“I fully cooperated with this investigation and have pleaded not guilty to the charge against me. As a Christian, a (former) seminary professor, and now a pastor, my integrity is everything to me and I will cling to that integrity and seek to be vindicated by God and man,” Matthew Queen, May 22, 2024
On January 8, 2025, the final Presentence Investigation Report for the Matthew Queen case (prepared by the U.S. Probation Office) was filed with the Court. The report “recommended a variance of no incarceration, one year probation, and a $2,000 fine.”
Pre-sentence reports are recommendations, nothing more and nothing less. Judges in the US have absolute discretion in their sentencing decisions, so long as they don’t go below statutory minimums or above statutory maximums. It’s most likely that any given judge will follow the pre-sentence recommendations, as they’re supposed to be an impartial assessment of the most appropriate sentence, given the facts of the case. But they’re not required to do so.” Source
Below is the latest legal document filed in the Matthew Queen case. It appears the U.S. Department of Justice has conceded that Queen will not receive a prison sentence, but they are asking for a period of up to 6 months of home confinement. The sentencing of Queen is scheduled to take place on Wednesday, March 5, 2025.
Admittedly, I am biased. I detest all who sexually abuse people. I also detest those who cover up sexual abuse, and if you’re a member of the clergy, I hold a special contempt for you. Dr. Matthew Queen is fortunate I am not his judge because I wouldn’t need a presentence investigation report to guide me in sentencing him. Save your money, spare me the investigation. Queen would be sentenced to the maximum five years in the Federal Penitentiary, he wouldn’t be released from the clink until March 4, 2030.
I attended two trials of Tom Chantry, a Baptist preacher who “liked” boys. In the jury selection at one of the trials, the Judge asked if there was anyone who thought they couldn’t be impartial. A man in the jury pool said he would be unable to be impartial. The Judge asked him why. He responded that “he believed there was a special place in Hell for child abusers.” The Judge dismissed him. That man spoke my language. Needless to say, I pray Judge Kaplan sees fit to at least sentence Queen to what the U.S. Department of Justice recommended, including up to 6 months of home confinement.
For all the Southern Baptist Ph.D’s, pastors, college professors, and college presidents who wrote Judge Kaplan, imploring him to go easy on Dr. Queen and implying the guy was nearly the second man in history to live a sinless life, I call BS. All I’m saying is a man doesn’t live a life of truth-telling and suddenly flush his ethics down the toilet when facing interviews with the FBI and the Justice Department. Let me quote from the U.S. Department of Justice document above:
Dear Judge Kaplan: The Government respectfully submits this letter in advance of the March 5, 2025 sentencing of Matthew Queen (the “defendant”). The defendant made false statements to the Government in connection with a federal sexual abuse investigation. In addition, he falsified a document purporting to be contemporaneous notes that tracked and corroborated his false statements.
On January 26, 2023, Employee-1 and Queen met with a member of the Seminary’s executive staff (“Employee-2”). (PSR ¶ 10). During that meeting, in Queen’s presence, Employee-2 directed Employee-1, in sum and substance, to destroy the Document. Queen heard Employee-2 direct Employee-1 to make the Document “go away.”
In May 2023, after the Seminary informed the Government about these events, the Government interviewed witnesses from the Seminary—including Queen—in Fort Worth, Texas. Queen was interviewed by the Government on May 23, 2023 at which time he falsely stated that he had not heard Employee-2 direct Employee-1 to destroy the Document during the January 26, 2023 meeting. The Government made clear during the interview that it did not credit these false statements. Days later, on May 26, 2023, Queen told another Seminary employee (“Employee-3”) that he had located a notebook in his office which contained purportedly contemporaneous notes of the January 26, 2023 meeting with Employee-1 and Employee-2. The notes were false, however. They were falsely dated and falsely stated that on January 26, 2023, Employee-2 and Employee-1 had discussed providing the Document to a different department at the Seminary, but omitted the fact that Employee-2 had directed Employee-1 to destroy the Document. Queen turned over the notes to Employee-3 to produce to the Government.
