Herbig-Haro 49/50—a towering swirl from a nearby protostar—is (coincidentally) topped with a multi-hued spiral galaxy. Credit: NASA, ESA, CSA, STScI
“A conference is a gathering of people who singly can do nothing but together can decide that nothing can be done.” – Fred Allen (Google AI Overview.)
Today’s post is short and is not flagitious in the least. It is always an exciting time for me when a pastor in one of the conservative Presbyterian circles has an issue that requires an investigation of the Session of the Presbytery. They always use such fascinating words to describe what the pastor in question is or is not accused of. This one also caught my eye because Burk Parsons and I share a surname but are not related as far as I know.
Who is Dr. Burk Parsons?
Parsons is the Senior Pastor of St Andrews Chapel. This is what he says about himself.
In talking with others about Dr. Parsons (who is not flagitious), I was told he is fully employed by St Andrews and Ligonier Ministries. I always wonder how these leaders manage to be engaged in two places while speaking and contributing to various publications. He is a regular at The Gospel Coalition and has written books. He is a devotee of RC Sproul.
In fact, RC Sproul was the church’s first pastor, which began in 1997. Since Sproul founded Ligonier Ministries, it is no wonder the church and Ligonier are closely aligned. Some might think they are one and the same but how could that be?
Saint Andrew’s was founded in 1997 as an independent congregation in the Reformed tradition. In 2023, the congregation was received into the Presbyterian Church in America.
Dr. R.C. Sproul (1939–2017) served as the first minister of preaching and teaching at Saint Andrew’s Chapel. He will be remembered for the many ways he served the church in defending the sufficiency of God’s grace alone for our salvation as well as the trustworthiness of the Word of God. He was a gifted communicator, and his ability to make complex topics easy to understand was evident throughout his teaching and writing. Some of Dr. Sproul’s most well-known books include: The Holiness of God, Chosen by God, and What is Reformed Theology? Dr. Sproul founded Ligonier Ministries, a ministry to help Christians know what they believe, how to live it, and how to share it. More information about the ministry and legacy of Dr. Sproul can be found here.
What did he do? See if you can figure it out.
So, one might think this guy is too busy to get into trouble, but one would be wrong.
He confessed to spiritual abuse in the role of pastor 6 years ago.
MinistryWatch posted Ligonier’s Burk Parsons Under Investigation by Florida Presbytery, where we learned a new vocabulary word.
This is not the first investigation into charges against Parsons by the presbytery. According to minutes of the same presbytery from April 9, 2019, Parsons was also investigated and adjudicated on charges that year. The minutes did not state the nature of the charges, but said they were not found to be “base or flagitious.”
The PCA Book of Church Order requires that a “base or flagitious” matter must result in the minister’s suspension or deposition from office.
The 2019 commission report included statements that the “court accept[ed] as genuine [Teaching Elder] Parsons’ expression of repentance” and approved a censure of admonition.
The letter of admonition was apparently read to Parsons in the presence of the judicial commission, but its contents were not included in the minutes.
Parsons is suspended from pastoral duties until the investigation is completed, so something must have happened.
Minstrywatch posted Burk Parsons’s Suspended from Pastoral Duties at St. Andrew’s Chapel and added important information.
In an email to the congregation, the board of elders, known as a session, of St. Andrew’s said it is supporting Parsons through the trial process.
“Please know the Session is united in supporting Dr. Parsons as he goes through this judicial process. He has demonstrated to us a willingness to cooperate with the commission and learn from this experience. He maintains a heart of gratitude to the Lord in the midst of this trial,” the email stated.
…MinistryWatch reached out to Ligonier Ministries about whether it intended to make any adjustment or suspension of Parsons’ duties in light of the indictment, but did not receive a reply before the time of publication. An archived version of Ligonier’s National Conference webpage showed Parsons was scheduled to be a speaker. The latest iteration does not feature Parsons as a speaker at the National Conference in April.
Was there financial mismanagement?
I found this statement by Ministrywatch fascinating. Ligonier Ministries, of which Parsons is a Teaching Fellow, appears to be suspect in the finance department.
In the MinistryWatch database, Ligonier Ministries has a transparency grade of D because it does not file a Form 990 with the IRS nor publicly post its audited financial statements. It has a donor confidence score of 35 out of 100, meaning donors should withhold giving.
