"We are committed to develop and train leaders to plant Gospel-centered churches in Chicagoland, and North America. Our goal is to plant healthy, reproducing, multiplying Gospel-centered churches in our generation by planting churches that plant other churches."
Church Planting, Christ Church website
ChurchWe are continuing our look at Christ Church, which is a member of the Acts 29 Network as well as The Gospel Coalition.
According to the Acts 29 website, there are six affiliated churches in the state of Indiana, and half of those fall under the Christ Church umbrella. However, as we understand it, the Valparaiso church plant no longer exists and is not included on the Christ Church website. Perhaps the A29 web administrator needs to update the directory to reflect this…
As we have been investigating what happened at Countryside Christian Church (now Christ Church), we wondered about the facility that was vacated (abandoned). The current real estate listing includes the following property description:
The subject property was built in 1981 and added onto in 1987 and 2001. It is a 52,865 +/- SF structure situated on a 19.7+/- acre plot that has been used in the past as a religious and school facility. Located in the South suburbs of Michigan City and North of La Porte City.
Here are the features of this property, which is listed at $1.1 million.
Over 30 classrooms & numerous executive offices
Auditorium seats several hundred – possible to partition
Full size basketball/athletic gymnasium & commercial grade kitchen
Single elevator system
500+ Parking spots on-site
Covered drive-thru traffic area
It must be heartbreaking for those who were faithful members/attenders of Countryside to see the facility just sitting there vacant. Please be sure to check out the photos (at the link above) of the almost 53,000 square foot facility.
You are likely wondering where the Christ Church congregation currently meets. After they abandoned the large facility that is now on the market, they began meeting in a movie theater. This went on for several months until the congregation found its new location at 531 Washington Street, Michigan City, Indiana. It's located at the corner of 6th and Washington Street. If you search on this Google map, you should be able to see a church located near the street corner. We believe it may have been a Lutheran church at one time.
Remember, churches belonging to the Acts 29 network are required to plant churches. The current church plant is called Christ Church LaPorte, located at 802 Indiana Avenue (corner of Indiana and Jefferson). No doubt Christ Church is considered to be a success by the Acts 29 leadership.
Now that you have an understanding of Christ Church's meeting places, let's take a look at the church leadership. According to the website:
Jesus Christ is the "head of the body, the church" as taught in Colossians 1:18. Because of this, we consider Jesus as the leader, the "Senior Pastor," or the Head of Christ Church. The men who lead the church must lead like Jesus—not to replace him, but to follow him and serve his Church according to their need, as described in the Bible. Though our leaders are imperfect and incomplete, by God’s grace they can still reflect the One who teaches, loves, and leads the way to God for His glory and our joy.
The Christ Church elders are as follows: (link)
Kevin Galloway
Kevin is the Lead Pastor of Christ Church. He is the primary teaching/preaching pastor and is the lead visionary for the Christ Church ministry. Kevin designed and leads the Christ Church Leadership Development School and coaches many of the Christ Church leaders.
Kevin is a pastor with the Acts 29 Church Planting Network and is the network director of the Acts 29 Central Midwest Region. He is a pastor/coach to numerous pastors around the country…
Chuck Pollock
Chuck leads one of the Michigan City Missional Communities and is responsible for coaching and training other Christ Church deacons and Missional Community leaders. He is a graduate of the Christ Church Leadership Development School where he currently leads a cohort of emerging leaders… (Dee-Good night!)
Did you catch that? Kevin's fellow elder graduated from the Christ Church Leadership Development School. Not only that, Chuck leads a "cohort of emerging leaders". Now that's what Dee and I would call them…
Here is a description of the Leadership Development School as stated on the Christ Church website:
The Leadership Development School (LDS) exists to train men to effectively lead in their homes and in the local church in the centrality of the gospel. For the first time, this year’s LDS is open to women as well. This training is an intensive class consisting of 2 semesters that will focus on the areas of leadership, counseling, pastoral care, marriage and family, worship and mission.
While there is no cost for the class, each student is responsible to purchase applicable books/resources for each semester.
And here are the recommended books that those attending LDS likely read. As an aside, I (Deb) used to attend Sunday School with the author whose book is featured twice on this list. It must be doubly important!
In addition to its leadership development school, Christ Church also has a Church Planting Residency Program. Here are the details:
Through a one-year residency at Christ Church in Michigan City, IN, participants will receive a realistic experience of life and ministry in a church planting church while preparing to plant a church in North America. Residents receive assessment, training and ongoing coaching through Christ Church and associated networks (Acts 29) while recruiting, fundraising, and developing strategy for the future plant.
Church Planting
We are committed to develop and train leaders to plant Gospel-centered churches in Chicagoland, and North America.
Our goal is to plant healthy, reproducing, multiplying Gospel-centered churches in our generation by planting churches that plant other churches.
Application/Cost
The residency is twelve months in length. An application and assessment are required to be considered.
Participants in the program must raise funds for the cost of their living expenses, insurance, etc.
Among the core compentencies is this one:
Learn the vision, values, and philosophy of ministry (DNA) of Christ Church.
Internships are also available.
