There are wolves within, and there are sheep without.― St. Augustine of Hippo, City of God
In September, Christianity Today wrote Deep in the Heart of Megachurch Country, Dallas Mourns a Summer of Pastor Scandals. Media groups and social media commentors are noticing what appears to be a slew of resignations and firings of wayward pastors in the area. One might be tempted to think something is “really wrong” or different in churches in the Heart of Texas as opposed to my area of North Carolina known as the Triangle.
“It’s strangely localized and time-bound. I don’t know how to account for that,” said Rob Collingsworth at Criswell College in Dallas, who is plugged into Baptist church circles through his work with the Southern Baptists of Texas Convention. The churches involved in these scandals are either nondenominational or part of the Southern Baptist Convention.
Victims of abuse or part of a demonic attack of the church?
On this blog, some hurting and angry congregants of these churches commented that what is happening is a “spiritual attack.” In evangelical parlance, this means that Satan (or his minions) has targeted these churches because those churches were effectively doing God’s work, and Satan doesn’t like it. I have heard of prayer meetings attempting to “bind Stan” from being able to perform his evil deeds. Yet, we find no evidence that Jesus taught such a doctrine. Here is a good explanation of Matthew 18:18.
It is the prevalence of such beliefs that hurt those who are exposing the abuse that they endured. Were Cindy Cleminshire, Melissa Hobson, and others in cahoots with Satan when they said pastors molested them? Is it any wonder that approximately 85% of the brave and beautiful survivors of such assaults that I have interviewed at TWW leave the church?
The abuser is quickly forgiven and celebrated, and the victims are ignored.
How many members of churches offer cheap grace to the offender while paying lip service to the victim? It was stunning that some female adults at my former SBC church came to the trial of Doug Goodrich and sat on his side in the courtroom. They did not sit on the side where some young teen boys bravely testified to their abuse. Those women asked for leniency for the offender. I have heard many of those teen boys grew up and struggled.
The church is a business, so those on the low rungs of the organization, the pew sitters, are not “in the loop.”
DFW is home to some of the largest evangelical megachurches in the US. I spent ten years in Dallas and was stunned at the number of monumental churches. The CT article made a fascinating observation.
And Dallas megachurches operate like large businesses, said Denison, who now leads the Denison Forum in Dallas. He sees church responses, which often include quick resignations and little explanation, as “fiduciary protection of the institution.”
“Dallas is only here because of banking during the frontier era and now oil,” he said. “It’s a very business-centric sort of context. As a result, everything is run in a business sense.”
That means these churches have resources and a sort of professionalism when it comes to dealing with a crisis. That could be used to cover up wrongdoing to protect the institution, but it also could be an asset, Denison said.
I take my church life quite seriously. If a pastor suddenly disappeared and I was told to “Trust us on the details,” I would demand answers. Demanding answers is what a person who cares about the church would do. However, in megachurchville, members are often considered “giving units,” and pastors are merely podcasts on legs. Members of large churches may never get to know their senior pastor except for a quick handshake on the way out the sanctuary door. This is not a church. It’s a well-run social club that makes tons of money.
So, it’s a mess. What’s going on?
Jesus told us there would be predators in the church.
My former SBC church began to attack me and others who asked some hard questions about the abuser’s prolific history and access to young teen boys. We believed the church had warnings about this former SEBTS seminary student and ignored them because it was just “locker room talk.” Like Sgt. Schultz, the church, said, “I know nothing. I saw nothing.” We became the problem, and most of us left the church.
I know some people will use the church for their benefit. They will hurt decent people in the church by their words and actions. Why are we surprised when this happens? (I know I was when my church attacked me for asking questions about a predator’s unfettered access to many teen boys.) We overlook the harsh words of Jesus, who told us to beware the reprobate in the pulpit/church in Matthew 7: 15-21 NIIV:
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day,‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
I believe there are thousands of pastors and church leaders who are wolves. Jesus told us these predators were cleverly disguised as harmless sheep within the church. Sadly, I predict many more people will be injured by these exploiters who use the people and institutions of the church for their gain.
Take a look at my quote at the top. St Augustine recognized this as the bishop of Hippo Regius in Roman North Africa from 396 to 430.
There are wolves within, and there are sheep without.
During my experience at my former church, I began to understand that I could not and would not “trust” the authority of a pastor until I could observe him for an extended time. It took me 2 1/2 years to become comfortable enough to join my Lutheran church. I wanted to be sure that I was looking at a true shepherd. Yes, we all have fallen and must confess our sins regularly. I was not looking for a perfect church or leader, but I was determined not to overlook those whom Jesus called the evildoers. I am still determined to watch out for them.