Maybe it has to do with his view of what constitutes a pastor. (Read this if you read anything.)
This video of the 2024 Ligonier Conference features Parsons and another well-compensated pastor, Steve Lawson. Listen to Parsons from mark 24.26-31.55.
One of the main reasons that pastors leave ministry is because of people having expectations, just as you were talking about, Bob, that are not rooted in Scripture. Pastors are not administrators. They are not fundmentally your counselor. They are not fundamenatally the social organizer of the church or of the community, Pastors are not your mother, your father, or your best frriend. Pastors are not deacons. Much of the work we expectour pastors to do is the work of the diacinate. So many of the things that we expect of our pastors are not the primary work of the pastor. …What can people do? They can pray for their pastors, pay them well, take care of their families, allow them to be properly cared for so that they are truly free from the cares of having to take care of their families. Pay them well, compeensate the mwell, love them, encourage them, and quit causing trouble.
Final thoughts:
- What does a pastor like Parsons do besides getting paid lots of money?
- I guess he didn’t have to worry about taking care of his family since he’s got his church members/deacons and elders doing that.
- There is no question he’s miffed off a bunch of people from his members, staff, and the Session.
- He’s miffed them off more than once.
- I find it amusing that flagitious Steve Lawson was at the Ligonier Conference, sharing his wisdom with Parsons and the rest of the boys.
- I bet he is into pastoral authority at every turn. (Folks, do not sign this membership contract unless you like to get beat over the head.)
- Is it more holy to use an outdated word like flagitious rather than corrupt or rotten to the core?
- “Hey, Session, how many times does a guy need a Session before the boys of the Session realize they’ve got a problem?”
“Is it more holy to use an outdated word like flagitious rather than corrupt or rotten to the core?”
“Shamefully wicked” is a better fit for some of these characters. Things are what they are, no matter what name you give them. A rose by any other name …
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Apparently one of the earliest uses of flagitious in English is in the Wycliffe Bible 2 Maccabees 7 where it is used to describe the king who tortures to death 7 brothers and their mother for not breaking the Jewish laws.
Erp(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
On the one hand a rule book says not to break ordination vows about their attitude.
Then Ligioniers (another of those faux gormless round tables) publicly blame the expectations of pew goers and not of insincere pastors (who mispreach to support their misstance) and tell pew goers who couldn’t have but not themselves to quit trouble making.
This worries me because R C Sproul was one of those being promoted bigly in Britain.
Michael in UK(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
“Pastors are not administrators,” he says, followed by a list of other things that “pastors are not,” including responsible for their own families.
So what are pastors, according to Mr. Parsons’s understanding? What are they good for?
Cynthia W.(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
“What can people do? … pay them well, take care of their families, allow them to be properly cared for so that they are truly free from the cares of having to take care of their families. Pay them well, compensate them well …” (Burk Parsons)
To which Paul responds: “If someone does not provide for his own relatives, and especially the members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.” (1 Timothy 5:8)
Looks like Mr. Parsons may have a touch of prosperity doctrine on him. His comment comes across “OK pewsitters, don’t cause me any trouble … just keep your mouth shut, don’t complain about me not doing anything pastoral, and dig deeper in your pockets so I can live financially free while you work your behinds off to support me and mine.” But Paul reminds Burk “If you don’t work, you don’t eat” (2 Thessalonians 3:10).
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
He’s complaining about people having unrealistic expectations of their pastors while passing off the responsibility of caring for his own family to others? Basically, “I’m the pastor. I’ve got more important things to do than provide for my family!” You couldn’t make some of this stuff up.
Arlo(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
And what would those “things” be exactly? Preach a couple sermonettes per week from a canned text? There’s been an outbreak of “pastors” in the American church who don’t know the names of their members, who never call them nor visit their homes, who don’t check on the sick in hospitals, who don’t pray with the dying in nursing homes, who don’t officiate funerals, and assorted other pastoral things. Apparently, they are just too important and crazy busy to do the right thing, but they find plenty of time to golf, travel, text their lives away, and hang out with their dudebros at the coffee shop. Yep, there are lots of “pastors” who don’t resemble the title, nor meet the Biblical qualifications for that sacred office. There’s a shortage of Christlikeness in the pulpit these days. So why are we financing such characters?! Touch not mine anointed? Nah, they need to be touched alright; they are more annoying than anointed! A genuine pastor has become a rare and endangered species it appears.
