“There are no secrets to success. It is the result of preparation, hard work, and learning from failure.” Colin Powell link
In August 2013, Kevin Galloway penned this blog post. He has not written anything since that time so it is difficult to know if it had any effect. He said:
While we are experiencing significant numeric growth as a local church, we face a disturbing statistic. Christ Church has grown by approximately 100% over the last year with steady growth over the summer months. What is disturbing is that only 40% of our regular worship gathering attenders show up each week.
Church attendance is the new "it topic" of the Calvinistas. Galloway attempts to tie the decline in his church attendance into this newly identified problem. "Hey, see, we are no different." But, in this instance, it is different. In our opinion, Countryside/Christ Church is an example of a church replanting fail.
It does appear that some "leaders" would not want to discuss this or other awkward matters, preferring, instead, to call it gossip link. It seems that they want the pastors to have oversight of the blogs. Why? Could it be that many blogs highlight the foibles of pastors and leaders? These pastors are jumping up and down, trying to get attention "for the gospel." They use all sorts of media to garner that focus on them. Do they want all the positives of media exposure without the concomitant critique? For example, notice the absolute silence of Mark Driscoll when it comes to questions of plagiarism. But he sure did lots of talking to the media about his sex book.
In the meantime, I rarely see any articles that reflect an understanding by certain leaders that sometimes pastors can do very, very bad things that hurt those who come to their churches. It appears that they want their cake and eat it, too. Who is out there for the church members-the very ones that the pastors are to serve? Perhaps, just perhaps, there is now some balance in the system with blogs who give a hoot about the little guy?
Is it gossip to pass on local bad news through a global blog? Are Christians independent agents, free to write and say what they wish with no supervision? And should church members be running blogs outside the oversight of their pastors? Are they accountable to overseers if they sin in what they say on a blog? Is every Christian an investigative journalist?
They totally screw up their argument by the following statement.
Gossip is not a small issue. Loose lips have sunk ships, ruined reputations, and destroyed the unity of local congregations. Protecting each other’s good name is a mark of Christ’s love, and giving diligence to preserve the unity he created means killing gossip.
How many of these leaders ever once called the families of those harmed by child sex abuse? Who cares for the lowly tithers? How many leaders surround their fellow pastors who are called out in scandals? How many of the same leaders surround the children and families who are in pain? Wade Burleson is one example of a leader who has consistently reached out to people, outside of his church, who are in pain.
Unfortunately, there is way too much silence on the part of some pastors and leaders.
What happens when local church leaders or extra local leaders destroy the reputations of church members by despicable church discipline practices, default on church loans, and destroy a once fine church with a history of good attendance, committed Christians and service to the community? Silence! These "gospel gossip" treatises on certain blog sites are dedicated to protecting church leadership while throwing the good and decent people who have worked hard, maintaining outside jobs, giving time and money to the church, under the bus. Suddenly, there are crickets *chirping* over at the Acts 29 website on which they continue to list, as a church in good standing, a failed church plant by this very church which, in our opinion, was also a massive replant fail link.
Christ Church NWI – Valpo Missional Community: Valparaiso, Indiana, US
We are going to list the problems one by one. It is our hope that other churches contemplating a potential church replant, will use this list to evaluate the potential success/failure of such a move. Caveat Emptor.
Members: Do not assume that the national organization will come to the aid of a church in distress.
From what we can tell, Acts 29 provides resources such as books, etc. along with conferences to "instruct" the replant pastor on how to do church. They do not give hands on assistance when things go south. You are essentially on your own.
Members: Cautiously read the website of any organization before your church becomes a member.
It will provide clues as to what is to come. We will discuss this more in depth of Friday. But, as a quick example, please refer to the bold section of this statement from the Acts 29 website link.
Therefore, women are to be encouraged, equipped, and empowered to utilize their gifting in ministry, in service to the body of Christ, and through teaching in ways that are consistent with the Word of God.
This statement is what we call a zinger. The problem is in the details. Ask questions such as "What do you mean by "consistent with the Word of God?" This leaves much latitude and can be interpreted quite narrowly.
Members: Cautiously investigate the idols of your current pastor.
For example, had you looked up Mark Driscoll, you might have seen this notorious video. I am placing it here for those in Indiana who have not see this stuff.
Now, if that didn't scare you; Google Driscoll's name. You will see controversy after controversy regarding alleged plagiarism link, calling Queen Esther a trollop link, throwing people under the bus link, and insulting British Christians link. Ask yourself this question. Does my pastor show sound judgment in using Mark Driscoll's materials?
Pastors: Do not marginalize women.
Becky said:
Some left because of Mark's attitudes about women in the church and how denigrated we women began to feel when our new leaders began adopting Mark's "bigotry" towards women.
Most churches tend to have a majority of female attendees as opposed to males attendees. Is Acts 29 "bigoted" towards women? I don't know but I certainly can understand how it could be perceived in such a manner. If such an attitude is being picked up by women in the church, you have a disaster in the making. You have the potential of losing up to 60% of your support in one fell swoop. Your church will die.
Pastors: Do not make a radical change in theology unless the congregation has requested you to do so. You will lose members-perhaps lots and lots of members.
- Caveat 1: I am not discussing real heresy here.
- Caveat 2: Arminianism is not a heresy in my neck of the woods.
- Corollary 1: Losing lots of members over doctrinal disagreement is just plain stupid.
Stress love over doctrine (see Caveat 1 above). We wrote a post on this subject which was directed at Calvinists link.
Here is my theory. I believe that many Calvinists, who have come to a place of peace with their doctrine, do not understand how to communicate their beliefs in a way that engenders a sense of the love of Christ in their narrative. They believe that they are logical in their approach to Scripture and do not understand what they perceive to be an illogical objection by those who oppose Calvinist doctrine. I believe that this has been the case since the time of Calvin and continues to this day.
However, until recently, those of the Reformed persuasion and non-Calvinist beliefs were, in general, able to co-exist peacefully and even participate in joint projects. However, with the rise of the Young, Reformed and Restless crowd, there has been a rise in tensions between these two groups. When you have Calvinist leaders, such as RC Sproul, claiming that non-Calvinists are "barely Christians" and committed Christians like Roger Olson, who are accused by Calvinists of "not being a Christian," something has definitely gone wrong.
