March 27, 2024 Episode of “Life Today” Host James Robison Speaks With Guests Robert and James Morris, Reveals Gateway Church Leadership to Remain in the Family

“God’s purpose is not to build up spectacular ministries, or display brilliant minds, or articulate tongues or pleasing, arresting personalities. God’s purpose is to make us, you and me like His Son. It is the only outcome that brings glory to the Father.”  -Diane Langberg, PhD


“I usually lump organized religion, organized labor, and organized crime together. The Mafia gets points for having the best restaurants.” -Dave Beard


 

James Robison, Robert Morris, and James Robert Morris

The clips below were taken from this video. I have been advised that Daystar is purging all their Robert Morris videos, so the link may not work after I publish this article.

The video below is from an episode of “Life Today,” hosted by James and Betty Robison. I found the video revealing by what wasn’t said, only hinted at by Robinson. One such example is when he said Robert Morris “was unlikely for many reasons” to become a star preacher.  Could one of those reasons be Robert Morris’ sexual abuse of Cindy Clemishire which began when she was 12 years old and continued for over 4 years? It would be hard to believe James Robison was ignorant of this fact.

Another example is when Robison, in reference to James Morris being named as the successor to his father, Robert, stated “which I didn’t really see all this coming.” This is understandable – James had been mentored to go into business and apparently he was successfully managing his own company, he had never been a preacher. On the other hand, it was a natural next step for James.  Let’s face it, Gateway Church is a huge business, taking in millions of tithers dollars per year.

This next clip comes from the end of the program. The episode lasts about 30 minutes, the first 20 consisted of James Robison questioning Robert and James Morris.  The last 10 minutes of the show consisted of a strong effort to raise funds for rescuing young girls from being sex-trafficked in unnamed southeastern Asian countries. Both Betty and James Robison speak with passion about young girls being forced into the sex trade where men abuse them to gratify their sexual desires.

I wonder if Robert Morris felt a tinge of conviction as he sat listening to this ten-minute fundraising effort?


As James Robison was emotionally questioning how a man could do such horrible things to young girls my mind drifted to Ravi Zacharias. Surely you remember Ravi, the greatest apologist of the 20th century, as then Vice President Pence said at his funeral service. You will have to pardon my skepticism whenever I hear a preacher talking of the evil things other men are doing in southeast Asia, not that I doubt what men are doing there, but I wonder how many U.S. pastors are suffering from burnout and are over in Thailand for some “bad fun.”

In addition to finding alone time when he traveled with others, Mr. Zacharias traveled alone to Bangkok and other parts of Southeast Asia for substantial periods. RZIM staff described these as writing trips where he would work on his latest book. On such trips, he would stay for days and sometimes weeks alone. According to a text message to a Thai masseuse in February 2016, he spent his days writing and his nights receiving massage treatments. All of the massage therapists we interviewed now live in the United States, and we have little insight into whether Mr. Zacharias engaged in inappropriate massage behavior when in Asia.

We also learned that for several years, Mr. Zacharias owned two apartments in Bangkok. Property records confirm that he bought one of the apartments in 2010 and the other in 2011, both in a residential tower in the Khlong San District of Bangkok. He sold them both in 2015. The Notes application of his phone contains addresses that correspond with the property records, along with information about the common area and maintenance fees for the two units. The Notes application also reveals that between 2010 and 2014 he spent a total of 256 days in one of these apartments and sought rent reimbursement from RZIM for those stays. The other apartment, in the same building but on a different floor, housed one of his massage therapists. An entry on Mr. Zacharias’s phone for the lower floor unit includes this massage therapist’s initials.
Source: Report of Independent Investigation into Sexual Misconduct of Ravi Zacharias February 9, 2021 



Comments

March 27, 2024 Episode of “Life Today” Host James Robison Speaks With Guests Robert and James Morris, Reveals Gateway Church Leadership to Remain in the Family — 131 Comments

  1. “One such example is when he said Robert Morris “was unlikely for many reasons” to become a star preacher.”

    So what if Mr. Morris had some hanky panky in his past, he sure can preach!

    Anyone … anyone! … can be a “star preacher” in the American church if they have a touch of charisma, a gift of gab, and a bag of gimmicks. A call of God is not necessary … no need for holy anointing on your ministry when you can pull it off in the flesh?! Toss in some great music, laser lights, fog machines, and other audio-visual entertainment and you will have 100,000 knocking down your doors!

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  2. Max:
    “One such example is when he said Robert Morris “was unlikely for many reasons” to become a star preacher.”

    So what if Mr. Morris had some hanky panky in his past, he sure can preach!

    Anyone … anyone! … can be a “star preacher” in the American church if they have a touch of charisma, a gift of gab, and a bag of gimmicks.A call of God is not necessary … no need for holy anointing on your ministry when you can pull it off in the flesh?! Toss in some great music, laser lights, fog machines, and other audio-visual entertainment and you will have 100,000 knocking down your doors!

    You forgot the fog machines and coffee shop.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  3. Max:
    “One such example is when he said Robert Morris “was unlikely for many reasons” to become a star preacher.”

    So what if Mr. Morris had some hanky panky in his past, he sure can preach!

    Anyone … anyone! … can be a “star preacher” in the American church if they have a touch of charisma, a gift of gab, and a bag of gimmicks.A call of God is not necessary … no need for holy anointing on your ministry when you can pull it off in the flesh?! Toss in some great music, laser lights, fog machines, and other audio-visual entertainment and you will have 100,000 knocking down your doors!

    I stand corrected, you did mention the fog machine.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  4. Max:
    “One such example is when he said Robert Morris “was unlikely for many reasons” to become a star preacher.”

    So what if Mr. Morris had some hanky panky in his past, he sure can preach!

    Anyone … anyone! … can be a “star preacher” in the American church if they have a touch of charisma, a gift of gab, and a bag of gimmicks.A call of God is not necessary … no need for holy anointing on your ministry when you can pull it off in the flesh?! Toss in some great music, laser lights, fog machines, and other audio-visual entertainment and you will have 100,000 knocking down your doors!