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
I know nothing about the pastor or his problems. I think it’s ironic that the place where the guy preaches is called St. Andrews Chapel. I’m sure it’s because of St. Andrews, Scotland, with the über-Reformed connection to the Calvinist Scottish Kirk and Knox. However, I think it’s highly ironic that the Calvinist/Reformed folks wouldn’t care a fig about honoring the person St. Andrews is named for – the actual Saint Andrew. You don’t have to be Catholic or Orthodox to consider that those specific people called “saints” deserve honor at the very least because they are our older brothers and sisters in the Lord, and were observed to actually be living Christlike lives; many of them gave up their lives for him. Saint Andrew himself was crucified, some sources say on an x-shaped cross.
D.
dainca(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Cynthia W.,
“So what are pastors, according to Mr. Parsons’s understanding? What are they good for?”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
well, some are working through a big stack of books so they can effectively guide their congregations and defend sound doctrine on how many angels are dancing on the head of a pin.
so, there’s that…
elastigirl(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Max,
Didn’t Lawson’s previous church indicate that he only preached and wouldn’t perform any weddings/funerals, etc? It would explain how he (and Burk as well) are able to hold so many positions in different places/states, write their books and travel to all these conferences. No need to bog themselves down with the responsibilities of being an actual elder in their church. That’s quite the racket they’ve got going on
Arlo(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
“Burk Parsons May Not Be Flagitious But He’s in Trouble Once Again”
++++++++++++++++
an incident with the flannelgraph, perhaps? or flatulence?
elastigirl(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
The latter more than the former, I would think. To the extent a congregation needs guidance, common sense should suffice.
Cynthia W.(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Each patriarch there, of whom Burk is the foremost, gets paid a seperate 6 digit salary from each “ministry” that R.C created, that shares space on its small campus. This includes St. Andrews Chapel, Ligonier, Reformation Bible College, and TableTalk magazine.
Captainpike(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Cynthia W.,
actually, i think the last thing the world needs is another christian book.
the last thing christians need is influencers on a drip-feed of insularity,
making an art of taking common sense & turning it inside-out like a paper cup
and calling it whatever the current christianese buzzword is for supercilious-as-sanctified.
i imagine we agree.
elastigirl(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Yes.
Cynthia W.(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
… a racket that exists because gullible pewsitters finance it. It’s called the Jesus Racket which only benefits imposters in the pulpit. Cults of personality with “Christian” celebrities prosper where Biblical illiterates hang out.
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
elastigirl,
‘The last thing the world needs is another Christian book’
Perhaps this could be said too of some Christian book shops.
Goodness me, I only thought real estate agents plastered
their smiling faces everywhere.
Ian Docker(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
I was thinking more about the golf course actually…
Ras al Ghul(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Captainpike,
“Each patriarch there…”
++++++++++++
in the video clip?
elastigirl(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Extorting money from their PewPeons, of course.
“Most cults are started so the Cult Leader can (1) Get Rich, (2) Get Laid, or (3) BOth.’
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Pastors?
Pastor Niemoller, now there was the real deal.
He stood up against the Nazis and wouldn’t back down.
He wound up in Dachau for his courage.
The mountebanks and diletantes of today who call themselves ‘pastors’ and howl about ‘persecution’ make me wanna laugh.
Muff Potter(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
dainca,
Here is a brief outline of Andrew’s tenuous connection with Scotland.
https://www.scran.ac.uk/scranalogue/2020/11/27/saint-andrew-patron-saint-of-scotland/
Lowlandseer(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Lowlandseer,
I should also say that the first martyr of the Scottish Reformation was 27 year old Patrick Hamilton, a Lutheran, whose gruesome death at the stake is recorded in Knox’s History of the Reformation, perpetrated by those very clerics who worshipped the relics of those so called saints whom you think we should revere.
Lowlandseer(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
I realize that I haven’t had the same experiences many community members have had, but I am becoming increasingly uncomfortable with terms like pewsitter and PewPeon.
I understand that there is a significant power difference between church leadership and church members in many churches. However, I don’t believe that it is productive to use either a passive or derogatory term to describe a congregation.
