The eerie glow of a dead star, which exploded long ago in a supernova, reveals itself in this @NASAHubble image of the Crab Nebula. NASA
“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” ~Maya Angelou
Yesterday, I had a delightful talk with a TWW regular. I won’t name him because I didn’t ask. I’ve been a bit tired lately with COVID-prolonging the date they can operate on my breast to see why I am having problems. When things get frantic, as with the Robert Morris thing, it is easy to lose sight of the joy I have experienced in blogging. I never imagined the wonderful people I have been privileged to meet along the way. When things get a little busy, please know that I am doing my best to return to what GBTC calls “regular programming.” Keep an eye on Shamika’s story. It has attracted the attention of Black Christian News, which advocates for those involved to contact her. She has also received some outside help, and if possible, I will keep TWW informed. There are some wonderful people out there who are willing to jump in and see what they can do. I didn’t know what I was getting into 15 years ago, but I’m glad this happened. Thank you for coming along.
The Evangelical church is the Serengeti for those seeking to harm the innocent and trusting church members and their children.
The Serengeti is also renowned for its large lion population and is one of the best places to observe prides in their natural environment.[5]
What do these lions hunt?
Zebras, antelopes and wildebeests.
And it is effortless for them to devour the fresh kill of their choice.
And some wolves come into a church, posing as pastors, to gain access to a whole bunch of people who believe that their pastor is above reproach. They love the “trust and submit” verses in the Bible and spend their days taking advantage of what some would call the faithful. Perhaps the “blind” faithful is a better descriptor. The faithful in today’s churches have been taught that a church that is growing in numbers is a church that is following the Lord. Meanwhile, the celebrity pastor at the helm looks out over his “flock” at each gathering and sees easily manipulated people.
I have received comments from members of churches who claimed that they “know” their pastor, who they “know” is walking the walk. They are naive. They don’t know their pastor. They merely know what they have been told, and it is far easier to accept what is being said as “gospel” truth instead of acting like an actual church member and trying to figure out what is going on.
As Christians, we are told to respect the authority of the pastor.
This is the sticking point. There is an assumption that the pastor, in these instances, is worthy of that respect. Folks, a flashy pastor who can talk a good game up front is not a saint. They are a sinner just like you and those around you. That must never be forgotten.
1 Corinthian 16-15-16 NIV
15 You know that the household of Stephanas were the first converts in Achaia, and they have devoted themselves to the service of the Lord’s people. I urge you, brothers and sisters, 16 to submit to such people and to everyone who joins in the work and labors at it.
! Thessalonians 5:12-13 NIV
12 Now we ask you, brothers and sisters, to acknowledge those who work hard among you, who care for you in the Lord and who admonish you. 13 Hold them in the highest regard in love because of their work.
Hebrews 13:17 NIV
17 Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account. Do this so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no benefit to you.
Many on this website have told horror stories of church discipline for not submitting to a pastor’s vision or authority. What went wrong?
They didn’t listen carefully and question what was being said. I have two examples.
Robert Morris laughed about having more demons than James Robinson
Head over to the 40 mark and listen for a few minutes.
Robert Morris let us know in this video that demons afflicted him, lots and lots of demons. More demons than James Robison, to be precise. Everyone in the audience yucked it up while listening to this. And this is where everyone made a fatal mistake. If this man claimed to have been so infested with demons, how could anyone trust him to tell the truth? Remember, Satan is the Father of lies. Morris once claimed that Paul was preaching under the influence of demons. I wrote about it in 2014. Do you understand that such a belief calls Paul’s epistles into question?
But was Morris hinting that he was hiding something? I’m not so sure I buy “the demons made me do it,” and all I have to do is get those demons to bond and repent, and the demons will go away. Here is a tricky question that I asked.
Also, has any study been done to see if people who attend Gateway Church have fewer problems with pride, alcohol, pornography, lust, etc.? Since they are delivering people from demons regularly, Morris should have statistics on why Gateway Church is more *demon free* than other churches?
