"but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea."
Matthew 18:6 (NASB)
Blue Ribbon – Prevent Child Abuse
Despite the silence from the 'gospel' crowd, news outlets far and wide continue to report on the amended lawsuit against Sovereign Grace Ministries, et al.
Christianity Today has alerted its readership with this headline: Child Abuse Lawsuit Against Sovereign Grace Ministries Adds Names and Charges (link).
It begins as follows:
"The pending child abuse lawsuit against Sovereign Grace Ministries (SGM) has been amended, adding five new plaintiffs, five defendants, and 28 charges.
The lawsuit, which seeks class-action status, now alleges that some defendants engaged in abuse directly, in addition to its previous charges that defendants covered up abuse within SGM communities."
Once again, Sovereign Grace Ministries has released a statement through Tommy Hill, SGM's Director of Administration, who became part of the leadership team last summer. This CPA definitely has his hands full! According to the press release, this church planting network "is an association of over 80 churches."
Covenant Life Church also issued a statement today which we are including below:
"Dear Church,
We’re writing to update you on a new development in the legal process that began unfolding last fall. The lawsuit that was filed in October has been amended. It now names our church and our school as defendants. In addition it alleges sexual abuse by an unnamed “pastor and teacher” and “children’s ministry worker” (though it does not make clear what institution these persons are connected with nor when the events allegedly occurred).
We’re currently working with legal counsel to investigate these allegations. But our counsel has confirmed with counsel for the Plaintiffs that these unnamed persons are not current employees of the school or pastors at the church.
It will take time for us to review and investigate these new allegations. We ask for your patience—it’s very likely that this is going to be a lengthy process. Please continue to pray.
We are sickened by the thought of such abuse—sexual abuse in any form is evil and unconscionable. We are grieved by these allegations. We also recognize that we don’t have all the facts. We would encourage everyone to withhold judgment until an appropriate legal process can be completed.
We want you to know our commitment is to do what is right before the Lord throughout this process. We want justice and truth to prevail—whether this indicts past actions or vindicates them. If wrong has been done, we want that to be revealed and for there to be appropriate accountability. We also know that it is possible for people to be wrongly accused, and so we pray that God will protect anyone from inaccurate or distorted or false accusations.
Please join us in praying for God’s will to be done and for our church to walk through this difficult process in a manner that demonstrates our hope and trust are in him. Let us pray that this testing will make us more dependent on God, more compassionate to the hurting, and more effective in sharing the love and tender care of Jesus Christ with others.
“God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.” (Psalm 46:1 ESV)
Sincerely,
The Pastors of Covenant Life"
Covenant Life Church – SGM's flagship church – recently withdrew from this 'family of churches'. We join with them in praying "for God's will to be done…"
As the CLC statement indicates, the church and Covenant Life School, which is housed at CLC, are now named in the amended lawsuit because of allegations brought forth by Paula Poe.
TRIGGER ALERT
(What follows is extremely disturbing!)
Here is what the Amended Complaint, filed January 11, 2013, states about Paula Poe:
"Paula Poe is a female who was repeatedly sexually assaulted during her childhood at the school at CLC and at various church events convened in Maryland. Due to the nature of this lawsuit, she wishes to use the pseudonym Paula Poe to keep her identity confidential. Paula Poe brings this action on her own behalf and on behalf of those similarly situated."
FACTS REGARDING PAULA POE
"37. Paula Poe attended the School and services at CLC beginning in kindergarten until her family moved away from Gaithersburg, Maryland. Paula Poe was repeatedly sexually assaulted by two men. The primary perpetrator was a pastor and teacher. The secondary perpetrator was a children's ministry worker.
38. On multiple occasions, the two perpetrators, acting in concert, had Poe strip and sexually molested her. These sexual molestations occurred on the School and Church premises, and at Church events, such as picnics.
39. On multiple other occasions, the primary perpetrator sexually molested Paula Poe at the School and Church events.
40. On one occasion, the secondary perpetrator sexually molested Paula Poe outdoors at a Church picnic.
41. Upon information and belief, Paula Poe was not the only victim of the pedophile ring operating within the School and the Church.
42. Upon information and belief, the pedophilia ring's victims included children who subsequently went on to prey upon other younger children."
There were two interesting comments left under a recent WJLA article that appear to explain how CLC operated while under SGM's 'covering'. Here they are:
Pal – Jan 15, 2013 – 06:29:52 PM
"Our family split the scene from Covenant Life awhile back due to our numerous concerns we had with their "Biblical counsel" on disciplining children, marriage, and life in general. This is a very authoritarian church with an unhealthy (and I think unbiblical), morbid introspection over one's sin condition. The myriad problems go deep into its DNA. Glad we're out."
@Pal – Jan 16, 2013 – 12:41:07 PM
"Yes, CLC WAS an authoritarian church and is no longer. Over the past few years, CLC has made changes and have become much less authoritarain and more accountable to the congregation. We at CLC did not like the authoritarian structure of SGM and the underhanded, unbiblical, unethical practices of SGM and SGM's turning a deaf ear to us at CLC in our pleadings to them to make similar positive changes. Hence, we CLC have left SGM. So, you and others please do not confuse CLC and SGM as they are no longer one in the same."
How many more victims of this hyper-authoritarian system are out there and afraid to break their silence?
TWW is committed to standing with those who have been hurt, and over the next few days we will continue to focus on the additional charges.
We dedicate this song to those of you who have been wounded in this 'family of churches'. Please know that the TWW community is praying fervently for you.
Lydia's Corner: Numbers 32:1-33:39 Luke 4:31-5:11 Psalm 64:1-10 Proverbs 11:22
I’m glad “Paula Poe” got out of there and her family moved away. But with all the stories about the victims being revictimized by the leaders of CLC, one can’t help but wonder if CLC threatened to expose the abuse or coerced the family into leaving in some way.
