Shauna and Billy Share Proof of Billy’s Rape While Ken Ramey and Elders Whine

Shauna and Billy demonstrate their courage by sharing the following documents with the TWW readership. They are fed up with claims, allegedly  coming from within the church community, that Billy was not raped. She has heard claims that this was a consensual relationship. Well, let's see what you think after looking at the hospital records.

Please join with us in praying for Shauna and Billy. I am keeping the GoFundMe campaign open.

Shauna shared this plea deal with the names blacked out.

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Shauna shares the bill from the hospital where Billy was treated after the rape.

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Shauna shares the overdue bill for the ambulance that brought Billy to the hospital.

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Shauna gave us the initialed Safe Harbor attendance form for Billy to receive counseling

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The Lakeside Bible Church pastors and elders shows us that *real men* whine about their tough lot in life and don't focus on the real victims: Billy and Shauna.

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Comments

Shauna and Billy Share Proof of Billy’s Rape While Ken Ramey and Elders Whine — 149 Comments

  1. Now let’s see Ken Ramey explain medical records (sexual assault /rape) , Joe’s guilty plea, Billy’s ambulance ride!!!! The night billy was raped by Joe

  2. I’m so proud! De lurking to tell you one of those emails came from me. Oddly enough, no answers to my questions on how they will help Shauna and Billy or ensure that the perp gets the help that might give him a chance, or what they are going to do to avoid repeats……

  3. Rape is beyond disgust and beyond violence and beyond anything a person could describe. And the elders minimizing the act to consensual sex is beyond denial. By their very actions, the elders have condemned themselves because they know they are wrong, yet they pridefully continue in their own deception. You haven’t reviewed an apology from LBC, but I will apologize for your terrible experience from those who profess to follow the Christ, yet by their very actions deny Him. You are very much in my prayers.

  4. I guess these rape apologists can’t hide behind their deceptive “defrauding” language (i.e. “women who dress nicely have it coming”) when gay and child rape is involved.

  5. RW wrote:

    De lurking to tell you one of those emails came from me

    Good for you. Hold their feet to the fire!

  6. Mark wrote:

    You haven’t reviewed an apology from LBC, but I will apologize for your terrible experience from those who profess to follow the Christ, yet by their very actions deny Him. You are very much in my prayers.

    Thank you for showing pastors and Elders (with a capital E) how Christians act.

  7. @ Paul D.:
    They want to call it consensual because they don’t want to deal with the fact that they had a molester on their hands.

  8. Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist wrote:

    But I feel so very sad for Billy and Shauna, and sad that this church has chosen to hurt them.

    Sad is exactly how I feel about this whole incident. I don’t get these guys. Did they miss out in the heart department? And to top it off, they act like whiney butts.

  9. dee wrote:

    Sad is exactly how I feel about this whole incident. I don’t get these guys. Did they miss out in the heart department? And to top it off, they act like whiney butts.

    Yeah, but I’m so proud of Shauna and Billy. It takes a tremendous amount of courage, and faith, to do what they are doing!

  10. It is about power and control for the leaders…and having something this bad happen within their little bubble does not fit the narrative, so either did not happen, or it must be covered up/suppressed… And, by definition the leaders have all the answers in their world view, so how they deal with, not the fallen, secular world, is the “correct way”… I was raised in that kind of bubble and “get” the thinking of the leaders…. And it is just plain horrible

  11. This is just horrible what was done to this boy and to his Mom.

    Additionally, the woman “Pam” that Ken Ramey’s church put in charge of “counseling” mom Shauna to forget it about it all, disclosed that
    her own daughter had probably been sexually abused at a TX day care,
    had injuries on her private parts, and “Pam” just changed day cares!

    Under TX law all adults in TX are mandated child abuse reporters.
    “Pam” had a legal obligation to report that incident and that daycare.
    Instead, Pam KNOWINGLY put OTHER CHILDREN in DANGER! What Pam admitted to Shauna is a crime on Pam’s behalf than can land Pam in jail!

    Who had access to those daycare children and who sexually abused that
    daughter? How many other children were sexually abused there? By whom?

    I was so outraged to read that part of the other story posted on The Wartburg Watch that I cut and pasted it and turned it in to Texas Attorney General’s Office.

    I seriously question if there is a single person at Ken Ramey’s church who has at least two working brain cells. (We already know they’re a heartless bunch.)

  12. Hi Dee,

    I know you have a lot on your plate with taken care of three elderly relatives, one being your mother-in-law in hospice (at your home). I and others here are praying for you.

    If at all possible could you, or Deb, post a little update on the GoFundMe account for Shuana and Billy and what their needs are at this time. I know that they have mentioned food, clothing for both of them, shoes, that type of thing.

  13. They call it playing the martyr…what Ken et al. are doing. Pathetic. And sick, really sick. Too bad they lost their “big boy pants” and couldn’t find it within themselves to do the right thing protecting the REAL victim.

    Hard to play the victim/martyr when the truth is now out there. Shame on them that it even needs to be shared to expose them as hiding/obscuring the facts!

  14. I was a member. I am shocked that this happened two years ago! I had a child in the youth program. I am utterly shocked that this is how I find out.

    Anyone who has lived the nightmare of rape can never understand this or accept it. My prayers are with you both. I truly grieve for your son. He is blessed to have a mom like you. Thank you for standing up for your son and not backing down.

  15. Dr. Fundystand, thank you for your words. Know that the truth is bringing peace and I have no doubt it will ultimately bring justice for my Billy with Ken Ramey’s agregious accusations against Billy!Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist wrote:

    Very sad. I admit, I feel nothing but contempt for Ramey and the cowards he has surrounded himself with. But I feel so very sad for Billy and Shauna, and sad that this church has chosen to hurt them.

  16. The way the church frames the situation shows contempt for the victims in this and makes a mockery of justice. This is not Christlike. This is corruption. Those leaders need to step down immediately and so what if the church folds? It isn’t their church to build.

  17. dee wrote:

    They want to call it consensual because they don’t want to deal with the fact that they had a molester on their hands.

    This. Because if they had a molester on their hands, they’d have to do something about it. And these guys have shown they’d rather not do anything.

  18. Dee you make me smile and have brought joy, thank you. By the way Billy told me he wants to be there Monday for that meeting. How amazing is this,boy of mine? He wants to be the one to tell his story and top it off put a face to it. dee wrote:

    Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist wrote:

    But I feel so very sad for Billy and Shauna, and sad that this church has chosen to hurt them.

    Sad is exactly how I feel about this whole incident. I don’t get these guys. Did they miss out in the heart department? And to top it off, they act like whiney butts.

  19. you’re tough and brave, Shauna and Billy. I really want to bring you a home-made pie. but the distance and the journey wouldn’t be good to the lattice top and it would no longer be warm, right-out-of-the-oven.

  20. That’s ok we feel your love. I would make you a cake and have coffee with you. elastigirl wrote:

    you’re tough and brave, Shauna and Billy. I really want to bring you a home-made pie. but the distance and the journey wouldn’t be good to the lattice top and it would no longer be warm, right-out-of-the-oven.

  21. Ramey and his yes men have sown the wind.
    Karma and her sister Comeuppance are relentless. They cannot be reasoned with nor will they stop until Themis’ balances are reset. They are like T-1000 models from the future.

  22. @ Muff Potter:

    “Karma and her sister Comeuppance are relentless. They cannot be reasoned with nor will they stop…”
    ++++++++++

    deep, deep sigh.

  23. I hope those people really do pray that their pastor and elders are filled with truth. That would be a step in the right direction.

  24. Divorce Minister, thank you for making this,statement. Ken Ramey told me after the rape that I was being a martyr in my grief over what joe did to billy and that I was bitter an angry. Keep in mind that this has been their mantra since week one!Divorce Minister wrote:

    They call it playing the martyr…what Ken et al. are doing. Pathetic. And sick, really sick. Too bad they lost their “big boy pants” and couldn’t find it within themselves to do the right thing protecting the REAL victim.

    Hard to play the victim/martyr when the truth is now out there. Shame on them that it even needs to be shared to expose them as hiding/obscuring the facts!

  25. I’m asking all church members former and current at LBC to contact the church. If you support Billy if you believe Billy now tell Ken Ramey! Ask him to stop slandering Billy and to publically apologize to my son for the malicious, factious, slanderous statements he has made about Billy since the rape occurred and he began his assault on Billy with his covering this up and sweeping it under the rug while trying to silence the victims! I’m calling all members to hold Ken and the Elders accountable as they seem to have no problem preaching and forcing accountability on LBC members. Billy and I lost our church, friends, my work, and Billy’s life changed forever that night. I could have stayed silent just to keep everything but not without comprise. I could have went followed kens demands for silence his advice in denying Billy care through safe harbor, his asking me to stay away from the investigation and not contact the district attorney when court orders were violated. Instead we choose healing, we chose to nix everything for the truth and stand up. There has been sacrifice that has come with a cost. I’m asking all LBC members what are you willing to sacrifice? Will you demand a wrong to be made right? Or will your silence become deafening? Are you willing to take any heat for standing up for me and billy, because what if it was your family, your children? Others have sacrificed much ( SGM Survivors ) for the sake of the truth and their children. Some have lost more. What is Christ calling you to do and where are the Men the protectors those who should be guarding the weak, the vulnerable, the children, the women? Maybe Dee’s title is appropriate to this post.

