Why do you not practice what you preach. St. Jerome
I am enjoying my first grandson and should return home on Sunday. This post is merely a recap of the situation regarding Steve Lawson. Did you know he reportedly preached double predestination and was not kind to those who disagreed?
Here is a recap of the situation. Rick Pidcock at Baptist News Global posted Steve Lawson preached fire and brimstone except for himself.
Steve Lawson was fired from Trinity Bible Church of Dallas due to what the Trinity elders called “an inappropriate relationship that he has had with a woman.” Lawson is one of the most influential leaders in the complementarian Calvinist wing of conservative evangelicalism. He also lost his position as dean of doctor of ministry studies at The Master’s Seminary, which is led by John MacArthur. And his information is currently being wiped from other ministry websites such as The Gospel Coalition and Ligonier Ministries.
…Several days ago, the elders at Trinity Bible Church of Dallas were informed by Steve Lawson of an inappropriate relationship that he has had with a woman. The elders have met with Steve and will continue to come alongside him and pray for him with the ultimate goal of his personal repentance. Steve will no longer be compensated by Trinity Bible Church of Dallas.”
Julie Roys posted Pastor & The Master’s Seminary Dean Steve Lawson Fired from Church for ‘Inappropriate Relationship’ With a Woman.
Lawson is the founder and president of OnePassion Ministries “and has dedicated his life to help biblical expositors bring about a new reformation in the church,” the ministry’s website states.
Then, there is more information that Trinity Baptist Church and others seemed to want to ignore.
Julie Roys also posted, “Steve Lawson Had ‘5-Year Relationship’ with Woma in Her 20s, GCC Pastor Says.”
Steve Lawson, had a “5-year relationship” with a woman in her “late 20s,” Phil Johnson, an elder and pastor at John MacArthur’s Grace Community Church, stated in an X post today, which has since been deleted.
“He is 73. She is in her late 20s,” Johnson wrote.
Johnson also stated that the woman is not a member of Lawson’s church, Trinity Bible Church of Dallas, and “lives in a different state nowhere close to any of the ministries Steve served.”
Did he actually confess to sin? Did he repent?
In his X post, Johnson also stated that Lawson informed the elders at his church, Trinity Bible Church of Dallas, about his “inappropriate” relationship, “but only after the girl’s father had confronted Steve and threatened exposure.”
“This was not confession of sin,” Johnson added.
Go back to the first quote by Rick Pidcock of BNG. Sounds a bit dicey to me.
The elders have met with Steve and will continue to come alongside him and pray for him with the ultimate goal of his personal repentance.
It sounds like this magnificent example of the best Calvinism (Calviista style) has to offer, this BFF of John MacArthur, lionized by Al Mohler, might have missed a line or two on the Scriptures.
Let’s listen to Moher discussing this situation.
He has come up with a reason this happened. Old Steve, married for 40 years, traveled alone! But never forget this dude was, according to Al Mohler, “the most famous expositor of Scripture.”
What did this “most famous” expositor of Scripture preach? “Remember, this stuff is accepted by Mohler, who trains pastors.
Go back to the BNG article quoted at the beginning of this post.
Lawson belongs to a very scary group of double-predestination Calvinists whose theology destroys their humanity. While preaching at MacArthur’s conference for pastors, Lawson said: “Jesus isn’t coming to save. He’s coming to slaughter. He isn’t coming to deliver. He’s coming to destroy and damn.”
…listen to how detailed he gets in his description of what he thinks humanity will experience.
“Everyone in hell is screaming and crying out as they are in this lake of fire, in this furnace of fire as they are under torment as though they are stretched out on a rack to the breaking point, yet never breaking,” he imagines. “And this word ‘torment’ in the original Greek language refers to the rack or instrument of torture by which one is forced to give an answer. The stretching rack that they would put a body on and, ‘We’re going to get the answer out of you one way or another and we’re gonna tighten the screws and we’re gonna stretch you out until you tell us what we need to know.’”
…People are literally baptized in fire. They are immersed in fire. They are swimming in fire. They are engulfed in fire, yet never able to swim out of the lake of fire. They are forever preserved in this lake of fire. They are drowning in fire with the wrath of God inflicting pain from the top of their head to the bottom of their feet to every extremity in their body forever and ever and ever. … They will be roasted alive, yet they will never be able to die.
For men like Lawson, this is just a “mere hiccup.”
According to all reports, the “couple” says no fornication occurred in this five-year “inappropriate relationship.” Without the reporting of many, this would have been one more problem swept under the rug. I am beginning to think that some caught up in this world of the supposed finest expositors must either believe they are exempt from the disturbing things they preach or don’t believe what they preach. For them, it is merely a good gig and paid handsomely for this theobro. He may not think he did anything wrong. Rick Pidcock quotes from the final sermon Lawson preached.
In Lawson’s final sermon, which he preached on Sept, 15, he said: “And you should not judge a man by his one weak moment. You need to look at the whole body of his work. You need to look at his whole message. You need to look at his whole ministry. And don’t judge him on one hiccup that happens.”
No, Al Mohler. Many people must travel often for their jobs. Consider those in the military, for example, or those serving on the Mercy Ship. They don’t all have five-year inappropriate relationships. Lawson didn’t sin because he just traveled too much. He sinned because he thought he was exempt. Even worse, maybe he doesn’t believe what he preaches.
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Phil Johnson’s original tweet and the tweet where he explained why he removed it can be found here.
https://x.com/ThouArtTheMan/status/1839769678744564159
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In double predestination, God determines the elect and the reprobate. One’s actions have no influence on their membership in either group. In other words, a person who is elect could sin as much as they want without fear of eternal torment.
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Thank you Micah for clearing that up. I was trying to get a concise answer to what is double predestination. So really, why punish your kids? No more time outs for anyone! You were meant to do what you did, and I cannot change your future and help you walk a different path. And as to a hiccup, a five year relationship is in no way just a hiccup. (And congrats Dee on the grandson!)
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I go with the second one, specifically that he KNEW he was one of the Predestined Elect.
Thought the 500-year history of Calvinism, there has been litmus test after litmus test to PROVE to the Calvinist that HE is one of the Elect (and just as important, you’re NOT). Protected from Evanescent Grace and God-Sent False Assurance of Election by material blessings/getting filthy rich or Perfectly Parsing your Theology like a Supreme Party Ideologist of the USSR.
Never underestimate the Arrogance of God’s Special Predestined Pets.
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It all depends on how you define “fornication” or what’s REALLY sex – Remember Doug ESQUIRE of Vision Forum and Fallwell Jr’s instructions to Pool Boy? No Tab A in Slot B, so it isn’t really sex?
Semantics, My Dear Wormwood.
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Ego Much?
That’s right up there with “Head Apostle of the People of Destiny”.
And I’ve seen and heard more than enough brain-dead “Exposition of Scripture(TM)” to not trust it.
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Dee, how would you define double predestination?
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And that ought to scare the eternal hell out of those who sit under hyper-Calvinist leaders … they can “sin as much as they want”?!
Oh, but Scripture teaches otherwise: “What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?” (Romans 6)
The new reformers have been cherry-picking Paul to make him say what they want him to. They conveniently jump over passages like the above, while twisting other passages to support their theology. They depend on cheap grace, which is not Grace at all.
A “double” passage they need to be concerned about: “Woe to you, self-righteous scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel over sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a convert, you make him two-fold as much a son of hell as you are.” (Matthew 23:15)
Oh, but Max, so what if he was a bit of a bad-boy, Brother Lawson sure could preach and teach. Be not deceived, Jesus had a lot to say about such leaders in Matthew 7.
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The New Calvinists have proven time and again that arrogance is the overriding characteristic of their movement. They would never be convicted of walking in humility and love.
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I’d like to offer what I understand to be a more nuanced and correct version of the teaching of double predestination, which is that God determines both who is saved and who is damned.
BUT the Scriptures teach human responsibility just as much as they teach God’s sovereignty. It’s both. I can’t explain exactly how both of those things can be true at once. He’s God. He’s bigger than I am; He can do things I can’t fully explain.
Also: An “elect” person’s life has to reflect the fruits of the Spirit. Jesus says you’ll know them by their fruits. You don’t get to act like a heathen and then claim election just because you say so. That’s not even grace; that’s just gross. The elect understand that grace is hard-won by Christ and that we honor and seek to serve Him as a result. Anyone who treats Christ’s sacrifice cheaply in a habitual way is NOT elect even though he may say he is.
I don’t think you have to believe in double predestination in order to be a Christian. This is something we can disagree on and still love Jesus no matter which camp we are in. But I do get frustrated at times with the way people treat Calvinism as a caricature. Properly understood, I think it honors God’s sovereignty in a way that other theological systems cannot.
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Scripture speaks much about the sovereignty of God. Scripture speaks much about the free will of man. When it comes to salvation, both work together in a way that is beyond human comprehension. To attempt to put the mind of God into a neat systematic theological box is to stand in arrogance before the Creator.
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This is an egregious misrepresentation of Reformed theology. In no way, ever, is it preached that a redeemed/elect sinner can “sin as much as they want without fear of eternal torment.” It’s just a simply gross mischaracterization, or a purposeful slandering of the doctrine of election.
In the predestination camp (Calvinist, Reformed) God has preordained the people He will save (which the Bible clearly states, I chose you before the foundation of the world), but Jesus does not save people and leave them in their sin. There is an ongoing battle between the flesh and the spirit once a person repents and is regenerated, clearly taught in Romans 8, where Paul describes his own Christian life.
There is ample, clear, and direct teaching in Reformed preaching that teaches how sin should be dealt with, in an individuals life and in the corporate body (church discipline, possible excommunication, etc.)