With all the training that is going on in the leadership development school, residency program, and internship program, one has to wonder how Kevin Galloway has time to pastor the Christ Church congregation.
Church planting churches… the more I learn about how the Acts 29 machine operates, the more I am developing a disdain for this phrase. And to think that some in the Southern Baptist Convention actually believed with all their hearts that Mark Driscoll and his Acts 29 Network held the secrets to successful church planting for the SBC and that A29 and 'Big Papa D' have been getting a bad rap…
Dee will be chiming in with more on this topic in our upcoming post. Stay tuned…
Lydia's Corner: Isaiah 25:1-28:13 Galatians 3:10-22 Psalm 61:1-8 Proverbs 23:17-18
Leadership training for women? They might actually let them lead? I really would like to take a look at that syllabus. How can one lead if one must be silent?
@ Tired:
Thanks for calling attention to that! Here's the pertinent excerpt:
See more at: http://www.christchurchnwi.com/leadership-development-school#sthash.tpxOWbvL.8WVAD1JD.dpuf
Perhaps Kevin Galloway's wife will be doing this part of the training. Anyone know?
@ Deb:
Hmmm . . . the “I Do” category on the recommended reading list has the largest number of books at eight. Maybe the women are busy reading in that category. They can learn how to be the perfect wives to complement their leader hubbies, and make sure they learn not to give any unsolicited advice and follow two steps behind at all times.
(off topic)
This seems more like a Mark Driscoll-like move to me, but this is from Steve Furtick’s Elevation Church:
UFC Fighter Vitor Belfort Beats Up Distracted Churchgoers in New Commercial for Megachurch
I’m confused. They state that —
“The Leadership Development School (LDS) exists to train men to effectively lead in their homes and in the local church in the centrality of the gospel.”
So what are the women going to do? They have no purpose according to this description đ
How does one lead in the centrality of the gospel anyway? And I see that only men can do this . . . according to this bunch.
They say that Jesus is at the head of their churches and that they lead as He did. But their own actions speak otherwise so apparently the name of Jesus is used as a draw only.
âChurch planting churchesâ sounds like the makings of a kind of Multi-level marketing indeed very much like a pyramid scheme.
The results of their efforts seem to be razed churches, broken relationships with family and society, and simply great disappointment.
There seems to be nothing charitable or spiritual about these people. Perhaps legal action is appropriate if for no other reason than to make it clear that they do nothing truly in His Name.
LDS ?
LOL !
Best regards to Eagle.
@ Bridget:
“…to train men to effectively lead in their homes and in the local church in the centrality of the gospel.â
+++++++++++
sheesharooni, just what convolution of the word “gospel” have they concocted, anyway? isn’t it simply the good news that God isn’t mad at us, but loves us?
I mean, we could discuss this wondrous premise forever over a candle and a beverages of choice. But it seems to me it is meant to simplify everything. He loves me. Settled. And now God & I can go on together and do life together.
To simplify everything. Not complicate everything, for crying out loud!
I mean, if x = this good news, then surely y is not this level of complicated prescription about absolutely everything to the point that schools and textbooks and seminars and coaches are required. it’s like they’ve turned it into astrophysics. And made themselves the astrophysicists, and everyone else is merely qualified to sharpen their pencils.
I understand it creates jobs and topics for sermons and books…. keeps people occupied, gives them something to do with a purpose that can be remunerated….
but really, it’s like taking a pure, simple thing (like cheese) & exploiting the living daylights out of it beyond all recognition.
and then you have velveeta.
@ elastigirl: aka pasteurized processed cheese food, like it says in the fine print on the label.
Or maybe it’s Cheez Whiz, which is even worse…
When I was growing up in NE Ohio, my parents (lay people from the South) were recruited by the pastor and some lay people to help an independent Baptist Church affiliate with the SBC. Within a few years, that church began helping to start "mission churches". The church would be working on two sites at the same time, one a first year and one a second year effort, with two week VBS, a revival meeting every night the second week, canvassing with college student summer missionaries, etc. The goal was that at least every two years there would be a new church planted. The Ohio Baptist Convention helped to identify the locations and possible mission pastor with some funding (pastoral stipend) available from the SBC and the state convention. Some of the sites were an hour away (in the early years). This was in the 1950s and 1960s.
So what is new and hip? The churches were clearly identified as SBC, there was an effort to recruit young seminary graduates, and the theology and polity were traditional Baptist — lay led churches in the Baptist mainstream of the day, with SBC seminary educated pastors.
Tired wrote:
…….,……………..
Most likely it instructs the women to grab hold of younger women /new women in the congregation, and make sure they learn to be led around by the men.
Anon wrote:
My thoughts exactly. Who came up with that for a Christian training program?
Tod wrote:
Your comment definitely bears repeating.
MLM is a great way to describe these outlets for Mark Driscoll 'merchandise'. No wonder Tyndale House defended its MD brand.
In other, more important news, Harold Camping has ( like Elvis) “left the building.”
This post opened my eyes. This is very similar to what’s happening at my old mega-church.
My former church used to have an impressive weeknight theology series for lay people. It drew speakers from professors at the local seminaries and Christian colleges. But it was shut down despite being very popular. The leader was forced into retirement and given a party despite his objections.