The people in the church are there because they choose to be. Different people have different reasons: some want membership in a community, some want the prestige of being a member of an exclusive community, and some want salvation. Whatever the reason, they are there because they want something.
While it might be unpopular, in many instances reported in TWW, members of the congregations: 1. Willfully ignore red flags. 2. Fail to provide oversight. 3. Fail to report abuse and crime to the proper authority and withhold information when questioned. 4. Fail to require civil and legal accountability when laws have been broken.
As part of the larger TWW discussion, it might be valuable to consider the behavior and dynamics of the congregations that enabled the abuse or prevented legal and civil justice from occurring.
davewis(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
“Ligonier Ministries has a transparency grade of D because it does not file a Form 990 with the IRS nor publicly post its audited financial statements. It has a donor confidence score of 35 out of 100, meaning donors should withhold giving.*
It is unconscionable for these large parachurch organizations (e.g. 9Marks) to avoid the Form 990 filing requirement by claiming integrated auxiliary status. I guarantee that the majority of Ligonier’s financial support comes from public donations, conference fees, and book sales and NOT from their local supporting church. They should not be allowed to “hide under mama’s skirt” to avoid financial transparency.
Dale Rudiger(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
I was a Southern Baptist for 70+ years. As a traditional (non-Calvinist) Southern Baptist, I joined the Done* ranks when New Calvinism began to sweep through SBC ranks and gained control of all SBC entities. (*I’m done with SBC, but not done with Jesus).
Southern Baptists have been called “People of the Word.” During my long tenure in SBC, it was my observation that few church members actually read Scripture as a discipline. In the SBC churches I attended, most members were Biblically illiterate. I taught Sunday School for over 40 years and often saw long-time church members struggling to find passages or comment on subject material. If asked why they attend church, they would refer to a long-time family association, their friends go there, it’s a good place for the kids to be, etc. I suppose “community” is the primary reason for membership in SBC (and other) churches. I have often wondered what percentage of members in the American church are actually born-again Christians … the institutional church could very well be one of the greatest mission fields for evangelism on the planet.
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
We sure are certain that our way is the one Jesus wanted and everyone else in the many thousands of denominations are all wrong. I take the position of NT Wright…Jesus wants us to be unified. I love what we teach the kids in confirmation. “This is what we believe when it comes to communion or baptism. Are the Baptists, etc down the street still Christians if they don’t see it our way? The answer the kids are to geive is , “Yes.”
dee(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Howling about “PERSECUTION!!!!!!” whenever they hear “Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry CHRISTmas!!!”
Did you know Syria is well on its way to becoming “Christian-free” as the Third Reich tried to become “Jew-free”? Not because of any top-down decree but because it’s the only thing every militia faction that’s left can agree on.
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
i.e. Romish Popery who really worships Satan under the names Nimrod, Semiramis, and Tammuz?
The Treaty of Westphalia ended the Reformation Wars in 1648 — supposedly.
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Doesn’t that Jerk with his personal “Kirk” who keeps trying to take over Moscow, Idaho also have a thing about “St Andrews”?
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
davewis,
Maybe self decided “pew peon”? Yes, you are correct, ultimately, the “pew peon” has made his or her decision to attend/submit to the specific “person/doctrine”..
Jeffrey J Chalmers(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
The idea behind canonized Saints is that they are officially-recognized Heroes of the Faith.
Granted, when you have thousands of them accumulated over 2000 years some are going to be sketchy, some urban legends, some just head-scratching WEIRD, but…
People need mythical heroes to look up to (and to function as role models). If you don’t give them good mythical heroes, they will find and create their own — Paris Hilton, Charlie Sheen, Kym Kardashian, Sexy Red, that Anime Waifu, Elliot Rogers, Andrew Tate, Johnny Somali, that other Anime Waifu, Jean Calvin, Jonathan Edwards, Kenneth Copeland, Doug Wilson, John Piper…
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
davewis,
“…terms like pewsitter and PewPeon…”
++++++++++++++++++++
I appreciated your comment. oftentimes “pewsitter” is just the quickest go-to synonym for attender or member, with a neutral intention.
on the other hand, if it takes a village (or church) to destroy (by degrees) one of its members, seems to me some derision is understandable, & i’d argue acceptable.
many people here have been destroyed to some degree by a church. the passivity of the pewsitters/members/attenders is a big factor.
