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The voice of a god, and not a mom!!!!!
In New Testament days, Jezeb… er… mom would have been eaten by worms and———maybe even died!

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Awful behavior from Joni and her sycophants. Terribly distressing for the child and her parents. And the recordings are a case study in spiritual abuse. Jimmy Evan’s, I think is done after his role in this.

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Joni…you have to know this little girl is not making things up and just the outward things Pete has done are obvious obsession he has for her…you may have been able to lock her up verbally but that changes nothing about the truth…sickening..my heart goes out to Jonathan and Suzy who were trying to do the right thing.. Im prayerfully interceding on behalf of all involved

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“.. this is a fight against a “spiritual enemy who wants to destroy” …”

“I have to say this, um, I’m really concerned about how much time people spend on the Internet. I’m extremely concerned about it. Extremely concerned about it; here’s one thing, just even the blogs that mention Christian leaders, and I’m one of ‘em. Praise the Lord, I’ve made the Satan, Satan’s hit list now you know …” (Robert Morris)

“This is getting so bad that some folks are pulling out of Daystar programming.”

“Leave them to themselves. For if this teaching or movement is merely human it will collapse of its own accord.” (Acts 5:38-39 Phillips)

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I know I’ve said this before, but it bears repeating: if you are a donor to any charity (religious or secular), if things reach the point to where you cannot continue to donate in good conscience, know how to turn those donations OFF.

Also, if you are a regular supporter of any ministry which airs on Daystar, encourage them to remove their programming from that network unless and until changes are made. There may be contractual issues with which they have to deal, but known participation with those in open sin is sin itself.

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If you pay attention to the ancient Scriptures you’ll never be surprised by the sins humans commit.
*
Our issue, we grossly tend to underestimate the enormity of our own sins.

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Max: “You may find yourself regarded as an accomplice in the sins of others. Keep yourself pure.” (1 Timothy 5:22 NCB)

Thank you for the reference, I will use it elsewhere!

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Gus: I really wonder what has made so many Americans fall for such a bunch of extremely obvious grifters.

We Americans are a funny bunch Gus, on the one hand, we’ll wax weepy over a sad movie, and on the other hand, vote a tyrant into office.
The same thing happened to the German people in 1933.
Whether it’s Daystar, TBN, or even your (generic your) local mega-church, it’s all about getting inside of people’s heads and making money.

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Muff Potter: Whether it’s Daystar, TBN, or even your (generic your) local mega-church, it’s all about getting inside of people’s heads and making money.

Lifestyles of the Rich and “Christian”

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Muff Potter,

Often you mention when will the lawyers “get it” and go after the institutions for criminal activities therein by prominent highly visible leader types and their schemes?

It’s happening out of the law firm of Anderson Associates, Jeff Anderson. They are suing a lux hotel for beautiful thin teen girls, minors, being Uber’d to the hotel to walk past the Front Desk and end up in a certain pol’s lux suite.

The teen girls were trafficked as political favors, then had to be carried out, drunk/drugged, again past the Front Desk, out the Front Door to be placed in an Uber and Uber’d away.

The lux hotel, as well as the political guy, are being held liable for the scheme that trafficked the teen girls. They all knew. The hotel profited from the pol’s scheme, big time. The pol is in jail. Now it’s the hotel’s turn to be held accountable for their criminal activity, i.e. business practice of profiting from trafficking teen girls.

Does a church embrace a highly popular pastor who has side chicks and criminal side gigs? Is the church liable for looking the other way? Just to keep the org in place with celebrity pastor, business as usual?

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Ava Aaronson,

Debs (short for debutante) we used to call them: to make a lady of them.

Muff Potter: it’s all about getting inside of people’s heads

You know those churches where everybody was expected to volunteer – and volunteered to be mute underlings (supported by “scriptures” with lots left out) to make a “christian” of them.

“We have rendered God unconscious, you and I” * and our forced passivity is in His image!

{ * paraphrasing a combination of writers }

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Ava Aaronson: Does a church embrace a highly popular pastor who has side chicks and criminal side gigs? Is the church liable for looking the other way? Just to keep the org in place with celebrity pastor, business as usual?

With today’s CHRISTIAN Supreme Court?
Which way do you think they’ll go? GOD or SATAN?

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A Child Is Hurting and Needs Her Grandmother, Not a CEO.

