Photo by Ketut Subiyanto at pexels
“As long as the world shall last there will be wrongs, and if no man objected and if no man rebelled, those wrongs would last forever.” – Clarence Darrow (1857-1938), prominent American lawyer
I’m boiling. It’s time church members take matters into their own hands. The laws in the United States are on their side, but unjust authoritative pastors like John MacArthur pretend they are above the civil law. They claim they are subject to “God’s law,” and they are the ones who correctly interpret God’s commandments.
We learned everything we needed to know about their ethics and “Biblical” judgment when Julie Roys posted Opinion: John MacArthur’s Church Let Her Down. Now She is Standing in the Gap for Women. A woman’s husband abused her. Her children were molested and physically abused by her husband. Still, MacArthur and Grace told her to stay with her husband. Divorce was out of the question. Thankfully, Gray protected her children and herself. Her former church was considered to be an abusive church by many.
Eileen told me recently, as she shared about the circumstances that led to her becoming headline news throughout the past year, after she reluctantly came forward to share how her former church dealt with her family after the church elders learned of her husband’s abuse of their children. (Eileen’s then-husband, who eventually divorced her, was convicted of aggravated child molestation, corporal injury to a child and child abuse. He is serving a prison sentence of 21 years to life.)
The Christian Post published Woman says Grace Community Church wrongfully disciplined her over marital separation.
Point One: She was being defamed. I believe GRACE and MacArthur were also harassing her. Both harassment and defamation are matters of the law.
A woman claimed her husband abused her and underwent counseling at Grace, which, in my opinion, was a mistake. She felt bullied and experienced severe stress, which made her medical condition worse. She filed for separation.
Lorraine Zielinski had her name publicly announced in July during a Grace communion service as someone who has been put under church discipline concerning issues regarding the separation from her husband.
…In an email she sent Grace leaders in August that was forwarded to The Christian Post, Zielinski argued that “GCC has sadly defamed me and subjected me to church discipline in an inappropriate way.”
Point Two: The history of stories surrounding Grace and MacArthur appears to indicate that abused women are told to endure more abuse when they are told to bring abusive husbands home.
She claimed the counselors displayed
a shocking display of lack of care for my physical health. I came to notice that this became a pattern of those I would be in counseling with.”
Zielinski stated that she didn’t file for divorce, even though it was suggested by her lawyer. After filing for separation, she said it was her husband who filed for divorce and made it known to her and her daughter that he planned to remarry.
“This was before the pastors realized that it did not look right, and then they made him amend his divorce filing,” she claimed.
Point Three: She had already resigned from the church before it disciplined her, and she may have legal recourse if she decides to pursue it.
Her husband moved out, but one of the pastors wanted her to take him back. She was legally separated and moved out of the area.
When asked if she was considering legal action, Zielinski replied that she is “still trying to deal with a lot of what has taken place, and it’s still very difficult to talk about.”
…The Christian Post reached out via email and phone call to multiple people within Grace Community Church for a response to Zielinski’s allegations. No one returned a comment by press time
Point Four: Biblical counseling is not confidential, as provided by authoritarian churches. If you desire privacy, do not seek biblical counseling in the church or with groups associated with the church.
The counselor can report “sins” to the pastor, who may initiate church discipline. At the beginning of this post, I have listed a number of posts I have written on this subject: The Pain of Living With Bipolar Disease in a “Biblical Counseling” World.
I suggest finding a licensed counselor outside the member’s church. Do not be fooled. Biblical counselors are not licensed. They claim they are, but they are licensed by ACBC, which is not a professional licensing organization.
Your rights to resign from a church.
- If you sign a membership covenant, you have signed a legal document. This means the church can apply its discipline as spelled out, usually vaguely, in the “covenant,” which should be viewed as a contract. I have written extensively on this subject. Some of those thoughts are found in this post: Church Membership Covenants – Legal Contracts that are NOT Biblical!
- Even if the “covenant” states that you cannot resign if under church discipline, you can. That is your right as a citizen of the US,
- You must resign in writing and send that signed resignation to the church via certified mail. The church is liable for that letter, even if they refuse it.