I still believe in the church, but some will use it for personal benefit. The more I looked, the more I found evidence of those who Jesus spoke about so long ago. I was startled by how many predators were present when I started blogging. I am less so the longer I do this. I think we all need to take a step back and look at the challenging words of our Lord. Matthew 18:2-6.NIV
Jesus invited a little child to stand among them. 3“Truly I tell you,” He said, “unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5And whoever welcomes a little child like this in My name welcomes Me.
6 But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
These words should be preached from the pulpit regularly. It’s time we understood what the church is up against, both inside and outside. We need to look at the whole counsel of Scripture. It’s far too easy to focus on the “nice” verses.
So, DFW churches reflect the state of the church in general, be it California, the Triange, the Triad, Florida, New England, etc. There will be wolves in those places, far more than we could have imagined. It’s time for the church to wake up and take Jesus’s warnings seriously. I predict there are many more surprises in store for the church.
I grew up in a Dallas megachurch-one of the largest, wealthiest, and most politically influential churches within the PCA. When I broke my silence regarding my abuse in 2016, everything that followed left me even more scarred than I already was after 28 years of abuse, wary and distrustful of anyone within church leadership, and feeling like the place that once was a refuge was now a battlefield filled w/hidden minefields and traps. I haven’t attended church since 2022. I’m still too raw.
Kati(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Why do wolves get such a bad rap?
When in actual real life, they are noble creatures.
They have an actual society with social cohesion.
Sorry for the mini-rant, but it just galls me that they are always skewered as the baddies in most ‘Christian’ circles.
Muff Potter(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Kati,
Kati, I am sorry for what you’ve gone through. Not surprised you can’t bring ourself to attend church of any kind. I wish you peace. May you experience the kindness and love of God in many ways right where you are at.
Fisher(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
My sympathies to you for how wolves among sheep have violated you, and then the institution betrayed you.
Jesus our Shepherd is our refuge.
Jesus’ followers are also our refuge.
As Jesus said, there are wolves preying on and among the sheep in our church institutions. Wolves are neither sheep nor the Body of Christ. They are predators of sheep.
It’s good to be careful regarding participating in religious institutions aka church. Anything and everything goes. Armour is required to be safe.
Regarding attending church, the followers of Jesus ARE the church, while the institutions are simply institutions that may be safe or may be dangerous. Are the leaders actually followers of Jesus or predators of the followers of Jesus? The question. Meeting people in church institutions, the question is, Is this camou and cosplay or is this person a follower of Jesus? Are they an agent of satan or Jesus?
Ava Aaronson(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
“The abuser is quickly forgiven and celebrated, and the victims are ignored.”
It’s a strange day in the American church. In cults of personality, abusive personalities are exalted while the personhood of their victims is disparaged.
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
“The church is a business, so those on the low rungs of the organization, the pew sitters, are not “in the loop.””
Pew sitters are only in the loop when the offering plate loops through the pew. Without their tithes and offerings, the business would not exist.
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Max,
Amen Max! But unfortunately the “leadership” is really good at finding out what people will pay to hear, and saying and teaching that.
Calvinism is really popular in the SBC because it tells people they are special, chosen by God for Heaven and to rule here, and chosen to the exclusion of “those people” whoever that might be.
Very much still the southern white looking for a way to be superior to someone, anyone. Very much still the southern white looking to prove God Almighty intended for them to be rich, successful, and in ownership of lesser people. (Not all were black who were lesser, by the way.)
They vehemently fight the concept of free will because with free will comes accountability for one’s actions. And they want no accountability for their own wrongs even while earnestly seeking the punishment of the wrongs of others.
In other words, they still want to be massa over the plantation. Only now the rows are pews or chairs instead of cotton or tobacco.
linda(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
“Members of large churches may never get to know their senior pastor except for a quick handshake on the way out the sanctuary door.”
My mother was a member of Bellevue Baptist Church when Adrian Rogers was pastor there. At the time, Bellevue had 25,000+ members. Pastor Rogers visited her and prayed with her when she was hospitalized. Real-deal pastors find time to do what they are called to do … to love and minister to the flock. Too many mega-pastors now tweet their lives away with dudebros at the coffee shop … never visiting the sick, never praying with the dying, never getting to know church members … at best, they delegate pastoral responsibilities to others. “Going” into ministry is a world of difference from being “called” into ministry. A pulpit is not a place to perform; it is a sacred place of service to others in Jesus’ name.
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
“During my experience at my former church, I began to understand that I could not and would not “trust” the authority of a pastor until I could observe him for an extended time. It took me 2 1/2 years to become comfortable enough to join my Lutheran church. I wanted to be sure that I was looking at a true shepherd.”