  26. What an absurd and untruthful position the church is taking.

    If the pastor and the elders are telling people that Billy was not raped in a non-consensual situation, especially after the publication of these documents, which should be sent by email and certified mail to the pastor, each elder and church staff member, that would be a clear case of slander. It is intentionally telling an untruth to harm Billy and Shauna. A lawsuit is in order in my opinion.

  27. It needs to be noted that no child under the age 14 can not give consent. This is in every state and certainly Texas Law! @ marquis:
    Anonymous wrote:

    What an absurd and untruthful position the church is taking.

    If the pastor and the elders are telling people that Billy was not raped in a non-consensual situation, especially after the publication of these documents, which should be sent by email and certified mail to the pastor, each elder and church staff member, that would be a clear case of slander. It is intentionally telling an untruth to harm Billy and Shauna. A lawsuit is in order in my opinion.

  28. Oops meant to say no child under the age of 14 can give consent, Texas Law!marquis wrote:

    It needs to be noted that no child under the age 14 can not give consent. This is in every state and certainly Texas Law! @ marquis:
    Anonymous wrote:

    What an absurd and untruthful position the church is taking.

    If the pastor and the elders are telling people that Billy was not raped in a non-consensual situation, especially after the publication of these documents, which should be sent by email and certified mail to the pastor, each elder and church staff member, that would be a clear case of slander. It is intentionally telling an untruth to harm Billy and Shauna. A lawsuit is in order in my opinion.

  29. Grace, a core docturine of Christainity, makes no sence if true sin is not exposed and convicted. Once this happens, true grace can be given to the person deserving justice/punishment.

    In this situation, the leaders sure are not behaving in a Christain manner…. Sweeping sin under the carpet and demanding grace given prior to true exposure and openess is not Biblical… The Bible is full of example of sin being full exposed and delt with before grace was given..
    Amen to the bravery of mother and son to stand up for truth and justice… And not corruption and coverups… Everone is sinful, and needs to held to public standards… Especially the leaders..

  30. It’s time for churches to stop calling crimes “sins”! That’s like declaring that water is wet. Sheesh!

    Sins can be forgiven, but crimes must be punished.

    Billy and Shauna, you have a lot of good people cheering for you! Your strength and courage are awesome!

  31. The light of truth drives out the secrecy and darkness that the perpetrators need to continue.

    Marquis, you have driven out that darkness by proving the truth of your allegations.

    Wasn’t there, as HUG is wont to say, “a certain rabbi from Bethlehem” who said something about truth and freedom?

  32. Thank you and it’s partly because of all of you and these two wonderful woman among others who are standing with me and billy driving this from darkness into the light. It truly is freeing no matter how painful the journey. @ marquis:
    Uncle Dad wrote:

    It’s time for churches to stop calling crimes “sins”! That’s like declaring that water is wet. Sheesh!

    Sins can be forgiven, but crimes must be punished.

    Billy and Shauna, you have a lot of good people cheering for you! Your strength and courage are awesome!

  33. “Be praying that our Pastor and Elders be filled with grace and truth as they seek to shepherd God’s flock through the recent factious, malicious, and slanderous accusations sent by email about our Pastor and church.”

    It be a miracle if these men get “filled with grace and truth.”

    Because then they would be compelled to repent of their “factious, malicious, and slanderous accusations.”

  34. mirele wrote:

    And these guys have shown they’d rather not do anything.

    You betcha! And,they declare that he *became a Christian* so obviously the rape factor is moot since, of course, we become sinless at conversion.

    Oh yeah, and those conversions around criminal convictions: “Please Judge, I go to Bible studies now. I deserve freedom.”

  35. Remnant wrote:

    It be a miracle if these men get “filled with grace and truth.”
    Because then they would be compelled to repent of their “factious, malicious, and slanderous accusations.”

    Well said!

  36. marquis wrote:

    It needs to be noted that no child under the age 14 can not give consent.

    Do you know how many *Christians*, when caught accuse the young children under the age of consent of seducing them? This is despicable and unworthy of anyone who bears the name of Christ.

  37. Yes! and you can imagine my astonishment the day Ken told me Joe got saved when I told him he finally after months of lying admitted to raping Billy and declared he was a homosexual to the district attorney and then began stating he wasn’t responsible because billy was a homosexual. Joe took a plea of guilty in spite of this claim and was put into the juvenile sex offender program in Montgomery County Texas! Apparently the District Attorney and the state of Texas did not agree to Joe’s claims as the evidence was overwhelming and Billy is believed,why? because children do not make up rape/trauma! The documents above, need I say more?@ marquis:
    dee wrote:

    mirele wrote:

    And these guys have shown they’d rather not do anything.

    You betcha! And,they declare that he *became a Christian* so obviously the rape factor is moot since, of course, we become sinless at conversion.

    Oh yeah, and those conversions around criminal convictions: “Please Judge, I go to Bible studies now. I deserve freedom.”

  38. Memorial Hermann hospital in Houston is a hospital that has an excellent reputation. Having lived outside of Houston (for 23 yrs), I myself had a doctor that was part of the Memorial hospital. Also, my husband’s uncle used to be on staff as a doctor at one of their hospitals. So there is no question to be had in anyone’s mind that this hospital didn’t know what they are talking about or did the wrong thing. The hospital they went to is in an area that is well known in Houston. I no longer live in the Houston area, but for my money, they give you great treatment. There is no Ken Ramey and his band of goons can discredit what this hospital had to say.

  39. Amen

    dee wrote:

    marquis wrote:
    It needs to be noted that no child under the age 14 can not give consent.
    Do you know how many *Christians*, when caught accuse the young children under the age of consent of seducing them? This is despicable and unworthy of anyone who bears the name of Christ.

  40. Marquis and Billy-

    de-lurking to say that I hate the treacherous, poisonous way the people at your church have treated you. It has everything to do with them and nothing to do with you.

    You, my dear sister, and my dear little brother–you are walking miracles. I see God at work in you and through you. You have been strong and courageous. You have held on to the certainty that God loves you, that God is for you.

    So let me just say it with you: God loves you. God is for you.

    I am, too.

  41. Harley wrote:

    Memorial Hermann hospital in Houston is a hospital that has an excellent reputation. Having lived outside of Houston (for 23 yrs), I myself had a doctor that was part of the Memorial hospital. Also, my husband’s uncle used to be on staff as a doctor at one of their hospitals. So there is no question to be had in anyone’s mind that this hospital didn’t know what they are talking about or did the wrong thing. The hospital they went to is in an area that is well known in Houston. I no longer live in the Houston area, but for my money, they give you great treatment. There is no Ken Ramey and his band of goons can discredit what this hospital had to say.

    I just checked. Memorial-Hermann was the subject of a Lifetime series, “Lifeflight: Trauma Center Houston.” I watched several episodes of the show and it did a good job of showing what the trauma team has to deal with.

  42. Anonymous wrote:

    It is intentionally telling an untruth to harm Billy and Shauna. A lawsuit is in order in my opinion.

    here is the problem. They would deny that us what they are saying. It is said in whispers. These lies work their way into the community and then Shauna keeps being told by the recipients of the whispers, that it is consensual. She feels so helpless in these circumstances. That is why I decided to post these documents.

    For example, we got two comments sent to us from Sandusky Ohio (rather apropos on the Sandusky part). This is where the rapist’s family comes from and it is rumored that he is staying with family in that area. The comments, which were disgusting, accused Billy of it being consensual and accused him, as well, of being homosexual as if being homosexual leads one to want to be raped. But, I digress.

    I posted one of the comments to show that this is the meme that is running through that community. When Shauna met with Ken in 2013, He allegedly urged her to ask Billy if he was lying. This is after the visit to the ER and getting involved in Safe Harbor.

    How does one prove whispers? I think Shauana should consider a lawsuit and I am planning on looking into things when I have a moment.

    The Bible talks of gossip. The control freak pastors interpret this to be people asking questions about budgets, salaries, etc. and discipline folks for doing so. I believe that this is they type of gossip to which the Bible is referring. This is an evil gossip which hurts a mother who has worked her tush off raising her developmentally disables son after her husband walked out on them. Shame on all of them. Picking on a hardworking mother and her son. These are not men-they are wusses.

  43. @ marquis:
    Telling you to shut up was the most egregious act. He pretended it was for the good of the *investigation* and the church. I am so glad you now have a place to publicly declare your situation. And now you can show people to where to find the documents.

  44. Harley wrote:

    There is no Ken Ramey and his band of goons can discredit what this hospital had to say.

    Thank you for speaking to the care that this hospital gives.

  45. dee wrote:

    here is the problem. They would deny that us what they are saying. It is said in whispers. These lies work their way into the community and then Shauna keeps being told by the recipients of the whispers

    And Pastor has full Plausible Deniability.

