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“We all want progress, but if you’re on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; in that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive.” C. S. Lewis
Your daddy’s reconstructionist movement.
Back in the early days of the blog, I wrote about Christian Reconstructionists. Silly me, I thought the movement was sucking fumes and that it had little to do with the Theodudebros of today’s Calvinism. This is a good overview from Wikipedia, with links to the old guys.
Christian reconstructionism is a fundamentalist Calvinist theonomic movement.[1] It developed primarily under the direction of R. J. Rushdoony, Greg Bahnsen and Gary North[2] and has had an important influence on the Christian right in the United States.[3][4] Its central theme is that society should be reconstructed under the lordship of Jesus in all aspects of life.[5] In keeping with the biblical cultural mandate, reconstructionists advocate for theonomy and the restoration of certain biblical laws said to have continued applicability.[6] These include the death penalty not only for murder, but also for idolatry,[7] homosexuality,[8] adultery, witchcraft and blasphemy.[9]
Most Calvinists reject Christian reconstructionism and hold to classical covenant theology, which is the traditional Calvinist view of the relationship between the Old Covenant and Christianity.[10]
Christian reconstructionism is closely linked with postmillennial eschatology and the presuppositional apologetics of Cornelius Van Til.
…The Protestant theologian Francis Schaeffer is linked with the movement by some critics, but some reconstructionist thinkers are highly critical of his positions. Schaeffer himself disavowed any connection or affiliation with reconstructionism, though he did cordially correspond with Rushdoony on occasion.[44] Authors Sara Diamond and Fred Clarkson suggest that Schaeffer shared with reconstructionism the tendency toward dominionism.[26][41][page needed]
Christian reconstructionists[who?] object to the “dominionism” and the “dominion theology” labels, which they say misrepresent their views. Some separate Christian cultural and political movements object to being described with the label “dominionism”, because in their mind the word implies attachment to reconstructionism. In reconstructionism, the idea of “godly” dominion, subject to God, is contrasted with the “autonomous” dominion of mankind in rebellion against God.
Doug Wilson: a modern-day reconstructionist?
I have always hated mentioning Wilson’s name since he hired some fancy lawyer group to scan for all sorts of problems with the articles folks write. I have been writing about him since 2012, and as with all posts, I try to express my opinions carefully. I am one of the few who got Wilson to retract an article. I hadn’t done my background research into a lot of his beliefs. I thought he was just naive that he could get a pedophile cured by marrying a sweet young thing, an experiment that was not successful. I wrote Wilson and asked if he stood by his actions, and he said he did.
I am going to quote from a Baptist News article. Although the article was intended to look at a nominee for Donald Trump’s cabinet, it had some quotes about or by Wilson, and that is my intent in quoting the post. This is not a political statement or endorsement by me. It’s Pete Hegseth’s theology that ought to concern us. Here are some quotes about Wilson.
Wilson leads Christ Church in Moscow, Idaho. The Idaho Capital-Sunsays of him: “Wilson and his allies have a rigid patriarchal belief system and don’t believe in the separation of church and state. They support taking away the right to vote from most women, barring non-Christians from holding office and criminalizing the LGBTQ community.”
…On the “Extremely American” podcast, Wilson recently said one of his goals is to get like-minded people into positions of influence. He later told the Idaho Capital-Sun he supports Hegseth’s nomination: “I was grateful for Trump’s win and believe that it is much more likely that Christians with views similar to mine will receive positions in the new administration.
In 2004, in an article by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) (this is also not a political statement by me), Wilson denied that he was a reconstructionist, but this group disagreed with his self-assessment.
As the Idaho controversy reached a fever pitch, Wilson flatly denied that he was a Christian Reconstructionist. That movement, he told a reporter, was “dead.”
But while Wilson may have slight differences with one or another Reconstructionist, it is false that the movement is dead — and not true that Wilson is no part of it.
In fact, Wilson’s theology is in most ways indistinguishable from basic tenets of Reconstruction. And, going back to the 1990s, both he and co-religionist Steven Wilkins have been tightly linked to America’s leading Reconstructionists.
In the early 1990s, Wilkins began hosting annual Confederate heritage conferences in Monroe. Within a few years, Wilson was a regular speaker.
In a blog called Christian Reconstructionist, it is argued that Wilson himself appears to side with the reconstructionist movement: Doug Wilson, Reconstructionist.
