Robert Schuller: Bankrupt In More Ways Than One

“Shun, as you would the plague, a cleric who from being poor has become wealthy, or who, from being nobody has become a celebrity.”
—Jerome

 

 

Robert Schuller had a profound effect on how church is practiced. However, for many years, he was the only game in town. But, the popularity of positive preaching would come to surpass even Schuller’s “me” oriented pitch. This month, Schuller’s ministry filed for bankruptcy protection. This may protect him from having to shell out money but it does not protect him from criticism And, in this writer’s opinion, he deserves it.

 

1.The prosperity gospel/other churches compete

We have written extensively on the prosperity gospel pimps who tell the faithful the Jesus was actually rich and He wants His faithful to be rolling in dough as well. So, now you not only were supposed to focus on old Number One but you were also supposed to be rich old Number One. Churches morphed quickly from prayer, service and Biblical teaching to an outright circus, looking more like an Amway convention than a gathering of the faithful.

Instead of John 3:16, people we memorizing slogans based on ancient Egyptian metaphysical constructs repackaged for modern audiences. “If you confess it, you will possess it.” Faith morphed from a daily of dying to one’s self to a “speaking what you want into existence.”
The new boys rode into town. Joel Osteen was hipper. Benny Hinn promised more bang for your prayer. Joyce Meyer promised a life of blessings, which meant big houses, big cars and big cash.

Soon, churches in the other denomination such as the SBC took notice and started building their Crystal Cathedrals (see FBC Dallas) with popular, television ready pastors.
Schuller’s game morphed from a cutting edge “ministry” to just another same old, same old, with an aging, has been pastor.
 

 

2.Overbuilding, without money

Schuller had a peculiar habit of building fancy digs without having money in hand. He was “positive” that the money would come in. Religious broadcasting was changing and Hour of Power lost over half of its audience. This program actually provided the bulk of the church’s income. From the NY Times we learn: 

This information apparently came from Robert Schuller Jr. who was supposed to succeed his father and was forced to step down.

“His father, he said, had believed that striking new buildings attracted donors who would continue giving. It worked with the Crystal Cathedral sanctuary dedicated in 1980, designed by the famed architect Philip Johnson and quickly paid off by thousands of donors who had their names inscribed on windows, seats and even the struts that support the glass. But the strategy failed with the church’s “welcoming center,” designed by Richard Meier. It was finished in 2003, and when some major donations fell through, the church still owed $40 million for it, according to the younger Mr. Schuller.”


3. Unrealistic numbers (Shades of the SBC!)

Once again from the same NY Times article we learn :

“Mr. Schuller said that when he came on board, a meticulous effort to straighten out the membership rolls found only 900 to 1,100 regular congregants at Crystal Cathedral — which would mean that it was about 1,500 people short of even qualifying as a mega church. (The church spokesman, Mr. Charles, said Mr. Schuller’s figures were misleadingly low because he counted only those who attended every week. He said the church currently has about 10,000 congregation members."

 

4. Extravagant programming.

From the Wall Street Journal, October 23-24, 2010, we learn the following.

“The church’s debt underscores the elaborate style that came to define the Crystal Cathedral, often cited as progenitor (what did TWW tell you?) of the American mega church. For example, Holiday pageants featured live animals, hundreds of performers and live music. “They had the top choreographers come in and work with the dancers, the top make-up artists, too.” said Joe Branam, owner of Branam Enterprises in Compton Calif., which builds stages for rock concerts and movies and did work for the church. “I’d say the Christmas show in many ways could be more elaborate than a KISS concert.” (They owe Branam a mere few hundred dollars).

 

5. Whatever Sally Seeker wants, Sally Seeker gets. After all it’s about the Gospel, right?

I found this quote in the same Wall St Journal priceless. Brett Judson who is a church member and paid pipe organ performer who is owed money as well said the following.

“The church’s style might seem extravagant, but it brought worship to life. Pageantry is something the congregation wants. All the musical and dramatic outlets are a way to open people up to a positive Christian message.”

I have looked for a listing of the actual cost of this pageant but had trouble finding any numbers. This item in the Huffington Post should give us some idea that the costs were high.

Kristina Oliver, who owns Oliver Livestock Co. in Hemet, says the cathedral owes her more than $56,000. For 29 years, her family has been supplying the pageants with live animals – camels, goats, sheep, horses and donkeys – a much-touted feature of the Glory pageants”.Also Crystal Cathedral is so financially strapped it has failed to pay nearly $100,000 to the vendors responsible for producing the mega-church's mega-popular Christmas and Easter pageants. (Both shows have been canceled for this year; it would have been the Christmas show's 30th anniversary)."

I also read on some older advertisements that they had thousands of people attending these shows at an average cost per ticket of $25.00

 

Hold it….I need to pontificate. Let me get this straight. Our Lord was born in the direst of circumstances, in a cave stable surrounded by animals and muck. His mother and earthly father had little money. Rough shepherds attended Him and angels provided music for the shepherds. In order to reproduce poverty for authenticity, it costs how much???!!!!!!!!!! I guess it might be a negative Christian message if we accurately portrayed the living conditions present that evening. Manure doesn’t smell as nice as apple and cinnamon. Maybe Mary should have hit the shepherds up for some coinage to view the Baby? Good Night!!!!!!!

 

Just so our dear readers can get the feel of really being at the “The Glory of Christmas” at the Crystal Cathedral, we have included a picture of the camel which had the audacity to sneeze on one reporter, John Shore, who attended the pageant. The reporter was covered in camel snot and did not enjoy the rest of the pageant. How could the Schullers let Sneezy (his name) starve????!!! Poor Sneezy.

 

 

6. Schuller is the type of guy who spends more time being a celebrity than a pastor.

I found this following quote to be interesting. Even though I found this on a Christian site by Paul Wilkinson, it was written by a self-professed non-Christian. Isn’t it interesting that outsiders can see us more clearly sometimes? Does this remind our readers of any other pastors who spend more time going to conferences than pursuing their pastoral duties.

“But another Orange County publication, the OC Journal, has columnist Gustavo Arellano inferring that Schuller, Sr. “had it coming.”

…”The world will see that Schuller ultimately influenced American Christianity the most of any pastor in OC–at the expense of his own flock and for personal benefit. Schuller put too much of his church’s focus on himself–the best-selling books, the television program, the many lectures. His message of possibility thinking and seminars for pastors made Warren possible, created the mega church movement, and brought in millions to build his Crystal Cathedral–but while Schuller mugged for the cameras, he never did set a course of succession for his flock. If I was more up-to-date on my Scripture, this is the part where I’d quote Jesus or some prophet about vanity–oh, Ecclesiastes!–and say Schuller didn’t learn.”
 

 

7. Schuller has relied on his immediate family in the business and did not have a definitive plan for succession.
Schuller is now 84 years old. He planned to have his son, Robert Schuller Jr., take over the pulpit. A few years ago, he began as lead pastor. However, after three years in the pulpit, daddy removed Junior. At which point one daughter, Sheila Schuller Coleman, took over the pulpit while other immediate progeny and spouses ran the rest of the ministry.

The reason for Junior’s removal is vague. I couldn’t find any source that gave a definitive answer. Questions were raised about his more subdued manner, his supposed lack of interest in the “positive preaching” style, and his wish to remove family members from the church board due to conflict of interest. The New York Times reports that his father said his son “wasn’t anointed.” This is a “spiritually sounding” excuse that does not ring true.
 

Of course all of that is speculation. But, allow me one further rant. I have observed many successful preachers turning blind eyes to the lack of talent in their own family members. Preaching is a matter of calling. There is nothing in Scripture that seems to indicate that kids should take over daddy’s pulpit. In fact Jesus said that we are not to regard our own family members above the call. He would often tell people to leave their family to follow Him.

There should not be family members on the payroll of any church. The potential for conflict is far too strong. I deplore the hiring of spouses as employees in churches. For example, Debbie Brunson is a paid staff member of FBC Jacksonville. Can you imagine if old Mac had to tell his wife to shape up or ship out? It just won’t happen. It is high time for this practice to cease.
 

 

8.The recession added to the woes and the church has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, which allows them to stay open for business.

The same Wall Street Journal article from above reports that revenues fell from $26.6 million in 2008 to $18.8 million in 2009.

I would like to leave you with some idea of unpaid creditors. The church has filed Chapter 11. They have vowed to pay back all of their creditors. Is it just me or has the church strayed a bit from its mission? I wonder if Jesus would need a media consultant or telemarketing services. How would Christmas ties work with tunics??

 

Lloyd Daniel Corp (media consultant) $318,500

Infocision Management (telemarketing services) $359,788

Eagle Wings (religious themed neckties) $2000

Lutzger and Lutzger (Legal services-Washington DC) $147,225

Cincinatti based bank which financed sound and stage equipment for the church’s TV productions $2,000,000

 

A MAJOR SUGGESTION FOR THE SCHULLER FAMILY AT THE FANCY CATHEDRAL

I would like to leave you with a thought. Can you imagine how people who are outside of the faith view this debacle? What about the witness to the vendor? Here is an example found in the OC Register. Oliver is the supplier of the camels mentioned above.

“On Wednesday, Oliver said she and her family were locked out of their house in the rain by the bank that acquired the property after foreclosure. Oliver has two young children and a husband who is recovering from cancer.
"We had no jackets, no medication…it was awful,'' she said. The Oliver family will get one last opportunity to pack up their things and move to a trailer.”

 

Why don’t the Schullers put on a positive grin and do something that matters? They should sell their fancy houses, give their money to Oliver and then they should move into a trailer. Maybe, then,their crocodile tears for their creditors would be believable. Until they do, this writer believes that this ministry is all about SCHULLER. Maybe they should read their Bibles instead of self help psychobabble.Or is this all a game to them?

 

Twelve disciples, with no money and few possessions, yet armed with a zeal born of a witnessed Resurrection and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit began a movement that changed the face of the world and converted an empire in short order. No telemarketers, no legal services, and certainly no Christmas themed neckties were necessary. Perchance we aren’t behaving like Jesus after all. Conceivably we are merely running a business and doing so quite badly at that. Its time to call a moratorium on fancy pageants and impressing the well-heeled seeker and revisit a poor little cave in Bethlehem.

 

Lydia's Corner:Genesis 37:1-38:30 Matthew 12:22-45 Psalm 16:1-11 Proverbs 3:27-32

Comments

Robert Schuller: Bankrupt In More Ways Than One — 22 Comments


  1. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Hold it….I need to pontificate.

    I just love it when y’all do that!!! 😆

    This may give some insight about why things went bad:

    http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2009/02/07/alleged-schuller-family-crystal-cathedral-squabbles-over-financial-transparency-and-leadership-accountability

    Back in August it was announced that, “Crystal Cathedral founder Robert H. Schuller, his wife Arvella, and their five children and respective spouses will all take a voluntary 50 percent pay cut for the next four pay periods, according to an e-mail from Sheila Schuller Coleman to all cathedral employees.”

    Source: http://www.ocregister.com/articles/cathedral-261332-pay-church.html

    That’s 12 family members reported to be on the church payroll! Robert H. and Arvella have only 5 children. So is son, Robert A. (he’s not a “junior”), still on the payroll? After the big falling out one would think not, but if this information is correct one has to wonder.

    For example, Debbie Brunson is a paid staff member of FBC Jacksonville.

    So is their son, Trey. At Bellevue Steve Gaines’ son-in-law is co-music director, it’s been rumored Donna is paid (she at least profits from her “women’s studies” sales), and his new son-in-law is (or was) a paid intern. In the megachurch world, nepotism seems to be the rule, not the exception.


  2. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Twelve disciples, with no money and few possessions, yet armed with a zeal born of a witnessed Resurrection and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit began a movement that changed the face of the world and converted an empire in short order. No telemarketers, no legal services, and certainly no Christmas themed neckties were necessary. Perchance we aren’t behaving like Jesus after all. Conceivably we are merely running a business and doing so quite badly at that. Its time to call a moratorium on fancy pageants and impressing the well-heeled seeker and revisit a poor little cave in Bethlehem.

    Yes.


  3. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    As to paying family members, I am pretty sure one of our former churches takes the cake.

    A DTS grad (which is one reason that as far as credentials go in my experience, DTS credentials are a danger sign, not a reassurance!) pastors a local church around here. It is an independent church, of course. :\ Doctrinally it was sound enough.

    Except it showed some signs of pastor worship all along. Still, when we were attending it had a board of elders to whom the pastor was accountable. That ended when the pastor amassed enough celebrity cachet though.

    An ousted pastor from our local version of the Crystal Cathedral was brought on by the DTS grad pastor as a “consultant”. Good people began resigning from key positions. Sycophants stayed on. Soon a new form of church government was proposed. It was passed swiftly and silently with little opposition, as no one was ever allowed to present any objections or comments or even read it prior to the night of the vote.

    The new change made the pastor in charge of all hiring and firing, and made the new board of elders to consist of, you guessed it, paid staff members. No longer anything resembling any church I ever grew up in, this place is clearly a privately owned business operating as a church.

    Every sermon starts with video vignettes starring the pastor and his family. Do the kids and wife get paid? My guess is yes but who could one possibly ask? You can’t get an appointment with the pastor, he is carefully guarded by an unfriendly close-mouthed staff. I think you could get an appointment with a junior staff member, but I doubt he could (or would) answer that question.

    Some of these vignettes were filmed while the pastor and his family were on a themed vacation. Did the church pay for this vacation? I’m pretty sure the answer is yes, but I can’t say definitively so. If so, was it as a business expense (non-taxable as income) or as a part of the pastoral compensation package? Questions, questions.

    Incidentally, this pastor preaches about tithing every single sermon somewhere. He almost always predicates it with a statement like “I hate to talk about giving but….” I knew a family with a handicapped daughter, with overwhelming medical bills that were only going to continue to grow. These parents were tormented with shame about being unable to tithe.

    We left that church when the new volunteer paperwork came out. A police background check is only reasonable, but a credit check? Also, it was required to sign a form holding harmless any one asking questions about you or answering questions about you. The membership pledge included a signed statement that one would not gossip about the church, and yet here they require volunteers to give legal carte blanche to the church as far as their choice to solicit or engage in gossip. Unreal.

    The truly unreal part is how this church kept growing! They have a tiered membership of levels that you have to complete before being eligible for the next level “membership class”. They structure them with course codes like a college, with prerequisites and everything. Questions are deferred as being answered in later courses. Why don’t people get suspicious?

    I think the answer is that they are reaching non-Christians. They baptize a lot of people. But what will happen to the faith of these people when they realize that, along with the truth, they have been managed and milked by an organization that had a hidden agenda as well?

    I love the new, poorer digs where I meet up with other Christians now. I hope our pastor avoids the “success” bug. So far, sincerity of faith and purpose is his most admirable quality. May it never change.

    Ugh. Church as a business is an abomination.


  4. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    SS
    Have you read our stuff on spiritual abuse? Click on it under categories. Also, we recommend a good book called The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse. It opened my eyes to the tactics that you saw in your last church. This stuff is brought about by the new hyperauthoritatrianism.

    Its interesting. I know of a situation in which people were confronting a pastor over his lack of response to a sexual abuse situation that happened under his nose.His response? “What about my authority?” These people are nuts and dangerous at the same time and this sort of stuff need to be exposed.

    I think you might get a wry laugh and shake your head out of this post about a true story in which a grandmother was perp walked out of a church for questioning the pastor. The pastor called the police from the pulpit. And you thought the Freddy Krueger horror movies were scary!

    http://thewartburgwatch.com/2009/04/27/71-year-old-grandma-perp-walked-out-of-church-say-it-aint-so/


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    notastepford

    You should be writing a blog!!! You have such good information. BTW, I am now hooked on free jinger.


  6. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Yeah, notastepford, you should be writing a blog!


  7. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Agreed! Just want ya’ll to know that I really enjoy our little blogging community. All of you are very special to Dee and me.


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    Junkster

    So should you. But remember, you are always welcome to post things here


  9. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    “An ousted pastor from our local version of the Crystal Cathedral was brought on by the DTS grad pastor as a “consultant”. Good people began resigning from key positions. Sycophants stayed on. Soon a new form of church government was proposed. It was passed swiftly and silently with little opposition, as no one was ever allowed to present any objections or comments or even read it prior to the night of the vote.”

    I have seen variations of this sort of thing for years. My favorite was when SBTS sent an interim pastor to a church as a “stealth” pick to take the church over to be a part of the Highview Campus. (Highview was Ezell’s church who is now NAMB prez and Mohler’s boy). Highview calls these small churches they took over “dead” churches. I am trying to figure out what is a dead church. I think they see numbers are representing whether a church is alive or dead. And I think that is a horrible measure.

    The shenanigans involved to take over the church are too much to post herebut it was definitely a stealth deal and by the time the members figured it out, it was too late. They did have to have a church vote and people were coming out of the Hospital beds to vote because the Highview contention said they had to vote in person. Highview won the vote by a very small margin.

    The folks I feel for are the 70-80 year olds who spent their lives in these churches doing everything and supporting it financially. This particular church was in a blue collar part of town and never had a big staff. The members did everything. God bless those folks. But the new way is to hire lots of staff to do it for the people. To be their Holy Spirit in the flesh and tell them what to do. We are not growing mature believers any more. We are growing sycophants who follow men.