really, their passivity is extreme self-centeredness.
they don’t want to rock the boat of what’s good for them.
since they’ve been conditioned to be paranoid about ‘gossip’ and ‘judging’, they do/say nothing when the actions/doctrines of a church harm people.
their priority is their status before God at the expense of their fellow human being.
this is but one facet of christian hypocrisy, and i truly wonder how long the cosmos can tolerate it.
what is considered polite discourse is different depending on where you go.
for my friends in England, the content of their communication is guided by their highest value of not making someone uncomfortable in any way (perhaps at the expense of truth).
for my aunt in Brooklyn, polite discourse is blunt, direct, & sarcastic — it is truthful, not malicious, & as far as she’s concerned she’s being perfectly polite & there’s no reason not to say what she has to say.
so, my long-winded take is i think we can let people communicate in their own way.
elastigirl(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
In the paragraph above, twice he says that we need to “pay them well” of our pastors. So we need to give, and live by faith, even if that giving is sacrificial on our part, but a pastor needs to have plenty of money in the bank so he doesn’t have to worry about how he is going to pay his bills (i.e. live by faith) like the common folk. And that is the job of his congregation to make sure of that. But yet Paul (Acts 18:1-3)
JJallday(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Oh yeah, they are quick to quote what Paul said (or a twisted version of it), but don’t follow his example of how to do ministry. There ain’t a tentmaker in that Ligonier bunch on stage … they have a gift of gab so they don’t have to actually work. And My People love it so.
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
The American church is in desperate need of a tribe of Nathans bold enough to stick a finger in David’s face and shout “You are the man!” (not in a dudebro way).
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
“allow them to be properly cared for so that they are truly free from the cares of having to take care of their families. Pay them well, compeensate the mwell, love them, encourage them, and quit causing trouble.”
Not a very good sentence, but I would say that the “free from the cares of having to take care of their families” phrase is just another way of saying “make sure you pay them well”, which is then emphasized in the next sentence.
Neil Cameron(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
I guess what is causing me to wonder is the term or idea of passivity. It often appears to me as active ‘bullying’ and self-censorship of themselves and others with the goal of creating an in-group who talk and behave in a similar manner and an out-group which they can look down on.
I might be in an unusual position. I was the primary caregiver for our girls. My wife had a well-paying job that required long hours during set times. I had more flexibility, so I shifted from a traditional male job to contract work, which was more flexible.
It is amazing how many people, mostly ‘traditional’ women, have told me I don’t belong. As soon as they realize I don’t care what they think, they will launch into how wrong/sinful/selfish my wife is for not taking care of me and the kids.
Admittedly, I have a bit of a chip on my shoulder this evening. A few hours ago, a ‘church lady’ just yelled at me because my daughter and I went straight from soccer practice to Wednesday night Lenten church and confirmation class. Apparently, it is unseemly for a girl to show up to church with sweaty hair and sweatpants over her uniform.
FWIW, I am in no way implying that I am a victim.
I am completely happy with my life. In the morning, I get my wife off to work (my main role these days is making sure her coffee cup is full, finding her keys, tablet, and phone, and using the lint roller to remove dog hair) and getting my youngest daughter off to school (again finding keys, laptop, and phone and double-checking her after-school schedule).
My little flexible contracting business has grown to 20 engineers and 10 support staff. I get to spend the day working with them. All of us are remote, so I try to give them the same flexibility that helped me start my family 20-some years ago.
After school, I got to pick up my daughter from soccer practice. To save time, we ate dinner in the car at a wayside overlooking the Mississippi River. My wife packed leftover lasagna and roasted brussel sprouts in those goofy little containers with the individual sections where the food doesn’t touch. It is her way of showing she cares when she can’t be there. My daughter and I sat and talked about her day.
Our youngest is a little mini-me… sometimes I worry I put too much pressure on her…
At church, I sat in with the parents while the kids sat together in front. I got to watch my little girl giggle with her friends like a happy and healthy 16-year-old and flirt with a potential boyfriend. She might be serious a lot of the time… but she is still a girl who knows how to have fun.
