Any form of spiritual subordination, other than to God, is spiritual abuse.

Chris Webster,

Divide and rule. Make your peer (God’s gift to you) invisible to you.

I have a technological problem with Survey Monkey but have also enquired why these deep observations can be statistically reduced to about 20 scientific questions. We all have a compass and a scale, therefore the sum total of all our scales will always be of the supreme value.

If it’s overtly meant to be only a partial tool it could do good, especially if it jogs our memories to look more realistically about what’s been going on. I think it’s for our use among ourselves and I wouldn’t expect an organisation to recognise themselves in the mirror. (This is the old minima vs. maxima question.)

Nearly all doctrine these days is church order / canon law (this contrives to denigrate God in the process). Being told what these doctrines are however, is gossip. Thus one doesn’t have a handle on one’s hoped-for interactions with ones peers. Its relation with real meanings of real Scripture passages is tenuous. The animators and under-animators themselves don’t understand, as they are the products of the system.

One can have a decent minister who isn’t an instigator of micromanagement, and good sermons, excellent services. If elders imply that we have to await their permission to pray, or circumscribe the scope of prayer, or their permission to mix, we will be at the top of a downward spiral. We can start by praying that a good minister – if we have one – will rumble them and appeal to wider and deeper meanings. If they brought one in to cement their system, time to be on the alert.

A bad idea I’ve noticed in one big international denomination is when its own heads impose their own dumbed-down canon law definition (do as you would not be done by the police). Pew goers are the ones that should be in charge of church morals, and we don’t need to paint ourselves or our peers into corners formally once we have uncaged Scripture meanings – just be frank when the occasion demands.

Jackie V nailed it.

I first experienced spiritual abuse when a covert calvinist became pastor of our SBC church about 30 years ago. I had often taught SS, and was teaching a ladies Bible study in my home. He set out to disagree with, denigrate, and just generally be quietly on a mission to run me off. He knew I knew my Bible better than to swallow his teaching. I stayed nearly 2 years. The last straw was being called a heretic from the pulpit on a Sunday morning because I had voiced support for a church that was, ahem, not in his theological circle.

After I left I witnessed him horribly verbally abuse his own wife in the grocery store. Today his kids associate with her, not him, although to my best knowledge she has stayed married to him. He rose high in the SBC, and then finally repudiated calvinism and fell to low service just as quickly. He has repented and publicly apologized. His own background was one of abuse, and he seemed so hungry to be told he was “good enough.” He got that from being a church leader. Today he still fights that, but is much more humble and I do expect to be seated near them in heaven, lol.

NO ONE is ever in spiritual authority over another human being!

I was going to say somthing about how it varies from person to person, etc, etc..
But then, I further reflected on Jackie V’s comment, and she might just be putting forward the best definition…

The problem is, if I were to confront some of my “spiritual abusers” of the past with Jackie V’s comment, namely “Any form of spiritual subordination”, my abuseres would wip out a specific verse, hit me over the head with it, and say, “So, you are just disagreeing with G$d’s word”???”

linda: I first experienced spiritual abuse when a covert calvinist became pastor of our SBC church

There has been an outbreak of that in SBC! The New Calvinists are now firmly in control of all SBC entities: seminaries, mission agencies, publishing house, church planting program, and takeover of a growing number of once-traditional (non-Calvinist) churches through stealth and deception. Unfortunately, millions of non-Calvinist SBC members are not discerning enough to realize this and continue to bankroll the New Calvinist movement within their ranks.

