us. We can take it.You friends can as well. As you know, we are the weaker sex, right?
- The infamous Tim Challies post was brought up. We are thrilled. Deb busted her tush researching out post that got Challies bent out of shape. We, along with the rest of our readership, forgot about it. I bet Tim is not thrilled this was raised again. We plan to present our original post. This time we have lots and lots of readers who will most likely remember this for a long time to come. Maybe Joe should have let sleeping dogs lie. Plan to see this on our blog in the next week or so.
My initial *hateful* response to Joe Carter
Here is my response on Carter's website. Referring to the above first comment I said:
Joe Carter tried to hurt Dee and Janet Mefferd on Twitter. He actually admitted it.
Here is what happened. I was asleep when things exploded. Unbeknownst to me, Carter came onto Twitter with a goal in mind. Eric catches on and calls him on it.
He proceeded to ask me what I believe about homosexuality and reparative therapy.
I am pretty sure that Carter had no idea that I wrote extensively on this subject quite a while ago. But, those posts were not highly discussed except on this blog. It looks like they flew under his radar and he didn't Google before he decided to *trap* me.
Here were my answers after I woke up and got home from church which we attended this week in the morning instead of Saturday evening.
- I said that I was sorry to disappoint him but he would find my stand orthodox and told him to Google it. I decided that he needed to do his own research instead of flying off the handle.I research and link every time I make a statement about TGC as opposed to Joe who decided to deal in hyperbole and innuendo.
- I told him that I take the same stand that the SBC takes on reparative therapy. Reparative therapy is ineffective.
- I also sent another tweet telling Joe "not to faint" because I met with Justin Lee, the head of The Gay Christian Network and found him to be an awesome and loving person.
3. He asked if I thought unrepentant homosexuals would go to heaven.
My answer is one that TWW readers will recognize. I leave the matter of who gets into heaven in the capable hand of our Father who does not need or desire my advice. I wonder if TGC thinks God could use their help?
I am sick to death about the chronic fixation on homosexuality by TGC while they ardently continuing to defend the indefensible when it comes to things like CJ Mahaney/SGM situation. In the midst of the Twitter feeds there were some who questioned him on his support of Mahaney. Carter still stands by him. He also expressed concern that TWW doesn't seem to understand that TGC is against child sex abuse. Seriously?!!!
Why is Joe Carter so mad at TWW? We believe it is about CJ Mahaney.
The Christian Post wrote The Gospel Coalition, Christian Bloggers Spar Over Sovereign Grace Ministry, C.J. Mahaney on Twitter Sadly this conversation, begin with great hope on my part, ended in a similar fashion to that conversation.
In one tweet, Carter suggested that Parsons, Hoag and Julie Ann, a spiritual abuse watchdog blogger, were "pathologically dishonest."
After Parsons asked him to clarify what "slander" he was referring to, Carter responded "Have you not intimated that CJM was involved in a coverup of sexual abuse?" linking to a recent post on her site where a guest blogger claimed that Mahaney was guilty.
Parsons defended herself, claiming that "everyone has a right to express their point of view. Also, I tend to believe the victims."
…Carter challenged Parsons, arguing that by publishing posts which argued that the civil lawsuit was true, she was still defaming Mahaney and other SGM leaders' reputations.
"So accusing someone of covering up pedophilia does not hurt their reputation?" he asked. "So how is 'I believe it, I can publicly repeat it' not gossip? Is that the Christians standard now?"
…Parsons told CP that she thought she addressed Carter in a way that was "very matter of fact" and "no animosity," inviting him to see if he wanted to meet with one of Morales' victims.
"I made that offer two times," said Parsons. "Joe Carter did not respond to me, and then on Saturday he turned the tables on me and mentioned slander and lawsuits and one of the tweets said, I could be sued for what I said."
This exchange made me sad and left me with a couple of questions.
-Why is CJ Mahaney and SGM so important to TGC?
-Why is homosexuality the hot button issue for TGC, CBMW, etc. Did you see their new organization? Why nothings about child sex abuse if they are so gosh darn concerned?
-Why is Joe Carter so angry at TWW? Perhaps we are having some impact on the injustice found in cover up child sex abuse, downplaying domestic violence, membership contracts and church discipline.
-Does the TGC council believe that this sort of exchange reflects well on their organization?
-Will Joe Carter be made to prove that TWW lies.
-Do the women who support TGC believe that this sort of exchange with a women is indicative of how women are treated in TGC and related groups?
My summation for the current exchange with Joe Carter, is taken from, oddly, The Christian Post from 3 years ago.
Parsons said she was disappointed with how the interaction with Carter transpired.
"I really wanted to build a bridge [with Joe] and that was my goal and my hope and that's since been destroyed. And that's where I stand," said Parsons. "I had no animosity to Joe Carter in that exchange. I looked at it as the potential for positive opportunity to bring understanding in this whole mess and I'm actually very sad."
Here are some comments by readers on Joe Carter's now infamous post on Beware of Broken Wolves.
Thank you all for your kindness.
And the weirdest comment of the Carter post awarded to the dude who chalks this up to a demonic phenomena!