Could it be that Morris focused on the demons because he had a serious problem? Could it be that he knew he was sexually attracted to preteen girls like Cindy Cleminshire? Could it be that he kept needing to be “freed” from demons because he was dealing with a grave sin and a possible paraphilia? Did he take his people on a road trip to get rid of his problem by going the demon route?
Folks, Morris appeared to be telling you something. Could it be that those around him were so enthralled that could preach a good game and attract tens of thousands of people? Could it be that he was promising something that he hoped would help his dark secret? Let’s get rid of those demons. Did those around him fail him by submitting to him as he climbed to the mega-mega church status? Did anyone ask why Morris had so many demons? And were they actual demons or a personality disorder that needed intensive psychiatric help? Did anyone care enough to cut through the jargon? Is it possible that there have been other victims through the years? Have others not come forward since they were taught to “respect the pastor” even when the pastor acts like a lion on the Serengeti?
Josiah Anthony, formerly of Cross Timbers Church, TX, often said he had a mental illness. Did anyone do something about it?
Folks, this is getting worse by the hour. The Christian Post published Pastor Josiah Anthony engaged in sexual messaging with women Cross Timbers Church reveals.
Days after claiming their former lead pastor resigned over “inappropriate and hurtful” behavior toward current and former staff that was not sexual, elders of Cross Timbers Church in Argyle, Texas, said they discovered that Josiah Anthony engaged in behavior that was sexual in nature and are bracing for more allegations to come.
“After announcing Josiah’s resignation to our congregation, we then learned about additional inappropriate comments he made in text messages and through social media that were sexual in nature,” the elders of the Texas megachurch said in a new statement to congregants published by survivor advocate, Amy Smith on Friday.
Fox 4 reported Argyle church leaders apologize for the way former pastor’s resignation was handled. I thought the elder might focus on something I saw, but he didn’t.
During Sunday’s service, Elder Jon Sullivan apologized to the congregation
…As elders, we have made some mistakes along the way. We should have communicated more directly and clearly early with you. Our lack of clarity led to many assumptions being made about the situation. And in trying not to cause unnecessary harm, we inadvertently did.”
They at least got this part right.
The elders do not consider any of the incidents to be emotional affairs.
…You may have read in an interview given this week by a staff member that the term was used. That staff member inadvertently used an inaccurate term. An affair, whether emotional or physical, requires consent. These interactions could not be consensual because of the unequal power dynamic created by Josiah’s position as the pastor in the church,” Sullivan said. “This imbalance of power makes these interactions especially grievous for us, and that behavior will not be tolerated at the church.”
I think Josiah Roberts told his church that he had a problem, and they didn’t care enough to take him at his word. Back to the Christian Post.
“Josiah has been open in his preaching about his mental health issues. And he suggested that his actions were a result of his struggles. However, upon further investigation, we discovered that Josiah was not forthcoming or transparent, and had a concerning pattern of behavior communicating inappropriately with women,” they added.
Let me get this straight. He preached about his mental health issues, and no one in the congregation thought that he might be telling them something. Did they think:
“Isn’t it wonderful how transparent he’s being with us. I feel like I know him.”
Folks, he was telling you that he had a problem. Someone should have demanded that he get a psychiatric evaluation to continue in his position. But Christians aren’t wired that way, are they? They are trained to be docile sheep even when it is evident that something is wrong.
Right now, Cross Timbers Church’s website is offline. Yet it purportedly had 3,000 members.
What’s going on in North Texas churches?
The Denton Chronicle noted: Several North Texas pastors step down, removed from positions amid controversies.
North Texas churches have seen a string of high-profile departures in recent weeks amid claims of “moral failures,” “immoral” behavior, and in some cases, sexual abuse.
At least seven North Texas pastors from mostly megachurches have resigned or been fired since May.
Three have been arrested on charges related to sex offenses and another is under an internal church investigation for similar allegations. Claims against other pastors are vague.
