Ligonier Ministries acknowledged the verdict of the judicial commission, noting that “[t]hese are not criminal matters nor severe moral failings, such as sexual or financial sins.”..
Humm…. Interesting standards… I guess it is “not that bad” if you are just a “@#$&” as long as there is no hanky panky or stieeling $$$$…
It is amazing they put out such as statement….

And I am suppose to listen to these clowns???

Jeffrey Chalmers,

Luke 6:36 – You must be compassionate, just as your Father is compassionate.

Revile – To speak in an insulting, abusive, or contemptuous manner towards someone. The use of harsh, bitter, and demeaning language with the intent to injure, denigrate, or demoralize another person.

Reviler – a person who uses words to damage and control someone or insult their character or reputation.

A reviler is someone who speaks abusively or contemptuously about or toward another person. They use harsh, insulting language to attack or denigrate someone. They engage in destructive speech.

A reviler is a verbal abuser and verbal abusers blame their victims.

The term implies a person who habitually engages in this kind of verbal abuse.

Jesus had some choice words about this type of person.

Matthew 5:22 (ESV)
“. . . . If you call someone an idiot, you are in danger of being brought before the court.
If you curse someone, you are in danger of the fires of hell.”

“Out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks” (Matthew 12:34). A reviler reveals what is in their heart, and it is the heart that God searches and judges (Jeremiah 17:9–10).

Paul also had some choice words for revilers – twice even!

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (ESV):
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor REVILERS, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 5:11 (ESV)
I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, REVILER, drunkard, or swindler – not even to eat with such a one.

Ligonier claims no “severe moral failings” but his apparent persistent behavior and attitude towards others is listed in company with several other “severe moral failings”.

Clowns indeed – and apparently not reliable judges of character. By supporting him, has Ligonier also taken on the mantle of “reviler”?

Maybe don’t sit down to dinner with them either.

Afterburne,

Unfortunately, as we seem to almost continually observe, many “Christian orgs” are “just as bad” as the abusive individual……. For many years, I saw signs of it, but i let these orgs make me feel the problem was me…. But no longer!

Jeffrey Chalmers: Humm…. Interesting standards… I guess it is “not that bad” if you are just a “@#$&” as long as there is no hanky panky or stealing $$$$…
It is amazing they put out such a statement….

Right? Looks like there’s a pretty low bar to clear for acceptable behaviour in their own organisation. They didn’t even put in an obligatory sentence or two about how abuse is bad, or the victims matter, or even that Parsons is sorry if someone may have been offended.

I think this will come back to bite them. Since this is not Parsons’ first trial for the same behaviours, they can’t say they didn’t know there was a problem. Some of the prosecution witnesses were from Ligonier. This may expose them to retaliation, and Ligonier to workplace lawsuits if something goes wrong.

I do appreciate that the presbytery were willing to convict on a list of behaviours that actually sounds like standard operating procedure for many pastors today. I hope the bit about possible restoration is a theoretical statement, but they are well aware he won’t change. As Dee said, he seems to have no problem being dragged through church courts from time to time, & jumping up to appeal his suspension doesn’t exactly show ‘signs of repentance’.

It is noted in the official record that the indefinite suspension is because “ TE Parsons had previously pled guilty to similar charges in 2019 and received admonition at that time. This, along with subsequent reports of relational harm and unhealthy leadership environment, taking place both before and since the 2019 event, indicate an unresolved pattern, and thus led the Commission to discern that indefinite suspension was the appropriate censure. This decision by the Commission was unanimous and was accompanied by prayer for TE Parson’s repentance, the glory of God, and the peace and purity of the church.”

