Driscoll, Acts 29 Deny Haiti Relief Because of a Female Pastor

"Do not waste time bothering whether you "love" your neighbor; act as if you did. As soon as we do this we find one of the great secrets. When you are behaving as if you loved someone you will presently come to love him."

C.S. Lewis

Yvonne and Joel Trimble

Haiti for Christ (link)

One of our readers made the following comment that, in my estimation sums up Mark Driscoll.

“MD sounds so cool with his tattoos, t-shirts, and beer but he is more legalistic than your grandma who thinks beer is of the devil.”
(Robin)

Yvonne Melchionne Trimble, from the mission group Haiti For Christ wrote TWW to share a personal experience with Mark Driscoll.  In my estimation, her startling experience sums up the problem with Driscoll and radical complementarians who, in this instance, prove that “secondary theology trumps love”.

Here is Yvonne's testimony:

"My husband and I are missionary evangelists and have lived in Haiti since 1975. Two of our four children and one of our nine grandchildren were born there. We host Haiti’s most popular TV show that features the beauty of Haiti with a gospel message. Currently we are aired in 13 US Haitian markets and over 100 TV stations in Haiti. We do not pay for airtime as our content is in such demand.

Over 2 million Haitians, all age groups and economic strata, view our show http://www.youtube.com/telelouange  (Editor's note: Watch this video-really well done)!

We came in contact with Mark Driscoll shortly after the quake I had posted a comment on an Act 29 blog. Mark Driscoll via Acts 29 gave for the one year anniversary which we organized and hosted. 100K Haitians answered our call to worship in front of the ruined Palais Nationale. Driscoll arrived in a private plane, I picked him up and he wanted to leave when the crowd was peaking. I sent a Haitian driver to take him back to the airport as I was not leaving the outpouring of God’s Spirit.

Not long after that Driscoll flew us to Orlando he wanted us to head up their Acts 29 mission work in Haiti since they had no experienced missionaries and we are experienced soul winners. Right before we were “signed on” to their 400 supporting churches, something we really could use. I said, “Wait I preach. I planted an English worship service in my living room for missionaries and business people.” That brought a icy response from Grudem, Mark’s right hand man, and it was the last we heard from them.

Driscoll stated dramatically at the Orlando event that “cessationism is heretical”. My understanding of MD’s brash, offensive, shock jock approach to the gospel is this. Mark thinks he is a prophet! And he thinks that is how prophets speak, abrupt, shocking statements of his interpretation of the scripture. Mark wants so badly to promote Piper’s theology that “cessationism is heretical” which I do believe; that he will go to any unscriptural extent to make an impression be it good or bad. Poor Mark he thinks he is God’s anointed one when all that is required of him is to walk humbly and love justice.”

Yvonne sent TWW another comment.

“They needed us in Haiti but when they realized we were egalitarian they dropped us like a hot potato! We were crushed: innocent and in need of the fellowship and financial support. I do believe God made the separation for our sakes as well as His. Christ has always been our source and we will not compromise on an issue to gain support no matter how badly we need it. At the time I said, “I may never preach again; but if He tells me to speak I must be available to obey.” There is no higher call than to obey the voice of my God. I will not let Mark Driscoll or Acts 29 stop me. Worthy is the Lamb.”

At the beginning of this post, I made a comment about theology trumping love.  Several months ago, Wade Burleson sent Deb and me an address which he delivered in 2009 at the Midwest Region New Baptist Covenant Meeting in Norman, Oklahoma.  It was titled: A PERSONAL CONFESSION – A PUBLIC CHALLENGE
 By Our Love Shall All People Know We Are His Disciples.

The full text of his comments can be found here.  I believe someone should drag Driscoll and the rest of the Calvinistas into a room and make them listen to this message.  Although Wade was addressing Baptists, I want to encourage you to replace the name "Baptist" with “Driscoll” or “Calvinsta” as you read it.  Oh, I almost forgot!  Wade Burleson is Reformed.  Are you shocked to discover that there are actually Calvinists (not to be confused with Calvinistas – there is a HUGE difference!) who do not embrace complementarianism?