And may the victims know that even on the other side of the world there are those who pray for and support them. May they know God's peace holding them fast through this incredibly difficult time, and may men and women of goodwill rise up and defend them from the detractors who will try to dismiss their testimony and blame the victims all over again.
I know nothing of American legal proceedings, but that statement by CLC sounds like they are trying to make sure they have themselves covered.
How are they different? Less-authoritative? Honey, that’s been forced upon CLC. Nothing has really changed, its just made adjustments imo.
Where’s the revolution? Guess I missed the dramatic overthrow of CJ Mahaney’s leadership.
Out of the eater came something to eat, out of the strong came something WEAK.
Amen Lynne. And I guess this is what bugs me. We encourage people to leave an abusive environment, right? If it's an abusive person you get out of the relationship. If it's an abusive church you leave. But some people listen to the abusers promises and get suckered in to staying in the relationship. But has the abuser changed? In the same way, the same people are in leadership at CLC. The same ones! But they're just not going to be so authoritative now. They're going to listen more to the members. Doesn't that sound good? Oh, and in the meantime, the leaders still consider CJ their "brother" and are so grateful to him for all he's done. It's just orange instead of cherry kool-aid imo
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Paula,
You are so brave, beautiful, and strong for coming forward. I hope you feel the support of multitudes standing with you.
As for CLC . . . give us a break! Even Penn State handled their scandal in a more supportive attitude to the victims. All you’re doing is trying to protect your lofty image from being tarnished. Why don’t you even attempt to right the wrongs this woman suffered as a child while attending your church. “Is this what Jesus would do?”
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Evie
They are not one and the same as in meaning “offically linked.” As for the future, I, too, am concerned. A tie was broken but the “theology” behind some of the stuff is still firmly in plaace. Time will tell. Jim, as he closed SGM Refuge, said that he thinks SGM will never change. I am inclined to concur.
My husband and I attended one of those authoritarian churches in the 80s. While we weren't specifically abused per se, we were traumatized by the circumstances surrounding our leaving. One day we were members of a community that likened itself to family and the next we were nonexistent. It certainly pales in comparison to the trauma of the litigants in this case, but I will say it profoundly impacted our faith and trust from that point on. It was a very good lesson! The single thought I have with regard to this issue is that we do NOT subject ourselves to any person or authority unconditionally. Trust happens in the process of demonstrated relational exchange. It is not blind submission or trust. As adults we are fully responsible for the choices we make. Unfortunately, we get confused when we fail to define the appropriate boundaries of personal and corporate responsibility. Ultimately I would hope as the truth comes to light all would benefit from the exposure of sin and be restored in earnest through repentance and restoration as much as possible. For the victims I pray that they would recognize the full scope of the issue and know this is the works of human beings and not reflective of God. I pray that this extreme trauma be exposed fully and the Miracle of healing be the legacy of all who have and are suffering. May the burden of resolve fall squarely on the persons responsible and not on the victims.
Yvonne Taylor,
Welcome to TWW! I am so grateful for your heartfelt comment. I know what it’s like to be in a ‘church family’ one minute and then dropped like a hot potato the next.
I especially liked your last statement: “May the burden of resolve fall squarely on hte persons responsible and not on the victims.”
Sadly, victims are often re-victimized when they come forward with the truth. May they be strong throughout this entire process.
@ Yvonne Taylor:
Amen, Yvonne. What a beautiful post!
Yvonne,
Welcome. I was dismembered (aka banned) from one of their churches and my experiences do not compare to what these children have endured but the shunning is extremely painful more so than people might think because we were conditioned to be dependent upon the church in unhealthy ways.
There are a lot of ex-sgm people here and being here for you if you need to talk actually helps me to heal.
Yvonne,
I am an SGM Survivor and my story is related to one of the ones in the lawsuit. My own experience, though hurtful, was not traumatic. My story was posted here last week. My Survivor friend Noel and I have always said that one of the very first marks of a cult is how people who leave are treated.
One of the aspects I’ve found most frustrating as I’ve lived and followed this story is this: When the Survivor blogs first appeared SGM loyalists claimed the stories being told were inaccurate. Then the problems within SGM became much more difficult to deny or ignore (after Brent’s documents were made public.) Now what SGM insiders say is something like, “Yes, there are problems with SGM and with some SGM churches but not with MY church.” My answer to that is that anyone still inside an SGM church is supporting a corrupt system that hurts people. Or “Covenant Life (Fairfax) used to be like that but we’ve changed.” And my answer to that is then where is the evidence of repentance? Where is the compassion for the victims?
I get so frustrated about this that I comment very seldom on SGM Survivors; which is where more of these SGM/Fairfax/Covenant Life apologists hang out. I can’t comment without sounding angry and snarky.
Phoenix, I’m an ex-SGMer, too. I appreciate your comments so much. I’d encourage you to continue to post over at Survivors. Your voice is important. You never know who you might influence to re-think how they’re viewing things.
@ Phoenix:
Phoenix,
I guess I’ll be angry and snarky for you. It’s difficult not to be when my own abuse in an authoritarian church is still so fresh. Thank you for sharing your story and for your compassion to others who have suffered. I think of the famous quote attributed to pastor Martin Niemoller about the Nazi rise to power:
First they came for the socialists,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.
I think it’s important to stand together and speak up for those who have suffered abuse at the hands of the church. Bravo to you for speaking up.
Hi- I cannot access the SGMSurvivors website. Is it just me? Hoping they were not hacked or anything bad.
dee wrote:
Right, I agree Dee. The same structure is there. The same people. The same leadership. And it was those same leaders that led those same people into accepting the same structure as before. “Follow us! We see where we’re taking you!” said the blind guides, and the blind followed.