    You forgot the coffee shop and climbing wall.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  5. What is a “star” preacher? The guy who brings in the most money? What if God called him to be a quiet country preacher for 60 people? Not good enough? And yes, is Mr. Robison star preacher himself (insert eye roll) smart enough to get the connection between kids being abused in other countries, girls being used and abused, and what Bobby Morris did to a 12 year old for FOUR years?! That all abuse is bad?

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  6. My Mama and I are current member’s of Gateway Frisco and served with the Students up until May when we were asked to step down. Outside of church, we train and educate parents and children in our community to keep them safe from predators. In February 2023, the wife of a Frisco campus leader called us to say that her husband had just molested their granddaughter during a family visit in Indiana, and then learned he was molesting in total four granddaughters over many years!!

    Long story short, we immediately reached out to Pastor Adana and was advised to notify the authorities. We reported this to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, and a detective called within an hour to begin investigating the allegations. He was arrested two months later, 4/26/23, with two felony charges involving three minor girls, ages 8-12.

    Leadership told Scott he could not attend church or the small groups he founded, but never told any of the families and leaders who served under him about the abuse claims. We gave Gateway six weeks to notify all those with young children who were under his leadership, but nothing was ever done. If we hadn’t shared the allegations with the families in our small group, no one at Gateway would be aware of anything.

    Several other families who are in leadership positions, and are very close with Scott, claim that we made this all up, and Satan is using us to go after him because of his “anointing”. It has now been 18 months, and those same families, who have kids in Students, continued to attack us, telling the students we are bad people, not to be trusted, and not fit to be serving. Just last year that same Dad leading the attacks was made a deacon/elder at Gateway, and last month we were asked to stop serving at the church.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  7. Nicole Ishee:
    My Mama and I are current member’s of Gateway Frisco and served with the Students up until May when we were asked to step down. Outside of church, we train and educate parents and children in our community to keep them safe from predators. In February 2023, the wife of a Frisco campus leader called us to say that her husband had just molested their granddaughter during a family visit in Indiana, and then learned he was molesting in total four granddaughters over many years!!

    Long story short, we immediately reached out to Pastor Adana and was advised to notify the authorities. We reported this to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, and a detective called within an hour to begin investigating the allegations. He was arrestedtwo months later, 4/26/23, with two felony charges involving three minor girls, ages 8-12.

    Leadership told Scott he could not attend church or the small groups he founded, but never told any of the families and leaders who served under him about the abuse claims. We gave Gateway six weeks to notify all those with young children who were under his leadership, but nothing was ever done. If we hadn’t shared the allegations with the families in our small group, no one at Gateway would be aware of anything.

    Several other families who are in leadership positions, and are very close with Scott, claim that we made this all up, and Satan is using us to go after him because of his “anointing”. It has now been 18 months, and those same families, who have kids in Students, continued to attack us, telling the students we are bad people, not to be trusted, and not fit to be serving. Just last year that same Dad leading the attacks was made a deacon/elder at Gateway, and last month we were asked to stop serving at the church.

    Wow. Just wow. First, well done, Nicole (and mama), for your ministry! Second, your story makes me sick but also gives me hope. People like you will help our world and the institutional church change. Courage, as you have displayed, kills evil. Blessings to you and your mama, and I don’t think this is the last we’ll hear of your story.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  8. Max: hanky panky

    Crimes of an adult male clergy assaulting (violating) a 12year old girl is never “hanky panky*.” It’s criminal. Not cute. Not playful. Not messing around. Criminal.

    The man is power, from his chosen “god”, who is actually the devil. No, this godman is NOT a victim. He chooses the violence of the devil to fulfill his evil fantasy that he has fed over time. His choice all the way.

    The girl is absolutely terrified. Horrified. Silenced in fear as she is being violated. Numb. Mute. Powerless, she disassociates herself out of the horror until the man leaves. But now she has issues of disassociation because how can a girl live with her body after it has been violently trashed by a monster. The ick of the slovenly thug pastor monster all over her once innocent body. Can’t go back. What was done is done. Cannot unsee, unfeel, unsmell, unhear, untaste what the monster did. That experience of terror and yuck never goes away. She is forever a witness to the thug character of this so-called pastor, the Jekyll and Hyde guy. She knows the duplicity, the lie of who he pretends to be.

    Reference: See the novel “Legal Grounds” by Ava Aaronson on Amazon.

    *Hanky-panky is used to refer to sexual activity between two consenting people, especially when this is regarded as funny or not serious. [humorous, informal] Does this mean no hanky-panky after lights out? Synonyms: sex [informal], sexual activity, lovemaking, nookie [slang].

    The clergy TERRORIZED the girl. Power and terror, which is not love making.

    Then the thug pastor threatens her to not tell. Power. He does his evil fantasy then controls the narrative like all bullies do. To this day with his NDAs.

    To this day, the thug lies and blames her (“Jezebel”, “flirtatious”, “she insisted on keeping it going” “young lady”, etc.).

    The thug pastor also lies about and blames her dad: “I was seeking girls who needed a man to hold them because their dad didn’t hold them enough.” That’s what the thug pastor says about the dads of the girls, minors, he violates. It’s their Dad’s fault.

    Dads, how do you feel about this thug preacher saying it is YOUR fault he violates your daughter? In the church community, no less, among the people of God?

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  9. James Robison “restored” – whatever that means – pedo RM in the 80s, RM restored the bad boy from Seattle. ARC are building a luxury lodge for “restoring” fallen preachers.

    Wow! The great chain of restorations – impressive! /s

    It seems “restorations” are the evangelical equivalent to apostolic succession in the RCC (which has its own problems, to be sure).

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  10. Max: It’s come to that.

    Nope. It was like this. For a long, long time. Not new. You just didn’t know it.

    If it didn’t happen to you (and you’re male while most victims are female and most predators are male – see Andrew Denney’s studies, UTC), OR it didn’t happen to your daughter or other family members, then you didn’t know what you now see. Or, you didn’t believe because they were neither you nor your relative. Or, you didn’t care but walked on by the plundered, as they were neither you nor your relative.

    This case has been around a loooong time, as some complain.

    Fact is, it has taken #MeToo for even the most egregious cases to go viral. And the church is several steps behind that.

    This is not new. It’s about time. Most, like Cindy, wait seemingly forever for anyone to listen.

    Wade, Rachel, Dee, TWW, the rest of us.

