“If you tell the truth, you don’t have to remember anything.” ― Mark Twain
Yesterday I received an email from a man who chastised me for just about everything on this blog.
You judge unrighteously and speak evil of others . I was closely associated , as a normal church member, ( ed. change of wording with an earlier permutation of Sovereign Grace Ministries) I never was abused nor saw any abuse …. of any kind. People are not perfect–and, neither are churches . However, if you look closely enough, you can find faults with anybody and any church movement.
This man apparently believes that since he didn’t see any sexual abuse while at a church, it must not have happened. So, if he didn’t see Jerry Sandusky molest anyone, does that mean he didn’t? The sad part of this statement is that he didn’t express one bit of concern for those who have suffered, horribly, from sexual abuse as children. He doesn’t care because he didn’t see it. Besides, people aren’t perfect and child sex abuse is just one of those things, right? Kind of like speeding, right? After all, what’s the difference?
He also appears to think that the actions of churches and leaders should be kept private, even if they are sinful, deceptive or possibly illegal. Yet, churches and their leaders can bounce up and down in public, telling people to come and see what they have to offer. They can ask for money in public, advertise their books and sermons in the press and ask us to go to their conferences to learn to be godly like them but we are not allowed to question them and their supposed *godliness* in public. They get to keep it secret.
…I would encourage you folks to apologize , to those you’ve attacked, and, to repent of your on-line gossip ). If you have something against a brother (s), follow the instructions that Jesus gave. Go to them privately, etc. Otherwise, I think you risk suffering the anger of God. He does not condone what y’all are doing.
Finally, he seems to know just what the Holy Spirit has to say about blogs such as ours. He even claims to know what I think. Except, he is wrong, especially about what he says I know.
And, Dee, if you listen to the Holy Spirit, you know that a public forum is not the way to handle this.
Jesus said (Matthew 5:14-16-NIV Bible Gateway) appears to say something different. Our light is to shine before men so they can see our good works and glorify our Father.
14“You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
So what happens when the light which is shining on us appears to show lies and fraud? One of my pastors often says that we, as Christians, should be the first to admit our sins before each other and the world. We kids ourselves if we think that the world doesn’t see our sin and hypocrisy as we pretend to be *holy.* They see us as we are and we need to deal with that fact.
If leaders commit to a public ministry, they should be prepared to be critiqued in public. And, if they are Christians, they should welcome that inspection since, it is presumed, that they would want serious sin to be confronted and dealt with, right? Our lives, churches and ministries should be an open book to the world around us. And that is precisely what is happening as Warren Throckmorton pursues the truth with Gospel for Asia. TWW applauds him for his efforts and stands with him in his pursuit of the truth.
Warren Throckmorton and the Gospel for Asia
Sadly, unlike the person who wrote us, we are aware of far too many serious sins in the church. There are days when I feel that we cannot keep up with all of the ungodly actions that hurt those both within and without the church. That is why TWW is so grateful for Warren Throckmorton. He believes that when churches and mission organizations say they are going to use donations in a certain way, they should do so. Unfortunately, that is not always the case.
Dr Throckmorton has been focusing on the alleged misuse of donated funds by Gospel for Asia along with other concerning activities of the organization.TWW has been remiss in reporting on the controversy surrounding this organization. Over the next week or so, we plan to bring you up to date.
However, since the lawyers have now entered the conflagration, TWW wishes to show our solidarity with Dr Warren Throckmorton who we believe is on the side of the angels, so to speak.
A brief overview of the GFA situation.
In June 2015, Christian Today posted Gospel for Asia fights accusations of financial impropriety, cult-like behaviour by Mark Woods. Here are a few excerpts from that post.
What is GFA?
Gospel for Asia (GFA), the mission organisation founded by KP Yohannan, is regarded as one of the most signicant missionary movements of the late 20th century. Based in Texas, it has a presence in Asian countries including India, Sri Lanka, Myanmar, China and Thailand. It supports more than 50 Bible colleges, founded its own network of congregations – Believers Church – and is active in humanitarian work and education.
What are the financial concerns? They involve smurfing (your new word for the day)
Questions about its financial affairs have been raised by blogger Warren Throckmorton, who has studied publicly available documents detailing GFA’s bank holdings in India. He revealed that GFA was using students and staff to transfer undeclared cash to India, a practice known as “smurfing” which the organisation has now ended. He also posted documents showing large amounts of cash held in GFA and Believers Church bank accounts and queried apparent discrepancies between the amounts sent from the US to India and amounts declared as having been received.
What are the spiritual and organization concerns?
Click on the link in the quote to read the entire letter.