Here are a few excerpts from Wade Burleson's address:

"I now believe deep in my heart that Jesus is more concerned with how we Baptists treat each other than He is with what we Baptists teach each other. The people loved by Christ – particularly those who differ with me – are to be far more precious to me than any finer point of theology believed by me. Jesus did not tell me that it would be by my truth that all people would know that I am one of His followers, but by my love. The only description ever given of our Lord was that He was a person “full of grace and truth.” Word order is important in Scripture. Grace should not just precede truth – it should permeate it. Or, as our host Jimmy Allen so brilliantly puts it: “Our love should reach beyond our theology.”

"A few years ago, Pastor Julie Pennington-Russell held the hand of her 7-year-old son Taylor as she walked through the picket lines that had formed outside Calvary Baptist Church, Waco, Texas. The picketers, Baptists from surrounding churches, were there protesting Julie’s call to become the pastor of Calvary. As she walked through the picket line, her little boy squeezed her hand, pulled his mother down where she could hear, and then asked, “Mommy, who is Jezebel and why are they calling you that?”

"I have not changed what I believe, nor have I moved away from a conservative view of the infallible sacred text, but what has changed is the need to point out that people who disagree with me in interpretations of the Bible are less Christian, less “spiritual,” less loved by God than I. This is simply not true. The love of God for His people never changes or wanes, regardless of our actual or imagined theological unfaithfulness. Or perhaps I should state it more precisely: God’s love for His people never wanes or abates, regardless of my fellow Baptists’ actual or imagined theological unfaithfulness. Jesus warned us that we tend to focus on the speck in our brother’s eye while ignoring the plank in our own."

Later in the message, Wade makes the following remark:

"You may not like the fact that women are now being called by God to preach, or called by God to do missions, or called by God to teach. You may even consider it a violation of your principles for a woman to teach a man, or preach Christ to a man, or baptize a man, or lead a man, but there is one thing that you and I cannot – we must not – forget: You and I are called to love each and every sister in Christ who feels called to ministry. We are called to affirm the dignity of every Christian woman called to minister. We are commanded to treat them with respect and civility. We are also called to love, respect, and affirm the autonomy of local Baptist congregations and denominations that utilize these gifted women in ministry as they see fit. To censor or censure them, reject them, abuse them, or condemn their character is a sin of the first order."

Wade Burleson:  "From your lips to the ears of legalists of every stripe."  Well stated!

 

Protest Driscoll: Donate to Haiti for Christ

Oh, if any of you have a dime to spare, please think about Haiti for Christ. Just think of it this way. You will support God’s work and make a statement about Mark Driscoll at the same time!  Link

Poppycock is an expression, which means “nonsense,” “twaddle,” or “codswallop”, among other definitions.  For some reason, this term came to Deb's mind as she was  thinking about Driscoll while writing the previous post.  I’ll leave you to draw your own conclusions.

Two years ago, a rather engaging entertainer made an appearance on America’s Got Talent. His name is “Prince Poppycock”.  We dedicate this to Mark Driscoll, who is well-represented by this entertainer as he sings the final words “Nothing really matters but me.”

 

Nothing Really Matters But Me! (Bohemian Rhapsody)

 


 

New blog for Survivors of Mars Hill

marshillrefuge.blogspot.com

"It is still in the works, but if you would like to share your story as a “survivor” or family member of a Mars Hill “captive”, please submit your story for posting."

TWW is adding this website to our links page.