Many years ago I had a conversation with Greg Bahnsen, in which I told him that I was not a reconstructionist.”
But, once Bahnsen clarified for him the difference between a “movement” and a “school of thought”, Wilson found relief. No more guilt-by-association.
…Thus, all these years later, he now confidently proclaims:
“I believe that every Kuyperian Christian is now a part of the reconstructionist school of thought. If you believe, as we do, in “all of Christ for all of life,” then in principle that means that the entire conservative Reformed evangelical world is now reconstructionist or reconstructionist lite…”
He then adds
“And if you are postmillennial, then that makes you self-consciously reconstructionist.”
“Does the authority of Jesus Christ, does the lordship of Christ, extend in practical ways over every field of human endeavor?”
“If you say yes, you are some kind of a reconstructionist.”
And this appears to be how he views the current state of America.
“To point out the obvious, the old America is currently being dismantled. That means that somebody is going to rebuild it, someone is going to reconstruct it.”
…“We are all reconstructionists now.”
“Will that reconstruction be conducted by the totalitarians who tore the old one down?
Or will it be done by Christians who think like Christians should?”
So, is he a reconstructionist, or is he not?
In a book review on Christianity Today Meet the Conservative Evangelicals Practicing ‘Strategic Hibernation’ in the American Northwest.
In September 2020, about 150 Christians gathered to stage an informal Psalm Sing in the parking lot of Moscow, Idaho’s city hall. They were there to protest the local mask mandate.
…Five individuals were cited by police for violating the local order to wear masks, and two were arrested “for suspicion of resisting or obstructing an officer.” One of the event’s organizers was Douglas Wilson, pastor of Christ Church in Moscow, a 900-member congregation with historical connections to Christian Reconstructionism (also known as theonomy), a movement that hopes to see earthly society governed by biblical law.
…In Survival and Resistance in Evangelical America: Christian Reconstruction in the Pacific Northwest, historian Crawford Gribben recounts how in recent decades conservative evangelicals, inspired by assorted strands of theonomy and survivalism, came to settle in the Pacific Northwest. Gribben explores how this group of “born-again Protestants who embrace their marginal status” has thrived in the wilds of Idaho and adjoining states, proposing “strategies of survival, resistance, and reconstruction in evangelical America.”
What is theonomy?
According to the CT post:
Theonomy is a diverse theological movement, arising within a conservative Reformed milieu. Its central ideas were first articulated by Rousas John Rushdoony, a California-based Presbyterian pastor and the son of Armenian immigrants. Gary North, Rushdoony’s estranged son-in-law, is one of many to carry its banner forward into the 21st century. Although theonomy first gained notoriety through its bold application of Mosaic law to the existing political order, more recent adherents have often sanded down its sharp edges.
Reconstructionists believed Christianity needed to make the earth “more Christian” before Christ could return. And they will and must be successful.
Rushdoony challenged this dominant paradigm in the early 1970s, shifting toward a postmillennial view that saw the earthly progress of Christianity as a precursor to Christ’s return.
…The saints were called upon to fight for a Christian society here and now, and their victory in this world was assured.
…Douglas Wilson’s evolving theology was shaped by Rushdoony’s postmillennial vision, although he has subtly distanced himself from the more extreme aspects of Rushdoony’s application of ancient Israel’s legal code.
Education plays a significant role in Reconstructionism.
Again from CT:
Rushdoony first gained attention with his forceful critique of public education
As is well known,
By the 1990s, Wilson had become a widely acknowledged authority on homeschooling, promoting a classical curriculum
I laughed at the writer’s humor in his aside on New St. Andrews.
Wilson helped found both a seminary and a small residential liberal arts college (ambitiously christened New Saint Andrews) in Moscow. Pacific Northwest theonomists separated themselves from the public school system as part of their strategy to transform society at large. “Before we can enlist in the culture war,” Wilson commented, “we have to have a culture. And that culture must be Christian.”
To promote their educational ideas and socially conservative vision, Wilson and company have creatively used both conventional book publishing (establishing Canon Press) and the internet. Behind all these ambitious efforts is the ultimate goal of cultural renewal or reconstruction. As the community’s organ, Credenda Agenda, put it bluntly, publishing “is warfare.” This campaign included a well-publicized series of debates between Wilson and atheist journalist Christopher Hitchens in 2009 over whether Christianity has been good for the world.