The following month, on June 20, 2023, Queen met again with the Government in New York City. During that meeting, Queen initially maintained—falsely—that he had written the notes contemporaneously to the January 26, 2023 meeting. Later in the same meeting, he amended his position and falsely stated that he had instead written the notes in April 2023. Queen did not admit during that meeting that he had actually written the notes after his May 23, 2023 Government Interview. The next day, Queen testified under oath in the grand jury about his participation in the January 26, 2023 meeting with Employee-1 and Employee-2. Queen testified that during the meeting, he had in fact heard Employee-2 instruct Employee-1 to make the Document “go away.”
Following his testimony, Queen met with the Government again and was questioned further about his purportedly contemporaneous notes. Queen then finally admitted that he had written the notes just prior to turning them over to be produced to the Government.
At the plea hearing, the defendant admitted to the following conduct: A few days after an interview with the government officials on May 23, 2023, I gave copies of notes to others. The notes were dated January 26, indicating that they were made contemporaneously with the January 26, [20]23, conversation. I knew that the notes were to be forwarded to the government pursuant to a November. . . 2022 subpoena. The notes were not made contemporaneously . . . and were written after the May 23, 2023, interview with the government and were forwarded to the government in June 2023. During an interview on June 20, 2023 with government officials, I falsely stated when I wrote the notes about the January 26, 2023, conversation. Later, I acknowledged that I lied because the notes were written a few days after . . . the May 23, 2023, interview with the government. I knew lying to the government was wrong and illegal.
The defendant made various objections to the PSR, all of which were rejected by Probation. In particular, Probation concluded that each of the defendant’s objections to the PSR appeared designed to minimize his conduct in the offense (PSR at 21-22).
Queen’s criminal conduct was serious. Queen repeatedly made false statements during meetings with the Government about events that he knew were pertinent to an ongoing federal investigation regarding sexual abuse. He did so despite being warned at every meeting that lying to federal law enforcement officers was a federal felony offense and despite being given multiple opportunities to correct his account. But Queen’s conduct was even more egregious due to his attempts to corroborate his false account. And after being confronted by the Government during his initial interview, Queen created false, purportedly contemporaneous notes consistent with his false statements. Ultimately, the defendant only came clean about the events he actually witnessed— specifically, the January 26, 2023 meeting with Employee-1 and Employee-2—when he was brought to New York to testify before the grand jury. And he only professed the truth about when he prepared the false notes after he testified. In other words, this was not a one-time event or momentary lapse in judgment: the defendant’s criminal deceit spanned several months and involved many decisions made by the defendant, including the defendant’s decision to affirmatively create a false document to corroborate his false story.
In my ongoing effort to expose SBC leaders who have supported the lies and attempted cover-up of sexual abuse by an employee of SWBTS, namely Dr. Matthew Queen, I wrote the following email:
To date I have not received a single response from any of the approximately 60 employees of Grace Baptist Church!
Comments
U.S. Department of Justice Assails Matthew Queen’s Character, Requests the Court Impose a “Period of Home Confinement.” — 51 Comments
Keep up the good work, Todd. These leaders need to be exposed. And whatever happened with the Tom Chantry case, by the way?
Thanks. Chantry was sentenced to 24 years but got out after about 2 years on an appeal. It could have been retried, but the primary witness, maybe 2 witnesses, I can’t recall, did not want to go through a third trial.
my integrity is everything to me.
This was yet another McQueen lie!
From Wiki- Integrity: Integrity is the quality of being honest and showing a consistent and uncompromising adherence to strong moral and ethical principles and values.
Not only did he lie repeatedly to federal officers, he lied to protect others who had also committed crimes – sexual abuse and destroying evidence.
I would go along with home confinement, as long as he moves to this address: 1 Glen Ray Rd, Alderson, WV 24910. That would be the address of a federal women’s prison camp.
Yeah. I looked up federal prisons. I wanted to find a place for him to live as close to NC as possible so his wife and kids could visit him on the weekends….. maybe.
Looking at this from afar, from across an ocean and half a dozen time zones, it still feels like MQ is the fall guy here – though he still does deserve what’s happening to him here.
He probably thought he had to lie to the investigation because not doing so would have entailed admitting to the unwritten – and probably spoken only behind closed doors – policy of the seminary regarding reports of sexual assault:
– shame and/or bully the female¹ victim into withdrawing the report
– discipline the female for participating in fornication – who knows how unwilling she really was?
– give the man a slap on the wrist. We need manly alpha males as preachers after all.
—
¹ and if you’re the male victim of sexual assault, shame on you! You’re no better than a woman then.