If Calvinists believe that non-Calvinists are suspect, then we have a divide that cannot be overcome. However, I believe that most Calvinists would deny such thoughts
Becky said:
Our classes were now being taught from books published by Acts 29. One woman friend of mine who was a charter member of our church left one class in tears when she challenged the asst. pastor over the book being taught from. She like I could not believe that God predestined whether or not her newly born grandchild would go to heaven or hell. She believes like me in the free will given to us all to make that choice. She was told she was to line up with what was being taught or leave. She left. Many left.
Any pastor who intends to shift a congregation to Calvinism or "the doctrines of grace" should be honest and tell the congregation up front. Deception and strong arm tactics will lead to a rapid decline in members.
Pastors: If you are losing lots of Christians from your congregation, you are doing something wrong.
You are losing the people who are the backbone of the church. For example, reportedly, the lady who ran the food pantry, a major community resource, left and took the pantry with her. The food pantry was an identifiable ministry of the church in the community and afforded them the respect of the citizens of that city. That is gone.
If your church attendance radically declines, you have a serious problem.
Corollary 1: The older people who have built the church tend to give the money to the church.
If you lose lots of members, you can be sure that the word will get around that something is desperately wrong at your church. You can be sure that there will be many, many people who will not darken your doorway if they see a mass exodus. This will also mean a major loss of revenue.
Pastor: Just because Mark Driscoll, Matt Chandler, John Piper, etc. attract thousands, does not mean the same will happen to you.
- Corollary 1: You are not Mark Driscoll, Matt Chandler, or John Piper.
- Corollary 2: These folks built their churches from the bottom up. The people there want to be there.
- Corollary 3: The money will not roll in the door so that you, too, can have a mansion.
Pastor: If your church is experiencing a decline in both membership and money, do not do a church plant.
Corollary 1 If you are screwing up one church, you will highly likely screw up the second church.
This is precisely what happened in this instance.This should seem self explanatory. Acts 29 pushes church plants and insists that each member church give 10% of their income to do so. However, this broad brush approach is foolish if the church is experiencing a significant loss in monetary intake. Do they really want a church to give 10% to a church plant while defaulting on their obligations to their creditors? Wow- what a witness.
Pastor: Do not discipline members for asking questions about money, credit card statements, direction of the church, etc.
Corollary 1: if you are losing money and members, you darn well better listen to them.
I do not understand why churches hide their pastors' salaries and perks. This is bound to lead to dissension and distrust over time. People have a right to understand why money is being spent at a liquor store. They should know when money is being spent on conferences, eyeglasses, etc.
Instead, examine Wade Burleson and Pete Briscoe's approach to church conflict link. Both pastors have handled conflict way better than most.
Pastor: Be very careful when you discipline and shun a member for ill defined issues. It speaks volumes to a watching world.
When outsiders, as well as insiders see such nonsense, you will not only lose present members, you will also guarantee that few people will want you to shepherd them into the kingdom.
We pray that God will grant you repentance. Becky, we pray that you would repent of gossip, slander, deception, lying, failing to submit to your husband and failing to submit to your church leaders. Brian we pray that you would repent of failure to submit to God's Word by failing to lead your wife by continuing to ignore her unrepentant sin in your relationship and home.
Pastor: Never, ever perp walk a member with a handicapped child out of a church. In fact, never, ever perp walk any member out of a church unless you believe you are in imminent danger of physical harm.
You will come across as a jerk. There is no other way to describe it. A police escort for a mom with a handicapped child-for crying out loud! What is wrong with you?!
We could not know when that Police Officer escorted us out of our church home it would turn out that morning was the worst and the best thing that ever happened to us,
Pastor: Do not pretend to be a role model or start a leadership training institute until you actually succeed in being a leader.
This is hubris at its worse. Would you want a doctor who has had a 100% failure rate to operate on your heart?
Pastor: You have a problem when this hits the papers.
This sort of publicity is really, really bad. It will affect your potential membership base. When it gets to this point, you have lost almost all of your credibility.
Let's take a look once again, at some comments in the local newspaper link
Marty wrote on Sep 11, 2011 1:14 PM:
" I was a member of Country side for over 20 years and find it distressing that this has happened. The leaders of the church do not listen to their church body. Shame on them! Once leadership changed…things went downhill. "
Follower of Jesus wrote on Sep 14, 2011 11:25 PM:
" I am one who is conflicted during this whole thing. On the one hand I want to tell those that are lamenting over the loss of their building to get over it. On the other hand, as a former member there and a long time member of the LaPorte Community, I totally understand the pain and mourning that is going on right now. What you have here is more than a Church that has "sold" its building, what you have is a Church that has essentially been hijacked by a leadership that has not the slightest touch with reality, nor any real concern for it's flock. This event is the result of the systematic alienation of almost 1000 people in this community. There were times when Countryside numbered nearly 1200-1300 strong on a Sunday Morning. Now there are just 400 left. Churches split and compress all the time because of needed change. This is not one of those times.
Pastor: Do everything in your power to respond to your creditors even if it means giving up the Bose speaker.
Corollary: It was not cool that Driscoll admitted to stealing a sound system link.
Pastor: Reconciliation with former members is essential.
Go to those you have offended and work it out with them. It does require humility which is something that is increasingly rare in certain circles these days.
Acts 29 : Do something.
- You have a moral and ethical obligation to intervene in this situation.
- You should not keep advertising churches which have failed.
- You should not be pushing a pastor who has presided over both a church plant and church replant fail.
What is a success?
Losing a church building, community respect, a church plant, most of the members and moving to a rental is NOT a success. If anyone thinks that it is, that someone needs to take a couple of business courses.
It is the hope of Becky, Buck and others that their story will help some other churches avoid such a saga. They are decent Christians who had front row seats to the devastation of a church they once loved and served.
To Becky, Buck and other former members of Countryside, please know that we, at TWW, stand with you in sorrow as we observe the failure of your former church. May God convict the heart of your former pastor and his sponsors. We hope, one day, you will receive an apology. You deserve it.
Lydia's Corner: Isaiah 28:14-30:11 Galatians 3:23-4:31 Psalm 62:1-12 Proverbs 23:19-21
I just want to take a minute to say thank you to the ladies at the Wartburg Watch. I really appreciate your willingness to stand with those of us here who are hurting and still so shocked and angry by what happened to us. I am honestly so grateful to you both. My family went through hell thanks to Pastor Kevin Galloway and the Acts 29 machine. My hope is one day we will have more resolution than we do today. Speaking out and telling my story has been the beginning of that journey. Not only that but I am so grateful to my pastor now for all his compassion and love for my family. God has used what some men intended to destroy us with and instead strengthened us and blessed us. It was not easy, but God has been so good to us, how can I ever complain? For the other people out there in churches considering an alliance with Acts 29 I pray safety and wisdom over you and your leaders. Run, Flee, resist, or my story will become yours…..