It is not contradictory in any way to believe God predestined those that He will save, leaving the unelected to remain in their sin, and yet expect that the predestined will not remain in their sin but live a life of repentance and growing obedience to God.
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Somebody bring me up to speed.
What is double pre-destination?
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Muff Potter,
Never mind, I shoulda’ kept reading the comments.
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Not only arrogant, but also just plain stupid.
Like trying to drain an Olympic sized swimming pool, with a soda straw.
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Muff Potter,
I think there are a variety of ways of describing the view; here’s an attempt:
First, “single predestination”, as I understand it, is the view that God graciously chooses (elects), from eternity past, certain individuals to receive the mercies of regeneration, sanctification, glorification. Those who are not among the elect are not “chosen” for destruction, but that is their inevitable fate since they are not able to save themselves.
“Double predestination, as I understand it, is the view that in addition to actively “electing” some for salvation, God actively “elects” everyone else for damnation, decreeing in eternity past that they shall not be saved.
——-
“Single predestination” sounds less intimidating than “double”, but I don’t think there’s a meaningful difference between them. If I choose to not rescue someone whom I could rescue, and who is not able to rescue himself, I have chosen that that person shall perish.
I agree with the OP that DP tends to corrode one’s humanity, or at least one’s compassion for fellow-sufferers. There are even writers who affirm that, in eternity, the contemplation of the sufferings of the damned shall have the effect of increasing the happiness of the saved. It seems, to me, rather twisted (I say this as one who once, reluctantly, thought that DP was probably right).
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Hmmmmm….late 20s….when it began…or now?? Inquiring minds want to know.
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…Double Predestination…
+++++++++++
some theologians sure have a lot of time on their hands.
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Max,
Yup
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I’m currently listening through A.W. Pink’s “The Sovereignty of God” and one of the things he’s repeated a number of times (while still absolutely affirming God’s absolute sovereignty over who is “elect” and who isn’t) is that it is entirely impossible for us to know while we’re here on earth who is among the elect and who isn’t.
In all my years of listening to the top dogs of YRR Calvinism I think I heard that less than I have in 6h (and counting) of this one audiobook. Kinda makes me sad.
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I agree with Samuel Conner that functionally there’s no difference between single and double predestination re: who goes where. My perspective is that the focus for most is wrong. We read “know” in the Bible and equate it with certainty re: whether we’re saved or not. We can be assured that we are of the elect but we walk by faith which involves the future and the unseen and so by definition certainty is eliminated. We will not know (with certainty) that we will persevere (be saved and therefore elect) until we have persevered. This should keep us in a posture of brokenness and dependence on God.
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It’s a shame that people misrepresent reformed theology. Why not attack it based on their own confessions in context (like the Westminster) instead of trying to strawman it?
Further the idea of “double predestination” is simply an attempt to work out the meaning of the apostles words in Romans 9:22-24. If you want to call that “putting God in a box” I won’t stop you, but I hope you would apply the same logic to your own approach to the Scriptures.
By the way, Steve Lawson is not confessionally reformed. And we should be careful of how we judge him, lest the same judgment come upon us.
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According to the “foremost expositor” of scripture in the BNG article:
“And this word ‘torment’ in the original Greek language refers to the rack or instrument of torture by which one is forced to give an answer.“
Interesting that the rack wasn’t “invented” until the 15th century; therefore, it would be impossible for “the Greek language” in the New Testament to refer to the rack.
Anachronism, Thy name is Steve Lawson.
It’s been mentioned before, but it’s worth repeating: the “god” of the hyper-Calvinist, YRR Calvinistas, looks more like a deterministic monster than Jesus.
“Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.” (Matthew 7:20 NIV)
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Fergus McLane,
Pink wouldn’t have made a very good New Calvinist.
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Yeah, like the bunch who came up with “Eternal Subordination of the Son” doctrine … that one was wild! They really had to twist a lot of Scripture to come up with that. Instead of torturing the Bible, they should use some of their spare time to come out of their ivory towers and minister to the hurting masses in Jesus’ name (but they don’t talk much about Him these days).
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Genuine evangelism doesn’t exist within hyper-Calvinist circles. There is no Great Commission in their ranks, only a theo-mission to spread aberrant belief and practice.
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Fergus McLane,
Tried to post a first-time comment basically saying what u said but guess it didn’t clear the moderator. Very well said. I have Pink’s book but never read it, always thought he reads a bit too much symbolism into Scripture in his commentaries but had no idea he holds this view in the book.
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When the New Calvinist flood came into the American church, I listened to a LOT of “top dog” and local YRR preachers’ online live and recorded sermons to determine what made them tick. I kept a check-list with four columns: God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, YRR icon. At the end of that exercise, I had checked a lot of reference to “God”, with barely a mention of Jesus, and hardly a word about the Holy Spirit. YRR icons (e.g., Piper) received more air-time than Jesus! Of most concern was the absence of preaching the Cross of Christ and the words of Jesus. The new reformers preached largely from the epistles of Paul, with little reference to the words in red. I concluded that New Calvinism was another gospel, which was not ‘the’ Gospel at all. To this day, I remain amazed that so many otherwise intelligent folks have fallen for the NeoCal message and method.
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Calvinism is heresy. It is, “another gospel.” But that aside, let’s examine what we know about this situation. He was in this, “inappropriate relationship,” with, “strong romantic overtones,” (those are the words issued by his own church) with a woman in her 20’s for FIVE years. She lived in another state. What this means is that this relationship did not continue because they were working together or had contact every week at church. NO. He had to travel to visit her. In order to be with her in this inappropriate relationship for FIVE years he had to make choice after choice and tell lie after lie to visit her, cover it up, and continue with this for five years. He had to go home to his wife, preach and teach, and supposedly walk with Christ for FIVE years and never break it off. And this “inappropriate relationship” was obviously “inappropriate” enough for him to hide it — but more than that — it was inappropriate enough for the girl’s father to take action and report him to the elders. Otherwise, he would have continued in it with her. I suppose we should not assume more than we know, but how does a secret relationship like this continue if there were not fornication? What did they do — sit and talk? For FIVE years. Draw your own conclusions.
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The moderator, Dee, is in Boston caring for my newborn grandson because his mom, my daughter, was readmitted to the hospital for postpartum preeclampsia, an uncommon ailment in postpartum women, and her husband is staying with her. I am trying to keep up. New commenters are always put into moderation. TWW has a liberal policy regarding comments, but a newborn takes precedence.
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You ain’t just a whistlin’ Dixie it’s twisted.
It’s an effin’ sick religion.
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The idea that God purposely creates those who are doomed to hell is not “simply” working out anything. It is a description of a God who condemns those to hell who never had the opportunity of a choice. They were created for hell. This view of God is not a strawamn argument.
AS for the confessions, I am not a Calvinist but I hold to the Apostles and Nicene Creed. Those creeds are held by confessing Christian of all sorts, not just Calvinists. One can expose those creeds and find the idea of double presdetination abhorrent.
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I agree with you, as does Roger Olson. If one can save all those He creates and chooses to save only some arbitrarily, then there is no difference. It could be considered arbitrary since He does not select any based on the intrinsic goodness of the chosen ones.
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Steve Lawson – there but for the Grace of God go I. I am not a better man then he.
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dee,
Stuff like this explains why 90+% of Christendom have rejected the tenets of reformed theology for the last 500 years.
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Dee,
I just prayed for your new grandchild and your daughter that she will recover from her depression. May God bless your family.
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Dee, praying for your daughter. And you, as well, Geema, as you care for the new grandboy.
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dee,
IMO, the Calvinist mind does not grasp that Paul, in Romans 9, is talking about nations not individuals.
A trip back to Genesis, makes this clear:
“Two nations are in your womb, and two peoples will be separated from your body” (Genesis 25:23)
God was not talking about one baby born to be saved, another one born to be condemned. He was talking about two nations – one to be blessed, another to be cursed. The Messiah would come through the Jewish nation … a Messiah named Jesus who we must personally accept or reject rather than living a life wondering if we are “elect” or not. If you read Paul first (his epistles), you might read Jesus wrong … but if you read Jesus first (the Gospels), the writings of Paul come into perspective. Jesus came to seek and to save those who are lost. Praise His Holy Name!
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There are some difficulties and unanswered questions on either view, but it’s not unique to single or double predestination ideas. Unless one is a universalist, there are some people whom God has chosen not to rescue, some people whom he created knowing for sure that they would never be saved.
Historically, the majority Calvinist position has actually been closer to what you described as single predestination. Dee’s own Lutheran confessions also teach single predestination.
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Max,
Paul’s anticipated objection doesn’t make any sense if he’s just talking about nations. If God is talking about two nations and one can freely join either nation, then there’s no objection regarding God’s justice.
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Max,
That would be the dead give away. Tha arrogance and meanness in their condemnation and comments against those whon they disagree.
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wesley j Hull,
As one commenter said upstream “you’ll know them by their fruit”
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Well, I didn’t think I was going to be posting on double predestination today…I guess it’s providential.
Rick Pidcock made something of a drive-by comment saying Steve Lawson held to double predestination in the linked article. I was wondering if Dee understood it in the more narrow, technical sense or in a wider popular sense. I appreciate the respectful portions of the dialogue above.
Steve other old boss would accept a positive-negative asymmetrical view as accurate, but a positive-positive view as a “a gross and inexcusable caricature of the doctrine.” He goes on to say “Such a view may be identified with what is often loosely described as hyper-Calvinism and involves a radical form of supralapsarianism. Such a view of predestination has been virtually universally and monolithically rejected by Reformed thinkers.” See here:
https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/double-predestination-biblical
I came out of such an environment. It does indeed kill evangelism, and cripple believers. I would call it a Christianized form of fatalism. Even Phil Johnson called it out as bad theology. I know the position as only a native would know it. But that’s not what I see in Steve Lawson.