A year later a new weeknight theology series was started again, this time led by two John MacArthur bullies (no theological training) and their cronies ONLY.
Ever since the bullies got positions of power in the church, the best young pastors moved on and the attendance has dropped 30%. The mega-church cannot seem to grow despite being in a high-population area. Money continues to come in for now, and that covers up the disaster of a half-filled sanctuary. Quietly, the good families in their 40s and 50s are simply disappearing.
@ Janey:
One of our reasons for focusing on these trends is to alert our unsuspecting brothers and sisters in Christ.
Five years ago I was involved in a church plant that was being influenced by Acts 29. Believe it or not, I didn't know anything about Mark Driscoll at the time. Ignorance is NOT bliss!
Janey wrote:
………………………………….
Similar circumstances at my old church. ( except it was not a mega )
The new lead teachers are 27 and 30 they push, push, push, PIPER. (books, study guides, website,etc.) Integrated Sunday Schools and very child centric taechings.
Hardly a parishioner over 42 attends anymore……full of children under 10….. no middle age or above feel welcome in the services.
Tired wrote:
Women are allowed to lead other women. And by “lead” I mean police. That’s how women in this system can get really mean…the only power and influence you are allowed comes from playing the patriarchal game better than anyone else and pointing out women who are “failing” …in love and concern for their joy, of course.
Lin wrote:
And make double darn sure that your money isn’t contributing to this nonsense.
Middle aged and older people have an advantage. They tend to be the biggest givers to the churches. What happens when they stop giving?
Deb wrote:
And where is that church plant now? Gone. However, I bet the leaders left with some good perks like IPads, etc. Not bad for an unsuccessful plant. But, I could be wrong.
Arce wrote:
These days, along with the church plant, they get IPads, IPhones, money for conferences, car money, deductions for house. Who cares if the church fails? They did fine for a minimal effort.
Janey wrote:
Watch these numbers in church plants. The latest trend is to say that these people weren’t really Christians and just taking up pew space. We will be covering this in a later post.
@ elastigirl:
Coming your way soon . . . the NEW and IMPROVED CHEEZYLISHISH gospel!
Maybe someone should file a deception in advertising suit?
Joking aside, it is all very sad to me. A simple meal, wine, and shared life sounds much more authentic, even palatable, to me.
dee wrote:
Is it really gone now? How sad đ
What’s truly disgusting about this model of ‘church planting’ is that it’s not church planting at all. These Calvinistas are parasites! They stealthily invade an existing church and suck the lifeblood and money out of it for their own personal gain and to train more parasites to go out and do the same thing. There’s no Gospel being spread here, only pestilence.
It’s been discussed a lot here and maybe someone needs to produce a manual for church leaders on determining what type of minister they are hiring. If the church chooses to shift direction and concentrate its resources on planting other churches and paying large salaries, so be it as long as they knew what they were getting into. The same goes for any other theology and view of a church’s mission – churches really need to get more information on what their pastoral candidates theology and plans are. This is especially true if the candidate has no degree from a seminary and is not subject to a rigorous ordination process by a denomination. A seminary degree and rigorous ordination at least some basis for their theology and intellectual training – without either of those your dealing with a complete unknown.
Daisy wrote:
Is this a commercial that’s aired on public television, or a commercial you get to watch while awaiting the appearance of Pastor Furtick on a Sunday morning? Revolting is the only way I can describe this nonsens.
It appears like the people at your average theater pay better attention to the upcoming movie than Furtick’s parishioners pay to him. Something is amiss with this scenario. Maybe the folks at Elevation are just bored when the music isn’t blasting at them? Seems to me that the kind folks at Elevation are responding appropriately to the way they have been trained.
People keep mentioning the average age of A29 members in these comments. When my husband and I attended an A29 church, we were struck at how we (both 30) were literally the oldest people in attendance. It was the first sign something was a little off. We thought maybe that we had attended a service that was mostly college aged, but nope. We tried the other two service times and we were still at end part of the age bell curve. It was very strange.
I’m not sure why churches get caught up in this planting scheme. It’s not unique to A29. More money, maybe? I could never get behind any church’s push to plant another when the “home” church itself was barely hanging on by a thread. I saw this happening over and over as well. I live in an area where there are two relatively major cities less than 2 hours away from each other. You’d be amazed how many churches are foaming at the mouth to get their campus plants in the other city. It’s like some sort of insane church war. Very bizarre.
dee wrote:
I believe we saw what happens with Countryside. Talk about downsizing! I thought Acts 29 was into expansion.
@ Dis:
Sounds like a Tower of Babel problem to me . . . and they’re going up everywhere.
Lin wrote:
Marthas to the new Handmaids.
Just like Campus Crusade’s “Multiplying Ministry”. Or Amway. Or a pyramid scheme with the original Planting Pastor as the Upline on top of the list.
Dis wrote:
I find this kind of church planting to be highly unethical. It's called sheep stealing, and churches where I live are being negatively impacted by church plants that encroach upon them. One of the megas that is planting a church in our area has already been mentioned in this thread.
