As the father of four daughters and a former SBC pastor and one of my daughters presented us with a beautiful granddaughter born without benefit of marriage, I cannot fathom how this father can throw his daughter under the bus. Is his ego that large? Is his heart that small? His statement is so self serving.

In these days of everyone becoming so “righteous”, grace is no longer amazing; it is in short supply.

And my heart hurts for this young woman as I type this through tears . . .

I’m really thankful for this post Dee. I pray she reads it and knows that many of us are praying for her and hurting for her pain but rejoicing in this beautiful life that she will cherish. This baby now has a huge fan club, and so does she. I think maybe this is when God works all things for good, even if the platform harmed her and will leave lasting scars, maybe the beauty of all of us fighting for her and pushing back will also help her heal ❤️

Breaks my heart

Dee:
Your comment, “She will remember this shaming for years.” The comment about “stiff consequences” is chilling. I pray her ego has not been crushed by her father but that she may be overwhelmed by the grace of the Father.

Jeffrey Chalmers,
Yeah, he also praised the young man who impregnated his daughter. His ‘poor me’ rant and praise for the other party is sort of a “well, duh!” to me.
Men are the only ones that really matter in the SBC.
(I am a former SBCer.)

This un-named “pastor” sounds like an evil self-centered narcissist.

I wonder how many “bestselling” books he has published, how many pompous articles he has written for all the hip fashionable Evangelical Inc websites, and how often he jets off to foreign countries to give paid speeches about how great he is.

This scumbag DOESN’T DESERVE the blessing of having children or grandchildren.

He also sounds like a power-hungry tinpot dictator who treats his family as if they are his property.

This un-named pastor sounds like the TOTAL AND COMPETE OPPOSITE of Jesus Christ.

This pastor sounds like a hypocrite and a pharisaical charlatan.

I remember a quote from the TV show “Person of Interest” where Jim Caviezel says that he hates “people who act nice until they get home” when they let their mask slip.

This un-named pastor sounds like one of those narcissists who are “nice until they get home.”

I wonder what dark skeletons this un-named pastor has in his closet.

Thanks for sharing this sad story. I will pray for them all.

One thing us fundamentalists sometimes miss is that there is a doctrine of total depravity that applies equally to us, not just those who’s sin becomes obvious or those “outside the camp.” No one wants to talk about a man’s lust, his pornography issues, or how many young women he may have been with, etc. But the poor girl who winds up pregnant gets slammed, and from the pulpit by her father? That’s unacceptable.

The words of that old hymn, “I Need Thee Every Hour,” come to mind. In more modern English, it means we all need Jesus every half-millisecond. This pastor’s daugher sinned. Then this pastor sinned. Is that really such a surprise? Not really, it’s just people being people by our nature. Not excusing any guilty party. May the Lord have mercy on us all thru His Son, the Lord Jesus. And may we all find the humility to say, “I sin too. Let’s seek Him together.”

His daughter did NOT shame him, he shamed himself. He’s made sure that now everyone knows what a j**k he is.

As for his daughter, I hope she doesn’t feel shame. Whether planned or unplanned, it’s a new life with all that entails. As has been mentioned, the beginning of “an unexpected journey”. The young woman and her baby deserve all the support they can get.

*semi-incredulous googling* oh… yeah this is a thing.

So many self-justifying words. So much image management. So much me, me, me from a person who is not, whatever he believes, the focus of the situation.

I wonder if any of the wise counsel he refers to wisely suggested that he keep his trap shut and focus on what his daughter needs. I doubt it. He goes on about “listening” but it doesn’t sound like he spent much time listening to his daughter.

I truly hope this young mama is surrounded by people who will support and cherish her and her baby. Who will put *her* needs first and walk with her through the changes and challenges ahead. I hope she knows that she is loved and worthy no matter what. I have a lot more questions and thoughts about this situation, but really that’s what matters. *She* matters. Not her dad’s reputation or his “ministry”.

“She will remember this shaming for years.”

I dare say that every female believer who sits under New Calvinism for very long will be shamed one way or another. Shamed into submission, shamed into silence, shamed by discipline. While the dudebros get high-fives from “pastor” on Sunday mornings, wife and family follow their man into church and sit quietly. In a typical NeoCal church, you can see the oppression on their countenance. As Matt Chandler once said “I preach to men.”

This preacher (I refuse to use the term ‘Pastor’ because men like this are not shepherds) focuses on the sin and shame and pain of his daughters sin. He enacted strict consequences and sees this a terrible trial (for himself, of course).

Meanwhile, back in bible times, Jesus confronted a woman caught in adultery and on the verge of being murdered for her sin. His response? “go and sin no more” (John 8:1-11)

That is precisely why I still follow Jesus and avoid SBC/NeoCal/9Marx like the plague that they are.