    There are many, many more Cindys. May God guide them to their “Wade, Rachel, Dee” connections.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  11. Ava Aaronson: It was like this. For a long, long time. Not new.

    I do think that something has changed. I think there have been significant changes in the norms of leadership culture over the last half- or three-quarters century. It seems to me that, across the board (as a trend; of course there are many individuals who have not gone along with this), leadership culture has become less public-spirited. Institutional mission has been subordinated to personal profit. This has happened in the churches, but also in other fields.

    It seems probable that there have always been predators in the churches (and elsewhere). But I think that the cultural changes may have made it easier for predators to thrive.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  12. Justin Peters spoke with a pastor who used to be on staff with Robert Morris. He fleshed out the timeline of events. He molested her for 4 1/2 years. He didn’t confess. Her dad found out and told Shady Grove Church’s elders to either do something about it or he would get the police involved. RM was then put on a 2 year “Restoration”. After 2 years he was brought BACK on staff. And ONE YEAR LATER he was made an Elder. So….. THREE YEARS after he stopped molesting a teenage girl he was made an Elder. That was the conclusion they came to. That made me angry and disgusted. But… it made me even sicker when they mentioned an associate pastor at Gateway who had been fired in 2017(?) for a sexual sin and I realized it was a former pastor of mine

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  13. Samuel Conner: Institutional mission has been subordinated to personal profit.

    Which was present in the first churches as now. Nothing like the Bible to bust the Good Ole Days Myth:

    Titus 1.10-11
    1 Peter 5.2
    1 Timothy 3.8
    1 Peter 5.2-3
    The entire book of Jude.

    “filthy lucre”* “sordid gain”*

    1. If we don’t study our Bibles for ourselves, we’re unaware of this in the Early Church to now, BECAUSE THE PASTORS DON’T PREACH ON PREACHER SORDID GAIN AND FILTHY LUCRE*, FILTHY FINGERS IN PARISHIONER POCKETS AND FINGER RAPING PARISHIONER PRETEEN DAUGHTERS AND WIVES. PREACHERS DON’T TELL ON THEMSELVES.

    2. If you’re not female, you are not aware of what filthy lucre religious leaders* do and have always done to females of all ages. #MeToo and the Internet connected the She Saids, which are everywhere, turns out. Women’s voices, suppressed for 2K years, and before … from the beginning of time …, are now viral via the Internet.

    Pastors today DON’T preach about PREACHER FILTHY LUCRE* but they do preach AGAINST WOMEN INTERNET BLOGGERS (who, BTW, publish the truth, under great scrutiny and with lawyers necessary to protect them).

    Women’s voices on the Internet have changed credible information available to all about our filthy lucre preachers*. Everyone is now RESPONSIBLE and ACCOUNTABLE for supporting FILTHY LUCRE PREACHERS*.

    Preachers may seek Hollywood film production with their million$. Turns out, one is now the star of his own viral film: FILTHY LUCRE PREACHER* FOUND OUT. Cannot unsee, unknow, undo. The viral ship has sailed into the seas of Internet history, and preacher dude is the viral megastar. Free access, however. No million$ being made so far on this livestream.

    *filthy lucre sordid gain preachers are 2,000+ yr old terms found in the Bible. Not every “Christian” reads their Bible. They own one, just don’t study it.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  14. Is anyone reading who attended a Gateway service last weekend? Maybe a midweek meeting? Because from their website and video, it appears to an outsider they had a big celebration followed by an encouraging sermon and altar call, and nothing out of the ordinary had happened involving the founder/leader. Did I miss something?

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  15. To those still trapped in man made religion, I want to recommend reading several books. You may not be Baptist, and some are decidedly baptistic, but read them anyway and use your discerner. Here goes the list:

    Sunday Morning Stickup by David Lee.
    Axioms of Religion by E. Y Mullins
    What Baptist Believe by Hershell Hobbs, not the current versions. The Hobbs version ONLY.
    Pagan Christianity by Viola and Barna
    Radically New by Wade Burleson
    Fraudulent Authority by Wade Burleson

    Learn just how free indeed you are in Christ. And then and only then will you be able to evaluate a church, a ministry, or a mission organization.

    And when the Body of Christ really understands how free they are in Christ, these bad boys will be given the left boot of fellowship, and find their paychecks missing.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  16. According to Life Outreach International, the statement concerning all of this states: “In the late 80s, Robert Morris joined James Robison Evangelistic Association (JREA) as the morning supervisor in the call center. His role included overseeing the daily administrative tasks of the call center. During his employment at JREA, Robert Morris’ duties did not include public speaking, nor was James Robison involved in professional counseling or formal restoration to ministry for Robert Morris. Before the recent media coverage, James Robison was not aware of the specific details surrounding Robert Morris’ departure from full-time vocational ministry at Shady Grove Church…” But according to this video, James Robison admits that he met Robert when Robert was 8, then 18 with Debbie and hired him at age 20 and he was like a son and Robert began traveling with James and speaking to high schools, etc… Hmm. At best, this statement is misleading. There is an interview online of a pastor from a church in Sherman, TX who was at Shady Grove Church when Robert was there. He states that James Robison brought Robert to Shady Grove Church for counseling for this ‘moral failure.’ So I think James Robison has some questions he needs to answer.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  17. Le Ellis: But according to this video, James Robison admits that he met Robert when Robert was 8, then 18 with Debbie and hired him at age 20 and he was like a son and Robert began traveling with James and speaking to high schools, etc… Hmm.

    And he named his son after James! Later in the video referring to Gateway leadership transition to his son, he mentions he had a “vision” that his son “James Robert” would have a ministry bigger than that of “James” and “Robert” combined. In Hamlet (Shakespeare), a palace guard officer says “Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.”

    Charismatics, beware of those vision things … they are often designed to control you. I believe God does give His servants dreams and visions … but not to a child molester.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  18. Dave A A: it appears to an outsider they had a big celebration followed by an encouraging sermon and altar call

    Oh, yes, while Pastor is (was?) on an extended European “sabbatical”, he lined up a tremendous slate of speakers to fill the pulpit … including Tony Evans and Albert Tate who are dealing with their own “inappropriate behavior.”

    Good Lord! What a circus!!