A year ago more than 80 people describing themselves as the ‘GFA Diaspora’ wrote to GFA’s leadership raising questions about some of its practices. Their letter listed five areas of concern, saying that GFA’s leadership
1. practised a false view of spiritual authority, prioritised ministry over family,
2. deceived people to protect the ministry,
3. practised unbiblical ‘shunning’ – cutting off all contact with people under discipline – and
4. discouraged staff involvement in Bible studies and
5. discouraged involvement local churches.
What was the response by GFA?
No surprise. They denied all charges and claimed slander, libel, defamation, blah, blah, blah.
It also accuses the lead author, JD Smith, of choosing to “slander and defame” the organisation and says that he has committed libel.
ECFA boots GFA in October.
Since the above article by ChristianToday, GFA was sacked from ECFA. GFA responded here.
Warren Throckmorton gets threatened by GFA lawyers.
Warren posted Gospel for Asia Issues Threats and Demands Removal of Staff Meeting Audio on November 15.
He explained what had just occurred.
Yesterday afternoon, I received word from the management of Patheos that lawyers for Gospel for Asia demanded the removal of posts with audio of the May 14, 2015 staff meeting in Wills Point, TX. They also wanted the picture of David Carroll in priestly garb sprinkling water around the Wills Point building site taken down.
Here are the posts GFA’s counsel demanded to be removed.
Believers Church in India Gave Nearly 20 Million to Help Gospel for Asia’s New Office Complex
Gospel for Asia Leaders Tell Staff Cash Carrying is Legal but They Won’t Do It Anymore
What is This Gospel for Asia Priest Doing? (Image replaced with a link to the image – the image was freely available to GFA staff)
Well, according to Dr Throckmorton, the GFA counsel was particularly concerned about the audio of a staff meeting and a picture of one of the GFA leaders dressed up in some sort of priestly get up.
What was in the audio? Could it be an admission that the students were carrying cash into India for GFA but everything is okey dokey? Uh oh! Here is one excerpt from the transcript of the audio posted here.
Female staffer: Ok, so the money regarding the students taken over to India, you know we have to carry the money over. How is that audited? Because if I lost my backpack, all that money would have been lost, and that’s money from sponsors and donors. So why is that put in place, and if it was lost, how would you track that?
David Carroll: That’s a good question and actually that was going to be one of the next questions that we answered because someone wrote a very emotional question about that and said why we were endangering students by having them carry the money to India, and I just want to say that for whoever asked the question that I’m sorry we’ve given you, truly sorry that we’ve given you the impression that we were endangering students. A couples things you should know we would never endanger students or anyone else, we’ve had pastors carry money, we’ve had staff carry money, we’re always looking for ways to get money into India because the reality is that it’s getting more difficult to do that, and we are looking for other ways that we’re able to do that. But we checked with our auditors before we ever would allow such a practice. We actually called Bland Garvey, they’re our audit firm and said this is what we’re planning to do, this is what we are intending to do, and they told us how we get it receipted they said it’s completely legal, you’re under all limits, you need to get receipts, there need to be receipts here, there need to be receipts there which Lori has receipts from here. The Indian side also account for that money as received. If you were to lose it, they couldn’t receive it, and in that case, we would say it’s lost basically. We would have to tell the auditors we gave it and it didn’t get to the other side and I’m sure they wouldn’t be very happy, but is it receipted on the other side as received, and accounted for? Yes, it is on the other side of the pond.
So, we have stopped that practice, we feel that it put more emotional burden on people than we realized and then we wanted to and so…
KP Yohannan: It is a perception problem also. Like when I go to Burma and Nepal, I carry quite a lot of travelers checks and get into the country and cash it into local currency and I give it and then the border department, they account for that money in the local Burmese currency or wherever I’ve been to so (?). It’s a legal thing, you cannot carry any more than $5000 and not declare it but when you get India, Nepal, Burma, you can cash it, you can burn it, you can eat it, you can throw it away, you can give it, it is a local currency you are giving it and so receipts are accounted in the book are reported to the government (?) and that is an absolute thing because what I am trying to say, it’s not trying to be under the radar, or illegal smuggling money into the country, nothing like that.
Carroll: We had heard that one explanation you were given was that the tax rate is high, which would indicate that we’re trying to avoid tax on the money and that’s not the case. I’m sorry if that got skewed but that’s not the case. It’s actually reported on the other side legally so we can do everything we’re supposed to do in reporting that money to the Indian government.
Yohannan: But we don’t do that anymore.
Carroll: We’ve stopped the practice.