- Churches must allow you to resign. Many churches pretend they do not have to allow a member to leave the church.
- If they don’t let you leave, you may have legal recourse, and we know how much churches like being threatened by lawsuits, especially if the litigants are serious.
What if the church is not allowing you to resign while claiming you are under church discipline?
I wrote How to Resign From a Church Whether or Not You Are Under Church Discipline. You will see the excerpt below the line. Folks, if the church plays hardball, a la Grace Church and John MacArthur, you must also play hardball. That means you will have to take a deep breath and tell the church you will sue them if they don’t leave you alone. I am not an attorney, but an attorney suggested these letters. Many have used the letters successfully and told me their stories; most have been successful.
Whatever you do, please do not talk or meet with anyone from the church’s leadership after you have resigned. This discussion may be interpreted as negating the resignation letter that you sent. Do not be fooled into thinking you can have a “reasonable” discussion with them. They will attack you and attempt to bring you under their control.
In our post Churches Attempting to Force Mediation and Limit Members’ Right to Resign Under Discipline™, churches are attempting to work their way around the law that allows for voluntary termination. However, churches have a problem. They cannot or will not describe to a potential member what the church will discipline or not discipline. A blanket statement “we practice church discipline” is too broad for any reasonable individual to understand what is meant. Therefore, members may continue to resign at any time from a church.
How to resign if you are not under discipline.
When you resign, you have no guarantee that the church will not retroactively place you under church discipline. This is what happened to Hinkley See Church Discipline and Abuse. Also, if you have resigned “nicely” and they pursue you, you may need to send the harsher letter found under the section “How to resign If you are under church discipline.”
1. Send a resignation letter.
We give special thanks to Arce, who knows a thing or two, for sending this format to TWW
- Send the following letter, return receipt requested (and tracking, in case the Post Office lets them have it without returning the card).
- Put the return receipt number on the heading of the letter (you can get the form with the number at the PO, before typing the letter).
Date
To the pastors and administrators at ____________ church.
This letter is notice that I am not longer a member [attendee] at _______________ church, effective with the date of this letter.
Your name
- You must mail the letter on the date on the letter and they will not receive it for a couple of days thereafter.
- Keep a copy, print out the tracking showing when it was delivered, keep the green card or, if it is refused, the returned letter (they are legally responsible for the content if they refuse it).
2. We do not recommend that you meet with the church leadership after sending this letter.
On a number of occasions, people have been asked to come into the church for a meeting with a pastor(s) and elder(s). We have received reports that these meetings are often difficult, with church leaders demanding that the resigned person seek their permission to the leave the church. They may also demand proof of seeking church membership at an approved church.
These meetings often lead to retroactive church discipline or harsh words since some in leadership believe that they own you, not unlike an indentured servant since you signed their contract. Remember, you are not responsible for their feelings about your departure. Do not take their anger or disappointment personally. That is their problem.
We suggest responding to a request for a meeting in a letter like this. Again, send this letter via certified mail.
Date
Dear Pastor Joe
Unfortunately, this is an inconvenient time for us to plan a meeting. We wish the church well and thank you for your interest.
Your name
How to resign if you are under church discipline or anticipate being put under church discipline.
Unfortunately, this is a time for you to play hardball. We know it is hard and empathize. However, keep the goal of leaving the church with minimum damage before you. Remember, when you joined the church, you had no idea what kind of men were running the church. They may have seemed nice in the beginning but grew increasingly authoritarian, often disciplining people for ill defined reasons such as *disrespect* for authority, asking too many questions, causing divisiveness, failure to support the *vision,* asking about finances, a matter of conscience, etc.
No, you are not going crazy. This sort of thing happens frequently and keeps TWW in business.
Here is the letter your must send in this instance.
The Steps:
- Resign your church membership prior to the all-church announcement. Better yet, before harsh discipline is applied.
- Keep your lips sealed.
- Do not tell anyone that you are going to take the following action. You do not want Sally Sycophant (we all know a few of these) to run to the pastors and report this, giving them an opportunity quickly schedule the all church gossip session.