For the lawyers who review all things, Doug Wilson, I repeat, claims he is not a reconstructionist. I have to admit that his denials seem a bit hollow to me. I want to return to this subject in the coming weeks since I have become convinced that the old-fashioned “Rishdoony reconstructionism” may be morphing into a Wilson quasi-reconstructionism, which I hasten to add is not really reconstructionism, according to Wilson.
If you want to hear more on this subject, listen to these podcasts from the Sons of Patriarchy, which feature information about Doug Wilson’s enterprise.
The most recent episode of Sons of Patriarchy (Nov. 25) goes into detail on the history of reconstructionism. There is more subtlety involved in the various strands of it, and the podcast says Wilson would be more accurately titled “restorationist” as opposed to Rushdoony’s reconstructionist. Partly the difference refers to the timeframe in which societal/governmental change is said to occur – over many centuries for reconstruction and over years for restoration. The podcast also shows the influence on various other ideas such as quiverfull and homeschooling.
https://www.sonsofpatriarchy.com/e/the-reconstruction-of-nationalism-1732513855/
Arlene(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
I guess Jesus didn’t mean anything when he said, “My kingdom is not of this world.” I believe in being salt and light, but I don’t believe in heaven on earth until Jesus returns.
Linn(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Like I’ve opined here before at TWW, if these guys ever accrued the power they crave, it would be as brutal a dictatorship as any the world has seen.
Muff Potter(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Reconstructionists believed Christianity needed to make the earth “more Christian” before Christ could return. And they will and must be successful.
Golly. Sounds like the Holy Trinity is pretty helpless. Reconstructionists have to jump into the tug-of-war game and help them out, or Jesus will be either late to the party or a no-show????
Nancy2(aka Kevlar)(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
https://thirdmill.org/files/reformedperspectives/hall_of_frame/HOF.Hale.Derrida%20and%20VanTil.6.30.04.html
The detail is good if you can appraise it. Van Til as cited appears wrong about Husserl whom he muddles with Heidegger, a trend Derrida tries to counter. On Husserl I recommend Walter Hopp (and Dallas Willard has also been commended).
The fashionable “apologetists” I consider fundamentalists because they conflate relating with God with thinking about things; these need to go together in whatever variable proportion we each provisionally settle upon, from 0:100 to 50:50.
If you throw in the methodical realism (MR) of Etienne Gilson – a layman who clashed with the hierarchy – and MR is something normal people used to do when they were not lying – everything fits better.
Grouping the challenging mind-opener Kierkegaard, a preacher qualified to appraise other preachers, with the Heidegger-like William James as one of those Wikipedia articles fleetingly mentions some people do, is not true to life.
The earlier apologetics was supposed to be intended as background for people who are already (real) Christ believers.
Materialists (fundamentalists) like their version to browbeat the public with, denigrating the beauty in their subject matter, because they can’t evangelise, as they deny Holy Spirit.
(John Lennox has the genuine evangelising gift, when he forgets to apologetise, if only he would resist being diverted.)
The restorationists, whom I’ve had continual brushes with, don’t care about discretion in mask wearing, and are out to discredit classical education, let alone the Bible. They want to destroy the quality and activity of belief in anything everywhere, and freedom, altogether.
The “nice” versions whom I’ve met (New Frontiers), are still shoring that up at half an arm’s length by dimwitted lack of critique.
Even Douglas Geivett and Holly Pivec say, and as the fathers the restorationists aren’t grateful to said, church leaders are NOT meant to rule in the earth. Restorationists have no concept of prayer: they reject Jesus outright (a fairly recent fashion was to turn “prayer” into an ad hominem weapon). John Stott was a restorationist because he was going to influence society by taking over prominent denominations.
Now we get “christian nationalists” who “aren’t christian nationalists”, ESS who “aren’t ESS”, and so on.
They turned themselves into label only. I think we should stop following zeroes.
Michael in UK(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
HAHA!! My thoughts, exactly!
Elizabeth Klein(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
What I find most disturbing is that individuals and orgs like Doug Wilson use being “written off” as “fringe” to further justify their “system” to the faithful…. Over time they seem to be able to infiltrate “main line thinking” of larger denominations as just being a “conservative” strain. In fact, the core of what they think, IMHO is quite often heretical… Like eternal submission of The Son..
As Max likes to say, the masses do not really know what is in the Bible…. Also, it seems many/most people do not want to take the time/effort to think/reflect on what they are taught…That allows good “salesmen” to deceive the masses..