My wife and I talked about this once following our long tenure of doing church in America. As we reflected on the various pastors we had in different places we lived, we agreed that a minimum of 2 years was required to really get to know both pulpit and pew. What is first observed when visiting a new church is not always what it really is. It takes time to sort out the genuine from the counterfeit; to discern legitimate authority vs. illegitimate authority.
“Beloved, do not believe every spirit [speaking through a self-proclaimed prophet]; instead test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets and teachers have gone out into the world.” (1 John 4:1 AMP)
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
I am so sorry for the pain you have experienced. There are a lot of wolves out there pretending they care about the hurting when all they really care about is themselves.
dee(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Yet the theobros want us to trust them immediately because the “Bible says so.” The Bible exists to shore up their power base. The ones who really care don’t care about “power.”
dee(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
I have heard others say this about Rogers.
dee(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Kati,
Kati, I am so sorry you experienced this. I prayed for you just now … that God will give you peace and strength. Jesus loves you.
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Wolves in Captivity (i.e. Wolf Prison Gangs) or Wolves in the Wild (i.e. Family Groups)?
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
“Were Cindy Cleminshire, Melissa Hobson, and others in cahoots with Satan when they said pastors molested them?””
Dee, you think to much!!
Jeffrey J Chalmers(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
“RULERS OF TOMORROW! MASTER RACE!”
— Ralph Bakshi, Wizards (not much of a film, but this is a quote from the main Bad Guy)
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
“Let the Sorcerers in Coven bind the Spirit through the proper Incantations…”
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Dee wrote in her OP:
🙂 Maybe “podcasts on legs” can become another TWWW term. 🙂
This morning I was trying to think of a term for the “pastors” of mega-churches who “preach”, usually ripping off someone else’s words….they don’t actually pastor people, either inside or outside of their church.
In the short time I was trying to come up with a more suitable name than pastor, all I could come up with was “sermonizer”.
Your phrase “podcasts on legs”, Dee, is VASTLY netter than “sermonizer”. 🙂
researcher(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Sorry for the typo….the word “netter” should be “better”. 🙂
researcher(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Pew-sitters are also know as giving units (aka “marks” in the pyramid scheme/con game).
Ras al Ghul(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Back in ye Olde middle Eastern times, wolves would eat sheep (and livelihoods – as in “we’re not eating tonight”) so that’s the bad rap. It’s a biblical human-centric thing. So many things we’ve learned since those times – that and I don’t have to worry about wolves in the meat section down at Co-op.
Jack(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
“Therefore, says the Lord, ‘I am against these prophets who steal messages from each other and claim they are from me.'” (Jeremiah 23:30)
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
The Bible says no such thing.
Trust is based on way more than blind obedience.
Muff Potter(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
On the other hand, the Bible warns “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but test the spirits to see if they are of God” (1 John 4:1). The Word also reminds us that not everyone who preaches is from God (Matthew 7). We would be wise to listen to what Scripture says, rather than the theobros. Trust is earned; don’t give it away blindly and immediately to just anyone who occupies the pulpit. Pray, ask the Holy Spirit to guide you, and look for red flags.
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
“DFW churches reflect the state of the church in general, be it California, the Triangle, the Triad, Florida, New England, etc.”
IMO, we are living in the church age referred to in Scripture as “The Great Apostasy” … a falling away from that which is right. There are reflections of that in both pulpit and pew. Church ain’t what it’s supposed to be; it’s getting tougher by the day for the Body of Christ to fit in it.
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
I’ve speculated this is due to gross incompetence on the part of the demon in charge of the DFW, whose job it was to keep all the wolves disguised under wooly costumes, out of cages, rolling in the dough, and chowing down on mutton.
Satin(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
This is Dallas/Fort Worth, ground zero for big-bucks MegaGigaChurches for the Rich and Famous.
The setting of Good Christian Bitches and its TV adaptation GCB.
Where MegaPastor Superapostle Jeffres (the Flatterer) sucks up to Power and MegaPastor Superapostle Grinning Ed Young proclaims his Christian SEX Challenges and Bed-Ins.
Where a lot of the private jets tracked at PastorPlanes are based.
So did the Didache, that 1st Century book circulated among the Church. Between a third and half of that book is warnings about con men and fake preachers and how to recognize them.
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Which is also an overdone Standard of the whole End Times Prophecy trip.
Don’t go Hal Lindsay on us, Max. One was enough, and both YouTube and Coast to Coast AM are crawling with End Times types these days.