Lin wrote:
The healthiest and most spiritually fulfilling churches I have know all had as a key component the inclusion of all generations in major activities such as mission trips, fundraising, food shelves, activities in the community, worship, etc. For a church to disregard any segment of society whether it be older people, young people, single people, women, minorities, etc. is to not be a Christian church.
Daisy wrote:
If you haven’t found the video of Mr. Vitor, here it is. I know they are trying to be funny, but it comes off as scary and manipulative. And not very gospelly.
http://vimeo.com/79346020
For what its worth, the exterior views of the Countryside building look very similar to a church that was my home church for many years. They recently merged with another church, and have basically ceased to exist, but at least the building is being utilized by a bunch that isn’t “elevated.”
@ Gary:
Thanks so much for sharing that video. I wonder what they do to the gals who are misbehavin' in church…
I AM NOT IMPRESSED!
Elevators (as they like to call themselves) need to wake up!
The required books reveal the true character of Acts 29 as patriarchal goons. Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womenhood is one of the required books. The reading list also contains books by Mark Discoll and John Piper.
Bridget wrote:
Stay home, sew, and Make Babies.
(Also service their Manly Man Hubby — PENETRATE! COLONIZE! CONQUER! PLANT!)
Some complementarian churches have leadership positions available for women, you just have to change the title from pastor to ministry director. đ My church (BGC-Converge, John Piper’s denomination, though our pastor is not Reformed)recommends many of the same books as Gospel Coalition and A29, but there are plenty of members who have an egalitarian take on marriage and women in leadership, and we’re allowed to stick around and I feel I get a voice. The women on staff preach on Sunday a few times a year, lay women teach adult Sunday School and lead small groups, serve communion, pray and read Scripture in the service, and head ministries and mentor and train others of both genders. The elder and deacon boards and pastors are men, but the boards are currently investigating whether women should be invited to serve as deacons. Several of the pastors think so.
It’s important to remember churches are moving in both directions on these issues, so if all the Evangelical feminists in more conservative churches bail on them, they are almost certain to move in the Driscoll direction. I just read Unseduced and Unshaken (edited by Rosie De Rosset of Moody Bible Institute.) Although some of it made me cringe, a lot I could say a hearty “amen” to. It was very interesting to see how some strong and gifted women within the complementarain/traditional roles structure are calling for women to be “formidable and spirited,” to stop “self-silencing” around men in church and find their voice.
“Here are the features of this property, which is listed at $1.1 million.”
When the property sells, who gets the cash from the sale? In other words, who owns the property, Acts 29?
That would be whoever is on the deed! And that would be after the bank gets paid, any taxes (no longer used as a church, so subject to real estate tax), and the bank gets their legal expenses, etc. Most church deeds refer to a group of trustees, some refer to a denomination board, etc. Unless the takeover group managed to file legal paperwork to amend the deed (it would have had to have been accepted by the lien holder — the bank), it likely is the board of trustees of the original church. If they have not been replaced and there has been no assignment of the deed, those trustees will receive the money for Countryside Church. I see a lawsuit in the future if there is any money left over. BTW, church buildings generally sell for a lot less than they cost to build, b/c they are limited purpose buildings.
Daisy wrote:
Daisy & Gary–this is truly a frightening video. Scary how the “Creative Guy” mentions that people are leaving before the end of the ‘experience’, which sounds more like a bad performance that you can’t leave or a dictator who compels attendance at his rantings.
Even though this is presented as humor, you can bet there’s a good deal of wounded vanity behind the ‘Leadership” deciding to tackle the ‘problem’ in this way…
By contrast, in my small, non-Reformed Baptist/Community Church, if these 3 behaviors were noticed, especially repeatedly, someone in the congregation would probably check to see if they were sleeping because they were working 2 jobs (and needed help) or staying up nights with a very sick person (and needed help).
The clock-watcher would probably be seen as someone who has an urgent event which might be a distressing one (and needed encouragement or prayer), the one who leaves the ‘experience’ early would probably be known as a local physician, EMT, Utility Worker or Law Enforcement on call during bad weather, etc. At least a few of us would pray for that person to be safe or be able to do good stuff in their job….
Or the early leavers/text-checkers could just be connected to the nursery or small kids areas and get a text that their child needs his parents…
In short, at least some of us would extend those people the courtesy of thinking the best of that person, and also to think firstly–“is there a problem that I can help with?”
Bridget wrote:
They use the acronym LDS? Wow. That’s a bit of a blooper.
@ Anon:
When I worked in retail all these years ago, LDS meant “ladies clothing” in the soft goods department.
@ An Attorney:
I am willing to bet that there is no money left after the bank and lien holders get their share.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
…………………
My thoughts too. Definitely will be a pecking order established.
Mother wrote:
Yes, this sums up my experience. They were the “nicest” mean girls in town. Thanks for describing it so succinctly.
JeffT wrote:
………..
Heartily agree.
Too often these takeover churches ridicule the older congregants and suggest they have grown soft in being biblical, missions minded. (Of course this is because they object to be taken over by neo Cals. Not being missions minded was a cover for going missional)
The single men /women got chased out because they refuse to be constantly tapped to administer nursery duties and Sunday schools and constantly listening to sermons on how wonderful married life is.
Sigh.