Thinking about the initial decision (to attempt to destroy evidence), it would appear that Churchill’s maxim (paraphrased), that in wartime “the truth must be protected with a bodyguard of lies”, has been adopted as a fundamental operating principle in parts of self-described Christianity.
“A man in the jury pool said he would be unable to be impartial. The Judge asked him why. He responded that “he believed there was a special place in Hell for child abusers.” The Judge dismissed him.”
Matt Blunt, former Missouri Governor, wanted child sex abusers executed. He proposed legislation that would grant the death penalty to such criminals, but it failed to pass. Seems to me that when Jesus said they should have a millstone tied around their neck and tossed into the sea was also a proponent of the death penalty for those who sexually abused children.
“Admittedly, I am biased. I detest all who sexually abuse people. I also detest those who cover up sexual abuse, and if you’re a member of the clergy, I hold a special contempt for you.”
Gus: Looking at this from afar, from across an ocean and half a dozen time zones, it still feels like MQ is the fall guy here – though he still does deserve what’s happening to him here.
I agree with you, Gus. The main man in this cover up is Heath Woolman. He is the individual that told Terri Stovall to make her document “go away.”
– shame and/or bully the female¹ victim into withdrawing the report
– discipline the female for participating in fornication – who knows how unwilling she really was?
– give the man a slap on the wrist. We need manly alpha males as preachers after all.
McQueen served at SWBTS for a total of 13 years. For the first eight years, the now infamous Paige Patterson was the president of the seminary.
The decades of abuse in the SBC was publicly exposed 3 1/2 years before McQueen lied and created the false document.
He left SWBTS to be pastor of a church one month after he lied.
IMO, He’s just as guilty as all of the rest that were involved in abusing and covering up abuse.
“I detest all who sexually abuse people. I also detest those who cover up sexual abuse, and if you’re a member of the clergy, I hold a special contempt for you.”
Those who carry church leadership responsibility must live according to higher standards. Scripture is clear that “clergy” will be judged accordingly (1 Timothy 3:1-10; James 3:1). You can’t outrun God at the Judgment Seat – He sees what you’ve done, who you’ve protected and covered, who you’ve passed along to unsuspecting churches. It’s spiritually stupid to think you can get away with such things … to think more highly of the Inner Ring, dudebros, and good ‘ole boy networks than what the Creator of the Universe requires of you.
Nancy2(aka Kevlar): McQueen served at SWBTS for a total of 13 years. For the first eight years, the now infamous Paige Patterson was the president of the seminary.
I’m sure Mr. Queen learned a lot from “Break her down” Patterson.
I agree with you about Woolman, but I think McQueen is just as guilty.
He threw the victim to the wolves, too.
McQueen lied to protect his friends and mentors, then almost immediately found a new job and moved 1,000 miles. Hmmmmm.
Nancy2(aka Kevlar): I agree with you about Woolman, but I think McQueen is just as guilty.
You’re right. And your comment further up – “The decades of abuse in the SBC was publicly exposed 3 1/2 years before McQueen lied and created the false document” is an excellent point.
Nancy2(aka Kevlar): lied to protect his friends and mentors, then almost immediately found a new job and moved 1,000 miles. Hmmmmm.
The dudebro network in SBC takes care of their own … until the potato becomes too hot to handle … then it becomes “Queen who?” to protect their own skin.
Arrrgh. I just realized that I keep calling Queen McQueen. Sorry.
My 5 year old grandson is a huge fan of the Pixar Disney toy car, Lightening McQueen….. he calls it McQueen.
Juvenile me plays with him. ( I think I owe the toy car an apology, too!)
I guess I’ve got that name stuck in my head!
In other news, it’s now less than two weeks until I get married. Today I paid for the cake, which was the last serious detail that needed to be nailed down. You have no idea how hard it is to get someone to bake a small cake. Bakers want to do massive cakes that feed 150 and cost $7.50 a serving. (No, I am not lying.) Oh, and I’ve learned that it would be SO EASY to become a bridezilla. Even for a tiny wedding.
I’m wondering if Heath Woolman (Employee-2) instructed Matt Queen to create the fake meeting notes contemporaneously as well? Woolman’s allegedly instructing Queen to “make it go away” would fall in line with SWBTS executive instructions to obstruct justice by interfering with the investigation.
