The Real Doug Wilson Encouraged & Presided Over the Marriage of Serial Pedophile

"You can lead someone with poor reading comprehension skills to context, but you can't make them think. " (Tweet-7/14-presumably aimed at some of our readers who dared to disagree with him.)  Jared C Wilson


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A confession about my link to the infamous Jared Wilson quote.

Last week, old Dee was in a bit of a hurry and wanted to make a point that The Gospel Coalition (TGC) seems to be pushing Doug Wilson.  In fact there had been a number of posts that featured him or quoted him in the prior  weeks. To make sure my readers knew I wasn’t blowing smoke, I searched TGC blogs, using their search engine, and linked to the most recent one on the rather extensive list. This is soooo embarrassing. I did not read the post.

However, after publication, a reader made a comment about the disturbing nature of Wilson’s comment and so I read it. I spit my ever-present Diet Coke all over my keyboard! Here is what I want to say. Obviously, these guys believe in the sovereignty of God. This was NOT preplanned on my part but I am convinced that our Father wanted this to be disclosed.

And discussed it has been. Wade Burleson, unbeknownst to us, wrote a post deploring the ill-advised language of Doug Wilson link. Rachel Held Evans commented over at the Jared’s post on her own dismay on the language used and has now written a post at her blog. Link. There is even a blog at Patheos demanding that Jared Wilson's be taken down. Link.

TWW inadvertently started a firestorm. Jared seems to blame TWW but I think he should blame the One who plans it all. I am surprised by the condescending nature of both Jared’s and Doug’s comments to those who chose to leave their thoughts at the blog. After all it is billed as a blog, not a sermon.  Missional is NOT well demonstrated by these supposedly MISSIONAL Calvinistas. However, they have well-demonstrated the reason TWW came up with the term “Calvinista.” Deb will discuss their not so surprising responses tomorrow.

 Doug Wilson encourages the Steve Sitler, Katie Travis Marriage

Today, unfortunately, I have a story that might give those caught up in this discussion some further “perspective” on Doug Wilson and his church’s views on sex and marriage. This will not be pretty so pull on your galoshes.

Who Is Doug Wilson?

Doug Wilson appears to have a penchant for role playing.” He calls his church a “kirk” which is correct but it is usually seen in Scotland, not in Moscow, Idaho. In fact, he seems to love all things Scottish and also seem to enjoy using the word “confederation.” Link

“Wilson earned a B.A. in classical studies and a B.A. and an M.A. in philosophy from the University of Idaho. In addition to his role as pastor of Christ Church, he is a founder and Senior Fellow in Theology at New Saint Andrews College, founder and editor of Credenda/Agenda magazine, and founder of Greyfriars Hall, a three-year ministerial training program. He also serves on the governing boards of New Saint Andrews, Logos School (a Christian private school), and the Association of Classical and Christian Schools. Wilson was instrumental in forming the Confederation of Reformed Evangelical Churches.”

So what’s the deal with the "kirk" member pedophile, Steve Sitler?

Please understand that this pedophile was not a family member. He confessed to multiple moelstations of little children But, this is not going to be another article on pedophilia, per se. It is about a breath-taking misunderstanding of marriage as you will see.

“Sitler attended New St. Andrews College for eighteen months, during which time he boarded with a Christ Church family. New St. Andrews students are encouraged to board in local Christian homes.” Link

Sitler molested multiple young children and found a support in Doug Wilson

From the Southern Poverty Law Center link we learn some of the story from an article titled Idaho Pastor a Hard-Liner, With an Exception or Two.

“This summer, the Moscow-Pullman Daily News published a story on "rumors" that Wilson, who controls an extreme-right religious empire in Moscow, and his New Saint Andrews College had tried to "cover up" serial sexual molestations by a college student — molestations of very young boys and girls carried out over several years. Although the newspaper quoted none of them, many people were angry that Wilson had failed to notify families in his Christ Church for eight months after Steven Sitler confessed to him in March 2005. One church family with young children had boarded Sitler, and others welcomed him as a visitor in their homes (Sitler molested one 2-year-old girl in a similar visiting situation in Colville, Wash.). Critics complained that Wilson's lack of action had eliminated the possibility of identifying other victims in the community.

Wilson and college officials told the newspaper that they had immediately kicked Sitler out of school and notified police of his crimes, but decided not to inform members of the public because of concerns for victims' privacy.

Five months after Sitler's confession, another man who had been boarded by a Christ Church family while he studied to become a minister there was arrested and ultimately pleaded guilty to lewd conduct with an underage girl. When details of the matter came up on a local blog run by a disgruntled Wilson follower, part of the pastor's response was to liken the blogger to "a sucking chest wound."

What may have been most remarkable about the entire affair was Wilson's role in the case of Sitler, who he ministered to after Sitler was caught. Wilson wrote the sentencing judge in Sitler's case, describing him as "most responsive" and "completely honest" and asking that criminal penalties be "measured and limited."

Wilson asked for “measured and limited civil penalties” for this pedophile.

Free Jinger, which links to sources on their blog reports here

“On August 19th, 2005, three or four months before notifying his parishioners of Sitler's crimes, Doug Wilson wrote a letter on Christ Church letterhead to Judge John Stegner. In that letter, Wilson requested leniency for Steven Sitler, writing:

"I would urge that the civil penalties applied would be measured and limited. I have a good hope that Steven has genuinely repented, and that he will continue to deal with this to become a productive and contributing member of society."

Wilson says he “covers up sin for a living.”

(Continuing in Free Jinger) “Doug Wilson has written that he believes Sitler was delusional when he was molesting children. Wilson has no training in psychology or counseling, not even ministerial training. Wilson is not ordained. In response to criticism that he did not warn his congregation or the greater Moscow community in an adequate or timely fashion, Wilson writes: "I am a pastor. I cover up sins for a living."

Sitler had a short stay in jail  from what appears to be a plea deal and will have parole supervision for the rest of his life.

In another article titiled More on the Steven James Sitler Child Molestation Case link

“He will remain subject to the jurisdiction of the Idaho Correctional System for the rest of his natural life, regardless of whether he is incarcerated or under community probation or parole supervision.“

“Wilson wrote, "I have good hope that Steven has genuinely repented, and that he will continue to deal with this to become a productive and contributing member of society.”

Wilson responds to criticism of his role in this matter. Link

He appears to believe that he did nothing wrong. However, I will give him props for one action, and only one action. He did make sure the police were notified.

So isn't this another typical church pedophile case?

Nope. Now, for the most bizarre part of this story. (Something is really wrong when pedophilia isn't the most bizarre aspect of a story). After short stint in jail due to a plea deal, Sitler is now out. One would imagine that Christ “Kirk” would be somewhat suspect of a guy who apparently admitted to molesting multiple small children. Old Dee would and i bet our readers would as well. 

The “Kirk” gets Sitler married!

Christ “Kirk” with Doug Wilson presiding over the event, married off Sitler to a 23 year old woman by the name of Katie Travis!  You may read the whole sordid tale here at Prevailing Winds.

“The background is rather simple. This young woman moved into the home of an elder at the “kirk” because she moved to teach to one of the affiliated schools. She asked the Iversons to help her find a mate because she wanted to get married. They found one-Steve Sitler who asked her parents for permission to date her. They gave their blessings.”

Read this link to Steve’s gushing excitement about this marriage which he posted on the Internet.

“We met on August 18th, 2010 at the insistence of Mr. and Mrs. Iverson. One week later we were writing emails like it was going out of style. On Katie’s first visit back to Moscow in October, we had our first date, after which I asked her father if I could start courting her. I got the pleasure of spending Christmas break with Katie’s awesome family and decided on a whim to ask her to “merry” (misspelling intentional, more on that later) me on our second date. Of course it wasn’t really a whim, I had been meticulously planning it for months. She was shocked… and speechless, but finally she said yes, and the rest, as they say, is history. I love you., Katie”

One problem: They needed to get a judge to OK  this marriage due to the possibility of children and concerns raised by officials.

Thanks to Rose Huskey, link who has relentlessly pursued this story, we learn that the "happy" couple needed to get permission from the courts to get married. Warning: whenever you need a judge's OK to get married, some questions need to be asked.

“This morning I sat in a nearly empty courtroom and listened to arguments regarding the June 11th marriage of Steven Sitler and Katie Travis. TheDepartment of Corrections unambiguously stated that they did not supportthis marriage.   In late March Mr. Sitler told his probation officer that ina year or so (predicated, apparently, on Miss Travis' graduation from acollege program) they want to start a family.  Following that conversation,and because of the potential risk to any children Mr. Sitler might father, the DOC (Department of Corrections) requested further psychologicalevaluation of Mr. Sitler.  The results of his AASI = Abel Assessment for Sexual Interest
raised concerns.”

“Mr. Wallenwaber, representing Steven Sitler, challenged the appropriatenessof the test in Mr. Sitler's case, as well as the academic credentials of the evaluator. Mr.Wallenwaber also argued that the issue in front of the court today was marriage, not potential children, which seemed to me to be an accurate statement.”

“The discussion amongst Latah County Prosecutor , Bill Thompson; JudgeStegner; and Mr. Wallenwaber, focused, in part,  on the legal consequenceif/when Steven Sitler and Katie Travis have children.  It may be the case that Mr. Sitler will not be allowed to share a home with his wife and child or children.  This remedy may be utilized in Idaho when the father is a convicted pedophile.  Judge Stegner ruled that the wedding could go forward and issues regarding the protection of children will be addressed if and children are a factor in the marriage.”

The Wedding Video Clearly Showing Doug Wilson's Particpation

The following is the wedding video made of Katie and Steve’s wedding. It made me feel sick to my stomach especially when the parents get up to extoll Katie and Steve’s relationship.

Oh yeah, in the video, Doug Wilson praises Sitler for his “logical and analytic skills that were given to him by God.” Is there any sanity at all in this group of people? May God have mercy on Katie as she faces the trials that are sure to come.

Questions

  • What parent would encourage and participate in such a marriage? (I would have popped him one, kidnapped my daughter and fled to the Tortolas).
  • What sort of pastor and church leader would fix up a naive young woman with an admitted, convicted, multiple victim pedophile?
  • What will happen to the children who will surely be born into this mess? I hope the courts are watching very, very carefully.
  • How will their children feel as they age and learn that their mother deliberately exposed them to danger?
  • How will they feel if they are removed from the home because of their potentially dangerous father?
  • Is Katie receiving therapy?
  • How could Doug Wilson ever be held up as any sort of “expert” on Christian marriage after this situation?
  • What does this say about Wilson’s views on women?
  • What does this say about Wilson’s views on pedophilia?
  • Does Doug Wilson believe that Katie should submit to a serial pedophile because hs is a male?
  • Does Sitler have authority over Katie?
  • Will this post help Jared Wilson get it?
  • What in the world does Wilson mean that he is used to “covering sins?”
  • Does anyone at The Gospel Coalition think this situation is a “Gospel marriage?”
  • Does anyone, except for people entrenched in the “Kirk,” think this marriage is advisable?