Ever heard of “Sad Beige Moms”?
It was a thing all over Social Media; Influencer mothers whose children were nothing more than online props for their Instagram “Aesthetics”, 24/7.

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Headless Unicorn Guy: Christians are the easiest of Easy Marks.

… because of the trust factor. “Surely, I can trust Pastor” … churchgoers need to get over that! Don’t blindly trust just ANY “Christian” leader, until you know that you know that you can.

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Ava Aaronson: Does a church embrace a highly popular pastor who has side chicks and criminal side gigs? Is the church liable for looking the other way? Just to keep the org in place with celebrity pastor, business as usual?

They are personality cults … too big to fail … actors on a stage with a gullible audience bankrolling them. When the personality is gone, their “ministry” dies.

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As a grandmother, I cannot even fathom this. Throwing your grandchild under the bus, not believing them in such an awful report?! Truly, I cannot wrap my head around it. It is like 1 Timothy 6:10, the whole verse, is coming to light.

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Max,

My dear Max, may I make friendly additions?

Zacharias was high profile, Driscoll was high profile, MacDonald was high profile, Lawson was high profile. You’re conclusion is still correct.

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Ava Aaronson,

“…the law firm of Anderson Associates, Jeff Anderson. They are suing a lux hotel…”
++++++++++++++

found an article about it. Referring to the hotel:

“They knew and they did nothing to protect these girls,” Burke said Tuesday.

“No staff member intervened. Any intervention would have stopped it and it would have saved these girls from ongoing subjugation of criminal activity.

…the Hotel Ivy was in a position to save these girls and it didn’t do so.”
.
.
Substitute “church” for hotel.

https://www.startribune.com/one-of-anton-lazzaros-teen-victims-now-accusing-hotel-ivy-staff-of-helping-him-traffic-her-others-in-plain-sight/601190171

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Muff Potter: Only until the civil authorities finally get a belly full and they lower the boom.

Or until God has had enough, as we race toward 1 Peter 4:17: “For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God.”

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Gus,

Gus,
Sadly share your thoughts & sentiments.
Have personally benefited from the spiritual insight of a number of US theologians and clergy over the years, but now perturbed by what I’m hearing and seeing these days with the incorporating of Christianity generally, and the gospel of Christ specifically, with US nationalism, christian zionism, concentrated calvinism, and the US’s unique form of capitalism.
Spent a short period of time in the States in the 1990s, and noticed nationalism in one form or another within church life, and significantly, how a US’s form of capitalism and marketing permeated all aspects of society and culture, which included the church. Of course human history is littered with opportunist and charlatans, hence no people and culture had been spared from them and there’s plenty of sin
to go around. However, in my humble opinion, it seems that US capitalism is so greedy, divisive, cunning and deceptive, that it makes some people believe they can aspire to it, others think it’s unpatriotic to question or challenge it, while others take the view that it’s hand in glove with Christianity, with the result that the show must go on.

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Headless Unicorn Guy: During my time in-country …

You may know this already … Hal Lindsey died last week.

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Max: Or until God has had enough, as we race toward 1 Peter 4:17: “For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God.”

We are already there. The judgement has begun. Self identifying Christians are right now revealing their hearts to God and people alike. What was hidden is out in the open where everyone can see it. Daystar leaders included. Mega churches included. Christian Nationalists. Ordinary church goers too. My friends, in the US the lines have been drawn by God and people of the world see where we stand. Do we?

Revelation 18:4 “Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “’Come out of her, my people,’ so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;”

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elastigirl: …the Hotel Ivy was in a position to save these girls and it didn’t do so.”
.
.
Substitute “church” for hotel.

We see this repeatedly in church scenarios.

Even if the whole thing ends up in criminal court, the “good” church people, including the “good” from the “good old ‘golden age’ of church”, always side with, sit behind, and support the churchguy predator.

It’s the mob choosing criminal Barabbas over an innocent victim, all over again. Jesus and victims are such losers, apparently. Innocence is underrated, downgraded, and publicly shaded. The criminal is applauded, praised, and lauded.

In a position to save victims, a church, like this hotel, tends to favor and serve the criminal leaders.

There’s something very wrong with this type of hotel (which is top drawer lux) and church.

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I did a deep dive into this one night and know way too much about it. There was a few corrections I wanted to make.