This is his earlier apology in 2023 -“ You have to understand, my lack of gentleness, my harshness at times, that’s, that’s my
character, OK, that’s who I am. My personality and my character are not nat…, I am not
naturally gentle, I am not naturally kind. I don’t do well in little ‘chit chat’ conversations because
I don’t know what to say and I think I’m going to probably hurt someone’s feelings at some point.
You have to understand in many ways when, and this is just to help you understand a little bit, I
didn’t ask to be a preacher. I didn’t ask to be a leader. I didn’t ask to be in a position of
proclaiming, defending, rebuking, exhorting. And, if it were my decision, and if I could do it, I
wouldn’t be any of it. I wouldn’t be a pastor. I wouldn’t be a preacher. I wouldn’t have to stand up
here and have to proclaim. I wouldn’t have to get in people’s faces and their business and meddle
with them and deal with their sins and deal with the problem of people’s… I wouldn’t do it. I
would rather have a completely different personality and completely different set of
characteristics and do something else.
Those of you in this congregation, those of you whose are friends of mine, those of you I know,
those of you men, especially that are humble, and kind and sweet, I wish I were like you. This is
who I am. Everywhere else, I am just trying to be normal. Everywhere else, I am trying to just be
the gentle, sweet, person that I am not naturally.
I am naturally not gentle, and so that came out a little bit last week. I hear everything. I see
everything. I see when people are nodding off. I see when someone has got to go to the bathroom
again. I hear every noise; I hear everything up here. And I was grateful, I was grateful about 20
years ago when there was a phone that went off, this is in the old, old sanctuary. Some of you
were here, you remember. And another phone off in the middle service and I got after the folks –
and it was 20 years ago and a man in our church who was here during the first service called me
and told me that it was only one person who did that. But it was a much-needed correction and
rebuke.
You have to understand dearly beloved we all suffer with these things and deal with these things
or struggle with these things but some of us including me struggle with the a lot more than many
of you would like to know and my friends and my family know this and I have to remind them
time to time while it is difficult to put up with me and to live with me, it’s much harder being me.
But I am grateful for your kindness and grateful for your love and your forgiveness. I am grateful
for your understanding. You know, we all know, and kids you who are here, kids, your parents
and my kid’s parents your pastor are not perfect, and I know you know that. That’s why we need
to be a people who are regularly forgiving each other because without it we wouldn’t have a
friend. Without forgiveness we would have family. Withour forgiveness we wouldn’t … and I
know some of you right now are probably saying “ah, we didn’t need to hear all that.” You know,
well, I needed to say it. And I hope that you understand, and I hope that you appreciate that and
thank you for your listening this morning”

Jeffrey Chalmers:
Christie24,

As mentioned above… The Ligonier sure seems to ignore allot of Scripture… Why would I ever trust anything out of their mouth?????

Because it’s SCRIPTURAL (Seventies term for today’s “Biblical”.)

Valerie Stewart: Parsons, like many other abusers, have become that way through a high sense of entitlement and a chronic lack of self-reflection.

And what does it say about the grown adults who shell out their hard-earned bucks to a mountebank like Parsons? I have zero sympathy for them.

Afterburne: why on earth

It may be that within Presbyterian as well as other traditions, skill in teaching covers a multitude of sins.

“we learned that Parsons was tried over a non-flagitious matter, and he repented in 2019.”
+++++++++++++++++++

it’s ok to be an @ssh0le for Jesus as long as you’re not flagitious. sanctimoniously so.

the comedy of it all…. it’s just too much

Lowlandseer,

The date of joining the PCA is more likely to have been between 1973 and 1975 according to other sources. Apologies.

Samuel Conner: The thought occurs that it might be really useful to have diagnostic methods to ascertain, in young candidates for ministry, the level of function and the accuracy of their conscience (and empathy, which is useful as a way of intuiting how one comes across to others). Failing that, a fallback might be comprehensive lists of permitted and prohibited behaviors (a sort of procedural “external conscience” to assist vocational ministers who, through no fault of their own, have subnormal functioning conscience). Within Presbyterian church system, ministers make vows, the breaking of which is grounds for removal (after trial) from office; perhaps these vows could include promises to comply with the exhaustive list of behavioral prohibitions.

I agree. It should always be clear what specific types of behaviour are & are not acceptable. This would have the benefit of helping pastors with less experience grow in maturity, and correct issues quickly before they become bigger problems.

It might also help in providing a concept of ‘pastoral competence’ for those who don’t have the right personality/skills to be good pastors, but might do well in a parachurch ministry role that didn’t involve personal spiritual care.

Samuel Conner,

Ha, if one is not even supposed to have a meal with someone like this, one shouldn’t be listening to their teaching either.

Their priorities are backwards from what Jesus taught for sure, but well inline with wordly secular motives.

What could go wrong by allowing a little sprinkling of being motivated by the world mixed in with “Biblical” teaching anyway? All for the Benjamins I guess.

Afterburne,

I don’t disagree, but in the present environment in which “mastery of theological system” seems to be the primary filter for removing people unsuitable for ministry, and “skill in teaching” seems to be the primary thing that congregations are looking for in their “shepherds”, I think that there need to be additional tests and safeguards.

The suggestion of an exhaustive list of prohibited behaviors is at one level kind of ridiculous; this is the sort of thing you do for children who have not yet internalized the ethics of the culture in which they are raised. But I think the reality is that there are adults (not all, perhaps not even many, but some, including some who are in vocational ministry) who don’t have much skill in discerning when they are harming the people with whom they interact. Some of them may not care, but for the ones who genuinely don’t want to be hurtful, but are not skilled at distinguishing help from harm, external guidance might be useful.