I want to thank several readers who, through their persistence, got us to look at this situation. For their protection, I will not  give their names.

Shame on Doug Wilson, et al!

A few weeks ago, we did a story on nother couple, Ian and Larissa link who we believed were misused by those who have an agenda on male authority. I believe that this is a similar situation. Doug Wilson is using the life of a young woman to shore up his cheap view of grace. A pedophile supposedly "repents" and is now a member of Wilson's "Kirk". Since Wilson "knows" Sitler is OK,  it is business as usual. 

Talk about delusion. I believe that this is a deplorable situation. Real repentance would be shown if Sitler gave up all possibilty of being near children.The children should mean more to him than his own happiness. This is not the case with his marriage unless he has been castrated and I have heard nothing about such a procedure.

Last week, we featured a video by John Piper in which he says "Doug Wilson really gets the Gospel." This is a link to that post. I think it is high time that Piper, Wilson and their like minded followers in The Gospel Coalition stop playing with the lives of vulnerable followers in order to play doctrinal gender games. Shame on all of you.

Lydia's Corner: Zechariah 12:1-13:9 Revelation 19:1-21 Psalm 147:1-20 Proverbs 31:1-7
 

Comments

The Real Doug Wilson Encouraged & Presided Over the Marriage of Serial Pedophile — 145 Comments

  1. Dee,

    As you know, I think the world of you and Wanda! You two are the best of the best, and with your MBA intellects and love for Jesus, I dare say that other than my wife (recently accepted into Vanderbilt’s prestigous medical doctoral program), I have never met two women with more spunk, acumen and perspicuity than you two.

    That being said, I disagree with the main point of this post.

    You write: “Real repentance would be shown if Sitler gave up all possibilty of being near children. The children should mean more to him than his own happiness. This is not the case with his marriage unless he has been castrated and I have heard nothing about such a procedure.”

    Let me be clear. We are in agreement regarding the awful nature of Sitler’s crimes. We are in agreement that concern should be for the victims, and not for Sitler. We are at one in our focus for the protection of children. I am intimately aware of the profound grief you experienced with a pastor “covering-up” a child predator at your own church, and as you know, I have been at the forefront in the attemtps to make widely known the names of child predators in the Southern Baptist Convention.

    My disagreement with you is over whether or not the bride, the parents, and the pastor (Doug Wilson) should have said “NO” to the marriage due to the possibility of “future” children. They said, “Yes,” and I support them in their decision–-based on my understanding of Christian liberty and grace. We are in agreement with concern about Steven’s past predatory behavior and potential future predatory behavior.

    Children to this union are not YET born. When they are, here is what the family will deal with while the children are under eighteen:

    (1). Their father will be a registered sex offender.
    (2). Their mother will be charged with being the protector of her hildren, and MUST lay down boundaries of when (and where) the children can be with their father. With video cameras, child moniters, and other surveillance, it is possible for a mother to leave her children with her husband.
    (3). Nobody can guarantee child abuse will not occur. One can only take steps to ensure it does not. IF Mr. Sittler abuses his children, with his past record, he will pay a heavy and severe price — prison for life.
    (4). A woman and her parents have the right to say “Yes” to marriage, even if the past of the groom is criminal in nature–particularly if faith in the grace of God as revealed in Christ is declared and personal repentance of past sins (and crimes) is made known. I must affirm their decision to say “Yes.”
    (5). Finally, the judge himself (i.e. “the court system”) sanctioned the marriage. Had the judge NOT sanctioned the marriage in his court of law, I would have argued against the marriage–on the basis of law. But the judge approved, and if the judge approved, and the bride and her family and her pastor approve, I myself would refrain from condemning this union.

    As friends and as Christians who love transparancy, I think it is HEALTHY that we disagree on this issue. It’s part of being a functional and productive Christian community to love one another and express disagreement in a spirit of grace!

    Could I be wrong in my opinion? Of course.

    But if Mr. and Mrs. Sittler read this post, I would like for both of them to know that I am praying for their marriage and for their future children. I am trusting that God will use Mr. Sittler’s criminal record to keep him humble and his wife vigilent. I am also praying that Katie and Steve will see this post as God’s providential way of reminding them that they will ALWAYS have to be ready to give an answer for the hope that is within them. Oh, and finally, I pray that the Sittlers read your posts on the equality of women and realize that your arguments in those posts are far more biblical than their pastors’ sermons. :) The main reason I believe this marital union should be supported is because Katie chose the union.

    I think she, above all others, will protect her future children.

    There will be many more occasions where you will disagree, and as always, fire away! Be tough, don’t back down. Stand your ground. The world needs varying viewpoints.

    In His Grace,

    Wade

    P.S. Sorry for the typos in my first comment. Hopefully, the administrator will delete it and use this corrected one. Thanks!

  2. Wade

    We are going to agree to disagree about this issue. I believe that there is a vulnerability here that is not evident in more free communities. This is a relatively closed system. The girl asked for help in finding a mate because she was unmarried at the age of 22, having lived in a protected environment all of her life. She was provided with Sitler due to the intervention of an elder with whom she was boarding. In other words, this young woman had no where near the independence that our own daughters have had in regards to dating and friendships.

    I believe that in Christ we can all come to repentance, but the freedom of grace that we experience does not mean we should place ourselves in situations that tempt us. Christ often does not heal the alcoholic who, for the rest of his life, must abstain from alcohol. The recidivism rate in pedophilia is very high. I find it difficult to believe that after having molested lots of little children, Sitler is now healed and will be able to lead a normal life. And wives of pedophiles are not known for perceptiveness. One only needs to look at Sandusky who claimed to be a Christian.

  3. Their mother will be charged with being the protector of her children — Wade

    What if she’s the “What is Thy Will, My Lord Husband? How Might I Better Submit?”

    This is a relatively closed system. — Dee

    As in “cult compound” like those polygs who got in the news a couple years ago?

    Sounds more and more like Moscow, Idaho is resembing Antelope, Oregon (Rajneeshpuram).

    The girl asked for help in finding a mate because she was unmarried at the age of 22, having lived in a protected environment all of her life. She was provided with Sitler due to the intervention of an elder with whom she was boarding. In other words, this young woman had no where near the independence that our own daughters have had in regards to dating and friendships. — Dee

    Could this be described as “Arranged Marriage”?

  4. I read this story months ago and was alarmed, too. Unless you understand the type of family/church system this is, it would be easy to think that this young lady really had a choice in marital partner. I would say that she did not have a choice. She was desperate to get married and it was pretty much arranged. Did they offer her anyone else to choose from?

  5. Wade –

    With respect, I have to disagree with you on this one.

    Although I was not raised under hyper-patriarchy, I was raised in a very controlling, manipulative environment. Understand that if this young woman moved there in order to teach at one of Wilson’s schools, she was probably a vetted follower, in patriarchy at least. She is 22 yrs old, living with an elder. The very fact that she asked them for help in finding a husband is very telling.

    In these types of groups, a woman who is unmarried at the age of 22 is looked on as unusual. There is incredible pressure to get a husband. So – and I will freely admit that I am extrapolating – here is what I see….

    – A young woman who, by her choice of job locations and her actions, has probably been raised in some form of patriarchy, moves to Moscow
    – She is housed with a church elder
    – D Wilson defends Sitler without warning his congregation, then welcomes him back into the fold upon his release
    – Wilson needs proof his judgment concerning Sitler is sound
    – Young woman expresses desire to elder for help in finding a mate
    – Voila, SITLER is introduced to young lady
    – On second date, Sitler proposes
    – Young girl is stunned
    – Sitler, by accounts, is charming (most predators can be very) – she is charmed
    – From there, if her PASTOR, the ELDER whose ‘covering’ she is living under, and her PARENTS are for the marriage….she is not in a mental position to oppose because after all, they are her ‘authority figures’ and will ‘always look out for her best interest’.

    Again, I know that I am making a lot of extrapolations from the story. But I understand the mentality that requires you to do what you are told and believe it is good. Like I said, I was not raised in a patriarchal family, but the fear and control my parents exercised over me lasted well into adulthood – they were still able to ground me (i.e., tell me I’m grounded and me obey) after I was in college. My mother was able to control my friendships up until just a few years ago.

    “The main reason I believe this marital union should be supported is because Katie chose the union.” – Wade

    You see, I’m not convinced, from what I have heard of this story, that this is strictly true…..

    And one final thing, you said “I think she [young wife], above all others, will protect her future children.” Umm… in my experience, someone who will marry an convicted abuser is willing to not see clearly from the beginning – I vehemently do not trust her to protect her children just because she is their mother. My mother has always (and continues to as far as I am aware) sided with and protected those who molested me – even when I was only 2 1/2 years old. Looking to this young woman to protect her children in the face of this situation is extremely naive, in my opinion.

  6. The penalty for Katie if she has a child and abuse occurs is that the state will take the child and terminate her rights as a parent, so the child can be adopted. She may also be criminally charged with a felony for failing to protect her child from a known pedophile. It is a very tight box that she will be in, and anything suspicious will result in an investigation and possibly the terrible consequence of losing both her husband and her child, as well as her freedom. I doubt anyone has told her explicitly about that small box in which she will live.

  7. Jeannette raised a very important point here: From there, if her PASTOR, the ELDER whose ‘covering’ she is living under, and her PARENTS are for the marriage….she is not in a mental position to oppose because after all, they are her ‘authority figures’ and will ‘always look out for her best interest’.

    In this patriarchal families, young ladies turn over the choice of their future mate to their fathers. The suitor must pass the father’s test first. If the fathers deemed this relationship to be good, then this obedient and compliant daughter would assume that her father wants what is best for her and that he would only pick the best possible mate. It would not be like her to question or second guess the decision. These young ladies have not been trained to think for themselves. They have been trained from a very young age that their father is the keeper of their hearts and will release them to marry when the time is right and to the right person. Who are they to question such a thing?

  8. Serious question (I’m not trying to be funny or cute)…

    What kind of intelligent, mature 22 year old woman marries a man with his criminal record unless she: a) didn’t know about it or b) was coerced into doing so?

  9. Julie Anne

    There was no one else offered by the elder to her as far as I know. There is no record of it on the internet.

  10. An Attorney and Wade –

    I hope she has been given all this information. The information that both of you state should have been given her before she made any decision. I am not very trusting in Doug Wilson’s ability to communicate this important information clearly enough for Katie to completely grasp. I hope the court communicated clearly and had everyone sign contracts. Maybe the couple has decided not to have children but, even so, there are always children around in a church environment.

    In the end, I tend to agree more with Dee. If a person has never been involved with the type of mindset that is in some of the patriarchal groups, they may not understand how naive a female young adult might be. We can only pray for the best.