“Are we blind,” CLC leadership may ask?
“Are you allowing women to be members of the leadership?”
“Oh no! That would be folly!” says the CLC Pastors. “Leadership is strictly male!”
“How did that work out for you in the past?”
“Women would mislead us. Men are better leaders,” maintain the All Boys Club, and the CLC Pastors wives and all the people nodded in agreement. “Women would only cause trouble. We encourage them to stay home.”
“Right. Well, you stick to that that model then because its obviously what’s worked for you in the past!”
SGMsurvivors reader,
I just pulled up Survivors. Perhaps the page did not load because so many are reading? Just a guess…
Hi SGMsurvivors reader,
I was just now able to access the SGMSurvivors site.
Stage-fright: “The Nitemare At SGM’s Front Door?”
HowDee YaAll,
Aparently C.J. Mahaney has spent many a year in an attempt at ‘silencing his critics’ ;'(getting) ‘the body of Christ not to even entertain accusations against him’…
huh?
Some piece of work, right?
I guess he forgot about the victims of his abusive SGM somewhere along the way…
What?
They are his critics now?
hmmm…
(They are apparently not alone..)
It would seem they have taken their ‘bold’ accusations to legal representatives of judicial law, as apparently no one else would listen. Maybe someone will listen now?
One can only hope…
“Do not receive an accusation against an elder except on the basis of two or three witnesses.” (1 Timothy 5:19)
Again, sadly Mahaney DID NOT/HAS NOT comment(ed) on these adjoining passages of Scripture:
Verse 20 – “Those who continue in sin, rebuke in the presence of all, so that the rest also will be fearful /of sinning/.
Verse 21 – I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of /His/ chosen angels, to maintain these /principles/ without bias, doing nothing in a /spirit of/ partiality.
Verse 22 – Do not lay hands upon anyone /too/ hastily and ^[ thereby share ^(/responsibility for/ the sins of others; keep yourself free from sin.
– 1 Timothy 5:20-22
The need to look at all the above verses in context has never been more clear dontcha think?
Is the church up to the challenge?
hmmm…
How about it’s officials?
Again, we can only hope.
The witnesses are mounting; just how many does it take?
(sadface)
Sopy
Sopy said “Again, sadly Mahaney DID NOT/HAS NOT comment(ed) on these adjoining passages of Scripture…” Sadly, CJ Mahaney has not commented at all for a long, long, time. He hasn’t uttered one word about this lawsuit. Doesn’t it seem kind of strange that the President of this organization has said NOTHING? Doesn’t he think his loyal followers, at least, might like to hear from him? Instead, he speaks through his PR guy, Tommy Hill. (I’m picturing the Mouth of Sauron.) Talk about an elitist! Even the President of the United States himself speaks when there is a major issue facing the country. Maybe the other SGM leaders warned him not to open his mouth after he made a complete fool of himself at the 2011 Pastors Conference. It’s just very strange.
Good words, Sopy!
BeenThereDoneThat wrote:
Excellent point! PSU provided the model. The Board of Trustees swiftly fired the men who covered up the scandal. They showed no mercy to them. In so doing, they showed mercy to the victims. Those that enabled the abuse to continue and who were responsible for the shame and disgrace which fell upon the school as a consequence were shown the door! Now that’s courage! That’s called acting with righteous conviction. That’s an example of “Masculinity” if you ask me John Piper, Randy Stinson, Ligon Duncan, Al Mohler, Mark Dever et al.
In comparison what did the SGM board do? It was outrageous!!!
Evie wrote:
And in response, a large (but certainly not the majority) of students rioted, while “concerned” alumni tsk, tsk, tsk’d and worried about the coming football season and the “suffering” of the current players who would maybe even have to transfer. 🙁
But – the PSU Board’s action was the best thing that came out of the early days of that sordid affair, I agree.
This is heartbreaking. I pray every, single victim comes forward and that the justice due will help them heal.
Phoenix
The people to whom you refer, the SGM apologists, are dealing with cognitive dissonance. It is very hard to accept that you were wrong about your entire church life. It is hard to admit that you made a mistake in your discernment. Instead of dealing with it, some say “It wasn’t me or the friends that I hang out with.I was with the good guys.” These folks are not strong enough to admit that they were suckered into believing a lie.
However, we all get suckered at one point or another in life. There is no shame in that. We live in a fallen world. I freely admit that I did not perceive that there were weird things going on in a former church. And I am an avid reader of church culture. It took me years to open my eyes. Finally, I gave myself permission to slap myself upside of my head and say “Dee, you were wrong. You screwed up. You missed the clues.”
Then God takes that experience and redeems it. The people to whom you refer have not yet been able to do that. Thankfully you have. You are a role model to all of them. They just don’t know it yet.
Debra
Know this. It is very difficult to get dismembered from TWW! Plus, quite a few who visit here were dismembered-either intentionally or in spirit. Heck, I wasn’t allowed to join a church because of sticking up for some boys abused by pedophiles. So, we are still the Body in spite of the actions of some bad actors.
Yvonne
I find it interesting when elders/pastors say that we must “trust” them. My usual answer is why. They mumble about the Bible. Then I let them know that I believe the Bible and that means I do not trust men easily. The unofficial motto of the CIA is “In God we trust. All others we monitor.”
I am sorry fo the pain that you experienced.
Dee and others,
Thanks for the encouraging responses. Dee, you helped especially. I’ve often thought that as an older divorced single mom working full time in the secular world I never had a chance of really fitting in and feeling completely part of things. That spared me a lot of temptation, I think. I wasn’t important enough to receive the scrutiny that others did. (Not worth shunning, I call it.)That turned out to be a very good thing. And I need to keep in mind that I had the “advantage” of being part of Noel’s messy situation and the stories that surrounded it. Also, I left in 2002. Noel and I joke that we left before it was cool.