Wow! Great article. A tragedy created by men in the name of God, that’s blasphemy
Dee,
“What happens when ‘local churches’ destroy the reputations of church members by despicable church discipline practices, default on church loans, and destroy a once fine church . . . ” Dee
This might have been better stated as “What happens when ‘local or extra-local church leaders’ destroy the reputations . . .
It is only fair to state that church members can do the destroying of local churches as much as the church leaders. It has been my observation as well, though, that the one who has the platform, media, pulpit, etc. generally has the power and can malign others without much consequence. Members, on the other hand, usually end up under the bus, especially if they speak up publicly in an elder ruled only church.
Also wondering “who” oversees the many blogs that are written by pastors?!?! How many times have we seen a pastor retract and apologize publicly for something they wrote on their blog that was errant, sinful, unhelpful, or divisive? I’ve seen one retraction in three years, yet I’ve seen many blog posts taken down by ‘leaders’ with no explanation as to why they were removed. Hmmm . . . leading by example is always a good place to start. But, alas, maybe I’m too simple minded.
@ Bridget:
Awesome comment. i just made the correction. Thank you so much.
Bridget wrote:
Yep- it is usually quiet. i believe it was Jared Wilson who made the retraction to which you are referring. Oh, wait-didn’t Doug Wilson retract his post about calling in the elders when the wife is behind with the dirty dishes?
@ rebecca lynn:
Thank you for telling your story so that others will be helped. You did something good here. I am so, so sorry for the loss of your church. The church being on the sales block makes me really mad.
Should be required reading for all pastoral candidates.
Yes, Yes, and Yes.
Church can never be a dictatorship with the pastor or his minions in a censorship role. Once a church is that, it has long ceased to be a church.
Dee and Deb,
Keep doing the Lord’s work, sisters! “…for such a time as this”
Well done.
rebecca lynn wrote:
Au Contraire– thank YOU, Rebecca Lynn.
Mostly off-topic—— I just stumbled upon comments by you and Daisy at the Throckmorton blog. And the hilarious “Johnny Carpenter!” (scoffing at Driscoll-fan Jon Carpenter). Guess I should chime in as “Johnny C” by which I would mean to mock Mr Calvin. I stumbled upon that blog trying to find another one where I’d responded to Jon Carpenter. (misspelling his first name since he likely scans the interwebs for his name) I was nice, and even praised another favorite celeb of his— and guess what– NO REPLY AT ALL! It’s a miracle! How on earth does he find time to tend his “flock” and post thousands of comments online defending Park Fiscal?
What TWW has profiled here and on the previous thread is eerily similar to
the 1956 film Invasion of the Body Snatchers and the 1978 remake.
Heck, why stop with blogs? Should church members be _______ (reading controversial books, buying groceries, choosing vacation destinations, etc.) outside the oversight of their pastors? And what’s the justification for pastors getting complete oversight of their parishioners’ speech anyway?
…if the person actually has a deserved good name to begin with. If they’re using their good name to cover up their sins (pedophilia, embezzlement, etc.) and you protect it anyway, that’s calling enabling and participating in a lie.
Here’s what I don’t understand about the Neo-Reformed crowd. I can’t think of another group or movement that is so spectacular about their failures. Here is a classic example….Acts 29, Kevin Galloway in the mess they made have an opportunity to a watching world to spread the Gospel in a way that could blow the minds of so many people. All that Kevin Galloway, and Matt Chandler needs to do is take responsibility for this, close Christ Church, establish Countryside again, install a non Calvinista pastor and go before each member and beg for forgiveness. If they sincerely believe in God they will do that….
Will they…hard to say. The Kevin Galloways need to remember that their behavior creates people like Richard Dawkins. I would be fascinted to know if they atheist community around Michigan City grew as a result of this.
Dee… 132!! I’m so itching. Please check your email…. Rough day! 🙁
@ rebecca lynn:
Becky…where does your family attend now? Maybe we should give a shout out to them and a boost to a healthy church.
Dave A A wrote:
(This is regarding Wartburg Watch’s link at the top to the page on Patheos about the new Mark Driscoll plagiarism)
Is that guy for real? I seriously suspected him of being a troll the longer I was on that page and read more of his posts. I want to know how I can block him.
I went to Diqus’ site, but I don’t see anything on their site that advises on how one can put someone on block/ignore (unless one if the blog owner, which I am not).
The guy is obtuse and very insensitive. He willfully misinterprets people’s comments/views, and does not bother to meaningfully interact with their comments.
Bill Kinnon wrote:
Agreed…I don’t think I’d be a Christian today had it not been for these fine ladies. I’m rough…and I’m more toward the edges. But they are doing what others should be doing. Silence equals approval..and its awful.
Christianity is jacked up. It lacks a lot of intelectualism, has a ton of toxic organizations deu to either Hyper-Reformed influence on one end or Prosperity Theology on the other end.
But thanks…I don’t think I would be a Christain today had it not been for Dee and Deb.
Dave A A wrote:
What do you mean Dave? Can you explain?
@ Eagle: Dee, Deb and the Holy Spirit. 🙂 Glad the three of them put their arms around you, Eagle.
The same John C guy who tore into you a couple years back on the 9marks blog — the one about pator’s not letting their sheeple vanish into thin air. He’s writing hundreds and hundreds of comments on various blogs recently defending Driscoll. And telling people like Rebecca Lynn to “BE SILENT!”
Ha– Pator’s– must be my newly invented office in churches!
Dave A A wrote:
In Biblical terms, “‘Fall prostrate that we may walk on you.” (taken from Isaiah 51:23)
Concerning the injustices performed by Driscoll, Acts 29, and Pastor Galloway… of course they want her to be silent and let them walk on her and throw her on the bus. How can they keep up their evil with people (women even) like her and Dee and Deb keep shining the light on their evil deeds.
I’m really glad that Rebecca Lynn was woman enough to stand up for what is right.
@ Eagle:
And we wouldn’t have a good friend like you if you hadn’t visited TWW.