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Like that Eighties novelty song “We’re the Moral Majority” that got a lot of Dr Demento airplay before Falwell Sr’s attorneys sued it out of existence. No online copy exists (I’ve tried for years to find one) and I only remember a few fragments.
Every verse except for the last ended with “We’re the — Moral Majority! The Bible Tells Us So!”
The last verse was a bullet list of Eighties Republican talking points, ending with a loud
“BECAUSE THE BI-BLE TELLS US SO!”
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
“I go chop you dolla!
I make you money Disappear,
Four-One-Nine just a Game,
You be the Mugu,
I be the Masta!”
— Nigerian pop song about a con man
“Chop you Dolla” = literally “Eat Your Money”
“Four-One-Nine” = a swindle or con
“Mugu” = fool, in the sense of an easy mark
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Yeah, I stay away from him … I go Scripture instead.
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
This might be the best article you have ever written! I am sitting here trying to process it because I can relate to so much, and Kati I get it. It took me over 2 years to be comfortable with the church I am at and up until today, reading it took Dee 2 1/2 years, I thought it was too long. So Kati, take your time. I pray God guides you to where healing can be for you. Max, that was beautiful what Adrian Rogers did for your mom. I was part of a church where the pastor proclaimed he would not do hospital visits for any of the 300 members. Yes, just 300. Can anyone from the Dallas area confirm: I cannot remember where I read this but was there, this past year, a prayer walk through the streets of Dallas? Asking for revival or something like that? I am not from the area but I have read 1 Peter 3:16 and 4:17. Thank you so much Dee!
JJallday(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Headless Unicorn Guy,
Is this it Dee?
Doubtful(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
https://youtu.be/6xpS-EPAEnA?si=M60Le9CyKEKOWSeI
Doubtful(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Thanks for pointing this out, Muff. Wolves are part of the ecosystem. We may not like it, but yes, they’re going to eat sheep if they get the opportunity, but that’s what shepherds are for. Oh, and that whole bit about alpha males in wolf packs is just wrong. In the wild, wolf packs are families. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-the-alpha-wolf-idea-a-myth/
I mean, though, I think even Jesus knew that. When will you ever see a wolf in sheep’s clothing? Never, because that’s just not what wolves *do*. However, humans will cloak themselves in whatever it takes to take advantage of other humans. Just My Personal Opinion, Your Mileage May Vary.
Muslin, fka Dee Holmes(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Pew peons used to be called tithing units. (To get more family members in the workforce?). Now they are giving units around here because if you “only give God the 10% of the gross you owe him you are not GIVING, just paying the bill. So on top of that how much do you GIVE?”
Sick.
linda(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
The studies about Alpha wolves (cue the 12-year-old Andrew Tate fanboy screaming at his teacher “I COMMAND YOU! I! AM! ALPHA! HERE!”) were with unrelated wolves (from several family packs) together in captivity – literally a Wolf Prison Gang.
When Yellowstone was re-seeded with wolves (many of who were unrelated), they settled down into giant (50-wolf) packs composed of several family groups. (“Natural” wolf packs such as in Europe are single family groups of 6-10.) Within a family pack things are pretty mellow, but the family packs are often competitive with each other within the over-pack – not so much Alpha & Beta wolves as Alpha & Beta packs within the multi-family overpack.
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Headless Unicorn Guy,
This is probably why dogs got domesticated – humans and wolves have very similar social structures and personalities within those social structures. The big Yellowstone packs are more like tribal groupings of several families banded together. This may be the beginnings of a “wolf civilization”.
There are videos of these large Yellowstone packs on the move; a couple trailbreakers in the lead, then the majority of the pack’s prime males, then the bitches and pups protected in the middle, a rear guard of males, then the Alpha of the over-pack (probably the Patriarch of the Alpha pack) checking for stragglers.
When hunting, they tend to split into independent family packs, but come together when the prey is a really big score, too big for a single family.
The usual pattern in a family pack is for the pups to leave and found their own family packs when they reach adulthood; in these Yellowstone-sized overpacks I wonder if they found their own families from other family packs within the overpack/tribe? At which point you ‘dhave a nomadic “village” of several families.
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Apart from cholera, polio tuberculosis, and all those other untreatable hideous diseases. One must miss the good old days where everyone knew the village idiot and village scoundrel.
Seriously though, if urban life is a reality, why affiliate, let alone financially support,anything and anyone, that minimises opportunities to assess governance and character.
Ian Docker(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
THAT’S THE ONE!
Couldn’t find it on searches; there were so many songs with that title (including a famous Punk one by The Dead Kennedys) I couldn’t find a signal amid all the noise.
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)