1-2 examples? I could write a book just with examples from small churches in my small community. Here’s a recent one. Pastor and his BFF “planted” a new busin… er… church 5 years ago. Following the Moses model, entrepreneur/sole proprietor Pastor appointed 4 elders including his BFF elder1. A man we’ll call Ralph gave generously of his time talent and treasure, not just to the church but to Pastor and Elder1 individually. For example, Elder1’s son “needed” a home and Ralph made him a personal loan. But Pastor would take advantage of Ralph in various ways and not even apologize or try to make things right. So Ralph got fed up and left the church. Things seemed good to the flock except for little hiccups like pewsitters being given no clue as to where their giving was going. Pastor and his family were gone about half the Sundays traveling about the world, where he might baptize someone and then expense the vaca… oops ministry trip.
A couple weeks after Ralph left, Pastor demanded a 200% raise since god was telling him to go full-time. The elders balked at this, so he “fired” the unpaid elders. BFF Elder1 soon gave in and was kept onboard. Then Elder2’s wife didn’t want to lose her status so he caved in and stayed on. Elder3 left the church. The oldest elder #4 thought he could stay and make a difference, so he was put out to pasture with a nice “thanks for your service” service and kept attending while expressing his concerns. Pastor’s wife then stopped attending— basically boycotting services because Elder4 hadn’t gone away all quiet-like as he was supposed to have done. Finally things were so uncomfortable that Elder4 left. There were sermons about unity and dissenters. A couple weeks later Ralph tried to visit the church. Maybe he wanted to ask Pastor some hard questions. Maybe he just missed seeing his former friends. Elder1 met him outside with a couple other large armed men. Ralph wasn’t welcome and was given the left boot of disfellowship because he hadn’t been attending there for 8months. Ralph’s heart was broken. The next Saturday he suffered a heart attack. A couple weeks later I drove past on a Sunday morning. The parking lot was overflowing onto 2 streets. Greed sells!

elastigirl,

Gawwwwwd, it’s like scientology.

Good leading article and valid defintions and examples.
My internal alarm generally goes off when I’m sensing – in others & yes too myself – that God/Christ, the things of God/Christ and the life & role of the Church, are in one way or another being unethically utilised as ‘tools’ to bring about a desired result, with the results often being about – control, power, enhanced status, sex, & money.
As Thomas A Kempis said, “few flames ascend without smoke”, so underlying motives and whether respect is being shown towards God/Christ and other peoples autonomy, always needs to be honestly questioned and not simply rationalised.

Have heard many a sad story related to spiritual abuse, with one brief melancholy comment from a victim I meet which still comes to mind.
“I left church to save my faith”

First, I can summarise the cricket by saying that Ben Stokes has declared after Joe Root was caught behind just after making his 36th Test century. The Kiwis will chase 583.

Back to the matter in hand, one example of spiritual abuse is the unpaid internship.

There are different kinds – many Wartburgers will be aware of the notorious internships conducted by the Stockstill family at Bethany Church in Louisiana, for instance. The internship I personally did, here in Scotland, was rather different from that. It was a part of the “GO-Team” program run by the CMI group of churches. The idea was that young people would give a year of their (read, our) lives to work full time in a team of around 8 for a new church plant within the CMI network, from September to August – that is, following the academic year. Not only were we unpaid, but we actually paid to take part – fees were around £5000 adjusted for inflation.

Wartburgers may be curious as to why even 21-year-old me thought this was a good idea. My answer is that that’s a long story, that I don’t want to go into here. Maybe in a later comment.

There were 8 GO-Teams the year I did it, all around the UK (2 in Wales, 1 in Scotland and the rest in England). Some of the teams had reasonably good experiences in their local churches, but even so, there’s a basic problem with the whole premise. In all cases, team members were expected to be at the service of the churches in which they were stationed, exactly in the manner of employees. But Jesus (echoing the rest of the biblescriptures, TBH) was explicit that the workers are worthy of their wages. We had no pay, no pension and gained next to nothing in terms of marketable employment skills. For me, being autistic and badly underskilled at the art of competing in the job market, GO-Team was the start of a gruelling 8 years of McJobs and unemployment, Cambridge degree notwithstanding. And we did NOT have a positive experience. The CEO of the church business in which I was placed explicitly told us that as GO-Teamers we had given up our right to say no. Not to God, by the way, but to him. We were there to serve, end of.

I could say a lot more about GO-Team, but it’s instructive to reflect on how GO-Team affected the lives of people on it. A very few found that it led to some form of long-term role in some church or other. But I’ve lost count over the years of the number of ex-GO-Teamers I’ve heard about who left the faith entirely not long after. Few of us gained much from our time on team, and if we did, it was generally despite and not because of it.