The Letter:
We give special thanks to Arce, who knows a thing or two, for sending this format to TWW
- Send the following letter, return receipt requested (and tracking, in case the Post Office lets them have it without returning the card).
- Put the return receipt number on the heading of the letter (you can get the form with the number at the PO, before typing the letter).
Date
To the pastors and administrators at ____________ church.
This letter is notice that I am not longer a member [attendee] at _______________ church, effective with the date of this letter.
As a non-member, I am no longer subject to any of your discipline as of (date on letter). After (date on letter), any publication, notice, or speaking about me by any church staff or recognized church leader is no longer authorized by me.
Any negative remark or statement about me, any encouragement that people shun me, or any action other than deleting me from your records will be evaluated for possible legal action for libel or other tort claim against the individuals involved and the organization.
If any one asks about me, refer them to me, any other action may result in a tort claim against you.
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED. You must desist from any act that may harm my reputation or me or come between me and other persons of my acquaintance. Legal action may ensue.
Sincerely,
- You must mail the letter on the date on the letter and they will not receive it for a couple of days thereafter.
- Keep a copy, print out the tracking showing when it was delivered, keep the green card or, if it is refused, the returned letter (they are legally responsible for the content if they refuse it).
- Document any response or any failure to comply. If they (leadership or staff) call, listen but do not talk, except to say “I disagree” if they make a false statement about you.
- Document the conversation.
- Go to an attorney if they proceed to trash your reputation or that of your business.
- Do not respond by trashing the organization.
- Keep track of all emails, texts and phone calls from the church to you.
- Do not participate in any meetings and do not have discussions via email or text. Remind them that you are busy and do not wish to be contacted. If possible, put that in writing and keep copies to show an attorney if they refuse to leave you alone.
If the church continues to harass you, it’s time to get an attorney and consider legal action. If you read my links, you will see that these actions resulted in a monetary judgment against a church for one woman.
Final thoughts:
- It is my opinion that Grace Church and John MacArthur appear to be abusive when dealing with women caught in abusive marriages. I believe those women should leave the church ASAP.
- I do not believe that John MacArthur and Grace Church can be convinced to change.
- I have been writing about these stories for 15 years. I have concluded that our country gives the average person the right to sue their churches if the churches do not leave them alone after resignation. I believe the only recourse is to sue the church.
- I have counseled well over 100 individuals on how to leave their abusive church. Please get in touch with me if I can be of help. I have some fantastic ideas that folks have used to leave abusive churches, including a particularly clever idea for getting out of a hardball 9 Marks church.
- It is time to rebel and fight injustice in the church.
Noted: John McArthur is now 85 years old. Change is coming to Grace
senecagriggs(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
“John MacArthur and Grace Church: Where Abused Women Face Abusive and UnBiblical Church Discipline.”
On the other hand, Jesus says come to Him not to MacArthur:
“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavily burdened, and I will give you rest and refresh your souls … for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest, renewal, blessed quiet for your souls.” (Matthew 11:28-30 AMP)
Churches which serve up disciplinary abuse to the abused are not Churches of the Living God … Jesus is not in the mix … there’s nothing “gentle and humble in heart” about church leaders who mete out discipline rather than love to the hurting.
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Good. Hopefully, the Grace of Jesus will flow through the church rather than doctrines ‘about’ grace … there’s a vast difference.
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Anyone that has ever put in a tile floor can tell you that being just a whisker off at the get go will mean being horribly off when the job is done.
And right at the get go we mistake the local 501(c)3 organization for a church. And then seek to decide who runs the church, how it is run, etc.
And that organization is not and never was the CHURCH. When you put your faith in Christ you belong to THE CHURCH and no human can ever negate that. No human can deny you communion, baptism, membership, fellowship, or whatever.
Don’t join a man made institution. Be part of THE CHURCH. And if you encounter a leader or group for whom that is not good enough, run for your life!
Excellent article Dee, and I would add one thing for people to know: these powermongers network with each other. When you have to take legal means to leave, don’t expect to be welcomed into another group of the power hungry. They may blacklist you for life, and across many miles.