While many churches boast attendance numbers or baptisms each year (mostly attendance), what I think they can’t quantify are the number of people they TURN AWAY and TURN OFF to the gospel because of their silly actions and antics. Celebrity pastors, mandatory tithing, harsh rules and regulations which the pastor or an outside organization makes up. Seriously, if your church has 20,000 people attending each week with 3,000 baptisms per year, but turns off 100,000 people as a result of the PASTOR, then I do not call that a success.
The easy way is that they will say the 100,000 are HATERS. Quite the dismissive response to seekers, and opposite of what they espouse as a “seeker church.”
Dave A A wrote:
Obviously his flunkies are tending his flock so he can “maintain his brand” 24/7 without a life to get in the way. Just like a fanboy Social Media Celebrity online from his Mommy’s basement. (And I know of one Big Name Netizen who IS like that! With 5000 Facebook Friends(TM) ready to rally when the Big Name calls Jihad on anyone who disses him…)
Whenever this Calvinista theology is snuck in to a church it is done under sinful pretenses. Those secretly sneaking in said theology are thick as theives and think they are smarter than everybody else. With this behavior, pride leads to arrogance then to further transgressions. My old church I left 2 years ago is going through this right now. All of the empty nesters feel marginalized and are leaving. The wierd thing is they are bringing in a credulous younger crowd that buys in to this theology so the attendance numbers look good. Most recently, they did away with the choir and the organist quit. All of the older pastors but one have been shown the door and young hipster types have been brought in. It is not an Acts 29 church but is affiliated with 9 marks and tgc. It is not the same church it was 3 years ago and people there should be livid but nobody thinks for themself and just lets it happen. The changes were gradually made so nobody noticed except for those of us who caught on early and left.Eagle is corrcorrect that I left my old church rather agnostic and it took me a while to get my head screwed back on straight. Evil is creeping in to Evangelical churches and mostdof the rank and file dont catch on until it is too late.
SeanR wrote:
Often using the same “Salami Tactics” to set up a Coup-from-Within as Stalin used to muscle into Eastern Europe after WW2.
@ Bill Kinnon:
Thank you. We hope that our Friday post will round it out with how to read websites by organizations.
SeanR wrote:
(Keeping with the Stalin taking over Eastern Europe in ’46 imagery…)
As in the starry-eyed Young Pioneers/Young Communists League of Stalin or Chairman’s Red Guard of Mao. Young, Starry-Eyed True Believers, on Fire for The Cause (and Comrade Dear Leader). Enthusiastic Masses for The Takeover and Enforcers afterwards.
@ Eagle:
You are doing the Lord’s work. Your friend is still a wuss. He will be slapped upside the head by me one of these days.
Mara wrote:
There’s a lot of us out there and it is worrying certain factions.
@ Muff Potter: I remember the end of the one in the 70s. As the non-aliens entered town, all those assimilated people turned around and pointed their fingers at them and make that odd yelling sound. Truly creepy and most apropos.
Dave A A wrote:
He made a couple of visits here but didn’t last long. I don’t think he likes women. 🙂
@Dee:
And after that, make sure you check out The Wartburg Watch before doing anything.
@ Anon:
Thank you for having confidence. We try. 🙂
@ Eagle:
To God be the glory!
I’m struck by this quote from The Gospel Coalition book review (above):
There are so many innocent victims of spiritual abuse. It is important to have a place to speak out and be heard. Some of the Gospel Coalition blogs are censored, and opposing viewpoints get deleted or never see the light of day.
For most of 2013, if you did not agree with Justin Taylor, Kevin DeYoung, etc., and tried to post on their TGC blogs, you got your comment deleted. Same thing at Christianity Today. Those sites stomp on the little faithful Christian and take away his/her voice. (That probably explains why TWW has hundreds of comments on every post, and those guys are lucky to get any.)
For example, here look at the comments from JeffB at the bottom of Justin Taylor’s TGC blog.
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s302/sh/c21c5e0c-e252-44db-986e-1ae6fe9cf296/2dd3809c204a341aacdde8727d49faac
Here’s what Justin Taylor’s blog looks like now. Wow. No comments from JeffB. How convenient to shut down the voice of the average Christian who longs for righteousness!
http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2013/06/04/the-bible-is-not-your-supermarket/?comments#comments
Many people cry for fairness and justice but their voices are drown out by powerful leaders with microphones, advertising, and self-proclaimed celebrity status.
The average Christian doesn’t have a place where they can sound an alarm and help other Christians distinguish worldly marketing hype from good teaching.
I’m grateful to have found TWW this year. It’s a place to sound the alarm and find others who’ve walked the same path.
I left my mega-church which showed many of the same characteristics as these Acts29 failures (attendance decline, bullies running the show, anything that didn’t agree with the leader’s view was shouted down).
Now I attend a church with real men of God.
@ rebecca lynn:
I am so glad to have gotten to know you Rebecca! I am grateful that you are in a healthy church, and I pray that you and your family will continue to heal. Please know that you have been a blessing to many others who have been similarly hurt.
@ Bill Kinnon:
So good to hear from you Bill!
@ Deb:Thanks, Deb. Oh. And Merry Christmas, too. 🙂
Janey, They are scared. And trying to control people is all they know how to do.
Janey wrote:
They are just a bunch of weenies. They want to pretend that everyone agrees with them because they are correct, always. They show precious little concern for the abused.
anon 1 wrote:
More power to the bloggers who stand up for the oppressed! 2013 was a wake up call to certain Christian leaders whose ministries could not withstand the light of truth.
Any predictions about what 2014 will bring?
Janey wrote:
No, just great hopes that the humpty dumpties will have their great falls and we can get this over with.
anon 1 wrote:
Maybe jealous too.
2014 Predictions:
There will be a full court press to get bloggers to stop “gossiping” and ruining the fairy tale existence of certain church leaders. Here is the latest from Tim Challies.
http://www.challies.com/articles/the-gossip-rag-of-the-reformed-world?utm_content=buffer7bfec&utm_source=buffer&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Buffer
Message to such bloggers/leaders who think we get something out of this. We, unlike many of these guys, derive no income, and, in fact, spend our family money on supporting this blog. It is a labor of love.
We are not Amazon associates and we don’t kiss up to the latest trending church leaders to endorse us or our books, pamphlets or speaking engagements. We don’t go to conferences and speak or even earn money from writing books or working for a church or a church related industry.