1. So a few years ago when the child was five (now about 9) she came to Suzy and told her in graphic detail that she was being molested. Her mom assumed it was at school. The case was closed because there were no men at the school (the child said the molester was taller than daddy). Her behavior had been changing prior and many people noticed.

2. Around that time many people voiced concerns including her sister (I’m not sure if she meant her biological or his sister Rebekah. I would have to watch their testimony again). Someone witnessed a particular man kissing her and with his hands all over her. Also the nanny was concerned that “Pete” which is an alias name for Joshua Brown, would come over while they were at Daystar to play with the children. There were times when the kids would also be at daystar and mom wasn’t allowed.

3. The vacation you’re speaking of was a family vacation and “Pete” was a family member. Most people believe it’s Pete because his wife (Jonathan’s sister I believe Rachel) doxed the little girl on her social media sickening everyone.

4. Instead of doing an investigation behind Jonathan and Susie’s back they told the investigators to drop the case because they “prayed” and felt like he didn’t do it. Meanwhile they told them it had been found that he was innocent. Lying to the couple and demanding everything get back to normal and they reconcile.

5. There was no power struggle regarding the presidency. Jonathan’s mother was being a tyrant and making requests that didn’t sit well with the couple. Knowing that Suzy still suspected Joshua of SAing her child Joni basically said sign a NDA or you’re being demoted (through a lawyer) that’s why Jonathan responded with that email regarding job security because Joni had already fired Suzy for not wanted to read viewer comments supporting Joni’s new relationship. And he was on the chopping block. They also had already at this point canceled their show and lied saying the couple was on a sabbatical. Of course he would want some job security. Unfortunately that’s his mom and boss and she wasn’t doing either job correctly.

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Elastigirl,

Pretty descriptive (and I tend to agree) – nevertheless, could you share more about your perceptions and how it differs from your home country? And how it showed up in church?

Let me preface my reply of characterizations and comparisons, by saying I am not criticizing and making generalizations of US citizens and US Christians, some of which – Theologians, Historians, Clergy, etc – have been a real blessing for me.
It’s said that Australia takes up to 10 to 20yrs to represent more of US society due to Australia too having a capitalist economy, and significantly, the growing and ongoing influence of US ‘soft power’ through commercialism, marketing and the media. (Rupert Murdoch – Fox – being the reversed exception, and to which I apologize for)
But because of such things as egalitarianism, the belief that the self-made man is a myth, the proven value of compulsory voting, the view that government intervention and regulations remain a positive not a negative, and significantly, the beneficial history of Trade Unions – that initiated such things as, Award living wages, work health & safety, universal health care, aged, sickness, unemployment benefits, higher education participation rates, and who have engaged in an ongoing battle against privatization and outsourcing of public services and utilities – it could be argued that to date, capitalism still remains (but for how long??) an economic system within Australia, as opposed to an all-encompassing ideology within US society that regards individualism as a virtue and those things mentioned, as a form of socialism. (Interesting to note that corporations are the greatest recipients – in one form or another – of taxpayers’ money)
Generally, and more so in the past, church life and clergy (Traditional denominations) within Australia knew very little of about such things as marketing, business acumen, personality profiling, religious entrepreneurship and franchising.
However, with the desire by some tradition clergy to arrest declining attendance in their parishes and denomination, and the growing emergence of independent autonomous autocratic led churches – that were charismatic in nature & originated and influenced by US consumer culture. ‘Church Growth’ ideas and methods from the US were willingly embraced, with the result that marketing thinking and techniques, made God and church life somewhat parallel to other felt need products and services in the marketplace. Hence, Church becoming an environment of ‘customers’ & ‘clients’ in attendance who provide all forms of profit.

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Max,

“Forsake not” is in Hebrews so, contrary to what the fundies say, it is about not casually seceding from specifically synagogue members, which was of practical relevance till 130 or at any rate 70 AD. I assert this because there is nothing to show it is not about this, and the meanings of the two words are the same. The CEO in this sad story has set poisonously insincere terms and it is right for this couple to seek to reclaim their ministry to the spiritually needy.

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Max: You may know this already … Hal Lindsey died last week.