Which can be delightfully freeing!
linda(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
MacArthur and Hardy (who told her to “suffer for Jesus”) are MONSTERS, plain and simple.
readingalong(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Max,
Yeah, I have always thought that the Calvinistic euphemism “doctrines of grace” is grossly deficient in Grace.
Afterburne(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
That’s exactly why 90+% of Christendom have rejected the tenets of reformed theology for the last 500 years … it’s “deficient in Grace”. Calvinism, particularly “hyper” Calvinism as expressed by folks like MacArthur, prefers to think that the essence of Christianity can be found in a rigid set of doctrines ‘about’ grace, rather than a direct experience ‘of’ Grace. They minimize an encounter with the living Christ and individual Christian experience. They torture Scripture to make it say what they want to, defending their theology with mistruth and half-truth.
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Pro Tip from Seneca; Unless you have some spare money hanging around, do your absolute best to avoid going to court.
The young and naive believe they can get justice in Court. The reality? Court is a crap-shoot. Judges are a law unto themselves.
When Dee started this blog it was all about the sins of Sovereign Grace churches and their leader Mahaney. Sovereign Grace was attacked for inadequately dealing with some abuse issues in a couple of their churches.
So all the critics, including Dee, are yelling in chorus; “Sue the bastards sue the bastards.”
The first court go-round, Sovereign Grace won on a technicality. That is promptly appealed. Sovereign Grace again won on a technicality.
The critics are screaming for a third shot at the ring but that never happened.
Here’s the probable reason. The lady lawyer leading the case agreed to take the case on a contingency; If her client wins the civil suit the lawyer group will take a percentage of the money. That’s how it works these days.
Second shot – again the lawyer apparently didn’t ask much to fund the case.
But the third shot, an appeal? There’s no contingency this time because appeals are so much more expensive so she needs some money upfront – maybe $40,000 dollars. Plaintiff doesn’t have that kind of money, has already lost twice, could lose again and wast $40,000 plus. Plaintiff dropped the case much to the disappointment of rabid blog commenters who apparently weren’t willing to put up their own money to fund the case.
Again, going to court is a Crap-shoot.
senecagriggs(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
1 Corinthians 7:15 says that if your unbelieving spouse wants to leave, let them “but God has called us to peace.” Yet churches try to force people to stay? I am so so glad you have warned me about the church contract covenants. Thank you.
JJallday(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Well, that’s depressing Macrthur’s Charismatic Chaos wa pivotal to my conversion. I guess you can take a man out of fundamentalism but can’t take the fundamentalism out of the man.
AARON KOOINGA(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
There is anything but grace at Grace Community Church.
Steve M.(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
In other words, they were not declared innocent. It was simply a statute of limitations. So folks turned their attention to that. These SOLs are changing for child sex abuse. Some have succeeded in court, and I believe a significant surprise in this area will soon be brought to light.
Did you contribute to CJ’s defense fund?
dee(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
It’s like “Peoppe’s” and/or “Democratic” in the name of a Third World country.
“The more adjectives about Democracy in a country’s official name, the nastier a Dictatorship it is.”
— TV Tropes
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
I’ve been sayin’ for awhile now that a bombshell’s gonna’ drop, and one of those big Protestant outfits is gonna’ be taken to task in court, especially when child sex-abuse is involved. Huge pay-outs and all.
Muff Potter(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
dee,
“Did you contribute to CJ’s defense fund?” Dee
Good one Dee – smiling
senecagriggs(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Reminds me of when the adulterous woman was brought to Jesus. Where was the man she was caught with (assuming it was a man of course)? Jesus chose to extend grace to this woman I think in part because of the way the woman was targeted and not the man.