The basic hallmark of abuse around these internships goes, I think, something like this. Come and serve us, and maybe God will bless you via someone else. Meanwhile we’ll just cream off whatever results we get from your labour.

Jackie V,

I think this is it, too. A human trying to control another human in the name of God.

I don’t think more is needed, but this controlling behavior is often for the benefit of the abusive, too, and that’s just another sign it’s abusive.

ishy: A human trying to control another human in the name of God.

= taking God’s name in vain

George,

Oh how the mighty have fallen. I really think Brent would benefit from a licensed therapist. I say it wit no irony and I hope he finds help.

Nick Bulbeck,

Have any of their churches / churches you started continued, and left CMI? Have any of them now joined a “presbytery” equally as controlling as CMI?

I see their reach is in India and four countries in Africa but not Britain; when they were over here they must have been after something other than what they said. Thank you for daring to be so frank.

Spot the lie on their doctrine page: the five fold don’t belong to the bosses: the fivefold (as well as the ninefold and the 55 fold) belong to all of us, unvetoed, since Ascension (whatever our “churchmanship”).

What distinguishes churches of all “styles” since at least the 1980s is that your or my effortfully expressed word is not to be recognised as language, like a bird is oblivious to a passing lorry.

“By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” (John 13:35)

Spiritual abuse is a form of hate. Church leaders who abuse others in any way are not disciples of Christ, no matter how you spin it. Manipulation, intimidation, and domination are not fruit of the Holy Spirit. “From such turn away” (2 Timothy 3:5).

ishy: The church then pretended like they had no idea. I sent in the information I had anyway, though I only got a stock response.

The ‘church’ didn’t say a goddang thing when cattle cars full of Jews were headed East
either.

Michael in UK,

It turns out that there are many more CMI’s than I thought! That whereof I wrote was Covenant Ministries International, which was originally called Harvesttime and often referred to as “Restoration”. It was led by Bryn Jones and, I think to a lesser extent, his brother Keri.

Bryn held to an extremely hierarchical theology; he taught, for instance, that in Acts 14 when Paul and Barnabas visited the churches and “appointed elders for them”, “them” meant “themselves” – that is, elders in a local church are subordinate to the ruling apostle(s) and are there to do their bidding and ensure that the local churches support (and, inevitably, fund) the dreams of the apostles.

With Bryn’s death in 2003, CMI as it used to be effectively ended; there were several offshoots, at least one of which (based on the testimony of people I know) is much less controlling, and much more healthy.

ishy: I wish this story was fake. It’s outrageous. But I have at least ten other stories that are just as outrageous about spiritual abuse.

I believe you, but I gotta’ speak on behalf of the people who remain in abusive churches.
Most of their lives and identities are wrapped up in those places to where they would have no idea about how to continue life if they left.

Muff Potter: people who remain in abusive churches … their lives and identities are wrapped up in those places to where they would have no idea about how to continue life if they left

Such a strange dynamic … preachers who abuse, elders who protect them, and pewsitters who tolerate ungodly behavior … nothing Christian about the whole mess.

Bridget,

Nevermind. I found it, unfortunately.

Bridget: Spiritual abuse you say?

Drove me from church groups altogether.

I had to keep faith.

Abuse and church/faith are incompatible.

My family attended an Anglican Church for a very long time. Two years ago our son almost drowned during our small group gathering. Spiritual abuse happened to me when our priests found out immediately- one of them was present during the accident- but did nothing to create environmental safety moving forward. That negligence was spiritual abuse. When I brought my concerns to them about how my son’s accident was handled, the Rector replied, “But what kept you from speaking up and asking for the safety changes you needed?”. That abdication of responsibility was spiritual abuse. My priests were so blind to their own power and how they misused it.

Love protects, it even protects others from one’s own self-defensiveness.

Grumpy,

The Mormon church is a prime example…… I think with all of “official revelation” about Mormon church history may be “lightening up” the consequences of leaving Mormonism, they were famous for their cutting off family members who left the church…. Another example of spiritual abuse..