Jeffrey Chalmers(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
This seems like a distinction without much of a difference to me. I firmly believe Christians have no business seeking to wield the weapons of empire, whatever the time frame. And if anything, a shorter time frame is worse. If you expect to tear down and rebuild all of society in a matter of years, how are you planning to have that happen peacefully?
Wilson can blather all he likes about not being a reconstructionist. Maybe he isn’t, technically. Who cares? This individual used his spiritual authority to protect a pedophile and knowingly influenced a young woman to marry the guy (in his mind automatically for life and automatically making lots of kids!) without telling her the truth. And per Dee sees no problem with what he did. This is evil, full stop. He shouldn’t have power and influence over Moscow’s sewer system, let alone any other humans’ actual lives.
CMT(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
“When the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on earth?” (Luke 18:8)
At the rate we are going, I’d say Jesus would find more folks faltering than faithful. I doubt that He will find Christians ruling every aspect of life. Jesus came to redeem and work through individuals not institutions.
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Scary to think that the Department of Defense might be indirectly influenced by Pastor Doug. But, I suppose that all federal agencies take on the personality, politics and philosophy of their leaders.
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
“Reconstructionists believed Christianity needed to make the earth “more Christian” before Christ could return.”
Have these guys ever read the Book of Revelation? Even the churches mentioned there before Christ’s returned aren’t “more Christian”!
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
By the way:
HAPPY THANKSGIVING, Wartburgers!
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
But he does, and that’s the point.
Personally?
I have zero sympathy for grown adults who willingly put themselves under a tyrant like Wilson.
Muff Potter(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Bad actors would have no stage if it weren’t for a gullible audience willing to buy tickets to their show.
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Muff Potter,
Hi Muff. Looks like you and I are the only ones tuned into TWW on this Thanksgiving morning. I’m recovering from the flu so we had to postpone our family Thanksgiving festivities. Soooo … I’m here because I’m not all there. Wishing you and yours a great day!
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
I was checking to see what others might be thinking this morning.
Happy Thanksgiving. Despite all the crazy, we do have much to be thankful for.
Linn(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
I hope you get to feeling better. Suggestion: don’t watch the Cowboys play this afternoon, it won’t help your recovery (even if they win).
Mark R(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Max,
Hay Max, I am “here” even mentioned you a post above… Happy T-day
Jeffrey Chalmers(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Where the lid flew off a flaming hot pressure cooker, the horse skidaddled outta the barn, and then the train plunged down off the rails into a deep dark abyss.
They can posture all they want as “pro family” or “pro Christian values” … pro Apple Pie, Super Bowl, and saintly silent Mama cooking chubby hubby’s vittles over a steaming hot stove back in the kitchen …
How they handle real people, real children of God, is at best arrogant ignorance, at worst pure evil.
Ava Aaronson(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Jeffrey Chalmers,
and Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours Jeffrey!
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
= far right of the New Calvinist movement … fundamentalist wickedness
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
yeah, I’m too sick to watch that one … I’ll be tuned into the Chiefs vs. Raiders game
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
whoops … game is tomorrow, not today … I’m sick out of my head, I guess
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Ava Aaronson,
Ava hits on a key observation that I have observed throughout most of my life. To many “Christain leaders” are all focused on their personal, or tribal, Theology.. and not enough on the what the word “Christian means”.. i.e. CHRIST LIKE..
Now, I am far from a “Christ like” person, but I recognize this and am willing to tell the world, and all of you… And, ironically the Apostle Paul clearly states we should have “the mind, and actions, of Christ”.. Yet, some much of what we read about here on the TWW are “leaders” that are not only “not Christ like”, but are the opposite.. With abuse of children, and women, andthe covering up of it when it is some in your “Tribe” is about as “anti-Christ-like” as it gets.. (and in the case of Doug Wilson justifying Slavery in the US)
Jeffrey J Chalmers(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Same to you and yours Max.
And to all Wartburgers.
Muff Potter(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Muff Potter,
Just like Calvin’s Geneva.
CynthiaW(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
The Southern Baptist Convention was founded by Calvinist slaveholders in the South (including slave-holding “pastors” and deacons). They firmly believed that Sovereign God was on their side during the Civil War until early Confederate victories turned to defeat. Following the War, Southern Baptists distanced themselves from the Founders’ theology, remaining distinctly non-Calvinist in belief and practice for 150 years until Al Mohler and his band of New Calvinists began dragging the SBC back to its theological roots without asking millions of non-Calvinist members if they wanted to go there!