Observant Outsider(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
“Admirals in rowboats”
Believer(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
I was an object of this “You cannot resign if you are under discipline” method of Uber-Control and non-Christian handling of problems. I’d prefer t remain anonymous. Dee, I am using a different email, but if you email that, I will tell you my identity. I was a member of Bethlehem Baptist for 13 years. John Piper was pastor for 7 of those years, then it transitioned to Jason Meyer. I’d gladly write the long version of this story, but the short is this: I had a struggle with sin, unnamed, for years, but had come there to get help from the elders/leaders/counseling pastor. After being a member for about 5 years, they brought a group in who counseled them to institute “Relational Commitments,” which were related to several things. 1 was safety of children. Another was discipline of members for unrepentant sin. There were 2 or 3 more. You were not given a choice. They announced in a church business meeting that these standards were being implemented, and if you did not want to submit, you were free to resign. However, my family was there, so I said nothing. One of the minor points was that if you were under church discipline, you agreed that you could not resign. but this is where is gets sticky. And I quote “we waive our right to withdraw from membership or accountability while discipline is pending against us.” That is vague. The “while discipline is pending against us” part is gray. If an elder has spoken to you, particularly the counseling pastor, and engaged one other person, and in that person’s estimation, you are not complying with every opinion of the elder, you are under pending discipline. This can all be found on their website. I had been free from this particular sinful pattern for years, but failed numerous times. Each time, I was transparent with the men in my small group, the counseling pastor and my wife, in confessing it and forsaking it. In the last instance, the counseling pastor asked me to move out from living with my wife. A nationally known expert in the area under question had counseled me that separation from my wife was not a good idea. So, I resisted. The counseling pastor called our meeting to an end, met privately with my wife and informed her that they were going to ex-communicate me, without informing me ahead of time. It caught me totally off guard. This action destroyed my life. The reverberations are still enormous. There is a lot more to it. Contact me at the email I left to know the rest.
Snuffy Stirnweiss(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
The lack of confidentiality and abusive nature of the so called biblical counciling reminds me of the Bible based cult I grew up I. One pastor said it would honour God if an abused wife stayed with her abusive husband even if she were to be killed by him. This also what Macarthur’s cult teaches.
Grahame Gee(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Dee responded to me via email. We will speak the week of Oct 1. I am afraid of public exposure.
Snuffy Stirnweiss(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
In addition to his abysmal handling of abuse cases and the atrocious treatment of women abused by their husbands or fathers, JMA is also quite the racist, apparently:
https://baptistnews.com/article/what-has-john-macarthur-actually-said-about-race-slavery-and-the-curse-of-ham/
It’s all about the power with this man (and probably “all about the benjamins”, too).
Truly evil.
Gus(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
++++++++++++
What a d!pshit.
Just getting right to the point.
Elastigirl(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Snuffy Stirnweiss,
I appreciate the courage it takes to speak out. It is a public service. I hope there is some measure of relief for you in doing so.
Elastigirl(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Grahame Gee
” One pastor said it would honour God if an abused wife stayed with her abusive husband even if she were to be killed by him. This also what Macarthur’s cult teaches.”
I’m sorry. That is a flat out lie.
The physical safety of a physically abused wife is of the highest importance and clearly taught in those engaged in biblical counseling.
[ My best friend, a counselor, would tell the women “Run fast and run far and for goodness sake, DO NOT PICK UP THE PHONE TO CHECK ON YOUR HUSBAND.” But they almost always did at which point they almost always returned – leading to the continuation of the abuse.]
senecagriggs(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
… coupled with a high level of spiritual ignorance by those who follow him. When I look at ministries like this, I don’t know who to be more concerned about … the pulpit or the pew!
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
And then we get this from the Father of New Calvinism:
“If it’s not requiring her to sin, but simply hurting her, then I think she endures verbal abuse for a season, she endures perhaps being smacked one night” (John Piper)
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Seneca
You are supposedly some form of counselor. Your response in this case was over the top and I’m irritated. As has been proven, MacArthir wanted a sex abuser of his own children to be reunited with his wife. So, it is apparent that MacArthur’s church thinks nothing of destroying the life of a child so why is Graham’s thought outlandish.
So stop it. You love MacArthur just like you love Mahaney. We get it. but do not insult us.
dee(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
dee,
The really scary thing is there are multiple thousands of church folks who think just like Seneca. They filter everything through an aberrant theological grid and personality worship. I knew an adult Sunday School student once who believed that only the MacArthur Study Bible offered absolute truth.