Danny Yohannan: We are always looking for legal ways to bring resources into the ministry, but also over there we’re trying to be as responsible to even raise funds on that side…
Here is the link to the picture that the GFA lawyers do not want you to see.
Here is one link to the May 14, 2015 staff meeting audio, another link, and another that they do not want you to hear.
I hope the GFA lawyers are aware of the Streisand Effect. You can be sure that we will be tweeting all over the place about the attorneys who are bugging Warren Throckmorton and GFA. TWW admires the careful investigations of Warren Throckmorton and will follow this move by the GFA lawyers very, very carefully.
Enjoy this video of Rev. Yohannan receiving new pastors. Wait, are those dudes kissing his ring??? Now this will make a great tweet.
First?
@ (Done) Just Watching:
You betcha! You are as fast as the camel spider that lives in hot, desert regions. This eight-legged speedster can run across sand at an impressive 30 – 40 mph. http://www.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_fastest_spider_in_the_world
try again,
This is such nonsense.
Nathan the prophet should have confronted King David privately,
Moses should have called a private meeting with Pharoah,
Jonah should have quietly gone to each inhabitant of Ninevah,
Jeremiah should not have publicly confronted the false prophets,
John the baptist should have quietly told King Herod about his sin,
Paul should have kept his confrontation with Peter a secret,
Jesus should have remained silent about the Pharisees.
balderdash
Gospel for Asia must be legit, after all they have “gospel” in their title.
Here’s the latest post I did. Its a response to Jon Bloom at Desiring God writing about Reformation Day. I write about the corruption in Neo-Calvinism and my 95 reasons why we need a new Reformation. Eagle has an open challenge. The first person who nails my 95 thesis to the door of Capital Hill Baptist Church while Mark Dever is preaching will get dinner by Eagle!
https://wonderingeagle.wordpress.com/2015/11/19/jon-bloom-at-desiring-god-writes-on-reformation-day-my-response-to-jon-on-why-we-need-a-new-reformation-and-my-95-reasons/
“Yesterday I received an email from a man who chastised me for just about everything on this blog.”
This is to be expected Dee. Touch not the Lord’s anointed!
“…I would encourage you folks to apologize , to those you’ve attacked, and, to repent of your on-line gossip ). If you have something against a brother (s), follow the instructions that Jesus gave. Go to them privately, etc. Otherwise, I think you risk suffering the anger of God. He does not condone what y’all are doing.”
Apart from the fact that we saw how well this worked for Brent Detwiler in his attempt to correct C.J. Mahaney, I disagree with the interpretation of Dee’s critic regarding Matthew 18; as does D.A. Carson, a man most likely from the same camp as Dee’s critic:
http://themelios.thegospelcoalition.org/article/editorial-on-abusing-matthew-18
Todd Wilhelm wrote:
This reminds me of an episode from the old Star Trek series, the Omega Glory. It was the one concerning a parallel/alternate US history where the US was defeated in the 20th century and a remnant were reading the preamble to the US constitution but as nonsensical gibberish. The words no longer had meaning. Okay, it was likely corny to some, I was only 14 at the time.
I have been following this story since Warren first started reporting on it in late April. The major issues outstanding that were not mentioned here is the fact that somewhere between 1/4 to 1/2 a Billion dollars(!) of donor money has disappeared over the years. It all should have been transferred to GFA’s headquarters in Kerala India but does not show up anywhere on Indian reports. Also it is becoming evident that money that was given by donors for the poor of India for charity and evangelism has instead been used to build a large business empire for the founder: KP Yohannan. These businesses are owned by trusts that have KP’s name on them and his church. Warren has shown that KP controls a vast empire that is part for-profit businesses and part church that he is the head of. Along the way, many lies have been told as GFA has raised well over a Billion dollars since it was formed.
@ Bill M:
If you would care to let me know the documentation – books, pamphlets etc. containing all these examples, I will arrange for my lawyers to stop any further publication of it to protect the privacy of those involved …
It looks like there are two different issues here. One is the monkey business with the money, and the other is what appears to be acculturation in some sort of hierarchical and liturgical form.
The money mess needs cleaned up big time. But as for the other-like the man kneeling for ordination before the bishop’s chair (the fact that the bishop is sitting in the bishop’s chair makes it different from if the bishop were just strolling around in the garden you know), well the question is did they say that they would not do that? Not wear indian style liturgical garments and not have an episcopate and not practice certain rituals? If they did promise to not do that then that also needs addressed. Otherwise perhaps not. I would need more information on that.
Your boy in the email needs to stop trying to be your Holy Spirit, eh? Don’t you already have pastoral authority on your head??