Woolman too, left SWBTS shortly after the heat turned up. Interesting timing…
Abuse has been happening within the SBC for at least 40 years, while the upper echelons have “rallied ‘round the perps” and protected evil doers repeatedly. For example, Darrell Gillyard was finally convicted in 2009 and was back in an SBC pulpit in 2012.
Woolman and Queen, et al, have made it clear that they have no interest in helping victims or preventing future atrocities.
Nancy2(aka Kevlar): Abuse has been happening within the SBC for at least 40 years
I figure abuse has been happening in the church for the last 2,000 years. John was already warning the 1st century church “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God” (1 John 4:1). Churchgoers would do well to heed that same warning in the 21st century … Mama, keep your eyes on the kids – yes even at church, and yes even watch the preacher.
It appears from what we are learning, that between Roman Catholics and Protestants, you need to watch your kids MORE than in most secular orgs..
As we have discussed her before, it really seems Churches are magnets for pervs…
Jeffrey Chalmers: It appears from what we are learning, that between Roman Catholics and Protestants, you need to watch your kids MORE than in most secular orgs.
Reputable secular organizations have checks & balances to ensure the safety of children. Religious groups have relied on “trust” … surely, you can trust pastors, elders, and volunteers at church to make sure your children are safe, right? The pew needs to get over that. Don’t blindly send your child to weekend youth retreats, summer church camps, and other overnight events unless you pack a bag to go with them. Heck, these days the Boy Scouts are probably safer than the neighborhood church (but don’t risk that either).
Max: “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God” (1 John 4:1).
The rub here is that we have no reliable spiritual methods to “test the spirits.” The opposite is true. Religious methods of testing the spirits are notoriously unreliable.
Ironically the best methods to test the spirits are secular: evidence, inquiry, multiple perspectives, objectivity, curiosity, doubt, and skepticism. Religious approaches tend to shun these as “materialistic.”
There is much to be lauded in the TWW integration of the secular and the spiritual.
I love Jesus but (heresy alert) he is not all knowing, all present, nor as far as I can tell, all good. Kind of like us, which is the point.
The Mormons continue to be the poster for the failure of a spiritual approach to truth. All of that “burning in the bosom” and yet Joseph Smith remains an outright fraud. Much of organized Christianity is in this basket. Trust is given to assertions that “feel right.”
The genocide of Canaan is an example of the “obvious” spirit of God commanding outright evil.
When I was a vulnerable altar boy I had no conceivable way of testing the spirits to detect danger coming from priests. None. It was my growing comfort in navigating the material world that provided a degree of discernment.
Didn’t Jesus promise more guidance than this?
Why don’t we get correct responses when we pray to Jesus?
Muslin, fka Dee Holmes: In other news, it’s now less than two weeks until I get married. Today I paid for the cake, which was the last serious detail that needed to be nailed down. You have no idea how hard it is to get someone to bake a small cake. Bakers want to do massive cakes that feed 150 and cost $7.50 a serving. (No, I am not lying.) Oh, and I’ve learned that it would be SO EASY to become a bridezilla. Even for a tiny wedding.
Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,
I’ve been thinking of you and your wedding ever since you first mentioned you were getting married. 🙂 I’m so happy for you 🙂 ….and I hope your marriage is long and happy. 🙂
Max: Reputable secular organizations have checks & balances to ensure the safety of children.Religious groups have relied on “trust” … surely, you can trust pastors, elders, and volunteers at church to make sure your children are safe, right?The pew needs to get over that.Don’t blindly send your child to weekend youth retreats, summer church camps, and other overnight events unless you pack a bag to go with them.Heck, these days the Boy Scouts are probably safer than the neighborhood church (but don’t risk that either).
Max,
I would argue that a kid has less chance of being abused or molested at a transgender story reading at the Public Library than at a church Sunday school or Bible Camp.
Ras al Ghul: I would argue that a kid has less chance of being abused or molested at a transgender story reading at the Public Library than at a church Sunday school or Bible Camp.
Jeffrey J Chalmers: And, how many in assoicated with the “gender identity crowd” have shot up a place?
It is really sad we are resorting to such comparisons…. sigh..
In their world, men and women have strict gender roles, allegedly spelled out in the Bible, no exceptions tolerated.