Occasionally we do get in cars to spend the nights with readers who are park rangers or readers who get baptized. Oh yeah, we pay for that as well.
Can you imagine? We write for no other reason but to defend those who are hurt and to meet like minded people from around the world. And we even let people criticize us regularly.
Janey wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_hole
dee wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoughtcrime
@ Eagle:
We attend Faith City Assembly of God. We literally rolled up there the day of the perp walk and never left. The message that morning was on forgiveness as a path to healing. I was so NOT wanting to hear that. I still had tears on my face when I walked in, my son was just wrecked. And I left there taken by Pastor Bill's gentleness, and determined to find a way to forgive those horrible people. I honestly can say I am not there yet, I have suppressed alot of this and really am just now feeling the beginning of resolution. The hardest part is finding peace and acceptance. I want them to pay for what they did in a very real, visceral, way. I want this man to go to jail for theft, because I do believe he is a thief. The fact that he has a church and now a leadership program makes me miserable all over again. I feel kinda frozen by my desire to see him pay, and my desire to be an obedient daughter to my king. I am caught, and I don't like that at all. The humiliation and degradation that I suffered, that my kids saw brings on such anger. Please pray for me, I knew speaking out would start something, I am just really hurting. I think Mr. Galloway should pay for our entire family to go into Godly therapy. But I know that won't happen….
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
Perfect description, HUG.
Here is one of the last notes i wrote right before we were thrown out. I was called out for this note and told it made me guilty of all sorts of things. This was and is my heart. In the flock of God, I think I am a three legged sheep with an eyepatch!!! My flaws are obvious and many, I have been savaged by wolves once or twice too, but I am still a sheep. I deserve the same care as all the others, so notice the eyepatch and the missing leg and pay attention. In order to survive such battles my shepherd came along and took care of my wounds,cleaned me up and put me back on my three legs. And that one eye can see as clearly as two, and I know my shepherd when he comes near.
When he is near I feel safe and protected. I know that the wolves can’t get me. He watches over me and my fellow sheep and loves us all. We all are different but none are more special than others. Some of us are even more beat up than me! He keeps us from trouble and chastens us when we stray because he loves us and does’nt want to see any of the flock wander from him. He knows better than I what waits for us out in the world and would spare us the pain.
The truth is sheep are kinda stupid animals and often get into to trouble. I am not special in that regard, I mean hello…three legs….eyepatch!!!! Of course this sheep has walked in places it should’nt haven’t we all? Wow… look at that grass on the other hill it looks nicer….oh crap, a thicket!!! More than once my shepherd has rescued me from bad places and bad wolves wanting to eat me up!! For some reason no matter how many times the flock gets itself in trouble he always saves us. I am so glad I have a good shepherd.
When I look at the flock I ask myself why does he love us? We all smell a little goaty at times. If I was the shepherd I would get fed up with us and walk away. I am after all a damaged sheep myself. The first thing I would do if I was the shepherd is separate the the super smelly, damaged ones, from the others that always obey. The damaged ones are no good to anyone and should not even be allowed to pollute the pasture. They are not worthy. They have three legs or eyepatches, or scars that are obvious. They are too flawed and I would not want them in my flock. Send them away and save only the good ones. Then I could lead the other sheep and have a nice well behaved flock. What happens when the good sheep that always listen, don’t? Well they can go live with the unwanted ones in the back pasture. That is why there is only ONE good shepherd. I am not him. Thank God for that.
Over and over scripture refers to Christ as the good shepherd holding him up as the standard our leaders and pastors must be measured by. It is an impossible place to stand for a human with all their sins, but nonetheless they must hold to the standards set by the word of god. As sheep we are only as good as the shepherd over us. If we are lead to good pasture where there is plenty then there is safety and joy. If our pasture is barren and lifeless then we are hungry and not being feed and we are thirsty with nothing to drink. We will start to bleat and be noisy and wander off, looking for anything to eat. A good shepherd cares for us all no matter what kind of sheep we are, a bad one culls the herd keeping only those most prized. Forgetting that the blood covers a multitude of sins or just not willing to apply it to all sheep. Many of us have wandered off and left the pasture looking for a good shepherd and I pray that you all have it. I pray for the rest of us left that god will intervene and change the hard hearts of men. I want to eat with the sheep in the front pasture and be loved despite my three legs and eyepatch. I know that you did too. My prayer is that wherever you have been scattered God has gathered you up and kept you safe in his own hands and set you in a pasture full of life and safety.
What is the moral of this sheep tale, you ask? Simply put ….there are more three legged sheep out there than you know and while they smell bad, and don’t always listen well, Jesus is their good shepherd too. He loves us all and if we want to be like Jesus then we better hurry up and start loving each other.
OMG I really suck at this computer thing. Deb, help can you remove some of the bottom. All sorts of stuff popped up I did not mean to print. LOL I am such a mess.
@ dee:
Until the Internet, the person who controlled the printing press or the microphone or the podium had the power. Not anymore. The web is the great leveler.
@ rebeccalynn:
rebeccalynn,
I understand. life is darn messy — even those people who always seem to present the perfect, tidy, & happy image are full of mess. Don’t be too hard on yourself about your feelings. They are what any normal, healthy person would feel. you are processing. it takes time.
As far as forgiveness goes and how it can free us, I’m pretty disillusioned with Christian culture’s approach, which I see as being shaming, heavy on the overspiritualized mandate, & light on the practical how and why.
I’ve gotten a lot out of Fred Luskin’s work (Stanford Univ.). He has a book “Forgive For Good”, and he is featured in “This Emotional Life” (documentary shown on PBS). Amazing true stories of forgiveness.
I hope you can be shame-free & allow yourself permission to feel ugly mess as you go through the process.
@ rebeccalynn:
Oh Rebecca….I know a thing or two about forgiveness. One day soon I’ll be able to tell you my story, and you’ll understand what 132 means. But you’re the better person of the two and you are not defined by Kevin Galloway.
Galloway is a clown…just working in the wrong show. Hang in there. Some AOG are okay and some are hyper-charismatic. I’ve been in a couple of both but the regular AOG can indeed be quite healthy.
Consider this a HUG!
Janey wrote:
I’d been overusing my usual links to “Soviet Censorship of Images” (with examples of the Disappearing Commissars that were some of Orwell’s inspiration) and wanted to vary it a bit.