And dudes kneeling in front of seated dudes to receive “blessings” and “kiss the ring” should totally come into fashion in churches over here. Mark Driscoll would lead the way for us all, that prophet, priest, pioneer!
Okay, I am back from taking the g’kids to school and I would like to talk about the other picture-not the ordination but the one with the man in white and standing. It looks like he is blessing the ground (a sacramental apparently) using either water or salt.
Check out the Wiki article ‘Blessed Salt in Christianity’ which also mentions the use of water. I can’t tell by the photo if that is salt or water, but I am thinking salt.
I don’t know but am totally guessing but since India used to be part of the british empire it may be that some anglican practices became part of the culture right along with the english language and this may be what we are seeing going on here.
Let me throw into the picture, before somebody says that this is not evangelical. You do know that The Rt Reverend N T Wright, former Bishop of Durham, defines himself as evangelical. I am thinking we do not need a schoolyard dustup over who gets to define the word evangelical-not when various cultures like this are involved.
okrapod wrote:
Actually, there is a problem with the hierarchical/liturgical stuff, too. The problem is not that it occurs; the problem is that Yohannan is lying about it. He has stated that no one has ever kissed his ring when there is video evidence. Former members of the church say that ring-kissing is taught as a requirement of the church.
As far as dealing with these folks in secret, you soon learn that behind closed doors with them is not safe a safe place. It is an ambush. These types are used to squashing the opposition. It is easy for them to do so in secret with no witnesses. As mentioned above, if it could be done, it would have, internally or otherwise.
No, the best option is to bring it to the light so that those who like the cover of darkness can’t continue to sin and operate as they have been accustomed to, in secret.
In the light, they actually have to deal with it. In the dark, they can keep covering, denying, sweeping things under the rug.
Elizabeth Lee wrote:
That is bad business. Is he also a self-appointed bishop? That would also be bad business. And the money thing, that is bad business.
But the legitimate practice of visual imagery, ritual, symbolism and such-that is not intrinsically bad though of course like everything else there are dangers to watch out for.
From the silly, incoherent e-mail that Dee shared with us:
Well, that’s nice, Mr. Oh-So-Holy, but that doesn’t mean SGM is innocent of wrongdoing. It might simply mean that you’re lucky.
Faults as bad as covering up child sex abuse, obstruction of justice, and forcing a toddler to confront and forgive her abuser? All churches are guilty of those things? Then people should stay away from all churches — they won’t be safe there.
So, you can read God’s mind? Wow… and is He your personal enforcer now? Or just the personal enforcer of your buddies/heroes/gurus? In that case, I don’t want to know Him. I’d rather worship someone who cares about truth more than the reputation of celebrities.
@ Mr. Jesperson:
Welcome to TWW. I plan to write about some of these issues tomorrow. The missing money is deeply concerning to me. I think of all those people who have given their money to help the poor.
@ Todd Wilhelm:
And that is a gospel comment about the use of the word gospel!
Todd Wilhelm wrote:
Many of these folks do not think through the issues involved. It is ridiculous for anyone to believe that church leaders can say whatever they darn well please in public and not be publicly taken to task for it.
I sometimes wonder if this is just naivety or a defense of a scared cow.
Bill M wrote:
Loved that episode. I need to see if there is an excerpt on You Tube. That would make a great video for a post.
Bill M wrote:
Yes, it is nonsense, because if all DEE’s hard work saves even one woman or child from abuse, then DEE has succeeded. I expect those who refuse to have compassion on the victims of abuse and who attack the ones who do . . . these people have more troubles than we can know themselves, and deserve our pity more than our contempt. But I admire DEE and DEB and all the good people who stand up to the bullies, and warn folks about the evil that is out there and the wolves who have no conscience about injuring innocent people on their way to power and control of others, and oh yes, more money, always more money. The greed. May God have mercy. And may God Bless the work of those who watch and warn. We need them. The innocent need them.
I completely support the concept of transparency and “light” (i.e. the work of the Dee’s)
I have been at a public University for 28 years, and I see the first hand the need for transparency. While it is a pain, it is needed. I find it interesting that “evil/worldly/secular/etc” university have more openness and public accountability than so many of these “Churches/leaders/movements” that claim they have the “truth/light/keys to heaven/etc” It you are will to preach to the public that you have the truth, you would be willing to publically be accountable for all that you say and do… period..
P.S.