I found an article by Steve Lawson on the Wayback Machine titled, interestingly enough, “Double Predestination”. He ends with a gospel appeal, and motivations to action. One of the objections to double predestination is, of course, that it destroys free will. That’s not what I see here.
http://web.archive.org/web/20231208030010/https://onepassion.org/2019-10-31-double-predestination-romans-117-10/
To sum up, it may not be accurate to say that Steve Lawson holds to double predestination. Calvinism? Absolutely. But double predestination (as I understand it) and associated beliefs are a different animal.
So, you think I am defending Steve Lawson? By no means. Could it be that there is a third possibility? I am raising the possibility that Mr. Lawson believed and taught a perspective that holds people accountable for their actions, people misunderstood the perspective as excusing sin, and then he fell into disqualifying sin. I have seen it before.
Finishing with a Grumpy rant:
We discuss a huge swath of Evangelical Christianity’s bad behavior on this board. Why do we link this perspective to bad behavior but not the others? I personally know tons of Calvinists (and Lutherans, and Baptists, and Catholics, and EV Free, and Calvary Chapel, and Evangelical Megachurch people, etc, etc.) who do NOT behave this way, and, sadly, a small minority who do. Perhaps the valid criticisms of New Calvinism on this board are more cultural than they are theological? If you made the case Steve Lawson –> CBMW –> Bad Behavior, or Steve Lawson –> ESS –> Bad Behavior, that would make sense. But that is not what is being asserted here. It’s Steve Lawson –> Double Predestination –> Bad Behavior as far as I can tell.
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Dee, that’s way more important than the conversations on double predestination. They aren’t going to change anyone’s minds, but we will all continue to tilt at each others windmills regardless. We’ve been through the prepartum –> postpartum preeclampsia, so I know how scary it is. Vague memories of magnesium infusions and frustrated doctors. Praying for you and yours. You are my sister in Christ, and that’s vastly more important than this other stuff.
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All accounts say the woman is in her late 20s. Even 5 years ago that likely makes her over 21 (and definitely over 20) when it started so not a “girl”. If he has been in a pastoral or teaching relationship with her and also in a sexual relationship, then this could be illegal and rightly so in several states (including, I think, Texas, so has it been reported?). If it were fully consensual and sexual, then still a betrayal of trust by him of his wife and conduct unbecoming for his church and something for them to handle (but not illegal). If it were fully consensual but a non-sexual friendship, it still might be seen as inappropriate by his church (and her father).
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From the BNG article “The elders have met with Steve and will continue to come alongside him and pray for him with the ultimate goal of his personal repentance.”
So, has the man not confessed and repented yet?
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I am not here to defend Lawson for his actions. They are abhorrent.
That said, I think the author of the post ought not claim that he teaches double predestination (and that he is not kind to those that disagree with double predestination) w/out providing quotes.
Years ago (probably 2018 or 19), I went to a conference where Lawson was the key speaker and I believe I remember him saying that he would rather a person be Armenian than hold to double predestination. I am 90% he said it. There is a small chance that I am misremembering.
Regardless, I have never heard Lawson claim in double predestination so quotes would be good. Otherwise, no reason to get into that, especially considering the fact that the purpose of the post (his unfaithfulness) has nothing to do with the specific theological stances he took. It makes the author of the blog post look like he just has a personal vendetta against Lawson not related to the issue at hand.
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I’m glad the “ultimate goal” is repentance and not restoration to ministry! Sounds like these elders might have their heads screwed on right for a change.
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If all he is guilty of is the last option on my list, he might have nothing to repent of. If he is guilty of the first, have they reported it to the law?
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Given how he exalts Christ and preaches the gospel in his letters, it’s hard to see how anyone could “read Jesus wrong”.
Given how he describes what he did before and after conversion, it’s hard to see how anyone could think he preached a different gospel from Christ, including the bits about assurance and election that even Peter endorses.
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I am sorry to say that this article comes across as an opportunity to take a swipe at Calvinism. Why do you mention John Macarthur?
This is sadly lacking in grace.
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Many factors can contribute to the psyche and inhibitions of a septuagenarian, especially males. He simply may have lost his way within his family; it happens and it is not a sin. Forty years of marriage and 40 years of preaching can cause the head and the heart to find an open door. In this, Steve is still human, and a male with much to offer. There is no blame toward his wife or his ministries, simply earth-bound weariness of them both.
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Oh no … Paul got it right about Jesus!! He preached the Gospel, indeed! You missed what I was saying. It’s the New Calvinists who twist Paul’s words out of context who are the problem. I challenge you to walk into a NeoCal church in my area and hear a clear presentation of the message of the Cross of Christ. They simply don’t preach it like Paul.
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Reportedly both Lawson and the woman he had an inappropriate relationship with claims there was no sex, but do you know how that goes? They’ll claim it but my guess is they did.
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senecagriggs,
So, what grace did God give you that he withheld from Steve Lawson?
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Micah,
No. The elect cannot sin as much as they want. Steve Lawson did not believed this. That is a caricature. The elect (=born again believers) will live PROGRESSIVELY holy lives because of the Spirits work in them and this will occur over a lifetime which is why all believer’s need Christ’s intercession. We still sin. But believers who sin are preserved (1 Peter 1:5-6), disciplined by God unto repentance (hebrews 12:5–11), and forgiven as they confess their sin (1John 1:7-9).
If Steve Lawson is a true believer, he will repent and he will do so publicly. He will be disqualified permanently.
The reference to reprobate was taught by Jesus (John 6:37; 10:26-27; John 17:24), Paul (Romans 9:16-22; Peter (1 Peter 2:8-9) and the rest of the Bible. The reprobate are simply those that God calls through the proclamation of the gospel, who refuse to hear, and are left to their own choice. Believers are from the same mass but the Spirit regenerates them and gives them life and the desire and power to turn and believe. Titus 3:3-7, John 3:3-7; Eph. 2:1-4 (esp. v. 4).
Like King David, Steve Lawson will repent if he’s had this salvation experience.
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Not justifying Mr. Lawson in the least, but I will be the first to say that I know every one of us can take a way that seems right, but the end thereof are the ways of death. Proverbs 14:12
We fight daily against the great deceiver who knows us better then we know ourselves, so if anyone of us do not consider our own vulnerabilities while we condemn the failures of another man, we too shall be given over to a fall, I’m sure.
Praise be to God for bringing to light a hidden sin, for the Lord is no respecter of persons; and his great desire is to be glorified, and for us to be sanctified.
That being said, our confidence should be in Christ alone as the only perfect man, for the rest us of our righteousnesses are as filthy rags, and we do all fade as a leaf. We have all sinned and come short of the glory of God.
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I recommend you go to the Grace Life Bible Church You Tube site and find the playlist for The Gospels Project and listen to the sermons on the different gospels in the Bible. I also recommend you closely read Galatians chapter 1, Ephesians chapter 3, and Colossians chapter 1 using the King James Bible.
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Micah,
Absolutely untrue! Who teaches such misrepresentations of the Calvinistic position? Quotes and references please.
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Kind of a bummer. The more of the older guys I listen to the more I appreciate the depth of their content. I may not agree with it all, but at least they seemed to do their best to be coherent.
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Sarah, it’s not a swipe at Calvinism. It completely destroys it as a coherent theology. I understand that you won’t see it that way. Fair enough. But fair minded thinkers, who’re not deeply invested in the Calvinist camp will appreciate the inconcgruity of God (by Calvinism’s tenets) ordaining this horrid state of affairs,”for His glory and Mr Lawson’s good.” Calvinist champion John McArthur is mentioned because he’s one of Lawson’s biggest promoters, as evidenced by the fact that Lawson was scheduled to speak this past weekend at GCC’s Shepherds Conference (as he has several times before). Not to mention the fact that Lawson is a dean at the Masters Seminary, founded by McArthur. GCC and TMS have scrubbed any mention of Lawson from their respective sites, rather than treat their followers like reasonable, mature people, deserving of respect and an explanation of why Lawson is being “disappeared” as well as an explanation or statement from Mr McArthur himself. This is not the way to treat people you respect. It’s the way Calvinists treat their “sheep”. By infantalizing them.
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Jonathan,
” We can be assured that we are of the elect but we walk by faith which involves the future and the unseen and so by definition certainty is eliminated. We will not know (with certainty) that we will persevere (be saved and therefore elect) until we have persevered. This should keep us in a posture of brokenness and dependence on God.”
++++++++++++++++++
what is the point of such confusion and contradictions?
life is too short for this kind exercise in pondering.
i waste no time pondering conundrums for their own sake.
instead, i go straight to making God is my business partner in life, in excelling in what each day holds and in what he made me to be.
the interaction is practical and fun.
“I believe God made me for a purpose. He also made me fast, and when I run, I feel his pleasure.”–attributed to Eric Liddel in Chariots of Fire.
whatever brokenness and ‘not knowing (with certainty) that we will persevere (be saved and therefore elect) until we have persevered means,
it surely gets in the way of the straightforward pursuit of excelling in what God made us uniquely to be.
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Merrit Olson,
“We fight daily against the great deceiver who knows us better then we know ourselves, so if anyone of us do not consider our own vulnerabilities while we condemn the failures of another man, we too shall be given over to a fall, I’m sure.”
+++++++++++++++
we do?? how hard is it to simply do what’s right?
i’ll tell you what’s hard – orchestrating betraying the people in your life for years and keeping it all secret.
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Robert,
I’m sure Dee appreciates your prayers, but preeclampsia is not depression. Preeclampsia is a very serious condition marked by elevated blood pressure and other symptoms. Sending well wishes to Dee’s daughter and grandbaby.