So, no Karen, I don’t care that my daughter showed up to church in sweats with wet hair.
davewis(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
davewis,
how rotten. yes, nothing passive about what you describe. gahd, i could cut them down to size with perfect words for the occasion.
i marvel at how christian culture regresses *a good many* adults down to 12 years old.
very sorry you’ve encountered these things.
so, in understanding your original comment, are you saying that since being part of a church congregation is an active thing (whether behaving honorably or like insecure cruel manipulative self-centered children),
as such we might as well use terms that convey ‘active player’? (seems completely fair to me)
elastigirl(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
To be honest, I don’t really know what I mean. I have had a complicated and often angry relationship with the Church.
At first, I was drawn into the story of Robert Morris finally getting held accountable for what he did.
Then I started thinking about how my church is changing. Between 2020 and 2024, donations are up 50%, weekly attendance is up 30%, but confirmation class size is down 40%, and weddings have gone from 35-40 a year to 1.
To make a long story short, several of the smaller/rural churches are struggling and their members are transferring to our larger suburban church. But still, participation has fallen sharply among young people, especially young women.
Now, I guess I am trying to make sense of what is happening. Writing helps me think, especially when it triggers discussion from people with different experiences and perspectives.
davewis(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
1 I like “pew goer” as that is what the fact of the matter is, whatever our varied status or activity. I’ve never volunteered, never signed anything, always been informally welcomed as best they knew how despite being a “thinker”. I never begrudged anyone their level or type of commitment (though my mother was quick to detect snobs).
2 I’m still trying, but my skill isn’t good enough yet . . .
Michael in UK(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
And did we each thirst to put together our own beliefs from Scripture meanings, like the “noble” Bereans? I’m exceptionally fortunate that my parents never thought the clergy were there to control our minds. Sometimes I’ve put denomination hopping to good effect by two or three timing, if I had the energy – it does complete one’s perspective. One of my movements was careful not to “involve” some of us in its second-tier operations (I taught myself to signal that I am not “material”), and doesn’t care how noisily we drop out.
Michael in UK(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
It’s amazing how many churchgoers run out to buy the latest “Christian” book without ever immersing themselves into a disciplined study of The Book. Personally, I would rather hear what God has to say to me through Bible passages (He’s still speaking, you know) … than to read what the Ligonier Legion tell me I should know.
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
davewis,
“Writing helps me think, especially when it triggers discussion from people with different experiences and perspectives.”
++++++++++++++++++
glad you’re here.
indeed. i’ve had numerous ‘pebbles in my shoes’ for as long as i can remember… a sense that something’s really off. writing out my thoughts in dialogue here for many years has helped me clarify so many things.
religion is really good at keeping things nebulous. ultimately, for crowd control.
in the pursuit of objectivity, it’s deeply consoling to see the sources of internal conflict in clear focus. just objects sitting on a table in good light, plain as day.
and to call horsesh|t what it is.
elastigirl(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
That’s because, when it comes to much of the American church, something’s really off! It’s high time for churchgoers to pause and ask themselves “What is church and what isn’t?”. A close examination of the Biblical model for doing church in the 1st century vs. what we call church in the 21st century would be a good place to start.
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Ironically, it’s ‘Romish Popery’ that is in the forefront of championing human rights and being more relevant to human needs.
The Evangelical Christian Church lags way behind in this arena.
Muff Potter(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Lowlandseer,
What Dee wrote in answer to you. It’s a sad and dismal reality that Christians have committed acts, especially toward one another, that certainly grieve Jesus and negate our witness.
D.
dainca(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Just be careful you don’t succumb to “Year Zero Syndrome” like the Wahabi did in Islam.
Because One True Ways have a way of taking you over.
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
But tunnel vision on The Book can turn you into an MP3 playback with nothing original that’s you.
You can become so CHRISTIAN you cease to be human, so Spiritual you cease to be physical.
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
And there is no One (besides yourself) whose Way is as True as your own. “The Church of Me and You and I’m not too sure about you.”
Cynthia W.(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Please do a follow up on the Joe Campbell situation. Not able find anything new on this situation and its been two months
Casey(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Like I’ve said before, in the last 500 years of church history (especially in the last 100), the Pope and Reformers have both switched sides. Now the Gnostic Woo-Woo and Priestcraft come from the Truly Reformed and Born-Again Bible-Believers.
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
AKA the theoretical ultimate end state of Protestantism, the One True Church of One.
A.W.Pink is probably the best-known name who actually achieved that end state.