If in fact the Dee’s are gossiping/slandering as the specific e-mail them said, then the “victims” of the attack by the Dee’s should defend themselves! Again, being in the environment i am in, i have learned to listen to both “sides”. Given the seriousness of many of the allegations on WW, the alleged perps should be publically defending their actions.. somewhere publically…. given many of them are quick to publicly attack others.. and claim their way is the “one true way”
Dee and Deb, I love you both for standing up to the lawyers. It warns the cockles of my cold, cold heart to see the tactics some of us pioneered two decades ago against Scientology still successfully in use.
That said, I can’t believe the GFA people were so naive when they had people smuggling money into India from the US. Seriously, that’s what drug cartels and terrorist groups do. GFA had to know what they were doing was illegal. Ever since I first read about this on Warren’s blog, I couldn’t even believe GFA would do this, because that’s what real honest-to-God criminals do.
Mr. Jesperson wrote:
I’ve heard of similar shenanigans by the godmen of India. When Sathya Sai Baba died in 2011, his home was opened up and inventoried and around $8 million in cash gold and silver was found. This is a guy who claimed he was doing charitable stuff. I am aware of another Indian guru popular in the West who has colleges and a medical school and similar financial shenanigans have been reported. (I’m not saying who this is because this guru has followers who give me the willies.) My point is that GFA seems to be following the Indian way of big religion, which is not all that different from US big religion.
mirele wrote:
And all of which is not all that different from the ‘business is business’ crowd to whom the rules do not apply-in their minds. In other words, it is not just in religion that mess goes on.
@ okrapod:
That did not sound right. I did not mean to imply that you were limiting mess to religion. I just wanted to mention that large institutions in health care and education and such get nabbed for stuff also.
But they have “gospel” in their name, so they can not be “criminals”
mirele wrote:
Todd Wilhelm wrote:
It’s getting increasingly difficult to find “the Lord’s anointed” in 21st century church. The reason we don’t have much holiness preaching is that the pulpit is not holy. More annoying than anointed in many places. If TWW can truly find the anointed, don’t touch them … in the meantime, expose those who use and abuse the flock. You are cyberspace watchmen on the wall to warn both of the danger coming over the hill and what is already in the camp. See something … say something! If your critics don’t have eyes to see and ears to hear, ignore them.
Serving Kids In Japan wrote:
C.J. Mahaney is fond of proclaiming to his minions that he is the worst sinner he knows. I take him at his word.
Well, my word. I had no idea until I looked up Yohannan what St Thomas christianity was, other than some vague idea that Thomas the apostle may have preached in southern India. Very interesting. There is enough interesting stuff there to last me for a while.
@ okrapod:
It’s water. I was there.
Todd Wilhelm wrote:
Paul said something like that once “Jesus came into the world to save sinners – and I am the worst of them all” (1 Timothy 1:15). C.J. ain’t Paul!
okrapod wrote:
Small ones too…I worked in a relatively small school district in which 3 administrators did time in the Huntsville State Hotel for economic ” irregularities.”
@ mirele: Even more amazing is that they convinced donors and pastors to smuggle cash also. They equated it to smuggling bibles, and they only gave a few hours’ notice so the carriers didn’t have much time to talk about or consider it. There is a strong spirit of deception at GFA because they have such a godly, humble appearance – much like the Pharisees of Jesus’ day would have had – respected by virtually everyone so that nobody would believe they were “white-washed tombs.”
@ okrapod:
The issue is not so much the “religious practices” but that KP insisted they be hidden from the western evangelical world. The picture of the priest sprinkling water (it was water-I was there) is from a chapel dedication in Texas where GFA built their new $43 million compound as “quietly” as they could over the past few years.
Serving Kids In Japan wrote:
Just like Duck Commander never saw any racism in Jim Crow Louisiana when he was growing up?
Jeffrey Chalmers wrote:
That’s what Sock Puppets — I mean “Concerned Christians(TM)” and “Spontaneous Demonstrations(TM)” — are for.
Todd Wilhelm wrote:
HUMBLY, of course.
(chuckle chuckle)
mirele wrote:
One word:
RAJNEESHPURAM.
The historic Oregon ghost town where the guru maintained a fleet of Rolls-Royces while his followers lived in worse than Third World conditions. I wonder if he took all the Rolls with him when he had to flee the country?
@ Todd Wilhelm:
If not for this blog I would have no idea what truly is going on in Christianity today.
Having been a long time member of CJs covenant life church, when I read about him giving all that money to the SBC, I knew then that something was terribly wrong. I still wouldn’t know about that today. Unless you read here or a few other blogs how would anyone know.
Todd Wilhelm wrote:
Just another gang of Gospelly(TM) crooks.
This was a timely post. I have donated to GFA for years and was getting ready to send another donation. I was unaware of the scandal. I stopped giving to Voice of the Martyrs after the scandal there, and now GFA won’t get any more of my money.