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Anne Rector,
goodness, my septuagenarian agnostic and atheist friends and family who have been married for several decades wouldn’t dream of betraying their husband/wife.
it’s beneath them.
their integrity wouldn’t permit them to go against their commitments.
but mostly because they love their husband/wife.
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Haven’t thought about Pink for a long time, and this is the second time this week for me that Pink has come up…interesting. Regarding Pink’s book, there is a weird background to that. It depends which version you have. Pink wrote, of course, the 1918, 1921, & 1929 editions. ““The Sovereignty of God was republished in 1961 by The Banner of Truth” with “minor revisions and abridgements.” These minor revisions and abridgements removed entire chapters, about a third of the book. From what I understand, it completely changed Pink’s perspective on reprobation through deletions and edits. This was supposedly based on Pink’s more mature thoughts, but I am not the only one who finds the argument unconvincing. If you want to see Pink’s thoughts, see the Baker editions. If you want to see an edit of them, see the Banner of Truth editions.
I am leaning heavily on this post which is consistent with what I know from various sources, including owning the BoT version of the book.
https://www.puritanboard.com/threads/pinks-sovereignty-of-god-development.38897/
Oh, and agree that early Pink relies too much on symbolism. What is it with you guys that rely too much on symbolism that attracts you to hyper-Calvinism? I am looking at you, John Gill, A.W. Pink, and, dare I say it, Harold Camping?
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Anne Rector,
Really! What a bunch of nonsense, especially the special dispensation for him being male. Good grief.
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On X formerly Twitter a person with the username @AmericanAnglican posted this:
My pastor Steve Lawson, at our church in the early 90s (Bible Church of Little Rock), made a young lady come to the pulpit and confess that she had had pre-marital sex to the whole congregation.
It was super serious and it was like she had the scarlet letter.
“She had to… ..undergo church discipline.
Contrast that to now. Dr. Lawson doesn’t have to stand up, ashamed, in front of anyone at his church. He doesn’t have to endure church discipline.
He’ll likely go to rehab, confess to a faceless online audience, and finally “move on.”’
I doubt Lawson will do what he required of this woman.
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I wouldn’t really say that’s accurate. God chooses some to save and passes over the rest. The ones that are saved, are saved, the ones that are not saved prepare themselves for destruction through their actions. The saved are justified by faith. If you say salvation is dependent upon one’s actions, how much sin is too much? It nullifies grace. You might say, shall we sin that grace abounds? By no means, how can we who died to sin continue in it any longer?
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And will, no doubt, get a standing ovation somewhere along the line
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I’ve known several ex-Calvinists who had to distance themselves from a constant barrage of reformed indoctrination and church group-think before they could get a handle on Gospel truth. Over 90+ of Christendom have not accepted the tenets of reformed theology for the last 500 years … were/are they the non-elect, the eternally damned? Are there no other genuine expressions of Christian faith outside the “Calvinist camp”? Does the essence of Christianity rest only in a unrevisable set of doctrines about grace rather than a direct experience of Grace, an encounter with the living Christ? A hyper-Calvinist would answer those questions differently than most believers across the world.
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“Old” Calvinists are not “New” Calvinists. As a Southern Baptist for over 70 years (I’m done with them now since NeoCal took over), I sat alongside several classical Calvinists; I counted many as friends. While I didn’t agree with their theology, I found them to be civil in their discourse and respectful of other expressions of Christian faith. The new reformers are an entirely different beast! They truly believe they have come into the world for such a time as this to restore the one true gospel to the church (Calvinism = Gospel to them). To accomplish that mission, they have proven to be arrogant, deceptive, and mean-spirited … which, of course, are not fruit of the Holy Spirit. They have a passion for what they are doing, but it is a misplaced passion.
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Or it was “not really Sex so not really Sin” like Driscoll Sex (either end), Douggie ESQUIRE of Vision Forum on his Commander’s Handmaid, or Falwell Jr’s orders to Pool Boy.
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Young Calvinist League.
Kalvinjugend.
Chairman Calvin’s Red Guard.
True Believers Changing The Face of The World.
60-100 years ago they would have been on-fire for Communism instead of Calvinism.
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And the ‘god’ (small ‘g’ intentional) they’ve created is a monster.
What other conclusion can rational and sane people come up with?
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I first heard of A.W.Pink in Internet Monk, many years ago.
Apparently he had reached the theoretical final end state of Protestantism, the One True Church of One. Worshipping alone, with his Prefect-Parsed Theology making him the Only True Christian among all the Apostates and Heretics.
First, the name “Banner of Truth” sounds as full of itself as “Head Apostle of the People of Destiny”. A combination of Absolute Ego and Utter Righteosness Like that Christian Nationalist site that scared the crap out of my writing partner some years ago – “GOD HATH SAID”.
And the BoT-edited version has this aroma of a MiniTrue “correction” from 1984 or its direct inspiration, Comrade Yezhov the Vanishing NKVD Commissar.
1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Yezhov#/media/File:Nikolai_Yezhov_with_Stalin_and_Molotov_along_the_Volga%E2%80%93Don_Canal,_orignal.jpg
2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Yezhov#/media/File:Stalin_and_Molotov_along_the_Volga%E2%80%93Don_Canal,_Nikolai_Yezhov_removed.jpg
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I checked out the live feed from Trinity Bible this morning – the elder who had to fill in mentioned it’d been a hard week (for some reason) and he had lots of questions but had to be really patient. Toward the end he said Satan’s biggest attacks are against those who are the biggest threat to him, and that Dr MacArthur had said from his hospital bed that what happened would strengthen Trinity Bible Church. As for Dr Lawson— crickets….
In the comments someone asked for some live news about Steve’s situation and was chided by another commenter “today is about Christ not Dr Lawson. Pray for TBC and Let God deal with Dr Lawson to discipline him and restore him.”
Later someone asked “is Dr Lawson in the auditorium?” I suppose the appropriate answer would ave been ROFL! As of now, Comrade, e never existed!
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Things we learned moving around for the job and thus in many different theological camp churches:
1. Lutherans hold to single predestination. Many in the Reformed camp do so. Even the few who hold to double predestination do not believe the elect can sin as much as they want. The fact they don’t want to do that can be evidence that they are elect.
2. Total depravity does not mean what most people think it does. It isn’t depraved as we think of it today, but more the idea of being affected by the fall, or diminished by the fall, or tarnished or damaged by the fall. It is total not in degree of how bad we are, but as to which parts of us were affected by the fall. The totality of mankind is less than it would have been without the fall. We are not as strong, are prone to disease and doomed to die. Those are physical affects. Our intellect, our emotional life, our mental health, our talents and abilities, all are diminished. So we are totally depraved. John Wesley held to total depravity even while believing in a positive view of human beings. Many popes held the same view.
3. Predestination is taught in more ways than single predestination and double predestination. Many Arminians and Wesleyan-Arminians teach that God in His omniscience knew before the creation of the world who, given every chance, opportunity, perfect environment, etc would with their own free will He gave them choose faith in Christ, and who would reject Christ. With that knowledge he foreordained that those He foreknew would choose Christ would get those situations, opportunities, environment etc necessary for their salvation, and also went on to predestine them to be conformed to the image of His son.
4. Many believe when God speaks of choosing before the foundation of the world, what He chose was to save all those who are “in Christ.” They do NOT believe it means He chose who would be “in Christ.” He left that up to us.
Dee, praying for your daughter and family, and enjoy that grandbaby!
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Certainly the conclusion I came to loooong ago.
This is not to imply that I think I am reasonable or sane though. 😉
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Afterburne,
Or rational.
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Afterburne,
🙂
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I’ve seen horrible assumptions by “Christian” influencers about Lawson’s inappropriate relationship partner. One shows the silhouette of a lady near a streetlight. One is mad that all the hot Christian chicks of prime childbearing age pursue the top percent of Christian dudebros or even pursue (horrors) non-Christians! One guy says women in their twenties like to add up “body counts”.
Far more likely is there’s a victim of adult clergy sex abuse. Given the alleged perp’s age, more victims may have been covered up in the past. And given that the only one to spread gossip about this one is Mr Johnson from Grace to You, odds are Lawson met his victim through that church or university or their conferences. And if she were raised in MacArthurism, oh the things she must have been taught about submission and great men o’Gawd who might have weak moments or hiccups!
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As my mother’s pastor, Adrian Rogers, said “Predestined for Hell? Absolutely not!”
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Max,
I cannot speak for Steve Lawson but I can say our expository pastors DO NOT BELIEVE THEY CAN SIN SIN SIN! Your hatred of God is coming out in seething fangs by saying ANYONE is free to sin and sin by way of mere proximity to a pulpit is grossly irresponsible as a Christian.
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Dr.Rogers’ sermon under that title can be viewed at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nBFuPzDLIg
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True
When a leader like this is caught, they will try and downplay what they did even though they wouldn’t all this had it been a member of the church they pastored confronted on the same issue.
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Any Creative who survived a “Christian Fellowship” knows this.
And that some of the damage is permanent.
In the words of the Prophet Steve Taylor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9lyT8UUw_I
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As the accuser of the brethren, I’d like to officially accuse Mr. Johnson of gossip. A parishioner was rightly miffed with his elders for not telling them what was up. Mr. Johnson could’ve told him I don’t know go ask your elders. Instead, he gossiped to the whole plamn danet juicy details that he was privy to. How did he know these things? Did he talk to both parties personally? Did both parties actually use the term “literal fornication”? If so, did he ask their permission to share their insistence with the whole plamn danet?
Beyond the gossip, Johnson’s advice in both tweet series is abominable and even laughable.
I’d love to read an OP focused on Johnson’s tweets. You could even go back a few years to when he promised to tweet no more forever, but came back a few days later, because he had to defend himself.