Lucy Pevensie wrote:
Darn, that’s good. i remember some reports on SGM Survivors in which “leader ladies” would rebuke “nonl-eader ladies” for not buttoning their shirt up higher and not keeping their kitchen counter clear. As protest, Dee makes sure that her kitchen counter is never fully clear in solidarity with my sisters who had to put up with such nonsense.
In other news, I forgot to ice my shin when I got back from today’s run. That’ll teach me to go running to soon before the weans are due hame.
On the plus side, it seems to be OK the noo.
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
North Carolina gal needs a translation.
weans = “wee yins” or “wee ones” = children
hame = home (cf “mabile phane”)
the noo = now (cf “themorrer” = tomorrow, “theday” = today)
Och aye the noo = semantically meaningless Scottishism that nobody has ever actually said
Gonnae no dae tha’ = kindly refrain from that activity
Eh big man! = greetings, esteemed friend
Thuz heehaw ah can dae aboo’ ‘t = I am powerless to influence the current course of events
@ dee:
“…SGM …âleader ladiesâ would rebuke ânonl-eader ladiesâ for not keeping their kitchen counter clear. As protest, Dee makes sure that her kitchen counter is never fully clear in solidarity with my sisters who had to put up with such nonsense.”
+++++++++++++
Great Scott! That’s it! I knew there had to be something honorable about my kitchen counters! bet I’ve got more solidarity going on than you!
dee wrote:
Sort of a sinister version of the “No True Scotsman” fallacy?
Shading into the “New Soviet Man”?
I might add for Deb and Dee that Chuck Pollack worked for comcast our local cable company installing and has never attended to my knowledge any seminary. How sad for him the only training he has received is the brainwashing of the Acts 29 movement. He is not qualified to do anything other than install my cable and internet.
Lin wrote:
And nobody is as vicious in the pecking order as someone who was at the bottom of the heap and is now second from the bottom.
“If Ah can’t be better than a n****r, who do I got to be better than?”
— trailer-trash Klansman of the 1950s
rebecca lynn wrote:
Like Larry the Cable Guy except nobody’s laughing?
Molly245 wrote:
Exactly, Molly, it reminds me of the movie theater intro to turn off your cell phone or be asked to leave. Which is entirely appropriate in that context. But this does seem to turn “church” into some sort of performance in which normal life has to be suspended so that others aren’t distracted.
For a coup!e of years my family attended 2 different sorts of church. One was similar to this, very much a performance that we watched, and we were official “members.”. The other was a home group, like a big family, where there was no official membership, but we were all involved in each other’s lives in healthy ways. If someone didn’t show up at home group, we generally knew where they were, or if they weren’t feeling well, because we were actually “members” with each other, connected. But we quickly realized that when we didn’t show up for “performance church,” nobody even noticed. Our paper membership was meaningless, and it altered my understanding of “membership.”
I have a friend with small kidneys. We call him “tiny tank.”. He wouldn’t do well at Elevation.
Lin wrote:
Yet again, Salvation by Marriage Alone(TM).
Especially strong in male-supremacist churches.
Molly245 wrote:
“A bad performance you can’t leave” — like Caesar Nero on the lyre?
“A dictator who compels attendance at his rantings” — too many examples to count, but off the top of my head Stalin, Saddam, and Fidel Castro of six-hour-speech fame.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
A previous post talked about how a member was ‘perp walked’ out of church. Kind of reminded me of that chilling Saddam video early in his reign of terror where at a party meeting he read off names of people who were then escorted out of the room, never to be heard from again. While the Calvinistas are not able to inflict the same punishment as Saddam, the public removal and subsequent shunning of those who dare raise questions is effective in frightening the rest of the sheep.
I’m rapidly developing a deep-seated hatred for the words “vision” and “visionary.” And the phrase “vision casting” which is thrown around in some circles always makes me wonder if sweat lodges and peyote are involved. Seriously, it’s starting to get even worse than “winsome” and “gospel.”
re: ‘Daisy & Garyâthis is truly a frightening video. Scary how the âCreative Guyâ mentions that people are leaving before the end of the âexperienceâ, which sounds more like a bad performance that you canât leave or a dictator who compels attendance at his rantings.’
It is horrendous and also in my view offensive. It probably started off as a cool joke but it’s naive.
Readers from Elevation – if you think I am being over sensitive or if you made this video or are involved in this – think carefully about the imagery and where it all comes from – how totalitarian regimes deal with dissenters. For example, see the famous Saddam Hussein purge event – check out the similarities – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm64E5R12s8
Think carefully how your ‘joke’ plays to an external audience assessing a mega church with a powerful charismatic autocratic leader. Remember what you put in on internet goes round the world.
It’s all there in this video – terror – random selection of the innocent – blind folding (think where that imagery comes from recently?) – violent – torture.
Creative – not really – we’ve seen it all before – it’s all in the news – dull monotonous evil.
Also look carefully at non-verbal leakage Vitor Belfort as he explains the video (from 1.45 minute mark) – the incongruence between his eyes and his face – the sadness in his eyes as if his he not happy with what he is doing – but also the solid aggression in his mouth but overlaid with trying to maintain a smile because ‘it’s a joke.’ Vito looks weird because his emotions are conflicted. I think he is embarrassed doing this…. I really hope so.