 

Lydia's Corner:    Isaiah 12:1-14:32     2 Corinthians 13:1-14      Psalm 57:1-11      Proverbs 23:9-11

Comments

Driscoll, Acts 29 Deny Haiti Relief Because of a Female Pastor — 68 Comments

  1. “MD sounds so cool with his tattoos, t-shirts, and beer but he is more legalistic than your grandma who thinks beer is of the devil.” (I can’t find who but will give proper recognition if someone can help me).
    Robin said that on yesterday’s post. It’s right near the top.

  2. Pingback: et cetera 6 | SallieBorrink.com

  3. “Driscoll stated dramatically at the Orlando event that “cessationism is heretical”. My understanding of MD’s brash, offensive, shock jock approach to the gospel is this.”

    I have a question about being heretical. I thought heretics were those who denied the historic truths of the Christian faith namely messing with the Trinity and how one is Justified. Maybe I am wrong but is cessationism messing with the trinity?

  4. Heresy (from Greek αἵρεσις, which originally meant “choice”) is an accusation levied against members of another group which has beliefs which conflict with those of the accusers. It is almost exclusively used to discuss violations of religious or traditional laws or codes, although it is used by some political extremists to refer to their opponents. It carries the connotation of behaviors or beliefs likely to undermine accepted morality and cause tangible evils, damnation, or other punishment from a god or gods. In some religions, it also implies that the heretic is in alliance with the religion’s symbol of evil, such as Satan or chaos Wikipedia definition

  5. Dee said:
    “That brought a icy response from Grudem, Mark’s right hand man, and it was the last we heard from them.”

    Just for clarification, that would be Elliot Grudem , Wayne Grudem’s son.

    Elliot pastored a Presbyterian church in Raleigh, NC (which belongs to the Acts 29 Network) prior to moving to Seattle to work with Driscoll’s ministry. Yes, it’s a small world after all…

  6. Well, keep these around for future reference then.

    http://blog.marshill.com/2011/10/18/help-us-give-a-ton-of-food%e2%80%94literally%e2%80%94to-the-salvation-army-this-sunday/

    http://pastormark.tv/2011/10/18/for-i-was-hungry-and-you-fed-me

    Since the Salvation Army has been accepting women as pastors pretty much from the beginning Mars Hill and Mark Driscoll have, as of October 18, 2011, thrown their weight into giving eleven tons of food to help a church (yep, church) that ordains women. If an relief organization gets a cold shoulder from Mark Driscoll for having a woman preacher it will have to be because he doesn’t support the cause now and not because he doesn’t want to put his weight behind an organization or church that ordains women.

  7. By the by, yes, for Lutherans and high church folk I’ve know there are arguments that the Sallie isn’t really a church because they don’t baptise and don’t have eucharist or other sacraments. I trust you’ll understand that wasn’t what I was getting at. 🙂

  8. WTH,

    I think I heard about that food drive. BTW, the first link doesn’t work, but the second one does.

  9. Robin

    There are lots of people throwing around the heresy word today. The king of this implication is Kan Ham, who regularly implies that those who disagree with him (whoops-YEC) are denying the doctrine of the atonement.

  10. Dee,

    The protesters outside Calvary that morning were not from the local area, nor even from Texas for the most part, but from other states! And the child was a daughter, not a son. But the balance of the story is true.

    BTW, at about the same time, another Baptist church in Waco called a woman to be pastor, and she still serves. Neither church was tossed from the association (and there is no such effort recorded to my knowledge) and neither was drummed out of the Baptist General Convention of Texas, to which most SBC churches belong, as well as CBF churches. Alliance of Baptists churches generally do not belong to the BGCT, unless also aligned with the SBC or CBF. (I know, a church dually aligned with the AoB and SBC sounds strange, but it does occur!).

    BTW, the great “Waco” tragedy, the Branch Davidians event, did not occur in Waco, but miles outside city limits in the countryside. Kind of like something in Cary being attributed to being in Chapel Hill, because the reporters all rented hotel rooms in Chapel Hill as the nearest place with a nice hotel, and filed the stories from there. And kind of like treating everything that goes on in South Carolina as being in Carolina and therefore, applicable to you all in Chapel Hill!!!