Mohler and Wilson share the same stage occasionally: https://www.christianpost.com/news/doug-wilson-al-mohler-discuss-christianity-and-state-at-natcon.html
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Let’s face it, there’s not much going on in American “Christianity” that is Christian these days. Church as Entertainment and Church as Indoctrination have replaced the True Church. Few Sunday-morning church folks are Ambassadors for Christ when they hit the road on Monday. There is too much personal/tribal theology and not enough Gospel in American pulpits these days; church members are not being perfected and equipped to do the work of the ministry (Ephesians 4:12).
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Thank you Max. Christian nationalism, dominionism, reconstructiveism… all just different angles of the same thing- men wanting to wield power and control over others and using religion to do so. Which is dangerous because as we’ve seen with the Taliban people, don’t question it when they’ve tied their eternal standing to how things work out in the local government on earth.
I have been going over the problems of religious nationalism in my mind again and again for the last six months as we’ve watched the meteoric rise of this philosophy in our public discourse. I am horrified, alarmed, and distressed at how these ideas are taking hold in churches across the country, and the resulting decisions it is leading to. It’s a shift in worldview which has serious consequences in civil society.
Jesus never told us to take over an earthly kingdom. On the contrary, he said his kingdom wasn’t of this world.
He never told us to control the moral decisions of others. On the contrary, he told us the logs in our own eyes were far bigger than the specs in others.
And if all this wasn’t enough the idea that adultery should be punished by death is astonishing coming from leaders and churches who cover up rape.
Fisher(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Christians would do well to remember that even though ALL authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Jesus, Satan is still “the ruler of this world” (John 12:31), “the prince and power of the air” (Ephesians 2:2), and “the god of this world” (2 Corinthians 4:4). God restricts Satan’s power on earth, but the enemy is in charge nevertheless until Christ returns to strip him of his kingdom and authority once and for all. Attempting to thwart God’s plan through “Christian nationalism, dominionism, reconstructionism” is a futile endeavor. We don’t win the final victory until the events of the Book of Revelation unfold, no matter how many religious or political hoops we jump through. Yes, Christians would do well not to listen to the leaders of this movement, but to spend time reading their Bibles … to test and try the spirits at play here “to see whether they are from God” (1 John 4:1). The Great Commission is still our mission, not Christian nationalism.
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Fisher,
I agree… double sigh..
Jeffrey Chalmers(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Fisher,
In England the old boy “influencer” and muscular christianity system of targetting the nation now gaining legs as con evo (which doesn’t care about the morals of people who marry in the same sex, that’s just an excuse to lecture) has been dominionist and hence unscriptural all along.
It blended in sixty and more years ago through people with broadcasting and other influence. Drawing blood is a bit impolite, and manipulating boys occasionally gets “obvious”, hence the “revelations” of 2019-21, but the browbeating and patronising was and is supposed to be part of it all along.
At 17 I read a book of J Stott’s and my blood ran cold – I’d now say I saw in it no Holy Spirit proposed for our lives (contrary to Jesus and OT promise). My pals were in the opposite camp and more recently it is more and more effort to proceed no nearer than the fringe, and with fewer and fewer pals.
It translates easily to the fake charismatic and consumerism because in media-based relationships the big shouts no matter how “unextreme” by “standard standards” have got the charism of lording it.
Michael in UK(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Matthew 23 is about people like Wilson, Rushdoony, etc.
Nancy2(aka Kevlar)(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
PS…. does anyone besides me feel like a stuffed turkey tonight?
… stuffed with turkey, ham, broccoli salad, sweet potato casserole, green beans, gravy, mashed potatoes, corn, coconut cake, pecan pie, pumpkin pie ……. the list goes on. We ate well. Definitely better than we deserve.
I hope all of you had a Happy Thanksgiving …. good conversations and good eats with family/friends.
We’ll have leftovers tomorrow…. ah, but some good leftovers!
Nancy2(aka Kevlar)(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
In case you missed the Internet kerfuffle, Doug and friends put this out.
https://antiochdeclaration.com/
I will let the reader figure out which competing context is appropriate for reading the document. If you said “Whatever” and moved on, I wouldn’t blame you.
Grumpy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Personally, I want to know where Douglas Wilson is getting the money to engage Clare Locke LLP to write threatening letters on his behalf. Clare Locke is a white shoe law firm and not cheap. As for Mr. Wilson, he appears to be the wannabe Pope of the Palouse. He bears watching.