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  19. Dave A A:
    Is anyone reading who attended a Gateway service last weekend? Maybe a midweek meeting? Because from their website and video, it appears to an outsider they had a big celebration followed by an encouraging sermon and altar call, and nothing out of the ordinary had happened involving the founder/leader. Did I miss something?

    It is the standard MO of keeping up appearances to give the illusion to the pewsitters and the public that everything is alright.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  20. Dave A A: it appears to an outsider they had a big celebration followed by an encouraging sermon and altar call

    Considering the god-awful revelation about their pastor, did they have a solemn assembly at the altar, praying and weeping, repenting and agonizing … for God to send them a real-deal man of God next time around?

    We just don’t get it, folks.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  21. Max,

    And a pastor that likes to BS the pew peons…. The ba$$s it takes tell everyone a “young lady” is a 12 yr girl in her pajamas….and he was a “preacher” at the time…..
    So what else has he BS everyone about??? Including, as is now coming out, RM, and his wife, tried the blame a 12 yr old for HIS raping her???

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  22. And then there’s Pastor Arthur that I knew, pastor of a nearby rural church of about 50 members. He truly loved those people and they loved him. After working long hours on his farm as a bi-vocational pastor, he would visit the sick, pray with folks in nursing homes, take groceries using his money to members in need, he married them and buried them. He gave up every Saturday to go house to house in the poor area surrounding the church (a 2-room building with no running water, an outhouse in the back) … he invited them to church, asked if they needed anything, prayed with them. He saw many come to faith in Christ, baptizing them in a creek down the hill from the church, in his suit and a pair of silly plastic slippers to protect his polished church-going shoes from getting soaked. He preached the simple Gospel as outlined in Scripture, he had no desire to be mega, never wrote a book, died in obscurity but known in Heaven.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  23. Max,

    Absolutely! Lying only produces more reasons to lie. I also saw in the Peters interview of a pastor from Sherman, TX who worked with Robert Morris at Shady Grove, that Robert told him once that God wanted him to be famous to make God famous. What?! I think God is already famous and doesn’t need Robert’s help. The whole thing is sad and should make us all angry. I know it grieves the Holy Spirit and angers Jesus. Matthew 7 gives a warning about those who claim to prophesy and do miracles in God’s name but Jesus says one day he will say, “I never knew you.” Anyway, thanks for bringing Shakespeare into the topic. Shakespeare is still relevant! 🙂

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  24. Le Ellis: Robert told him once that God wanted him to be famous to make God famous. What?! I think God is already famous and doesn’t need Robert’s help

    Yes, VERY famous!

    I heard a young New Calvinist church planter in our area once say that he had come to our community to “make God big” … I told him that God was already big … he just looked at me.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  25. Nicole Ishee: My Mama and I are current member’s of Gateway Frisco and served with the Students up until May when we were asked to step down. Outside of church, we train …….,,

    ……… last year that same Dad leading the attacks was made a deacon/elder at Gateway, and last month we were asked to stop serving at the church

    That is horrible!!! I am so sorry!!! You must be a very special person for the wife to have confided in you.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  26. Oh how smooth is his tongue. All honey and butter. He can preach all right. He can present himself as a redeemed and restored sinner. The devil tempted me when I was weak and tired. But Jesus restored me. Or that is the story he presented with his protector and enabler.

    But the truth is he was not weak or tired. She was weak and vulnerable. She was 12 years old, asleep in her bed when you targeted her.

    How much did your enabler know, the one who smiled and welcomed you on his show? Was it a case of mutually covering for each other? Is the son the same? I hope not but I fear that he is a chip off the old block.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  27. He knew it was inappropriate and illegal behavior as an adult—why is Robert Morris not in jail. The Gateway Church should cut ties with the whole family of the Morris gang. The church is the people not the Shepard. The Shepard didn’t protect the flock and should be in jail. He should be sued by the church for all back pay and his 117 million . I know my God can heal but sometimes you have to take away what they love which is money. Have them on their back looking up then and only then you might see a repentant heart . As of now I see a criminal enterprise masquerading as a Church .Who knows how many other victims are there?

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  28. So, this is an interesting observation I noticed over the past week with the Robert Morris expose. In addition to Gateway more or less absorbing Shady Grove (the church Morris was based at when the assault of a young Cindy Clemishire took place), what’s now Gateway’s Frisco campus was originally a church planted by Blaine Bartel (Bartel; who in the 1980s and 1990s was based at Church on the Move in Tulsa, where he hosted the “Fire by Nite” videos and later led that church’s One-Eighty youth group, was secretly dealing with a pornography addiction that ultimately led to an illicit liaison, his removal as that church’s pastor and the collapse of his marriage).

    Based on that, it almost seems like Morris was looking for churches that had undergone similar turbulence to convert into Gateway campuses.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  29. Ariel,

    We got to know Arthur and his dear wife Minnie when our daughter played piano at their church. She was in college about 40 miles from their church and responded to a post for a piano-player … she played there about 3 years … just enough pay to cover round-trip gas for her car.

    A funny story: after a late start one Sunday, she rushed to get there and broke the speed limit – was ticketed by the highway patrol. Brother Arthur saw the offense posted in the local paper and paid her ticket, knowing that she was trying to get to church on-time. That’s a different sort of covering sin 🙂

    In all those years, Brother Arthur didn’t hit on our young beautiful daughter once. Minnie taught Sunday School for the kids in a little room off the sanctuary near a big pot-bellied wood stove. Arthur always preached Jesus. We loved those folks … they were special people … faithful to the end. Both are in Heaven now. There are a lot of churches in America, but not too many Arthurs and Minnies.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  30. Dave A A: Tens of thousands of supposedly charismatic pewsitters and not one with a prophetic bent got up and shouted some appropriate verses?

    Evidently not a Nathan in the bunch to shout “You’re the man!” … not in a dudebro sense, but with a convicting finger in the face to bring Mr. Morris to his knees. America doesn’t need more preacher-boys, we need more prophets!

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  31. Max: Yes, VERY famous!

    I heard a young New Calvinist church planter in our area once say that he had come to our community to “make God big” … I told him that God was already big … he just looked at me.

    To make his explode you could have pointed out according the Westminster Confession of Faith that God “God, in his ordinary providence, maketh use of means, yet is free to work without, above, and against them, at his pleasure”. And then point out to this pastor that he is a means by which the Gospel is presented. God is big enough that he doesn’t need people at all really.