But when I was most immersed I can imagine my reaction if people tried to tell me what I know now.
It does help to be reminded that it is a process for each of us and that God is in charge. Maybe this will help me get my angst over the “apologists” so that I can post on Survivors without sounding mean!
My prayers go out to all the victims of these horrid crimes . I hope that justice prevails and these ” gospel leaders ” get served . Maybe then repentance will come although , I doubt it. Makes me sad that the name of our Lord is being used to justify some of their actions . I really like what you said Dee! Trust The Lord 100% and monitor others before placing any trust in them. This is so ver true.
“I find it interesting when elders/pastors say that we must “trust” them. My usual answer is why. They mumble about the Bible. Then I let them know that I believe the Bible and that means I do not trust men easily. The unofficial motto of the CIA is “In God we trust. All others we monitor.”
This is so good.
Deb and Dee,
I am glad for this place, am in a good place spiritually, and just wanted Yvonne to know she was not alone and not crazy.
Phoenix
Thank you for sharing yourself with ALL of us. You have made me laugh this afternoon.
“Not worth shunning, I call it.”
“I left in 2002. Noel and I joke that we left before it was cool.”
I received an email from a pastor that made me smile. He said he had read our blog a couple of years back and hated it. He thought we were mean and ill informed. Then, junk happened to him and he remembered the blog. He is now a quiet, but supportive reader. Sometimes, junk has to happen to us so that we understand.
If I had not gone through my experience with cold fish pastors, I wouldn’t have dreamed that this stuff is going on. The ridiuclous stuff we went through has been redeemed by God. Better yet, He has allowed me to see good in this life. A young man who was subjected to unwanted attention of a pedophile is doing well. He was supported by his awesome parents and a small group of supporters (Dee and Deb were part of this) who believed him over the protestations of pastors and blind elders.
Standing up for victims, being willing to take it on the chin for them, is a blessed assignment which we call the “Prime Directive.”
You are important, burdened by a calling. You are makinf a stand against darkness and we are here for you.
Debra
You get it! Your love and compassion for Yvonne is a living example to the “pastors and leaders” in SGM.
dee wrote:
Actually, I’ve got my doubts about SGM’s long-term survival, especially if they lose the lawsuit. Whether C.J. Mahaney ever changes remains to be seen, although I pray that he will.
What is wrong with being angry and snarky?
Where injustice and abuse occur, anger is the normal, healthy resposne. I suppose it can be moderated, but it is not inappropriate.
@ Phoenix:
Sopy
Ditto! Gald to hear from you.
Yesterday I posted the Washington post article and yesterday’s TWW post on my Facebook wall.
I didn’t realize that one of my friends goes to the church mentioned, the one recently added to the lawsuit, the SGM in Fairfax, VA. I know she has only been going there 3 to 4 years and she and I went to church together where I was treated horribly for bringing up an offense and the elders covered it up. I realized they were also covering up many other things and one thing brought out would have led to other cover ups brought to light. This friend was not going there when all of this happened. When trying to exit the church organization is when it got worse, it was horrible and the friends that I thought were friends all wrote emails of disassociating themselves from me and releasing me to Satan so I would see my wrong of not submitting to authority and come back to God and them. It is still fresh as you can see and it has been a year ago just this week. So thankful I am out, it was a Calvinism/Reformed church.
I share this because that was where I met this friend who now goes to the SGM in Fairfax. She commented yesterday “Be careful about things the Washington Post prints! They just may be one sided. Just saying. Also, we go to this church and know how one sided this article really is. Judgement is mine says The Lord.”
It saddens me because what are they saying to their members to have this kind of response? The part that makes it worse is how would she truly know, she has only been there maybe 4 years and to automatically assume whatever their leaders tell them is the truth just angers me!
I then commented back telling her I have been following this case for awhile and what Wash. Post wrote was NOT contrary to what is going on. Thankfully one of my good friends that introduced me to TWW also commented after and said how she had been involved for 30 years until this past year and knows most of the leaders and some of the victims families. The best part of my friends comment was this. “But I know that God is just and He will make right what has been wrong. He will bring the truth to light. The truth might be ugly and painful to see, but we mustn’t be afraid to face it. The truth will set us all free.”
I am just ready for truth to come out in many abuse situations and for our brothers and sisters to be able to think for themselves instead of just taken a so called leaders word for it because he is a leader.
@ Free:
Free – I can really relate that sometimes the abuse is worse after leaving. It is always difficult looking back at people who are left behind. We couldn’t communicate because of shunning, but as people have left, there is a waiting out process before some made an effort to actually reconnect. It really is a detoxing process. If you left 1 year before someone else, you were most likely talked about negatively, so this person who recently left has to redo all of the brainwashing they were taught about you before you will be accepted. And sometimes even after all of that, you will be held at arm’s length and may not ever fully connect as you did before.
People – this is just like what cult survivors deal with. You can call it a “cult” or “cult-like”, but the process is the same.
Rafiki wrote:
PSU has suffered the consequences, that’s for sure. Sandusky is in prison where he belongs. The PSU football program has suffered and heavy fines and sanctions have been imposed. That has been difficult for the once widely respected university. But the public knows PSU faced the music and have “taken it like a man”(except for the recent whining of the PA Govenor who prematurely played the sympathy card). People have recognized they responded with integrity. There’s been no lengthy repercussions that has added insult to the injury of the victims by Penn State’s attempt to obfuscate and protect those on staff who were responsible. But that’s what happened within SGM and the world recognizes how they have accommodated sin and those who perpetrated it. All those men within SGM who were involved should have been promptly fired by the SGM board including CJ Mahaney. That is what the AoR recommendation should have been. And the men on staff who have been implicated should have resigned. Where is their integrity? Instead they are holding on to their jobs. How many more people are they going to provide horrible “pastoral” advice and counsel to?
