This is just a quickie update. It seems like the media is catching up to our documented concerns on the John Catanzaro situation.
You can read Dr Throckmorton's comments here.
According to Ostrom’s reporting, Mark Driscoll praised Catanzaro’s treatments which led to others in the church to seek out his services. Some former MHC members have related to me that Driscoll has stated publicly that the IV vitamin treatments cost over $1,000 each.
The Times article also delves into Catanzaro’s fundraising methods a bit. As the Times notes, patients have set up accounts to solicit funds for their individual care.
This next link breaks my heart. Here is the page, note this carefully, of the HWIFC Cancer Research Group (Catanzaro's company) on which patients can solicit funds so they can afford Catanzaro's "vaccines." Please do not use the names of any of these people in your comments out of respect for them.
The Seattle Times coverage of John Catanzaro can be found here. Here are some quotes from the article.
“These vulnerable cancer patients are led to believe that the vaccine is effective based on patient testimonials but (Catanzaro) has not compiled actual research to demonstrate efficacy,” the state’s charging document said.
Although the state doesn’t address the issue in its action against Catanzaro, patients have blogged about having to fundraise to pay for the experimental vaccines. Some families said they were paying about $15,000 per treatment for the cancer vaccine, which was not covered by insurance and ideally would be given up to three times a year, along with other injections and supplements.
Patients enrolled in research studies typically are not charged for the treatment being researched, according to the National Cancer Institute and Seattle Cancer Care Alliance.
Catanzaro has appealed the decision and has until March 14th to respond.
It is now time to ask the obvious questions.
Who is getting the money which is being paid to Catanzaro?
Are there investors in Catanzaro's research?
If so, who are they?
FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!
🙂
$1,000 intravenous vitamin procedure? Golly, I’m in the wrong business.
One of the posts said 7% of the raised funds had to go to the hosting service????
Another said the, “therapy “, offers a cure.
Makes me mad /sad these folks have so much hope extended to them without warrant. No scientific proof of effacacy, no medical trials statistics cited.
$1000 a pop Vitamin Treatments…
$15000 a pop Cancer Vaccines…
No documentation outside Catanzaro’s ads & informercials…
WHAT DOES THE DUCK SAY?
5th!!!!! 😯
Well I better start making me some peecycles. Man…my family will be surprised when they see what’s in my freezer!! 😉
In regards to following the money, remember the term “follow the money” was coined by Deep Throat (no not Mark Driscoll!) to Bob Woodward in a Arlington Parking Garage during Watergate.
Katie wrote:
(rushes off to blend trader joe’s gummy vitamins w/water. pours into baggies. creates $500 price tags)
I’M IN BUSINESS!
SNAKE OIL salesmen have existed since the dawn of mankind. They will exist until the end of mankind.
“There is nothing new under the sun.”
@ srs:
Let me add another thought. A number of people purportedly felt better after the IV of vitamins. Really-vitamins made you feel better?
I wonder if there was anything else in those IVs?
Two things from the article:
one: “It’s no surprise (Catanzaro’s) practice has done well, being connected to such a huge organization as Mars Hill,”
and two: Driscoll’s connection with the clinic “made us feel more comfortable with him, no question about that
A mutually $benefiting$ relationship. One of my friends will still not discuss Catanzaro, though I’ve asked a couple of times.
@ dee:
They probably just felt better being able to talk to someone they thought was a qualified professional. Also: placebo effect. Like Airborne.
(this situation is just so sad – none of my snark is directed at the people this organization took advantage of.)
and there are already a lot of comments on this story. That’s not always the case for the seattle times site.
Lin wrote:
Hang on a sec … if this is correct, then HWIFC are charging $X per treatment, and also offering a service whereby patients can solicit donations for a 7% cut. What this means is that if a patient uses this service to raise the $15,000 required, they actually need to raise $16,129 (an additional $1129), ALL of which goes to HWIFC!
There’s also a good possibility I’m reading into this things that aren’t there
dee wrote:
In the past, that has often been the case. I wonder along with you. I just hope that whatever it was, that it didn’t make people sicker than they all ready were to begin with.
Vitamins can make a person feel a lot better if they are what they really need. Anyone willing to pay that much is probably sick enough that giving vitamins intravenously, by-passing a poor gut, could easily feel good. That doesn’t mean it cures, or even deals with the main issue, which it should for that kind of money.