By contrast, I love the words “vision” and “visionary” (but then again, I’m a None and I don’t have to listen to them ad nauseum). I hate the word “fellowship” for the same reason, mind you.
But I find no biblical basis for the role of “lead visionary”, and in fact I find the idea extremely deceptive and dangerous.
@ Nick Bulbeck:
With that definitive ruling, you can all rest easy in your beds now.
@ Hester:
âvisionâ and âvisionary.â And the phrase âvision castingâ
“lead visionary”
++++++++++++++++
to me, a visionary says “I have the idea. Now you go do it. Bye.”
but then there’s this “lead visionary” thing. I surmise there are assistant visionaries. hmmmm… multiple visions. But only one gets to come to fruition. Sounds both chaotic and antagonizing.
@ Daisy & Peter:
That Elevation video looks like it should be a joke. It’s just so out there. It isn’t funny of course; brutalizing people because they fell asleep or checked their phone in church isn’t acceptable. Even the Puritans prodded people and/or tickled them first.
Also, what the hey is a “creative pastor”? Is that position related to “lead visionary”? Notice also that said “creative pastor” mentioned people leaving church early, only he described it as leaving before the end of the “experience.” So at Elevation, worship apparently isn’t about God, but your personal emotional experience and/or emotional manipulation. But if you find said emotional experience/manipulation dissatisfying and leave before it’s over, they’ll get a cage fighter to beat you up. Because they’re seeker-sensitive…?
@ Hester:
“Also, what the hey is a âcreative pastorâ?”
++++++++++++++++++
something like a BBQ Pastor, Cycling Pastor, Mexican Food Pastor, Tatoo Pastor, Weight Lifting Pastor, Backpacking Pastor, Scrapbook Director, Bulb Gardening Director, Homemade Crust Director, and the Sheet-&-Towel-folding-so-it-all-looks-uniform-in-the-linen-cupboard Director. (all work the same number of hours, but directorships are a lower paygrade & don’t have offices)
Bridget wrote:
This is that gospel branding nonsense that will lead to the next generation of evangelicals eschewing the word altogether. I don’t know how this ridiculous branding got started, or how completely meaningless statements like this are actually put forth in public. I cringe.
The rapper…is an idiot.
@ Hester:
I agree. I think they were trying to be funny, but I found the idea disturbing.
Maybe prior to spending time on spiritual abuse blogs such as this or Julie Anne’s, I would’ve not seen a big deal with it, but after reading how horribly some churches have treated people, it doesn’t seem quite as funny.
Someone else above asked if this ad was on TV or what. I’m not sure. The article didn’t make it clear.
I don’t know if it’s only online, or if they showed it at their church before church, or if it’s been shown in their local area on TV.
Tired wrote:
Simple….women can lead in a lot of places! They can lead in the kitchen, they can lead when they are popping out their with kind in a year and they can follow the man in the bedroom! đ Does the woman know that her job is to submit!! Her place is in the kitchen and constantly pregnant!! (Unless she is Carolyn Mahaney!! đ )
@ Gary: Elevation and Steven Furtick have taken a PR beatdown and are in spin mode. Desperate people make careless mistakes like making this video. On the subject of training for planting Elevation is running a program called Prodigy that cranks out pastors certified by Elevation Church. These prodigies have no seminary experience. This is on par with most of the 24 "creative" pastors and associate pastors that make up Elevations current staff. Chunks Corbett, Chief Executive Pastor is a Physical Therapist by trade. Larry Hubatka, Creative Pastor, was a real estate agent. All take advantage of the tax free housing allowance but do very little if any actual traditional pastor duties.
Deb wrote:
Add to all this that Mark Driscoll claimed to have the “gift” of Real Estate Acquisition (seriously), and now we know how he gets his “gifted” Acquisitions.
Is Kevin Galloway also into blood atonement? Brigham Young used to run a brewery in Utah…so that will go along well with Acts 29. Although I am unsure if Brigham Young ran up a $288.00 liquor bill when he was just brewing his own stuff! đ
That video is a control technique. It is done in such a way that they can claim it is “funny”, but really, what are the people in the church going to go away knowing about how they are expected to behave in church after seeing the video. They know they are not supposed to fall asleep (or look tired), check their watches, leave early, go to the bathroom and “cause distraction” to the worshippers.
Been there – it makes the church look “bad” and the preacher look less than amazing if people are doing any of those things. So you work out a way to control people to get them to behave the way you want them to – and then you shame those who step out of line. And slowly freedom is eroded away.
@ Nick Bulbeck:
Don’t you mean
“och eye the neu, JIMMY?”
@ Eagle:
I have my own courses….
1. How to convince others to do your dirty work? OR Church Discipline for Dummies
2. Storytelling from the Pulpit
3. Making Friends and Excommunicating People
4. Creative Bookkeeping 101 OR Using the church credit card for PERSONAL gain…
5. Hostile takeover essentials.
Jesus is the Senior Pastor according to their interpretation of how the church is supposed to operate, based on how they define His role as “head of the church.” The Big Cheese. The Boss. Hope they gave Jesus the biggest office and a special parking place closest to the door with a sign designating that it’s for his car, and his car only. (And what kind of car would that be? Probably a Honda, because the bible says Jesus and his disciples arrived in one Accord.)