Jeffrey Chalmers: members who left the church … Another example of spiritual abuse

You can add New Calvinism to that list

Grumpy: More seriously, if you leave, you risk losing EVERYTHING….your spouse, your house, access to your grandchildren, your job, your “friends”, your business connections, etc

That’s why so many churches push this Christianese Counterfeit Culture of “Just like Fill-in-the-Blank, Except CHRISTIAN(TM)!” knockoffs of everything on the Outside. So you have NO contact with anything outside the four Thomas Kincade-decorated walls of your Church/prisom.

What pulled me out of that End-of-the-World “Christian Fellowship” in the mid-Seventies was making Outside connections – contact with SF litfandom and discovering Dungeons & Dragons. I had an outside link and a bolthole. In the Alternative Reality of Christian Counterfeit Culture, you DON”t have ANY contacts or links to the Outside; you’re inside the Event Horizon of a Christianese Black Hole.

ishy: I think this is it, too. A human trying to control another human in the name of God.

In Jewish thought, Doing Evil in the Name of God is the original definition of “Taking the LORD’s Name in Vain”.

Convenient how it has been redefined to mean cussing and only cussing, Eh, My Dear Wormwood?
I refer you to my epistle on redefining the Enemy’s own words into their “diabolical meanings”.

George: I am starting to think this is some alternative reality I am witnessing.

From Brent’s post “Yet, I have brought reproach upon this endeavor through my hypocrisy and various enemies (e.g., those who have committed crimes and covered up crimes) will use it to discredit me and my work. This produces great regret.”
Let me “fix” this for him.
Yet, I have brought reproach upon this endeavor through my hypocrisy, which I deeply regret. My enemies didn’t make me do it! The devil didn’t make me do it! I did this to myself!

Michael in UK,

More on the abuse here

https://survivingchurch.org/2018/02/27/spiritual-abuse-sallys-story-part-1/

Headless Unicorn Guy: In Jewish thought, Doing Evil in the Name of God is the original definition of “Taking the LORD’s Name in Vain”

Most church folks don’t get this. “Pastors” who commit the abuses reported on TWW are carrying the name of Christ in their ministry hypocritally and ineffectually. They are not ambassadeurs for Christ. They will be judged for using the precious name of Jesus to gain the trust of believers they then abuse in various ways. They are treading on dangerous ground.

Doubtful,

Although there is quite a difference between what Brent conveys about the affair and what the offended family conveys.

I know whom I believe.

Max,

Yes. I’ve kept quiet about my thoughts on Brent since early on. I never thought he was a good guy in the SGM world. I’m convinced he thought he was though. I believe he was self deceived in many ways. He may even have narcissistic characteristics. I’m not a doctor, so those are just my observations as a nobody.

What I have witnessed usually took the form of extra-biblical ‘hobby horse convictions’ that can manifest as anything between forceful pulpit declarations, to subtle and ‘winsomely communicated’ expectations of community behavior, parroted by blindly loyal elders.

A pronounced de-emphasis on the ministry of the indwelling Holy Spirit, consequently revoking the believer’s liberty in Christ, and binding their freedom of conscience.

Despite awkwardly strained efforts to apply ‘the gospel’ as a magical incantation buzzword …such devilish usurpation of the Spirit, is in essence, a functional denial of the Good News …which exchanges unmerited grace, for a burdensome legalistic yoke of unscriptural ‘rules taught by men’.

My wife and I endured things like: Dress code for OBEDIENT Christians (in or OUTSIDE of church): Women can’t wear pants, men don’t wear shorts, or ‘effeminate’ pink colored attire …and must wear a tie if teaching Sunday school.

Every Sunday when I hear the term ‘Tithes & offerings’ …I wince, as I cannot find the biblical support for a New Covenant ‘tithe’ …as defined by the OT.

Bridget: Although there is quite a difference between what Brent conveys about the affair and what the offended family conveys.

https://oldreepicheep.substack.com/p/brent-detwiler-sovereign-grace-culture

Dave: de-emphasis on the ministry of the indwelling Holy Spirit, consequently revoking the believer’s liberty in Christ, and binding their freedom of conscience

The stuff that cults are made of. Beware of anyone who says “Thus saith the Lord” unless you hear it too through the Holy Spirit within you who will lead you to all truth.