    But I suspect this newbie Neo-Cal was one of those Chinese menu so-called “Calvinistic” Baptists. You know the ones that pick and show only certain bits from Reformed theology (usually only their sotierology). I am sure his eschatology (dispensationalism) and his view of the Lord’s Supper (Memorial View) is pretty much the same as most Evangelicals.

    I usually call those types posers and cosplayers. The old-school Continental Reformed types and Presbyterians I am sure feel the same way.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  32. Church girl,

    Hi!
    Church girl,

    The slander/attacks continued to spread among the students and his trial at the time was scheduled for July 5th. They thought it would be best to stop serving for at least six months and would pay for four counseling sessions.

    He was arrested and charged on 4/26 in Howard County, Indiana for two felony charges of child molesting under 14 years old. He was able to pay the $50,000 cash only bail and his court date moved to 10/4. He can not leave the state.

    Our main concern was the children in our group who had been around Scott for 18 months. We felt that it was the parent’s right to be informed of the investigation, and they could decide how to protect their children.

    Matthew 18:15-16 clearly outlines how to resolve conflict between members, and we said multiple times that we wanted to bring all involved together so it could be resolved.

    Here is the link to Scott’s court case in Indiana-https://public.courts.in.gov/mycase/#/vw/CaseSummary/eyJ2Ijp7IkNhc2VUb2tlbiI6ImduZ0xFV3VPRF9USjFzRTJrZGFGZTNNQTlNbDlnTmxMZUVOY0dYOWhHVlExIn19

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  33. If you look at recent photographs of RM, and compare with older ones, it becomes pretty obvious that he has had major cosmetic surgery in the not too distant past. Oh, and he is botoxed to the hilt!

    Poor Robert, spending so much money on looking good, and now coming out of this looking really bad. “Am I the bad guy?” – “A resounding ‘YES!’”

    All this good tithe money wasted for noting!

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  34. Gus: If you look at recent photographs of RM, and compare with older ones, it becomes pretty obvious that he has had major cosmetic surgery in the not too distant past. Oh, and he is botoxed to the hilt!

    Ken Copeland and Got Hard are not the only ones who single-handedly keep a hair-dye factory in operation. “I’M YOUNG! AND SEX-AY! SEE? SEE? SEE?”

    And we haven’t even touched on video filters like a Snapchat deepfake.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  35. R’as al Ghul: You know the ones that pick and show only certain bits from Reformed theology (usually only their sotierology).

    Criswell Predicts…
    Only the parts of Reformed Theology that are to their personal advantage and personal benefit.

    I am sure his eschatology (dispensationalism) and his view of the Lord’s Supper (Memorial View) is pretty much the same as most Evangelicals.

    i.e. Hal Lindsay Rapture Ready, Any Minute Now, It’s All Gonna Burn, Have Fun in Hell, HAW! HAW! HAW!

    More Calvinist-than-Calvin Predestination plus Hal Lindsay End Time Prophecy strikes me as one of the WORST possible combinations.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  36. Church girl:
    Will be interesting to see how many people stay at Gateway despite the scandal and cover up!!!
    When will the rest of the Morris clan be removed from leadership?

    I think most of them of them will head for the lifeboats, and not come back. As Max and others have said in the various threads, these megachurches are built on the leader, his charisma, and his cult of personality. When the leader topples, the church invariably implodes and either completely shuts down or becomes a tiny and hollow shell of its former self. The satellite churches either completely shut down or strike on their own far away from the crash site of the mothership.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  37. Le Ellis: Robert told him once that God wanted him to be famous to make God famous. What?

    At which point, all the rules of CELEBRITY come into play.
    Cue the do-it-yourself Reality Show.

    “I’M GONNA BE! I’M GONNA BE! I’M GONNA BE FAMOUS!!!”
    — Cartoon Network, Total Drama Island (Reality Show parody) opening theme

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  38. R’as al Ghul: I think most of them of them will head for the lifeboats, and not come back.As Max and others have said in the various threads, these megachurches are built on the leader, his charisma, and his cult of personality.When the leader topples, the church invariably implodes and either completely shuts down or becomes a tiny and hollow shell of its former self.The satellite churches either completely shut down or strike on their own far away from the crash site of the mothership.

    Think of the scene in “Independence Day” when the mothership in orbit gets infected with the virus that infects all the satellite ships on earth, followed by its destruction by the nuke. And comparing these cult of personality megachurches to a swarm of extraterrestrial locusts (with their dear leader as the queen of the hive) is a pretty good analogy as well. What happens when the queen of an ant hive or the Formics (HT: Ender’s Game) for that matter dies?

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  39. Editor’s note: I am interested in learning more about this. If you want, send me an email dee@thewartburgwatch.com

    Nicole Ishee:
    Church girl,

    Hi!
    Church girl,

    The slander/attacks continued to spread among the students and his trial at the time was scheduled for July 5th. They thought it would be best to stop serving for at least six months and would pay for four counseling sessions.

    He was arrested and charged on 4/26 in Howard County, Indiana for two felony charges of child molesting under 14 years old. He was able to pay the $50,000 cash only bail and his court date moved to 10/4. He can not leave the state.

    Our main concern was the children in our group who had been around Scott for 18 months. We felt that it was the parent’s right to be informed of the investigation, and they could decide how to protect their children.

    Matthew 18:15-16 clearly outlines how to resolve conflict between members, and we said multiple times that we wanted to bring all involved together so it could be resolved.

    Here is the link to Scott’s court case in Indiana-https://public.courts.in.gov/mycase/#/vw/CaseSummary/eyJ2Ijp7IkNhc2VUb2tlbiI6ImduZ0xFV3VPRF9USjFzRTJrZGFGZTNNQTlNbDlnTmxMZUVOY0dYOWhHVlExIn19

    Thank you, Nicole. Are you taking action from the lack of response from Gateway Frisco?

    Is there any action you desire from Gateway Frisco?

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  40. Gus: he has had major cosmetic surgery in the not too distant past. Oh, and he is botoxed to the hilt!

    “A gold ring in a pig’s snout is a beautiful face on an empty head.” Proverbs 11.22

    Lipstick on a thug. Beyond an empty head, this one has an evil heart. Felon.