  11. Of course, there’s great irony in Mark calling out heretical belief, on an issue that has nothing to do with core Christian belief. The irony is that he is now cozying up to TD Jakes, of the word-faith, “name it and claim it” movement, who denies the trinity. It seems that Mark has a tough time identifying what the core beliefs of the faith are.

  12. That food drive was probably the only really cool thing I saw them do while I was there. My least favorite was when they did a cash drive to fund the FOUR churches the 5 (actually 3) Elders decided to plant…all on January 15th. They planned the plants and then sent out letters and messages in November and December pressuring the members to give something like 6.1 Million to fund these plants by the end of the fiscal year (my figure could be off…but it was in the millions for sure).
    During the holidays, shouldn’t we be giving our cash to the poor, the hungry, families who are struggling?

  13. WTH
    I am glad that Mars HIll did that. But I still protest the treatment of Haiti for Christ. Driscoll lurches from issue to issue, like a bill in a china shop and he is doing an equal amount of damage. I doubt he even thinks of the Salvation Army as a real church. Besides, S. Army has major street cred, something that Driscoll seeks. So he can abuse a group outside the uS and play the game inside. I am not impressed.

  14. Alan
    I did not know about Driscoll +Jakes. I need to check it out. Driscoll defines the core beliefs to be whatever he feels they are. Driscoll is his own judge.

  15. Free
    Driscoll probably takes the same path that Ed YoungJr. took. He said Fellowship Church was a “mission” and so they could give lots of money to missions by giving to Fellowship.

  16. Dee,

    Isn’t that what Sovereign Grace Ministries has been doing? Planting churches (often in affluent areas) is their idea of missions. Admittedly, they finally branched out and started planting a few churches abroad.

  17. Deb
    I am not so sure that planting churches in large cities abroad that already have evangelical presence is “missionary.” I wonder how quick the “observations” of sin begins? Remember our friend in England who was thrown out of an SGM church? Abuse translates to more abuse.

  18. Deb
    Let me eapand. The African church and Asian church are sending missionaries to America. Does the word missionary only mean “a different country?”

  19. Robin: “MD sounds so cool with his tattoos, t-shirts, and beer but he is more legalistic than your grandma who thinks beer is of the devil.”

    Dee: “Driscoll defines the core beliefs to be whatever he feels they are. Driscoll is his own judge.”

    Driscoll, as has been said here many times, projects. He projects what he wants onto others and onto the very nature of God.

    Psalm 50:21 “These things you have done and I kept silence;
    You thought that I was just like you;
    I will reprove you and state the case in order before your eyes.”

    This is a danger for ALL of us. It is something we need to be aware of.

    Driscoll has no clue that he does this. If it feels right in his own heart then it MUST be right. If is feels right to give himself and the men of his church freedom upon freedom in the area of tattoos and beer and all manner of manly men stuff, then is must be right. If it feels right to restrict women to ridiculous levels, even to the point of screening their emails and cutting them off from their mothers (a crime against motherhood, womanhood, and humanity in general though he and his beer/tattoo liberated dude followers are blind to this FACT) then it must be right.
    If it feels right to deny Haiti support because the perfect vehicle of support happens to have a woman in a co-authority position with her husband, then it MUST be right. And God MUST agree with him.

    He thinks that God is just like him.

  20. Driscoll is really bringing out some non-Christian, naughty, hateful thoughts in me at the moment.

    Is it bad enough he publishes a book saying that sexual practices are permissable within marriage, that get called “sodomy” in other parts of culture?

    But then – he slags off the UK – my home country. Lord knows, I know the UK isn’t perfect and is in desperate need of revival – but there are many, many honest, hard working decent pastors who do not have the luxury of book royalities, and publicists to promote their ministries.