Doubtful,

The content of BD’s account of the erratic tergiversations of “Advance” didn’t surprise me. We need a lot more information on all that because of the welfare of a great many people. I know people who dropped out of “Advance” after I dropped out of one of the other NF branches.

Dave: when I hear the term ‘Tithes & offerings’ … I wince

You will find no scriptural support in the New Testament for a 10-percent tithe in order to please God. There are no instances of the apostles teaching New Testament believers to give a certain percentage of their income. Instead, Christians are instructed to give freely from the heart, not under pressure to obey the rules of men:

“Let each one give thoughtfully and with purpose just as he has decided in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver and delights in the one whose heart is in his gift.” (2 Corinthians 9:7 AMP)

Church leaders don’t want you to know this, of course. They are more comfortable teaching “Give 10-percent or else!” rather than allowing a believer to decide in his heart how much and where to give. For me and my house, we prefer being cheerful givers as the Lord leads, rather than letting others be cheerful taking our money to use it however. If there’s anything we’ve learned on TWW, you can’t just trust any old pulpit these days to do the right thing.

researcher,

If you’ve not already done so, be sure to click on the additional comments! It was surreal last night seeing a fresh comment by the adulterer appear— straight from his keyboard to my eyes. Breathing out threats and accusations against the adulteress’s daughter, her husband, her stepfather, and the pastor as if they were CO2. Likely from the same keyboard the adulteress’s daughter gave him so he could do the looord’s work. Meanwhile, the adulteress is standing steadfastly by her man— not her husband but the adulterer.
I sincerely the adulterer will reach out to Todd and answer the questions the adulteress’s daughter has posted on her blog. And Todd can post the answers right here so we’re sure to get both sides of the story.

Max,

Max,

Yeah, there is an undeniably biased, conflicting interest regarding how a pastor handles ‘tithing verses’ and ‘cheerful giving of what one has purposed in their heart to contribute’. In 40+ years of Church attendance, I can only recall a Calvary Chapel specifically rejecting the ‘sacred cows’ of NT tithing and formal membership process.

Dave: Sometimes I feel isolated in my sentiments regarding the YRR way of ‘doing church’ in this nation. So, maybe I’m NOT crazy (or rebellious?)

You’re NOT crazy or rebellious … you’ve got your spiritual head screwed on straight in regard to the YRR. The new reformers are certainly passionate about the NeoCal movement, but it is a misplaced passion. Their aggressive and militant mission to restore the “gospel” to the American church (Calvinism = Gospel), is a rebellion against the real church and the true Gospel. There is nothing Christlike about the YRR method and message; they preach another gospel which is not ‘the’ Gospel at all. I hope to live long enough to see their movement join the long line of other aberrations of faith as they fade into obscurity.

Bridget,

“I never thought he was a good guy in the SGM world. I’m convinced he thought he was though.”
+++++++++++++++++

it only takes a little encouragement for some to self-inflate along those lines.

and my, how unimpressive they are.

researcher,

Also, Brent was divorced when his wife passed? I had no idea. I was under the impression that he was still married. Did I miss something, or did he leave that out from his dozens of posts?

Satin: seeing a fresh comment by the adulterer appear

Well, in one of the latest comments by this gentleman, I must stand corrected, and call him something else. Just what, I’m not sure. He says “I did not commit adultery! I broke no laws but your stepfather did. Charges could be brought against him. It is against the law to video infidelity in Florida.”
So the canoodled husband apparently illegally filmed “infidelity” (of a serious but “limited” variety) taking place in his own home. He couldn’t have filmed adultery, of course, since no one committed any of that stuff. I’m so confused…….
I think only HUG can answer this one…

Satin: I think only HUG can answer this one…

In nine words:
TWO PLUS TWO EQUALS FIVE! EES PARTY LINE, COMRADES!”

Max: You will find no scriptural support in the New Testament for a 10-percent tithe in order to please God.