The idea of only donating to local charities (the town’s food bank and a local home for trafficked girls) is beginning to look more and more appealing. That said, does anyone know of any scandals involving Heifer International? They look interesting, but I suppose a bunch of googling is in order.
Max wrote:
That was CJ’s (not so) “humble” way of comparing himself to Paul.
Joy wrote:
That’s why sites like TWW are called “watchblogs” … they serve a valuable service as modern day watchmen on the wall for the church at large. Unfortunately, not enough church folks are tuned into the blogosphere to be informed, so they become misinformed. And sometimes, the pew just desires to be willingly ignorant and not stir anything up for the sake of unity. What they forget is that there is one Body of Christ; it is united in belief and practice … you just have to find it by praying that God will lead you to it, or not go to church and be the church until the genuine is revealed among the overwhelming counterfeit that is 21st century Christendom.
okrapod wrote:
So right you are. It is a bit worn out, too, and can mean anything.
I cannot wrap my head around grown ups thinking it normal to carry back packs full of donated money to another country.
@ Joy:
They adopted the internet early on to expand their empires. Now the internet is showing us who they really are if we can screen shot before they delete. They have caught on, too. :o)
Just as an example. I tried to find that back issue SBTS mag online where it shows how much CJ/SGM gave. Cannot find it. I tried to find the Piper Dubai vid where he calls for a tower to come down…deleted. Even the Lifeway site deleted his words. And on it goes. Most of Driscoll bad boy stuff has been deleted. See, they can start again with a whole new crop coming of age who might google them.
Lydia wrote:
New Calvinists are masters of social media. The NC minions wait anxiously for the next Piper Point or Mohler Moment to be tweeted across cyberspace. They used to relish and retweet Driscoll Drivel, but he has been silent of late while he plots his unrepentant comeback.
HoppyTheToad wrote:
When searching, a good thing is to include with the organization name or acronym along a word like abuse or corruption. Financial corruption exposed by the ECFA, likely triggered by Throckmortons blog is what may bring GFA down, but the GFA Diaspora link referenced by Dee above testifies to a large exodus of people that came out of GFA reporting on abusive “leadership”.
@ Lydia:
I just think of all the customs laws that need to be violated in order to do this kind of behavior. I also consider all the banking laws I had to learn when I worked in banking that are being violated.
Dr. K.P. yohannan is the biggest sinner I know. I lived in Dallas and I know him from 1974.
I told every body what a wretched crook he was. I was thinking of writing a book about him namely, COMEUPPANCE OF K.P. Yohannan. The books he published were written by paid employees.
I met one of then while I was in Kerala, India. He is the biggest liar I have ever met.He preached at Calvary Chapel, Downey Ca. I was hearing his speech. 90% per cent of it was lies. I know this as I am also from, Kerala, India. His doctorate is from a Bible School in Chennai, India for which he paid a large amount of money. He paid 800,000 Indian Rupees to get his Bihop Tittle. If any body wants more information please contact me at 12250 Graystone Ave, Norwalk, Ca 90650.562-929-4338, samleela@verizon.net. Samuel Jacob.
@ SAMUEL JACOB:
Oh goodness that is horrible. I hear you saying that this has been going on a long time. Do you have any ideas as to why he has been getting away with this for so long? I am thinking perhaps bribery?
Lydia wrote:
As of today, It Never Existed, Comrade.
doubleplusungood ref doubleplusunarticle.
LLBB!
Hello Samuel,
I am sure you will be contacted shortly by interested parties.
I am placig this comment here to remind both yourself and all others of how a Christian could view, from a doctrinal basis, His Grace The Most Reverend……The Head of the Church.
As supreme ecclsical and constitutional authority in all matters, etc. etc. His Grace would not appreciate his authority being questioned. I believe this is what a real-life Nicolaitan constitutes. It is humorous to be sure, but GFA is also a situation to be taken seriously.
I think you may be aware of the reports that GFA is an organization bringing court action against detractors. there appears to be a special sensitivity to information showing his Grace to have been on boards of Indian trust. This includes a comment removed from Patheos that I personally made regarding a GFA commo boardmember. (The Metrolpolitan, a referance that GFA does not seem to want the public to see)
.——nathan priddis 3 months ago Removed———
I recomend the following:
*Any person making a comment should remember GFA is the subject of a criminal complaint.
*GFA management appear highly motivated to suppress sensitive information.
*As always…mean what you say, and say what you mean..should be the rule at all times. Word all comments carefully and say things that can be documented. Do not carelessly state things as fact if you are not sure of it’s valid. Speculation should be presented as speculation.