Now if he’s lacing those “vitamins” with something more interesting, well, then I might need a treatment, myself! 😉
srs wrote:
Just pay me royalties for the idea! 😉
@ Katie:
The question is how he ascertained that they were vitamin deficient. Secondly, there are fat soluble vitamins that should not be overdosed.
It is important to realize that these patients who had cancer were also being followed by real oncologists who were involved in making sure that the person was not malnourished Despite beliefs to the otherwise, medical oncologists (MDs) are trained in that area as well.
@ Katie:
🙂
dee wrote:
Excellent point!
@ dee:
placebo psychology in the process with the IV vitamins!
@ Dave:
I was wrong – it doesn’t look like the fundraising site has any link to HWIFC
The fundraising site is firstgiving.com which is owned by frontstreampayments.com and it looks like, from the costs page http://info.firstgiving.com/nonprofits/cost/ that the fee they take is actually 7.5%
@ An Attorney:
Shoot- I was hoping there was a little “boost” in the mix.
@ Dave:
It’s OK. It is easy to think that to be the case. But, if you click on the First Things logo at the top, it will take you to their home page in which they show other groups who use them. It looks like the Catholic church uses the site as well.
The page for HWIFC however does explain who the group is.
http://www.firstgiving.com/hwifccancerresearchgroup/about
I found this statement fascinating.
“All research is privately sponsored and funded through the Cancer Research Group and under private study. We are not affiliated with any vaccine-development industry, pharmaceutical industry, or medical biotech-related industry. “
zooey111 wrote:
Like Adolf Hitler’s vitamin shots from his personal Dr Feelgood? Analysis at the time showed they were heavily spiked with an early form of Meth.
Dave wrote:
Which while it seems a bit on the high side is not all that out of line if you want someone else to do all the processing and just drop the money into your account.
Do these scheisters actually believe their own snake oil hype? I’ve always wondered that…
Mark 5: ‘And there was a woman who had had a discharge of blood for twelve years, and who had suffered much under many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was no better but rather grew worse.’
There is nothing new about using medical needs to make money, even to the point of impoverishing someone. All the more tragic for the good it does.
Ken wrote:
Thanks for that reference Ken. You make an excellent point.
A friend was just telling me yesterday that less than 20% of all pharmaceutical drugs being sold today are actually new discoveries. Pharmaceutical companies just reintroduce drugs with different branding, marketing, etc. Medicine truly is an industry filled with all kinds of motives.
My wife has an auto-immune disease called Lupus, which eventually caused her to also have Crohns, Celiac, and now recently a rare kind of lung disease. Our home is filled with medicine! We are very grateful to live in Boston, where we have access to the best research and medical facilities. Her life has been extended, and we have even been able to have three healthy children through medical technology. We are not opposed to using technology, and view medicine as just another way God can be glorified through His creation.
However, there have been several times when we have had to advocate for ourselves, and she has opposed doctor’s treatment plans. Sometimes, individuals have to weigh out the pros and cons prayerfully, and listen to what God reveals as best for their unique situation.
I remember when we first saw a documentary about the “Gerson Miracle” diet. Because my wife has suffered so much, we were both extremely intrigued by the testimonials and claims of Lupus patients. We were honestly being swayed, both emotionally and intellectually. But, God intervened, and revealed to us that it is an elaborate hoax targeting vulnerable people.
My whole point, like Ken stated, is that only Jesus knows what is best for each of us. Jesus did not heal everyone, and many of us still suffer greatly on this planet. We all ultimately yearn for a new world.
@ Erik:
” However, there have been several times when we have had to advocate for ourselves, and she has opposed doctor’s treatment plans. Sometimes, individuals have to weigh out the pros and cons prayerfully, and listen to what God reveals as best for their unique situation.
I remember when we first saw a documentary about the “Gerson Miracle” diet. Because my wife has suffered so much, we were both extremely intrigued by the testimonials and claims of Lupus patients. We were honestly being swayed, both emotionally and intellectually. But, God intervened, and revealed to us that it is an elaborate hoax targeting vulnerable people.