What do ya think was one of the reasons I got tired aggravated and walked away from the SBC back in Feb. 2016?
No one minded when I taught mixed gender algebra 1, algebra 2, and 11/12 grade pre-cal classes at a Christian school, or when when I taught 3 all-male shop classes at a public high school, but I wasn’t allowed to teach any thing to any male over the age of 10 at church!
I love teaching young people, but getting stuck with 14 four and 5-year-olds is certainly not where my talents, abilities, and patience are!
Theirs is a religion that crushes the human spirit. I’m glad you got out Nancy, it was their loss.
And for what?
Some Greek letters all run together on crumbling parchments?
Muff Potter: Theirs is a religion that crushes the human spirit.
A sure sign that Jesus is not in their religious expression … Scripture says that “times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord” (Acts 3:19) … no refreshing, no Jesus.
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Keep up the good work, Todd. These leaders need to be exposed. And whatever happened with the Tom Chantry case, by the way?
FreshGrace(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Thanks. Chantry was sentenced to 24 years but got out after about 2 years on an appeal. It could have been retried, but the primary witness, maybe 2 witnesses, I can’t recall, did not want to go through a third trial.
Todd Wilhelm(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
my integrity is everything to me.
This was yet another McQueen lie!
From Wiki-
Integrity: Integrity is the quality of being honest and showing a consistent and uncompromising adherence to strong moral and ethical principles and values.
Not only did he lie repeatedly to federal officers, he lied to protect others who had also committed crimes – sexual abuse and destroying evidence.
I would go along with home confinement, as long as he moves to this address: 1 Glen Ray Rd, Alderson, WV 24910. That would be the address of a federal women’s prison camp.
Yeah. I looked up federal prisons. I wanted to find a place for him to live as close to NC as possible so his wife and kids could visit him on the weekends….. maybe.
Nancy2(aka Kevlar)(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Sending emails to the orgs of the people that wrote the “character endorsement” is an interesting idea….
Jeffrey Chalmers(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
“The outward appearance of integrity is crucial to the continuation of my career in the religion
griftbusiness”Gus(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Looking at this from afar, from across an ocean and half a dozen time zones, it still feels like MQ is the fall guy here – though he still does deserve what’s happening to him here.
He probably thought he had to lie to the investigation because not doing so would have entailed admitting to the unwritten – and probably spoken only behind closed doors – policy of the seminary regarding reports of sexual assault:
– shame and/or bully the female¹ victim into withdrawing the report
– discipline the female for participating in fornication – who knows how unwilling she really was?
– give the man a slap on the wrist. We need manly alpha males as preachers after all.
—
¹ and if you’re the male victim of sexual assault, shame on you! You’re no better than a woman then.
Sorry to sound so cynical.
Gus(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Thinking about the initial decision (to attempt to destroy evidence), it would appear that Churchill’s maxim (paraphrased), that in wartime “the truth must be protected with a bodyguard of lies”, has been adopted as a fundamental operating principle in parts of self-described Christianity.
One wonders how pervasive this might be.
Samuel Conner(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Samuel Conner,
The phrase, “Lying for Jesus” is not new…
Jeffrey Chalmers(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
“A man in the jury pool said he would be unable to be impartial. The Judge asked him why. He responded that “he believed there was a special place in Hell for child abusers.” The Judge dismissed him.”
Matt Blunt, former Missouri Governor, wanted child sex abusers executed. He proposed legislation that would grant the death penalty to such criminals, but it failed to pass. Seems to me that when Jesus said they should have a millstone tied around their neck and tossed into the sea was also a proponent of the death penalty for those who sexually abused children.
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
“Admittedly, I am biased. I detest all who sexually abuse people. I also detest those who cover up sexual abuse, and if you’re a member of the clergy, I hold a special contempt for you.”
Darn, wish I said that. :Good post.
dee(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
I agree with you, Gus. The main man in this cover up is Heath Woolman. He is the individual that told Terri Stovall to make her document “go away.”
Todd Wilhelm(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
McQueen served at SWBTS for a total of 13 years. For the first eight years, the now infamous Paige Patterson was the president of the seminary.
The decades of abuse in the SBC was publicly exposed 3 1/2 years before McQueen lied and created the false document.
He left SWBTS to be pastor of a church one month after he lied.