    It’s only Gossip(TM) when it’s AGAINST Pastor.
    Against enemies of Pastor, it’s Scientology Fair Game Law.

  46. Dee:

    It may be hard to prove if it’s only whispers. But I bet there are emails and all of the church computers and the pastor’s computer would be subject to inspection in discovery.

    Also, the church bulletin that was posted above, in my view, proves the case. There is a request for prayer for the leaders because there is a big lie being told about the church etc. The point is that you can prove slander in situations like this if “code” or unspecific references are used but which everyone knows refer to a certain situation.

    I also believe that there exists at least one current or former member to whom the pastor or some in leadership have said that the rape was consensual.

    Even those people who wrote the awful email to you should be deposed to confirm their level of knowledge, where they got that knowledge etc. If Joe is saying the relationship was consensual, he, also, is subject to repercussions. After having pled guilty, Joe cannot publicly be broadcasting that he was not guilty in order to harm Billy. I don’t know if the juvenile court would be the place to address this or an adult court (don’t know if Joe is 18 yet). But it is unconscionable for a defendant, even a juvenile, to plead guilty to the facts contained in that pleading, and then to go around saying after that plea is entered that the things in the pleading are untrue. There are remedies for that.

    The bottom line is that I believe that the attempted destruction of Shauna’s and Billy’s reputation by church leaders, Joe, and Joe’s family, is something that can be successfully addressed. The issue may be the time, cost and energy of addressing it.

    @ dee:

  47. I think I can clear this up. Ken Ramey and the elders have personally themselves told members and other pastors that this was consensual. I have names of these individuals who billy was slandered to and therefore it’s no longer whispers or gossip. In the words of Dee “calling all lawyers” I doubt many of these people will risk perjury when they have no stake in the game, but ken does. @ marquis:
    Anonymous wrote:

    Dee:

    It may be hard to prove if it’s only whispers. But I bet there are emails and all of the church computers and the pastor’s computer would be subject to inspection in discovery.

    Also, the church bulletin that was posted above, in my view, proves the case. There is a request for prayer for the leaders because there is a big lie being told about the church etc. The point is that you can prove slander in situations like this if “code” or unspecific references are used but which everyone knows refer to a certain situation.

    I also believe that there exists at least one current or former member to whom the pastor or some in leadership have said that the rape was consensual.

    Even those people who wrote the awful email to you should be deposed to confirm their level of knowledge, where they got that knowledge etc. If Joe is saying the relationship was consensual, he, also, is subject to repercussions. After having pled guilty, Joe cannot publicly be broadcasting that he was not guilty in order to harm Billy. I don’t know if the juvenile court would be the place to address this or an adult court (don’t know if Joe is 18 yet). But it is unconscionable for a defendant, even a juvenile, to plead guilty to the facts contained in that pleading, and then to go around saying after that plea is entered that the things in the pleading are untrue. There are remedies for that.

    The bottom line is that I believe that the attempted destruction of Shauna’s and Billy’s reputation by church leaders, Joe, and Joe’s family, is something that can be successfully addressed. The issue may be the time, cost and energy of addressing it.

    @ dee:

  48. Memorial Hermann Hospital Doctors and Staff were Excellent, sensetive, and all out professional when they treated Billy. They showed great concern for Billy and did everything to ensure Billy’s treatment and safety. They brought in a lady from the Womens Crisis Center to be with me and Billy. I also need to Note that Ken Ramey showed up at Hermann Memorial and stayed there before, during, and after Billy’s rape examination. I also need to note that he was told that Joe tore billy and that there had been trauma to Billy’s analysis region!!!! I also need to note that ken ramey was there when it took 5 to 6 people to hold billy down after the rape examination to give him shots for the STD preventatives that you see listed on the medical bill!!! I also held billy while the rape examiner completed the swabbing and she confirmed to me personally that billy was in fact penetrated and torn!!! So ken ramey who was there please explain why you are slandering Billy and making this about sexual preference? Explain to me and everyone here why you are shaming and slandering a child rape victim better yet Lakeside Bible Church members, where are you? I’m hoping you all will hold your pastor and elders accountable and ask these questions yourselves. I’m pleading with you to take a stand and speak up if not for Billy but for your own children. Remember this could have been you, in my place and tour child could have been Billy. Tina wrote:

    Harley wrote:

    Memorial Hermann hospital in Houston is a hospital that has an excellent reputation. Having lived outside of Houston (for 23 yrs), I myself had a doctor that was part of the Memorial hospital. Also, my husband’s uncle used to be on staff as a doctor at one of their hospitals. So there is no question to be had in anyone’s mind that this hospital didn’t know what they are talking about or did the wrong thing. The hospital they went to is in an area that is well known in Houston. I no longer live in the Houston area, but for my money, they give you great treatment. There is no Ken Ramey and his band of goons can discredit what this hospital had to say.

    I just checked. Memorial-Hermann was the subject of a Lifetime series, “Lifeflight: Trauma Center Houston.” I watched several episodes of the show and it did a good job of showing what the trauma team has to deal with.

  49. Dee,

    I’m praying for your family, as is all of TWW, I’m sure.

    This collect from the Book of Common Prayer is written mainly for patients, but it might also bring comfort to others, I think (and hope):

    This is another day, O Lord. I know not what it will bring forth, but make me ready, Lord, for whatever it may be. If I am to stand up, help me to stand bravely. If I am to sit still, help me to sit quietly. If I am to lie low, help me to do it patiently. And if I am to do nothing, let me do it gallantly. Make these words more than words, and give me the Spirit of Jesus. Amen.

  50. marquis wrote:

    So ken ramey who was there please explain why you are slandering Billy and making this about sexual preference?

    Because “HOMOSEXUAL(TM)” disconnects every neuron above the brainstem in the Christianese brain and waves a bright red murder flag in front of what’s left. All Pastor Dear Leader has to do is point at Billy and yell “FAG!” (like that townsman in that Lenny Bruce bit) and all his sheeple will point and bleat “FAAAAAAG!” with him.

    And under the logic of prison gang rape, only the Penetrated on the bottom (Billy) is Homosexual. The Penetrator (Joe) on the top is even More Manly Man. Animal Forced Dominance Display, like all sex is to comp/patrios. Not Man & Woman, not Gay or Straight, but Penetrator & Penetrated (Powerful & Powerless) as it was among the Heathen.

  51. @ marquis:
    It breaks my heart to think of everything Billy has been through. I am so sorry!

    Shame on those who are re-victimizing him by twisting what actually happened.

    Almighty God knows every heart.

  52. Marquis said,

    “Lakeside Bible Church members, where are you? I’m hoping you all will hold your pastor and elders accountable and ask these questions yourselves. I’m pleading with you to take a stand and speak up…”
    +++++++++++++++++++++

    Lakeside Bible Church members, if you have doubts, if something seems off and not right about what Ken Ramey and elders have said and done, gather your gumption and do something about it.

    Stand for something.

  53. @ Anonymous:

    “The bottom line is that I believe that the attempted destruction of Shauna’s and Billy’s reputation by church leaders, Joe, and Joe’s family, is something that can be successfully addressed. The issue may be the time, cost and energy of addressing it.”
    ++++++++++++++++

    perhaps multiple attorneys who do pro bono work, in a tag team kind of way? for Shauna and Billy’s sake, but also for the greater good. indeed.

    to me, this case touches on a lot of the ethical scuzz that isn’t all that uncommon in churchworld. I see this as a big opportunity to bring accountability that has been sorely lacking in Christian-church-pastor-&-elder world to some degree.

  54. anyone have a megaphone who can yell “Calling all pro bono attorneys….. calling all pro bono attorneys….. ethical opportunity is knocking….”

    maybe turning it up to 11, find a bugle, start with reveille,….

  55. Yes. Agreeing wholeheartedly. I have known Shauna since our college days together and her son since birth. I can testify to Shauna’s character and her unwavering honesty. She always told the truth, even to her own harm. I have watched her time and again – compelled by her own conscience and convictions – to speak the truth no matter what. To teach her son to do the same. In these past few years, she truly has been fighting for her son and for the truth, many many times alone and under incredible duress. Her son has admirably followed in her footsteps. They have been like David up against a Goliath, a spiritualized corporation protecting their own interests and pathologies. I believe Lakeside is what Jesus called “white-washed sepulchers”, burying their victims and boat-rockers beneath pressured codes of silence, dismissal, and self-protective agendas. Whatever tombstone they have tried to erect over Shauna and her son, they cannot bury the truth. I echo Shauna’s call for a public apology from Ken Ramey and the Elders and anyone within Lakeside who has perpetuated the spiritual abuse, gossip, and slander of her and her son. @ Melissa:

  56. elastigirl wrote:

    Stand for something.

    Or as novelist Stephen King’s protagonists would say when confronting evil and fighting for the right:

    “…Stand and be true…”

  57. @ Muff Potter:

    I like that, “…Stand and be true…”

    ok, I’ve heard Stephen King’s books are good reads. I need recommendations. Your top 3 Stephen King books, #1 being your favorite.

  58. @elastigirl
    I don’t like horror or suspense novels, but I loved Stephen King’s “The Stand” and “Under the Dome.”