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Eva,
…Eva,
folks are trying to understand theological conclusions that are very nonintuitive, confusing, hard to see as not contradictory, and with abominable implications.
why presume the worst of human beings in accusing them of hating God? it’s just no fun for anyone, including you.
if fun isn’t allowed, then substitute the words pleasant or life-giving.
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h,
“Any Creative who survived a “Christian Fellowship” knows this.
And that some of the damage is permanent.”
++++++++++++++
i’d say structure your life with creative pursuits with creative people wholly outside church.
i’m pursuing the degree in the creative field i should have gotten way back when (in addition to working). creative inspiration flowing like a fountain.
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Anne rector, thank you for mentioning the lack of grace in some responses. I am of no denomination By God’s grace,I strive to be a follower of Jesus Christ My Lord.
Please let’s remember:
James 2:13
“For judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.”
Yes it is not right what Lawson did,but considering the unfathomable patience, mercy & grace God gives me, I cannot withold mercy from anyone.
Phillipians 3:14-16
“I press on toward the goal to win the prize of God’s heavenly calling in Christ Jesus.*
All of us who are mature should embrace this point of view. And if you think differently about some issue, God will reveal this to you as well. Nevertheless, we must live up to what we have already attained.”*
(I have been tossed by many winds of doctrine in search of the knowledge of God, The Lord has been so gracious& patient with me and kindly corrected me so gently by His Word,it breaks me just thinking of it.
So I now pray for all who might be ensnared by deception& error of doctrine in the gospel of Jesus Christ. I continually pray for deliverance from all falsehood& deception,Esp those hidden within my own heart.)
I pray for us all who profess the faith and all who are seeking God. May The Lord Jesus Christ lead and direct our hearts in sincere repentance.
May He draw our hearts back to His Word, May He Himself teach us, help us rightly divide His Word and help us to hear& heed only Him.
My prayer for us all & all who profess faith in Jesus Christ is:
Ephesians 1:17-20
I pray:
that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in your knowledge of Him.
-I ask that the eyes of your heartb may be enlightened,
-so that you may know the hope of His calling,
– the riches of His glorious inheritance in the saints,
-and the surpassing greatness of His power to us who believe.
These are in accordance with the working of His mighty strength, which He exerted in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in the present age but also in the one to come.
1 cor 8:2-3
“The one who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know.
But the one who loves God is known by God.”
(This verse humbles me tremendously)
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Max,
I’m not old enough to have spent that much time around Baptists, but I’m an ex-Baptist currently attending an Assemblies of God church as a Calvinist. Definitely a culture shock going from the “Sunday morning social club” atmosphere of Baptists to the Pentecostals! Lots of good conversations with fellow believers and a church full of folks who love God and care for the community which is something that has been so refreshing.
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Nancy,
Thank you Nancy! Sorry Dee!
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Dee, preeclampsia and taking care of newborn babes always take precedence over theological arguments – or they might be the best arguments. My DIL had preeclampsia with my first grandbaby; I supported them and did little else, other than pray without ceasing.
My prayers are with you all.
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If a person is elect, they are not in danger of eternal torment because God in his sovereignty has decided it is so. Now, an elect person who has sinned will typically be convicted and repent with amendment of life, but that process has no bearing on their eternal destiny.
In Lawson’s case, the “hiccup” wouldn’t cause him to be at risk of eternal torment because he believes himself to be elect.
The primary difference between single and double predestination is the active choice of God. Single predestination is election of those for eternal joy while double adds an active election of those for eternal torment.
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The people of Trinity Bible Church Dallas appear to have settled on a strategy of zero information, forever. This is an attempt to avoid the myriad of suits and future turmoil, since Lawson was involved in at least 3 Big Eva subsidiaries. Their strategy will not work, it will merely multiply the eventual pain and suffering. Of course, that ain’t their concern. They’re truly Admirals in rowboats.
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I haven’t posted here in ages, but when I heard about this matter today I thought: I wonder what Dee at the Wartburg Watch has to say about this. It appears that some in the Calvinist/Reformed world are shaken to the core.
Whatever the case, it seems that the silencing of members at Steve Lawson’s church has commenced, as well as the attempted silencing of Christians at large. The average member in the pew must often face more strict church discipline than the celebrity pastor. At least that’s been my observation over the years.
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This post makes me sad. We all are suseptible to sin especially those that Satan feels threatened by. He sinned, he confessed and repented. Instead of forgiveness this post immediately attacks. This is a sinful action and also should be repented. We should come along side fallen brothers and sisters in prayer, not accepting sin but acknowling that he has done what was right he stepped down from his positions and is seeking help for his behaivor. I hope you don’t find yourself in a similar position and have other believers attack rather than pray fornypur healing. Sad shameful post.
Those shaming the church for not engaging in gossip and sharing information…why should we be privilege to this?
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Rank Hath Its Privileges, and rank bestowed by Divine Right has the most privileges of all.
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They’ve most likely pulled out the don’t gossip card, along with touch not mine anointed, the internet is from the devil, etc. Robert Morris attempted to shame his followers into not reading blogs, calling them “Satan’s Hit List” and ranting “I’m on Satan’s hit list” nonsense … we now see why he didn’t want them reading outside sources. These characters have way too much control over the pew.
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Darlene,
Welcome back, Darlene.
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IMO, “Bapticostals” are some of the most solid folks out there … it’s a good marriage of the Word (Baptists) and the Spirit (Pentecostals). During my tenure with Southern Baptists, I found that they had a bit of fear around AOG folks – whatever the Pentecostals had, they didn’t want it gettin’ on them! 🙂
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Eva, read my comment again. I was responding to a comment made by another regarding a flippant attitude about sin by some who consider themselves elect. I even went on to refer to a Scripture indicating that believers should not feel free to sin:
“What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?” (Romans 6)
I love God, Eva.
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R,
You are very correct as to your understanding of double election.
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I grew up under him. And Sproul. And MacArthur.
Funny thing… only Sproul was the one who managed to be classy. Something about Lawson and MacArthur was they loved to get into fights and I couldn’t rationalize it.
This whole obsession with Predestination is so asinine today to me but for the remaining cultists obsessed with their status it’s life or death. The Double Crowd is even worse.
EOTD it’s an argument on a topic that nobody, not even the Westminster or London Confessioners could answer easily but left it squarely in the field of Divine Mystery. We should take note.
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Where are you getting Lawson repented? The initial,Trinity announcement seem to indicate Lawson hadn’t repented yet. Where have you seen that has changed?
Also, if Lawson is truly going to repent he needs to do IMO a public confession. I seriously doubt he will do this.
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The latest from Trinity is a leader there is blaming the lack of updates on God:
https://x.com/protestia/status/1840472148902879291?s=61&t=FHBLKfUIey7QlEwhUAGEKw
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As the old saying goes, “If you lust after bacon and eggs you’ve already committed breakfast in your heart …”
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You are entirely correct. What most people seem to be ignoring is that Phil Johnson is a SNAKE.
We all know Johnson is John MacArthur’s henchman. He is what Haldeman and Erlichman were to Nixon. Phil Johnson DELIBERATELY posted the information about Lawson’s scandal—posted it for all the world to see. Lawson is an existenial threat to Johnson’s position in Mac’s circles and Phil was running (posting) interference for TMS and MacArthur.
He knew exactly what he was doing and left the post up for universal effect. THEN, he plays innocent and with a “benevolent” sweep, excuses his betrayal of this issue and Lawson’s friendship, and removes it. AFTER the DAMAGE has been done.
Phil Johnson isn’t even a copperhead snake, he’s a rattler, with double fangs. And he is NO brother in Christ.
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Another issue that bothers me about these so-called “leaders” is the assumption that they are, in fact, leaders of “the church”. They are not. They are self appointed pseudo-christian celebrities. Real leaders don’t do what Lawson has done. His buddies are not leaders of “the church”.
Jesus gave us instruction on how to recognize our leaders. These men do not qualify according to God’s Word.
I feel sorry for his wife and family, but not for all who put him on a pedestal.
And, his theology most certainly played a role in his scandal. Without it, he is a nobody who simply cheated on his wife and the world wouldn’t know about it. The collective “we” never seem to learn our lesson as “we” keep elevating these guys.
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The American church is paying the price for making room in their pulpits for a touch of charisma, a gift of gab, and a bag of gimmicks. Anyone (anyone!) can be a successful “pastor” in America with those attributes, plus a working knowledge of the Bible. Eventually, you will be able to discern the genuine from the counterfeit by the fruit they bear.
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Oh, I just remembered. Maybe Lawson took Piper’s ” Christian Hedonism” thing a little too literally…
Birds of a feather and all that.
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I don’t really listen to, or follow, Steve Lawson. I do know who he is, and I have heard his sermons online. He wasn’t someone who I would consider “a favorite” but I felt his teaching was sound.
Note: I am not excusing his actions, but am maybe looking from a different lens.
We are not sinners because we sin, but sin because we are sinners.
I look at the Bible, and I see mighty men of God fail. Utterly fail. Time and again. For today’s Christian to think they are are in a position to judge is something that I do not wish to approach due to fear.
Yes, Steve Lawson sinned. Does that damn him? Yes. It also damns you as it certainly damns me.
I am a sinner, saved by Grace. Without God, I am damned. Damned for my thoughts, damned for my actions. Remember that we all judge others by their actions, but judge ourselves by our intentions. We all have our secrets…our sins…our evil thoughts and deeds.
Remember:
David was an adulterer and murderer.
Abraham disobeyed the Lord. Adulterer. Liar.
Saul was crowned king and lost the kingdom.
Peter denied Christ.
John Mark deserted the work (Paul and Barnabas).
Moses decided he knew better than the Lord.
Adam listened to Eve and damned mankind.
Noah got drunk and committed incest.