IMO, He’s just as guilty as all of the rest that were involved in abusing and covering up abuse.
Nancy2(aka Kevlar)(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
“I detest all who sexually abuse people. I also detest those who cover up sexual abuse, and if you’re a member of the clergy, I hold a special contempt for you.”
Those who carry church leadership responsibility must live according to higher standards. Scripture is clear that “clergy” will be judged accordingly (1 Timothy 3:1-10; James 3:1). You can’t outrun God at the Judgment Seat – He sees what you’ve done, who you’ve protected and covered, who you’ve passed along to unsuspecting churches. It’s spiritually stupid to think you can get away with such things … to think more highly of the Inner Ring, dudebros, and good ‘ole boy networks than what the Creator of the Universe requires of you.
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
I’m sure Mr. Queen learned a lot from “Break her down” Patterson.
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Todd Wilhelm,
I agree with you about Woolman, but I think McQueen is just as guilty.
He threw the victim to the wolves, too.
McQueen lied to protect his friends and mentors, then almost immediately found a new job and moved 1,000 miles. Hmmmmm.
Nancy2(aka Kevlar)(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
I think, for what he did, McQueen is getting off easy with six months home confinement. Just My Personal Opinion.
Muslin, fka Dee Holmes(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
You’re right. And your comment further up – “The decades of abuse in the SBC was publicly exposed 3 1/2 years before McQueen lied and created the false document” is an excellent point.
Todd Wilhelm(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
I agree. And I bet he won’t even get that.
Todd Wilhelm(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
The dudebro network in SBC takes care of their own … until the potato becomes too hot to handle … then it becomes “Queen who?” to protect their own skin.
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Arrrgh. I just realized that I keep calling Queen McQueen. Sorry.
My 5 year old grandson is a huge fan of the Pixar Disney toy car, Lightening McQueen….. he calls it McQueen.
Juvenile me plays with him. ( I think I owe the toy car an apology, too!)
I guess I’ve got that name stuck in my head!
Nancy2(aka Kevlar)(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
In other news, it’s now less than two weeks until I get married. Today I paid for the cake, which was the last serious detail that needed to be nailed down. You have no idea how hard it is to get someone to bake a small cake. Bakers want to do massive cakes that feed 150 and cost $7.50 a serving. (No, I am not lying.) Oh, and I’ve learned that it would be SO EASY to become a bridezilla. Even for a tiny wedding.
Muslin, fka Dee Holmes(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Congratulations, Dee!
Todd Wilhelm(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,
The dress! I want to see the dress.
dee(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,
Bridezilla??? Oh my!
I hope the bridezilla impulses are short and mild, and the marriage is long and strong.
Nancy2(aka Kevlar)(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
I’m wondering if Heath Woolman (Employee-2) instructed Matt Queen to create the fake meeting notes contemporaneously as well? Woolman’s allegedly instructing Queen to “make it go away” would fall in line with SWBTS executive instructions to obstruct justice by interfering with the investigation.
Woolman too, left SWBTS shortly after the heat turned up. Interesting timing…
R.G. Lee(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
reminiscent of “Break Her Down” Patterson … preparing seminary students for ministry in this brave new world?
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
R.G. Lee,
R.G., perhaps an underlying problem within SBC is that we don’t have any R.G. Lee’s in the mix these days
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
All that’s missing is “permanently”; add that and you have Comrade Stalin’s “Killing is the solution to everything; no more person, no more problem.”
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
doubleplusungood doubleplusunperson.
to remember otherwise is doublepluscrimethink!
(When your church culture fits the words of a fictional Ultimate Totalitarian Dictatorship, that is NOT a good sign.)
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Still too much for his God-Anointed Ego.
The Arrogance of God’s Special Pets literally cannot be exaggerated.
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
R.G. Lee,
Max,
Abuse has been happening within the SBC for at least 40 years, while the upper echelons have “rallied ‘round the perps” and protected evil doers repeatedly. For example, Darrell Gillyard was finally convicted in 2009 and was back in an SBC pulpit in 2012.
Woolman and Queen, et al, have made it clear that they have no interest in helping victims or preventing future atrocities.
Nancy2(aka Kevlar)(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
I figure abuse has been happening in the church for the last 2,000 years. John was already warning the 1st century church “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God” (1 John 4:1). Churchgoers would do well to heed that same warning in the 21st century … Mama, keep your eyes on the kids – yes even at church, and yes even watch the preacher.