Michelle Simpson Tuegel, a Dallas-based victims’ rights attorney, said what’s happening in North Texas is kind of a “domino effect.”
“It often starts with the voice of one courageous survivor who comes forward…and it communicates to other survivors within that institution and often others, that they’re not alone,” she said.
…Pete Singer, executive director of Godly Response to Abuse in the Christian Environment (GRACE), said it’s important a church is transparent with its members when a person has abused or harmed an individual.
“[Churches] need to give some details because saying that just that a person resigned, not giving any other details, doesn’t give other people who may have been harmed notice that it’s OK to come forward,” Singer said.
You can see the churches listed.
Here are the problems that I see at the core of these problems.
- Unquestioned celebrity pastors who are giving hints that there is a problem.
- Church members who are reluctant to question the leader of the flock.
- Elders who don’t elder but play at being the best buddies of the rainmaker pastor.
- Pewsitters who …well, sit and pretend they know their pastor.
- People fear to say anything since it will appear they are questioning “those in authority.”
- Having lots of demons may be another way of saying something is wrong.
- Churches grow too fast and become entertainment venues as opposed to churches.
- If a church acts less like an entertainment venue, the people will go to other entertainment-based churches.
- A “good sermon” doesn’t mean a sermon that effects change in the hearer.
- More churches in Texas, the US, and internationally will be exposed in the next five years.
- Church members need to stop trusting those in ministry. They are still sinners like all of us.
- Parents…stay with your kids on all church trips and youth activities. Form a small group of friends who will work to keep an eye on these events.
- Pedophiles come to your church because you are too trusting.
- Pedophiles and other molesters are capable of giving great sermons. It isn’t that hard. Some pastors can buy their sermons online.
- Robert Morris and Josiah Anthony gave plenty of clues that something was wrong.
- And never forget that “The devil made me do it” is an easy excuse.
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I’m not sure I follow you on this one, Dee. Specifically the story about this Josiah Anthony guy. It sounds like you’re saying a pastor who acknowledges any kind of mental health struggle should automatically be suspected of abuse. No other warning signs are mentioned, as if simply saying “I have a mental health problem” is “showing you who they are” and that person shouldn’t be trusted. Most people with depression or anxiety or OCD don’t send creepy texts to people who work for them. There was something else going on with this guy, whatever his diagnosis was.
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“As Christians, we are told to respect the authority of the pastor.”
Scripture also exhorts us to give respect to whom respect is due (Romans 13:7).
Thus, Christians are caught in a tension to respect pastoral authority when “Pastor” becomes authoritarian, spiritually (or otherwise) abusive, or downright mean. While we are to respect the office of pastor, it becomes difficult to trust everyone who holds that title. TWW has documented multiple pastors who betrayed the trust of those who followed them. I hold respect in my pocket until I can determine if respect is due.
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Hell Low!
“What’s going on in North Texas churches?”
I’ll tell y’all. There’s nothing much worse going on in those than anywhere else. But the failure to cover up the worst is, just like Mr Morris says, our fault. This is unacceptable! Heads are rolling (figuratively). Not that imp-pastors need us to tempt them. They come up with all that all on their own. But, many of our cockroaches in the DFW are scurrying because their misdeeds are being exposed to the li… li.. I can’t say that word… they’re being resigned, fired or arrested and the ligh… er l-word is being shined on them by Wartburgers and the other daughters of Stan who Mr Morris thinks are our agents. It’s incompetence in the lowerarchy! So I’m announcing that our bureau chief for the DFW has been fried (not a typo) and the junior assistant Chief in charge of the Villagers is hereby promoted! He did a masterful job when some coarse jesting with the other woman was about to hit the air conditioner. 1st he suggested they hire a team of liars. Then that they get everyone who might know anything to sign non-disclosure agreements. Wait a full 6 months. Then some crocodile tears on stage without confessing to any actual sins. Followed by a vacation, some hunting, a triumphant return with standing ovation and back to business as usual! 1st rate darkening! Even li… still can’t say that word… shined by daughters of Stan may be unable to pierce this darkness our new Chief inspired! His right-hand tempter will be the devil in charge of Dr Tony’s place. He’s hoping to get business back to usual there ASAP after Dr Tony might have done someone wrong in some unknown way sometime long long ago.