Afterburne,

“If one is not even supposed to have a meal with someone like this, one shouldn’t be listening to their teaching either.”

All this teaching & preaching though a valid ministry, is still very much one dimensional and in urban society can easily mask the character and personality. The significant downside of supermarket mall churches where a modeled life is never evident.

Lowlandseer,

“This decision by the Commission was unanimous and was accompanied by prayer for TE Parson’s repentance, the glory of God, and the peace and purity of the church.”
++++++++++++

it’s good to hear it was unanimous.

but ‘the glory of God’ and praying for it…(does it have some kind of practical value?)…. color me bewildered.

505339″>Samuel Conner,
Christie24,

“…exhaustive list of behavioral prohibitions.”
<a href="#comment-

Valerie Stewart: almost 1/3 of pastors surveyed

If the survey you are referencing is the research study underlying the book on pastoral narcissism, “Let Us Prey”, that statistic is not reliable (whether it is low or high is not known in the absence of a more accurate survey tool).

https://julieroys.com/study-claiming-31-of-pastors-have-clinical-narcissism-is-debunked-by-expert-researchers/

This isn’t to discount the problem of narcissism among vocational ministers, but the extent of the problem is not yet accurately quantified (at least to my awareness, perhaps this has been more recently studied with reliable survey instruments that I have not heard about).

Max: The problem with jerks is that they never see themselves as a jerk.

It’s a variant of the Dunning-Kruger Effect.
As a 3000-year-old piece of Jewish wisdom literature puts it,
“A Fool is Wise in his own eyes.”

Samuel Conner: I don’t disagree, but in the present environment in which “mastery of theological system” seems to be the primary filter for removing people unsuitable for ministry

Reminds me of Christian Cult Watch ministries of the 1970s.
Their definition of CULT(TM) was 100% Theology, Theology, and Theology.
Completely ignoring any and all abusive “cult” behavior towards their people. If the group’s Theology was Correct, it was NOT a Cult(TM).

And while the Christian Cult Watchers were parsing Theology under an electron microscope, abusive churches such as what appear on this blog sailed right through. Even waving their “Church, Not CULT” status as a weapon to further abuse their people.

i.e.
“If You Question What I Say Or Do
YOU REBEL AGAINST THE FATHER, TOO!”
— Steve Taylor, “I Manipulate”

elastigirl,

Orcs. Now that is an apt description of some of these folks.

elastigirl: the comedy of it all…. it’s just too much

It’s as funny as an old Marx Bros. film.

If Parsons was SA by Pearlmam, it makes sense. Those abused often become abusers themselves. Since Pearlman is dead, only Parsons can shed light on that.

Todd Wilhelm,

If all this is true, and there’s no reason to think it isn’t, should he not be given the opportunity to unburden himself at TWW? I ask this seriously.

Samuel Conner: If the survey you are referencing is the research study underlying the book on pastoral narcissism, “Let Us Prey”, that statistic is not reliable (whether it is low or high is not known in the absence of a more accurate survey tool).
https://julieroys.com/study-claiming-31-of-pastors-have-clinical-narcissism-is-debunked-by-expert-researchers/

Thanks for bringing this matter to my attention, Samuel. I was not aware of it. The link you provided to Julie Roy’s article was well worth the read. I have the book “Let us Prey” and should probably pitch it in the bin!

Lowlandseer,

Todd Wilhelm,

An issue that I have never before considered (which I suppose is mark of how clueless I am) is that childhood trauma is pretty common (failed marriages, for starters, but there are all sorts of other possibilities, abuse, bullying, economic hardship); the ways that marks people who later in life pursue ministry vocations could have significant consequences for them and for the congregations they serve.

Nobody knows the trouble they’ve seen.

Christie24: The idea of being ‘called to ministry’ seems to be based on targeting young men with knowledge of the Bible who are well spoken, and ‘challenging’ them to ‘commit fully to Christ’. This is sometimes done using pressure or manipulation, often when a person is vulnerable & looking for a sense of meaning or validation. They are quickly pushed into the ‘professional ministry’ pipeline, without allowing time & space for them to grow in maturity.

Yes. There is a huge difference between being “called to ministry” and “going into ministry”. One can go into ministry as a career without truly being called by God. In my estimation, many young men take the career path you note without being fully equipped and committed to a pastoral role. Without the spiritual maturity to hold that sacred office, the ‘real’ man will eventually come out. As has been noted before on TWW, some of the best pastors in the American church were called into ministry later in life. Seasoned and tested by secular jobs, life experiences, and a demonstrated relationship with Christ, they fulfill their calling well to love and truly pastor congregations entrusted to them.