  10. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    “Schuller had a peculiar habit of building fancy digs without having money in hand. He was “positive” that the money would come in.”

    I attended a church in Miami, Florida that did exactly this. Back before I moved to Miami and started attending, they moved into a larger building, “living by faith” that more people would come and increase the offering so it could be paid for.

    The exact opposite happened. By the time I moved to Miami, the church was getting in serious financial trouble and couldn’t pay for the building.

    The ministers’ suggestion? Split into independent house churches.

    I don’t *know* if our financial problems were the impetus for our church splitting, with many of us (including myself) going into independent house churches–but I do think that had something to do with it.


  11. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Several people have made comments about how these closed governance churches keep growing.

    I think there’s something wired into our DNA that makes us want to let someone else run things. And for many people attending a church is a social thing, not a path of following Jesus. Most of us WANT to be led. And if we look close at one level we have to realize we can’t be deeply involved in everything. But we at least need to watch what we are involved in and make sure it passes the smell test. And at the same time not expect perfection from others.

    I look at the politics of the USA. Many people vote R or D. Even if they are voting for incompetent fools or people who they only agree with on one or two wedge issues. But if they dig deeper would find out they wouldn’t want to be in the same room with many of the positions they have just elected.

    How does it go? “We have met the enemy and he is us.”?


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    Lynn and Tina

    You will not believe what we are writing about this week. It fits into what you are both saying. And yes, the enemy is us. We sit around and think that some guy up front has all the answers. we forget that they are just as fallen as us and can go down the wrong path for the wrong reasons.Yet, it is too much work to confront the issues. Who wants to be thought of as a troublemaker. we want to be though of as nice. Well, Jesus never allowed nice. He insisted on radical love and sometimes it ain’t nice.


  13. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    “We sit around and think that some guy up front has all the answers. we forget that they are just as fallen as us and can go down the wrong path for the wrong reasons.”

    Exactly. And think about this: Most of them go from seminary to a church and live in a ‘ministry bubble” all their lives. they never have to report to an atheist boss or work on a project with a radical lesbian. They have NO clue as to the real world. They would be lost navigating what most of us have dealt with for years. And as Christians we live in peace with those around us every day.

    They only deal with such things indirectly as a pastor. Their income is not dependent on working with all kinds of people in the “world”. That is one reason they have so little credibility with me anymore. They are protected and insulated. I would rather learn from someone who is a sold out believer who works and lives in the same world that I do every day.


  14. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    BTW: Can you picture Al Mohler reporting to a radical Lesbian boss everyday? I can’t even picture him reporting to a female boss!

    Such is the world of the insular career in ministry. What can they really tell us that we cannot learn from the Word ourselves?


  15. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Lydia,

    I am doing the story on Ed Young, Jr. today and will follow up with an open letter to him and his wife tomorrow. You talk about chutzpah! Even Benny Hinn has not sunk to this level. Ed Young’s church is SBC. So much for Mohler’s denominational oversight garbage.


  16. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Here is the SBC formula in case you missed it:

    When it comes to women in ministry and homosexuals, there is NO local church autonomy. (Seems they think the above are the same)

    When it comes to money, sexual perverts in the pulpit and protecting minister pedophiles there IS local church autonomy.


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    Lydia,

    Actions (as well as inaction) speak much louder than words. What you have shared is so true about the SBC! Those who protect pedophiles in the pulpit have hearts of stone. God is watching…


  18. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Lydia,

    So true, there’s not much worse than reporting to an atheist boss 🙂


  19. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Lolz Karl!

    It’s true that if these guys ever had to interact with the rest of society, instead of living in their little ministry bubbles, they wouldn’t be able to function.


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    Karl
    Frankly, I have had some atheist bosses who were the life of the party. I like the point though. Sometimes, atheist or Christian, we spend so much time in our closed little circles that we never communicate or understand one another. Stephen Covey said we must first seek to understand then to be understood. And I have tried darn hard to do that, even when it is uncomfortable.


  21. Notice: Undefined variable: button in /home/guswo2wr8yyv/public_html/tww2/wp-content/plugins/quote-comments/quote-comments.php on line 127

    Karl
    There was a group that caused some Christians to get upset. It was called Evangelicals and Catholics Together (ECT). Let’s start a new group, Evangelicals and Atheists Together (EAT) and we could all get together for a church pot luck dinner. Then, we could mosey on over to the Creation Museum and ride one of the dinosaur exhibits. We could be united over the age of the earth and a good apple pie.


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    😆