Except it’s not ONE True Church of One, but millions of Once True Churches of One, constantly at each others’ throats. “DIE, HERETIC!!!!!!!”
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Or they’re claiming to be a church. Such a neato keen tax dodge. So transparent.
Muslin, fka Dee Holmes(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
The real question is what are they dancing to?
1) The Blue Danube (Strauss)
2) In the Mood (Glenn Miller)
3) Disco Inferno (The Trammps)
I vote for Disco Inferno
Muff Potter(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Muff Potter,
“Disco Inferno (The Trammps)”
+++++++++++++
well, naturally. a self-evident truth if ever there was one.
elastigirl(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
I currently go to saint Andrews in Sanford not a member. There many church choices here. I would go to a another church. However the acts 29 network has influenced the churches in the area. There even an LCMS church in the network here. Parsons doesn’t like he sermons posted online. Sadly. The churches are not very good. Sadly
MJL(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Sorry for the typos. I was commenting on my phone. There are not many church choices here. Parsons said something that I don’t like about the poor recently in A sermon right before right before he suspended. I can’t remember the exact quote. He also has said that he does like to give out his phone number to anyone. This is concerning for a Pastor. Like I said I would love to find anther church. I have visited many churches in area. I am reformed and I wish Saint Andrews would split into smaller churches. I don’t see that happening any time soon. The one reason I go there is the Sunday School Classes are solid. Like I said even the LCMS churches have been influenced by acts 29 network. I think I have signed 2 covenant membership covenants in the Orlando Area. Before I knew what they were. Those churches were LCMS churches. I left one them because A doctrinal dispute. The other one is a long drive. I don’t recommend any one to move to the Orlando area because the churches are lousy. I can’t just move. I have been involved in a family business here.
MJL(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
“Disco Duck (Rick Dees)”?
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Oh, how my heart breaks at so many of these accusatory, slanderous comments regarding pastors. So many critics with no understanding of the burden your pastors bear for the responsibility of your souls. So many misunderstandings, misinterpretations, unloving, unsympathetic hearts here. Oh, my heart breaks for Pastor Parsons. If there truly is sin to confess and repent, let it be done! But if this is a witch-hunt because people are looking to skewer a faithful minister, then may the ones with malice and discontent be judged by our Lord and Savior, who has given the care of your souls to faithful ministers!
Hebrews 13:17-18 “Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you. Pray for us, for we are sure that we have a clear conscience, desiring to act honorably in all things.”
SoliDeoGloria(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
SoliDeoGloria,
Yes. Sigh.
Donner(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Solid, Bible-believing churches and Bible-teaching pastors still do exist. But they are under intense attack both from within and without, and it seems their numbers are dwindling. Yet the Lord has said that He knows those who are His, and He will never leave or forsake them. Oh, that we would pray to have the strength to stand before the Son of Man! And pray for one another, considering how to stimulate each other to love and good deeds. I must redouble my efforts to pray for the pastor.
Donner(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Thank you for allowing me to comment.
First I would like to say we do expect more out of our pastor’s than what the Bible tells us.
Pastors are to give us the teaching of the word. Many of the other task are for deacons.
Being an adminstrator really should not be their job. It is not what they learn in school.
Churches should lower what they pay pastors , and take the money saved to hire accountants and bookkeepers.
Jason Turnley(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
SoliDeoGloria,
I appreciate your Christian heart in wanting to think the best of Parsons. I think most Christians have the same disposition.
If, however, you knew Parsons and felt his boot on your head like I have, you would not be as charitable.
I am personally aware of dozens of people he has abused through the years. Women as well as men. I have suffered abuse from him several times through the years.
The young man he physically grabbed and threw into a lake as punishment for smoking a cigarette in around 2018 is a good example of his harsh nature. This an other abuses he confessed to in 2019 should have been grounds for his removal from ministry. He had friends on the commission who tried him. This is likely one of the reasons he was let off with a slap on the wrist.
I pray Our God will bless Burk Parsons and protect the sheep from further harm from his very harsh and overbearing nature.
Tommy Aquinus(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Tommy Aquinus,
If you would be willing to discuss some of these actions, I’m sure the readers would be interested. It is hard to understand the abuse without examples. Thank you for the one you provided. I would be interested in learning more of you experience as well. I am so sorry.
dee(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)