@ SAMUEL JACOB:
Deb, Dee, Julie Anne, Eagle:
THIS SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING TO FOLLOW UP.
@ SAMUEL JACOB:
See the reply below:
nathan priddis wrote:
So who died and made him Pope?
Bill M wrote:
Thanks for the suggestion. I was going to search using “scandal” but I think I should add your terms to the list.
Now I find myself wondering what happened to the thousands of dollars we donated to GFA over the years. I’m glad to learn of their corruption before writing another check. I think I’ll send the money to the local food pantry instead.
Well, a quick search showed that there are scandals associated with Heifer International as well. Ugh, is everyone asking for money just trying to scam people?
HoppyTheToad wrote:
We live in a fallen world.
Dee, concerning the guy who contacted y’all and basically told you to keep quiet, don’t listen. There are not a lot of sites that are keeping the evangelical church accountable. Personally, I am thankful for the work you are doing. You are correct, we as Christians, should hold ourselves to higher standards of ethics and transparency than the rest of the world. Anyone, who does not understand that, misses a lot of what is in scripture.
It neverWill M wrote:
It never ceases to amaze me when Christians excuse the immoral acts of pastors and others in the limelight by saying, “We are all sinners.” I can’t remember the reference, but James (I think) says that not many people should want to be teachers because they will be held to a higher standard. I’m pretty sure Paul also wrote something about church elders needing to be so full of integrity that non-believers can find nothing bad to say about them. Perhaps this is why two witnesses are needed to accuse an elder – because to even be qualified to begin with, everyone in the community that knew them, Christian or not, had to agree that the man (or woman) was completely honest, trustworthy, reliable, etc.
Bill M wrote:
My favorite episode!
Lydia wrote:
I have screen shots of the former and an audio recording of the latter. Let me know if you want copies.
HoppyTheToad wrote:
I can’t speak to people’s motivations, but when you consider that the very act of asking for money requires what amounts to a sales pitch that leaves a lot of room for filling in the blanks with stuff that may be exaggeration at best. Back in the day this was one aspect that could be minimized by giving through the co-operative program. But that was then and this is now.
With each new scandal, I gain more respect for George Mueller’s decision to never ask anyone for anything to run his orphanage (19th century). He wait for God to prompt people to give. Of course, that idea can also be taken too far, I’m sure.
HappyTheToad – I would also suggest doing a search to see if your charity you want to donate to has hired a PR firm or a Branding Consultant. If some firm lists them as a client, do not donate. It is a big red flag! If they need to spin bad news or “define their brand” then something is clearly wrong.
@ Todd Wilhelm:
Oh thank you! I will contact you if the need arises again.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
It seems that God did. He references a vision that is the basis for the name Bridge of Hope. Reading his book, it appears God talks to him.
I read journalist David Knowles’ article in today’s Anglican Communion News Service that gives a contrasting perspective than Dee’s emailing TWW antagonist.
“Former Archbishop of Canterbury , Dr Rowan Williams, now Master of Magdalene College Cambridge, said, giving the 2015 Orwell Lecture at University College London:
He said it was “alarming” when people banned controversy when it was clearly not hate speech.
Dr Williams reserved his most astringent remarks for what he called the “contemporary neurosis”.
“Debates about international issues like Israel and Palestine, or issues of personal and social morals – abortion, gender and sexuality, end-of-life questions – are regularly shadowed by anxiety, even panic about what must not be said in public, and also by sometimes startlingly coercive insistence on the rational and canonical status of one perspective only.”
The answer was education, he said.
“Not in the silencing of disagreement but in the education of speech. How is unwelcome truth to be told in ways that don’t humiliate or disable?
“The answer to that question is inseparable from learning to argue.””
Should anyone care to read the full ACNS publication piece and need a bit of relief, I’ll share this:
At Tara in this fateful hour,
I place all Heaven with its power,
And the sun with its brightness,
And the snow with its whiteness,
And the fire with all the strength it hath,
And the lightning with its rapid wrath,
And the wind with its swiftness along its path,
And the sea with its deepness,
And the rocks with their steepness,
And the Earth with its starkness
All these I place
By God’s almighty help and grace
Between myself and the powers of darkness.
— Madeleine L’Engle, A Swiftly Tilting Planet
nathan priddis wrote:
In the same way God talked to Joseph Smith and Ellen G White.
SAMUEL JACOB wrote:
Just like Ergun Caner.
And before him, Mike Warnke.