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And some wolves come into a church, posing as pastors, to gain access to a whole bunch of people who believe that their pastor is above reproach.
Serious question, why do wolves get such a bad rap, especially in Christian circles?
When in actuality, they are noble creatures.
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You know what’s interesting? In the Serengeti many of the predators, especially the lions and hyenas, go straight for the genitals just like so many of our pastors! Very apropos. Look it up on Youtube if you don’t believe me.
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I was in a church many years ago where two pastors covered for each other. Senior pastor was a serial adulterer; youth pastor was sexually abusing boys. They intimidated people who wanted to know what was going on, and they would force them out of the church if they questioned anything. They were finally discovered. The youth pastor took off in the middle of the night and went out of state (laws were different then on child sex crimes). The pastor would make jokes about adultery from the pulpit and the youth pastor spent time with “troubled” children( the ones he abused). They almost seemed to glory in their crimes.
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Hi Dee. Paul in his final address in Acts before leaving the elders of Ephesus warned in Acts 20 “savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock”. Nothing has changed.
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Yes. Thank God for the Internet and for the Faithful so the Wolves are exposed to The Rest of Us.
This is an excellent post. The bullet list of 16 at the end is particularly helpful.
We could add to that list:
– The ONLY 100% foolproof safeguard to prevent violations and protect the innocent is BOUNDARIES.
For example, when Elders BFF the pastor, boundaries just went down the tube.
When Youth are tight with their Youth Pastor, opportunities for violation abound.
When the counseling pastor gets physical or sexual with counselees, he has crossed a bridge too far.
A pastor accumulating $117M personal wealth from ministry is definitely NOT seeking 1st the Kingdom of God and His righteousness so that “all these things” (essential needs) are his, provided by God. That $117M pastor has long arms dipping into parishioners’ pockets to build himself a personal dynasty of personal wealth. Regard for widows, orphans, and displaced peoples, like the Bible mandates? Nope, the $117M pastor is all about himself. The pastor used the Power of his Position and his Platform to build himself his $117M dynasty.
Traditionally, the religious servants of God take vows of obedience, poverty, and chastity. These values are totally lost on the current celebrity dynasty building pastors.
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Along with your long list of problems that you note, Dee, is the change in church polity. In congregationally run churches (like the SBC used to be), there was the dreaded monthly “church business meeting.” I say “dreaded”, because as a pastor I never knew what was going to be brought up: someone or a group upset about me or a staff member, or merely a motion to repaint the bathrooms. Good or bad, every church member could bring an issue to the floor of the church to be heard. And many difficult and troubling issues were heard during business meetings in my 25 years in the pastorate.
But no more: the neo-Cal churches now have “elders”, and the elders decide what gets discussed – or not. Many SBC churches now are “elder-led” and the business meetings are no more. The “senior pastor” and his handpicked elders make all the decisions, “hire and fire”, and the congregant is expected to sit in the pew, nod their heads to all that is placed before them, and most importantly, GIVE THEIR TITHES AND OFFERINGS TO FINANCE IT ALL!
Case in point: a family member belongs to a formerly congregationally led SBC church. This past year the entire congregation was invited to respond to a SurveyMonkey poll on every church staff member. BUT they had to sign their names, any anonymous surveys would be thrown out, and if anyone had a concern about a staff person they had to make an appointment with two elders appointed by the pastor to discuss their issues. Just another way to cut off dissent and anyone with an opposing viewpoint.
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“Robert Morris Admitted to Lots of Demons”
“I am not surprised! Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.” (2 Corinthians 11:14 NLT)
And I wouldn’t be surprised if Gateway Church members gave Morris a standing ovation when he admitted that!