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
I’ve heard similar lies taught in the weird space of complementarian land. In a small group setting, “the leader” told the story of a wife persevering by getting beaten by her “husband” for attending church and then much later her husband was finally “saved.” I think I also read this story in a book about lies women believe. These did not make much sense to me. Then later, I think, Dee had a post about Paige Patterson acknowledging that this story was made up, or something along those lines. I guess these are used, it seems to me, to “wear her down,” and supposedly build men up or keep them safe, as if that dynamic could produce anything, anything helpful for human health and growth.
Seneca, you do not seem to be, or want to be, trauma informed. The “body keeps the score,” of the chronic lack of safety, both emotionally and physically. Thank God, there are counselors that are trauma informed, but they may not be found in the weird space of Calvinista Complementarian land.
Ella(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Not true. Piper said this:
“Part of that answer’s clearly going to depend on what kind of abuse we’re dealing with here . . . .
If this man, for example, is calling her to engage in abusive acts willingly – group sex, or something really weird, bizarre, harmful, that clearly would be sin. Then the way she submits – and I really think this is possible, it’s kind of paradoxical [sic]. She’s not going to go there. I’m saying no, she’s not going to do what Jesus would disapprove [sic], even though the husband is asking her to do it.
She’s going to say, however, something like, “Honey, I want so much to follow you as my leader. I think God calls me to do that, and I would love to do that. It would be sweet to me if I could enjoy your leadership.” And so – then she would say – “But if you would ask me to do this, require this of me, then I can’t – I can’t go there.”
Now that’s one kind of situation. Just a word on the other kind. If it’s not requiring her to sin, but simply hurting her, then I think she endures verbal abuse for a season, she endures perhaps being smacked one night, and then she seeks help from the church.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OkUPc2NLrM
Snuffy Stirnweiss(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Snuffy Stirnweiss,
Anyone who reads that quote and seriously reflects on what he is saying should conclude that John Piper is a strange little man who should not be offering counsel to the abused.
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Snuffy Stirnweiss,
““Honey, I want so much to follow you as my leader. I think God calls me to do that, and I would love to do that. It would be sweet to me if I could enjoy your leadership.”–John Piper
+++++++++++++++++++
…..
no woman needs a man to lead her. no woman needs a man’s leadership.
i just….
the smartest, toughest person in the room is a woman.
elastigirl(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Honey, I want you bring me my tea to the third floor study when I ring my little bell.
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
When all hell breaks loose in America, I would rather fight it out in a foxhole with godly church women than a bunch of churchmen spiritual wimps. Some of the godliest ‘men’ in the church are women! 🙂
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Another thing to do is, if you are making automatic donations to a church you plan to leave (especially if you are leaving under bad circumstances), know how to turn them OFF (whether it is processed through the church, through your bank, or a third-party like PayPal).
Any donation made AFTER you leave is still valid, and under IRS rules they can’t refund them except in rare instances (such as fraud). So, turn them OFF BEFORE you send the letter of resignation.
Mark R(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
I’ve said it numerous times, and I’ll say it again, women are the stronger of our species.
It’s been proven over and over again in real life.
Piper lives in a fantasy world concocted from making the Bible say what he wants it to say.
Muff Potter(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Unfortunately, the Pied Piper fathered a movement which is doing the same thing … it’s called New Calvinism.
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
NOt “Pied Piper”.
PIOUS Piper.
P.S. Little thing about the Pied Piper story. “Pied” means wearing clothes of several colors sewn together. I Think there was some sort of folk tradition that the Devil would appear dressed in Pied.
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
Remember the Pious Piper’s physique.
He probably doesn’t have the size, strength, or stamina to walk down and then up two flights of stairs.
Above and beyond his 24/7 workload of researching Utterly Correct Theology like Elron Hubbard researching ever higher and deeper levels of Scientology.
Headless Unicorn Guy(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)
… to lead the children off into the aberrations of New Calvinism
Max(Reply & quote selected text) (Reply to this comment)