Muslin, fka Dee Holmes(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Addendum: To the establishment, drawing blood is impolite …
Grumpy,
Bad planning is a multiracial activity, as far as I’ve seen.
The Christ killers were a handful of officials, one time. Individuals of every race have now been placed in the equal excellent position to accept the whole Gospel (if only it would be offered) and not “part”.
“Influencing” is dialectical materialism: memes to only evoke the equal and opposite.
Lengthy and vague references to various pincer movements (I know how those work first hand) and religious-sounding phrases, minimum as maximum, and short on overt trust in dual action Holy Spirit in you & me; also the reality behind the slogans “total depravity”, and “prevenient grace”, which is not the same as saving grace, is the same.
Hence potentially or actually equivocating, like any “moderates”. Let my yea be yea and my nay be nay.
Michael in UK(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Peter Wagner, Bill Johnson, John Macarthur, Wayne Grudem, in their overlapping styles, they were all put up to it by Carl Henry and John Stott.
Is there now a gut feeling “influencing” economics hasn’t worked (or rather, their method gave spiritual legs to their secular lookalikes)?
Michael in UK(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Grumpy,
What is the kerfuffle?
The actual document reeks of pseudo intellectualism..
Jeffrey Chalmers(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
It’s always sad to watch someone who is not very smart try to come across as intellectual … there’s been an outbreak of that in New Calvinism. Just because one has a gift for gab doesn’t necessarily mean they have anything to say.
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
First off, I am not a supporter of Wilson or reconstructionism or restorationism.
But let’s be cautious here: for a preterist or some partial preterists, satan stopped being lord of this world when Jesus ascended into heaven. The world is not going to just get worse and worse until the second coming. For them Revelation is not about our future, but was about the future of those alive before AD 70. It is complicated and I am not a great person to explain it, but it has long been held as being a non heretical belief of the end times.
It can be a valid theology. It can be a joyous and healthy one. And yes, if we obey Jesus and His teachings we will see the world get better. So far so good.
Where this new crop of armchair theologians mess up is in the how. They want to strong arm everyone into obedience, kill off all who disagree, and rule with an iron fist. They have left the Kingdom of God for a rulership of men, and I do mean males, preferably white and calvinistic.
If they understood their own theology, as many postmillenialists did in the past, they would be building schools for all, building hospitals and orphanages and inventing vaccines and cutting edge medicines, getting fresh water to those without and fighting famine.
The evils and vices they decry are evils and vices the Bible decries, and Christ decried. So fighting them is good. But you don’t set out to kill the sinner, rather to see them converted. Yes, that might mean you don’t pick them for your best friend since you are not Jesus and can be led astray. But neither do you stone them. You allow them their natural consequences rather than celebrate their sin, and when their world crashes as it will, you show up with the basin and towel.
So their root theology can be healthy. Their hubris gets in the way and they go 180 degrees away from from preterism, post preterism, or postmillenial theology.
Those theologies sent missionaries into Appalachia and the Ozarks in the late 1800s and early 1900s. Not just preachers, but teaching farming, reading and writing and arithmetic, science, health, hygiene, and yes, morals.
And then the pushback from the granny women and moonshiners led us into the pit of fundamentalist futurism, where all us “in the know” are really ordained by God to rule the roost knowing that eventually we will fly away oh glory and then God will really give those that don’t agree with us a hell on earth and a good whuppin.
Balderdash. Jesus has won the battle. We just need to do obey Him and do the mop up. Oh, and He freed all the slaves: black, white, male, female, and dare I say it, noncalvinists?
I wish we had a thousand happy hopeful postmillenials in our county instead of being awash with sour angry futurists disappointed the eclipse wasn’t the rapture, or the election wasn’t, or the last blood moon wasn’t.
linda(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
I can’t believe people look back at the Crusades, one of the worst things done in the name of God, and think it was a good thing. White supremacy has always been an underlying problem in Christendom and the (white) American church, there seems to be a resurgence in explicit endorsements. If you see someone saying “Christ is King” online, you should know why they are doing it:
https://www.premierchristianity.com/news-analysis/explained-why-is-everyone-up-in-arms-about-christ-is-king/17450.article
Observant Outsider(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
I’d quibble with “always”, since I seriously doubt that a majority of the first disciples were white. But I know what you meant.