  11. I’m not real comfortable asking this question, but I’m curious so I’ll ask it anyway. Is a pedophile even capable of having normal sexual relations with an adult woman?

  12. Victorious –

    Who knows? Would a pedophile be apt to be honest about that question? That is a question for a psychiatrist who is an expert in the area.

  13. Dee,

    I agree 100% with your post.

    When I think about this, I can only pray God will protect the children if any. I pray the mother will protect her children. I hope she does and will not be threatened to compromise. There are lots of mothers who do not protect their children for any number of reasons. I cannot presume to know that she above all others will protect her future children. I hope for that. I do not know her. But I think it’s a very heavy burden with which to enter a marriage. Was it legal to do? Yes. Was it wise? Was it the best the elders at Christ Church could do for Katie? Did she agree to this burden? Obviously, but I am not personally familiar with how courtship marriages work…how much parental pressure is there, etc. But I do think it is shocking for a pastor to not know better than to place this burden on a young woman…or not care and recommend him for her. I simply find a lot of lack of true caring and doing unto others. We already know Doug Wilson does not think rapists are a good pool from which to pick nice sons-in law…(would he have picked him for one of his daughters?)… why did he pick one for Katie?

  14. Well… two words sum this up (imo):

    “Criminal” and “cult.”

    Wade – there is NO way I can imagine any child being safe from this man. So I cannot agree with you (in all good conscience). Especially not after finding out that he molested a two-year-old!!!

  15. Victorious
    It is a great question. Sexuality can be individualized. For example, my uncle came out as a homosexual after siring two children with my aunt. So, this man could probably have relations with his wife. Unfortunately, he could still (and is most likely) interested in children. That sort of perversion is notoriously difficult to overcome and will need years of therapy. I would not want to be his wife, hoping for a normal marriage.

  16. Sex abuse is about control, not really sex. So, yes, pedophiles can have somewhat normal sexual relationships with their spouses. Pedophiles I am familiar with are all married with children.

  17. You all have made excellent points.

    I admit that my opinion may be tainted by my high view of women and respect for a woman’s choice and ignorance of patriarchy and arranged marriages. My daughter is close to Katie’s age and I am trying to put myself in her shoes (she just married) were she Katie. I tried to also put myself in the parents’ shoes of Katie. My point is–I don’t know the situation, including the bride and groom, the parents, and the circumstances. That’s why I can’t agree in coming to the conclusion that the marriage is necessarily wrong.

    We are all in agreement the groom’s past crimes are horrific and that there are continuing (lifetime) consequences for the perpetrator. I am just not convinced that he must remain celibate for his entire life–particularly if the legal system and the judge says he is free to marry.

    Where I could be absolutely wrong (and I freely admit it) is if Katie was FORCED to marry the young man. But after watching the wedding, she didn’t seem to be doing something against her will.

    Once again, thanks for your work for the Kingdom.

  18. Victorious-

    “I’m not real comfortable asking this question, but I’m curious so I’ll ask it anyway. Is a pedophile even capable of having normal sexual relations with an adult woman?”

    Physically? Absolutely. A large number of pedophiles begin with their own children and move on to others when their own get ‘too old’. Many pedophiles have wives and families that, when the man is caught, had no idea. Think of Sandusky – married with children….

    I think because the idea of pedophilia is so abhorrent to the normal mind, we tend to view them as monsters that must be able to be discerned by anyone close to them. We want to be able to easily identify the monsters among us. It is difficult to conceive of the idea that a pedophile might look normal – act normal – be nice and friendly and seem like a ‘good guy’. But they often do. They are masters at deception – it is required to successfully lure a child into that position and do so multiple times under the other adults’ noses. They know they must be ‘model citizens’ to get away with. It is one of many reasons they are so hard to catch – the people in their circle of friends/acquaintances have no idea.

  19. A few thoughts…………
    1. Wilson has no training to understand the ramifications of pedophilia.
    2. Wilson is partly responsible for any future abuse that this man commits.
    3. Lust for children is not going to be pacified via marriage. Perversion does not just “go away.”
    4. This is one of the cases AGAINST having a lot of children…which Wilson will believe is a function of marriage.
    5. ANY woman desperate/conned into marrying a convicted pedophile is neither wise or actually able to be part of a Biblical marriage…this is a SICK relationship from the get-go.
    6. Fools marry/propose after such a short time, not wise persons.
    7. The “godless, secular, foolish, evil” WORLD system has shamed Wilson and he is too stupid to see it.

  20. Not to hijack the thread, but how does this all shake out?
    1) Will we see a response from Piper or Justin Taylor?
    2) Will Doug Wilson’s stock rise in the TGC crowd? I anticipate they’ll play the martyr card to further their agenda.
    3) At some point, Jared Wilson will stop playing the victim card. His last post on the subject was tragically misguided and more than selfish. I guess it’s ok for guys like Driscoll and Wilson to be on the offensive, but heaven forbid the tables be turned.
    4) Will the “news” of this marriage and Sitler’s heinous crimes finally reach the TGC crowd, or will the continue to bury their heads in the sand?
    5) What can be said when this crowd fights for the innocence of a man like Doug Wilson and then throws a man like Rick Warren (faults and all) to the wolves?

  21. I am just not convinced that he must remain celibate for his entire life–

    I could be wrong here, but it seems as though this man has been literally handed the best of two worlds…a wife for his sexual needs and a likely family of children to meet the other needs.

  22. Wade,

    “My daughter is close to Katie’s age and I am trying to put myself in her shoes (she just married) were she Katie. I tried to also put myself in the parents’ shoes of Katie.”

    It is hard for me to fathom this promotion of Sitler by Wilson as a suitable mate for her. I do not wish to pry into what you would do…or if a convicted pedophile would be a choice you could approve of for your own daughter with a good conscience…but any insights into why/how a pastor could place this burden on a young woman would be appreciated. I cannot reconcile the looking out for the flock under his care and his promoting this man with this huge burden for her…along with the fact that she could agree to it and not be alarmed at how her life will look with kids.

    Secondly, my concern is not in keeping him celibate for the rest of his life. He is free to marry. I do not wish for him a life of being alone. My concern is the children that, last I read, he fully intends to have. In the wedding video, a prayer was said for the blessing of children. Unless he is miraculously cured (no) then I wonder about his sincerety or his understanding of his condition. I wonder why this declaration of his intent to have children instead of perhaps a desire to take measures to prevent that and find a wife who could agree to that? Am I making any sense? Why does this whole thing seem like unnecessarily borrowing trouble?

  23. 4) Will the “news” of this marriage and Sitler’s heinous crimes finally reach the TGC crowd, or will the continue to bury their heads in the sand?

    I do not think they will care.

  24. Wade – the recidivism rate for pedophiles is… well, take a guess.

    I understand that you wish to “believe the best,” but I think that if you speak with anyone who has been involved in trying to help victims – and who has insight into the typical actions of pedophiles – you will find that this situation is going to explode (if it hasn’t already).

    For my part, I know that I would *never* want any child of mine to marry a pedophile, any more than I would wish for them to marry a rapist. There is no known cure for pedophilia, and while some people might feel true remorse for their victims, that in and of itself does NOTHING to lessen the compulsion – nor to make it impossible for them to victimize others.

    In fact, the likelihood that they WILL assault other children is pretty much a given.

  25. Wade – I’d like to recommend this organization (which Dee and Deb have linked to in their blogroll): http://www.snapnetwork.org/

    I think there’s plenty available on-site that will help clarify Dee’s statements, and those of many of us regular commenters here at TWW.

  26. 1. Wilson vigorously rejects “secular psychology”, etc. This means that with regard to all or any mandated counseling or therapy which Sitler receives from agents of the state, he will be instructed and presumably believe is false and to be rejected. This also means that any analysis, diagnosis, or assessment provided by medical and psychological professionals will be discounted.

    2. The Moscow group has established its own counseling center, which means that Sitler’s ongoing care (if any exists) will be provided by Wilson and like-minded individuals.

    3. One of my takeaways from the 50 Shades thing was that Wilson seems to believe (and he would hardly be unique in this respect – see Driscoll, M.) that “biblical sex” is curative or preventative. As I thought on this, it provided to me the only internal logic for a series of events that otherwise seem insane on the face of it. In fact, it would not surprise me in the least if Wilson denies the existence of pedophilia as a disorder, and sees it only as a sinful choice or temptation which can be therapeutically handled in part, through “proper sex”.

    4. Sitler’s original crime was heinous enough that he was facing a life sentence. The sentence was reduced as part of a deal to provide a full accounting of his victims. In a scene that I imagine must have been much like the final episode of The Shield, Sitler reveals that far from a single event or victim, this was a long-term pattern of deviant criminal behavior. To be clear, that long-term pattern of deviant behavior was raping small children.

    5. This behavior appears to have taken place undetected within the context of his membership and participation in multiple churches, his seminary, and Christian homes. This means that for much of his life, Sitler has been an expert liar, manipulator, and deceiver, not merely with regard to the rapes he was committing, but with regard to his own spiritual condition. And he has been lying, manipulating, and deceiving the very people who we are now told are competent to provide spiritual care and oversight. Furthermore, the only person who can truly know what Sitler’s spiritual or psychological condition is, is Sitler himself. So you are relying on accurate self-assessment and honest communication from a person who lied, deceived, and manipulated everyone around him in order to rape children for years on end.

    6. The fact that Sitler would be facing a life sentence if he re-offends actually makes things worse. Many people confess their crimes in hopes of leniency. Sitler himself was apparently unwilling to reveal his victims without a deal, which hardly sounds like Biblical repentance. Knowing that he would face Life would provide a strong justification to vigorously deny any future offenses. Furthermore, it places an enormous burden on the wife, who, if she were to make or corroborate an accusation, would know exactly what would happen. This has proven a difficult burden for non-patriarchal women, much less a woman steeped in a culture in which the man “conquers” and the woman “submits”. It would also create enormous pressure on the church to handle matters in-house.

    7. Though the judge ultimately allowed the wedding, I think it is worth nothing that every other representative of the state, and the actual mental health experts, appears to have opposed it. Is it not possible that people who deal with serial sexual predators regularly might have a better grip on the reality of the situation than a group of people who had a serial predator in their midst and didn’t even know it…?

  27. That Bad Dog – thank you for summing things up so well.

    As for Sitler, he should be in prison.