Isaac had a concubine.
Rueben had an adulterous relationship with his father’s concubine.
Jacob was a sly, devious cheater. Had a couple concubines and two wives.
Samson let his Pride stop him from saving Israel.
God’s Grace is not intimidated by such blatant sin. God revealed sin, and then redeemed.
Pray for Steve Lawson. Pray for the Lord’s church.
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Piper also claims to be a 7-point Calvinist … I mean, after awhile, what’s the point?!
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Tumbleweed,
Exactly…
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Steve240,
Exactly w/r to public repentance….. these clowns love the publicity when they make their grand preaching ….. they expect us ( pew peons) to listen with awe…
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With Eva, Nicole, and possibly Rachel, we seem to have attracted a Truth Squad of Lawson’s sock puppets.
Just like what happens any MamaGAWD/Touch Not Mine Anointed comes under blog scrutiny.
“Throw a rock into a pack of junkyard dogs and the one that YELP!s is the one who got hit.”
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Been attempting that since January 1976, when discovering Dungeons & Dragons (brown box) pulled me out of that end-of-the-world not-a-cult.
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R,
What is your understanding or what is your definition of God’s sovereignty? Perhaps, there is a misunderstanding of the definition of sovereignty if we can’t reconcile them.
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If you do not agree with and affirm every jot and tittle they come up with, you (generic you) are a God hater.
They (fanatics) will not tolerate any kind of diversity.
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Max,
Cool. Now quote chapter 9 of Romans. The main problem, as always, is that people don’t, can’t or won’t understand what the Bible clearly says in terms of the basic doctrine of God’s sovereignty. And then they construct very elaborate straw men and occupy themselves in attacking them. All the majority of people on here are demonstrating is that they simply do not understand what is, often unfortunately, termed “Calvinism”.
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Wow this debate on Calvinism has really struck a raw nerve. I feel qualified to comment as i was raised Calvinist and a graduate of calvin university…Max hit the nail on the head!! I was the first in my family to leave this aberrant teaching and attended Bible churches when i got SAVED. My parents told me i was BORN SAVED…a member of the Covenant. Hooey. The Calvinistic churches wax eloquent about GOD but RARELY mention Christ!!!! They rarely speak of being converted. They believe they were BORN SAVED and culturally are hard to differentiate from the neighbors. In my neighborhood they will trll others that they are going to hell….for mowing the lawn on sunday. Tragic.
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abigail,
Praise God, Abigail, that you are now free in Christ. Jesus is the Gospel.
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I wish I had a quarter for every time I’ve heard that … that non-Calvinists are not smart enough to “understand” Calvinism, not theologically astute to comprehend the doctrines of grace. It’s a debate point that’s been tossed around for 500 years. Problem is, my personal experience with Christ is not open to the argument of others … what I see, I can’t un-see; what I know, I can’t un-know – it’s in my knower. “And let him that is athirst come; and whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely”
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Read the next chapter
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Shanon,
Well, thank goodness I don’t give a flying fig about Calvin. He is not the arbitrator of anyone’s salvation or relationship with God. I have great empathy for those who have been harmed by his thousands of words; more than are even in scriture.
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Interesting how you keep referring to the dissemination and even people coming up with various scenarios about Steve Lawson as “gossip.” Assuming you aren’t being facetious, you have apparently bought the broad definition of what is “gossip” and “slander” that “Christian” leaders have taught for a long period of time to control the narrative. Their definition has worked for so long.
One legitimate response to claiming gossip is “talking about someone’s problem when you are neither part of the problem or solution” is that if this a leader and especially a well known “Christian” Leader then really all of the body of Christ is part of the problem and solution.
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I always find it interesting how Calvinists are so quick to teach on the Sovereignty of God etc. then when something egregious happens they want to blame it on Satan.
C.J. Mahaney used the same tactic when trying to explain his fall as a leader despite claiming to believe in Calvinism.
Change your beliefs based on circumstances I guess.
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Exactly. That’s why Paul warned the church about not too many of them becoming teachers, that they would be held to a higher standard (James 3:1). Informing and warning the Body of Christ about the bad behavior of its leaders is not gossip. If the truth is delivered in love, it’s the right thing to do.
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I believe what you are saying is that Calvinists are so entrenched in their beliefs that they can’t see how someone could read the scriptures and not believe in Calvinism. They aren’t receptive that there are other beliefs that are viable. This is been my experience.
If you don’t believe in Calvinism, then you are a heretic or so they claim.
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Jesus is the Gospel; Calvinism is not.
We need to be careful in the Body of Christ not to elevate a man and his theology above Jesus. There are other expressions of faith which have done this, too, besides the Calvinists … there are just too many “ism”s out there and not enough Jesus.
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Al Mohler expressed it this way as he helped launch the New Calvinist movement:
“What options are there? If you’re a theologically minded, deeply convictional young evangelical, if you’re committed to the gospel and you want to see the nations rejoice in the name of Christ, if you want to see gospel-built and structured and committed churches, your theology is just gonna end up basically being Reformed, basically being something like this New Calvinism or you’re gonna have to invent some other label for what’s just gonna be the same thing. There just are not options out there. And that’s something that I think frustrates some people. But when I am asked about the New Calvinism, I will say just basically, where else are they gonna go? Who else is gonna answer the questions? Where else will they find the resources they need? And where else are they gonna connect? This is a generation that understands, they want to say the same thing Paul said. They want to stand with the Apostles. They want to stand with old, dead people. And they know they are going to have to if they are going to preach and teach the truth.”
No other options? Calvinism is the only truth? Such arrogance!
To the reformed mind, non-Calvinist expressions of faith are not viable (90+% of Christians worldwide do not accept the tenets of reformed theology). My primary concern about Calvinism, particularly hyper-Calvinism, is that it minimizes individual Christian experience. They prefer to think that the essence of Christianity can be found in a set of rigid doctrines ‘about’ grace, rather than a direct experience ‘of’ Grace, an encounter with the living Christ. I actually feel sorry for folks who have been ensnared through such indoctrination. I praise God for folks like Abigail who commented in this thread, who had the courage to question aberrant belief and practice and find her way to freedom in Christ. Whosoever will may come.
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Max,
Some people are more invested in defending Calvinism than they are in exhaulting Christ, or loving their neighbor, or helping the helpless.
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Shanon,
Shannon, Steve Lawson said it much faster than you. You should study up on it. When asked why so many “struggle” and will not accept the (so-called) “doctrines of grace”, Lawson replied, “they don’t know the Bible.” I’m willing for you to continue headlong in the beliefs you’re invested in. But experience has shown me that for every 1 calvinist, there are 99 non calvinists who are simply trying to understand “is God good?” “Does He truly love me?” The answer to both is an unequivocal YES!
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Believer,
the way i see it, life’s too short to fuss over these heavy dense interpretive details.
do your best, do what’s right (it’s not that hard), and treat people the way you want to be treated.
someone fault me. i dare you.
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elastigirl,
I see it the same way.
I tried years ago to read all that denser-than-uranium theology jive.
It just didn’t work. I found out just like Dorothy Gale that the real McCoy was right under my own nose, right in my own backyard (so to speak).
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Muff Potter,
it’s sort of like living with breezy fresh air, lots of open windows, light-colored minimalist surroundings.
versus living with baroque everything everywhere.
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Abigail is not exaggerating about confronting neighbors for mowing the lawn on Sunday. It’s quite the subculture.
If your only comfort in life and death is that you have the correct baptism and bloodlines, that’s a problem. If that is the basis of your assurance, you don’t need more theology. You need a faithful Savior named Jesus Christ.
There is a world of difference between Churchianity and Christianity.
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Max,
Great comment and so very true.
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I see no reason to locate my Christianity in the 16th century, in a California mega-church, or with a guru who got caught cheating on his wife.
Last time I checked, there was a cross a short walk outside of Jerusalem in the first century that I should be paying attention to.
Years ago I used to be a MacArthur groupie. Listened to and read everything JM. Then the Lord opened my eyes as I witnessed my wife and her friends as fully functioning believers in Christ who never gave one single second of thought or wasted any brain cells on Reformed Theology, JM, Lawson, et al, and didn’t even know who John Calvin was.
Thankfully He freed me from all that. And I’d rather follow my wife’s lead in that regard than any pseudo-christian guru any day.
Lawson has proven that he was never worth listening to in the first place. A so-called self appointed Man of God is one person who should be judged by his one worst act, he doesn’t get a pass because of his celebrity.
It ought to be a lesson to new believers and young Christians to unplug from the Christian Celebrity Subculture. How many scandals do we need to see to get it?
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Thanks for your input.
With regard to Calvinists typically have little acceptance that there are valid views I believe boils down to what they teach. They teach that it is all God that determines if one becomes saved or if a person is not given this “irresistible grace” then the person has no chance of being saved.
If they allow any wiggle room such as a different theology then that would get away from their belief that a person’s salvation is all up to God. Thus they want to imply that those who don’t accept Calvinism are basically heretics.
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Ok.
If we give up capitalizing the first letter of sentences, then what is left?
Punctuation itself is at risk people!
Wake up.
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AMEN & AMEN! A great comment, accurate to its core! Jesus is the Gospel; Calvinism (or any ism) is not.
I often tell my dear wife that she is one of the most godly men I know 🙂
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Punctuation Matters!
I was walking past a farm and a sign said:
“Duck, Eggs”
I thought: That’s an unnecessary comma – and then it hit me.”
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im thinking that this is the en
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Sandy,
well, who’s going to police the dotted i’s and crossed t’s? very dangerous business…
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The IT Department.
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Micah,
One cannot know for certain their ultimate status as one of the Elect. There are many who appeared to be regenerate/saved but have fallen away and never repented. There are also many whom God as called out of their sin and restored through repentance and renewed faith. Time will tell.