Good old Hal Lindsey (not). The man who had more ex-wives than editions of The Late Great Planet Earth (each with a picture of him and his then-current wife). The man (and his followers) who pretended that earlier editions of The Great Planet Earth didn’t exist to show that he was not a false prophet and THIS TIME he is correct.

According to Hal and others, the Rapture would be in 1981. Or was it 2000? Or 2010? The dates keep changing and expire faster than those on milk cartons. It is hard to keep track of them. What is also interesting is that end-times hysteria/sensationalism/date speculation/etc always seems to ramp up when their are times of economic/social/cultural/political upheavals and shifts. Especially when someone who is not on the same political team as Hal and other Evangelical end-times “prophets (profits)” gets elected. And just as quickly when their team gets elected, all the talk of end-times disappears like flatulence in the wind.

These are but a few of the many reasons why dispensationalism is a flawed, incorrect, and improper
eschatology.

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Elastigirl:
Ian Docker,

“ However, in my humble opinion, it seems that US capitalism is so greedy, divisive, cunning and deceptive, that it makes some people believe they can aspire to it, others think it’s unpatriotic to question or challenge it, while others take the view that it’s hand in glove with Christianity, with the result that the show must go on.”
++++++++++++++

Pretty descriptive (and I tend to agree) – nevertheless,could you share more about your perceptions and how it differs from your home country?And how it showed up in church?

Hi again,
At the risk of coming across as opportunistic and indifferent. It could be argued that the schadenfreud being taken by many US citizens because of the murder of a Health Insurance CEO, is further evidence that US capitalism is now seen by many as an immoral ideology – not an economic system – and that this ideology ‘false god’ which clearly permeates US society & the church, is paradoxically both hated and loved.
The concern of course is that many who claim to be disciples of Jesus, either don’t recognise this false god, or worse still, they love and worship it.

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Ian Docker,

Thank you for your replies. and regarding this one, yes, that occurred to me, too as i read many articles about the situation.

using people’s pain and suffering and denying them relief as the means for financial growth is evil, depraved,…. is there a strong enough word.

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Ian Docker: spiritual wisdom & critical thinking

… are missing from much of the American pew

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Muff Potter,

“using people’s pain and suffering and denying them relief as the means for financial growth is evil, depraved”

“…if you (generic you) let it, their version of christianity will strip you of your humanity.”…
+++++++++++++++++++++

i can think of various theologies that only calculate with pain and suffering (for *other* people – never the theologians themselves), denying them relief in order to solve for ‘biblical’.

if that’s biblical, then who needs it.

unfortunately, people need it in order to be part of the in-group in church world. to have opportunities. and to climb the professional christian ladder for those who are ambitious. sacrificing others, & for some sacrificing themselves & their loved ones.

a pathetic state of affairs.

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‘vote a tyrant into office’

You just had to throw that in, didn’t you? You have drunk the kool-aid and I pray you come to understand that God chose our incoming president for such a time as this. If the other party had won, our nation would be done – Gods covering would have been withheld. You will someday see and know.

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Jan: God chose our incoming president for such a time as this.

Isn’t that what the Young, Restless, and Really Truly Reformed say about themselves?

Or a variant of “Touch Not Mine Anointed!”?

Both of which normally appear on this blog in a negative context.

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dee: I respectfully request that we do NOT discuss politics.

I have a feeling that, in the days ahead, certain corners of the American church will be so mingled with politics that it will be difficult to discuss one without the other. God don’t like it and I don’t either.

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Max,

Yup

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elastigirl: if that’s biblical, then who needs it.

I certainly don’t, I left that steaming pile-o’-horse poo-poo years ago.

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Max: I have a feeling that, in the days ahead, certain corners of the American church will be so mingled with politics that it will be difficult to discuss one without the other

“Days ahead”, Max?
It’s been going full-honk for the past eight years.
American Christians are as thoroughly Politicized as anything in the old Soviet Union.
Including full-honk I Samuel 8: “GIVE US A KING! LIKE ALL THE GOYIM!”

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Headless Unicorn Guy: “Days ahead”, Max?

Oh, it’s going to get much worse.

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Muff Potter: Most of those guys are shamans and nothing more.

If not Sorcerers and Hex-men with the Ultimate in familiar spirits under their control.

Remember the difference between Religion and Magick:
In Magick it’s the mortal Magician who is the one in charge, and the supernatural forces only obey and do his bidding.