  28. Diane,

    You ask some excellent questions. I think I will refrain answering a hypothetical because I could see each situation (from a pastor’s perspective) as being different. Honestly, my only thoughts right now are for Katie. I just felt led to offer her a word of encouragement. I think she may read this on the Internet, and if she never felt controlled or manipulated to marry Steven, and if she feels she really loves her husband and chose of her own free-will to marry him, and if she believes he is genuinely repentant of his sin and crimes, then I wanted her to know that I stand by her decision. That’s all. And, of course, the attorney’s advice above (and my own words about her responsibility toward her future children) apply. I am too much of a softie sometimes. :) And, I freely admit, Katie reminds me of my daughter and if she were to say to me what I’ve outlined above, then I would accept her decision, regardless of her husband’s past. Obviously, I approach things from an open and transparant perspective, and I may be totally clueless because of my complete unfamiliarity experientially with patriarchy.

    That’s why I am listening to all the comments with an open mind and don’t mind any attempts at correcting my perceived errors in thinking.

  29. A couple of comments.
    First, people in these circles tend to discount the value of psychology and therapy, feeling it diminishes the “sufficiency of Christ”. They choose instead “Biblical counseling”, i.e. “read these verses and call me in the morning.” This would serve to explain why Wilson feels so confident in setting this young lady up with a pedophile groom.
    Someone also noted that pedophiles can be very charming. My wife’s first husband was a pedophile. They caught him trying to molest the kids she was babysitting. While she divorced him immediately after that revelation, she was also tarred by guilt via association. It wasn’t until 10 years later, a new husband, and a move across the state that she was allowed to watch kids that weren’t related to her. Our church has a policy of getting background checks on all volunteers, and my wife requested that a check also be run with DCFS, as she had had troubles with them as a result of her first husband’s antics. It came back clear.
    I feel for this young woman, as I’m not hopeful about this guy short of a miracle from God.

  30. That Bad Dog –

    In light of what you summed up above, all of us should be (and I am) as upset with the Judge in this case as I am with anyone else. Does Sitler even have an ankle monitor on??? Seriously — to go from deserving a life sentence in prison to a lifetime of parole and marriage and possible children is just bizarre to me. How did the justice system justify this?

  31. I feel sorry for the wife. If she has a child that is removed by whatever version of CPS exists in Moscow, Idaho the burden to prove the child would be safe in her care would be entirely on her as the system rarely holds males very accountable in potential abuse situations.

  32. It seems to me, in other words, this is just my opinion… if Sitler were truly repentant, he would readily embrace a life of singleness. Knowing, accepting, and repenting, of the true nature of his illness, would preclude marriage and the possibility of parenting children. I’m not discrediting the mercy and forgiveness of their savior. But I am saying, that having experienced such grace and forgiveness for his heinous acts with children, he would readily, and with humility, accept a life void of intimate relationships with them. Anything less is pure arrogance and ignorance on his part and the parts of anyone who plays a role in this marriage. Again, this is just my opinion.

  33. EG

    Guess who started this whole mess with an inadvertent (perhaps God ordained ) link to Jared’s post. I am so glad that there is an explosion.

  34. Bridegt

    It is well known that many pedophiles marry in order to breed their own victims. This was always a problem when I did child abuse and neglect followup. I had one family who had 8 children removed due to such abuse over the years. As soon as one kid was removed, the mother would get pregnant again. It was a horror show unitl I convinced her that pregnancies were hard on her body. This will freak out the anti-conception people. I got her to get a tubal liagtion and even drove her to the appointment which was against regulations. I walked her in and sat until she was under anesthesia. i got a grateful call from the local judge.

    Oh yeah, the final kid at 9 months,got a depressed skull fracture along with other forms of abuse.

  35. Mike

    If you read the comments on Doug’s blog, written by Doug, he claims not to respect “secular” psychology but he allows it if court mandated. Another commenter agreed with him. “Biblical”counseling in these situations is dangerous. Also, might I point out, why is secular counseling always “non-Biblical” to these guys? We have no trouble using secular insulin, secular antibiotics, etc. Sometimes, secular people may be doing God’s will. After all, we are all created in the image of God and He is sovereign over all.

  36. Wade

    You are an awesome person who always runs to the side of grace! That is why we all love you over here. In fact, I would far rather you err on more  grace as opposed to more legalism which has been seen over at TGC with the comments of both Wilsons accusing my dear readers and others of needing ESL, having poor reading comprehension. etc. This will stand as a testament to the lack of missional spirit amongst some of the missional bloviators.

    There is one other side of me that you may not know. For three years I did child abuse and neglect followup. At one point 50% of my caseload was child abuse. In fact, it burned me out. One of my final cases, until I took an easier job of discharge planning to heal from the experience, involved a family who had 8 kids removed, sequentially, due to all sorts of perverted child abuse. As soon as one was removed, the wife got pregnant again. I finally convinced her to get a tubal ligation and drove her there myself which was against regulations since I put her in my car. But the lives of children were at stake. I receiveed a phone call from a local judge thanking me. Her last child, at 9 months old, was removed due to a depressed skull fracture along with all sorts of other sick abuse. Their faces haunt me to this day.

    Many pedophiles attempt to get married and have children because it gives them easy access to children. They have power over the child as a dad and can threaten the child using all sorts of devious methods. The wife is usually submissive and has been trained to look the other way. In this situation, she is also pushed to totally submit to the husband due th the beliefs of this unusual group of people. Although this family will be watched, I speak from experience to say that the child protection services in this country are way understaffed and underfunded.

    As you may know, Jaycee Duggard is suing the child services in her area. Her abductor was supposed to be watched. The workers would come to the door and leave, not bothering to search the premises (which they had the right to do).If they had, they would have found her. Instead she spent years as a sex slave to a sick man(and his wife who let it happen) and had 2 children by him. I do not blame the workers since they cannot keep up what is expected of them. I blame the system which, in many instances, is insufficient. 

    I do not trust the wife, the husband or the “kirk” to do the right thing in this matter. 

  37. Numo

    Sitler should be in prison but he did a plea deal. Just like the situation in Oregon, the full extent of his perversion was not known until after the deal.

  38. That Bad Dog

    Your assessment is spot on. I may use it in a coming post in the next week as a summation. You nailed the counseling thing as did Mike. In fact, I have statements from Wilson claiming not to trust “secular” psychology. I just didn’t have enough room in this sordid tale. We may need to emphasize that in a post.

  39. Numo

    I love SNAP. They advised me once a few years back and their insight is wonderful.To this day, i take Barabra Dorris’ advice. She said that “No matter what hapens, always keep you eye on the victims.” They are the main thing and when I find myself getting off track, I reign myself in with this advice.. In fact, I have yet to hear anyone at the “kirk” expressing any real concern for the little children who were raped.

  40. Numo

    The remorse is always expressed after getting caught. Few pedophiles turn themselves in when they get “remorseful.” That is why I am always suspicious of the crocodile tears when being confronted with prison.

  41. If this man WERE repentant he would not only remain single but also have himself castrated. Or, take the example of Tom White and he would no longer be able to damage anyone for life.

  42. - Young woman expresses desire to elder for help in finding a mate
    – Voila, SITLER is introduced to young lady
    – On second date, Sitler proposes
    – Young girl is stunned
    –Jeanette Altes

    Because now she’ll be MARRIED, a REAL Christian allowed to sit at the grown-up women’s table instead of an Old Maid at the ripe old age of 22. Salvation by Marriage Alone.

  43. HUG –

    Your comment is brings up a good point. Why is it that these woman feel so incomplete?

  44. Also, might I point out, why is secular counseling always “non-Biblical” to these guys? — Dee

    Because secular counseling is in direct competiton to Dianetics.

    “Just like Dianetics, Except CHRISTIAN(TM)!”

    “You DARE Rebel Against God’s Anointed?”

  45. A real MAN would not have let Sitler get anywhere NEAR his daughter and would have threatened civil/personal action if he got anywhere NEAR his property.

  46. In this situation, she is also pushed to totally submit to the husband due th the beliefs of this unusual group of people. Although this family will be watched, I speak from experience to say that the child protection services in this country are way understaffed and underfunded. — Dee

    Don’t forget that to a lot of Christians, CPS is The Antichrist. Period. SECULAR GOVERNMENT workers who will Confiscate Christian Children on trumped-up abuse definitions and raise them as Good Little Secular Humanists, obediently lining up for the Mark on their foreheads and right hands. I’m pretty sure that’s the rep CPS has in Wilson’s little Rajneeshpuram in Moscow, Idaho.

    And I’m pretty sure there’s been enough CPS bureaucratic screwups and Kyle’s Moms/Nurse Ratcheds in CPS throwing their weight around to give the trope credibility.

    Given that, you think they wouldn’t hide things from CPS workers? “Shall we obey GOD or Man?”

  47. Your comment is brings up a good point. Why is it that these woman feel so incom — Brigit

    Because of de facto Salvation by Marriage Alone. It’s been covered now and then over at Internet Monk when the subject is singles. Check the comment thread here for the last time the subject came up.

    You see, Singles have cooties. And when you finally say “I Do” and are married and can Focus on Your Family, you are now cootie-free (the Elders have pronounced you Clean) and are finally allowed to sit at the grown-ups’ table at church. When that kicks in, you get some really crazy desperation moves to get hitched as quick as possible.

    Add to that a male-supremacist cult where a woman has NO status unless she is married and breeding, and then she has the status of her Husband, and…

  48. Hug –

    Your comment brings up a good point. Why does this young women feel so incomplete and “in need” of a husband to begin with? Has she not been taught that Christ is her sufficiency? Her story sounds as if she has been taught that her main purpose in life is to marry and have children. Being in an environment which leaves a woman feeling like an old maid at age 22 brings into question the environment. I totally understand a desire to be married and have a family. I wasn’t married until 27, which isn’t considered late by today’s standards, but I never felt without purpose or desperate and even came to terms with possibly never marrying. I concluded that it might be difficult, but God loved me no less than anyone else, and He had purpose for my life with or without a husband. I didn’t have a view that my only purpose in life was a husband and children, even though they were a desire. A person who feels incomplete and “needing” a spouse can be in a very vulnerable frame of mind.

  49. It is difficult to conceive of the idea that a pedophile might look normal – act normal – be nice and friendly and seem like a ‘good guy’. But they often do. They are masters at deception – it is required to successfully lure a child into that position and do so multiple times under the other adults’ noses. They know they must be ‘model citizens’ to get away with. — Jeanette Altes

    Because if they weren’t good at camouflaging what they are, they would have been caught LONG ago. “Appearing as an angel of light” is a necessary survival skill for a SUCCESSFUL pedophile or sociopath.

  50. VERY hard story to read. Not only is Wilson a racist but he also supports convicted pedophiles as long as they are under his control, has no issues letting them run free in his “kirk” and marry an unsuspecting girl. Wilson’s “Kirk” seems more like a cult to me.

    Wade – I am not attacking you at all, but I do have to disagree with your assessment. I have a different view – while God can and does forgive sin, my take is that you still need to answer for your sin. For example, if you murder someone and repent for the sin (and the crime) of murder God can and will forgive you. BUT you still need to answer for your crimes in this life. If you murdered someone, if you are TRULY repentant, you will answer for your crime and accept the punishment given by the state, even if that punishment is the death penalty.