Free,
Thank you for sharing this about your friend and her reaction to the Washington Post article. I believe that in due time she will discover the truth. It’s difficult when you want to “believe the best” about your church.
Evie,
The more this plays out the worse AoR looks. They should be ashamed of themselves!
Yes what does this say about SGM when even Penn State owned up to the charges and took the consequences without trying to blame or slander the victims?
Did Paterno attempt to force the children/victims into forgiving Sandusky, and force them into the lockerroom showers with their predator again? Like the SGM leadership has done to at least one of their victims?
If I were one of these “leaders” I would be flat on my face before God, shaking with fear.
Phoenix wrote:
I’ve been able to really relate to you Phoenix and if you are anything like me you get frustrated with the apologists because of the way they contribute to the whole system. I know there are people who are wrestling with their SGM experience and my heart goes to them and I support them. But my heart does not go out to those who stick their heads in the sand, who stand by leaders who haven’t earned their loyalty, who think their commitment to the reformation of SGM is the spiritual high ground, and who balk at the suggestion that leaving is the right response.
Deb wrote:
What have they reconciled? If we think of CJ as the abusive husband and SGM as the wife, it seems to me AoR said it’s ok for the abusive husband is fit to re-enter the home, that the wife should continue to submit, and that there’s nothing wrong with him despite what the evidence revealed! He’s perfectly fit as a husband! The wife, clearly, should feel shamed for having raised an issue and when she wasn’t pleased with the report, what did the abusive husband do? He packed his bag and left his wife (despite what the bible says about how a husband should not depart) and headed out of state! Meanwhile AoR says SQUAT! Amazing.
Evie –
Didn’t AoR, instead of discerning what was going on, tell SGM to come up with a way to “judge” CJ? They didn’t want the job so they helped devise a panel of men from within SGM (who all owed their livlihood to SGM churches and were chosen by the leaders of SGM) to weigh the information and determine an outcome. It was a farce. AoR didn’t judge anything. They listened to people and then wrote a report telling SGM what they heard from all parties. AoR was completely duped. AoR was also paid by SGM. They judged against the people who were mad, loud, and indignant about what had happened to them. I wonder how AoR would have responded if the people with the complaints were the ones who paid the bill?
Evie –
All that to say it was more like CJ got his BFFs, who think and act like him, together to decide if he was abusive or not. AoR were simply cowards.
@ Evie:
Evie, you are definitely right on in comparing the PSU response to the SGM response to date, I really appreciate your pointing that out.
As I noted earlier this week, I am VERY interested in the AoR angle of this story.
Mostly because the “Ambassadors” are also followed and applauded as Christian leaders (I mentioned that one of them is booked to speak later this month at the church I attend when in the US). Their role is looking more and more ridiculous since the amended lawsuit was released.
Is their “report” available online, and if yes does anyone have a link?
Also – earlier today I felt really really strongly that for those who are led to pray over this entire situation, do remember to lift up the victim’s legal team in your prayers. That they would have the resources, stamina, and wisdom to serve as a powerful means of exposing the truth.
How big are some of these churches? Here in New England, my former church was maybe 50 people, including kids. Even the Catholic Churches are sparsely attended. Just asking, it’s incomprehensible to me that shunning goes on, never mind the rest of the shenanigans. It isn’t possible to do shunning in small churches. Tell you what, I’d like to shun some people out of my life, but I can’t!
In the US evangelical universe, much of the craziness takes place in churches that are over 500 in regular attendance. The church I left after a decade or more typically had over 2000 people in the pews each Sunday plus staff and people, especially little kids, who just when to a Sunday school class.
Which in turn leads many times that your social circles from the people at your church. Which means a “shunning” can have a dramatic effect. Especially on the children in a family.
One reason many people NOT from New England call the churches there dead is due to their small size. Not that small is a bad thing as I’ve come to realize over the years.
In a case like this, is it at all possible that AOR could be held liable?
@ VelvetVoice:
I imagine there will be a lot of overlap in people’s churches regarding shunning. Mine was not a SGM church. There were over 1,000 people including kids. It had less to do with size, and more to do with how involved you were required to be in the church. We were expected to attend 3 to 4 services a week. Our children were homeschooled using mostly the church’s own curriculum, and the children did not play or associate with children outside the church. Participation and attendance at other church programs and functions was mandatory for membership. In other words, our entire lives revolved around the church and it’s concerns. For some, even their livelihoods and residences were tied up in church businesses and properties. So shunning had a very broad impact in every area of your families life. Church “discipline” could require you losing your job, having to move, losing contact with your “friends”, and your children no longer allowed contact with the other children. It is meant to be punishing, and was sometimes used to threaten people into compliance with the ministers’ wishes. And discipline could be meted out for simply disagreeing with a minister. And the longer your life has been tied up in a church like this the more painful it is to separate. It reminds me of the cognitive dissonance that Dee spoke of earlier. It’s hard to wrap your head around the fact that you have given so much of yourself to something so damaging.
@ BeenThereDoneThat:
I think you’re right in your assessment about shunning.
The shunning is so painful because the individual is being ignored by family, friends and others he respected and shared so many things together… And also because that person’s whole life and identity was built around the group and very strongly tied up to the group’s identity and culture. If then you’re ignored by the group, left aside as an untouchable… What’s left for you?
In my case the reactions to my decision of leaving the denomination where I grew up weren’t too bad, but I know that others didn’t have it that easy. And I’m pretty sure that, still, some people thought about me as being deceived by the Devil or something like that.