Nancy2(aka Kevlar): Men are the only ones that really matter in the SBC.

As if I needed another reason to despise the SBC.

(I’m a man by the way).

I posted this on last thread before seeing this one:

I can see, Maybe, putting the knowledge of her pregnancy out in the open to stop the backhanded gossip that will go on when people find out? (though agree there must be many better ways to do so!) Granted, I did NOT hear his sermon for the whole story or to get the ‘vibes’ coming from him to judge intent.

Many years ago, I got a letter from a cousin that I had not been in contact with for years, telling us their teenaged daughter was pregnant and would be placing the baby for adoption. I was puzzled, but see it now as an attempt to be open about the situation rather than shameful, which is a good thing in some ways. (unlike women in the ’50’s being shipped to Unwed Mothers’ home or ‘Aunt’s’ house to give birth in shame and secret, then having the baby taken from them no matter what they wanted).

I read the sermon (not listened to it, which may be a big difference.)

It wasn’t all that different than what our then pastor in a Nazarene church did years ago in the same situation. About the only difference is that he offered his resignation immediately as he felt he was not Biblically qualified to preach. We felt his offer showed he actually was qualified. Long story short, he met the issue head on, accepted his part of the responsibility, held his kid accountable, met with the boy and held him accountable too as the boy said he was a Christian. Over time the kids married and went on with life.

It actually built our church more for the pastor’s family to be open and honest that they were not any more perfect than the rest of us. It gave the church the ability to come together to figure out how best to support them instead of gossiping about them.

I know of a similar thing in North Carolina where the women (in her 20s) on her own accord stood before her church, confessed her sin and told them she disappointed and shamed herself and her Lord. It went public on Youtube. Her family and church rallied in support also.

Sometimes our own actions truly are less than admirable, and have consequences. Owning up to them instead of hiding them or trying to relabel sin as not sin does seem to be the way to go. That honestly allows you to move forward in a healthy manner.

Commenter23: John MacArthur and Ed Young Jr can burn me at the stake now LOL.

They would if they could.
I’m glad that the founders of our nation took steps to ensure that those kinds of men will never accrue the power they so covet.

Sandy Williams:
I honestly do not know if what the Pastor/Father said and did is harmful to the daughter.And, I honestly do not know if this blog and the comments are harmful to the daughter.Who among us really has the wisdom to know how to respond in a situation like this?

Speaking as a father of teenage daughters, what he said was absolutely devastating to his daughter. There was no compassion, no comfort, no grace, and no forgiveness, only shame and condemnation… and not only that, he did this in public and from the pulpit (so his words have even more weight because he is a pastor and ostensibly speaking for God.)

I don’t claim any special wisdom… but I did send this to my daughters earlier today as we were discussing this event: “This is what I would say to my pregnant and unwed teenage daughter: OMG, this is wonderful and amazing news! you are going to be an amazing mom and I will be by your side every step of the way. I’m so excited for you (and a little scared, too) but I know you’re gonna be OK and the baby will be OK. I love you and I can’t wait to meet this little one!”

S,

“there is a doctrine of total depravity that applies equally to us, not just those who’s sin becomes obvious or those “outside the camp…

“I Need Thee Every Hour,” come to mind. In more modern English, it means we all need Jesus every half-millisecond.”
+++++++++++

i appreciated your comment. and fully agree that it is unacceptable that she was slammed/shamed from the pulpit by her father. (i have much stronger words in mind)

a few thoughts:

1. does the doctrine of total depravity applying equally mean all sins carry equal weight?

2. i prefer to go high on ‘made in God’s image’, ‘fearfully and wonderfully made’, ‘crowned with glory and honor’, and other similar things.

3. sure, who doesn’t need the creator of the universe & the one who went the distance, facing the ultimate opponent and won.

but i think we can relax more in being who we are, in confidence. i think we can think more highly of ourselves. find a way to make Father/Son/Holy Spirit our business partner in life, and go forward in self-confidence and decision-making.

i truly don’t think this is complicated.

Sandy Williams,

“Who among us really has the wisdom to know how to respond in a situation like this?”
+++++++++++++++

anyone with as much common sense as my agnostic and atheist friends and family.

Sandy Williams,

How about with love, hugs and a sincere how can I help?

Sandy Williams,

Would you, or do you believe that any of us would, react to our child’s indiscretion/sin through advertising an open, intentional public shaming of our child; publicly condemning; and, a woe-is-me self-centered diatribe.
Would we intentionally publicly denigrate and sacrifice our child to salvage our reputations?……. the way this “Christian” father/pastor did????

The girl got pregnant out of wedlock….. It’s not like she planted a bunch of pipe bombs in an elementary school.