    Botox and plastic surgery to disguise a monster parading as a pastor is the ultimate camouflage. Church as theatre, as a den of thieves, as wolves devouring sheep, as perfectly painted and decorated tombs of death.

    Doesn’t get any more wicked than a 20-something pastor digitally raping a 12year old for 5 years, then lying about it for 35 years as he amasses $117M in tithes from churchfolk in the name of God.

    Power, sex, and money are the trifecta, are the MO, of this criminal posing as a pastor.

    He can resign and run but he can’t hide. Those he violated are witnesses; they are the receipts for the Jekyll and Hyde church felon pastor.

    His rhetoric (lies) regarding his victims, their families, who he actually is, and what he actually did, demonstrates who the man really is, even to this day. A violent lying pedophile felony offender. Painting his prey as guilty while he is the innocent couldn’t-help-himself victim.

    He has never described his victim as a child, age 12 in Grade 6, innocent and clueless in her little girl jammies and robe and undergarments, as to the violence he inflicted on her in the darkness of night. He has never admitted to his felonies, his terrorizing of a child. After violating her body for 5 years, he violates her character for 35 years and counting, calling her flirtatious, a Jezebel, who desired a rape and seduced a poor unsuspecting innocent young pastor.

    He has never admitted to his deception and falsely accusing the victim’s dad of not holding his daughter enough so it is the dad’s fault that the victim was attacked, raped, and TERRORIZED. The rapist smears the Dad’s character to this day. Lies.

    He has never admitted to being a criminal felon offender pedophile masquerading as a pastor in the pulpit. His lies live on for 35 years and counting. The longer this goes on, the more prolific is the monster pedophile pastor with his lies. He’s dug in as a lying pedophile felon.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  41. R’as al Ghul: It is the standard MO of keeping up appearances to give the illusion to the pewsitters and the public that everything is alright.

    “WE DON’T NEED TO BATHE – WE HAVE PERFUME!”
    — Stevie Wonder & Charlene, “Used to Be”

    Check out the highlighted lyrics in the first verse; you will find them very relevant to The Morris Affair:
    https://genius.com/Stevie-wonder-and-charlene-used-to-be-lyrics

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  42. Editor’s note: The truth is that Robert Morris confessed. If he has a paraphilia like an interest in pubescent girls, then it is possible that Cindy was not his only victim. The truth is he tried to get her to sign an NDA. It is possible that he did get others to sign it. The truths that Cindy is brave. The truth is that the truth s upsetting to you. Jesus is the Truth and He is afoot, helpingtruth to come out.

    Joe,

    We’ll never know if there are other victims because the sharks smell blood in the water. There is money to be made in the eyes of the sharks. Truth be damned.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  43. Headless Unicorn Guy: Criswell Predicts…
    Only the parts of Reformed Theology that are to their personal advantage and personal benefit.

    i.e. Hal Lindsay Rapture Ready, Any Minute Now, It’s All Gonna Burn, Have Fun in Hell, HAW! HAW! HAW!

    More Calvinist-than-Calvin Predestination plus Hal Lindsay End Time Prophecy strikes me as one of the WORST possible combinations.

    Agreed. That is why these neo-Cals are so insufferable. Exhibit A of this hideous chimera is John MacArthur (he is Calvinist in his soteriology) but is a dispensationalist who holds a memorial view of the Lord’s Supper. At least if you are a Presbyterian or Dutch (aka Continental) Reformed you are consistent within your theological grid even though many people will disagree with it.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  44. I hate that Life Outreach International claims to be a “church” and thus not subject to IRS Form 990 filing. It claims to be an “association of churches.” Where do they worship? What is their church structure? How much do James and Betty siphon off for salaries and expense reimbursements?

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  45. And another thing about always pulling out the David card to defend these bad-boys … when Nathan confronted David about his sin with Bathsheba, he warned him “What you’ve done in secret, God will expose to all of Israel” (2 Samuel 12:12).

    I dare say that all of Christendom, worldwide, has been exposed to this news. To whom much is given, much is required. Multiple thousands have been impacted by this … would not have happened if the Shady Grove elders had done the right thing.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  46. Max:
    And another thing about always pulling out the David card to defend these bad-boys … when Nathan confronted David about his sin with Bathsheba, he warned him “What you’ve done in secret, God will expose to all of Israel” (2 Samuel 12:12).

    I dare say that all of Christendom, worldwide, has been exposed to this news.To whom much is given, much is required.Multiple thousands have been impacted by this … would not have happened if the Shady Grove elders had done the right thing.

    I suppose if Morris and his mind-numbed followers want to carry the David analogy further, one can always have Morris hiding, shivering, and starving in caves and on the lam as everybody in the country wants him dead. Followed by having his son James take throne of Gateway and put a bounty on dad’s head (along with taking over the $117 million Morris fortune). Of course if that happens, then I suppose the David analogy would work.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  47. Church girl: be

    We were there 18 years. We volunteered 17.5 years. We left 4 years ago and started considering leaving long before that. We saw a mass exodus of long time pastors and members. We believe the pastors and members that departed could see right through RM. Although it has been painful for some, it is a really good thing. I would hope the congregation will not tolerate another Morris in the pulpit. God bless Cindy and Dee.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  48. Donna: We believe the pastors and members that departed could see right through RM.

    It’s harder to do when you’re on the inside, so it takes awhile to put the signs together. But viewed from the outside, Mr. Morris had all the characteristics many in the Wartburg community have experienced in other church leaders. Arrogance being at top of the list. It was just a matter of time before ‘something’ brought him down.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  49. Max,

    Max,
    There are no safe places anymore, and children need to be fore-armed in terms of adult predators. I’ve been teaching such a long time (42 years), and I just saw another article in the paper about a principal being disciplined because she failed to report a staff member for child abuse (he is now in prison). Private schools have the same issues (Christian and secular). So, pray for and educate your grandchildren that if something seems “off” they need to get away and go to a trusted adult.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  50. Le Ellis:
    According to Life Outreach International, the statement concerning all of this states: “In the late 80s, Robert Morris joined James Robison Evangelistic Association (JREA) as the morning supervisor in the call center. His role included overseeing the daily administrative tasks of the call center. During his employment at JREA, Robert Morris’ duties did not include public speaking, nor was James Robison involved in professional counseling or formal restoration to ministry for Robert Morris. Before the recent media coverage, James Robison was not aware of the specific details surrounding Robert Morris’ departure from full-time vocational ministry at Shady Grove Church…” But according to this video, James Robison admits that he met Robert when Robert was 8, then 18 with Debbie and hired him at age 20 and he was like a son and Robert began traveling with James and speaking to high schools, etc… Hmm. At best, this statement is misleading. There is an interview online of a pastor from a church in Sherman, TX who was at Shady Grove Church when Robert was there. He states that James Robison brought Robert to Shady Grove Church for counseling for this ‘moral failure.’ So I think James Robison has some questions he needs to answer.