    Anyone that does those unspeakable evil acts to a child that Sitler did and truly repents needs to accept responsibility for their actions. Sitler did not, he got off easy with the help of his cult (kirk) leader Doug Wilson. If Sitler was really, truly repentant, he would have served his time and not tried to get married to someone. He would stay as far away from children as possible. He would still be in jail to this day for he actions.

    What Doug Wilson did by pushing for a reduced sentence and then pushing for the ability for Sitler to marry is wrong. Very wrong. And more of a sin than many of the church-created “sins” (The calvinistas are infamous for creating new sins). Doug Wilson once again did the wrong thing. And much like a Penn State recruiter, he has put children in danger.

    Dee & Deb – thanks again for bringing the dark into the light.

  51. EG, arewomenhuman.me is a theologically liberal and pro-homosexual blog. Read the about page and recommended reading page on it.

  52. Let’s see… Last week I advised my daughters to NEVER marry a complementarian.

    Wanna take a wild guess how I would react if one of my daughters wanted to marry a convicted pedophile?

  53. Bear in mind that around 10% of that town’s residents are directly involved with the Douglas Wilson organizations (church, school, college, ‘seminary’, publishing house, ‘accrediting’ council, etc.) and many more are indirectly connected. The financial value and impact alone of all that exerts a huge influence.

    One critic has called it “Douglas Wilson’s Religious Empire”

  54. What kind of intelligent, mature 22 year old woman marries a man with his criminal record unless she: a) didn’t know about it or b) was coerced into doing so?

    ScotT,

    One other reason could be because the church leadership may have convinced her he is repentant and all this is in the past. He may have demonstrated what would look like repentance and convinced them all he is. Wilson seems to believe he is repentant and has pleaded for him so this is highly likely, assuming she knows the situation. I know this sort of thing happens because in my circle there is a woman whose husband has done bad things and has claimed repentance. The wife has seen none of this so called repentance and has taken appropriate action. The response from the church leadership has been “but he’s repented!”

    If we give him the benefit of the doubt we can say it’s possible Sitler is repentant. I have grave doubts of this because it is so rare that an abuser of any sort genuinely repents. However, even if Sitler is one of those rare ones that really is repentant, that does not mean he should be trusted. This is a weakness in him that marriage is not going to fix.

    I also fear the possibility that they are thinking it is going to fix him: that the reason Sitler has these problems is he needs a wife. What he really needs is a good wife to service his needs and he’ll be fine. Then of course it will be her fault when it doesn’t work.

  55. Anonymous –

    If I ever found out that a guilt trip was put on this young woman because her husband returned to his past sins, I would be taking a trip to Katie’s hometown to have a conversation!

  56. I don’t care if the guy is repentant – you DON’T MARRY HIM!!!! It’s one of those deal-breakers, or at least it should be for any near competent adult woman. She was only 22 years old, in the prime of her life. Look, if they were both in their 40s or 50s and his past was long in the distance, then I could understand it a bit better (a bit, just that much). But she was young, had a college degree, albeit from an unaccredited crazy place, and her life was in front of her. This reinforces everything I said above: a) either she was coerced or b) the truth was hidden from her.

    Look, Doug Wilson has publicly stated that he is in favor of the death penalty for adulterers. Here we have a convicted pedophile rapist, and Doug marries him off. Hell, he officiated the service. So why the contradiction? Why the sudden grace? The only explanation is a systemic cover-up. And, that leads me to believe that this poor girl was thrown on the altar to (or to the wolves).

  57. ScotT,

    As the mother of daughters who just turned 23 and 20, I’m with you!  What were the parents of the bride thinking?!  I am so concerned about this situation.

  58. I don’t think Jared, Doug, their followers and fellow travellers get how their actions come across to us heathens, agnostics and/or former Christians. The preaching is that church should be a safe place. The reality is that in this situation, because of a belief system which sees women as inferior, a known, CONVICTED pedophile is married off to an unsuspecting woman. This man is so legally repulsive to children that he may not be allowed to live in the same house as his own future children. Yet if you quizzed Doug, Jared, etc. you’d likely hear that single parent homes are wrong. What’s the difference?

    Moreover, this is the kind of cr*p that convinces me as a single adult female that I did the absolute right thing by bagging the church. The church isn’t a safe place, not with predator enablers like Doug Wilson and predator promoters like Jared Wilson and John Piper. Maybe The World should hear about this and express its outrage since the remonstrations of church people have obviously made no impact and caused a change of behavior.

  59. @ScotT,

    I’m summarizing a bit but Wilson’s position essentially works out like this:

    1. Yes, Biblical law requires or at least allows the death penalty for pedophiles.

    2. But, we are not living in a nation under under Biblical law (“play[ing] chess on a backgammon board” as he has described it).

    3. Therefore, Doug Wilson can do whatever he wants.

    4. You are nowhere near as smart or important as Doug Wilson, and are probably incapable of grasping the ins and outs of this very complicated situation, so why don’t you shut up about it already you “sucking chest wound.”

    That’s pretty much it.

  60. Never Again –

    Thanks for that link. It is a fascinating (yet sick) synopsis of Wilson’s doctrines. Do you know the date of its writing by any chance or the purpose?

    Dee and Deb – you need to peruse that link.

  61. Bear in mind that around 10% of that town’s residents are directly involved with the Douglas Wilson organizations (church, school, college, ‘seminary’, publishing house, ‘accrediting’ council, etc.) and many more are indirectly connected. The financial value and impact alone of all that exerts a huge influence. — Never Again

    Like I said: another RAJNEESHPURAM. (With or without the salmonella culture slipped into the salad bars just before Election Day…)

    One other reason could be because the church leadership may have convinced her he is repentant and all this is in the past. … I know this sort of thing happens because in my circle there is a woman whose husband has done bad things and has claimed repentance. The wife has seen none of this so called repentance and has taken appropriate action. The response from the church leadership has been “but he’s repented!” — anonymous

    ABRACADABRA — slurred Aramaic for “I Speak and IT IS SO!”

    As the mother of daughters who just turned 23 and 20, I’m with you! What were the parents of the bride thinking?! — Deb

    Since Wilson is a Calvinista and a Darling of Calvinistas, it’s simple: “IN’SHAL’LAH — GOD HATH WILLED IT. DO YOU DOUBT THE SOVERIGNITY OF GOD?”

  62. I’m surprised that Sitler has a blog, and that the Sitler wedding video was posted online.

  63. Now this is a good discussion.

    I, too, had to admit that when I read this post I kept thinking about how embarrassed that poor girl must feel. To have your marriage exposed and critiqued. I am not sure I could take it. I clearly see the pastoral side of Wade in his response.

    For all we know, this young woman in a closed, Reformed, courtship type of situation, finds all of this quite normal.

    Who knows how much she or her parents know about this man. I doubt that they had access to all of the interviews with the molested children or the psych evaluations of her husband.

    She is acting on faith and love, and all we can do is hope and pray for the best.

    Then, there is the side of analyzing what happened. It is so bizarre, it’s hard to comprehend.

    I am sympathetic to the forgiveness side. The church cannot become a place where there is an unforgivable sin – child molestation. Christ died for child molesters.

    But we are also not to be ignorant, and we are to be protective. That is where churches fall down. The naivete, the failure to involve law enforcement and other professionals, the endangerment of others by lack of vigilance and oversight etc. I could go on and on here.

    I am upset that there is a vestage of Christianity that organized to allow this kind of thing to go on – but then I think – look at the U.S. Catholic Church.

    But in the evangelical world, it upsets me more because I am a part of this.

    I like many things in the Reformed movement and some of the emphases it has brought to the table in the last few years.

    But I don’t appreciate the weirdness. And I believe that blogs like this are helpful because they expose and call out the people that promote the weird things all around us.

  64. One critic has called it “Douglas Wilson’s Religious Empire” — Never Again

    Read through that link. Moscow, Idaho IS the New Rajneeshpuram — a cult compound that’s taking over the town.

    And there’s a link in that link titled “Southern Slavery as it Wasn’t” about Wilson’s “Southern Slavery as it Was”. Wilson is definitely living in Ku Klux Kountry.

  65. I’ve been reading up on this culture in Moscow, ID with Wilson and his group which really sounds like the same culture of the homeschooling community: patriarchal, large families, keep their distance from anything in the government, no outside counseling (keep everything in-house). These kinds of pastors think they have all the answers for even the most difficult problems. They are fearful of government involvement (removing children from families) and especially don’t like psychology because all problems like these are the result of sin and psychology removes the responsibility of sin and doesn’t deal with that issue. Having outside help makes them feel they have lost their sense of control over the group and also allows outside philosophies to enter into the system.

    We have seen clear examples of this with Sovereign Grace Ministries, my own church, Household of Faith, etc. It’s a recipe for disaster.

  66. I’m surprised that Sitler has a blog, and that the Sitler wedding video was posted online. — Nicholas

    “The Adultress wipes her mouth and says ‘I Have Not Sinned’.” — somewhere in Proverbs

  67. “Look, Doug Wilson has publicly stated that he is in favor of the death penalty for adulterers. Here we have a convicted pedophile rapist, and Doug marries him off. Hell, he officiated the service. So why the contradiction? Why the sudden grace? The only explanation is a systemic cover-up. And, that leads me to believe that this poor girl was thrown on the altar to (or to the wolves).”

    Perhaps it is part of that winsome ambiguity that John “you just have to know him” Piper says about Doug.

    I think part of my problem is I am trying to view these men through what I deem should be a normal Christian pastor’s behavior. Pastors protect their sheep, or should. All the sheep—not just known victims but yet to be discovered victims. They should do unto others as they would have done to them. They should want the best and should place others above themselves.

    In their patriarchal world is this sin of pedophilia (which Doug deems worthy of death) no worse than any other sin?–you just need to repent? If it happens again, repent? If convicted and there are legal consequences, deal with them but you have still repented so therefore it really is not that big of a deal? (Although we have Wilson saying he views Sitler as dangerous…yet, yet married this dangerous man to a 22 year old.) But a dangerous convicted pedophile is no big burden in a marriage in the long run, I guess, since he and the other elder willingly set Sitler up with her. ? When did dangerous mean not dangerous?

    Perhaps I am not comprehending the meaning of the word dangerous. Just like I, with my poor reading skills, do not understand the meaning of the words conquer, colonize, plant, receive, surrender, authority, submit.

    If Doug Wilson holds a negative view towards secular mental health and deems his church to be Sitler’s primary mental health venue, his sin of pedophilia to be cured with written assignments, counseling, bible reading–what have you (see Wilson’s letter to the judge for info on the things he had Sitler do during his counseling with him) and indeed describes Sitler’s motive for his sins as “discontentment”, then I guess I am begining to see how a marriage might ease that discontentment (in Wilson’s thinking). Maybe? Just trying to comprehend all this. Failing.