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Tumbleweed,
Keep that up, Tumbleweed and I’ll have a new favorite commenter! Just fabulous!
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Sandy,
look at you 🙂
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elastigirl,
which is to say “clever :)”
(stuff gets lost in translation in christian culture due to a virus that attacks metaphorical comprehension)
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Amen.
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senecagriggs,
We hear this all the time but no, it’s not true.
We can all choose the same path as Lawson but most of us don’t. Why not? Is it because God controls us all like puppets through his “Grace” but then somehow withdraws his Grace so that men like Lawson fail? Nah. What a horrid God that would be.
Which is why Calvinism leaves me cold. If we’re all predestined then the women and children who were abused by clergy were chosen by God to suffer. Nope. No way. What a sick picture that paints.
We either have free will or we don’t. If we do then Lawson chose to break his marriage vows by his own choice. And those of us who haven’t done so are in fact more upright than Lawson.
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Ahhh, but I know for sure that I chose God … I was there when it happened!
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Colin P. Kertson,
I understand this is your sincere belief.
however, i’m utterly bewildered as to how you can possibly have a relationship with God/Jesus/Holy Spirit without the basis for trust.
it’s like prioritizing a relationship with someone and never knowing if they even want you around, ever.
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Colin P. Kertson,
The people that are elect are those who are in on the whole deal assuming they were offered the whole deal (which mostly doesn’t happen).
Religion bosses that try to palm us off with half a Holy Spirit are denying us any Holy Spirit or Jesus or the Father at all.
Dee isn’t second guessing anyone about whether the subject of this column is going to “be saved”, she is pointing out the legitimate public fact that preaching less than the truth has backfired on him (so far).
This is why we need cast iron logic (such as that of the honest Arminius) to back up our assurance.
The people that are going to be in anguish in the hereafter – as opposed to now – are those who contrived for themselves / each other positions of authority while stealing the bread of life from the ears and lips of those smaller than themselves.
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Headless Unicorn Guy,
Hello HUG. Over the years there’s been quite a debate on the Puritan Board website about this. Here’s a summary of what BoT did –
“ In 1928, A.†W. Pink wrote what is to this day a classic-The Sovereignty of God. In twelve chapters and four appendices, Pink clearly and powerfully put forth the glorious truths of God’s sovereignty over every aspect of His creation. He met his redeemer in July 1952. By 1959, the book had gone through six printings by the Bible Truth Depot.
In 1961, The Banner of Truth Trust printed what they called their “British Revised Edition” of Pink’s book. In the preface to this edition, the publishers note that “the contemporary value of the book could be increased by certain minor revisions and abridgements.”17 What were these “minor” changes? THREE CHAPTERS and ALL FOUR APPENDICES were gone! In an unconscionable, sinister move, The Banner of Truth Trust whisked away 44% of the sections of Pink’s book; and it is obvious from the content of the censored chapters that it was because these chapters condemned as wickedness what The Banner of Truth Trust held dear. The chapters were: “The Sovereignty of God and Reprobation,” “God’s Sovereignty and Human Responsibility,” and “Difficulties and Objections.” The appendices deal with the false distinction between decretive and permissive will, the foreordaining of the Fall, and treatments of John 3:16 and 1 John 2:2 to show that there is not a universal love or propitiation. And instead of leaving the remaining text alone, the publishers felt it necessary to include a footnote where Pink put forth the true Calvinist view of 1 Timothy 2:6, referring the reader to a Banner of Truth book “for another interpretation of this text.”
Bot gave their side of the story here –
https://banneroftruth.org/uk/resources/articles/2002/a-little-debate-on-gods-sovereignty/
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In my mailbox this morning, aperceptive piece that alludes to Mr Lawson (and others) and offers timely advice about celebrity (Christian) culture.
https://www.evangelical-times.org/jordan-peterson-and-russell-brand-say-the-lords-prayer-so-the-internet-goes-crazy/?ref=early-online-access-newsletter
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Alex,
No! That’s not what Ephesians 1:4,5 says. Believers were elected ‘in Christ’ (not to be put in Christ) and predestinated to be Sons of God. Not just saved. Not just forgiven. Not just possessors of eternal life. But Sons of God and Joint-heirs with Christ!! This is the wonder of God’s grace which Calvinism misses!
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Just the title of that one screams “PERSECUTION ALERT!!!!!!!”
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Max,
Punctuation does indeed matter! There is a world of difference between these:
“Let’s eat, Grandma.”
And
“Let’s eat Grandma.”
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He defiitely did not believe what he preached. The idea of being exempt, if I see it right, is tongue in cheek. But I know a teeny tiny bit about this. He is probably not a believer at all. To go on for 5 years is not a stumbling sin that needs repented of and restoreation. It is a man who was deceived into thinking he was a genuine Christian, who had some natural abilities that flung him into Reformed Calvinist Hyper Space. Then the fame, glory, attention, applause, approvaL, pride, or whatever exact way it happened, he embraced a sinful lifestyle and then hid it for years. Lied, Lied, deceived, hid his sin, pretended. But God will not be mocked. Although not every predator is caught on this earht, many are. Some get away with it, then stand before the Judge of the Universe. Others are eposed. My heart goes out to his wife and family The woman is just as much at fault, although some of you will call it Adult Clergy Abuse, I disagree.
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So I’ve read through all the comments here and it seems that the subject of Calvinism appears to be the overwhelming topic discussed. Honestly, I think that can be a distraction.
What I’ve been wondering is what can cause a man, who has invested the majority of his life in teaching the Bible, to throw it all away for the sake of a romantic relationship with a woman 40 plus years younger than him? Somewhere along the line, Steve Lawson lost his way. Then I ask: Why the charade for 5 years? Did he actually believe he could pull the wool over everyone’s eyes and never be exposed? What were the psychological motivations on his part to act in such a reckless and foolish way?
What I’m saying is I want to get past all of the doctrinal wrangling and get to the heart of the matter of what causes a person like Steve Lawson to act in such an irresponsible manner? It would be nice to get an answer from the man himself, but something tells me that won’t be forthcoming. It befuddles me that someone is willing to trash their entire life’s work for the sake of a fleeting pleasure that will eventually doom their entire life and career.
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From the title of this piece: “believed he was exempt”?
Is there something in Calvinistic theology that would “exempt” such behavior by a man of the cloth? Is there some sort of allowable balance between determinism and free agency/moral responsibility in Calvinism? I don’t know, I’m asking.
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It will be an interesting day for the haters and stone throwers when they too stand before God in their self righteousness. I want to thank all of those who are saddened by this and are supportive of a man who really is a great bible expositor who fell in a time of weakness. Here’s to Julie Roys whose hard work is to come along side all those who despise the church of the Lord Jesus Christ and exploit any weakness with the intention of destroying the faith of others. Let’s see how things stack up for you in eternity. Praying for Steve Lawson, his marriage and family and also for this young woman that there would be forgiveness and healing.
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Max,
Perhaps your looking for perfection in which you’ll never find. He was fired isn’t that enough? It doesn’t discredit the truth of the bible in which yes predestination and election is a very real biblical doctrine. A man of the cloth? What, as if mere men could be holy in and of themselves? A beloved man of God fell and still forgiven in Christ. He is still loved and still will be by those who support the true church and are praying for him for restoration because that is what real Christians do.
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Wake up for what?
The sky could fall too, and then we’d all be screwed, right?
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All the while scaring the pew to death by preaching fire and damnation, while living on the edge of fire and damnation himself. It’s a familiar pulpit technique to divert attention … preaching against “sinful lifestyle” while living it themselves.
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Quick question. He preached double predestination. Do you not see the difficulty of God creating people to be condemned?
Are you not making an assumption here? Has he confessed and been forgiven for what he has done? From my reading, that just isn’t the case.
I’m sure you don’t mean to come across as arrogant, but you sound as if you are judging who is part of the “true church,” and that is predicated on “loving Steve.” The ones who are part of the true church are those who confess Jesus as Lord. I always find these conversations difficult because I feel as if I am up against someone who is “part of the elect” and who is pretty sure that those to whom he is speaking are not. As we have learned in this imbroglio, even the elect may be involved in prolonged sin (5 years.) I am still not sure who Steve is.
PS I like Julie Roys and consider her a friend.
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Max,
Good reply.
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I’m reading too many articles and comments about Steve Lawson. MAkes me crazy.
Note: Steve Lawson made a career and millions of dollars “casting the first stone.” Steve Lawson is the leader of the group that was gathered to condemn the woman they brought to Jesus. Amazing what people will do to relieve their cognitive dissonance.
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I totally agree with you. I’m just turning one of the Calvinistas’ favorite silencing methods around on one man, Phil Johnson, who is part of the problem. He tweeted details which, though probably true, may have betrayed a confidence. How did he know the things he tweeted? He implied he talked with “both parties” but didn’t say so. And “no literal fornication”. Just bizarre, and I assume there was lots of virtual fornication. And then he deleted the tweets and shamed the readers that they should address any questions personally to the silent Mr Lawson. I don’t know about any power struggles in the MacArthur camp, but it’s just possible Johnson has something to gain by Lawson no longer having existed. Maybe gossip isn’t the accurate term for his tweeting. I’m glad we know a little more than the lord is telling the patiently perplexed church elders. And glad reporters, bloggers, and commenters are talking about this.
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Perhaps the answer to your inquiries is above my pay grade, but I would say anyone who allows their theology to exempt themselves from egregious, sinful behavior, and to live like a hypocrite and justify it – is grossly lacking in their morality.
If we look at the articles on TWW over the years, however, it is clear that people of various theological persuasions commit the same. egregious acts as Steve Lawson. So it isn’t just Calvinistic/Reformed theology that is at fault here.