The leaders of my church recommend tithing as a RECOMMENDATION, not a Requirement, not a Command.
Their actual recommendation is to split this between the church itself and a separate non-church charity.
And if you’re in hard times, not more than you can afford; if you’re in bare-bones Survival Mode, not at all — take care of your own needs and your family’s needs first.

Max: Beware of anyone who says “Thus saith the Lord” unless you hear it too through the Holy Spirit within you who will lead you to all truth.

Idunno, Max.
With all the Prophets, Seers, and Revelators that have been coming out of the woodwork for the past eight years with Dreams, Visions, and Revelations where the Holy Spirit constantly mistakes Donald J Trump for Jesus H Christ…

Headless Unicorn Guy: i.e. “GIMME MONEY OR GOD! WILL!! PUNISH!!! YOU!!!!”

I just tell em’ to eat poo-poo and die.

People like what their church is doing to them, because their personal cod theology aligns with the church’s cod theology – until they don’t.

I was nearly always at least semi-sceptical about some details and some big pictures. The times I wasn’t, were my worst times, and the best times of unworthy leaders (those were the times it was out of fashion to be semi-sceptical).

I’ve reverted, but the unworthies have got cross because a proportion of their clientele have semi-rumbled them. The more or less worthy ones seem fewer or less prominent, sadly.

One doesn’t have to push doctrines considered extreme, to spoil Christianity with a heavy hand.

The thing about spiritual abuse from church leaders is that the Holy Spirit within you lets you know that’s what you are experiencing … it’s a check that warns you that you need to be getting the heck away from them.

researcher,

I don’t think I can stomach any additional Brent Detwiler self-righteous vitriol.

theater,

“a strict doctrine of “dying to self” with zero room for taking care of oneself, to the point of teaching classes against it. Result was a culture of burnout and stress, and no tolerance for anyone being tired.”
+++++++++++++++

sounds like Scientology

you aren’t allowed your own boundaries.

To summarize: they got so focused on doctrine that they forgot to love people.

theater:
To summarize: they got so focused on doctrine that they forgot to love people.

So SPIRITUAL(TM) they have sealed themselves off from Reality.

“God Lives in the Real World.” — Rich Buhler
And a lot of Christians DON’T.

theater: focused on doctrine … forgot to love

theologically-wrong, rather than eternally-right

theater,

“Yeah though they didn’t mean it like that.

They never explicitly tried to control or order around, never went to your house or creepy things. Instead they got carried away with the idea that people should be selfless, about putting others before yourself, about considering the needs of others.

…And if you disagreed at all, the implication was that you just needed to try harder.”
+++++++++++++++++++

in religious environments especially, implicit messages are just as powerful as explicit messages.

if you wear the pastor hat, you can control people by implying all manner of things without actually saying them.

it’s baked into the christian pastor leadership industry.

(many) pastors simply emulate and parrot manipulative and controlling stuff from the culture they are immersed in because it’s just the done thing.

in the scenario you’re describing, it makes co-dependency a so-called ‘gospel issue’

…(a term which means absolutely nothing, but again the implicit meaning is it is a sin to do otherwise, and you risk losing God’s favor/respect, your christian peers’ favor/respect, perhaps your eternal status, your salvation,…)

all in all, christian church culture erodes objectivity.

Bridget,
A few (13) years ago I made a comment on a post about SGM, which now needs an update. The previous post was about how BD had been “defriended”, and included a list of acronyms including IHA for I Hate Acronyms. But people who were familiar with that “family of churches” understood my acronyms. FF stood for Friendly Fire, a former SGM pastor.
11/20/2011
Let me try, just using initials, get this straight. Consider I’m writing a novel and asking, “would this be believable?”. FF founds SRC. He brings up MC in the faith and makes him his young protege. In a nearby city, LT and CJ found CLC and later PDI, which would become SGM. They bring BD and JL in as young proteges (amongst others). FF thinks they’re his friends, and joins in. Instead, BD degifts him, makes him janitor, rustles the mutton, and installs MC as FF’s boss. FF goes away quietly, but now sometimes wishes he’d blown the whole thing up. Eventually CJ degifts LT, JL takes over at SRC, JH becomes CJ’s young protege and eventually boss at CLC, MC degifts BD, who does NOT go away quietly, JH states this may be God’s discipline, and now may leave SGM and take CLC with him, CJ goes away briefly but may well end up at SRC, CJ invites, then disinvites, LT to a reconciliation conference, gives a speech there to say he was wrong to say he was wrong, and to publicly mark divisors like BD, and MC unfriends BD. Last and least, I friend BD, just to be contrary.
11/11/2024
BD posts his most recent FB article, a nice piece honoring veterans. He forgets to post anything about some “serious, but limited” improprieties he’s been doing with another man’s wife, with which he’s been confronted a week earlier. He’s still forgotten to update his FB friends. And so….
12/13/2024
I unfriend BD……..