Really says something when the “perfect descriptions” of these Men-o-GAWD and their churches come from a novel-length political cartoon of the most vicious and nasty dictators and regimes of the past century.
dee wrote:
“If the Führer wants it, two and two makes five!”
— Reichsmarshall Hermann Goering
Comrade O’Brian, Inner Party: “How much is two plus two?”
6079 Smith W, Outer Party: “Four.”
Comrade O’Brian, Inner Party: “And if the Party decrees it is not Four but Five?”
dee wrote:
Another way to coverup evil in the church – label telling the truth about church leaders’ misdeeds as “gossip” and never discuss the misdeeds themselves.
I prefer a Biblical approach – “You will know the truth and the truth will set you free”
Eagle wrote:
…………………..
Why can’t, won’t, these supposed manly, gospelly leaders address the real issues of their own churches, organizations? Especially those of their own cliques,denominations?
No, instead they want to takeover (by stealth) non neo Cal churches because we supposedly need their biblical defections, dictates.
So instead of admitting the gospelly truth of what they are up to in all things missional, they want to shift the emphasis away from themselves…….Deflect any and all wrongdoing and blame it on a couple of women who write a blog.
Whimperers and babies these men are. Stand up like men and take your licks.
I have been pondering, for some while, the appropriateness of the title “Acts 29”; I think it not unreasonable to interpret the title as claiming that they are continuing where the book of Acts left off.
In the same vein, then, I have decided to re-brand my world-changingly brilliant blog as Book 67.
Eagle wrote:
Eagle, I’m wishing you wouldn’t write thing like that. It does you no favors.
Not sure where else to post this but it is in response to your headline:
Looks like Tim Challies is bent out of shape about “gossip” blogs. Not so much about abuse. http://tinyurl.com/onv24u2
A few weeks ago, I posted ONE civil and respectful comment on Tim Challies’ blog in response to one of the issues he was addressing. (It was related to a discussion happening on this Wartburg Watch site.) I am NOT a troll, not by any definition of the word, but was simply wanting to engage in the discussion by leaving a simple comment.
The next time I tried to access his website to see if there were any responses, the connection was not completed and my screen went blank. I have tried to access his site repeatedly but to no avail. I can only assume that he has chosen to isolate my account and totally block me from even reading his content.
Since I can’t access his site and I can’t remember the details or title of the post, I am curious if anyone else who posts on this blog has been blocked by Tim Challies?
@ rebeccalynn: Done 🙂
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
Brilliant. Or might I suggest: Bible, Vol 2.
@ Eagle:
These young guys are stuck. Held captive. They have to toe the party line.
They receive the whispered warnings to stay in the fold. The little threats to teach a certain thing.
@ rebeccalynn:
What do you need to be removed?
@ Seneca Griggs:
Well, tit for tat. You write things people wish you wouldn’t which do you little good. Empathy, man,empathy/
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
Book 67-you have a awesome sense of humor. Thank you for making me laugh as I drink my coffee this morning.
rebeccalynn wrote:
A shout out to Faith Assembly from North Carolina!
@ rebeccalynn:
Boy, did they ever mess up by letting you leave their church. What a blessing you are! God will use you in many ways in the coming years. In fact, this experience will only serve to increase your empathy for the wounded and you will be able to be a support to others.
It is your story that people who are against “blogging rags” want to hide. They want to pretend that you are not out there and that the church functions just fine and all pastors are made of sugar and spice. Your story needed to be heard. It is being read by many. It will help others.
@ JeffT: It is so hard for these guys. All their buddies keep getting into trouble;what with plagiarism, child sex abuse allegations, etc. It makes it a bit tough to pretend that all is well in Calvinstaville.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
It says it can be 5 somewhere in Leviticus.
@ BlockedbyChallies:
We have a page called “My comment was deleted.” It happens on Challies site and others. These guys want to pretend that everything they write is “glorious” and that no living being could ever think otherwise.
Since starting this page, a few guys have gotten embarrassed and have started allowing negative comments. Kevin De Young is one of those. He just allowed a bunch of pushback on his post about thoughts on NeoCalvinism and we say “bravo.”
Don’t get me wrong. They have a right to delete whatever they darn well please. It just gets a bit silly when comments all says something like “You are soooo wonderful and brilliant” and that is all you read.
You are not alone is the bottom line.
For example, here is a comment that was not allowed on Challies site written by Dave AA-a regular TWW reader. he references a post in which we noted that Challies was deleting comments.
http://thewartburgwatch.com/my-comment-was-deleted/
Blog: Challies.com
Post: Should You Go to T4G? http://www.challies.com/interviews/should-you-go-to-t4g
Date: 10/18/11
Editor: David Kjos
Comment: “They have healed the wound of my people lightly, saying, ‘Peace, peace,’ when there is no peace.” Jer. 6:14 and 8:11
Deleted: Same day
Deleted because: The article referred to praised C J Mahaney as “exactly the kind of man we want to stand with”. These identical verses by Jeremiah expressed my opinion that CJ is NOT the kind of man we should stand with–that CJ has seriously wounded many, and caused much strife, which T4G brushed aside lightly.
More at http://thewartburgwatch.com/2011/11/04/tim-challies-deleting-both-scripture-and-hurting-people-a-request-from-sgm-refuge/
BlockedbyChallies wrote:
I’ve posted comments at Tim Challies’ site which were deleted, but he never blocked my access to his site. The deletions occurred long before I discovered this blog.
If you want to visit Challies’ site, I’m sure you could do so from a computer at your local public library.
Dave A A wrote:
Is this the same John Carpenter?
Mark Driscoll, Ergun Caner and the Scandal of Evangelical Integrity by John Carpenter
I understand wanting to make Christians aware of wrong doing by self professing Christians, to warn other Christians of not being lied to, cheated, misled.
What I have a hard time grasping are these types of guys (such as Carpenter) who feel it’s their duty to jump to the defense of preachers, particularly the wealthy mega church types?
BlockedbyChallies wrote:
Use a proxy server to get around blocking. Here’s one source of info:
http://whatismyipaddress.com/using-proxies
Daisy wrote:
1) “One hand washes the other…”
2) Tabaqui the Jackal, brown-nosing Shere Khan in the hope of some scraps from the tiger’s kill.
3) “If the Fuehrer says so, two plus two equals five!”
dee wrote:
That anything like Pi = 3?
Mark wrote:
One of the dirty little secrets of megachurches is that they have to keep recruiting on the front end to make up for the sheeple escaping out the back door.