    Why did Wilson keep silent for 8 months after the arrest that a serial pedophile had been in their midst for 1 year ad a half? He said he had full hope Sitler had “repented.” Why the need to keep it secret? Does Wilson have some sort of selective love toward his congregation? Only known victims get protection…anyone else who may have been victimized by Sitler in those 18 months…well, if we don;’t already know about it–too bad. ?? I would have been outraged. What kind of stupor are those people at his church in? What kind of level of superiority do the people in his congregation ascribe to Wilson to have let that one go by without an uproar?

    And does he hold the community in which he lives in similar contempt? Did he tell it to the news? Immediately? Why was Sitler able to leave town?

    If it was not to cover the whole thing up (since it was at the same time as the slavery book “problems” were taking place and he certainly did not need further negative attention drawn to him), then what reason is their for not immediately telling his congregation? I know he says that since Sitler was not residing in Moscow anymore, “the danger was over” –danger for future victims, yes, but what of the yet to be discovered (possible) victims that would have be identified by parental questioning once they had this information? I mean, 8 months is a long time and children’s memories would not be as fresh.

  68. We have seen clear examples of this with Sovereign Grace Ministries, my own church, Household of Faith, etc. It’s a recipe for disaster. — Julie Anne

    We’ve also seen clear examples of the Isolated Cult Compound trying to take over the town — Rajnesshpuram, OR (the Rajneeshies), Clearwater, FL (Scientology, which shares the rabid opposition to outsiders’ psychology), and the most spectacular example, Jonestown (People’s Temple — which instead of taking over an exist’g town started their own).

  69. “Look, Doug Wilson has publicly stated that he is in favor of the death penalty for adulterers. Here we have a convicted pedophile rapist, and Doug marries him off. Hell, he officiated the service. So why the contradiction? Why the sudden grace?”

    First three things that popped into my head, along with “When does Dangerous not mean Dangerous”:

    1) All Animals are Equal but some (Wilson and his Yes-Men) are More Equal than Others?

    2) You can’t commit adultery with your own animate property (such as your daughters)?

    3) Maybe Sitler only goes after little girls? (Afte all, it’s HOMOSEXUALITY that’s the Unpardonable Sin.)

  70. Southwestern Discomfort

    I saw his response to you on his blog. It made me so mad that I am planning on writing a post about it next Monday. I am saddened by the response of my fellow Christians who claim to know the Gospel and Bible far better than the rest of us poor slugs. Too bad it doesn’t ring true. Yet they also claim to be missional. I told some folks such statements will not play in Peoria (or the Southwest) so I wonder how they define missional.

    Please accept my heartfelt apologies for your treatment at the hands of The Gospel Coalition’s Jared Wilson and Doug Wilson. Please know that you are always welcome here and your thoughts and opinions are important to old Dee and Deb.

  71. That Bad Dog

    I was disturbed by his statement in which he called a dissenter a “sucking chest wound.”  Frankly, he sucks himself. (Sorry-he brought up the word suck)

  72. Nicholas

    Typical pedophile. They think they are smarter than everybody else so they blithely share their lives, taunting their victims and readers with their freedom.

  73. The church isn’t a safe place, not with predator enablers like Doug Wilson and predator promoters like Jared Wilson and John Piper. Maybe The World should hear about this and express its outrage since the remonstrations of church people have obviously made no impact and caused a change of behavior. — Southwestern Discomfort

    Win-win situation — The World shuts down these guys HARD, and they get to be the Blessed, “Persecuted for Righteousness’ Sake.” (And you KNOW that’s how they’ll spin it.)

    Only losers are going to be the kids (victimized), other Christians (discredited), and Jesus Christ Himself (discredited by assocation).

  74. Nicholas

    Typical pedophile. They think they are smarter than everybody else so they blithely share their lives, taunting their victims and readers with their freedom. — Dee

    Not just pedos. Remember “Icepick Boi” from Canada a couple months ago? Gay Porn Actor who looked like an inflatable sex doll videoed himself doing a particularly gruesome rape/necrophilia/dismemberment/cannibalism murder, posted the footage to YouTube, sent the pieces to various public addresses around Canada, and fled for Europe? (You really gotta work hard to get to that level of depravity.) You know where he finally got busted?

    In an Internet Cafe in Berlin, where he was monitoring media coverage of himself and posting “Can’t Catch Me!” publicity tweets to his fans. (After high-profile partying in Paris, sending fanservice posts & texts, and bugging out of France one jump ahead of La Surete.)

  75. “But when we are dealing with young children who are abused by adults (pederasty, child porn, etc.) the penalty for those guilty of the crime should be death.” Fidelity, pg 85.

    Here’s google books link: http://tinyurl.com/6wjv6kf

  76. Len
    I saw that comment. But, when it is one of his own people, well, it does not apply. Amazing.

  77. Numo
    Sometimes plea bargains help to convict a person quickly without going through extensive trials But… in this case and the one in Oregon, the justice system was played by some smart attorneys. They believed that these guys might confess to one or two more molestations. In both instances, these guys were real sickos and the extent of their perversion surprised everyone.

    Really miffs me off. A true Christian would have confessed ahead of time and taken the hits. Now he has a wife and the means to make more victims.

  78. Do any of us know anyone with deeply embedded paedophilic impulses who has actually totally changed on becoming a Christian? Are there any believable testimonies on this, any proper literature? I think I remember reading some kind of accountablity process a christian group had set up for sex offenders, which seemed extrememly sensible…anything else on the proper/wise handling of individuals in these circumstances?

  79. BeakerJ
    Many churches still buy the pedophile has repented and should be allowed back into normal life. I knew a pastor who told me that a man who abused family children and stranger children for 30 years and spent 18 months in the slammer was now deemed to be “safe.” This was 3 years ago. Such naiveté is dangerous.

    Christianity Today (I think) did an article a couple of years back about a church that was started for this who could not be in the presence of children. I think that is a great idea.

  80. These kinds of things happening in Idaho should come as no surprise. Idaho has long been a hotbed of extreme-right-wing-craziness in both secular and fundamentalist Christian circles. Some even advocate the violent overthrow of the U.S. Government by whatever means they deem necessary. Bless Providence that the FBI keeps a close watch on these folks.

    There’s a larger question which emerges here. To what degree should the civil authorities be allowed to become involved in the religious freedom guaranteed to all?

    I am of the opinion that Judge Stegner handled it well and showed admirable restraint in ruling that the issue of minor children will be looked at if and whenever they are produced, and that the Sitler-Travis union be allowed proceed as planned.

    And please, to all here, this IS NOT an endorsement of Wilson’s religious beliefs nor is it intended to make light of Travis and hundreds of other women who live under cultic and brutal religious regimes.

  81. my head shakes like most of you for all the same reasons – but one thing really stands out to me – is 22 really a “spinster” in our society? NO. In these circles, YES. I’ve lived in them, so I know.

    But it is sad, that a woman is bought and sold a lie that she’s an old maid at 22 and has to settle for a PEDOPHILE in order to feel fulfilled as a woman in this type of lifestyle.

    Sad.

  82. “The Kirk” (both specific and general) is really big on “protect and serve”, which is in reality the job description of “The Cops”. But “protect” usually means to protect the sheep from knowing what’s really going on. Why else, in many decades and churches, have I only heard ONE pedophile case discussed and dealt with out in the open, in church? There must have been SOME others, but I’ve been “protected”.
    On that one case, the church was equipped to better help and pray for the victims, because we knew who they were and what was happening. I even prayed for the sperm-donor perp (who wasn’t a church-goer) for several years (pray for your enemies). Alas, “The Cops” failed to protect and serve, in the end. These statements courtesy the 1989 NY Times article “Gunman Kills Four and Then Himself” are enlightening:
    “The accusation (molestation), investigated by state child protective workers, did not result in criminal charges against Mr. B____, the records on file at the Pierce County Clerk’s office in Tacoma show.
    Mr. B___, who was a civilian logistics supply official at nearby McChord Air Force Base, denied the allegations in the divorce and custody papers, calling them ”a wilfull and malevolent” charge.
    A restraining order was issued in February 1988 that barred Mr. B____ from contact with his daughters and from living within two miles of his former wife’s home.
    A psychological examination in September 1988 found that if Mr. B____ was ”seriously inclined to do her harm, he would already have done so,” the custody dispute records show.
    The murder-suicide in Washington State was one of three reported around the nation today.”
    Apologies for repeating this from the Tom White thread, but these are the only pedophile victims I’ve ever known and loved, THAT I KNOW OF.

  83. Muff

    I agree with you. The way the law is written at this point, he has little choice but to let the marriage proceed. If he had ruled differently, it would have been applealed and they would have been married. My beef is not with the justice system, per se (althought I think the plea bargain situation in the case of pedophiles needs to be revisited), merely the religious system that has spawned this commnity of Doug Wilson and shame on those in TGC who buy into this nonsense.

  84. Lindsey

    She felt like a  spinster at 22. That does tell us something of this strange group of people. I still believe that some people used her for their agenda. 

  85. Dave AA

    Is this situation well known? Have you ever told this story here? is this one that I should know? Do you want to write a post? You know me, full of questions…

  86. @ ScotT:

    “But she was young, had a college degree, albeit from an unaccredited crazy place, and her life was in front of her. This reinforces everything I said above: a) either she was coerced or b) the truth was hidden from her.”

    No. Not necessarily. The level of insularity and gullibility you sometimes encounter in these circles is ASTOUNDING. These are the folks who, in the face of irrefutable and undeniable fact, still say with a straight face that they don’t believe you about ______ (insert worldview “hot topic” of the hour). If Katie Travis is one of these people (and I’m not saying she is – though considering herself a “spinster” at 22 isn’t a good sign), then it may not matter to her if Sitler is a pedophile. She may not even believe he IS a pedophile, even if the judge and the entire legal system of Idaho say so, because he’s “repented.” What’s more, his “repentance” has been certified by Doug Wilson – whom she clearly reveres (since she went to his school, boarded with one of his elders AND asked said elder for help finding a husband) – so that’s probably a clincher. After that, the self-reinforcing logic is usually impenetrable.

  87. Dee,
    It wasa long time ago and just a one-day story nationally. I may have delved a little deeper on the Tom White thread. Really, in that story, no one much outside of the church believed the victims until it was too late.
    HOT OFF THE PRESSES: this true conversation just occurred while driving the 100 degree streets of Idaho.
    3 year old grandson: Saw saw police car. yea!
    Grandpa: Look, it says Protect Serve Lead!
    Daughter/Mommy: (In Jest) They should be letting husbands do that stuff!
    So there are some smart daughters around, even in Idaho.