This self-serving, self-righteous egomaniac needs to get off his high horse, face reality, get his act together and at least assist in making plans for the near futures of his daughter and soon-to-be grandchild.

Troy,

“Also, for those of you blaming the apostle Paul, Galatians 6:1 and I Thessalonians 5:14 make it clear that Paul would not approve of what this pastor did this past Sunday.”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++

nah, i blame people who err on the side of favoring males, discrimination against women, misogyny, double standards that favor males,…

this is the short list

we all err in one way or another in choosing how to interpret scripture. something is always left out in favor of something else.

the interpretive choices a person makes betray a person’s values & priorities.

it’s easy to see who they favor and who they decide is worth little enough as to marginalize.

this is simply what ‘biblical’ means.

Rapid Roy: I don’t claim any special wisdom…

When the Lamb of God really inhabits your heart, you don’t need any ‘special wizdum’.

elastigirl: Troy,

“Also, for those of you blaming the apostle Paul, Galatians 6:1 and I Thessalonians 5:14 make it clear that Paul would not approve of what this pastor did this past Sunday.”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++

nah, i blame people who err on the side of favoring males, discrimination against women, misogyny, double standards that favor males,…

= New Calvinism (and assorted other dudebro aberrations of faith)

Many NeoCals believe that females are mere derivatives of men; thus, it’s OK to subordinate them into submission and silence since they were not created in the direct image of God:

“Man is the image of God directly, woman is the image of God only through the man … Because man was created by God in His image first, man alone was created in a direct and unmediated fashion as the image of God, manifesting then the glory of God in man, that is male man … If male headship is rooted in the image of God itself, then it isn’t just a functional distinction of how we work out. It really does mean we are made in a different way.

It may be best to understand the original creation of male and female as one in which the male was made in the image of God in a direct, unmediated and unilateral fashion, while the female was made image of God through the man and hence in a indirect, mediated and derivative fashion.” – Bruce Ware

Max,

preposterous.

where scripture is concerned, i’ll err on the side of not jeopardizing the dignity, worth, and welfare of my neighbor.

i’m sort of shocked how so few of my fellows seem to see it this way. but maybe there are more out there, i dunno

elastigirl: where scripture is concerned, i’ll err on the side of not jeopardizing the dignity, worth, and welfare of my neighbor

When enough women ensnared by New Calvinism get sick and tired of “Shut up, sit down, submit!” … when they rise up en masse and shout “Enough is enough!” … when the brakes are slammed down hard on being spiritually mistreated … when they start dragging their sorry husbands and their tithes out of the mess … then, and only then, will we see the beginning of the end of such authoritarian nonsense! I long to see the day when New Calvinism’s funeral is preached, when the dudebros fade into obscurity, and Jesus is returned to the throne.

Max,

Hear! hear!

Muff Potter: I do too, and with heavy reliance on the F-bomb.

To me, cusswords are primarily words that express Strong Emotions.
And this whole debacle supercharges Strong Emotion.

Commenter23: Ed Young Jr

You mean Grinning Ed Young of Seven Day CHRISTIAN Sex Challenge fame?
Delivered from a bed onstage the same Sunday every Liturgical church (including mine) celebrated the Feast of Christ the King?

Afterburne: Who would want to be “managed” like that?

I have visited New Calvinist churches in my area (to see what makes them tick). The oppression can clearly be seen on the countenance of young families. The dudebros ought to be ashamed of themselves treating their wives as lesser citizens of the Kingdom … there is to be no distinction in race, class and gender in the Body of Christ.

elastigirl,

to be clear, i’ve been plenty stupid.

christian culture turned me into a newt.

i got better.

elastigirl: this is simply what ‘biblical’ means.

Megalomania is their mantra, and cruelty their creed.

elastigirl: i got better.

They may try to burn you, anyway.

From bibleref.com.

Interesting how the respect / dignity / reverence bit got dropped from ESV. So I guess that means what he did was OK?

1 Timothy 3:4

ESV – He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive,

NIV – He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full respect.

NASB – He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity

CSB – He must manage his own household competently and have his children under control with all dignity.

NLT – He must manage his own family well, having children who respect and obey him.

KJV – One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;

NKJV – one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence

If/when “Pastor” comes to the knowledge of Truth, rather than theology, he will regret this.

Welp, so much for bein’ pro life.

My atheist brother dealt with his daughters better than this “pastor.” I do not admire him for his unbelief, but his attitude and the grace he showed his 2 daughters who got pregnant put this man to shame

Muff Potter: the tribal belief that a baby can have no legitimacy from a woman alone

What tribe? Isn’t the concept of legitimate versus illegitimate birth more feudal than tribal, at least in a western context? I’m no anthropologist but I’ve learned about several indigenous North American cultures in which people’s primary clan/family affiliation is inherited from their mother, and secondarily, if at all, from their father (eg the Navajo Nation).