Foolish behavior in the pew backing up madness in the pulpit! The American church is on a trajectory for yet more TWW posts.
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To my mind it takes quite a bit of scripture twisting to bind the laity under the idea of respecting pastors as if the pastors were in some sort of authority position.
Nope. Soul freedom. Soul competency. Priesthood of THE believer.
There is no laity. We who are saved are ALL priests.
THAT is the elephant in the room that needs addressing and fixing.
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No doubt about it … congregational governance had its share of problems. Too many SBC churches have been run by demon-deacons and/or powerful ruling families. And some of the monthly business meetings I sat through as a Southern Baptist were birthed in Hell. The Holy Spirit couldn’t get a word in edgewise. After one very contentious church business meeting where a prominent member demanded their way, an old saint commented to me on the way out “That’s why you should never give the Devil a microphone.” The shift to elder-rule polity within SBC may have put the brakes on devils in the pew, but devils in church leadership have now been released. The SBC is done … it just hasn’t quit yet.
Come Lord Jesus.
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Henry Cloud was Morris’ personal therapist for individual therapy. Maybe still is. From the Cloud/Townsend series of books, Boundaries, Boundaries in Marriage, Boundaries in Dating, etc.
Cloud also gave the Sunday message from the “pulpit” at Gateway. At least once but I think more.
I wonder if he agreed with the lawyer and with Morris, that he shouldn’t make financial amends to Cindy Clemishire.
These guys seem to feel that the most important boundaries are the ones around their bank accounts.
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It’s been an interesting 2024 watching the fireworks in the DFW Metroplex region turn into an atomic chain reaction. Hopefully it spreads to co some the frauds in Houston and the rest of the country soon.
The Church will ever stand, but the Religious Entertainment Complex needs to die a painful and public death. Soon.
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The New Calvinists have given a new name to the powermonger at the top … instead of “senior” pastor, he is now called “lead” pastor. Many SBC church plants have a 20-something lead pastor, with a handpicked band of yes-men “elders” also in their 20s. When these immature church leaders start acting up, it would be prudent to starve them out by zipping up your wallet or getting off the bus.
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N,
If Cloud believes that Morris shouldn’t make financial amends to Cindy Cleminshire, my respect for Cloud has just nosedived. The rot in the evangelical industrial complex stinks to high heaven!
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The real Church still has Christ on the throne, not the Great God Entertainment. I hope to live long enough to see a funeral preached for the “Religious Entertainment Complex.”
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Wolves in shepherd’s clothing … they sometimes run in packs.
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In both ways.
1) Induging the Urrges in their Aareas.
2) Freaking out and obsessing over Pelvic Issues.
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I can attest from experience that you don’t even need a Lead Pastor.
Groupthink between 20-something Elders can fill that position just as well.
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These guys are better described as feral junkyard dogs.
Wolves have more class than that.
Go here for a taste of REAL Wolfness:
https://www.youtube.com/@nywolforg/videos
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Interesting study from Australia on Phys dot org today about the prevalence of abuse in churches. People need to grasp the reality of the situation.
Pray for wisdom.
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https://phys.org/news/2024-08-reveals-prevalence-child-sexual-abuse.html
Oops. Left out the link
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Without Groupthink, there would be no New Calvinist movement … they walk the same talk, parroting each other all the way.
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Unfortunately, that pretty much sums it up. If it’s good for the pastor’s war chest wallet, it’s holy, righteous, and obviously blessed by God. Sanctification is evidenced by wealth.
Of course, this has nothing to do with Jesus and His disciples. The disciples, it seems, were a mixed lot over various socioeconomic strata.
But Jesus, God’s Son, the most righteous of all, was born, lived, and died as anawim, the least of the least. If God is all you’ve got, God is all you need. That would be Jesus. These seems lost today in our churches. Vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience are long gone from Evangelicalism.