I’m not surprised he preached at a Calvary Chapel. I live near Ground Zero of the whole Calvary Chapel movement, Calvary Chapel dominated local Christianese AM radio. And Calvary Chapel has always “looked fair but felt foul” to me. Like it concentrates and distills all the ways an Independent New Testament Church(TM) can go wrong.
@ Introvertish:
I would love to read it. He is right on. It is blowing my mind that speech is being censored on college campuses here….by the students! People are looking for offenses. There is no right not to be offended. They don’t want discussion or debate.
Todd Wilhelm and Max commented on the oft used phrase “touch not the Lord’s anointed”. We know that phrase comes from I Samuel 26 when Abishai wanted to assassinate King Saul as he slept.
“No!” David said. “Don’t kill him. For who can remain innocent after attacking the LORD’s anointed one?” (I Samuel 26:9 – NLT)
So, who was the “Lord’s Anointed” in this scene?
He was an insane, insecure, power-hungry failure filled with fear and jealousy.
Maybe these guys the Deebs are exposing and warning against are more “anointed” than have thought.
So, how many Indian gurus have medical schools? I don’t think Osho or TM do. Naropa doesn’t. ISKCON doesn’t. Sai Baba does, but it’s in India. Is there one in the USA? I should know this, but I’m drawing a blank.
@ nathan priddis:
Nathan, do you know why the comment on Patheos was removed?
Eagle wrote:
Hi Eagle! Great post. I am familiar with most of the info you posted, but there are a few links I plan to follow up on later today. i tried to leave a comment over there, but my techie skills are abysmal.
walkinthespirit wrote:
It was a copy / paste from the mandatory info page for Believers Church Residential School. It showed His Grace The Metropolitan as Head of the Board. This seems to have been a little sensitive being he claims he was not.
I assume my comment was included in the list of items being threaten with litigation against Patheos. That mandatory page was included in the pages GFA changed or deleted.
Lydia wrote:
They want their Womb, with Warm Milk and Self-Esteem Praise on demand.
@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
-about university students being offended-
I don’t know if you all ever read Mike Adams. He teaches criminology at UNC Wilmington and writes stuff including for townhall dot com. Mike made a name for himself when he sued the university over tenure denial due to political philosophy bias and won. One of his columns on townhall is entitled ‘get out of my class…’ and addresses this very issue. I think that particular column of his is really good.
okrapod wrote:
He offended all the Speshul Little Snowflakes?
No wonder ISIS is winning.
While we’re pooping our diapers being offended, they’re seizing power and killing anyone in their way.
@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
I try to be empathetic but I worked my touche off in college with 3 jobs and full load semesters.
Thanks so much for addressing this. We’ve been GFA supporters for at least 15 years and this came as a shock just this past week when I happened upon one of Throckmorton’s pieces. Too bad we already sent in a donation for November, but it will more than likely be the last. Thankful that God will sort all of this mess out…I’m just sorry I didn’t know about it sooner. Heartbreaking.
Now why would Gospel for Asia employ lawyers to go after Warren Throckmorton’s posts?
Imitating Scientology and its Fair Game Law LRH?
Lydia wrote:
You majored in fencing…?
__
“Sea of Glass?”
Lydia wrote:
hmmm…
Vigilance.
We are ‘playing’ in a large ‘sandbox’,
Might wanna getz a ‘bigger’ shovel…
(grin)
hahahahahaha
ATB
Sopy
__
Comic relief: Da Beached Boyz: “Diggin’ Up Good Vibrations?”
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d8rd53WuojE
;~)
—
HoppyTheToad wrote:
I am also stunned. I have been so careful (I thought) over the years to investigate ministries and be aware of where donations were going. Reading KP’s Revolution in World Missions sold me…it made so much since to provide money and training for the nationals. We’ve supported them for 2-3 years, but interestingly, earlier this Fall I thought about contacting them and asking to be removed from the mailing list because of the enormity of mailings and requests. I just never got to it.
The volume of junk mail and requests from Compassion, Int’l is one of the reasons we stopped sponsoring them, too. We enjoyed donating while we did (we tried to match up needy children who were the ages of our own kids) but the near constant requests for more, more, more money was wearying.
Elizabeth Lee wrote:
Ah! Well, that puts a different face on it. I was entirely with Okrapod on this, until you said that. (I share her concern over the fact that he is *possibly* not a real bishop. That’s a more subtle, but equally damaging lie.
Christiane wrote:
Amen, friend! You speak my mind.
HoppyTheToad wrote:
We have some neat local charities here, too. I love the fact that we are able to help folks in tough economic times. And I know the people who run them, & that I can trust them.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
Indeed.
Zla’od wrote:
At least I wasn’t the only one picturing Lydia as a latter day Robin Hood!!