    And THEN we find this – that he backed out of a hard working ministry in Haiti with REAL need, just because a woman was involved in it’s leadership. And what? The money goes back on his “marriage counselling” tour of the USA?

    Am struggling here to think positive thoughts!!! :-z

  21. Dan
    Think of it this way. At least there are some Christians who are not pleased with Driscoll, proving that a remnant always remains.

  22. Mara

    At least he has to put up with “blogger” going after him. He ignores them but they are still there and may influence others to think twice about his ministry. Too bad CJ and the rest of the gang didn’t do the same.

  23. Amanda

    That Elephant Room thing is most confusing. Perry Noble and Steven Furtick were a part of it and I find them very, very strange-weird, etc.

  24. Dee – so right as always!

    Love that he must be called to account by people like you who run influential blogs. He can’t argue with that!

    🙂

  25. Dee and Deb –

    That is exactly what SGM was doing for years. What happens is not new believers but preaching of the PDI/SGM doctrine and congregations grow with transplantees. I’d love to see the numbers of new believers vs. tranaplants in Driscolls serfdom. :). Maybe CJ had feelings too – hmmm – sounds very pop-70’s culturish.

  26. Mara –

    Good point about projection. I have realized that in my own life at times. I came to realize that we put God in a place where He must think and behave as I would – surely! We bring God to a human level. I then remember that He says he is in not like man. Another thing that seems to happen is that the Bible becomes God. As if it contains the entirety of what God is like or what He would do or how He thinks. Jesus is the clearest picture of God. But I don’t think there as an end to the knowing of what God is. One of the problems I (and others) sometimes have is that we make God small and limited, instead of vast and incomprehensible!

  27. Driscoll, Acts 29 Deny Haiti Relief Because of a Female Pastor

    Purity of Ideology trumps Reality.

    Comrade Pol Pot would be proud.

  28. Theology matters. Pure Calvinism is wrong and hurtful to the Body of Christ. Although, most mega-church attendees don’t care or are told not to study these things because it will just confuse them.

  29. Mark
    Theology does matter. Here is what concern me. Theology rarely stays in the theoretical realm. It enters the practical. And that is when the fireworks start. We can all meet at a pub and argue over a minor point. But, the guy who sticks to his guns in a minor matter often becomes the Calvinista who beats everyone over the head with his obviously “correct” interpretation. If he is correct in that matter, he believes, 100%,that he is correct about everything else and becomes a despot. On Monday, we will see how the Driscoll Calvinista type rules on the inside with a testimony of one family who “walked into it.”

  30. Theology matters, but James 1:27 says “Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.” I like to think of religion as “theology with legs.” God took the Israelites to task for ignoring human suffering as well as for the “bigger” sin of idolatry. Once again, the answer seems to be both/and, not either/or.

  31. “That is exactly what SGM was doing for years. What happens is not new believers but preaching of the PDI/SGM doctrine and congregations grow with transplantees. I’d love to see the numbers of new believers vs. tranaplants in Driscolls serfdom. .”

    Bridget, According to Driscoll, hardly anyone one went to church in Seattle before him. The way he talks you would think he planted a church a Abu Dhabi.

  32. As always Dee, you have a good and timely post. Timely on account of its questioning the issue of gender roles in evangelical Christianity, and good that you’re providing some push back to the radical elements around Christendom who want to make sure that women get no higher than the kitchen stove. It has never been addressed quite like it has over say the last 20 yrs. or so.

    I would argue that the whole issue of egalitarianism vs. gender based hierarchy is rooted in one’s view of Scripture. Not necessarily a high view stacked against an alleged “low view” (planar), but rather one that depends largely upon a three-dimensional angular view.

    If we use a rigid and deterministic 2D view of St. Paul’s letter to his protégé Timothy, then Paul indeed becomes the gentile Moses and Yahweh continues to thunder from atop Sinai through him. But on the other hand if we use a 3D angular displacement (vector) approach to Scripture, we see that Paul is only pointing to the good news of the empty tomb and the women who delivered it to the world when the men hid out in fear for their own skins.