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I once heard a ridiculous case made by a prosperity preacher that Jesus was obviously wealthy because He had his own treasurer (Judas)! It seems that the American pulpit is willing to twist anything to defend their style of ministry.
Instead of a rich Jesus, the Messiah preached this: “If you wish to get it right [that is, have the spiritual maturity that accompanies godly character with no moral or ethical deficiencies], go and sell what you have and give [the money] to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me [becoming My disciple, believing and trusting in Me and walking the same path of life that I walk].” (Matthew 19:21 AMP)
Instead of retreating to a multi-million dollar mansion after His journeys, Jesus said “The foxes have holes and the birds of the heaven have nests, but the Son of Man does not have a place where He may lay His head.” (Matthew 8:20)
Yep, the Christian Industrial Complex is preaching another Jesus, another gospel which is not ‘the’ Gospel at all.
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Seems to be a pocket of bad-boy preachers in the DFW area who have trouble keeping their pants on. But, if you follow TWW, this is a nationwide dilemma … the American church has been infiltrated by wolves in shepherd’s clothing.
“They have crept in unnoticed, just as if they were sneaking in by a side door. They are ungodly persons whose condemnation was predicted long ago, for they distort the grace of our God into decadence and immoral freedom, viewing it as an opportunity to do whatever they want” (Jude 4 AMP)
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Re Max….congregants should not only zip up their wallets….but also the womens and childrens pants….predators….
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“More DEMON-Possessed Than Thou” is the latest Christianese One-Upmanship claim?
“Demons” can have a figurative as well as literal meaning; the kicker is Christians always go for the utterly literal meaning. Which makes everyone yukking it up like Caligula’s courtiers even more bizarre.
But then, Greg Locke’s loyal pewsitters have no problem with Locke getting hot tips (about Satan’s Witches infiltrating his church) from Demons he’s fighting and binding through Spiritual Warfare. If Greg Locke talks to demons, does that make him a warlock?
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Wasn’t Judas embezzling from the treasury?
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Phys dot org is one huge site.
Can you give us a direct link to the article?
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Given the context, the Rabbi from Tarsus was definitely using an idiom to make his point:
Successful Predators/Sociopaths are masters of camouflage.
Because Apostle Morris is so Godly he goes Mano-a-Mano with Demons?
And the same Christians giving him such Adoration are probably the same ones sniffing out DEMONS! in the D&D books on my shelf, the fantasy pics on my wall, and that sweater from Goodwill. (I have a SIL who’s very into Spiritual Warfare and has been following some Spiritual Warfare guru since said guru prophesied about Obama back in 2008.)
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From above
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It’s really no surprise at all that DFW is ground zero for church scandal right now. It’s basically a theme park of churches.
Several years back, I tuned up a couple that was moving from Nashville to plant a church in Dallas. Gave them the welcome to Texas spiel, told them Dallas was in dire need of more churches, etc. They figured it out when I told them they were just using the plant as an excuse to move to a nicer city to fleece more rich people.
Plant a church in Dallas… that’s about as useful as a Frigidaire dealer on Svalbard island.
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Doesn’t sound like the sort of folks who would be interested in planting a church in Dallas, South Dakota (population 100).
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N,
I mean, it sounds like Morris wasn’t exactly forthcoming. I would actually be surprised if he was very open in his counseling about this experience and wasn’t just lying . It would also be completely unethical for Cloud to discuss anything publicly things that were shared with him in counseling. I don’t think we would know that much about how Cloud thinks about Morris now.
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Jesus was obviously wealthy, because he had his own embezzler.
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The last money to flow through Judas’ hands were 30 pieces of silver (around $400 in today’s dollars) … the amount he took to betray Jesus. There are counterfeit “pastors” in the pulpit today who are taking millions to do the same.