Sorry, one more comment. I woke up in the middle of the night regretting that I commented on this post, worried that I was doing something wrong. Then quickly realized that is the conditioning I have had for years. I realized that is the fear that still lingers in me of those men who call themselves pastors. I did nothing wrong commenting but wrote of my experience. And it is okay. You are so correct in your blog, spiritual abuse is extremely hard to define. Thank you for posting! It has actually helped me process this a bit more.

Liz,

i understand.

i mentioned above that my experience with a very controlling church environment resulted in me second-guessing everything i did. every decision, even down to which socks i chose to wear. feeling agitated and stressful fear and doom that surely i had somehow done something very wrong.

such a sick church culture.

Liz:
Sorry, one more comment.I woke up in the middle of the night regretting that I commented on this post, worried that I was doing something wrong.Then quickly realized that is the conditioning I have had for years.I realized that is the fear that still lingers in me of those men who call themselves pastors.I did nothing wrong commenting but wrote of my experience.And it is okay.You are so correct in your blog, spiritual abuse is extremely hard to define.Thank you for posting!It has actually helped me process this a bit more.

Thank you for explaining your experience. You are not alone. My family had a similar situation.

And you are absolutely right. If it helps, 1 Tim. 5:19-20 says “Do not admit a charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses. As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.” It sounds like from your description that there were way more than two or three witnesses. So now you are SUPPOSED to call them out in the open. Explaining it in an open forum like this is the RIGHT thing to do. Being brave and giving your testimony is how we’re supposed to solve these problems.

elastigirl: i mentioned above that my experience with a very controlling church environment resulted in me second-guessing everything i did. every decision, even down to which socks i chose to wear.

Where the Wrong Choice could put into Eternal Hell.
Especially when whichever way you choose, it WILL be the Wrong Choice.
And everything has been elevated to Literally Cosmic Importance, GOD or SATAN.

It’s like this illustration from local morning drive-time radio:
“Everything’s Political. Don’t believe me? Next break, I’m going to the bathroom. The MEN’s Room. That’s making a Political Statement!”

elastigirl: if you wear the pastor hat, you can control people by implying all manner of things without actually saying them.

Two words: PLAUSIBLE. DENIABILITY.
“I said NO SUCH THING! FALSE WITNESS! FALSE WITNESS!”

Works especially well with the Christianese Conditioning to take everything Jot-and-Tittle Literally. Semantics, My Dear Wormwood.

Satin,

Yes. Definition of insanity if you ask me.

Bridget: I never felt more free in Christ Jesus as when I left the organized church setting!

When the blind man healed by Jesus told church leaders the truth about his healing, they threw him out of the church! Scripture records that Jesus went looking for him! It’s better to be out of church with Jesus, than in church without Him.

theater: Thank you for explaining your experience.You are not alone.My family had a similar situation.

And you are absolutely right.If it helps, 1 Tim. 5:19-20 says “Do not admit a charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses. As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.”It sounds like from your description that there were way more than two or three witnesses.So now you are SUPPOSED to call them out in the open.Explaining it in an open forum like this is the RIGHT thing to do.Being brave and giving your testimony is how we’re supposed to solve these problems.

Thank you for the encouragement! I replied wrong and forgot to hit the quoted reply so my other reply to you was in response to this too. You are right. The problem of spiritual abuse won’t be solved if we aren’t putting these problems in an open forum and discussing them. I’m sorry for what your family experienced too. It’s tough.