Nick Bulbeck(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
My apologies if I duplicate what someone else has written….I’ve not yet finished reading all the comments…. 🙂
Happy Belated (American 🙂 ) Thanksgiving from a Canadian living in Canada. 🙂
And I hope you’re feeling better, Max. 🙂
FWIW, I watched the Green Bay Packers versus the Miami Dolphins. 🙂 The weather they played in wasn’t very good, but — and no offence intended to the teams, fans, coaches, or anyone else 🙂 — the weather wasn’t anywhere near as bad as some of the football games I watched just before the Super Bowl last year. 🙂 And me being me, I’d have offered some of the food cooked up for the MVPs of the game to ALL the players, coaches, water men and women, Melissa Stark (the CTV host / reporter on the field), medical people, refs (you get the idea 🙂 )….and if they said “No.”, I’d be OK with that. 🙂
As for Doug Wilson and his ilk (the patriarchy-types, the preppers, the survivalists, the white supremacists, the — and my apologies if I offend anyone — the National Rifle Association-types, etc.): They’ve already infiltrated many places, not just locally, but world-wide. And MANY of them, under the guise of being Christian. They’re certainly not acting and / or being Christ-like. And to poke one small hole — of many — in their arguments: Have they ever considered that Jesus Christ wasn’t white?
researcher(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Life long Packer fan here.
I was born about 50 miles northwest of Lambeau Stadium.
Muff Potter(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
We had lentil salad for main course, because only our son who is vegetarian came home. But it was good and mixed well with the home-made rolls!
readingalong(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Me thinks ‘white supremacy’ is just the latest bogey-man in the ‘christian’ closet.
(it used to be unauthorized sex)
If not looked at rationally, it can lead to all kinds of Orwellian charges flung about.
Muff Potter(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
ION: Cricket
The First Test between New Zealand and England (or Englandshire, as it’s known in Scotland) is a bit of a strange one to follow from here, as Christchurch is 11 hours ahead of me, so play happens while I’m in bed… onyway, the tourists were in a very strong position at stumps on Day 3. Kane Williamson top-scored with 93 in the Kiwis’ first innings total of 348. Harry Brook starred in Englandshire’s response, with a fine 171 – ably supported by an uncharacteristically steady innings of 80 from Ben Stokes, whose strike rate of under 55 was probably a first for the normally-swashbuckling all-rounder.
Englandshire closed on 499, courtesy of no fewer than 8 dropped catches. To make matters worse for the hosts, they were then reduced to 155-6, with the talismanic Williamson trapped lbw by Chris Woakes for 61.
This being New Zealand vs Englandshire, there is plenty of room for further twists – the visitors are favourites from this position, but the New Zealand tail could easily wag and leave the tourists with a challenging run chase, albeit on a batting surface that is improving. More tomorrow…
NB That’s Christchurch in New Zealand, of course, not Christchurch on the south coast of Englandshire where my Gran used to live.
Nick Bulbeck(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Nick Bulbeck,
I guess I should be more specific: “Christendom” as in the spreading of Christianity through conquest, forced conversion, and erasure of native culture. Certainly the early church was not like this (Paul even criticized those forcing new believers to adopt Jewish cultural practices like circumcision) but Constantinople began this perversion and weaponized the cross.
I would recommend “Jesus and John Wayne” for more recent church history’s white supremacist influences.
Observant Outsider(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Linn,
We are troublesome subjects.
I sometimes wonder whether it might be that when Jesus defeats the final enemy and hands the Kingdom over to the Father (of which Paul writes in 1 Cor 15:24-30), it will be with a huge sigh of relief.
Samuel Conner(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Observant Outsider,
Christendom gets a bad press. My understanding is that the First Crusade was in response to a request from Byzantine Christians for help opposing/expelling The Seljuk Turks who had taken Jerusalem and “The Holy Land” from the Arab/Muslim forces who had conquered the region several hundred years earlier.
Lowlandseer(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Jeff, it’s actually not about the podcast.
The context is a pastoral dispute between two Doug-adjacent pastors that went public. One of which is a signer. Or is it? Perhaps, per another signer, it’s about “antisemitism and wacky racial stuff.” That would be a separate but overlapping issue from the pastoral dispute above. So I am not sure there is even unity of purpose among the authors of the document. IMO, the whole thing lacks clarity. Feature or bug? I suspect a mix of both.