But of course rather than define Jesus as the Source of Life (head) to the church, the Servant Giver of Life who lays down his Life in order that the church receive from him it’s all in all, they have to make him out to be some type of authority figure with a title in order to prop up their belief in the church as a hierarchy. Despite the fact the bible never defines Jesus’ role in relation to the church as a leader or boss, these guys must make their Jesus that guy and bend and twist all scripture to conform to their belief in (gender) hierarchy.
The ladies in their LDS training classes probably have to raise their hands and receive permission to speak before they do. But best they learn in silence, and if they have a question to ask their husbands later when they get home.
@ Eagle:
Brigham Young was probably the inspiration behind Utahs’s Wasatch Brewing Company’s “Polygamy Porter.”
It’s motto: “Why have just one?”
http://www.wasatchbeers.com/polygporter.html
I understand the idea of having creative people on church staff. I have friends that do amazing creative work in that area, but I wouldn’t call them “pastors” unless they work with people. But 24 of them? What do they do all week? Can we have meetings without a slick custom video intro? Maybe its the intro that turns a normal meeting into a worship “experience.”. And maybe this video is what happens when creative people have too much time and budget to play with.
Or maybe it is something more.
Jennifer, I agree comp!etely, the video is an expression of a controlling culture. All media, whether music or literature or video or whatever, is an expression of a culture. Thats why the video goes beyond silly, and becomes disturbing.
Gary wrote:
Without slick and expensive video paid for by the tithes of the people, Christianity would not survive. Right?
I wish people would stop giving money for this nonsense.
@ Hester:
Did anyone think the “creative guy” was trying just a little too hard to appear hip?
Elevation Watch wrote:
This is a very interesting observation. “Creative pastors?” I would be interested in revisiting this issue after Christmas. Could you send me an email which will remain confidential?
@ Eagle: We have not heard from Galloway. I would love to hear his perspective on this mess. Today I am going to do a case study on Countryside/Christ Church and show, from our perspective, why it went south. I hope Acts 29 is paying attention. They still have the failed “church plant in Valpo” listed as a church on their website which calls into question the validity of their numbers.
Underlying message behind the Elevate video? If there is a problem – or perceived problem – it is never the fault of the leadership. The problem always lies with the lowly “members”.
If anyone is interested, Christ Church has sermon videos going back 9 months. It can be helpful to put a face with the name. I’ve only watched a bit, so I really can’t comment, but I hope that if anyone finds the videos aggravating, you will find something else to do. That’s my plan.
http://vimeo.com/christchurchnwi
dee wrote:
So is Acts 29 going to be like the Mormon Church in inflating its numbers, membership and chruch locations? Are there going to be “ghost” churches and members used to point to their brand of “success”
Maybe its appropriate for the Acst 29 network to borrow the LDS name!
All very interesting, having been seriously punked by leadership in our church recently.
On the up side, we are deliberately stepping away from the clergy/laity divide for a while. We found a good Bible study (actually more than one).
We intend to spend some time exploring the idea that Christianity is truly the only religion that requires no building or sacred space, no special clothing, and no trained shamans.
dee wrote:
I’s also like to hear from Matt Chandler and have him explain how wonderful Acts 29 has been for Christianity and the community, like how jettisoning preschool program, a Celebrate Recovery program, a food pantry, and missionaries brought ‘glory’ to God. Whatever ‘gospel’ Acts 29 promotes it ain’t Christian.
An Attorney wrote:
I think a sale near the asking price is adequate to cover the lien holders interest otherwise the lien holders would need to approve a short sale. I didn’t see the property listed as a short sale. But lets assume there is insufficient money left over, can the trustees be held personally responsible for the debts?
I know that sometimes the word cult, cult-like comes up to describe these dubious organizations. In thinking it over and reflecting on the time in my life when I flirted with Mormonism in college there are a couple of things to say.
I think many people need to remember that cults and cult like organizations have their benefits. You are instantly loved, accepted and you have a lot of new friends and really nice people who are now a part of your life. I think many mainstream churches struggle with this issue of communities and as a result many people struggle with loneliness. This is one of the reason why I deeply oppose mega churches because they exacerbate the problem. But many cult like groups can offer community which mainstream churches struggle to do. And for the record instead of being obsessed with growth I wish many churches would focus on this issue â because it is a serious issue.
But I think this is why Acts 29 Churches flourishâŚI once heard that cults are the baggage of the Christian church and there is a lot of truth to that statement.
@ dee:
It’s really horrifying to realize that the people on the receiving end of this message (sit down, be quiet, be attentive, don’t leave) are the ones that paid the salaries of the people who produced it — yikes!! Isn’t this paying to be abused?
I also remember Furtick explaining that Elevation was all about the experience and relating to a certain crowd to get them in the door; hence the hip pastors, appealing music, cool atmosphere. It seems from this video that something has gone amiss. The peeps aren’t appreciating the experience the way they are supposed to.