Daisy wrote:
My best guess it that these young guys idolize these (in their minds) “great men of God” and want to ‘be’ like these men. It’s sort of a “Rock Star Preacher” mentality. The rock star fans wish they could live the rock star life and have no tolerance for anyone pointing out the flaws in the system they are whoring after.
dee wrote:
For a blogger to accept comments yet delete those that respectfully disagree and/or ask uncomfortable questions is cowardly. Moreover, I also consider that a form of lying since you are giving the false impression that all who read it and comment agree with you.
JeffT wrote:
Thanks for that helpful tip, JeffT.
I’m not too techi-savvy but I’ll give that a try.
Thanks Dee and Deb for the excellent work you are doing here.
@ Daisy:
There are some annoying displays blocking out the commentary, first an ad and then a Twiiter feed on a black screen which can’t be removed without refreshing the page, thus bringing back the ad. Does the Christian Post want anyone reading their site?
@ BlockedbyChallies:
He has a long history of this. Or he shuts down comments. They cannot take it. That is why they call all disagreement, analysis of their teaching/writing gossip/sin. I wish they would grow up and act like manly men.
Janey wrote:
This is true. There was one blog, SBCVoices, where it became obvious Ed Setzer of failed church planting fame was pulling the strings backstage. Amazing how dependent these guys are on the celebrity gurus.
Southwestern Discomfort wrote:
Yes, this is the dirty little secret. The other dirty secret are that their published numbers are a lie. They don’t “report” “members”, they report “attendees” and the highest count is always published even though it might have been 10 years ago.
Seneca Griggs wrote:
Being a hypocrite is more godly. Protecting those who protect child molesters even MORE godly in your world, sadly.
@ Mara:
John Carpenter is something else. He was on the other Throckmorton’s blog yesterday (“Mark Driscoll’s Death By Love And Dan Allender’s The Wounded Heart: Is This Plagiarism?“) complaining about there being yet another post on Driscoll there, then he complained about people leaving long responses in the thread about Driscoll.
But then he goes and has a long post about Driscoll in the Christian Post today. 🙄
@ singleman:
I don’t know, but it sure seems that way. A lot of sites are doing that these days, presenting you with a really big ad you have to click to make go away.
@ dee: and you don’t write reviews of office equipment! (Desks, etc.)
Anon 1 wrote:
Just like Scientology!
@ Nick Bulbeck: lolz
@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
Pi = 3 is a good first approximation, just don’t try to use it with modern engineering technology.
@ singleman:
The little x was there on my screen to get rid of the advert.
@ numo: Darn: I planned to tell you how much I like my new office chair.
Regarding the quote about bloggers not being accountable…..that’s the pinnacle of hypocrisy. These clowns in A29 are accountable to nobody and that’s why I say it’s the height of hypocrisy for these guys to call out bloggers. Pot, meet kettle.
Anon 1 wrote:
Anon 1…I still think Seneca should be a marriage counselor. In the end its quite easy in his world. He can tell the woman in every mariage one of three answers.
1. John Piper says you submit…
2. Are you sinfully craving answers?
3. Carolyn wants those counter tops clean! 😛
dee wrote:
Wasted away again in Calvinistaville
searchin’ for my lost shaker of salt..”
(with apologies to Jimmy Buffett)
Please join me in calling out The Christian Post for publishing an opinion piece by the hatemonger John B. Carpenter. He is already using it as a forum to abuse anyone who comments in opposition to his point of view. Please go on the site and request respectfully that they take it down. He is even abusing their own moderator…thanks, just go to the comment section and call for it to come down. I don’t know if they will, but I would like to try…thanks again. rebecca
@ rebecca lynn:
The moderator of the site has deleted (with good reason) several comments by– JC, the author of the OP! I’ve never seen a moderator have to do THAT before. She can post the stuff she’s deleted in our “My Comment Was Deleted” thread– first time the “deleterator” would do that themselves!
hey Dave after talking to someone on the phone the whole article is gone. I think they looked at his comments I copied and pasted and did some digging. John B. Carpenter whole opinion story is not being found…
@ rebecca lynn:
Yep– 404– Not found! His thanksgiving piece is still alive and well on CP.
@ Daisy:
@ rebecca lynn:
@ Dave A A:
Good job everyone. Keeping Christian Post safe from abusive, self-righteous zealots. (ASZ for short)
dee wrote:
I don’t threaten people dee; I try to avoid ad hominen attacks. It’s kinda like watching my tongue; epic failure so many, many times but I still think I should watch what I write about others. You, of course, can encourage your commentors to attack others or discourage personal attacks. That’s your perogative.
@ Anon 1:
This comment from 2011 tells us all we need to know about Seneca: http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2011/08/christa-brown-makes-clear-case-for.html?showComment=1313076039843#c5839894566419876957
An Attorney wrote:
Unless you’re the possibly apocryphal lawmaker who tried to define Pi = 3 by law because the Bible Says So. (Specifically, the dimensions of the “brazen sea” in the Temple of Solomon — “ten cubits across and thirty cubits around”.)
Just recently, I read a Web posting where someone PROVED the Bible to be Accurate in those dimensions: The ten cubits was the OUTSIDE diameter of the basin in question and the thirty cubits the INSIDE circumference, not counting the thickness of the vessel itself. With all math/work shown.
Me? I just figure whoever was writing down the dimensions in the Bible just rounded Pi off to the nearest whole, that’s all. And a lot of hot air was spewed and ink spilled trying to “prove” other explanations.
Muff Potter wrote:
“Ol’ Douggie claims that it’s The Woman to blame,
But he knows (da da da da da)
It’s his own damn fault…”
singleman wrote:
This sounds like you might have some malware/virus in your computer. Or maybe you have installed a toolbar that promises something “free”. But the cost is those annoying ads and pop ups.
When I just checked out the site all I got was a signup box that was easily dismissed via the “x”.
Check your browser add ons (how to do this varies by browser) and see if you have some coupon add ins or other things. If you don’t know what some of them are then Google them.
And if it’s not an add in your allowed then check our your system using a REPUTABLE anti virus checker. If it has ads on late night TV it isn’t reputable.
@ GuyBehindtheCurtain:
Could be, but I’ve noticed that Christian Post has web design problems, I don’t think it’s a virus or malware.
Even the comment section at Christian Post behaves in an odd, buggy manner. It still acts buggy.