  59. Praying for all the right advocates for Shauna and her son. They are coming. And Dee has been a tremendous advocate on their behalf. @ elastigirl:

  60. Let me be clear right from the get-go: I am not questioning Shauna and Billy’s claim at ALL. This isn’t about “are they telling the truth?” or other such carp.

    I understand the _legal_ ramifications of consensual/non-consensual…but let’s talk Christian morality here: It seems that the leadership and at least some people at Lakeside Bible Church are hiding behind the idea that what happened was “consensual.

    Let me ask this: WHY IS THAT OK???? Whether or not it was consensual, this is gross misconduct on the part of _anyone_ who proclaims Christ.

    Don’t conflate what is “legal” with what is “moral.” And remember that it is perfectly legal to sit on your hands and leave Shauna and Billy to twist. But it is exceedingly immoral…that includes both the leadership and the laity of Lakeside Bible Church and anyone who can do anything to stop this from ever, ever happening again.

  61. PaJo wrote:

    Don’t conflate what is “legal” with what is “moral.” And remember that it is perfectly legal to sit on your hands and leave Shauna and Billy to twist. But it is exceedingly immoral…

    A couple years ago in local news, when one entire law firm got disbarred for shady business practices (shaking down small businesses who couldn’t afford lawyers with an OSHA-compliance protection racket), their defense was “But Everything We Did Was LEGAL!!!!!”

    May have been — I don’t remember any criminal charges coming out of it — but they all got disbarred by the Bar Association. Every lawyer in the firm.

  62. @ Leila:
    I actually don’t read much Steven King (at my age, I’m too busy running from the Langoliers), but my faves are his two NON-fiction books: Danse Macabre (about the horror genre in general) and On Writing (half autobiography, half creative writing textbook).

  63. Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

    PaJo wrote:
    Don’t conflate what is “legal” with what is “moral.” And remember that it is perfectly legal to sit on your hands and leave Shauna and Billy to twist. But it is exceedingly immoral…
    A couple years ago in local news, when one entire law firm got disbarred for shady business practices (shaking down small businesses who couldn’t afford lawyers with an OSHA-compliance protection racket), their defense was “But Everything We Did Was LEGAL!!!!!”
    May have been — I don’t remember any criminal charges coming out of it — but they all got disbarred by the Bar Association. Every lawyer in the firm.

    So maybe it’s pretty sad that boards of lawyers act more decently than boards of elders.

  64. siteseer wrote:

    I hope those people really do pray that their pastor and elders are filled with truth. That would be a step in the right direction.

    It is always good to pray but I’d rather pray for a successful lawsuit that would bankrupt them and shut them down. Such an outcome is likely to be the only hope this “pastor” and his “Elders” have, to be dragged kicking and screaming to the truth.

    But right now I don’t give a rat’s behind for these leaders. My concern is for Shauna and Billy. It is also for what other unspeakable evil these leaders will accomplish if they stay in power. Pray for those still attending the church, pray they leave, whether for good reason or ill, just leave and let the corrupt institution they leave behind collapse.

  65. marquis wrote:

    Yes! and you can imagine my astonishment the day Ken told me Joe got saved when I told him he finally after months of lying admitted to raping Billy

    My ex-NeoCal pastors/elders (senior pastor is also a graduate of John MacArthur’s The Master’s Seminary) used this same cover to bring their friend a Megan’s List sex offender/child pornographer to church, gave him church membership, put him in a position of a leadership and trust, and gave him access to all church activities (including where unsuspecting parents brought their children), and invited him to volunteer at a 5-day summer basketball camp for children.

    My ex-pastors/elders said that their friend the sex offender had “come to Jesus”.

    Sex crimes experts around the world have criticized my ex-church pastors/elders saying that a sex offender should NEVER be given this kind of access and should be ministered to separately from the regular congregation.

    Godly women with Ph.D.’s weren’t permitted to serve in any leadership position or teaching position at my ex-NeoCal church (which rents from the Seventh Day Adventists on Fremont Ave. in Sunnyvale, CA), but a Megan’s List sex offender is ushered to the front of the line!

  66. Shauna & Billy, I am absolutely shocked that it has had to come to this to get the ‘church’ to acknowledge their ridiculous appalling lies, particularly when these documents would have been available to the ‘Leaders’ all along.

    If they lie about something so utterly appalling & utterly important why would anyone believe a word they say about the ‘truth’ of the Gospel? Do they not see how this does not add up? Do they think they’re lying to protect the truth?

    Billy, you’ve been heard by so many people who care that this happened to you. It never should have.

  67. @ marquis:

    Here is the problem that I think ties you, me and so many others in their horrific stories. When you are on the receiving end of something evil you are hurting and in pain. What helps people heal is when the person, organization, etc.. admits they were wrong and works to undo the damage. People long to hear the words “I was wrong, we screwed up…” etc… On cases that are severe it also helps to see action that reinforces that behavior that shows you they are indeed wrong. In other situations I think prosecution is key as the system sends a message to the victim and the perpetrator that such behavior is not acceptable. But I think what you, me, many of the families in the Pennsylvania Evangelical Free situation have been clamoring to hear is someone own their mistakes and say “I am sure” and work to undo the damage or accept the responsibility. From Joe, to an Air Force Captain I knew from Redeemer Arlington, Ken Ramey, C.J. Mahaney, Mark Dever, Mark Driscoll, etc…Christians don’t say they are sorry and work to undo the damage. That is one of the reasons why evangelical Christianity is so sick today.

    Chuck Colson engaged in illegal activity and accepted prison as a part of his corruption from Watergate. Why can’t many of these people act in a responsible manner?

    https://wonderingeagle.wordpress.com/2016/01/16/how-mistakes-are-opportunities-why-dont-evangelical-christians-say-they-are-sorry-why-dont-evangelicals-repent-and-own-their-mistakes-today/

  68. Eagle wrote:

    What helps people heal is when the person, organization, etc.. admits they were wrong and works to undo the damage. People long to hear the words “I was wrong, we screwed up…” etc… On cases that are severe it also helps to see action that reinforces that behavior that shows you they are indeed wrong. In other situations I think prosecution is key as the system sends a message to the victim and the perpetrator that such behavior is not acceptable. But I think what you, me, many of the families in the Pennsylvania Evangelical Free situation have been clamoring to hear is someone own their mistakes and say “I am sure” and work to undo the damage or accept the responsibility.

    Good point, Eagle. And apologies by an organization also reduce litigation.
    http://www.calbarjournal.com/July2010/TopHeadlines/TH1.aspx

  69. PaJo wrote:

    Don’t conflate what is “legal” with what is “moral

    When it comes to these Jesus Charlatans the morality ship left the harbor years ago. They think they get to define situational morality.

    They pay attention to “lawsuit”. They are all about public perceptions and money. Discovery is not good for public perceptions.

  70. This was a horrible crime committed against this boy. How brave the mother and the boy. I have to wonder if the parents of the perpetrator and the church leadership knew beforehand that the rapist had behavior beforehand that included other criminal behavior or definite serious problems. My guess would be yes.

  71. Velour wrote:

    Godly women with Ph.D.’s weren’t permitted to serve in any leadership position or teaching position at my ex-NeoCal church (which rents from the Seventh Day Adventists on Fremont Ave. in Sunnyvale, CA), but a Megan’s List sex offender is ushered to the front of the line!

    Megan’s List Sex Offender had a PENIS, and that’s all that matters.

  72. Thank you soooo muchfor your support. Maybe calls to the church leaving messeges asking for ken to vindicate billy will be effective! !!@ marquis:
    Beakerj wrote:

    Shauna & Billy, I am absolutely shocked that it has had to come to this to get the ‘church’ to acknowledge their ridiculous appalling lies, particularly when these documents would have been available to the ‘Leaders’ all along.

    If they lie about something so utterly appalling & utterly important why would anyone believe a word they say about the ‘truth’ of the Gospel? Do they not see how this does not add up? Do they think they’re lying to protect the truth?

    Billy, you’ve been heard by so many people who care that this happened to you. It never should have.

  73. Billy, Thank you for allowing your record to be released. My hope is other readers will recognize their own abuse and ask for help.
    Sex, straight or gay is generally a mutual experience of both giving and taking . Joe’s whole MO was to dominate, shame and threaten his victim. The sexual activities described in the report are very one-sided. Joe used an unwilling victim to exercise his sexual power. He was probably hoping Billy would carry too much shame to tell anyone. Young teens are mortified to to repeat rape. Afraid friends will find out and tease them.
    Billy you are the exceptional hero who has the honor and strength to not back down from a bully. You represent all the young people who don’t have the courage to face their own rapist.
    I must say your pastors and elders must be some of the most ignorant human beings in the world! If they try to speak to you, ask each one of them, this, ” Before I answer, I need to ask, have you ever had some guy stick his c**k in your a**?” Yes, I know these are vulgar and offensive words. What is reprehensible is that the words that describe your rape will be more offensive to their ears that the actual rape. Yep, you are young, but have more courage in your little finger than these men have in their whole bodies!
    Thank you Shauna for raising an amazing son!