Also, I don’t think the shunning can be necessarily linked to the size of the church or congregation… I’ve seen it happen in both large and small groups. I think it’s more related to the way the group was born and how it grew up, to its culture, priorities and values. The expression of those issues, the “fruits” of those fundamental issues, may then be seen, among other things, in the way they think about themselves and those outside the group, in the relationship between the “normal” members and the leadership, and in the way they react to criticism.
@ Julie Anne:
Thanks Julie Anne, I agree. Trying to leave was more horrifying than while I was there trying to work through it. But, I knew when I walked out those doors a year ago this week. I truly felt I had broken “Free” from the bondage of control of man, like a bird having my wings untied flying free!! I am sure many of you can relate. Back in 1995 when I was born again, a lady in the church I was attending at that time said she saw something in me, Joy a sense of Freeing she would see on my face and gave me the nickname of “Free” hence the name I use and represents being Free from the abuse of authoritative systems.
Julie Anne, this friend had left before me and went on the SGM church in Fairfax and I didn’t know it. I was just trying to give a background of how I knew her and why she would probably feel comfortable there because the church we attended together was in NC and was a Reformed/Calvin church. I wanted to share with you all that her response was heart breaking because you wonder what their leaders are telling their members for her to automatically think the article is one-sided. It made me hurt for the victims and all of us who know what its like to go against these controlling institutions and try and hold them accountable. We can relate in some ways to these victims because a lot of us have been abused in many different ways so we want justice for these victims and we may never see justice for our situations but we can see it for our fellow brothers and sisters in this case.
Julie Anne, I am the one who recently moved near Seattle. Not sure if you still have my email address but we should try and get together for some good fellowship. Maybe we can go and visit Mars Hill church one Sunday! Just Kidding! Unless we went as undercover agents. Ha ha ha
At Deb,
I agree, you want to believe the best about your church but I thought I would let you see at least one person’s response to the lawsuit. I just don’t like when someone is so certain about something and do go and defend it without have been there or to really know the people. 3 to 4 years is really not long enough to really know people in a church atmosphere. I would never be the one to tell her in time, “I told you so” These things are hard to take and hard to hear but until you really have been there in a abusive situation with these type of church organization or seen abuse yourself, people have a tendency to always believe the church members they sit next to are just great people. That is not always the case. Keeping these things in prayer and in my thoughts!!
@ BeenThere:
So I wasn’t the only with “first they came for the socialists” rattling around in my head today? : )
“In the US evangelical universe, much of the craziness takes place in churches that are over 500 in regular attendance.”
I don’t know if that’s always true. I’ve heard lots of horror stories from small patriarchal churches where the patriarchal “lifestyle” was advocated (19th-century homemaking skills, farming, no vaccination, etc.). Aside from the usual psychological/emotional damage from purity culture, etc., one of them included an outbreak of whooping cough that almost killed several children in the congregation because none of them had been vaccinated.
I tend to think small churches and big churches have different kinds of craziness, not that one produces crazy and the other doesn’t. I tried the small church thing for a few years (5 families) and there was all sorts of subtle weirdness.
“One reason many people NOT from New England call the churches there dead is due to their small size.”
Yes, this is a rather annoying habit of Southerners who move here. Small churches + Yankee taciturnity = lost. Maybe Matthew 18:20 doesn’t apply north of the Mason-Dixon line? ; )
That last comment was directed @ Lynn. Sorry.
@ Velvet:
“Even the Catholic Churches are sparsely attended.”
I don’t know…the ones I sing at are always packed (I live in eastern CT).
Trina
They had a moral obligation to report any unreported abuse cases. But morals do not appear to be high on the list these days for anyone associated with this stuff.
Hester wrote:
Agreed. I’m just more and more jaded about big churches. At least in small ones it is usually easier to spot the craziness as typically everyone knows everyone. In larger churches many (most?) congregants don’t “know” the pastoral staff except at the PR level. Which makes it harder to see the craziness until you’ve been there a while.
@ dee:
Thankfully, I don’t think SGM’s PR move to have AoR come in and smooth things over worked. They spent a bundle of money in that silly report, too. In hindsight, it seems like the whole CJ/Brent dispute was a distraction from what really needed to be taken care of.
K wrote:
Exactly K. What CJ Mahaney and others are dealing with isn’t the result of isolated, off-the-cuff, weak-moment, split second mistakes. We’re talking about patterns of behavior. These men were familiar with what is sacred and told people to entrust their lives to them. Maybe we’re not seeing them on their faces because the time for repentance has passed. Although SGM continually requests that people pray for them, I think this is a diversion. I believe an appropriate response is to recognize the outworking of God’s will and to rejoice in His judgments, and to not spend time praying for people who were given plenty of opportunites to repent. Like Esau, they were familiar with holy things and disregarded them. They shouldn’t be requesting our prayers. They should be requesting prayers for all their victims, the only people we should feel obligated to pray for here.
@ Free:
Free, I would love to get together with you when I go to Seattle area next. And I would also love to go check out Mars Hill, camera ready. Why don’t you send me another e-mail to make sure I have it. (BGBCSurvivors @ Gmail dot come) I think it’s interesting that your name is Free. I’m pretty sure that the name I used here before my name became very public was “Free”. Because that’s how I felt, too 🙂
Anyway, I’d love to hear your whole story and compare notes because there’d probably be a lot of similarities – there always is when you have a leader with creepy control tactics.
Trina wrote:
I’m thinking Trina that all of AoR’s documents are full of disclaimers, and that it is impossible for them to be held legally liable for any of the advice or counsel they gave to Mahaney & Co.
AoR were hirelings.
I don’t know how they could interview all those people who have been hurt by the SGM machine and possibly have a clear conscience.
Thanks so much for posting this song and video! I have never heard it before. What a blessing to remember that suffering will be transformed in Him.
This is my first time posting, thanks so much for this site!! Praying for peace, comfort, courage and guidance for all the victims. I’m a former SGMer. God bless!