    James Robison (sad because I always saw him as a Father figure) has been called out a couple of years ago just like Robert Morris was too by Madyson Marquette and now it’s coming out. I’ve always believed in Madyson and still do. She speaks truth…and truth is coming out. There WILL be more. God will not be mocked!

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  51. Church girl:
    Gateway just sent a long, gushy, vague, polished email to all congregants.
    What are your guys thoughts?

    Although I had unsubscribed 4 years ago, I started randomly getting them again. I think it is on the GW FB page as well. In the yahoo article, an elder said it was one the most difficult decisions he had ever made. This is highly disturbing that the elders didn’t fire him immediately and allowed him to resign. What is so hard about firing someone who has committed such a crime?

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  52. Donna: Although I had unsubscribed 4 years ago, I started randomly getting them again. I think it is on the GW FB page as well. In the yahoo article, an elder said it was one the most difficult decisions he had ever made. (Accepting his resignation)This is highly disturbing that the elders didn’t fire him immediately and allowed him to resign. What is so hardabout firing someone who has committed such a crime?

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  53. Donna: highly disturbing that the elders didn’t fire him immediately and allowed him to resign

    Yes, that only added to the great offense worked on the Body of Christ which began with the failure of the Shady Grove elders to permanently disqualify him from ministry rather than restoring him. The whole thing was handled wrong from beginning to end by church leaders.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  54. Have any of you guys been keeping count? This post is the 8th consecutive post about Robert Morris!!!
    Isn’t that a record for TWW?

    I just want to say thank you to all of you new commenters who have come forward to contribute what you know as far as the facts about Morris, Gateway and the satellites, and Cindy’s story.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  55. Max,

    Either those people haven’t read much more beyond a children’s Bible story book, or they have conveniently forgotten all of the problems with several of David’s children. (I suspect the first half of my sentence is probably correct.).
    David suffered for what he did.
    The first son of David and Bathsheba died when he was 7 days old, then there was Amnon, Tamar, Absolom, Amnon, Solomon and Adonijah ….

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  56. nmgirl: To those who keep bringing up King David, you do realize he was not a Christian, right?

    I once heard someone ask “Was Jesus a Christian?” after hearing in Sunday School that he was a Jew. 🙂

    What I’ve been wondering lately about these scandal-ridden mega-church celebrities and the yes-men surrounding them … “Are they Christians?”

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  57. Nmgirl: Aren’t Christians expected to be better than other people?

    “Therefore if anyone is in Christ [that is, grafted in, joined to Him by faith in Him as Savior], he is a new creature [reborn and renewed by the Holy Spirit]; the old things [the previous moral and spiritual condition] have passed away. Behold, new things have come [because spiritual awakening brings a new life].” (1 Corinthians 5:17 AMP)

    At least, that’s the way Christianity is supposed to work.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  58. Nicole Ishee,

    As a fellow (now I’d say former) Gateway member, I am absolutely astonished at the systematic lack of transparency and accountability that Robert Morris set up in this church for this to ever happen! I am so sorry for the children you work with there at Frisco, their families, and you and your mother for what you’ve endured while trying to simply protect children. Thank you for standing firm and doing what you know is right. I support you and appreciate you, as do many others – and most importantly, Jesus does.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  59. My husband and I have been really struggling this past week whether or not to continue at Gateway. We absolutely love our home group – they’re our local family, as we have no other family near us.
    However, as we continue to observe the MASSIVE leadership failures by our church Elders, we’ve now come to the realization that unless there is a complete changeover of the Elders at GW, we cannot stay.
    Specifically, our top reasons for our departure are:
    1. LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY-
    A. What happened in 2005 when Cindy reached out to Robert and former pastor Tom Lane responded? There is question whether Tom was informed at that time that it began when she was only 12 years old. She claims she made this clear, and why wouldn’t she, as isn’t that what makes it “child abuse” vs. an “illicit affair” between two consenting adults? It’s a critical part of the story. There would be no reason for contacting him otherwise. While I know Tom Lane is no longer at GW, the IT dept could pull email records to confirm or refute his claim of lack of knowledge at that time.
    B. Robert and his attorney denying paying her mental health expenses, and requesting she sign an NDA. Where’s the repentance and accountability to his victim? An NDA? Really? The pastor of the the country’s largest church should have no need for an NDA because he should be above reproach and transparent about his past failures.
    C. The system Robert Morris has constructed for this church lacks any and all transparency or accountability and these or similar problems will continue without a full administrative processes overhaul.

    2. OUTRIGHT LYING BY OMISSION- The support for Robert in the initial statement released 6/14 to the press from GW that claimed an “inappropriate relationship with a young lady”, not even acknowledging it was child abuse, despite the fact that this very website (TWW) posted Cindy’s full story with those details earlier that day. They had full disclosure already and cannot claim they weren’t privy to that information.

    3. LACK OF SHEPHERDING – As tithing members, we should have been communicated with directly by the Elders prior to, or at the very least, along with the press release(s) that went out. Not only did we not receive any communication from them until a full 7 days after this story broke, and after 2 separate press releases were made, but the Elders of the church even let The King’s University (affiliated school) sent out a statement to their donors and stakeholders first! Clearly their priority was keeping the funding stream coming in, rather than shepherding their congregation. This is the most insulting and aggregious display of their paltry leadership, as it has affected thousands of people.

    I could go on, but those reasons are enough. The current Gateway Church Elders need to all resign if this church has any hope of surviving.

    We’ll remain committed to our home group friends, but cannot be part of Gateway Church any longer.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  60. Max: At least, that’s the way Christianity is supposed to work.