  88. Dee,

    You are correct: I did not know that about you! Thanks for the work you have done in the past, and are doing now, on behalf of victims of pedophilia. This entire story is a sad one, and I’m hopeful that your post will help people see the tragedy and continuing consequences of such a sin. Thanks for kind words. Truth and grace are both needed. You definitely understand more of the truth in this matter than I. Thanks for enlightening me!

  89. Hester

    I knew a young woman who was dating a guy who was found to be a terrible pedophile, molesting over 15 known boys and probably many more. She refused to believe it, even when he confessed. She even blamed the boys for lying. She would visit him in jail and talk about marrying him when he got out. After a long time, she got over him. He got a really long sentence. She was about the age of Katie when this happened.

  90. HUG – all of that Rajneeshie talk reminded me that years ago in the 80s, my dad went to the big auction they had when dismantling everything from Rajneeshpurum (Antelope, Oregon). He brought home a big honkin’, I mean HUGE, orange Rajneeshie tent. My husband and I borrowed it on our 1st anniversary to take on a camping trip to Mt. Hood. We thought we heard bears around the tent all night – later out the wind was causing the zipper to bang against something. I guess my brain was going wild thinking about all the things that might have gone on in that tent in Rajneeshpurum. Yikes.

  91. If Katie Travis is one of these people (and I’m not saying she is – though considering herself a “spinster” at 22 isn’t a good sign), then it may not matter to her if Sitler is a pedophile. — Hester

    In an environment like that, her only status as a woman is the status of her husband. In order to be considered a Real Christian(TM), she must be married and breeding. She wants a MARRIAGE, and this serial pedophile is just the necessary equipment to achieve that. (Plus, in an X-Treme Purity environment, getting Married is the only way to legalize the sex.)

    She may not even believe he IS a pedophile, even if the judge and the entire legal system of Idaho say so, because he’s “repented.” — Hester

    Make that “the SECULAR HUMANIST judge and the entire SECULAR ANTICHRIST legal system of Idaho”.

    What’s more, his “repentance” has been certified by Doug Wilson – whom she clearly reveres (since she went to his school, boarded with one of his elders AND asked said elder for help finding a husband) – so that’s probably a clincher. After that, the self-reinforcing logic is usually impenetrable. — Hester

    The Dwarfs are for The Dwarfs, and Won’t Be Taken In.

  92. I knew a young woman who was dating a guy who was found to be a terrible pedophile, molesting over 15 known boys and probably many more. She refused to believe it, even when he confessed. She even blamed the boys for lying. She would visit him in jail and talk about marrying him when he got out. — Dee

    There’s a formal psych term for that, but I don’t remember it.

    I know it as “Harley Quinn Syndrome”.

  93. So much deception in a church that would condone and arrange a marriage like this!! A normal qualified pastor would have refused to marry this couple. A pedophile cannot just say ” I repent” It must be lived and proved for years (like 15) I personally believe a pedophile should not marry until the intended is beyond childbearing years and has no children available in the family to be alone with.
    I have heard of a couple of men who repented. One was guilty of incest with one child. He, if memory serves me,confessed, repented, turned himself in, and did 5 years. Now THAT is what repentance could look like.

  94. Dee wrote: “Many churches still buy the pedophile has repented and should be allowed back into normal life. I knew a pastor who told me that a man who abused family children and stranger children for 30 years and spent 18 months in the slammer was now deemed to be “safe.” This was 3 years ago. Such naiveté is dangerous.”

    I agree wholeheartedly. I feel some folks in the church, including those in leadership positions, may not know the “real world” we live in, or are they too optimistic? too naive?

    Jeremiah 17:9 “the heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?” The Word of God is forever true and I do not trust pedophiles for a moment.

    It seems Dee and I are in agreement on a number of things and I usually enjoy her posts and opinions.

  95. One more thing – a young woman is dumb to marry a convicted sexual abuser. The world, after all, does not yet run out of men without criminal records.

  96. I wonder if she would have gone through with the wedding if she read the transcripts of his confession and the many victim statements?

    And, if he is arrested again, she should serve a sentence, also. She may have been naive to be bamboozled into this marriage, but from the wedding day on, she has no excuse.

  97. “No. Not necessarily. The level of insularity and gullibility you sometimes encounter in these circles is ASTOUNDING. ”

    Yes. People who have not been involved or read up on these gourps have no idea how bad it is. A friend of mine was involved in helping 22-25 year old women escape from Scott Browns cult. These women had never worked, never been to college and NEVER visisted a gynacologist. One of them had a large tumor found on her first visit at age 23 that my friend scheduled for her. These young women had to stay hgome and serve their fathers until they are “courted” and married off.

    People do not believe this is happening in the 21st century.

  98. @numo
    agreed on plea bargaining in general, though with pedophiles – no way, no how!

    I don’t think you understand plea bargains. When you go to trial a prosecutor typically goes for all the possible charges. Because if they lose with just a few that loss makes it much harder to bring more later as they are usually interrelated and the “innocence” of some taint all.

    With a plea bargain they typically go for just enough charges to make the agreed penalty work. Then put the others “on the shelf”. These other charges are the hammer than can be used later if the defendant doesn’t obey the plea deal. Which usually requires them to not claim innocence later. So in a plea deal the guilty gets punished, taxpayers say a LOT of money, and usually in big cases or those with long term situations there are charges that can be brought out later if needed.

    Now the problem with plea deals and it’s the same with all court cases, not every judge, agreement, whatever is perfect and at time things don’t work out.

    A recent statistic is that 95% of all criminal cases are settled with plea deals. We taxpayers need to understand the ramifications of changing this.

    But as a final comment since as I understand it the plea in this situation was only about 1 count of abuse there are likely many more possible charges that can be brought out later if needed.

  99. @ Lynn @8:18 am:

    Sorry, but most plea deals end with the permanent disposition of all of the charges that are documented at the time of the plea deal. So that the plea deal will permanently end prosecution of all charges that the prosecutor could bring at that point in time, with an agreement by the defendant that the prosecutor could have brought those charges in court had there been a trial.

    The holding back of charges is a frequent prosecutorial strategy when a charge is going to trial. The outcome of a prior trial is not allowed into evidence in a trial, with some exceptions, such as when there is an enhanced penalty for a subsequent offense, and then normally only in the penalty phase of the trial, after guilt has been determined. The purpose of withholding some charges is in case the prosecutor loses the first trial, believes that there was a problem with the jury (!!), and still has good evidence on which to try the alleged perpetrator on other charges. Often, there is a plea bargain reached during trial, either before or after the verdict, and it will also usually cover all known incidents, even if not all were at issue in the trial.

  100. An Attorney
    I believe that is what occurred in that case and the Rojas case. In both instances, it is my understanding that prosecutors were alarmed after discovering the extent of their abuses since, prior to the plea, such extensive abuse was not even assumed.

    My perception, which may be in error, is that, in both cases, the accused was offered a plea on the condition that he submit to a psychosexual assessment and admit to other victims. In both cases, the outcome of the deal was a pedophile who now cannot be tried on what they admitted to doing.

    Question:In these circumstances, cannot a civil case be brought by the victims and their families? I say sue these buggers. Oh yeah, that’s right, Wilson would argue that is is not Scriptural to do so. He is so “biblical.”And he rules the “kirk.” (Scottish bard that he is).

  101. I lean toward agreement with Pastor Wade’s comments above regarding the ethics of officiating a marriage in which one party is a pedophile.

    On the face of it, I don’t think this is a reason a pastor MUST or ought to refuse to marry a couple who are determined to be married. It seems that the pastor would be in a better position to provide counsel and care to them before and after the marriage if he is willing to officiate the ceremony, and a couple in this circumstance is highly likely to need a great deal of counsel and pastoral care.

    I think what raises ethical questions about this particular situation is our tendency to suspect that the woman was not fully informed of the risk she was taking for herself and any children that may come from the marriage. We may or may not be correct in that suspicion. If the elders she trusted to guide her, including the one she lived with and the one who officiated her marriage ceremony attempted to encourage or coerce the marriage, “protected” her from information about recidivism rates for pedophiles, minimized the likelihood of her struggles in her marriage or the danger to her future children, or assured that based on their assessment the pedophile was “ok,” “repentant,” or unlikely to offend again, THEN they were in the wrong – and very much so.

    But if they helped her see the danger and encouraged her to think soberly about whether she was willing to marry this man in spite of it. Her pastors should have counseled her that despite his profession of faith, re-offense was statistically likely, that marriage cannot “cure” a pedophile and that he was likely to struggle with temptation to lust after children his entire life, even if he never re-offended, and that this would mean she will bear the full weight of protecting her children, should they have any, from their father, and that pedophiles are often very deceptive in order to get what they want – so she would never be able to trust his word as to whether he had inappropriate thoughts or behavior to their children. If her pastor did all that, and she was still determined to marry him, I do not see why he must refuse to marry them, though he certainly could do so.

  102. @EMSoliDeoGloria

    I’d agree with your comments if the pastor(s) involved had not also be involved in all the other aspects of the situation.

  103. @An Attorney

    Sorry, but most plea deals end with the permanent disposition of all of the charges that are documented at the time of the plea deal. So that the plea deal will permanently end prosecution of all charges that the prosecutor could bring at that point in time, with an agreement by the defendant that the prosecutor could have brought those charges in court had there been a trial.

    Not what I’ve seen around here. Mostly in political offices cases. (NC seems to have a run on these over the last 5 years or so.) They plead to 1 or 2 charges with the others set aside unless things don’t work out. Especially in Federal Grand jury situations. They seem to bring in evidence for many more charges than they ask for. Then they go after a plea with those few charges with the other held as the hammer.

    As to the holding back of charges in a trial, I think we said the same thing with you saying it better.

    And in cases where kids are involved plea deals keep the kids out of the court room getting grilled in ways that most kids should never have to go through.

  104. @ dee on Fri Jul 20, 2012 at 09:09 AM

    I am amazed at how often prosecutors mess this up. The deal should require full disclosure with some indication of additional penalty if the perp does not make a full disclosure and with some limit based on a pre-deal number of victims disclosure, most like as “no more than”. Then if the number is larger than the prosecutors think, there can be additional investigation and a new plea deal bargain made. In the instances cited here, the penalty is so small as to be totally unjust for the offenses involved and devalues the children involved. The District Attorneys in those cases should be retired at the next election.

  105. EMSDG

    I do wonder how much she was told-other than he repented.

    Why do you think Wilson did not tell his congregation that a serial rapist pedophile had lived within their midst until 8 months after his arrest?

    Nor inform Moscow?

    Why should the citizens of Moscow be enraged about that?