The Blaze also has some issues where their web design blocks articles or links on the page.
I like to increase the font size of my browser by hitting CNTRL and + and that makes it harder to dismiss the pop up ads on some sites (I have to decrease the font to shrink the ads down to find the close (x) link), and makes navigating the Blaze even harder.
Doesn’t seem to be an issue on too many other sites though.
I think Christian Post is just poorly designed.
Oh, don’t know if they’re still doing it, but a few months ago, CP had auto-playing advertisements, too, in their inside pages, not the home page. You’d click a link to read the article, and you’d be subjected to talking people or music. That was so annoying.
o, on the topic of “church planting,” I thought you guys might find this interesting. My church in the States is a fairly well-estabished Baptist church of about 800 in the Chicago suburbs. It’s been around for over 50 years and is doing just fine as far as attendance, new members, community ministry, supporting international missions (;)) and whatnot, though we have not “experienced growth” over the years, so obviously we’re screwing something up.
A few years back James MacDonald calls our pastor and asks if our church would let him come do a weeknight special event speaking engagement about “Community Outreach.” This was before some of the recent bad publicity, so the pastor thought, “Sure, he’s a well-known name in the area what with his show on Moody Radio and all and his huge church not too far from us, why not?” Plus they knew each other casually from various pastor’s networks in the area.
So, our church publicizes the event among our own congregation and in some neighboring churches, several hundred people come out to hear him speak on a Tuesday night or whatever it was. Then, instead of inspiring everyone to go out and make a difference in their community as the event was billed, he does a big advertisement for Harvest Church plants and announces they are coming to the neighborhood to start a new church and he is inviting everyone to get on board with them.
So our pastor takes him aside afterward and basically tells him that was really bad form. You don’t take over another pastor’s pulpit under a false pretense to try and convince his faithful members to jump ship and join your new church. So then, MacD has the audacity to say, well, let’s get together and talk, maybe we don’t need to do a competing church plant in town, maybe we can just come take over this church and make you a Harvest Church? Wouldn’t that be awesome? So the pastor was like, do you have any concept of how offended I am at the moment? Evidently not. Needless to say, Harvest Church network went way down in the estimation of our church and leadership.
@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
The cubit was not a very well defined number, being the length of a man’s arm from elbow to fingertip, or something similar, so that the error of measurement would be large enough to overwhelm the .14/3.14 = 4.46 percent approx.
Daisy wrote:
Been doing this for years. Always check for installed browser plug ins and possible malware before talking about the site itself. Unless it’s a slimy site. Which this one isn’t. Plug ins allowed so people can get coupons and such plus malware almost always are behind these things. Especially when most others aren’t seeing the same things.
GuyBehindtheCurtain wrote:
Happened to me about a month ago. A window came up that said I needed to update Firefox. I should have known better, but the window was a good copy of the Firefox window and I impulsively clicked ok. Ruined everything. I have a couple good virus checkers and they showed hundreds of files that should been deleted. I was afraid to remove that many, so had to take the computer to the “doctor.” He had to reinstall Windows. I should have known better but I was in a hurry and as I said, it looked so legit. Windows popped up everywhere one after the other and I couldn’t x them out. Awful!!
__
“Has Jesus’ Church Been clip’d?”
hmmm…
Christy
As you are aware, many of these mega church pastors are infected with a viral infection called ‘church growth’. When this infection occurs, people, local community concerns, foreign missions efforts, and especially following the words of Jesus, go out the proverbial church window. The common denominator apparently is the rash of Neo-Calvin Clipping (NCC) where individuals hijack 16th century Reformation era reformer John Calvin’s documents and attempt to build a faux Christian movement. Remember how a cancer cell works. It fakes out the normal cells into thinking it is one of the guys; then it takes over, in the end the healthy patient dies. So it is with this toxic stuff – it goes in, and the patient (the local church) is corrupted and diverted from its true mission which is to tell people about Jesus, and his wonderful salvation.
The thief comes to kill, to steal, to destroy, however, I came that they might have life, – and that life, more abundantly! ~Jesus
The Neo-Calvinist will ‘steal’ your prospect of abundant life in Christ…
IF YOU LET THEM.
IF YOU LET THEM.
…IF Y-O-U LET THEM!!!
(sadface)
*
Come unto me all you kind folk who are haven laden, and I shall give you comfort. ~Jesus
(Smily face goes here)
Sopy
—
Nicholas wrote:
I honestly despair for him every time I read one of these comments. Paper righteousness seems so much more important to him than the actual welfare of children who have been forcibly raped by adults. Why does he show so little love for them? What would Jesus prioritise?
Christy wrote:
Wow. Just wow.
Harvest Church sounds more like a cancer than a church.
And what a horrible use of a name. Instead of harvesting the fields, they are trying to take over farm houses. Yet they are so corrupt in their thinking that they don’t even understand how anyone could see anything wrong with their cancerous growth.
I’ve had my Whiskey Tango Foxtrot moment for this morning.
I am a Baptist pastor and I am not ashamed nor afraid to say I don't put any stock in what Mark Driscoll has to offer. Standing before a congregation (I suppose) with a Mickey Mouse shirt and chain around his neck exemplifies his irreverence to a Holy God. The Bible teaches us to stand in God's presence with reverence to him because He IS Holy. As pastors, we should be setting the example for our congregations in how we REPRESENT our Lord as his under-shepherd. We have become so nonchalant in our worship as to please man and ourselves that God must be displeased with us. Mr. Driscoll seems to be trying to build a following for himself and not a following for Christ. What few times I have seen him in video, he refers more to Mark Driscoll than to Jesus and his saving power. Though I have never read any of his publishings, and don't intend to, what I have heard and read about him is enough to turn me away. We need to be winning souls and not followings.
@ Ronnie:
Reverence doesn’t have anything to do with clothing. Your judgment of people based on what they wear is superficial and foolish.
Everything is permissible…but not always beneficial. This is a very important key scripture. Driscoll’s discerning of things via images is nothing new to Christianity. This is a gift. What Driscoll fails to understand is that he is not AT ALL in control of this gift, and not every word of knowledge given to him by the Holy Spirit is meant to be blurted out. His piety is appears to come from the flesh in the posted video…but then, that could just be me.
All believers need to be careful how they explain the Gifts of the Spirit. Some denominations do not even believe the Gifts exists after the era of Apostles…but, that is another issue.