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
“6 months of home confinement”
It’s a new form of an SBC “sabbatical’
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Max,
It appears from what we are learning, that between Roman Catholics and Protestants, you need to watch your kids MORE than in most secular orgs..
As we have discussed her before, it really seems Churches are magnets for pervs…
Jeffrey Chalmers(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Reputable secular organizations have checks & balances to ensure the safety of children. Religious groups have relied on “trust” … surely, you can trust pastors, elders, and volunteers at church to make sure your children are safe, right? The pew needs to get over that. Don’t blindly send your child to weekend youth retreats, summer church camps, and other overnight events unless you pack a bag to go with them. Heck, these days the Boy Scouts are probably safer than the neighborhood church (but don’t risk that either).
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
With the $$$$$ pouring in without interruption.
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
The rub here is that we have no reliable spiritual methods to “test the spirits.” The opposite is true. Religious methods of testing the spirits are notoriously unreliable.
Ironically the best methods to test the spirits are secular: evidence, inquiry, multiple perspectives, objectivity, curiosity, doubt, and skepticism. Religious approaches tend to shun these as “materialistic.”
There is much to be lauded in the TWW integration of the secular and the spiritual.
I love Jesus but (heresy alert) he is not all knowing, all present, nor as far as I can tell, all good. Kind of like us, which is the point.
The Mormons continue to be the poster for the failure of a spiritual approach to truth. All of that “burning in the bosom” and yet Joseph Smith remains an outright fraud. Much of organized Christianity is in this basket. Trust is given to assertions that “feel right.”
The genocide of Canaan is an example of the “obvious” spirit of God commanding outright evil.
When I was a vulnerable altar boy I had no conceivable way of testing the spirits to detect danger coming from priests. None. It was my growing comfort in navigating the material world that provided a degree of discernment.
Didn’t Jesus promise more guidance than this?
Why don’t we get correct responses when we pray to Jesus?
Sandy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Muslin, fka Dee Holmes,
I’ve been thinking of you and your wedding ever since you first mentioned you were getting married. 🙂 I’m so happy for you 🙂 ….and I hope your marriage is long and happy. 🙂
researcher(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
You betcha’ they do, they thoroughly vet the people who have charge over kids.
By and large, the so called ‘church’ orgs have no such safeguards, and it’s like ringing the dinner bell for predators.
Muff Potter(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Predators look for weak prey, for hunting grounds which provide cover to stalk and attack.
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Max,
I would argue that a kid has less chance of being abused or molested at a transgender story reading at the Public Library than at a church Sunday school or Bible Camp.
Ras al Ghul(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
I would agree.
Muff Potter(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Muff Potter,
And, how many in assoicated with the “gender identity crowd” have shot up a place?
It is really sad we are resorting to such comparisons…. sigh..
Jeffrey J Chalmers(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
In their world, men and women have strict gender roles, allegedly spelled out in the Bible, no exceptions tolerated.
Muff Potter(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Muff Potter,
What do ya think was one of the reasons I got tired aggravated and walked away from the SBC back in Feb. 2016?
No one minded when I taught mixed gender algebra 1, algebra 2, and 11/12 grade pre-cal classes at a Christian school, or when when I taught 3 all-male shop classes at a public high school, but I wasn’t allowed to teach any thing to any male over the age of 10 at church!
I love teaching young people, but getting stuck with 14 four and 5-year-olds is certainly not where my talents, abilities, and patience are!
Nancy2(aka Kevlar)(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Theirs is a religion that crushes the human spirit. I’m glad you got out Nancy, it was their loss.
And for what?
Some Greek letters all run together on crumbling parchments?
Muff Potter(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
With The Handmaid’s Tale replacing Late Great Planet Earth or Left Behind or Atlas Shrugged as the 67th Book that completely supersedes the other 66.
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
A sure sign that Jesus is not in their religious expression … Scripture says that “times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord” (Acts 3:19) … no refreshing, no Jesus.
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Nancy2(aka Kevlar),
What is happening to Christian Flores and his victim?? No records available!
Ruth A Cook(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
And back in the pulpit before you know it! The dudebros will make that happen.
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Max,
To paraphrase Dune, “The Tithes Must Flow.”
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)