    I do not know what she was told or not told. I hope she and her family were told all those things you wrote. How well informed, generally speaking, are the recipients of patriarchal courtship marriages? My understanding is they can refuse the spouses their families choose, but as to how much information is given if the elders/families REALLY want a marriage?– who knows. I mean, the dads are in charge, right? I believe I read Sitler asked her to marry him on the 2nd or 3rd date? I do not know–sounds rushed to me. :-)

    It was lawful for them to marry, the judge decided. Fine. It was lawful but was it a wise thing? To use your sobering words….”she will bear the full weight of protecting her children, should they have any, from their father, and that pedophiles are often very deceptive in order to get what they want – so she would never be able to trust his word as to whether he had inappropriate thoughts or behavior to their children.”

    I cannot imagine coming to grips with that and marrying anyway. Cannot trust your husbands words. But that is their choice-theirs and their parents. Why would a professing Christian FV “it’s all about the children they are quivers and blessings” and blah blah pastor agree to this, as her elder, her protector, her spiritual guide…why would he wish to tie these burdens to her? Is this looking out for her best interests? Is that really loving her? Loving their future children and providing the best possible scenario for their entry into the world? If they were determined still to get married…they could have found someone to marry them.

    But this Wilson–who is promoted by TGC and especially Piper…is someone we should note in a positive way because they do?? Do these men ever look at character–or is that always gossip to do so.

    But if Sitler is married, then all looks good for Christ church.

  106. The District Attorneys in those cases should be retired at the next election.

    And be replaced by who?

    Moscow ID is a basically a small college town. Population of what? 12K excluding students? Just how many Clarence Darrows do you think there are in this small town/county who also want the “fantastic job” of prosecuting attorney?

    Looks like this guy might have mad a non trivial mistake. But we don’t know all the facts behind what happened and even if so if we take the Red Queen’s approach of “Off with their heads” then how many decent people will then want the job.

    Careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

  107. One more thing – a young woman is dumb to marry a convicted sexual abuser. The world, after all, does not yet run out of men without criminal records. — Beloved

    But women really go for Users & Abusers. Nothing triggers the “OOOOO MY SOULMATE!!!!! HE’S SO (gasp) EXCITING!!!!!” reaction like a User & Abuser.

  108. It irks me as a Scottish person that he has misappropriated the word ‘kirk’. It reminds me of an American wedding video I saw online where the strongly complementarian father of the bride ‘knighted’ his new son-in-law and charged him with leading his new bride, claiming that he was doing so because of his ‘Scottish warrior’ heritage or something. I just think that these patriarchal types like to justify their oppression by referencing the nostalgic, romanticised tradition of a national history they are barely connected to anymore. You do NOT have a kirk, Douglas Wilson, you have a church, and a church that would almost certainly fail here in Scotland because for the most part, we are vastly more liberal in our religion than you! In fact, the ancient celtic church was more liberal than Wilson’s, having as it did abesses who worked on equal terms with the abbotts.

  109. Sophie – you can blame Mel Gibson and his movie “Braveheart” for a lot of this b.s. here in the States.

  110. These kinds of things happening in Idaho should come as no surprise. Idaho has long been a hotbed of extreme-right-wing-craziness in both secular and fundamentalist Christian circles. Some even advocate the violent overthrow of the U.S. Government by whatever means they deem necessary. — Muff Potter

    That’s because Idaho and Montana are pretty much uninhabited. Settlements are few and far between. If you want to get away from people (or set up your Utopia away from the Other), that’s the place to go. And if things get too hot for you, the Canadian border isn’t that far away.

    The reason Unabomber was able to escape detection for so long up in rural Montana was because except for the bombs, he was just another Crazy Hermit.

    P.S. To clarify the situation with a little high-impact imagery, I suggest we start referring to the 22-year-old woman in this situation as “Ofsteve” or “Ofsitler” instead of “Katie”.

  111. I cannot help but think that this guy Sitler is protege of Wilson’s. He sounds highly educated with a chemistry major-someone Wilson would be sure to mentor. I am wondering if the outcome would have been different if he wasn’t one of Wilson’s darlings?

    This stuff makes me so mad. These people trumpet “Biblical law”, then turn morality on its head when there is evil in their midst. Disgusting.

  112. Just to be clear I think it’s nice that so many Americans are proud of their ancestry, whether that ancestry is Scottish, Dutch, Hispanic, whatever. But I just don’t like the misogyny these patriarchs seem to want to justify by association with our history.

  113. Jesus said: “If anyone causes one of these little ones – those who believe in me – to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.” – Matthew 18:6. These words appear in all three of the synoptic gospels, so I think there’s little doubt that Jesus said it. The Greek word that gets translated “cause to stumble there” skandalise is the word we get scandal from. It appears it could also be translated “If anyone offends against…” or “If anyone harms….”

    So, there’s Jesus, who everyone likes to imagine as a nice fluffy hug bunny, saying it would be better to kill someone than to let them harm a child. I take that to mean the Lord takes hurting children deadly serious, and I wouldn’t want to be any of these individuals on judgement day if this couple produces children and Stiles molests them.

  114. Melissa

    You make a point that many pastors and elders will need to consider. Many children have been harmed by callous idealogues who pretend they are gospel loving theologians.

  115. Dee, I completely agree with what you wrote. As a counselor, psychology instructor, and mother of four, there is a part of me that is astounded and sickened. At the same time, it’s not that difficult to understand. Doug Wilson believes that men are to sexually conquer and colonize. He believes that egalitarian sex promotes rape fantasies and that rape is a consequence of egalitarian sin. With such a low, degrading, demoralizing view of women, it’s not a big stretch to see how he could arrange and sign off on this marriage. His followers (Steven and Katie’s families and the Iversons et al.) are naturally going to go along, at the great expense of their daughter and possible future grandchildren.

    Having spent many years in social work and mental health, I have seen first-hand how sexual abuse ravages families. The recidivism rate is so high that a pedophile can never, ever, ever be trusted with a child or teen again – not even for a moment. As documents about Sitler reveal, he even molested a toddler in the nursery with her parents across the hall. As one commenter pointed out, pedophiles can never be trusted to tell the truth about their desires and impulses either. It is important to remember that pedophiles work VERY hard and spend MORE time grooming and seducing their social environments than they do their own victims. They are experts at crafting the perfect image to those around them. At one point, the Megan’s Law website described common profiles of sex offenders – one that I remember which stands out in my mind had the following list of characteristics – age 42, married with children, religious, attends church, active in community. Pedophiles seem to say and do all the right things and many people, upon hearing that the offender has been arrested, will say “He was the LAST person I’d think of….”

    As Dee pointed out, wives and mothers are notorious for looking the other way while their children are sexually exploited, molested, and raped. I’m sure Katie is a nice young lady, but I believe she also has been exploited. If she goes on to have children with Sitler, she may take every last precaution required to keep her children safe. I hope and pray that is the case, but there are cult(ural), psychological, and practical reasons that would make that nearly impossible. From a practical standpoint only, she would never be able to take her eyes off her children, even as they sleep or play outside or are just hanging out in the family room, if there is even a remote chance that their father could be alone with them for one moment. The children will require constant supervision and monitoring, as well as her husband. Imagine getting your children to bed for the night and sitting down to watch a movie with your pedophile husband. You’ve just gotten comfortable after a long day of caring for and constantly monitoring your children (and husband). He needs to go to the bathroom. Does she follow him to the bathroom to be sure he doesn’t make a detour to one of the children’s rooms? And how will she sleep? Unless she sleeps WITH her children until they’re grown and out of the home, Sitler would have innumerable opportunities over the years to dismantle the surveillance equipment and molest her children.

    Doug Wilson may be the head dude at his “kirk”. He may be lifted up by John “Wives should endure abuse for a season” Piper. He may think (like the good Calvinista he is) that HE is right and we’re all peons who dare to disagree. But I believe in my deepest core that he will be held accountable for this one day.

  116. Dee – I am just gobsmacked at the number of people – including clergy – who think that child molesters just need a big hug and to be fogiven. I worked in a maximum security prison for 10 years. I know that I know that I know that child molesters almost always reoffend. If God can forgive them and heal them of their besetting sin in heaven, then yay! He is good. But, that doesn’t mean that we should ever allow them anywhere near another child again while they’re still here on earth. There is too much at stake.

  117. “It is important to remember that pedophiles work VERY hard and spend MORE time grooming and seducing their social environments than they do their own victims.”

    Wow. Good insight, Wendy. If the recidivism rate is so high, I think the court ought to have made chemical castration a condition of the marriage.

    I fee for this woman because at age 22, she asked for help choosing a husband. I wonder if she has ever been encouraged to seek an identity for herself outside of her identity in relation to a man. Will she have a strong enough sense of herself to stand up to this man if he threatens the kids?

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  119. I’m sure Katie is a nice young lady, but I believe she also has been exploited. If she goes on to have children with Sitler, she may take every last precaution required to keep her children safe. — Wendy

    Katie? Do you mean OfSilter?

    It irks me as a Scottish person that he has misappropriated the word ‘kirk’. It reminds me of an American wedding video I saw online where the strongly complementarian father of the bride ‘knighted’ his new son-in-law and charged him with leading his new bride, claiming that he was doing so because of his ‘Scottish warrior’ heritage or something. — Sophie

    Did the father or the groom have half their face painted with woad?

    (Braveheart as 67th book of the Bible?)

    Doug Wilson may be the head dude at his “kirk”. He may be lifted up by John “Wives should endure abuse for a season” Piper. He may think (like the good Calvinista he is) that HE is right and we’re all peons who dare to disagree. — Wendy

    Remember that GOD Hath Predestined Him as such. “DO YOU DOUBT THE SOVERIGNITY OF GAWD?”

    And Hath Predestined His Kirk as such. “DO YOU DARE REBEL AGAINST THE WILL OF GAWD?”

    Moscow, ID, isn’t the next Rajneeshpuram. It’s the next Jonestown.

  120. HUG,

    You crack me up!

    I’ve been reading the posts by Doug Wilson, his wife, and his daughters pertaining to the Jared Wilson post and subsequent dust-up. Wow! If you weren’t sure they were a cult, their posts leave no room to believe otherwise. They are some weird, scary, freaky people.

  121. Melissa: Molesters and pedophiles often don’t think they’ve done anything wrong. I can’t see Sitler’s attitude going away quickly, what with his track record. What worries me is what Katie might or might not do to protect future kids. It’s possible he might charm her into believing he’s perfectly safe around children and can be left alone with them. If he can deceive his wife and force his own offspring victims not to tell, he could get away with it for YEARS. Plus if anyone does find out, we know that Doug will defend Sitler and probably blame Katie for ‘not fulfilling her wifely duties.’

    I worry for this marriage, even though the judge gave the green light. I’m just not comfortable with it.

  122. Anne

     The judge had little legal right to stop the marriage. He can intervene once babies are involved. but, the legal system has been known to overlook the first offense since he “paid for his crime.”

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  125. Just to keep things in perspective, there are worse cults than Doug’s — Mara

    Oh, yeah. God-Hates-Fags Phelps and his True Believers.