My whole point, like Ken stated, is that only Jesus knows what is best for each of us. Jesus did not heal everyone, and many of us still suffer greatly on this planet. We all ultimately yearn for a new world.”
So very true. So much of the world suffers from having no medical care. We in the Western world have so many medical options to chose. God grant us the wisdom and peace (grace and courage as well ) of saying yes to some options and no to other options, including duck treatments.
In other news, I went for my biggest run of the year yesterday and my hamstring is fine today; so rehab seems to be going well. Should be back fell-running in time for July.
@ dee: A b-12 shot will give you energy and make you feel better. I know cause I’ve been there and done that. Of course at a real doctor’s office they will only do this if they have determined that you are deficient in b-12.
@ Wisdomchaser:
I see others were already on the deficiency thing. Great minds think alike.
@ Nick Bulbeck:
Well, please don’t fall when you run haha jk couldn’t resist. I was just hamstringing around a bit.
Congrats on a *full* recovery!
HWIFC claims to perform research without ties to big Pharma, or government funding…..Problem is, it is very expensive to do research the right way. Before human trials there is a whole battery of tests in animals and people called phase I and phase II trials, and there is nothing of this evident here. Catanzo is going straight to treatment without any evidence of phase I or phase II trials, so if he has an honest bone in his body, is this all on a whim? Where is the evidence and are there any comparisons to conventional therapy ( a phase III) clinical trial. There is nothing.
@ Paula:
Runners are less likely to fall when they have a spring in their step…
In other news, my life is in disarray at the moment due to a slight rash on my left wrist.
The thing is, I’ve temporarily switched my watch to my right wrist. But I’ve worn my watch on the left for around 35 years (not the same watch, but the same wrist), and I cannot get used to looking anywhere else to see the time. So I keep checking my watch, only to find it isn’t there, and only then remembering where it actually is.
Yes, it’s very tough. Thanks for listening.
Bedtime in Blighty…
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
You always make me laugh. Thank you. Try some cortisone cream on that wrist.
@ Nick Bulbeck:
Actually, you have likely had a 100% turnover in the living cells in that wrist in 35 years. perhaps several. So it is not the “same” wrist!!!!! You just did not notice the turnover.
An Attorney wrote:
I realise this – all apart from the nerve cells are at most 7 years old – but sometimes a little inaccuracy saves a ton of explanation!
@ dee:
It’s responding nicely to topical micronazole.
GREAT CAESAR’S GHOST!!!!!! 😯
Is Maj. Gen. Ibrahim Abdel-Atti of the Egyptian Army a partner for John Catanzaro. I see the Ehyptian Army found a cure for Hepititis C and AIDS?!? 😯
http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/27/world/africa/egypt-aids-cure-claim/index.html?hpt=hp_t3
Did John Catanzaro open an office in Egypt? Is this a “Gospel Centered Military?” Does Mark Driscoll approve? 😛
Please inquring minds want to know!!
Why Mars Hill was the perfect incubator for questionable naturopathy by Valerie Tarico
Valerie Tarico is a well known atheist. She writes at Ex-Christian.net. It’s about time atheists and skeptics staretd to jump on the bandwagon about Mars Hill.
Eagle wrote:
“Atheist” covers quite a spectrum these days.
Atheist as in atheist, Atheist as in ex-Christian burn job out for revenge, or Atheist as in rabid foaming eager to Stick It To Those Xtians?
@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
Ex-Christian burn job, The problem of pain and suffering was her breaking point. She went to Wheaton.
Did you see this article?
http://www.bothell-reporter.com/news/248463071.html
@ Sean:
Thank you for sharing this. Unfortunately, these folks show a profound lack of understanding of how to document actual cause and effect. Anecdotal ” it cured me” statements are interesting but not “proof.” How do these people “know” that the vaccine cured them?
Take my daughter. She had a less than 10% prognosis when she was diagnosed with her brain tumor. She survived. Why? Did the surgery cure her? Did her own body’s immune system take over? Was it the daily ingestion of jelly beans? What if I had taken her to get one of Catanzaro’s “vaccines?” Would these people then say it was the Vaccine that cured her?
I feel so sorry for very sick people. I’ve been there.
@ Sean:
The first patient in the article also underwent two rounds of chemotherapy. How can she be certain it was an experimental vaccine that cured her?