  74. From billy thank u so much for supporting me and u know what I am happy they are picking on me because u know what they say I am a man but what it takes to be a man is to be ur self not picking on other s not being the cause of a fight and there have been time s that I have been put down but guss what I pulled my self out of the dirt and grew on my own and a note to ken shut up or step up because I am a Yong man that knows more than u and was tought right by my alsome mom marquis wrote:

    Now let’s see Ken Ramey explain medical records (sexual assault /rape) , Joe’s guilty plea, Billy’s ambulance ride!!!! The night billy was raped by Joe

    @ Ann:

  75. Yes they knew he had a pornography problem. He also almost went fist to fist with his stepfather (I heard) in their grow group. They had to separate them. The mother when she walked in that night of the assault never defended joe just said to me “whatever has to happen happens”. @ marquis:
    BC wrote:

    This was a horrible crime committed against this boy. How brave the mother and the boy. I have to wonder if the parents of the perpetrator and the church leadership knew beforehand that the rapist had behavior beforehand that included other criminal behavior or definite serious problems. My guess would be yes.

  76. marquis wrote:

    From billy thank u so much for supporting me and u know what I am happy they are picking on me because u know what they say I am a man but what it takes to be a man is to be ur self not picking on other s not being the cause of a fight and there have been time s that I have been put down but guss what I pulled my self out of the dirt and grew on my own and a note to ken shut up or step up because I am a Yong man that knows more than u and was tought right by my alsome mom marquis wrote:
    Now let’s see Ken Ramey explain medical records (sexual assault /rape) , Joe’s guilty plea, Billy’s ambulance ride!!!! The night billy was raped by Joe
    @ Ann:

    Hey Billy. Unlike Ken Ramey, you know the difference between right and wrong, and again unlike Ramey, you’ve been doing what is right. I admire you and your mom.

  77. marquis wrote:

    Where is the free thr w ad?

    It’s really called ‘Open Discussion’ on TWW’s home page. There’s a ‘click here’ right underneath it.

  78. @ marquis:
    You’re more than a young man, Billy. You’re a very good, honest, brave, young man. You have a lot to deal with, but I think you have your head on straight, and I think you are going to do just fine! And I agree – you do have an awesome mom, and I’ll betcha she’s very proud of you!
    I truly do hope and pray that God will bless you and your mom so that you both may heal, have the means to live comfortably, be happy, and stay close to Him.

  79. Thank you sam, I had a chance to get to know this member and what beautiful people they are. Sam wrote:

    I was a member. I am shocked that this happened two years ago! I had a child in the youth program. I am utterly shocked that this is how I find out.

    Anyone who has lived the nightmare of rape can never understand this or accept it. My prayers are with you both. I truly grieve for your son. He is blessed to have a mom like you. Thank you for standing up for your son and not backing down.

  80. @ marquis:
    Billy

    You are one great person. Your strength and transparency has been an inspiration to me. Thank you for commenting here.

  81. Ann wrote:

    What is reprehensible is that the words that describe your rape will be more offensive to their ears that the actual rape.

    Well said. Billy understands the pain associated with what happened to him. This pain was denied by the ones who were supposed to show Christ’s love to him.

  82. PaJo wrote:

    at least some people at Lakeside Bible Church are hiding behind the idea that what happened was “consensual.
    Let me ask this: WHY IS THAT OK???? Whethe

    Well said.

  83. BC wrote:

    I have to wonder if the parents of the perpetrator and the church leadership knew beforehand that the rapist had behavior beforehand that included other criminal behavior or definite serious problems. My guess would be yes.

    I have thought the same thing.

  84. Sunny wrote:

    I echo Shauna’s call for a public apology from Ken Ramey and the Elders and anyone within Lakeside who has perpetuated the spiritual abuse, gossip, and slander of her and her son

    Thank you for this wonderful comment.

  85. Friend wrote:

    I’m praying for your family, as is all of TWW, I’m sure.

    Thank you for your lovely comment. I have to admit that I did not expect all three of the folks in my life to become so dependent and so sick at the same time. Pray that I love well even when I am stretched.

  86. marquis wrote:

    I also need to Note that Ken Ramey showed up at Hermann Memorial and stayed there before, during, and after Billy’s rape examination. I also need to note that he was told that Joe tore billy and that there had been trauma to Billy’s analysis region!!!! I also need to note that ken ramey was there when it took 5 to 6 people to hold billy down after the rape examination to give him shots for the STD preventatives that you see listed on the medical bill!!! I also held billy while the rape examiner completed the swabbing and she confirmed to me personally that billy was in fact penetrated and torn!!!

    How could any of those people at LBC and especially the pastors/Elders (with a capital E) ignore the pain that Billy went through? What is wrong with them?

  87. Anonymous wrote:

    The bottom line is that I believe that the attempted destruction of Shauna’s and Billy’s reputation by church leaders, Joe, and Joe’s family, is something that can be successfully addressed. The issue may be the time, cost and energy of addressing it.

    Thank you. I am going to get on the stick with this. You thoughts have helped me realize that this should be explored.

  88. dee wrote:

    Thank you for your lovely comment. I have to admit that I did not expect all three of the folks in my life to become so dependent and so sick at the same time. Pray that I love well even when I am stretched.

    Dee, I hope your children have the opportunities to spend some quality time with the ill grandparents, and have done so in the last when they were healthy. It’s a real blessing to be able to make memories.
    And, hey, the truth is, you are stretched because you love well.

  89. I am still stuck with a,deep rooted hole in my heart asking this same question. When billy and I began attending LBC ken was kind, open, and it was a very welcoming place. Lots of wonderful people. I need to share with you just how agregious this is to Billy and what kens response and accusations have done to my son. Billy was 8 years old when he met ken. According to Billy from the first time he met ken, ken hung the moon foe billy. Every Sunday and wednesday we attended before and after service billy would run to Ken and throw his arms around him. He would be anxious to get to church because he wanted to see ken and some of the men who were kind and caring to Billy. My ex husband is not in his sons life and hasn’t been for years. This was very difficult for billy. Now I am not here to bash my ex husband as he is billy’s father and he was someone who took part in giving me such a beautiful boy. I have nothing negative to say about him because if he ever comes to know my Savior I know that he will find billy and try to make it right. I want billy to be open to this and know that but for this man there would be no billy. With this said a huge deep rooted hole has been in billy’s heart over not having his father. Ken and these men filled some of this sadness that billy had and it brought joy to my son to see ken and even get a few words of love and encouragement from ken and the elders/Randy Swearingen. When his rape happened not one of them ever hugged billy ,told him it wasn’t his,fault, nor did they ever lay hands on him and pray over him. Billy felt this! He never got a call or any affirmation that billy did nothing wrong. Instead they questioned, accused, and made assumptions, and even have called billy a lier and a homosexual. Billy told me one day ” mom, they are just like my dad they left me to”! Need I say more? Where are you men of Courage”? You love these movies show them at church you preach fatherhood and being men and leaders! What I see is fear, trembling, and weakness the moment your perfect community is rocked with sexual abuse or any other abuse and you prefer to protect yourselves while throwing billy to the street!!!! These are not the men I thought I had come to know. This is not leadership and I would dare say they are cowards to not hug billy and affirm him and deprive billy of the love they once gave him. Dee thank you for everything in the midst of your trials. Thank you all who are loving billy. @ marquis:
    dee wrote:

    marquis wrote:

    I also need to Note that Ken Ramey showed up at Hermann Memorial and stayed there before, during, and after Billy’s rape examination. I also need to note that he was told that Joe tore billy and that there had been trauma to Billy’s analysis region!!!! I also need to note that ken ramey was there when it took 5 to 6 people to hold billy down after the rape examination to give him shots for the STD preventatives that you see listed on the medical bill!!! I also held billy while the rape examiner completed the swabbing and she confirmed to me personally that billy was in fact penetrated and torn!!!

    How could any of those people at LBC and especially the pastors/Elders (with a capital E) ignore the pain that Billy went through? What is wrong with them?

  90. @ dee:

    dee — perhaps multiple attorneys who do pro bono work, in a tag team kind of way? for Shauna and Billy’s sake, but also for the greater good. indeed.

    to me, this case touches on a lot of the ethical scuzz that isn’t all that uncommon in churchworld. I see this as a big opportunity to bring accountability that has been sorely lacking in Christian-church-pastor-&-elder world to some degree.

    I can’t help but think that there are attorneys of conscience out there who would see the opportunity here.

  91. Marquis and Billy,

    The only explanation I can imagine is that these are not good men. Sadly.
    A good man would have given the hugs, the support, the love.
    And the reality that these men, who appeared to be good but are in fact evil, is shocking and hard to reconcile.

    It is sad to acknowledge because they appeared to be good and true, when, in fact, by their actions, they have proven to be wolves who sought to devour you.

    You can’t understand it because there is no reasonable explanation. We expect a brother in the Lord to be Godly. We expect a Pastor to be Godly. What you’ve experienced is not that and your mind and heart are trying to fit what should have happened into the reality of what really did happen.