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Observant Outsider,
I think you’re correct. I work in healthcare (although not mental health specifically) and the principle of confidentiality has very few exceptions. Suppose a mental health provider diagnosed a pastor with NPD, for example, and personally believed that person should not be a member of the clergy because of their personality disorder. They cannot say that publicly without the patient’s consent (which of course the patient has little incentive to give). They could only work with the patient and help them to that insight themselves. A breakthrough like that is rare with personality disorders, sadly. Unless the clinician has specific reason to believe that the patient is a danger to themself or others, they would jeopardize their license by divulging anything.
To me this raises the question of why a mental health professional would continue to work with someone in this scenario. The likelihood of them doing any good seems slim, while their involvement may perpetuate harm if an abusive pastor uses them as a smokescreen.
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Satin,
I look forward to your comments every single time.
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Here is an interesting thing about Josiah Anthony I haven’t seen mentioned anywhere.
He was a member of gateway church, though he was never a pastor there. He grew up under Morris’ teachings
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The stars at night are big and bright
clap
clap
clap
clap
Deep in the heart of Texas
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Muff Potter,
They really are (stars at night).
Fort Sam Houston (San Antonio) is where they taught me to be a medic back during the wind-down of Vietnam.
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Half-truth and mistruth are not truth. If you distort the facts once, you most likely are guilty of twisting other things.
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So glad to hear their is a group of people stepping in to help Shamika!
BigTex: that is interesting that he sat under Morris’ teaching. I have had so many people trying to convince me to become a member of a church. I attend but will not do that again. Fool me once…….
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Makes me think of James MacDonald trying to ‘plant’ a church on San Diego’s Coronado Isle.
Lotsa’ rich folks, mighty rich diggins.
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Unfortunately, being a member of a “church” is often not the same as being a member of the Body of Christ. A lot of folks go to “church” who are not ‘the’ Church. It would do Christendom well to hit the pause button and revisit what is and isn’t Church.
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Also, many “churches” refuse to help you unless you’re a “member”. Being a fellow human being and a member of the Body of Christ isn’t enough. They like to call this “wise financial stewardship”, but it’s really another name for “if you don’t pledge loyalty to us and tithe here, we won’t help you.”
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Sure. But Jesus said to give to everyone who asks of you, and the Cloud/Townsend books say differently.
And 1 Cor 5 says people aren’t truly Christians and don’t really know Christ, but instead are so-called brethren, if they are practicing greed unrepentantly.
So I’m wondering what Cloud knew, and if this whole situation might prod him to not be so overconfident in general.
And I just thought Dee might find it interesting, that Morris was also getting care from a licensed therapist. It’s my understanding that it was at the insistence of the elder board, that Morris finally caved and tried talking with Cloud… it’s my understanding it was not at his initiation.
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Hannibal Lecter would have a field day with those guys.
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Such “churches” are not the Body of Christ.
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“And none could be helped unless they had The Mark.”
Convenient how the Slick Deceiver archetype of Antichrist has been forgotten, Eh, My Dear Wormwood?
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Why do you think GCB was set in Dallas?
Seven-day CHRISTIAN Sex Challenges and all?
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“You cross sky and land to make one disciple, and when you do you make him twice the child of Hell as yourself!”
— some Rabbi from Nazareth
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And the pinnacle of that is Kenneth Copeland.
Near-BILLIONAIRE with THREE private jets.
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One thing to understand is that “affliction” =/= “infestation”.
Those branches of Christianity which believe that demons are real, do NOT believe a Christian can be “infested” (possessed), only non-Christians (and even then, the likelihood that someone who says they are or were possessed was really so, is small). But they do teach that Christians can be afflicted (harassed, etc.), which is what Morris was claiming.
One thing you need to understand about Morris, was that unlike most pastors (who claim to have been saved as a child and called to preach as a teenager and claim to have lived a mostly Godly life), he would be open about his drug use and sexual sins (but only to a point, of course he didn’t tell the truth about Cindy) as a means of attracting people who don’t feel a connection with pastors that generally lived clean lives, but would be attracted to someone who was as bad as they were.