    Mr. Driscoll has said that he’ll gladly argue “Biblically” with his opponents on anything. So long as it’s a cage fight where he can rely on circular reasoning and special pleading to beat his opponent down, he’ll be game. If it’s moderated and he has to go up against someone like Greg Boyd or Chris Hedges, he’ll squeal like any schoolyard bully who gets his clock cleaned.

  33. Excellent comment, Muff!

    No higher than the kitchen stove. Gotta remember that one!

    Driscoll is definitely a bully.

  34. To be honest in view what an elder is SUPPOSE to do in a congregation it is by those tasks that merit them to be male. They are to be involved in formative training and development men to be Christ-like in their leadership. Driscoll and those like this Grudem or whoever who promote this progressive dispensationalism Calvinism needs to go back and prooftext passages on what a leader should BE like. I remember reading awhile back on those who support just war theologians would use Scripture to support their defense, the interesting thing about those who did not support it used Christ and the apostles in their defense. It was an interesting article to say the least. In thinking about that article I concluded “just defense” is valid and leaders willing to lay down their lives for their sheep is the high calling.

  35. Mr. Driscoll has said that he’ll gladly argue “Biblically” with his opponents on anything. — Muff

    “Biblically (TM)” as in “IT IS WRITTEN! IT IS WRITTEN! AL’LAH’U AKBAR! AL’LAH’U AKBAR! AL’LAH’U AKBAR!”?

  36. Hi Dee,

    Thanks for your comment on my old site. I have launched my new site and things are mostly unpacked now. 🙂

    Please feel free to stop by!

  37. I agree numo. God is great. The Almighty is bigger than 15 billion years of light travel, and smaller than the particles the folks at CERN mess around with. Quite a paradox huh?

  38. Yes it is, Muff!

    I’m equally certain that people all around the world – of many differing faiths, or of none at all – have pondered and will continue to ponder these very things.

  39. God is spirit and can assume material form. Therefore, He is co-extensive with the universe and occupies all its interstices.

  40. Hmm, so I’m not the only person who thinks the only reason Driscoll said “nobody make a final judgment” was to make sure he gets the shot at shredding Jakes for modalism?

  41. WTH

    Nope, you are not alone on that one. He says he just plans to be there to moderate the conversation and make sure no one gets backed into a corner and my question is this:

    Is MD the best man for that job? If given a lineup of pastors, he would be the last person I would choose, as he is infamous for “backing people into a corner”.

  42. Thx, Numo. May brain may be being affected by a current bug! – sounds like a reasonable excuse to me anyway!

  43. Dee,

    A pastor whose preaching I listened to for a couple of years once said that the answer to the question “Where is God” is that even the densest material we know consists of atoms, and within every atom, there is a space between the nucleus and the electrons. In fact, there is more unoccupied space (or intermittently occupied space, kind of like the space in our solar system!) than occupied space, actually millions of times more space is unoccupied. Therefore, God could exist in each and everyone of us, in the unoccupied space in our atoms!

    Now I do not think or believe that God needs unoccupied space in which to exist, since as spirit, he can exist in otherwise occupied space. But it does give an alternative to the idea that God is out THERE somewhere (“watching us from a distance” — what a heresy) but is in HERE and in EVERYWHERE.