    There is no righteous explanation. It is simply an evil reality without a good excuse,

    You may never be able to answer that question. I have questions like this on my heart from things that happened to us by a “pastor” who all eared to be our friend but who set out to destroy us and our business for his personal gain. We can understand when someone who is a non-believer might try this (not that it is excusable) but when someone who portrayed themself as our brother, our friend, our confidant does it. It boggles the mind and doesn’t make sense and we continue to suffer because we continue to try to make sense of it. The sooner we come to realize that we may never make sense of it, the better off we are. It is sad, unrighteous, confusing, and angering.

    If I would give you something to help, try not to dwell on those thoughts, and pray for your enemy that they would come to know Truth and become repentant. And read the Book of Esther. Hamen desired exaltation for himself and destruction for Mordechai. But God intervened and turned the events around so that Mordechai became exalted and Hamen was destroyed. So be it for you, Marquis and Billy.

  92. Ann wrote:

    What is reprehensible is that the words that describe your rape will be more offensive to their ears that the actual rape

    This is the sad truth & it is another form of obscenity.Remnant wrote:

    The only explanation I can imagine is that these are not good men. Sadly.

    They are another fine example of those whose religion makes them very very religious, instead of very very good & loving.

  93. dee wrote:

    How does one prove whispers?

    One proves whispers by getting someone to testify in a court of law that they heard them. That’s evidence, which can be taken as proof by a jury. Students say “But isn’t that ‘he said-she said’?” and I answer “Of course it is, he said-she said is the foundation of most evidence, it’s only in the movies that the double doors at the back of the courtroom swing dramatically open and the entrant shouts “Here is it, the smoking gun!” as the crowd “Oohs”. Oral testimony is typically the bulk of what goes to “proving up” a case.

    Should someone close to the inner core get jumpy upon being served a summons and complaint and decides they’re not going to take one with the team and is willing to testify that they heard said whispers starting at the top (because unlike the adage, there is no true honor among thieves), then you start building evidence and a good case. You have a sympathetic plaintiff, reputational and monetary damages, and a deep pocket defendant. You also have one where there appears to be no meaningful Christianity among the potential defendants and no meaningful way of addressing disputes fairly within the fellowship–otherwise, it would never have come to this–thus any biblical prohibition against suing a brother flies out the window.

    I ca imagine some attorney would be glad to take this case on a contingent fee basis, but Shauna needs to be aware that at least for her losses, the statute of limitations is ticking, and I don’t know what the limit is in Texas.

  94. marquis wrote:

    According to Billy from the first time he met ken, ken hung the moon foe billy. Every Sunday and wednesday we attended before and after service billy would run to Ken and throw his arms around him. He would be anxious to get to church because he wanted to see ken and some of the men who were kind and caring to Billy…When his rape happened not one of them ever hugged billy ,told him it wasn’t his,fault, nor did they ever lay hands on him and pray over him.
    How could any of those people at LBC and especially the pastors/Elders (with a capital E) ignore the pain that Billy went through? What is wrong with them?

    You never know people based on their public persona, because most people know that it serves them to be nice in public, a hug for public consumption builds a church–“Isn’t Pastor Ken great!” You only know someone when they’re faced with a situation in which they stand to gain nothing by being nice to you. Seems to me when it ceased to serve Ken’s interests to be nice to Billy, you got to see the real Ken.

  95. The statute of limitations is good right now I believe. @ marquis:
    Law Prof wrote:

    dee wrote:

    How does one prove whispers?

    One proves whispers by getting someone to testify in a court of law that they heard them. That’s evidence, which can be taken as proof by a jury. Students say “But isn’t that ‘he said-she said’?” and I answer “Of course it is, he said-she said is the foundation of most evidence, it’s only in the movies that the double doors at the back of the courtroom swing dramatically open and the entrant shouts “Here is it, the smoking gun!” as the crowd “Oohs”. Oral testimony is typically the bulk of what goes to “proving up” a case.

    Should someone close to the inner core get jumpy upon being served a summons and complaint and decides they’re not going to take one with the team and is willing to testify that they heard said whispers starting at the top (because unlike the adage, there is no true honor among thieves), then you start building evidence and a good case. You have a sympathetic plaintiff, reputational and monetary damages, and a deep pocket defendant. You also have one where there appears to be no meaningful Christianity among the potential defendants and no meaningful way of addressing disputes fairly within the fellowship–otherwise, it would never have come to this–thus any biblical prohibition against suing a brother flies out the window.

    I ca imagine some attorney would be glad to take this case on a contingent fee basis, but Shauna needs to be aware that at least for her losses, the statute of limitations is ticking, and I don’t know what the limit is in Texas.

  96. @ Law Prof:

    “I ca imagine some attorney would be glad to take this case on a contingent fee basis…”
    +++++++++++++++++

    if I were to lend a hand to the cause, collect all data available on TWW, sort of ‘shop the case around’ to attorneys who seem to have an interest in these areas of life & society, do you have any tips on how to break the ice? how to get their attention? how to introduce it, & present it all?

  97. elastigirl wrote:

    if I were to lend a hand to the cause, collect all data available on TWW, sort of ‘shop the case around’ to attorneys who seem to have an interest in these areas of life & society, do you have any tips on how to break the ice? how to get their attention? how to introduce it, & present it all?

    Never thought about the marketing of a case to an attorney, always thought about it the other way, lawyers marketing themselves to clients. But if Shauna wants to take this the next step, she should look in http://www.martindale.com for an attorney, find one who handles personal injury and is AV rated, then go see if they’ll handle it on a contingent fee basis. Defamation is not the easiest sort of case to pursue, though, but in this case it looks like there might be some real damages.

  98. @LawProf & @elastigirl,

    There are some TX. law offices that specialize in sexual abuse lawsuits. I sent a private message on Twitter to an attorney in the Northwest who specializes in sex abuse litigation in the western state and asked for referrals to TX attorneys.

    I will email any information to Dee and Deb to pass on to Shauna.

  99. Hi elastigirl your so kind. Trust me when I say Dee is on it!

    Never thought about the marketing of a case to an attorney, always thought about it the other way, lawyers marketing themselves to clients. But if Shauna wants to take this the next step, she should look in http://www.martindale.com for an attorney, find one who handles personal injury and is AV rated, then go see if they’ll handle it on a contingent fee basis. Defamation is not the easiest sort of case to pursue, though, but in this case it looks like there might be some real damages.

  100. @ marquis:

    that’s great — Dee, how can I help you? in a long-distance sort of way? i’m great at organizing data, i can write, i don’t mind cold-calling…..

  101. @ Law Prof:

    thanks, law prof. let’s say there were several attorneys wanting to represent her, all on this contingency basis. on what basis would she choose?

    -success rate in church lawsuits?
    -can’t think of any other criteria

  102. marquis wrote:

    I am still stuck with a,deep rooted hole in my heart asking this same question. When billy and I began attending LBC ken was kind, open, and it was a very welcoming place. Lots of wonderful people. I need to share with you just how agregious this is to Billy and what kens response and accusations have done to my son. Billy was 8 years old when he met ken. According to Billy from the first time he met ken, ken hung the moon foe billy. Every Sunday and wednesday we attended before and after service billy would run to Ken and throw his arms around him. He would be anxious to get to church because he wanted to see ken and some of the men who were kind and caring to Billy. My ex husband is not in his sons life and hasn’t been for years. This was very difficult for billy. Now I am not here to bash my ex husband as he is billy’s father and he was someone who took part in giving me such a beautiful boy. I have nothing negative to say about him because if he ever comes to know my Savior I know that he will find billy and try to make it right. I want billy to be open to this and know that but for this man there would be no billy. With this said a huge deep rooted hole has been in billy’s heart over not having his father. Ken and these men filled some of this sadness that billy had and it brought joy to my son to see ken and even get a few words of love and encouragement from ken and the elders/Randy Swearingen. When his rape happened not one of them ever hugged billy ,told him it wasn’t his,fault, nor did they ever lay hands on him and pray over him. Billy felt this! He never got a call or any affirmation that billy did nothing wrong. Instead they questioned, accused, and made assumptions, and even have called billy a lier and a homosexual. Billy told me one day ” mom, they are just like my dad they left me to”! Need I say more? Where are you men of Courage”? You love these movies show them at church you preach fatherhood and being men and leaders! What I see is fear, trembling, and weakness the moment your perfect community is rocked with sexual abuse or any other abuse and you prefer to protect yourselves while throwing billy to the street!!!! These are not the men I thought I had come to know. This is not leadership and I would dare say they are cowards to not hug billy and affirm him and deprive billy of the love they once gave him. Dee thank you for everything in the midst of your trials. Thank you all who are loving billy.

    Oh my gosh. I have tears streaming reading this. I am so sorry, Billy. I am so sorry these men let you down so badly. While they are concentrating on the things they think are important but aren’t, they are unaware of the things that are important, of the true ministry they could have. If only the church would learn!

  103. @ Law Prof:

    law prof — let me rephrase: if someone were to ‘shop the case around’, aside from the contingency thing, any tips on what criteria to look for in an attorney?

