“Women allege children’s pastor sexually abused them as children”

OK, I’ve heard enough on TWW and elsewhere about children’s “ministry”!! The American church desperately needs to rethink its youth ministry model. You will find no reference in the New Testament to “Children’s Pastor” or “Youth Pastor.” Assigning young men to “disciple” the youth of a church has produced too many horror stories of abuse. The Biblical model is to have young believers mentored by older saints. While there are of course exceptions, I haven’t met too many 20-somethings, fresh out of Bible school or seminary, who were prepared and spiritually capable to lead youth into a relationship with Christ.

elastigirl: If i hear one more time how a church is “heartbroken” …

Church leaders who did not respond as they should have when Mr. Campbell’s victims (children!) cried out against him should be “heartbroken” in jail.

elastigirl: If i hear one more time how a church is “heartbroken” over their

Evan an AI could write better Propaganda Buzzwords.

If their buddy has a big church, which makes them all look good, it is efficient to “tell a lie since God will forgive and understand.”

Message given and received:
CHRISTIANS ARE LIARS.
Goodbye credibility.

Jeffrey J Chalmers: “Christian leaders”

In my 70+ years of doing church in America, I can count on one hand the Christian leaders I knew who modeled Christlikeness in their walk and talk.

Ian Docker: youth ministry

In Southern Baptist life, that usually meant short little Bible studies on Wednesday nights over a pizza, with a cool youth “pastor” … or skating parties … or bowling outings. Nothing too spiritually deep so the kids would keep coming to church.

elastigirl,

I think they’re just ‘heartbroken’ because it makes them look bad.

Max: youth ministry

Feeding prey to the sharks. Children’s and youth church ministries, camps, Wednesday nights, retreats, concerts, etc., seem to be target rich environments set up for predators. Trust, because, well, somehow God set this up.

Max,

While my heart aches for these women & I pray these men and churches get the punishment they deserve please do not lump all who do Children’s Ministry in with these bad actors. My entire ministry career has been spent as a Children’s Pastor/Minister of Faith Formation in several prominent churches. My whole purpose in these ministries has been to shepherd children and their parents into living in the way of Jesus. My mega church in the early 90’s was one of the first to require background checks for volunteers and to set up guidelines for volunteers such as never being in a bathroom stall alone in with a child, installing Dutch doors in preschool room bathrooms, requiring that there always be 2 adults in a classroom with children, etc. We took our mandate to care and protect these children very seriously. There are many good and upstanding youth and children’s ministry staff in the church world.

Ava Aaronson: Trust, because, well, somehow God set this up.

i.e. Trust or God Will Punish YOU.
(When did Jesus start wearing a Punisher T-shirt?)

I have it on good authority that a powerful splinter group of the internet vigilantes called Anonymous are hot on this case. They will patiently wait for Joe and Becky to make mistakes while in hiding and blow their cover. There is abundantly more evidence of their transgressions being uncovered online, including more victims, and evidence of coverups. There is quite a motherload of information stemming from the Camp Bell years. They are finding more recent material that may allow prosecution.

If I were Joe and Becky I would be shaking (or worse) in my boots.

If I were Joe and Becky I would come out of hiding right now and confess and repent in public, before all humankind, and beg the mercy of an angry (but, ahem, a somewhat inattentive and late to the party) God.

Troy: It’s best that mature married adults in their 40’s and older be the ones involved with the kids.

Sound wizdum.

this is OT. and i hate to take away from the victims’ stories. I am having open heart surgery on Tuesday. i am not really scared of the surgery itself but the recovery process. Please pray for me to have patience and understanding with myself. Pray for the professionals and friends who will help me and put up with me.

On another child abuse front, Robert Morris is demanding millions in retirement benefits from Gateway Church … ????!!!!!

Uhhh, they already “retired” you Mr. Morris … sent you packing, sayonara, au revoir, adios, so long, bye-bye! Why should you receive more funds from the hard-working congregation for your disgraced ministry?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpd7Ww3g5Z8

Muff Potter: We will rue the day we ever let ‘AI’ loose.

Worse than distracted drivers using cell phones?! They injure and kill thousands each year.

As a preacher, Joe Campbell must have known this day would eventually come …

“Be sure, your sin will find you out” (Numbers 32:23)

“Whatever is covered up will be found and brought to light” (Luke 8:16)

“There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known” (Matthew 10:26)

etc.

Max: must have known this day would eventually come

Except, historically and statistically speaking, these things are rarely made known.
This day rarely comes.
It hardly ever comes in time to help the victims.
The perps count on a veil of secrecy.

Hell?
I don’t think so.

Troy:
Max,

I think young men in their twenties probably should not be involved in children and youth ministries. They are too tempted to be “pals” with the kids. It’s best that mature married adults in their 40’s and older be the ones involved with the kids.

I was a lifeguard & swim instructor in my teens and early twenties. Worked with kids of all ages. That was the eighties/early nineties. I’m about the same age as these folks.

My 16 year old son is a trained lifeguard/swim instructor. Most of his cadre falls into that age group.

I don’t think age is the issue.

The primary driver is power. The predator will seek soft targets in the right environment.

This church environment created the opportunity. Why the police were not called immediately says a lot. It also says a lot that only one man came forward, there were other boys exposed to this as well. There’s an indictment of toxic patriarchy.

The adults failed these kids and now the kids are adults.

Pastor & Missus Unfunny Clown didn’t just target these victims. Hopefully others will come forward where the statutes are still valid.

Max: On another child abuse front, Robert Morris is demanding millions in retirement benefits from Gateway Church … ????!!!!!

i.e. “I’M ENTITLED! I’M ENTITLED! YOU GOTTA GIMME! YOU GOTTA GIMME!” with the addition of “GAWD SAITH!”

Max: Worse than distracted drivers using cell phones?! They injure and kill thousands each year.

I call em’ phone zombies.
They’re everywhere.

Jack,

“The adults failed these kids”
Hear what you’re saying and sadly have noticed such failures. But we need to recognise that many parents have carried a strong sense of guilt and feelings of parental failure too. The paradox of human trust and wisdom.
Direct and indirect victims deserve some degree of justice because it contributes towards some degree of healing.

Grumpy: We haven’t even got to the Gospel yet. (Proverbs 26:4-5)

Proverbs 26:4 states: “Do not answer a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like him.”

And a concordance from All in the Family:
REVEREND FELCHER: “Do not answer a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like him.”
ARCHIE BUNKER: “And what does that mean?”
REVEREND FELCHER: “Don’t waste your time arguing with an idiot.”