The guys over at Protestia have as coherent a summary as I have seen, despite their bias. Many involved parties have hours and hours of blogging back and forth on this; I have NOT interacted with it all. So take everything above with a grain of internet salt.
https://protestia.com/2024/11/25/the-absurd-ioch-declaration/
Grumpy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Muff Potter,
‘Racism’ is the new charge of ‘witchcraft’ (Massachusetts, late 1600(s)) in American protestantism.
Today’s version of Goody Proctor will fare no better if the charge (racism) is leveled.
Muff Potter(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Paul was explicit in this, too: “What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you. 1Cor 5: 12-13
So many evangelicals have gotten this totally backwards. They create enemies for their congregants to judge and attempt to restrain by he power of the state, while neglecting to carefully judge those within the church causing so much harm through abuse of power, including sexual abuse.
It’s like a magician directing the eyes of the audience. If they look where he’s planned for them to look, the won’t see the “trick.” Encouraging congregants to look outside the church is said to be “standing strong against the culture.” People can feel brave and heroic for condemning those outside the church while protecting their own comfort by refusing to remove the evil within the church.
Eyewitness(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
I liked all the information CTV mentioned about Lambeau Stadium during the football game. 🙂 And the Packers played really well. 🙂 The Miami Dolphins had what I call a “bad hair day”. 🙂 They weren’t playing very well, and I don’t think all of it could be attributed to injuries or the weather. 🙂
I’m maybe a little bit weird 🙂 ….I don’t have a favourite team, and I cheer everyone on equally. 🙂 One of the advantages of living alone and watching TV by myself. 🙂
I DO prefer American football over Canadian football. 🙂 And I think the Canadian Football League could take some lessons from American football on how to look after and monitor their players injuries (or potential injuries) better — especially concussions.
researcher(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Soccer is really “football”
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Grumpy,
Look for the Beelzebub declaration (they can’t spell Beersheba), then Corinth, then Damascus, then Endor . . .
Michael in UK(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
There were a combo of things going on but the First Crusade did a good jobs of slaughtering innocents; the massacre after the taking of Jerusalem seems to have been fairly horrific even by the standards of the day and it started with massacring Jews in several European cities. The Byzantines weren’t too happy with the Crusaders either (see Anna Komnene’s Alexiad) once they arrived.
Erp(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Max,
I just thought I’d clarify, in case anyone is confused by what I wrote….and thank you, Max, for — unintentional as it might have been 🙂 — bringing it to my attention that readers might misunderstand what I wrote in my earlier comment. 🙂
I was meaning actual football, not soccer (which I also like, but not as much as football 🙂 ). In Canadian football, some of the rules are different (omitting a bunch of useless details 🙂 ) than American football. 🙂
researcher(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Remember your Semantics, My Dear Wormwood.
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Just like every Islamic Republic since Iran.
Create the Perfect Godly Society and God will be able to return and lock it in Forever.
But “This time we WILL achieve True Communism!
Because This Time the Right People (guess who?) Will Be In Charge!”
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Regarding “PENETRATE! COLONIZE! CONQUER! PLANT!” Wilson, he of the sternum-length beard and Andrew Tate-sized cigars…
Some years ago, I came across a poem/parable called “The Goddess of Everything Else”, a trialogue between a Goddess of Cancer, a Goddess of Everything Else, and all Life. Here’s a video of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbwp4PbWYzw
Of the two Goddesses in the poem, which of the two does Apostle Wilson and Christian Reconstructionists/Dominionists sound more like?
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
And after a generation or two living in such a Godly CHRISTIAN Nation, the name “Jesus Christ” will carry the exact same baggage as the name “Adolf Hitler” and the Stars & Stripes the exact same baggage as the Hakenkreuz.
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Headless Unicorn Guy,
P.S. In the early 1950s, author Robert Heinlein coined the name “Future History” for his series of SF stories set at different periods in the same fictional future timeline.
The entire 21st Century of this timeline was noted “Religious Dictatorship in USA”, from its establishment with the election of televangelist Reverend Nehemiah Scudder sometime between 2000 & 2020 (“blood at the polls, blood in the streets, and there never was another election) and its 2100 overthrow in the novella Revolt in 2100.
Interesting thing: In the stories set after Revolt in 2100, religion is never mentioned, not even in passing. Not a single word.
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
“Is no ‘Slavery’ in Holy Russia. Here we call it ‘Servitude’.”
— one of the Tsars
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)