RB wrote:
Hi RB and wow. When I read your comment I thought, “There’s an iceberg under there, and this is just the tip.” I believe you have a lot to say. Hope you can safely unpack some of it here. You’re right about suffering and transformation, that’s for sure!
RB,
I hadn’t heard that song either until Dee shared it with me. We have featured it several times in our EChurch posts. May I encourage you to check those out?
We are praying with you for all the victims. May God restore what the locusts have eaten.
Thanks, Evie and RB. I’ve posted before under a different moniker at Spiritual Tyranny and Survivors, and a little at Refuge, until they closed. The past and possibly still present trauma inflicted on the lawsuit plaintiffs is close to my heart right now, and we have a daughter, son in law and grandson we’re concerned about, where similar problems seem to be involved. Would appreciate prayers for healing, deliverance and increased trust in Him for all.
That said, I have some deep issues with Reformed theology. We have been in different brands of it over the years, and although some important truths of the gospel have been brought out there, my perspective now is that these truths were from scripture, not from the theologies developed off of a Plato/Augustine system of thought. I believe scripture from OT and NT has been misinterpreted and misapplied for over 1500 years, and has resulted in murder, anti-Semitism, hyper-authoritarianism, and allowed the evil fruit reflected in the lawsuit. What a perfect set up for total control of people’s minds and lives.
I’m thankful that we got out of SGM when we did. No more pyramid style shepherding for me, except from the Good Shepherd. We’re now in a much healthier, more balanced church and getting good teaching and fellowship, but never again will I look to pastors, teachers, authors, denominations or churches for what only God Himself provides. Thanks for welcoming me.
@ Julie Anne:
Will do Julie Anne. Look forward to sharing our stories and some good fellowship. Yes, Free we are!
RB
Thank you for your comments. I am sorry for the pain in your family and will pray for your daughter and her family.Good for you-getting out of the system. I used to think that I coudl stay and try to fix things. Sometimes theo nly thing that works is walking away, carrying your money with you. Such actions have caused some churches to sit up and take notice-especiallt when the contributions are down and they had to fire people.
Lynn wrote:
Lynn (and replies, come to that) – interesting point. I think there are some differences between the US and UK evangelical scenes, so I don’t know enough to comment on what you said about things Over There. But certainly you can get some weird small churches over here. Some of our small congregations are – I must emphasise this – decent and honourable bands of believers, which are only small because they don’t really know how to grow. I think we’re agreed that this by itself doesn’t make them failures, and I’m not saying I’d do any better either!
But some are small precisely because they’re groups of weirdos that no sane person hangs around for long. They couldn’t “love-bomb” people into joining, even if they tried to, because the only thing they actually know how to do is give people the creeps..! Similarly, others stay small because they’re strangled by small politics and newcomers simply aren’t welcome. Out-and-out abuse is relatively rare in these settings simply because they aren’t really trying to do very much. I do know clearly of one small rural church that was infected by a paedophile; he groomed the church first, then started going after the children. The parents involved spotted him a mile off and left before he could do any harm, fortunately. But again, this happened less because of a systematically abusive church culture than because of the banal and stubborn incompetence of the leadership.
Actual spiritual abuse, in the classic sense, probably is more likely to happen in a big church over here because those churches tend to be led by entrepreneurial leaders who are more prone to setting up the pyramid-selling church model. I say “more likely” with the usual caveat that this is a statistical outcome that cannot fairly be applied to individual cases. One cannot assume that a church is abusive just because it is large, in other words. But child sex abuse unfortunately can happen wherever paedophiles can bluff their way to respectability.
RB wrote:
Its fascinating to think we are in living in a time period in which the misapplications and misinterpretations of God’s word over the centuries are being rectified! Its ugly work and so many people are currently disenfranchised and detached from church life (and who can blame them?), but what glory lies ahead! This may seem like a stretch too, but for those of us who have anguished over our SGM experience, knowing we had hoped for something lasting to have come from our investment, I have a prophetic sense that there is hope, its on the way, and to wait on the LORD. I think we’re in something very similar to an Anna or Simeon (is that his name?) timeframe. They witnessed the takeover of Temple worship by the Pharisees, the Scribes and the Saduccees and forced Gods people into a legalistic form of worship that was far removed from the religion of Moses and Abraham. But they knew the Promises of God and so in faith they tarried, watching and praying for the salvation of the LORD. Anna knew when she saw the baby Jesus that her eyes had seen the salvation of the Lord! She new her waiting and praying and trusting had not been in vain! But what happened because of Jesus was unlike anyone could have predicted. Tumult ensued, and the religious world was turned upside down. And so it is now. The wrongs must be made right. The religious world is being turned upside down. But in the midst of it all God is at work and “many will see it and fear, and will trust in the LORD.” His Kingdom come, His will be done on earth, as it is in Heaven.
@ Evie:
It does bother me to see the push and reverence for the doctrines that take the church back 1500 years. I have been reading and studying for the past 18 months and do not understand why so many people want to only return to the age of the Reformation leaders. Maybe it’s easier to regurgitate the written teachings from dead scholars rather than study the scriptures from original language? The problem is that they resurrect all the mistakes and errors that led to tyranny in the church even after the reformation. They make the assumption that the reformers’ doctrines were sound (i.e. perfect and safe to move forward from). It is hard to rethink something you may have believed your entire life . . . and probably frightening for many.