    Sorry to have to say it out loud but it is a time for stoic honesty.
    Christianity does not work that way, at least not in the cases at hand.
    The victims and assailants in these cases walked in faith and prayed for supernatural help.
    Perhaps the victims here rewarded for their faith, in the longer term.
    But so were the perps.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  61. TXbluebonnet:

    B.Robert and his attorney denying paying her mental health expenses, and requesting she sign an NDA.Where’s the repentance and accountability to his victim?An NDA?Really?The pastor of the the country’s largest church should have no need for an NDA because he should be above reproach and transparent about his past failures.

    NDAs are gateway’s MO for keeping the gears rolling

    When they lay-offed a large percentage of their staff in 2017 they made all those now former employees sign NDAs in order to receive severance.

    They use NDAs to silence anyone who could potentially damage their reputation.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  62. TXbluebonnet,

    Besides the primary victim there are so so many others being affected by this betrayal – this crime and all the sins surrounding it. I have been praying for you all and for your spiritual protection during this time of lament and transition. May God give direction and courage to stay loyal to truth and righteousness to all who are faced with similar decisions in the face of this disclosure (and probably many others to follow across the nation). I’ve also been praying for all of us who are being triggered by this because of their own victimization histories. God is close to the brokenhearted. Praying His blessings and guidance.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  63. TXbluebonnet: My husband and I have been really struggling this past week whether or not to continue at Gateway. We absolutely love our home group – they’re our local family, as we have no other family near us.

    Sounds to me like you’ve been having home church. I see no problem continuing in that fellowship with a family of other believers. You don’t need to attend or be active in Gateway right now. Unless the small group leaders are being controlled by the mothership or the discussion is too focused on Morris rather than Christ, studying God’s Word and prayer in home churches was the way Christianity started.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  64. Sharmin,

    I too have followed Madyson and have no reason not to believe her. I hope she gets in touch with Dee and tells her story. It is sad because she feels she wasn’t believed because she had been in the porn industry. But she was sold to a pastor that she believed would help her get freedom from the industry only to be trafficked for years to pastors and entertainment celebrities. I hope someone will listen to her story and help bring these evil men to justice.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  65. Max,

    The home group is part of Gateway, so they ARE being controlled by it.

    I used to be a member of Fellowship and know how that system works.

    Unless the entire group – or a large part of them – decides to leave Gateway, it will be used to keep her in line – or punish her if she continues to “speak against leadership”.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  66. Mark R: The home group is part of Gateway, so they ARE being controlled by it.

    I used to be a member of Fellowship and know how that system works.

    Unless the entire group – or a large part of them – decides to leave Gateway, it will be used to keep her in line – or punish her if she continues to “speak against leadership”.

    Sounds like the “Lifegroup” system used by the New Calvinists. Members are encouraged to participate in small groups with leaders loyal to pastor/elders. They are essentially spies to keep an eye out for dissenters. Members who question the belief and practice of the church, leadership teachings, or issues such as the matter at hand end up being disciplined, shunned and/or excommunicated. If Gateway is set up this way, then I would not advise “TXbluebonnet” to hang out there.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  67. TXbluebonnet,

    I would be EXTREMELY careful about how you act and what you say around the group.

    These groups (like Max mentioned above) are tightly controlled by leadership. What he says they do; they did it to me personally.

    At best, I advise you take the advice of Mike Rutherford (Mike + The Mechanics) from his song “Silent Running”: “pledge allegiance to the flag, whatever flag they offer, never show them how you really feel”. At worst, you probably will have to cut ties with the group (and if they find out you posted on TWW, they will cut ties with you first).

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  68. Mark R: It took me a while to learn this, but that’s exactly what happened to me.

    In far too many elder-ruled churches, small group leaders are elders-in-training … it is an opportunity for them to prove themselves to be loyal to Pastor and the Board of Elders … the small group experience conditions them to be yes-men when they are tapped to join the Inner Ring.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  69. Max: In far too many elder-ruled churches, small group leaders are elders-in-training … it is an opportunity for them to prove themselves to be loyal to Pastor and the Board of Elders …

    The Outer Party apparatchiki trying to climb into the Inner Party/Inner Ring.
    And only when you are utterly broken to The System will you be permitted to advance within The System.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  70. Max: Sounds like the “Lifegroup” system used by the New Calvinists. Members are encouraged to participate in small groups with leaders loyal to pastor/elders. They are essentially spies to keep an eye out for dissenters.

    Party Cells with an NKVD/KGB Informer as the Party Commissar/Cell Leader.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  71. Mark R: At best, I advise you take the advice of Mike Rutherford (Mike + The Mechanics) from his song “Silent Running”: “pledge allegiance to the flag, whatever flag they offer, never show them how you really feel”.

    Here’s the best video mashup of that song I have ever come across; the visuals match up with the subject better than the official music video:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-KFhT9O6-A

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  72. I’m very concerned about the safety of his granddaughters. I saw a photo of him holding his 12 year old granddaughter on his lap. Since he is attracted to little girls and he has several little granddaughters. I experienced this in my family with a powerful church going wealthy grandfather who saw nothing wrong because he gave a lot of money to church and orphan homes. His wife knew but didn’t want to give up her wealthy lifestyle. Nothing was done because of money. This was in Tulsa, Ok. My experience makes me VERY worried about his little granddaughters.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  73. The Notes application also reveals that between 2010 and 2014 he spent a total of 256 days in one of these apartments and sought rent reimbursement from RZIM for those stays.

    Never mind One Night in Bangkok, that’s 255 Nights in Bangkok, THE Number-One Sex Tourism destination on Earth!

    (And the Thai can’t be happy about that reputation…)

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

  74. Merrell Davis: I experienced this in my family with a powerful church going wealthy grandfather who saw nothing wrong because he gave a lot of money to church and orphan homes.

    i.e. He Paid Good Money for those Indulgences!

    His wife knew but didn’t want to give up her wealthy lifestyle.

    Again, just like Camille Cosby, Dotty Sandusky, and Beale Phillips ESQUIRE.

    This was in Tulsa, OK.

    Oral Roberts’ home town and buckle on the Bible Belt.

      (Reply & quote selected text)  (Reply to this comment)

Leave a comment - Click here for our commenting rules

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *