The Summit style, along with its Agreeable Gray paint…

“Agreeable Grey”?
Is that anything like “Millenial Grey”, “Sad Beige”, or “Kardashian White” where everything in the building – exterior, interior flooring, walls, ceilings, carpets, furniture, everything – is all in the exact same shade of the exact same color? One Color to Rule them All?

<blockquote.Over the last few years, the SBC, in its effort to plant churches, has discovered that constructing new church buildings, particularly in areas of rapid growth, is a costly endeavor. It began to set its sights on churches with existing infrastructure, to merge or acquire the property.
Raid-and-Pillage Economy.
Where it’s easier and cheaper to knock over the tribe next door and take all their stuff for yourself instead of the work of growing or making it yourself.

“I am the Shark among the Minnows; I am the Lion among the Sheep; I am the Predator among the Prey.”
— Sigma Male Affirmation mantra

Nine Marx is just waiting to take over the Chapel Hill Bible Church building, I suspect. Just like this story.

“The Summit style, along with its Agreeable Gray paint, lack of a choir, preschool, and certainly no flag to be seen, is now the starting point for every graduate from SEBTS. We must all be gray, like the Summit!”

Is there a Cross displayed in the sanctuary?

Well buildings used for churches do get reused.
The building at 59 Brick Lane in the East End of London is one such. It was first, in 1743, a church for the Huguenot community (the East End has for centuries been where recent poor immigrants settled, the Huguenots were French protestants who fled France after the revocation of the Edict of Nantes). After they moved up and out, it became, in 1809, a Anglican chapel aimed initially at converting the new Jewish immigrants settling in the East End before becoming a Methodist chapel in 1819. In 1898 after the Jewish population in the East End had exploded due to many fleeing pogroms in Russia and central Europe, it became a synagogue. Over the decades most of the Jewish residents have moved up and out and Muslims mostly from Bangladesh moved in so in 1976 the building was bought and became a mosque, the Brick Lane Mosque (the synagogue had followed many of its members and moved to a new building in north London).

Enough digression, stay aware of cruelty and injustice.

I live reasonably close to Knightdale (all things considered) and passed FBC several times over the course of a weekend last autumn while traveling to and from a wedding that I was officiating – a wedding that was held in the same barn/ on the farm that hosted the displaced “Defenders of Faith” for worship as seen on the documentary; it truly was a peaceful and beautiful location.

I was completely unaware of this situation until recently. The only person I have met or knowingly interacted with who is mentioned on the video that JD. I first came in contact with him in 1997 and all I will say is that his behavior then was consistent with the behavior displayed on the documentary. The only difference is that he had one follower at the time…I am pretty sure it was Bruce Ashford. We spent nearly 6 hours together in a car that I was driving from Wake Forest to Boone and back. Long story short, JD was speaking at a Cru meeting at App State and rode there and back with me and a friend of mine. I don’t remember him saying two words to me or even acknowledging my presence over the course of 7+ hours.

All that is a personal aside, though.

Spiritually, one thing, among so many things, that stood out to me was that the “Defenders of Faith” seemed to be a prayer focused group. This was more an observation, I don’t remember it being highlighted in the documentary. But their public prayers seemed natural and sincere, and that usually only happens when there is (much) private prayer preceding it. If I am correct in assuming they regularly and passionately prayed, then I believe the battle was won on their knees even more than in the courtroom.

Jon Harris, who helped produce the series, responds to the letter from Summit’s “directional elders.”

https://x.com/jonharris1989/status/1939076554459594809

Muff Potter,

How did Greer ever get elected as sbc president. He appears to be a very unchristlike person and surely some of the thousands that voted for him had to know this?

Burwell Stark: I don’t remember him saying two words to me or even acknowledging my presence over the course of 7+ hours.

Others who have “experienced” Mr. Greear typically use “arrogant” to describe him. Of course, that has become the overriding characteristic of leaders within the New Calvinist movement. Greear is a darling of SBC dudebros – they worship and adore him. In that long car ride, he must have sensed that you didn’t want to do that so he didn’t need to bother with you. As in septic tanks, the big chunks float to the top in the NeoCal world.

dee: I think the man is exactly how he is portrayed in this eyeopening series

He may even get a standing ovation after Summit members view the movie!

They do need their red roof back . . .

Understandably people are deeply troubled and offended when others impose their will over them. Happens on a small scale when a spouse or so called pastor imposes their will over a partner or fellow Christians. Happens more broadly when a nation imposes its will through its soft and hard power over another nation and society. The common driving force & motivation of course is hybris, self-interest, fear, lack of self-awareness, an erroneous sense of moral, cultural, spiritual and intellectual superiority, not to mention also, little or no empathy for the other.

“JD Greear Unmasked”

Things won’t change much in the SBC until the whole deceptive New Calvinist movement within the denomination is unmasked. Right now, millions of non-Calvinists in SBC pews across the country are financing this rebellion unaware that 150 years of belief and practice (as non-Calvinists) are subtly shifting to reformed theology by stealth and deception. These guys are slick!

If by serving Knightsdale meaning back to spewing their Christian Nationalist excrement decrying and labeling any opposition to that as “woke”, then sure. Pity both parties couldn’t destroy themselves in their conflict.

Troy: It isn’t hard to show from the Bible how wrong Calvinism and Reformed Theology are … If the pewsitters are too lazy or dumb to try reading the Bible for themselves …

I spent decades in SBC life. For a group called “People of the Word”, I was amazed at how many long-time Southern Baptists didn’t read their Bibles nor pray as they ought. They are easy targets for false theology and slick preachers like Greear.

Max: I spent decades in SBC life. For a group called “People of the Word”, I was amazed at how many long-time Southern Baptists didn’t read their Bibles nor pray as they ought.

Let me guess…

Who needs this Jesus guy when we have THE! WORD! OF! GOD! (shaking their Bible in your face with every word). Weaponzing their Bibles like the Taliban do with their Korans?

Max: We are to avoid not only evil actions, but behavior that might be perceived as wrong or harmful by others.

In Yiddish, the last half of that sentence is called “A Shanda fur die Goyim” – Actions and behavior by Jews that nor only bring reproach upon Judaism, but fuel Anti-Semitism against all Jews.

Sandy,

“The Bible is ambiguous”

In one sense I think I know what you’re saying & mean. But sometimes in my thoughtless, lazy and selfish moments I wish it was more so.
You know all that staff about living out Kingdom values and what transcends this short life, such as, child like faith and trust no matter what comes your way. Loving and giving without any expectation of receiving. Forgiving those we don’t feel like forgiving. Being materially and socially content in life. Endeavouring to be peaceful and gracious with difficult people. Questioning one’s motives and doing the right thing even if its at personal cost.
And without sounding overly pious, endeavouring to do all things for Jesus sake, which from time to time will entail bearing a cross.

doesn’t matter: Nine Marx is just waiting to take over the Chapel Hill Bible Church building, I suspect.

The New Calvinists are not content unless they are taking over something for the glory of their movement. Stealth, deception, intimidation, manipulation, domination are in their toolkit.

Max,

Thank you Max. I was being a bit lazy and chose a sarcastic expression of the obvious (to me) scripture without bothering to look it up and cite it verbatim.

Sandy,

St Paul usually says what he is saying by not saying what he is not saying. For example, the words “He is All and in All”, was a common proverb. That isn’t a real doctrine, Paul was just getting enthusiastic in some “bullet points”!

To understand the Bible before you get to the Bible, don’t listen to the bigmouths first!

Afterburne,

Addendum. That scripture is apparently not obvious to those who purport to be expositors (self-proclaimed arbiters even) of scripture.

Obviously they are expositors and arbiters only partially, selectively, and when it benefits them and their take-over agenda.

Afterburne,

“May everyone of them encounter appropriate divine justice here on earth (AKA loving discipline)”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

indeed. although without the loving discipline idea – in my observation, those words are what church leaders use to do whatever they darn well please to control people.

calling it “love”, “loving” in the same way that marketing departments call their products “NEW!” and “IMPROVED” and “ORGANIC”

when all they did was either change something trivial or reduce their costs in materials & production to help their bottom line.

Troy,

“If the pewsitters are too lazy or dumb to try reading the Bible for themselves with a little effort and precision”
+++++++++++++++

so-called ‘perspicuity of scripture’ only makes clear a few things that actually matter,

and is license to policing a million things as ‘self-evident’ thus biblical

which really are inconclusive.

elastigirl:my agnostic, atheist, and muslim friends and family live by these values.

In my world view, Jesus has indeed “returned” to humanity during the past 2000 years.
Gloriously, if imperfectly.

His is part of an even larger global movement toward more humane and loving ways to treat each other and ourselves. The foundational values of humanity have evolved dramatically (even with great fallback sometimes).

At the time of Jesus, these ideas were radical.
Now they are universally widespread.
The gospel has now reached all humanity.
But it’s only dimly revealed in the Bible.
The spirit is the whole point, not the word or rule.

When it does shine, it’s brightest in the human heart, no matter what your creed.
You don’t really need the church or the Bible to participate.

We have new challenges which require the best of all of us, which is no longer found in old theology.

elastigirl: my agnostic, atheist, and muslim friends and family live by these values

Just checking, I responded to this message by elastigirl several hours ago and I thought I saw it post, or did I misfire? Did it get deleted as heretical? No worries, it’s your blog, just wondering what the meter look like.

elastigirl: i’d sure love to explore this and so many more topics in a jazz club

The room was humming harder
And the ceiling flew away
She said, “There is no reason
And the truth is plain to see”
That I wandered through my playing cards
And although my eyes were open
They might just as well have been closed
And so it was later
When the miller told this tale
He said that her face at first just ghostly
And then turned a whiter shade of pale

FBC sermons (in the “videos” tab) and full services (in the “live” tab) are available online on YouTube.

Today they announced their hopes to restore the choir, orchestra, and preschool ministry in August.

Also, Pastor Williams said that they cannot legally accept new members until sometime in the fall but that he hopes to have a big cookout and celebration when new members can be accepted.

elastigirl:

the ends justify the means is really the functional cornerstone of the christian system.

I think that is overly broad. It is, unfortunately, the case in some corners of Christendom, but not all.

That said, I think it probably is a fair assessment of so much of the commercialized versions of Christendom.

When the ends justify the means, one ends up with the means defining the end – bad fruit. What is too often exposed here can be recognized by such fruit. Not TWW’s fault of course. Bad actors should be better and not do things that are shouted from the rooftops. They should stop making the headlines by not behaving like, well, you know.

Other ministries can be recognized by their good fruit (indicative that the means are likely just). Are they perfect? No. Is their fruit good? Yes? Then they are likely on a good path.

Many ministries exhibit good fruit. Mother Theresa’s comes to mind. But there are so many small ministries that do good. I know of some here locally where I live.

I would throw out there, though, that the bigger the organization, the more opportunity there is for things to go astray.

If you are going to give, give locally to someone you have a better feel for, not globally to some entity you really have no clue about.

As for actually going to church? Unfortunately for too many, that is a minefield not to be entered due to having been harmed through previous experiences. My heart goes out to those that have been forced to walk that path.

dee,

I bet they would welcome you with or without bringing extra food!

elastigirl: “a covered dish”

In SBC lingo, that means a food item brought to a fellowship meal at the church … a food contribution where each family brings one or more dishes to share with everyone else … “covered” with something for sanitary reasons until the meal. As a former Southern Baptist (I’m a “Done” now), I consumed countless “covered dishes” during decades of church fellowship meals. In rural America, Grammas were known to bring their most favorite tasty item to share with church members. There was fried chicken galore, a range of casseroles, and coconut cream pies with meringue toppings that I still dream about! The fellowship meals were better than the preachin’ in those churches!

dee: I plan to pay a visit. I can make pretty good fried chicken.

Dee, I’m sure they would welcome you as a visitor whether you brought a “covered dish” or not. As a new face in the crowd, they will stare at you anyway … wondering if you are going to try to take over their church or some other sinister thing. (although, I bet your fried chicken is great!)

Ras al Ghul: the dreaded green bean casserole at SBC fellowship meals

Oh no … not those with the french fried onion thingies?!

Max,

“Though all the mess in the American church…what happened to Jesus?”
To say the least, I sense your frustration. What troubles me with many aspects of the US church and so too of Western churches due to US soft power, and the influence of carnal market forces and capitalism. Things are now so overt to the point that hypocrisy – ‘being in character’ – isn’t being in character, but actual character itself 24/7 and that money, and all that it offers, has its finger prints everywhere.
In the past some would shamelessly squeeze Jesus into this mix but it’s a much more difficult endeavour because even agnostics and atheists who know something of Christ life and teachings are calling this carnal character and little evidence of faith, grace and love out.

Ian Docker: even agnostics and atheists who know something of Christ life and teachings

It is hard for some to admit, but one can know nothing of Christ, or even reject Christ, and have an advanced moral outlook with an overflow of empathy and love.

Ian Docker: I not only know such people, have also been personally helped by them to which I greatly appreciate and respect.

Yes!
May Gods love be with you,
and with the old man and with the sad boy.

These words just popped into my head, so why not.

i′ve seen all good people turn their heads each day
so satisfied i’m on my way.
take a straight and stronger course to the corner of your life.
move me on to any black square,
use me any time you want,
send an instant karma to me,
initial it with loving care
don′t surround
yourself
With yourself
’cause it′s time, it’s time in time with your time
send an instant karma to me,
initial it with loving care
It’s your move.

Sandy,

One of my favorite songs by “Yes”! I had to immediately queue it up and am listening to it as I type this.

Michael in UK: strengthen the remaining agnostics (and thereby ourselves).

I like the term gnostic, with a small g.
The proper approach in my view is to seek genuine knowledge.
Unfortunately the gatekeepers have defiled the entire concept of gnosticism, and driven a stake through the hearts of any adherents.
Gnosticism is not a set of beliefs. It is a modern attitude to knowledge and goodness.

We can be together
Ah you and me
We should be together

Sandy,

““Yes”!

They are touring this fall”
+++++++++++++++

oh my gosh…… ‘Hold On’ is my favorite.

wow!!!

Sandy,

Originally a “gnostic” was a term for know-it-alls who were “initiated” (at least verbally and mentally hazed) insiders, unlike us ignorant, unacceptable outcasts. There is every right for your wonderful, subversive, inside-out meaning!

In my personal usage “agnostic” means baggage agnostic. Carry one another’s burdens, not unworthy manipulators’ organisational baggage. I believe in cafeteria Christianity, and shopping-list prayer.

Eat everything on the (real) menu – only not all at once, keep coming back. Go shopping to Him without price (set by any gatekeepers) for the needs of your peers.