Bridget
Right! When its the same pattern that leads to tyranny as you said. Its based in legalism, not the Spirit. God says to expect new things! “Now it shall spring forth. Shall you not know it? I will even make a road in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert….” 🙂
Evie and Bridget, thanks for your comments, totally agree, too. I think the “age of apostasy” has probably been around much, much longer than many modern conservative evangelicals would think. I heard someone say a year or so ago, that as things get darker spiritually, which was prophesied before the Lord’s return, the perspectives found in the Messianic movement(as in Jews who believe in Yeshua of Bethlehem and Nazareth as Messiah, and believing Gentiles) will become the beacons they were in the beginning of the Church. As a Messianic myself, it is so difficult to witness a global resurgence in anti-Semitism, especially in some churches, which have forgotten Romans 11, forgotten that as believers, we are all grafted in, grafted into God again, and grafted physically and spiritually into Israel. He doesn’t change, He doesn’t break His promises, so I trust the literal translation of scripture over the figurative interpretations which started taking hold ~200 A.D.+.
I know that some folks sorting through the SGM problems which are coming to light, insist that they have no base in theology or interpretation, but I can’t share their opinion. Yes, all humans sin, believers and non believers, but believers are being transformed into the image of Christ. To me, the theology is directly connected to the problems. Yes, it existed in the hyper-authority in PDI, but formally adopting a reformed stance and morphing into SGM was a convenient way to tighten the reigns.
Thanks for letting me post Dee and Deb! Sorry about the typos re: names in replies this a.m.(didn’t get enough sleep last night). For that matter, I’ve noticed other posters mentioning less sleep since the lawsuit with SGM.
@ RB:
RB – since you mentioned your history, I was wondering if you knew anything about the following translation? The comment was written to me on another blog:
RB wrote:
I was in SGM during the time things shifted. The new emphasis on reformed theology was introduced without an introduction. Slowly things changed and belong long everything was about the Cross, the Cross, the Cross.
I think for people who were primarily raised on a SGM-fed, the inculcation of this new doctrine was received without question. And they promoted everything ad nauseum as being exactly “gospel-centered.” But I knew there was more to the gospel than that. Where did the work of the Holy Spirit go? What about the Kingdom of God?
Then I read something (don’t remember what book it was I was reading!) that grabbed me and wouldn’t let go. The author said that there was a danger in focusing on only one aspect of Jesus’ ministry, that it leaves us with an imbalanced theological base. And I agreed with that. I think he used the example of a stool; all the legs need to be in place for us to stand on. And then he went on to say that if he were to focus on any one aspect of the ministry of Jesus Christ, he wouldn’t focus on the Cross, nor the Resurrection, but on the Ascension. He explained that the Ascension was the crowning achievement of Jesus’ ministry and I was intrigued….there was something about that statement that addressed the struggle, the frustration I felt inside over the continuous emphasis at CLC on the Cross. The Cross was what everyone was told to focus on. CJ kept saying he would never move away from the Cross. I mean, things were in overdrive about the Cross, and all the songs turned into songs about the Crucifixion. Things didn’t feel Reformed – they felt Catholic. All that was missing was a big crucifix with Jesus hanging on it. Seemed appropriate.
Anyway, the author said the Ascension was the crowning achievement of Jesus’ ministry because everything led to that moment. He said if we stopped short of the Ascension then we are left without the Holy Spirit, the Church and the Kingdom of God. After Jesus went to “My Father and to your Father, My God and to your God” was His mission complete! Then the Holy Spirit was sent, Pentecost occurred (the birth of the Church) and the Kingdom of God was something that dwelled within! And when I read that, I totally agreed!
So, I agree with you. Theology is imporant. Yes, SGM developed into a “culture.” But what was wrong with the whole structure? There’s more to it than this, but realizing that the Ascension was the crowning achievement became the ticket to my escape from the world of SGM.
Bridget, not sure which you’re referring to. I have an interlinear, and am continuing in learning Hebrew, also have a paraphrase, the Complete Jewish Bible, translated by David Stern. It is helpful, but I rely most on the NASB, have a Thompson Chain reference in that, because I like to avoid commentaries on doctrinal issues. Also read KJV, used to read my ESV, until I saw how much reformed doctrine was being pushed.
I have heard of a new Messianic, supposedly literal translation coming out soon, but don’t know the name. Is that the one you mean? I could try to find out if you’d like.
Evie, I agree! And to know that we are being transformed into His image! He’s coming back to rule His earth in glory and justice forever. To me, reformed dwells on satan more than on the gospel, because of the focus on indwelling sin. Sure, we still sin as believers, but the point is “Grace, Grace to it!” Zech.
@ Evie:
“The Cross was what everyone was told to focus on. CJ kept saying he would never move away from the Cross. I mean, things were in overdrive about the Cross, and all the songs turned into songs about the Crucifixion.”
Heck, I saw one Neo-Calvinist(ish) blogger put up a “counterbalance” post after talking about the Resurrection, because she thought her readers might be concerned that she didn’t mention sin enough in the Resurrection post. Too much triumph and victory stuff, I guess.
Hester wrote:
lol yeah its crazy Hester. And wrong.
Bridget, found 2 sites, 2 different Messianic Bibles, but one isn’t finished yet. Can’t tell if they are paraphrases or translations, but here’s the info;
Tree of Life Messianic Family Bible, Destiny Image Pub., this is already out
http://www.messianicbible.com the Messianic Bible Project, to be done soon?
Hope that helps.
RB –
Thanks for looking for those and posting a link!! I look forward to checking into these.
Evie wrote:
CheKa changed its name to OGPU.
OGPU changed its name to NKVD.
NKVD changed its name to KGB.
With much fanfare from Pravda.
Long Live Big Brother.
Evie wrote:
No, that’s way beyond anything I ever experienced as a Catholic. What is this, All Lent, All Good Friday, and NO Easter? Not even One Day of Easter, never mind the seven full weeks of Easter season celebrating Christ’s triumph over death and sin?
HUG, I have a confession. I have a deep distrust of Catholicism. It seems to get into someone’s DNA, almost like gender is in someone’s DNA. So there. Level playing field?