Valerie Stewart,

Valerie – stop worriting yourself who else is “narcissistic” – and start looking who nearer home is CODEPENDENT namely with the escape route Jesus has entirely promised in Psalm 1, especially when discipling with the Whole of the Gospel phenomenon. (And agnostics can join CoDA.)

Todd Wilhelm: A prime example of this is the yearly “CrossCon” that takes place over Christmas break. College students are pressured to make a decision to become a missionary.

CrossCon is another avenue by the New Calvinists to indoctrinate young people and motivate them to join their movement. It’s more about spreading reformed theology than Gospel ministry. They need new recruits to accomplish their goal of Calvinizing the American church. CrossCon 2025 speakers include John Piper, David Platt, and Kevin DeYoung … whew, it doesn’t get any more NeoCal than that!

Lowlandseer,

Absolutely. And if he doesn’t want to yet – and / or chooses somewhere else – we should be generous with his space-time let alone ours. And we have to give him room to use his own discretion how to deal with his denomination authorities in proportion to the whole of the real facts (that affected eeveryone) in place.

It’s not a facile matter to ask “why didn’t you speak up sooner yourself” when someone else pulled – to say the least – jerkish and flagitious behaviour (based on their own living a lie) on him in turn, in the past.

I myself was in a pincer movement for 28 years, on top of big chunks of lifetime being strung along by other stringers-along (and saw ill befall my peers during those times).

New Reformed Characters place corporations (interlinked by back scratching) above individuals, and Psalm 1 is about our escaping unequal yoking in Holy Spirit power – the entire purpose of Jesus’ suffering it and ascending.

Grumpy,

Ultra deep bass, mechanised, at hundreds of decibels, punishes the glands near the base of the spine – because it is intended to. (Are the eco contingent going to query their “energy” use?)

The contrast with say Mendelssohn speaks for itself.

Meredith McKinney,

Yes, they vote July 20.

Todd Wilhelm: I believe John Piper has said that unless God tells you otherwise, you should be a missionary.

When I was exploring churches in the mid-Eighties, one of them was a Mega (EV Free Fullerton during the Chuck Swindoll era) with a Singles Group. Like most such groups, they had an embarrassing ritual called “Icebreakers” at the start of their meetings. This icebreaker was the question “If you weren’t you, what would you be?” I was the only non-GUBA (“Grew up Borna Again”) in the group. I was the only one who didn’t answer “Pastor” or “Missionary”.

And every church has at least one busybody with the Gift of Discernment(TM) and a direct private revelation of YOUR Vocation, direct from God. In the RCC, such Prophesying terminology is that YOU Are To Become a Priest. Personal example (from someone who was seriously into Clericalism) was being told that my inability to have a girlfriend (let alone get married) means “GOD IS CALLING YOU TO BECOME A PRIEST!” in so many words.

Todd Wilhelm: College students are pressured to make a decision to become a missionary. I believe John Piper has said that unless God tells you otherwise, you should be a missionary.

P.S. Didn’t Deep Throat Driscoll say something similar? That if you were single, you were supposed to become a Missionary to some faraway land and Witness until the locals put you int the stewpot, Ooga Booga. While the other Christians who WEREN’T failures – the Marrieds – stayed at home to Focus on their Families.

P.P.S. And who reading this blog takes The Pious Piper’s words seriously?

Jeffrey J Chalmers: If Burk Parson was abused as a child, and it contributes to his “issues”, in this case as a pastor, which should be supposedly “contantly being renewed by the Holy Spirit”, how much more are the other kids abused by the Church, and subsequently discarded by the church.. in need of our support???

They’re not Clergy.
They don’t count.

Max: Your psyche was stirred, but the inner man was not.

Yep, you’re right.

Headless Unicorn Guy: That if you were single, you were supposed to become a Missionary to some faraway land and Witness until the locals put you int the stewpot, Ooga Booga. While the other Christians who WEREN’T failures – the Marrieds – stayed at home to Focus on their Families.

But if you don’t want to be so Radical that you end up in the stewpot, do not despair, because there is another way out. You can Just Do Something, which includes the idea of picking someone, anyone, to marry & have kids with. They only need to be an unmarried Christian of the opposite gender who is not related to you. Then you can comfortably sit on the sidelines as your less fortunate brethren walk bravely into the firing line, prepared to give up their very lives for the cause.

Headless Unicorn Guy,

Unfortunately, I think you are correct…. sigh…

Muff Potter: Those kinds of guys don’t feel those kinds of ‘burdens’.

When they are exposed, they cry without tears and move on down the road unrepentant and unchanged.

something I just ran across on YouTube:
WOLF IN SHEPHERD’S CLOTHING
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/O_JmABOFHV0