  104. Pastor Ken Ramey, the pastors/elders at his TX church, and all other adults at Lakeside Bible Church in Texas are MANDATORY child abuse reporters under Texas law. To NOT do so is a crime under Texas law that they can be arrested, prosecuted, and land in jail for as well as be fined.

    https://www.smu.edu/ola/BriefingPapers/DutytoReportSuspectedChildAbuseintheStateofTexas

    There are other issues here: negligence, emotional distress, intentional infliction of emotional distress, etc. Additionally, obstruction of justice.

  105. marquis wrote:

    I’m asking all church members former and current at LBC to contact the church. If you support Billy if you believe Billy now tell Ken Ramey! Ask him to stop slandering Billy and to publically apologize to my son for the malicious, factious, slanderous statements he has made about Billy since the rape occurred and he began his assault on Billy with his covering this up and sweeping it under the rug while trying to silence the victims! I’m calling all members to hold Ken and the Elders accountable as they seem to have no problem preaching and forcing accountability on LBC members. Billy and I lost our church, friends, my work, and Billy’s life changed forever that night. I could have stayed silent just to keep everything but not without comprise. I could have went followed kens demands for silence his advice in denying Billy care through safe harbor, his asking me to stay away from the investigation and not contact the district attorney when court orders were violated. Instead we choose healing, we chose to nix everything for the truth and stand up. There has been sacrifice that has come with a cost. I’m asking all LBC members what are you willing to sacrifice? Will you demand a wrong to be made right? Or will your silence become deafening? Are you willing to take any heat for standing up for me and billy, because what if it was your family, your children? Others have sacrificed much ( SGM Survivors ) for the sake of the truth and their children. Some have lost more. What is Christ calling you to do and where are the Men the protectors those who should be guarding the weak, the vulnerable, the children, the women? Maybe Dee’s title is appropriate to this post.

    You are one BRAVE woman, Marquis! I hope and pray that these church members hear your reasonable plea and hold Ramey and the elders responsible for their reckless and heartless behavior.

  106. marquis wrote:

    It needs to be noted that no child under the age 14 can not give consent. This is in every state and certainly Texas Law!

    They outright reject the law when it doesn’t suit them or fit their narrative. They must have taken their playbook from Doug Wilson.

  107. I believe that a defamation suit could be filed against the pastor and elders (neither he nor they are deserving of a capital letter!) for a false statement that has damaged this child, his mother, both psychologically, socially and financially. I am willing to research to see if an appropriate attorney can be identified in that county, because that would be more cost effective, and I can inquire about a pro bono or contingency fee arrangement.

    Dee, I need real names and the criminal cause number. You can send them by email.

  108. BTW, with a knife to one’s throat, there is no such thing as consent, regardless of the age of the victim. And the age also makes consent impossible. But the pastor and elders have consented to the demeaning of a child with false claims and should be held to account.

  109. Marquis & Billy
    Our God is Father to the fatherless and He is Father to you. When people fail you our Lord will never fails you.

  110. It does not surprise me that LBC members have not posted anything yet. They are probably trying to process how many lies have been told.
    Then again,I just found out about this….. I’m always the last to know.

  111. According to billy he felt the object in his back when joe lured him to the back closet by telling him he wanted to show him something. Billy said that when he saw that Joe was showing him a dead scorpion he was familiar with those as they were very common in that house. Billy shared that when he turned around to leave joe pushed billy to the floor. At this point billy felt something hard being pressed up to his back and then to his throat. Billy could not see the object he just felt it. Billy told me that Joe told him that he will WASTE him if he screams and didn’t do what joe said. I later found out months later that Joe had also threatened to kill me if billy said anything. This rape was violent to the core. When I interrupted the rape I pulled billy out of the room. I told billy that it would be ok and that he needed to tell me what happened. Billy began to cry and told me over and over that he didn’t want to do it that he was scared. Billy began to cry for his dog, his cat Johnny , and he cried for his fish Jake. Billy wanted his animals because he was scared to him they were comfort and safety. I held billy and cried with him. I then asked billy ” are you hurting down there”? I don’t know why I asked bit I was concerned that he was hurting. My son told me ” Mom it hurt but it only lasted for 30 seconds. I asked billy ” How do you know it lasted for 30 seconds”? Billy said, ” because I counted the whole time”! At this point what I thought I knew when I banged on that door became reality I was was sick, the pain was almost unbareable. Joe attempted to try to explain and I calmly instructed joe to get out of the house because he needed to get away from me. I told joe ” Go wait for your mother! I don’t want to hurt you get out of the house!!! All I could think about was getting him away from Billy and going to my son and holding him. He was so scared and crying. We held each other and cried until finally when the police arrived. This is important to share because as you have seen Ken paints his own picture of my child. His perpetrator in another post has told others I stalked him and that my son participated. He apparently got nothing from being put on probation or going through the sex offender program. Ken Ramey, the leaders of this church showed joe how to be a better lier and to not take responsibility for what he did to billy. Clearly Joe is deluded as are those who lie for him. Billy suffered greatly that night and I’m amazed at how well he is doing two years later. Billy went through a violent rape , to the hospital where essentially he was raped again with the assault exam ( this was necessary ), to having several nurses and the doctor hold billy down to administer STD preventatives (shots), to coming home and essentially being called a lier and homosexual by these men at LBC along with his perpetrator and Joe’s parents!!! I was told recently by a church member that I’m angry and that she is concerned about my anger . Your darn right I’m angry because after seeing my son go through all that and more ken ramey along with the leadership have the audicity to turn this into a lifestyle preference!!!! This man is out of his mind to think that I wouldn’t be livid over him slandering billy. I’m giving small bits of events because I don’t think anyone could handle the crazy with these men. I am sharing this because I want others at LBC to know the truth and I believe by transparent it will give others a close look at what the agendas of churches look like when they are desperate to hide anything that they believe disrupts money and their church attendance. We all know that it starts with the money. I am now saying it out loud and therefore billy’s rape in Kens eyes threatened his world. The readers here are soon going to have a front row seat to something that I have given to Dee to post. I released it for the purpose of exposing ken ramey and the leadership it’s so that others will know what this particular thing looks like and can know when to run as soon as you see. @ marquis:
    An Attorney wrote:

    BTW, with a knife to one’s throat, there is no such thing as consent, regardless of the age of the victim. And the age also makes consent impossible. But the pastor and elders have consented to the demeaning of a child with false claims and should be held to account.

  112. By the way ken has a secret sermon. Apparently no one can listen to his sermon on Sunday March 6th 2016 unless thet see Marylin Judd (church secretary ) and the sermon can only be listened to at the church! This was confirmed to me by church members who were told this. It should also be noted that Marylin Judd is best friends with Joes mother and that Joe, his mother, and stepfather lived on the Judd ranch until they moved into their home. This lady is the gatekeeper to Ken Ramey and believe me she is the eyes and ears for ken. She will defend ken to the end as I have learned some things about her. This is possibly why they trust her to screen who gets to listen to that sermon I’m guessing of course but so far information has been literally falling into my lap. I hope LBC members are reading ” I will not stop until ken tells the truth and recants his lies about Billy!!! My son deserves justice and so far the city of conroe and the state of Texas gave that to billy but ken snatched it and slanders billy to this day! @ marquis:

  113. @ marquis:
    Marquis, one of my writing partners (the burned-out country preacher) also talks about female gatekeepers. In his context, “gatekeeper” is Newspeak for “Queen Bee of Church Ladies”.

    And it looks like Pastor/Dictator is beekeeper of his own personal Hive.

  114. Law Prof wrote:

    You never know people based on their public persona, because most people know that it serves them to be nice in public, a hug for public consumption builds a church–“Isn’t Pastor Ken great!”

    “For Satan himself can transform himself to appear as an Angel of Light.”
    — some Rabbi from Nazareth

    (I grew up with an NPD Sociopath with an Utterly Charming public persona. Who was always thinking twenty chess moves ahead.)

  115. An Attorney wrote:

    I believe that a defamation suit could be filed against the pastor and elders (neither he nor they are deserving of a capital letter!) for a false statement that has damaged this child, his mother, both psychologically, socially and financially. I am willing to research to see if an appropriate attorney can be identified in that county, because that would be more cost effective, and I can inquire about a pro bono or contingency fee arrangement.
    Dee, I need real names and the criminal cause number. You can send them by email.

    Any lawyer out there want to help PASTOR(TM) Ramey’s Street Cred with a little “PERSECUTION(TM)!!!!!”?

  116. I believe your right and there are quite a few of them. @ marquis:
    Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

    @ marquis:
    Marquis, one of my writing partners (the burned-out country preacher) also talks about female gatekeepers. In his context, “gatekeeper” is Newspeak for “Queen Bee of Church Ladies”.

    And it looks like Pastor/Dictator is beekeeper of his own personal Hive.

  117. elastigirl wrote:

    @ Law Prof:
    law prof — let me rephrase: if someone were to ‘shop the case around’, aside from the contingency thing, any tips on what criteria to look for in an attorney?

    As others are posting, an attorney who has experience pursuing sex offenders and the like should be competent to handle a defamation case in that arena. I don’t think there’s such a thing as a n attorney handling defamation cases exclusively, as a specialty. If there is, one could check in the Martindale database.

  118. marquis wrote:

    By the way ken has a secret sermon. Apparently no one can listen to his sermon on Sunday March 6th 2016 unless thet see Marylin Judd (church secretary ) and the sermon can only be listened to at the church!

    This was certainly not a sermon and does not represent God. When Ken explained the privacy of this message everyone should have gotten up and left. This is one deceptive man not worthy of being called a pastor.

  119. marquis wrote:

    Apparently no one can listen to his sermon on Sunday March 6th 2016 unless thet see Marylin Judd (church secretary ) and the sermon can only be listened to at the church! This was confirmed to me by church members who were told this.

    Sounds like a certain preacher is in violation of….

    “What I tell you in the darkness, speak in the light; and what you hear whispered in your ear, proclaim upon the housetops.” – Jesus (Matthew 10:27)

  120. Bridget wrote:

    This was certainly not a sermon and does not represent God. When Ken explained the privacy of this message everyone should have gotten up and left. This is one deceptive man not worthy of being called a pastor

    When my ex-pastors/elders (9Marx/John MacArthur-ite/NeoCal)pulled some nasty church discipline stunt before all, (now ex) church members who were on to them recorded the whole thing are their i-phones. Brilliant. Ditto for secret meetings with the elders in which they would threaten members.

    Finally, besides asking ex-members what took place, there is also (if it enters civil litigation) plaintiff’s attorney can as for it to be produced as evidence (tape) or get a court order (subpoena duces tecum) ordering the person (Ken Ramey to bring it, for example).

  121. You are exactly right! Now I am calling LBC Members to confront Ken Ramey and the elders with a lower case (e) as to why any sermon he does should be kept secret? If this sermon is in any way related directly to me, my son, this blog reporting his rape, the recent emails, comments on this blog relating to me and billy that would fall under “Gossip” if lies are being told contrary to these posted documents then that is “Slander” if ken is continuing with his story that billy was a perpetrator in his own rape!!!! Then it is now up to the men and women in this church body to tell ken and the elders that they need to apologize to Billy and clear his name since they are the ones slandering him! I am asking this church body to practice what has been preached to me and billy for 6 years it is now time to hold them accountable as ken has repeatedly stated in a majority of his sermons! I know because I have them and I have listened to every word a second time and very carefully. @ marquis:
    Bridget wrote:

    marquis wrote:

    By the way ken has a secret sermon. Apparently no one can listen to his sermon on Sunday March 6th 2016 unless thet see Marylin Judd (church secretary ) and the sermon can only be listened to at the church!

    This was certainly not a sermon and does not represent God. When Ken explained the privacy of this message everyone should have gotten up and left. This is one deceptive man not worthy of being called a pastor.

  122. marquis wrote:

    By the way ken has a secret sermon. Apparently no one can listen to his sermon on Sunday March 6th 2016 unless thet see Marylin Judd (church secretary ) and the sermon can only be listened to at the church! This was confirmed to me by church members who were told this. It should also be noted that Marylin Judd is best friends with Joes mother and that Joe, his mother, and stepfather lived on the Judd ranch until they moved into their home. This lady is the gatekeeper to Ken Ramey and believe me she is the eyes and ears for ken. She will defend ken to the end as I have learned some things about her. This is possibly why they trust her to screen who gets to listen to that sermon I’m guessing of course but so far information has been literally falling into my lap. I hope LBC members are reading ” I will not stop until ken tells the truth and recants his lies about Billy!!! My son deserves justice and so far the city of conroe and the state of Texas gave that to billy but ken snatched it and slanders billy to this day! @ marquis:

    Marquis, I don’t think I need to tell you just how disturbing this is. The leader/pastor of the former Christian cult to which I once belonged had a secret Bible study – in the middle of the night, no less. I believe this reveals at attitude of the pastor and elders hunkering down in the bunker, so to speak. They have no intentions of admitting how they wronged Billy and you. I think you would be right in doing all that you can to find justice for Billy, since there is not going to be a public apology forthcoming. Slander and liable are serious infractions meant to harm Billy’s and your reputation all over again. I pray that the both of you will continue to be blessed by compassionate Christians who are willing to give you their support. I pray also that the members in your former church will see the truth of how the two of you have been mistreated, and will be willing to speak out in defense on your behalf. Marquis, the courage of you and your son is an inspiration to me. May many, many blessings come your way!

  123. Thank you Darlene I believe you may be right. If this is their position to hunker down then they better be prepared to hold on tight. The truth is moving forward like a wrecking ball. Members are responding current and former. I can’t say who as I believe there would be repercussions for a lot these people if I give away who. These wonderful Christianns are leaving and making their statement that way. Whatever members choose to do my hope is that it sends a msg. to ken and the elders that they need to apologize to Billy!@ marquis:
    Darlene wrote:

    marquis wrote:

    By the way ken has a secret sermon. Apparently no one can listen to his sermon on Sunday March 6th 2016 unless thet see Marylin Judd (church secretary ) and the sermon can only be listened to at the church! This was confirmed to me by church members who were told this. It should also be noted that Marylin Judd is best friends with Joes mother and that Joe, his mother, and stepfather lived on the Judd ranch until they moved into their home. This lady is the gatekeeper to Ken Ramey and believe me she is the eyes and ears for ken. She will defend ken to the end as I have learned some things about her. This is possibly why they trust her to screen who gets to listen to that sermon I’m guessing of course but so far information has been literally falling into my lap. I hope LBC members are reading ” I will not stop until ken tells the truth and recants his lies about Billy!!! My son deserves justice and so far the city of conroe and the state of Texas gave that to billy but ken snatched it and slanders billy to this day! @ marquis:

    Marquis, I don’t think I need to tell you just how disturbing this is. The leader/pastor of the former Christian cult to which I once belonged had a secret Bible study – in the middle of the night, no less. I believe this reveals at attitude of the pastor and elders hunkering down in the bunker, so to speak. They have no intentions of admitting how they wronged Billy and you. I think you would be right in doing all that you can to find justice for Billy, since there is not going to be a public apology forthcoming. Slander and liable are serious infractions meant to harm Billy’s and your reputation all over again. I pray that the both of you will continue to be blessed by compassionate Christians who are willing to give you their support. I pray also that the members in your former church will see the truth of how the two of you have been mistreated, and will be willing to speak out in defense on your behalf. Marquis, the courage of you and your son is an inspiration to me. May many, many blessings come your way!

  124. @marquis

    I haven’t commented here in years, but I keep reading… I’m *so* sorry for what the two of you have gone through, and it makes me so angry! Nobody should ever have to go through something like this. While abuse has always taken place in all areas of society, those who enable it by protecting the abusers are more evil than the initial abuse authors themselves!! And there is no excuse for it whatsoever!

  125. A very profound quote from the movie ” spotlight ” they say it takes a village to raise a child but it also takesa village to abuse one!@ marquis:
    Monica wrote:

    @marquis

    I haven’t commented here in years, but I keep reading… I’m *so* sorry for what the two of you have gone through, and it makes me so angry! Nobody should ever have to go through something like this. While abuse has always taken place in all areas of society, those who enable it by protecting the abusers are more evil than the initial abuse authors themselves!! And there is no excuse for it whatsoever!

  126. marquis wrote:

    By the way ken has a secret sermon. Apparently no one can listen to his sermon on Sunday March 6th 2016 unless thet see Marylin Judd (church secretary ) and the sermon can only be listened to at the church!

    Inner Mystery time!
    Anyone leaked what the subject was?
    OT III (the R6 Bank/Wall of Fire Engram regarding Galactic Emperor Xenu)?

  127. Darlene wrote:

    marquis wrote:

    It needs to be noted that no child under the age 14 can not give consent. This is in every state and certainly Texas Law!

    They outright reject the law when it doesn’t suit them or fit their narrative. They must have taken their playbook from Doug Wilson.

    Or the opening of Mythbusters:
    “I REJECT YOUR REALITY AND SUBSTITUTE MY OWN!”
    (Only thing is, in the Mythbusters opener it’s said as a joke…)

  128. Law Prof wrote:

    it’s only in the movies that the double doors at the back of the courtroom swing dramatically open and the entrant shouts “Here is it, the smoking gun!” as the crowd “Oohs”.

    Actually, that goes back a little farther than “the movies”. To an attorney and pulp writer named Earl Stanley Gardner (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erle_Stanley_Gardner), best known for his “Perry Mason” series.

    In pulp, one of the basic axioms is The Law of Action: that events will resolve themselves in the most slam-bang action-packed way possible. And that is how you apply the Law of Action to courtroom drama.

  129. Not yet@ marquis:
    Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

    marquis wrote:

    By the way ken has a secret sermon. Apparently no one can listen to his sermon on Sunday March 6th 2016 unless thet see Marylin Judd (church secretary ) and the sermon can only be listened to at the church!

    Inner Mystery time!
    Anyone leaked what the subject was?
    OT III (the R6 Bank/Wall of Fire Engram regarding Galactic Emperor Xenu)?