  44. Dee, let me give a brief account to let you know what I was refering to. Driscoll now has a new BFF 🙂 in James MacDonald, from Harvest Bible Chapel in Illinois. These two fully endorse each other and appear at each other’s “church”, etc. Tomorrow, James Mac will host a huge event called “elephant room 2.” The first elephant room was last year. This is an event where JM brings in high profile, celebrity “pastors” and they sit around and congratulate themselves on being masters of the universe. Oops, sorry, couldn’t help myself there. I meant to say, they sit around and discuss various issues related to church, culture, etc. For $99 (I believe that’s the cost) you too can have the privilege of going to various locations around the country to watch this wonderful event! LOL. Anyway, the first elephant room included such noble theologians as Perry Noble and Steven Furtick (I assume you know who those two guys are. If you don’t, think Driscoll, only worse. I believe they are “pastors” in North Carolina). Last fall, JM announced that at Elephant Room 2, one of the featured speakers would be noted heretic TD Jakes. Yes, I call him a heretic because he denies the Trinity. Jakes affirms the heresy of the early centuries called Modalism. Now, this caused an issue for JM because he had previously stated that the purpose of the elephant room was to bring “brothers” together to discuss various issues related to the church. since Driscoll appeared at the first elephant room, and will appear again tomorrow (with Jakes) he felt compelled to write a blog post about Jakes. I don’t have time right now to link to it (you can find it easily), but in that post Driscoll failed to call out Jakes for his heretical views and totally danced around the issue. To sum, Driscoll fails to call out obvious heresy, but that calls out people as being heretics for issues that are not even central to the faith.

  45. This Elephant whatever & their new “guest” (Mr. Jakes) — contrived sparks — trying to make ’em fly on purpose for entertainment value. Just like so-called (not quite) reality television.

  46. Pingback: Wednesday Link List « Thinking Out Loud UNITED STATES

  47. There is GREAT irony in Driscoll denying funding to this couple because the wife preaches. Yesterday, at the “elephant room 2” Driscoll cozied up to TD Jakes, and treated him with the utmost of velvet gloves. Never once would Driscoll broach the topic of Jakes having a woman pastor on his staff, nor of the topic of Jakes being the “mentor” to prosperity “theologian” Paula White. Simply amazing.

  48. Alan
    very little about Driscoll makes sense. I believe he is a deeply troubled man and that there will be serious issues with him in the future.

  49. Jakes is a Oneness Pentecostal, to the best of my understanding. If you look into the history of Pentecostalism (in both black and white churches), “oneness” comes into the picture pretty early on.

    while I disagree with “oneness” theology, I don’t think that’s Jakes’ primary problem. But that’s a discussion for another time, and another post (probably elsewhere).

  50. Pingback: Linkathon 1/25, part 3 | Phoenix Preacher UNITED STATES

  51. Pingback: Linkathon 1/25, part 2 « BrianD blog

  52. If Jakes has a woman pastor, why is Driscoll snuggling up to him? This is an honest question – I don’t know who Jakes is and what he preaches, so what does his doctrine have in common with Driscoll’s?

  53. Anne
    Jakes was criticized because he is a modalist. “Modalism is is probably the most common theological error concerning the nature of God. It is a denial of the Trinity. Modalism states that God is a single person who, throughout biblical history, has revealed Himself in three modes, or forms. Thus, God is a single person who first manifested himself in the mode of the Father in Old Testament times. At the incarnation, the mode was the Son and after Jesus’ ascension, the mode is the Holy Spirit. These modes are consecutive and never simultaneous. In other words, this view states that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit never all exist at the same time, only one after another. Modalism denies the distinctiveness of the three persons in the Trinity even though it retains the divinity of Christ.” link

    However, during the Elephant Room (we will get to this at some point) Jakes recanted or at least that is what has been reported.

    Jakes is the head of an extremely successful ministry in Dallas calledThe Potters House. It has been incredibly effective in reaching out to the minority population of Dallas. It also has brought in lots of money used in building the church and other efforts. I am sure that Driscoll and others would like to capitalize (in more ways than one) on Jakes’ success. It is just another megachurch initiative.

    Although I am not enthralled with big churches and even less thrilled with larger than life personalities,etc. I will say that Jakes has consistently called out the problem of broken and fatherless families in the population that he serves. For that, I will give him props.

  54. “we are experienced soul winners”

    Could have worded that differently. Sounds rather arrogant.