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Yes, sin and rebellion in the pulpit are not limited to theological creed. Non-Calvinists can be as totally depraved as Calvinists.
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Apparently, church elders are striving to move him to personal confession and repentance. From the BNG article:
“The elders have met with Steve and will continue to come alongside him and pray for him with the ultimate goal of his personal repentance.”
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But do non-Calvinists brag about their Total Depravity?
Or play “More Totally Depraved Than Thou” as PROOF of their Godliness?
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During my time ‘in country’ (in the various brands of Christianity), I’ve learned that you (generic you) can make the Bible say just about anything you want it to say.
I never did get into ‘reformed thought’, because in my opinion, it makes God out to be a mean kid with an ant farm, bright sunshine, and a magnifying glass.
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Story here that is providing updates.
https://protestia.com/2024/10/03/betrayed-more-details-about-steve-lawsons-double-life-revealed/
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R,
Well said thank you for your explanation
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Steve240,
Much has been written about the stealth and deception of the New Calvinists. This is another example.
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R,
Because you seem sincere in your explanation, let me ask:
Is there anything God, in His sovereignty, can choose not to do?
I believe He has chosen NOT to determine human choices, thereby requiring a love response to His free, gracious and loving offer of salvation. Whereas, calvinism attempts to defend His sovereignty by finding the locus of all choices in God.
So, what if God, in His sovereignty, chooses not to determine the choices of man?
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As a non-Calvinist for 70+ years, I’ve never dishonored God’s sovereignty and He’s never stood in the way of my free-will. The way I view the whole of Scripture, sovereignty and choice just seem to go hand-in-hand. IMO, when the Gospel is preached without jot & tittle doctrine, God “elects” whosoever-will-may-come into His Kingdom when they acknowledge and accept Christ as Savior. I realize this is the great dividing point in Calvinist vs. non-Calvinist belief and practice … it’s just unfortunate for any of us to get so caught up on theology that we miss what God is doing.
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Steve240,
At least for me, the pulpiteers’ website is completely and mysteriously down. I found a video referring to it, and it sounds like the situation is just as I guessed. Did they cite any sources? Any response from MacArthurites?
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Amen!
Every time a Calvinist “leader” gets in trouble the discussion invariably veers into (or is purposely steered into) a discussion on the merits of an “ism” that is, at best, a weird little religious sect. The real issues are obfuscated.
Mr Lawson apparently has to be “worked with” to get to the point of repentance, which simply reveals an unrepentant heart.
It’s as if his church leaders are saying, “Please repent so we can put this behind us and keep our positions.”
If a “MOG” needs to be asked to repent, just how Godly was he in the first place? How “manly”?
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It’s also part of the Calvinist playbook to divorce the actual actions of the man from the religious aspects of the leader, as they do with Calvin himself.
Research Calvin’s real-life actions, and their consequences, and you will see that it’s a feature, not a bug.
I believe it’s called “hypocrisy”.
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There’s a bad case of unrepentant repentance in certain corners of the American pulpit.
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The ninth commandment is not given for no purpose.
Let it be known that historic Calvinism (a poor ambiguous term in my opinion) expressed through reformed confessions does NOT teach that divine sovereignty negates human free choice and responsibility.
And further, if you believe Romans 9 is speaking only about nations, do you treat Romans 8:29-30 in the same way? It is astounding that you so firmly reject a doctrine that it was not because of something in you that brought you to faith compared to the unbeliever. But you really believe it was you alone that chose to believe and to come to Christ Jesus of your own free will? I have no idea how you deal in good conscience with passages like John 1:13, 15:16, Acts 2:39, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Ephesians 1:4, 1 Peter 2:9, without some serious mental gymnastics. But I leave this matter between you and God.
Either way, let us be humble, and recognise there is nothing we ascribe to ourselves of merit but our salvation is all of the grace of God according to the riches of His compassion and mercy.
And friends, let us be careful of the judgment we pronounce upon others, remembering the Lord’s words in Matthew 7:2.
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Alex 2,
A 500-year debate that will never be settled this side of Heaven.
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“It isn’t our responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is our responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning.” (1 Corinthians 5:12)
… while also remembering the Lord’s words in Matthew 7:22-23
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Alex 2,
Note the rapid-fire Strings of Bible-verse Zip Codes; this is usually a bright red warning flag indicating Weaponization.
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“Deception is my hunting spear; deception and ambition. You but Use and Discard, Oh Mighty [Queen] – I USE AND DEVOUR!”
— from an unpublished furry Sf/horror novella (Descent into Hell sub-type) by my other writing parther
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Alex 2,
What causes a person like Steve Lawson to do something like this? (Someone asked)
Simple! God pre-ordained, before the foundation of the world, that Lawson would do this! It is totally and completely God’s fault for man has no free will to do such a thing!!!
(Tongue planted firmly in cheek!)
The only one that God chose before the foundation of the world is Christ. Those that hear the word, the gospel if their salvation, and BELIEVE are placed IN CHRIST and sealed with the promised Holy Spirit. Before the foundation of the world God chose those who place their faith in Christ to be holy and blameless before Him. He predestined believes to become sons of God as well as ALL the spiritual blessings in the heavenly places In Christ!
Just read what it says and stopped getting confused by all the falseness!
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Indoctrination … same playbook.
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Bob,
Yes. Chosen to be holy and blameless before Him in love. Predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ.
As you said “Just read what it says and stop getting confused by all the falseness!”
Regardless of theological persuasion, it’s wise to read the whole of Scripture and stop cherry-picking verses to support pet theologies.
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What the smoke screen of Calvinism serves to do in this case is to distract from the issue, which is two women victimized by an allegedly “Christian” leader.
A married man has no business preying on a single woman, regardless of her level of participation in the relationship. And he has no business cheating on his wife and breaking her trust.
No matter how much the bros judge the single woman and judge his wife, which they are already, this is all 100% on Lawson.
Calvinism has nothing to do with it, except whatever influence it had on his rationalization in his own brain.
If you just assign a generic religion to him, as a thought experiment, it’s still wrong and the two women are the point.
Religious man cheats on wife, a movie we’ve all seen to often.
Justifying your own acceptance of a religious sect from the 16th century is callous at best, and completely misses the point!
Are you Calvinist Bros really that insecure in your sect that you can’t see the real issue here? Give it a rest already.
And to say that they didn’t consummate the relationship so it’s not so bad is to completely ignore what JESUS said on the subject.
Lawson is guilty of adultery no matter how they spin it, and he should never be heard from again.
Harrumph!
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Exactly. Theological defense of sin is a sin itself. Supporting abusers while ignoring victims is as bad as it gets.
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Tumbleweed,
Why Calvinism is even brought up is because of their false claim that God pre-ordains all that comes to pass before the foundation of the world. That means Lawson’s affair and fall from ministry is all part of God’s plan!
An extreme example would be to say that the rape of a woman or the molestation of a child is also pre-ordained. This is a truly sick theology and cultish!
These guys put guilt trips on people telling them how they MUST persevere to the end in order to be saved. Wonder how Lawson feels about that now!!!
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I suppose that would fall under the hyper-Calvinism category – these folks just dig themselves into a deeper hole with such belief. Pre-ordaining sin doesn’t sound like the God I know.
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Max,
Have you read John Calvin?
“All events whatsoever are governed by the secret counsel of God.” Therefore, “nothing happens but what [God] has knowingly and willingly decreed.” This excludes “fortune and chance.” Calvin applied his doctrine of providence concerning “all events” to individuals and their salvation in his doctrine of predestination.
You think that is “hyper-Calvinism”? That IS Calvinism!
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I suppose that is why 90+% of Christendom worldwide have rejected the tenets of reformed theology for the last 500 years. They think the essence of Christianity can be found in a set of rigid doctrines ‘about’ grace, rather than a direct experience ‘of’ Grace, an encounter with the Living Christ.
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Bob,
I understand that, but every time one of them does this, or something like it, the conversation degenerates into a discussion and defense of Calvinism. To what end?
Meanwhile, the families involved are often forgotten and the issue of spiritual abuse, or church abuse, often gets lost.
The larger issue(s) in my mind is whether or not Lawson returns to any kind of leadership position, how he addresses this sin publicly, and what happens to the women involved.
5 years is a long time to deceive 2 organizations, his followers, his colleagues, and his family.
That disqualifies him for any kind of ministry, imo, no matter what he believes.
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While certainly not limited to Calvinism, TWW has reported numerous times that authoritarian pulpits are prevalent in such ministries which can be spiritually abusive. TWW has a mission to inform and warn about abusive ministers and ministries, while also speaking for abuse victims.
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senecagriggs,
I bet you are a much better man!
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And even that isn’t enough.
Remember “Evanescent Grace”?
God sending False Assurance of Election/Salvation to the Reprobate, indistinguishable from the real thing until The Great White Throne? “FOOLED YOU! HAW! HAW! HAW!”
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And like SIOP nuclear strike plans during the Cold War, Collateral Damage doesn’t matter.
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Steve Lawson was in the lime light. A man in his position has fallen but God will restore him. It’s men like him who Satan targets because of their effectiveness in the body of Christ. Not one of us are better than Steve Lawson. Our sins were not not published but his was. Have mercy on him, forgive him and pray for him, his wife, his family and for this other woman. Mercy triumphs over judgment and love covers a multitude of sins.
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Rick,
So Satan targeted him, and he fell, but he is a man in a particular “position.” It would help if you thought about this. This was not a guy who had a one-night stand. He has done this over and over and over again for five years and only confessed because he was going to be outed. How do you know he is repentant? There is some question about that as well.
Is it possible that Lawson was not the man you thought he was? Also, I have news for you. Satan targets all of us, not only men “in his position,” whatever that means.