I suspect the stigma against children born to unmarried women comes from the stigma against their mothers, not the other way around. If you listen to the rhetoric of those in Pastor Jepthah’s camp, it’s the women they have a problem with.

Muff Potter: When I used the word ‘tribal’, it had no native american reference at all.
It was simply employed in a general human sense of belonging to some social group.

I’ve heard the New Calvinists referred to as a “tribe” … they are certainly a unique religious entity.

I haven’t read anything about this but by the fourth bullet point I knew who it was. In many ways I am not surprised, and yet, considering the good people that I know he knows/knew, not within ACBC, and one who was, I am shocked at what he has done.

Ker: I am shocked at what he has done

I suppose he thought he had to practice what he preached, regardless of who the target of discipline was. If/when he finally comes to his senses about the rotten theology behind this, he will regret using his daughter as an example.

Max,

It is so sad that he didn’t cover his daughter with love and keep it in his – and her – family and their church family. The whole wide world does not have to know.

EW66: I will never forget the shame and tears of the young girl that stood on a stage apologizing for her sin, twice. There were two services. I’m certain she’s never forgotten it either.

And there wasn’t one man with balls enough to stand up and defend said young girl?

Micah: It’s only the worst thing for women and children. Men seem to acquire new buddies.

The girl or woman begins a whole new life as a mother with child. She has, no matter her age or circumstances, the responsibility of the life of a whole new other human being made in the image of God.

The boy or man moves on to continue his playboy lifestyle, and keep sowing his seed as he chooses.

These two outcomes, no matter the circumstances of what brought the couple together, are radically completely different.

Pastors and church leaders are generally guys. Do any of them accurately and properly address this? In centuries of sermons and tomes of theology, does this happen? Apparently, men don’t get it.

This is not simply purity vs promiscuity. This is:

1. The spirituality of two lives, two flesh, become one. What does that do? What does it mean? Nothing shallow or simple-minded about this.
2. The reality of a man or boy and a woman or girl joining together to create a new human being made in the image of God.

There is nothing shallow or simple-minded or lighthearted about this either, no matter what one’s beliefs about having sex are. Creating a human being is a big, big deal. Enormous reality.

Yes, there is potential for great blessing, but the mother’s responsibility is enormous from the get-go. God help her.

Guys have the mic. Do they even know what they are talking about?

Ava Aaronson: Pastors and church leaders are generally guys. Do any of them accurately and properly address this? In centuries of sermons and tomes of theology, does this happen? Apparently, men don’t get it.

Exactly. Mothers bear a huge responsibility, and pastors and church leaders tend to heap more burdens on them when they are not married.

EW66: I will never forget the shame and tears of the young girl that stood on a stage apologizing for her sin, twice. There were two services.

Enlightened Self-Criticism before The People and Party Commissars, just like in the old USSR.

Max: Gus: That is intellectual malpractice!

Most intellectuals I have known are not very smart.

“You don’t need any intellect to be an Intellectual.”
— G.K.Chesterton, one of the Father Brown Mysteries

Though I would add “Just an Attitude” to the quote.

Max: When enough women ensnared by New Calvinism get sick and tired of “Shut up, sit down, submit!” … when they rise up en masse and shout “Enough is enough!”

“Oppression breeds Resistance”
— Kalon Primary(?), The Orville

BREAKING NEWS on another front covered by TWW:

Pastor James Morris, son of Robert Morris, no longer with Gateway Church

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZY5V00J_-8

Barnabus:
Hmmm.
It would appear to me, that by his own reasoning. This pastor has disqualified himself for the position and title he holds. We should demand nothing but his immediate resignation as he seeks to subjugate his household and bring the family to heal. Only then can he be considered to meet the standards he so cringeworthily endorses. Or we can pray that he comes to know Jesus as Lord within his heart.He may come then to know what true grace, love and mercy are. But he will most likely, sadly stick to his litmus test theology where heart/faith doesn’t matter. Only his divine intelectual prowess which far surpases us lowly depraved not in their country club Christians.

That is correct. He is no longer Biblically qualified to be a pastor as he cannot manage his household well. Maybe somebody should point this out to him.

EW66: Christians are some of the meanest, nastiest people I’ve ever met.

Yes they are.
And they are also some of the finest people I’ve ever met.

Muff Potter: I’ve often said here and elsewhere, that fundagelicalism will strip you (generic you) of your humanity if you let it.

Like the “Pneumatic Gnostics” of old, whose goal was to become so Ultra-SPIRITUAL that they would cease to be human. Nothing physical left, entirely Pure SPIRIT.