Bridget wrote:
Comrade Lenin got a kick out of getting his Class Enemies(TM) to finance their own destruction; sort of the ultimate Add-Insult-to-Injury sense of humor…
Evie wrote:
In the Old West, one nickname for rotgut frontier booze was “Brigham Young Whisky — one gulp and you’re seeing double wives.”
Bridget wrote:
What happens when someone or something outside Elevation (or outside the church as a whole) gives “that certain crowd” a Hipper, Cooler, More Appealing EXPERIENCE?
Elevation Watch wrote:
Two words: NICE. RACKET.
@ Joe:
According to my corporate atty., when corporate assets are “Plundered” from one corp. into another with no fair market value assigned to the assets and the appropriate monies transferred to the original corp. to cover any outstanding debt. The transfer then leaves new corp. potentially liable for those debts, and anyone who personally signed as a guarantor on the debt. This is termed “piercing the corporate veil”. ie. any balance after a possible sale of the property if it comes up short of the loan balance, those owed a debt could go after the new “Christ Church” corp. and its leaders.
Elevation Watch wrote:
Do you know this for a fact or is it speculation on your part? Just curious.
Buck wrote:
Buck! Thank you for writing into this post. In my opinion, the creditors should go after the assets. This is mismanagement of the worst kind. I am so, so sorry for the loss of your once vibrant church. I pray that this will be a lesson to others out there.
Bridget wrote:
As you will see in the post today-churches are not about the people. They are about the pastors and leaders. And they must be protected at all costs.
dee wrote:
FUEHRERPRINZIP.
Heil und Sieg…
@ Joe:
That depends on the contractual conditions of the lien, but likely not. That is why corporations are created. The liability is limited to the entity, in general, unless malfeasance can be shown (malfeasance is deliberately doing a bad thing; misfeasance is doing a bad thing through ineptitude).
@ Headless Unicorn Guy:And it could make you drunk enough to forget not to marry two or more of them.
@ Buck:
I agree with Buck, except that non-profit trustees who do not know or approve of the plunder are generally protected.
@ Buck:
That raises a question: Was it merely a name change or was it a change of corporate structure or a new corporate structure. Very critical for who/whether there is a stuckee for the bill.
expat wrote:
Eh, noo. That’d be “See you, Jimmy!” which does have a meaning. Nobody has ever said “och aye the noo Jimmy” even more than no-one has ever said “och aye the noo”.
@ dee:
I think this describes the entire ad. Forget just the creative guy.
@ An Attorney:
The church leadership had a members meeting to let them know of their plans to change the churches name and direction (all forward to acts 29 and multiple campuses). However they never advised that the corporate structure was changing. The meeting was the last part of May & “Christ Church of NW Indiana” was listed with the sec. of state 6/22/2011 as a new corp. entity. I believe the paperwork was already in the works as the meting was taking place. I’m sure it was to get away from any financial liability and accountability to come. There were (3) of the Countryside eldership men involved in the change, at least 2 are no longer with the new “Church”. Though they were part of the meeting when the pastor announced the “plundering” to come of the original Countryside Church.
Janey wrote:
Oh, Janey, this made me so sad when I read it. Maybe this happened a long time ago, but is there any possibility of reviving the weeknight theology series? I mean, if the leader didn’t want to stop facilitating it, and the participants were enjoying and benefiting from it, why not start it up again! Of course, you would need to find a new place to meet. đ But honestly, I’m becoming more and more convinced that true believers really don’t need the 501(c)3, in order to BE the church.
Jennifer wrote:
and
Brian wrote:
Very good points, Jennifer and Brian.
@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
Ha! Double wives!
Big Blue Fan in Asia wrote:
Bless you. This is a great idea. I will contact the pastor of my new church and ask him.
@ Janey:
Your story reminds me much of my old church. The midweek classes and a lot of helpful ministries slowly disappeared. Which was sad considering how many people went there. There had to be people who would have loved to show up and teach or learn.
This article shows me why colleges and universities don’t commit “academic incest” by hiring a lot of their own graduates to be professors.
I live in a college town and my brother had some friends who wanted to stay and teach here. Last I heard, they were seeking out their degrees from other universities just to have a chance.
I am not sure it is a direct correlation, but it seemed fitting enough to post.
Colleges are more likely to hire a former undergraduate who has gone elsewhere and gotten a graduate degree — the highest degree in their field — and then seek to return. Religiously affiliated universities with a desire to be respected as graduate institutions are those most likely to do this. Faculty from a diversity of graduate institutions is a necessary condition for respect in the academic and research world.
Evie wrote:
A complementarian polygamist, by nature, leads a double wife.
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
: )
@ Dee~
I totally believe your comment that Mark Driscoll claims to have the ‘gift of Real Estate Acquisition”, but I was wondering if you have a link to that? Just to give me more examples (read ammunition”0 in my quest to attempt to show some dear friends Mark’s true theology. They are members of his church and it is a real source of heartache for us ” who knew them when”.
Truly I am not at all questioning your integrity or anything! I think you guys are amazingly faithful in getting this info out…am only sorry you take such abuse in doing so.
molly145 wrote:
Could you show me where I said this? I am trying to remember the context.
@ dee: I do remember he said something about James MacDonald in that regard.